Recent Posts

Is BWPS better than the SMiLE Sessions? No, at least in my opinion, but it does not "delegitimate" BWPS. What I really don't like is the relentless attempt to delegitimate BWPS, which often has morphed into the attempt to delegitimate SMiLE as a fatally flawed project right from the start.

I am legitimately curious has there been a legitimate fan-made attempt to graft the missing vocal parts from BWPS onto the 1967 tracks? I know it's technically "Cheating since it's not the "Beach Boys" but it would be a fascinating compromise.

Isnt that what Purple Chick does? It's been a long time. Then bruiteur put vintage vocals on BWPS' instrumentation for SU.

I know BWPS has some instrumentals on Side 4 of the vinyl, right? But were a capella masters ever made available to the public? I dont think so.

Im gonna guess...no. And in the AI age, if we're comfortable using digital trickery to cheat, I vote we recreate 60s vocals instead, frankly.

No I mean use the instrumental tracks and existing vocals from TSS and overlay the missing vocal parts from BWPS onto them? In other words "Finished" versions of DYLW, Look, CIFOTM, I wanna Be around, Holidays and Dada/Blue Hawaii.

Im bumping this to ask if there's been any progress. I did see one site with public access to sheet music but it's incomplete and, I believe, based on BWPS. That 2004 album has a sheet music release but it's not something I want to pay for as it's the later album and therefore lacking fades (plus it may've been tweaked from vintage arrangements).

I'd pay TOP DOLLAR for a complete sheet music project that was as vintage as possible, but including things we can't hear on tape (like the clarinet part in look, which was rediscovered and recreated for BWPS) and including even the goofiest of session "outtakes." IE, tell me what notes the laughing trumpets are playing in Talking Horns, tell me what pitch that wailing section is in.

There have been what I consider 2 eras in the span of SMiLE fanmixing: the bootleg era and the boxset era. With AI allowing for recreation of lost voices, and something like a publicly accessible score of SMiLE to feed into it (or other digital arrangement tools) we could be on the verge of a whole new era. This could allow for completely faithful recreations of what Brian was (probably) trying to do, as well as fun goofball stuff like "SMiLE in the style of Love You / SMiLE where Hendrix-esque distorted guitars play the Bicycle Rider theme with Joseph Byrd-esque electric violin overdubs, sung in Syd Barrett's voice."

This might sound silly or even blasphemous, but I think something like "Love to Say Dada, but water sounds replace the piano and the vocals sound like they're underwater" is actually closer to his original vision in '66 when he sent Vosse out to gather audio verite recordings--he just gave up on it because it was too much work. (Imagine how tedious it'd be to cut and splice analog tape to sequence EVERY SINGLE NOTE in a song! No wonder he said "f*** it, just use the piano!") Man...I could absolutely drive myself insane with the possibilities. Literally, every single day you'd walk in on me making a new SMiLE as soon as I finished the old one. It'd be my shortenin' bread...

Is BWPS better than the SMiLE Sessions? No, at least in my opinion, but it does not "delegitimate" BWPS. What I really don't like is the relentless attempt to delegitimate BWPS, which often has morphed into the attempt to delegitimate SMiLE as a fatally flawed project right from the start.

I am legitimately curious has there been a legitimate fan-made attempt to graft the missing vocal parts from BWPS onto the 1967 tracks? I know it's technically "Cheating since it's not the "Beach Boys" but it would be a fascinating compromise.

Isnt that what Purple Chick does? It's been a long time. Then bruiteur put vintage vocals on BWPS' instrumentation for SU.

I know BWPS has some instrumentals on Side 4 of the vinyl, right? But were a capella masters ever made available to the public? I dont think so.

Im gonna guess...no. And in the AI age, if we're comfortable using digital trickery to cheat, I vote we recreate 60s vocals instead, frankly.

Is BWPS better than the SMiLE Sessions? No, at least in my opinion, but it does not "delegitimate" BWPS. What I really don't like is the relentless attempt to delegitimate BWPS, which often has morphed into the attempt to delegitimate SMiLE as a fatally flawed project right from the start.

