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682885 Posts in 27747 Topics by 4096 Members - Latest Member: MrSunshine July 06, 2025, 11:19:54 PM
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 41 
 on: July 04, 2025, 06:01:44 AM 
Started by ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 - Last post by ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
I’ve been coping with Brian’s passing by throwing myself into music, and my band and I are recording covers of some of our favorite Beach Boys songs (our distributor is handling the licensing). Not saying this to shill, but rather bring up how doing this is giving me personally an even greater appreciation for what Brian and the Boys accomplished. We’re releasing Til I Die on the 14th, and I took the Stephen Desper arrangement but using synths (including app versions of the VCS3 and the Jen SX1000)… and it made me realize something. Brian’s music is such that if it had been brand new in any decade following using the current production for the period, they’d still be smashes without changing anything except the instruments/ recording technology. The Beach Boys could’ve been huge as a new pop punk band. If they were a new band now, they’d be the quintessential indie pop rock band sharing the bill with Tame Impala (the amount of covers of All I Wanna Do by younger artists the past few years is a good example).

You know what’s cool? My daughter (recent high school grad) is  Gen Z and I was shocked when I realized that they’re held in high regard , and even stuff my generation and before made fun of (the Kokomo and Full House period) is looked at with a certain charm .  It makes me feel like as the years go by and the more embarrassing stuff drifts further in the past, the legend will only grow.

Maybe…just maybe… the ones who have been long term fans like us are too “close” to be truly objective about the band’s place in history. Many of us would pine for The Beach Boys to be reappraised and held to the same status as the Beatles, especially those of us who got messed with growing up for being BB fans. At some point, it happened without us even realizing it.

I know this… Brian’s up there with Carl and Dennis beaming with satisfaction knowing the legacy is secure.

 42 
 on: July 04, 2025, 05:41:28 AM 
Started by Joel Goldenberg - Last post by Julia
On the forum where they pat themselves on the back daily for their supposed positivity and inclusion, Dae Lims is getting completely shellacked for his work there.

Kinda blows my mind that a lot of people can't see the talent/time it takes to make these tracks - nor see anything remotely positive about it. Or see the imagination behind creating these harmonies, etc.. I mean I don't think that everyone has to like this stuff, and there have been tracks I haven't liked, but it's kinda crazy seeing the dogpile of hate.

People have made Smile mixes for how long now? People have been using Brian Wilson's very own work/voice to create their own fantasy album(s) for how many decades now? I know this is a whole other universe of technology/creativity, but at its heart it is the same thing: a fan trying to create something that never was.

As Guitarfool said above: But if a fan does work like this who clearly knows the music on a level beyond collecting records and being a fan, and can import the precise musical details into the work and be musically and sonically accurate in doing so, it's a work of art unto itself.

Oh they have no problem attacking people for doing "traditional" SMiLE mixes too, dont you worry. I even got flak all the time for writing "SMiLE" instead of "Smile." They're just miserable people.

As for the DAE LIMS mixes, Im very impressed by both the effort and results. I don't know if you take requests, selteab, or even if you're still here, but I'd like to propose a few projects:

1) I'd love to hear the BWPS melody of Worms. While I understand the interest in the one he sings in the booth on the TSS boxset, I personally am not the biggest fan of the results whenever anyone tries to fit it to the track. It just never seems right, and Im not picking on your work, Ive heard other AI recreations and felt the same way. I think there's just something we're missing, something only Brian would've thought of to make it work. I've often wondered if this alt melody wasn't meant to be a background vocal that "echoes" the main melody but starts later in the verse, if that makes sense. That would account for the fact that the 66-melody can't fill the verse by itself.

2) I'd honestly be willing to hire you to recreate the "Reconnected Telephones" vocals in Dennis' voice, the "CIFOTM" reprise vocals for the Surf fade (since I can't find them in isolation), pitch-shifted "Whispering Winds" vocals to fit with the fade of Holidays or even Wind Chimes, and isolated "Pretty Baby Won't You Rock w/ Me, Henry" vocals from the 2nd version of Wonderful to use in the first.

3) Using the Project SMiLE verse lyrics of CIFOTM with the Beach Boys voices.

