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642779 Posts in 25664 Topics by 3648 Members - Latest Member: solarpanel January 17, 2019, 09:48:23 AM
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 91 
 on: January 13, 2019, 11:41:56 AM 
Started by Wata - Last post by rab2591
Honestly, I think marketing the early years only(or primarily) is selling the group short. They are so much more than the surfing, fun in the sun image. I'd like to see a commercial or online promotional item with a picture of their long hair, bearded hippy phase.  Grin Seriously though, there is so much more to this band, that the endless  surfing and hot rod shtick is almost an insult. Did any of that make sense? It sounds so logical and clear in my head, but I feel like I didn't say it right.  LOL

Oh yeah, couldn't agree more (and have said so a lot in previous threads regarding this stuff), but from a marketing standpoint your average Joe American knows this band as America's Surfin Safari band, so it makes sense to me to market a career spanning boxset the way they marketed the GV Boxset.

I am certain that whatever we get for the Sunflower/Surf's Up sets we will see some hippie looking Beach Boys as part of the promotion (if there is any). Cool Guy

The fact it had surfing imagery, and included a surfboard commemorative sticker (which my set didn't have), and included "Kokomo" I don't think added to its success or appeal. It was the fact you could get 5 discs worth of the band's music with outtakes AND the Smile material in one set, and it was nicely balanced. The fact that it looked like a surfboard only added to what I'm sure some newer or younger fans who bought it experienced in the way of scratching their head and asking is this the same band...after seeing what the "Beach Boys" were doing as of the early 90's versus hearing the Smile material and other examples of what they had done before the dancing "Kokomo Girls" took the stage and Summer In Paradise was the most current album in the stores.

[Keeping in mind this conversation has been about my view of why Made In California's school yearbook cover probably wasn't the best approach to marketing the set] I just think the tasteful surfboard imagery of the GV set cover is more appealing to your casual Beach Boys listener in the store/online more than the flat orange cover of Made in California...I'm not talking about Kokomo's inclusion or any goodies inside the GV box, just the visual appeal of the outside. From a marketing standpoint it just makes sense to me to market the image of the band that your average American thinks of when they think of Beach Boys...especially when its a box set whose target audience is everyone.

 92 
 on: January 13, 2019, 11:32:08 AM 
Started by Wata - Last post by c-man

Rolling Stone magazine - In an issue featuring Snoop and Dre on the cover if I recall - reviewed and rated the GV set 5 stars...


I think it was Beavis and Butthead.  Same difference?  Smiley


 93 
 on: January 13, 2019, 10:58:16 AM 
Started by Wata - Last post by ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
Honestly, I think marketing the early years only(or primarily) is selling the group short. They are so much more than the surfing, fun in the sun image. I'd like to see a commercial or online promotional item with a picture of their long hair, bearded hippy phase.  Grin Seriously though, there is so much more to this band, that the endless  surfing and hot rod shtick is almost an insult. Did any of that make sense? It sounds so logical and clear in my head, but I feel like I didn't say it right.  LOL


I feel the exact same way

 94 
 on: January 13, 2019, 10:52:58 AM 
Started by Reynaldo - Last post by William Bowe
Quote
Sold. I'll buy your book and read it. But are ther any plans to make a Kindle edition? I live abroad and would prefer a version I could read on my Ebook, but if not I'll order the paperback.
This. I'm really intrigued by this book, warts and all, and I'd buy it on Kindle in a heartbeat. Living as I do in Australia though, I can't justify to myself the expense imposed by international shipping and our weak dollar.

 95 
 on: January 13, 2019, 10:49:03 AM 
Started by Reynaldo - Last post by guitarfool2002
Ron, I really respect that you've come on here consistently to plug/defend this book. And looking over this thread I think you've come out the bigger person on a multitude of occasions when responding to people who have hurled insults at you. I also think it's commendable that you admit:

Quote
To the others on the site, thank you for your thoughtful and insightful comments. I learned a lot from many of you - get some better fact checkers for one thing. Ha. I maintain that Rocky got to see this great band from the inside, behind the curtain, if you will,  during a really interesting time in the bands history. 

It takes a lot of work to write a book, and I can't imagine the time and dedication it takes. Especially 28 chapters of dedication. With that said, I hope I can help you understand why there is so much angst towards you in this thread. Here is a quote from the excerpt you posted earlier in the thread:

Quote
In 1967, Mike’s discomfort with Brian’s new musical direction caused things to get more than a little heated. As portrayed in the film Love and Mercy, they had an ugly scene, and it brought things to a head. Brian had reached his breaking point; his mental and physical reserves were stretched so thin, he was done.