I am legitimately curious has there been a legitimate fan-made attempt to graft the missing vocal parts from BWPS onto the 1967 tracks? I know it's technically "Cheating since it's not the "Beach Boys" but it would be a fascinating compromise.

I think it's interesting that he got the bulk of work done on most of the songs I consider to be classed together as an unofficial "innocence suite / presumptive Side 2" almost right out the gate--Wind Chimes, Holidays,Look, Wonderful and Child are among the very first. Add GV and you've got everything a plausible side of post-Today ballads needs, with only the notable exception of Surf's Up, which wouldn't happen until Nov. Even if anyone opposes the idea these would've all been put on the same side, can we not agree they share a very distinct "sound texture" not found in a lot of the SMiLE tracks missing from this group? It's like these songs are very connected somehow, almost like they represent Brian working out his "child angst" one last time before more completely delving into the American Gothic trip vibe. (There's that one Heroes session out in no man's land May, then CE peeks in at the end of the window I'm describing, then Veggies, Worms and finally Heroes again before the Boys leave for Europe.)

The sessions start falling apart as work moves to Heroes, Surf (ironically the first two that were written), the various comedy bits (I never noticed before but AGD lists "Smile Party" on the 18th of October and Life Raft on the 25th--I always thought those were two names for the same tape??) and the Boys leave for Europe. 

All good points, BJL. I was just speculating but you're probably right

Quick, what were you working on in October and November of 2005?

I was in High School. I could maybe, if I spent a ton of time thinking it through, come up with what classes and activities I was in and who my main friends were. But what was I thinking? What assignments preoccupied me? What were we working on in those classes? What was the AP Euro midterm essay on? What were my friends and I talking about? Forget it. The only way to get detailed, new recollections out of someone, beyond the mythologized stories that *everyone* tells about their own life, and uses as a shorthand to describe to others and to themselves what they were like in college, or how their first job went, or whatever it is, would require confronting Parks with evidence. Not: what do you remember about Smile? But, let's listen to acetates of Child is the Father of the Man and see what it brings up. But even then, you're guaranteed to be distorting the stories you get based on how you ask the questions or what material you present, and a lot of things just might not be remembered. Brian and Darian did some of that in 2004: they confronted Van Dyke Parks with the material they had, to see what he remembered, and it sounds like he did remember some things. But other than that, there's not really any way to get these kinds of memories out of someone unless they really, really trust you and they are personally motivated to explore that part of their life. And Van Dyke Parks seems to have complicated feelings about all this, which makes total sense, and not all that much desire to make Smile even more central to his legacy as an artist than it already is.

I get it. I could tell you some of my classes, friends, overriding predilections, but not details. It's not totally Van's fault, he should've been asked about this or (in the interests of history) offered his perspective a lot sooner than the mid-late seventies or whenever he did his first interview. Memories are imperfect as-is and absolutely fade over time. I look at some of my old diaries and stuff from high school and I'm like "oh wow, I forgot that happened!" That said, I remember "big things" like breakups, emotionally charged conversations, when I got/left a job, WHY I left a job. One would think that for VDP, as a relative nobody in the bizz, to tell arguably the biggest man in the industry (Van has described Brian in words to this effect himself) and a potential ticket to future references/success, "I can't do this anymore, I have to leave this madhouse" that'd be a memorable moment. Unless things just kinda fizzled out, but even that would be memorable in its disappointment ("I wanted to keep working on it, but he stopped taking my calls!")

I absolutely agree that if you want more than vague platitudes or disconnected anecdotes it helps to present evidence. One of many reasons I think reporters and documentarians through the years have dropped the ball. I mean, maybe there's hours of outtakes for Beautiful Dreamer where David Leaf had access to the tapes and played them to the principals to job their memory, or read them the most provocative excerpts from previous books, but I doubt it. If TSS had been released twenty years earlier I think we'd have so much more info than we do. All the same though, I find it hard to believe VDP couldn't tell us about more songs than just Heroes and Surf--the music was out there even when Don Was asked him in the 90s if he really needed a refresher. I think Van just resents the project and Brian to some extent and doesn't like talking about it--like Alec Guiness in Star Wars--he thinks it's somewhat beneath him.