4) The BWPS vocals of Look done in Beach Boy 66 voices.

^If anyone knows if these have been done, or are willing to take a crack at it, or give me a basic rundown of how to do it (best software, etc) Id be eternally grateful. If it's labor intensive and not something you'd do of your own volition Im even willing to pay for it. Let's use this tech to fill in those long-aggravating gaps, I say. If it's gonna kill the environment and take all our jobs we might as well get something good out of it

 43 
 on: July 04, 2025, 04:39:17 AM 
Started by GoogaMooga - Last post by Julia
Hot Take: remove the Al leads and the CIFOTM chants from the outro and have it focus on the b'ground vocals, it becomes an even better song.

I want to make a version without the "their song is love and the children know the way" lyrics, just the "aahs" and child reprise and wailing horns from the Talking Horns segment.

 44 
 on: July 04, 2025, 02:47:16 AM 
Started by XY - Last post by Bedroom Tapes
California Dreamin’ – Al Jardine from The Beach Boys in a rare interview

https://youtu.be/EpYUko0xEDo?si=9LeJ_5LEMl3dw9Y-

 45 
 on: July 03, 2025, 05:36:53 PM 
Started by Galaxy Liz - Last post by Julia
It has caused some pretty intense arguments in the past, but I still have the opinion (based on the actual timeline, reports from those involved, and interviews with band members from 1967) that the Derek Taylor announcement was premature, if not inaccurate, and that the two weeks between that last "DaDa" session in May, the Beach Boys returning from a European tour where they got some bad reviews in the press, and work starting the first week in June on what would become the "Smiley" working method are KEY and absolutely essential in understanding why things happened as they did.

Literally everything about the band's working methods in terms of recording and production changed in those two weeks, late May into June 1967. If the term to describe the changes could be a "seismic event", it would be appropriate. Things simply do not change that drastically in that short a time without a major catalyst leading to the changes.

One of the main events was the Beach Boys returning from Europe shouldering some criticism about their live sound versus the records.

Unfortunately very few have spoken about those two weeks in late May '67 with any specifics, except perhaps Nick Grillo. And I doubt we'll ever know, because I think some seriously heavy discussions happened that went beyond "what's our next album?".

I wonder if maybe it's not so much that the band "killed" SMiLE in that they had that kind of authority over Brian to force his hand, but that their (presumed) complaints of "how are we gonna perform this live?" were the excuse he needed to get out of his self-imposed bind? It's already been discussed multiple times how everything changed in that crucial late-December-into-1967 window, when the Fire session freaked him out and VDP left, at least for the first time, then work shifted to the single.

It's really unclear why that happened, and especially now that Brian is gone and nobody else (not even VDP) knew what was going on in his head, what his process/schedule was, the detailed schematic of the album track-by-track etc, it's just going to remain a mystery. My speculative theory is that when Brian got scared of Fire or realized that track was just not going to work out the way he thought it would, two things happened:

1) He lost his confidence. For years he'd been battling off Murry's relentless criticism, then he had the other Boys giving him at least a bit of grief since Pet Sounds (Asher says this, I believe it) as well as at least some of the Capitol execs. He could always blow them off though, because he still believed in his own muse. He knew he was making great music with Pet Sounds and that was enough to power through the negativity. But now he'd realized one of his great ideas just wasn't gonna work and while anyone else could shrug that off with "oh well, they can't all be winners" for him it was the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm sure it led to an avalanche of doubt "what if everyone's right and this music sucks? What if Im not the genius they say I am--geniuses dont make mistakes!" So he procrastinates with the single to avoid the album, or else begins to second guess everything starting with Heroes but either way the sessions meander into endless revision.

2) Without the elements, the album lost its "heart" and purpose in his mind. Brian wanted SMiLE to be this big all-important statement to the world, a symphony to God, a celebration of his new age spiritual practices (subud, astrology, numerology, i ching, etc) and that's not something you can just make compromises on. Unlike the Beatles, who shrugged off the "band-in-disguise" concept of Pepper early on (as Ringo said: "sod it, let's just do tracks") Brian's project was much more self-important. Listening to the Smog skit he says "in order to function, to live, be healthy and be happy, you've got to have, first of all the elements" and "the way we can help [make society better] is to make a record and present the facts in an interesting manner so people will listen." That's it, that's the thematic nexus of SMiLE right there. Without expressing the elements clearly in the music, the project has no purpose in his mind, there's no lynch pin holding these otherwise very disparate tracks together and that's not not something he could get over, either due to artistic integrity or obsessive compulsion or whatever.