At that point, Brian effectively quit the band and withdrew into a cocoon of drugs and disenchantment. He vowed he would never write songs again for the Beach Boys, and he opted to slip into oblivion. He just couldn’t take it anymore. He checked out. Why, he asked himself, should he continue shouldering the awesome responsibility that comes with writing the songs, doing the arrangements, teaching the others their parts, both vocally and instrumentally, slaving away in the studio, all the while dealing with a changing audience that was seemingly turning on him and his music?

You are asking people to dedicate their money, and more importantly their time, to reading this book. And excerpts you provide go against much of the truth that many posters here have spent a lot of time fighting for in recent years. There are many in the Beach Boys world that have dedicated a lot of time perpetuating rumors that put Brian in a bad light....whether it is pushback from the amount of Mike Love hatred, I don't know. It doesn't help that Mike Love himself used this same type of misinformation in a lawsuit just over a decade ago for an attempt at a quick buck. So, especially in recent years, many posters here have pushed back against this false idea that Brian is a vegetable, Brian is controlled, Brian effectively quit the band after Smile, Brian did nothing but take drugs and lay in bed after 1967, Carl produced Wild Honey, Mike pulled the band together. The amount of rumors goes on and on, and though I don't at all think people need to berate you, I also think that their anger stems from years of seeing these rumors go unchecked. So when you show up and the chapter you provide has at least one of these rumors, it isn't outside the realm of possibility that people here would get irritated about it.

I also invite you to read Rocky's post history on this forum:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?action=profile;u=9448;sa=showPosts

Between those posts and what we have seen of the book in its current form regarding Stan, Rocky, Mike, etc, it also leaves a lot of questions relating to why there was an almost 180º turnaround in several opinions about certain people - and yeah, you can say that the publisher, you, and Rocky agreed that the book should be more about the love of the Beach Boys (leaving the tabloid stuff out), yet according to those who have read the book there is still some unflattering perspectives regarding some members (Carl and Dennis) while Mike seems to go unscathed. And in your defense you say that this is due to the time period the book is about. Yet the above quote from the book shows an unflattering and untrue look at Brian Wilson mid-60s and beyond which follows the same tabloid style you claim you were trying to avoid. And I will admit, those rumors were so pervasive that many people believed them without question, so I'm not saying it was intentional on your part. But even unintentional it doesn't make the false perspective correct. You and Rocky may not have even seen this sentence "In 1967...Brian effectively quit the band and withdrew into a cocoon of drugs and disenchantment" as unflattering and untrue, but it is untrue and thus unflattering to Brian. And I think you're asking a lot of people here to buy/support this book when it carries on this myth...again, a myth that Mike Love tried to use as leverage in a lawsuit against Brian not that long ago.

So from many angles (be it Rocky's posts from years back, the 180º turnaround the book takes from some of those posts - and the possible confusion that that makes for us potential readers, the misrepresented look at Brian's late-60s life) this book and anyone defending it was bound (no pun intended) to get some flak.

And while you may not appreciate mtaber's amazon review, he's been one of the few people trying to keep insults being hurled at you in this thread:

I don't see any point in being nasty to Ron.  He wrote a book with Rocky, they got it published, and we (as a group) generally are in agreement that we don't think it's a very good book, from what we've read. I respect Ron's right to write a book, he should respect our right to have a negative view of the book.  

I hope most of the above post helps you understand the backlash you have been enduring. Again, respect to you for coming here and dealing with the backlash in the manner you have. Thanks for being open to at least some of the responses that have civilly pointed out some mistakes in the book.

Happy 2019 to you too!


A lot of this post sums up my feelings as well. Anything further I'd just be repeating myself, even though a few key points got lost when another forum folded.

I just want to say, speaking for myself, I hope Ron continues to post here and dialogue with those who want to talk. I'm not a fan of the personal insults, but I like to hear what someone has to say up to or until it crosses any lines. That brings me to my next point:

Ron, when you were writing the book with Rocky, did you read through Rocky's posts and comments made on this board in 2015-16?

I have the feeling that perhaps Ron did not know the minefield he would be walking through when he signed on, and not even with Rocky's previous experiences interacting with people here or the perception of him, but with the Beach Boys universe in general. And, specifically, how an atmosphere exists and was substantially ramped up after Fall 2012 to where certain inconvenient facts and details are either whitewashed, reshaped, or dismissed entirely, and some people who have more details to make these points even more inconvenient are targeted and attacked in the hopes they are discredited or their words dismissed outright, no matter if they're factual or not.