Which track is this in on disc 2? I'm sure I remember it but I can't find it!

I believe its track 26, H&V part 4, about 1:10 in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fszNcysYdYM&list=PL4jIq7wqF8Qe9-mMfvmSCloXvhSw1l67S&index=26 It's not a "final draft" of the idea by any means, not said with the same dramatic flourish as YUA like in the Cantina edit. It's just Brian/Carl or one of the other guys saying it between takes, with an obvious put-on tough-guy drawl, but in a whisper. It sounds like he's rehearsing where it's gonna go. This would've been for Side 2 of the single I believe, and further credits the theory I saw on the forum back in the day that side1 would be the Hero while side2 would be the Villain.

How about this for Americana, w/ no regard to LP limitations:

(Prayer) Worms / Heroes (IIGS verse tape explosion ending) / OMP (no fade) / Fire / IWBA-WS-Barnyard / Veggies / Wonderful (Barnshine fade w/ He Gives Speeches lyrics) / Cabin Essence

I can't remember which thread you were talking about this at greater length, but the idea that Heroes belongs before Worms I feel like was just so deep in my mind from so many years of seeing mixes organized that way... But now after reading your other comment and this, I think Worms makes just as much if not more sense as an opener! I also love this whole sequence of yours, which I feel like has such an odd intuitive logic to it.

Thank you!

I credit Sheriff John Stone, one of my favorite posters from back in the day (though he later changed his mind and started advocating for Heroes as the opener again!). He gave me the idea that Worms was originally first. Learning that Brian apparently never expected to use singles off the album until the BRI shenanigans demanded it solidified this view.

This post is such a great statement of the fact that the themes of this album are rich and complex and intertwined across all the songs, and that the reduction of those songs into an "America" half and a "coming of age" half (with some kind of Elements Suite that's outside of those themes and maybe includes Wind Chimes and Vegetables) really does not reflect what the songs themselves are doing at all.

I agree the songs are very interconnected and that's why Brian couldn't decide on a final order. There's more going on than just "that's one of the elements!" and trying to shoehorn things into that template does them a great disservice. I think it was Joshilyn who said something like "can't we just appreciate this song on its own terms, as a beautiful composition, without needing it to be part of some grandiose element suite?"

I used to think Brian's plan was more tangible, just never directly attested to, but still rediscoverable with pieces of evidence and intuition. I now no longer think that was the case per se but things still had a way of falling into place as it were. I think it's significant VDP never --NEVER-- talks about the elements or what song/feel is earth/air. But he does, pre and post BWPS, without any direct goading or retroactive justification, talk about SMiLE as "Americans talking about America" and "innocence...perhaps the innocence America had lost" and "Brian still had anxiety about growing up, longing for his childhood in his muse at this time" in interviews I've seen. (And chronicled, as you know.) It's pretty obvious those were the two most overriding themes running through the album. I don't think they were purposefully thinking in terms of "oh, this'll go on Side 1" and "ok, this will be part of the 'Cycle of Life' movement" but these two vintage groupings are what naturally came from their output.

I absolutely swear to God, I didn't plan things this way, I just looked at the tracks and thought of all the ways they might be interrelated at first glance (and not being versed on things like what keys they're written in, what time signature, what chords they use--someone could please fill me in) but those "sides" still permeate this exercise. With the exception of the "round 3 pairings" all of them roughly separate the tracks according to the basic templates of the Americana/Innocence sides I like to use. (Whether you believe me or not, it wasn't intentional.) So, while I acknowledge there are other valid ways to do it--Im not gonna accuse different sequence philosophies of ignoring some obvious design of Brian's--to me this is just the framework where the music intuitively fits best. I swear, I've tried to move on from it and do like a one-suite ("everything is part of H&V") as well as four-suite (manifest destiny, pastoral lifestyle, elemental cycle, coming of age--jumbled around in non-traditional pairings on the sides) but I'm just never as satisfied with the results. Just my opinion though.