Anyway, when the Boys come back from another tour, fresh with new worries and complaints about being unable to replicate his wall of sound in concert, Brian used that as a convenient excuse "you know what, you're right. It's too complex. Let's make something simpler you guys can do on stage." This way he could move on to something else, abandon this very complicated project that was giving him so much anxiety, without having to openly admit he failed. "It's not that I couldn't hack it, the group just needed something else at this time. I'll get around to finishing SMiLE...eventually." But then eventually never came, it was just too daunting a task and post-1967 the moment had passed and that kind of big psychedelic social-statement would've felt like a belated also-ran next to Sgt Pepper and the cool psych rock bands that had already taken rock to the next level. By 1968 most groups were doing a "back to basics" thing, so doing SMiLE would be like trying to make a disco album in 1980. (Yes, some people actually did that, but it was seen as passe.)

This is exactly what confuses me about the SMiLE to Smiley Smile transition. The music took such a dark/stark turn - it went from mostly happy and jovial to downright haunting. He went from the pinnacle of wall-of-sound with Pet Sounds (a sound that Brian had been using for years that led to so much of their success and fame) to the haunting desolation of Smiley Smile virtually overnight.

Did Brian really think that such a dramatic shift in sound was their key to a successful record? What did the other band members think of the shift in sound?

Guitarfool's quote above "One of the main events was the Beach Boys returning from Europe shouldering some criticism about their live sound versus the records." sheds some light on this, but I just can't see the guys (or Brian for that matter) saying "hey, we got a number 1 record with Good Vibrations, I bet our Woody Woodpecker song is really going to blow their minds next!"

I am way oversimplifying things, and I'm not staunchly fixed in my viewpoints regarding this era (mostly because it is just too confusing of a time, with so many variables, that it's impossible for me to have a logical/concrete perspective on it). But I'd also like to learn more about the band/Brian and this dramatic shift.

It just confirms that the final say was still Brian's at this time. He pushed music the other guys didn't fully believe in, whether it be too orchestral or not enough. He gave them a song like "Surf's Up" and just as they were warming up to it he took it away. He had that power. The other Boys didn't think Smiley was more commercial, there's even quotes of them saying as much, they were just along for the ride.

I think you can sum up Smiley with two phrases: self-sabotage and malicious compliance. Brian was giving the guys what they wanted in a way they didn't want it. Simpler arrangements and "let's just make music together like it used to be" (as Mike always says "the two of us, in a room") but in a deliberately uncommercial way. I believe this was his way of backing out of competing with Phil Spector and the Beatles, making music he knew on some level would be rejected by the public so that when he inevitably came up short he could justify that it was intentional. It just speaks to his immense talent that even when he's deliberately making "bad" music it's still innovative, fascinating and somehow still way ahead of its time. In terms of group dynamics, I think he was trying to throw the guys a bone: they felt left out of the creative process so he had them record the whole album together and have fun with it. Mike felt jilted so he credited "Gettin Hungry" to the two of them.

As for why the music feels so dark and ominous, I believe that's just his true mentality seeping into the music. He's expressing his frustration and turmoil with his art, consciously or unconsciously.

To tie both of these responses together, I'll say that it wasn't in the group's power to unilaterally overrule Brian and cancel SMiLE however they had that power in their ability to plant seeds of doubt in his mind. I really think if anybody (besides Dennis who it seems was very supportive) but preferably Mike or Murry had just said "you're doing amazing things with this music, Brian, I'm proud of you" I think it would've made all the difference. Oh well.

 46 
 on: July 03, 2025, 05:30:15 PM 
Started by HeyJude - Last post by Rocker
Al just posted a video of him and band performing "Ding dang" acapella for about 1:15 minutes.