Witness everything that went down when Rocky first appeared, things that happened with Steve Love's comments too, and what has happened with these recent discussions that involve Rocky.

In Ron's defense, I wonder if he had any idea of the tangled web of whitewashing, distorting, and dishonest historians that bubbles under the BB's fan universe.

 96 
 on: January 13, 2019, 10:37:44 AM 
Started by Wata - Last post by guitarfool2002
Oh, I agree that it is not indicative of their total output, not by a long shot,  but I personally don't think it is the kind of thing that affects sales, and the fact is, they are known for the songs about teenage culture + Pet Sounds, so I get it. It really is safest to play up that aspect and let people discover the other sides of the band at this point. If it was 1971, of course, I'd say they should play up the other sides more. But my experience preaching the Beach Boys gospels is that most people really don't care about the other sides of the band. It's like, their minds are already made up.

That's why I think their GV Boxset look is the better route to take. Where the Beach Boys are known for surfing, and not really known as a school-related-activities band, I just think it makes more sense to market the former rather than the latter. I think CabinessenceKing said it best about MiC:

Quote
The set has a low aestethical appeal. That bland, bright orange cover. There is no contrast of colours or vividness in the colours used. There is no message in that cover; no Sounds of Summer, no Endless Summer!  That hideous 15 Big Ones logo (aesthetically awful and cheesy) blended into the background and the wave motif didn't work at all.

The GV Boxset was very clear about what it was, and I think it does a good job of drawing people in. So I'm not at all against them using their early years as a marketing tool to increase appeal of a boxset/set. But at least give it some appeal...make it obvious what you're going for at least. You can't even really tell it's a yearbook theme until you open the set up. Again I'll say: I like the set. But put the GV set (surfing) and MiC (yearbook) in front of a casual fan with $100 and I'd bet they would pic the more aesthetically pleasing GV set. Just my opinion.

I think we both agree that marketing the early years of the band is a good route to take though.


The GV box set had something in the way of a killer app that can never be duplicated: Roughly 45 minutes of "Smile" music, which up to that point unless you were buying bootlegs for $25 per disc as a consumer and fan, you had never heard in this quality before.

Rolling Stone magazine - In an issue featuring Snoop and Dre on the cover if I recall - reviewed and rated the GV set 5 stars, and also mentioned how difficult it was after hearing the Smile material on disc 2 to keep listening with the same perspective, if you were going chronologically.

The fact it had surfing imagery, and included a surfboard commemorative sticker (which my set didn't have), and included "Kokomo" I don't think added to its success or appeal. It was the fact you could get 5 discs worth of the band's music with outtakes AND the Smile material in one set, and it was nicely balanced. The fact that it looked like a surfboard only added to what I'm sure some newer or younger fans who bought it experienced in the way of scratching their head and asking is this the same band...after seeing what the "Beach Boys" were doing as of the early 90's versus hearing the Smile material and other examples of what they had done before the dancing "Kokomo Girls" took the stage and Summer In Paradise was the most current album in the stores.

 97 
 on: January 13, 2019, 10:34:09 AM 
Started by ReggieDunbar - Last post by c-man
It would be interesting to know what Dennis and Gregg's arrangement was. It may be that Gregg was part of Dennis's deal and that Gregg would have received a producer credit for any recordings delivered to the label, whether he had a direct hand in the production , or not.
It seems that Dennis took care of Gregg over the years, with regard to co-writing and co-production credits. It might have been that their creative relationship was based on a gentleman's agreement.

I can't identify Jakobson's creative stamp on any of the songs where he is credited as a co-writer or co-producer.




Well, it's reportedly Gregg's voice heard saying "Rollin'" at the start of "Time For Bed". And, per David Leaf's article in Issue 3 of his Pet Sounds fanzine, Gregg was present in a co-producer capacity for the "He's A Bum" vocal session. Looking at the timeline on Bellagio (compiled from my collection of AFM contracts), it's clear that with one exception (that being "I Love You"), all of the Jakobson sessions occurred prior to the start of the Muñoz sessions - and Gregg has stated that he pretty much stopped working with Dennis at a certain point. From this, we can conclude that Dennis invited Carli to co-produce his next album with him AFTER the end of the Jakobson era, and if he did so without mentioning that he also intended to use the stuff he and Gregg had co-produced, then that would explain why Carli would be unaware of Gregg's status as Dennis' co-producer. It's also highly possible that Dennis intended his co-productions with Gregg (however unfinished they may have been at the time) for his SECOND solo album, and intended his collaborations with Carli to be for his THIRD solo album (by this time, he was telling people that he had actually started his third).