 47 
 on: July 03, 2025, 12:16:50 PM 
Started by jackjachman - Last post by Julia
Count me among those who would pay good money for a Love You boxset, even if it has to include material from 15BO and Adult/Child (which I personally don't care for) to fill it out. Maybe, hopefully, the silver lining to Brian's passing might mean that we get an archival release of material more associated with him as an individual artist. I'd love a comprehensive Paley Sessions boxset, even if a lot of it has come out in other places, it'd be nice to just have it all in one place and without any inferior remixes like in the 04 album. Im not sure what exists in the vaults for Brian's solo career but I'd love an "Imagination...Naked" type release of any raw tapes that may exist pre-Thomas' noodling, or perhaps the same for BW88, if there are demos and/or less overwrought mixes out there that let those songs breathe. (In my opinion the final version is so cacophonous I can hardly make out the melodies.)

Now, to my favorite topic  Grin...
Is there any good reason why the SMiLE material hasn't gotten the Pet Sounds treatment of officially released a capella and instrumental only versions of the songs? I know the TSS boxset gave us some session highlights and the "backing vocals montage" track but so much was missing if there wasn't a valid reason like the tapes being lost. Im desperately trying to get my hands on isolated CIFOTM chorus/SU reprise vocals for my fanmix as well as what I believe is referred to as the "Version 1 chorus" of CIFOTM. (As heard here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O271xZpAIw8 and in a more complete albeit low quality form here: https://youtu.be/k8aBdPYtNkI?si=H73-yPSMLMhELsGg&t=172 <I'd kill to have that entire piece in high quality!)

I wouldn't mind higher quality versions of some of the Psychedelic Sounds as well, though realistically I'm probably alone on that front. Just the Smog and Taxi Cabber skits and more of the Hal Blaine veggie fight would be great. (The one they included in TSS was way too brief.)


 48 
 on: July 03, 2025, 06:53:52 AM 
Started by Zenobi - Last post by Zenobi
While I agree that without Melinda we would have got nothing after 1988 (apart from everything else, she saved him from Landy), I think it was never "Joe or nothing", maybe excepting the 2012 reunion.
People tend to forget how productive "solo" Brian has been. The Beach Boys did 29 studio albums from 1962 to 2012 (15 of them before 1970), Brian 12 albums from 1988 to 2021.
Most of this work did not need Joe. Brian had several main collaborators: too many (but notably Andy Paley) for BW1988, Darian and VDP himself for BWPS, his band for the excellent Christmas album, Scott for TLOS, etc. Always excepting 2012, Joe was instrumental only for Imagination and NPP, imho Brian's weakest works. Sorry Joe, nothing personal, I liked you too as a person... but not as a producer alas.
The Paley Sessions could have easily been released if "the stars had aligned"... instead, it was "don't f... with the Formula" yet again. Whoever invented that mantra.

 49 
 on: July 03, 2025, 06:05:58 AM 
Started by Rocker - Last post by Zenobi
This is a fantastic tribute by one of the greatest guys in the music business, Darian Sahanaja. That the real saviour of SMiLE would come from Indonesia is nothing short of a miracle.

 50 
 on: July 02, 2025, 06:48:03 PM 
Started by myonlysunshine - Last post by Angela Jones
Boy thats gotta be the strangest single-post SS user Ive ever seen. Huh.

Also, nice to see other people who don't believe the "song is love and the children know the way" lyric is vintage. The SU wiki quotes Reily saying it was vintage 66 Brian but I just don't believe it. I've always thought if that were the case, that's what Brian would sing in the various instances where he recorded the song during the SMiLE sessions. Plus, it just sounds too...preachy...to come from Brian.

I believe Jack Rieley stated he'd added the coda lyric which was added after Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson, and engineer Stephen Desper completed the coda. I believe there was a story about them doing this in Brian's home and Brian racing downstairs when he heard them and having this in his memory so I'm assuming he perhaps had part of the melody from the coda. I'm going from memory too so sorry if I've got any of this wrong.  It doesn't scan very well perhaps: 'the children know THE way'.

Some of the stuff online seems to be incorrect . Brian sang handsome mannered baton and I'm guessing this is s a VDP pun.  Red Baton = Baton Rouge.

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