Speaking of a "third" Denny solo album, whatever happened to the possible release of an album called Tornado that Jim Guercio was talking about? It was supposed to be a follow up to the reissue of Pacific Ocean Blue and was even mentioned in Mark Dillon's 2012 Beach Boys book (can't remember the name) but nothing has ever been said about it since if I'm correct. While many in the Beach Boys fan community are clamoring for a release of early '70s Denny material, I personally think something that grabbed the rest of the good stuff from 1975 thru 1978, along with whatever is useable from 1979 thru 1982 (maybe "Labor Day" and also some of those supposed collaborations with Christine McVie*).



*Do we actually have any proof Denny and Christine ever did any real serious recording together? I can't imagine it, but as a major fan of both artists it would be amazing to hear.

In the early 80's I produced some sessions at Tom Murphy's TRACK RECORD on Melrose Ave. I remember seeing a box of 2" tape, with Dennis Wilson/Christine McVie written on its spine, on the shelf in the control room. I asked Tom about it. He told me that Dennis and Christine had been recording there.


Wow...did you summon the courage to ask him to play the tape for you?  The answer would probably have been "No", but if it'd been me, I would've asked...even if it meant paying for the studio time to hear it!


 98 
 on: January 13, 2019, 09:43:47 AM 
Started by Wata - Last post by Jay
Honestly, I think marketing the early years only(or primarily) is selling the group short. They are so much more than the surfing, fun in the sun image. I'd like to see a commercial or online promotional item with a picture of their long hair, bearded hippy phase.  Grin Seriously though, there is so much more to this band, that the endless  surfing and hot rod shtick is almost an insult. Did any of that make sense? It sounds so logical and clear in my head, but I feel like I didn't say it right.  LOL

 99 
 on: January 13, 2019, 09:28:39 AM 
Started by Wata - Last post by rab2591
Oh, I agree that it is not indicative of their total output, not by a long shot,  but I personally don't think it is the kind of thing that affects sales, and the fact is, they are known for the songs about teenage culture + Pet Sounds, so I get it. It really is safest to play up that aspect and let people discover the other sides of the band at this point. If it was 1971, of course, I'd say they should play up the other sides more. But my experience preaching the Beach Boys gospels is that most people really don't care about the other sides of the band. It's like, their minds are already made up.

That's why I think their GV Boxset look is the better route to take. Where the Beach Boys are known for surfing, and not really known as a school-related-activities band, I just think it makes more sense to market the former rather than the latter. I think CabinessenceKing said it best about MiC:

Quote
The set has a low aestethical appeal. That bland, bright orange cover. There is no contrast of colours or vividness in the colours used. There is no message in that cover; no Sounds of Summer, no Endless Summer!  That hideous 15 Big Ones logo (aesthetically awful and cheesy) blended into the background and the wave motif didn't work at all.

The GV Boxset was very clear about what it was, and I think it does a good job of drawing people in. So I'm not at all against them using their early years as a marketing tool to increase appeal of a boxset/set. But at least give it some appeal...make it obvious what you're going for at least. You can't even really tell it's a yearbook theme until you open the set up. Again I'll say: I like the set. But put the GV set (surfing) and MiC (yearbook) in front of a casual fan with $100 and I'd bet they would pic the more aesthetically pleasing GV set. Just my opinion.

I think we both agree that marketing the early years of the band is a good route to take though.

 100 
 on: January 13, 2019, 07:59:26 AM 
Started by hypehat - Last post by SBonilla
THE HAWAIIAN STEEL GUITAR and its GREAT HAWAIIAN MUSICIANS, compiled by Lorene Ruymar  with foreword by Jerry Byrd.


For the past week I have been totally absorbed in it. I'm a student and fan of many things, including Western Swing, Hawaiian Music, Jazz, Mexican Music, early blues, country & western, guitars and guitar music. This book offers a history, and a genealogy of sorts, of the musical and technical innovations that come out of Hawaiian music and the steel guitar, along with wonderful stories about the musicians and other individuals who were the inventors, creators and purveyors of this wonderful music and its instruments.

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