Recent Posts

Again, I used the term “borderline shaming”, and I specifically said that because at heart I don’t think you’re actually trying to shame people - but when you use words like “absurd” to describe the enthusiasm people have about this music, how else do you expect people to feel about their preference/interest?

Thinking about all this I was reminded of a scene from the movie ‘Mr. Holland’s Opus’ where Mr. Holland, a music teacher, is explaining to his superior the reason he is using an unorthodox way of teaching his students music:

“Mrs. Jacobs….I will use anything from Beethoven to Billie Holiday to rock and roll, if I think it'll help me teach a student to love music.”

I guess how this relates is that I see people in this thread excited about The Beach Boys - and I honestly don’t think it matters why they are excited about them. I think that every fan in this thread would agree that the real Beach Boys are the way to go. But that shouldn’t diminish someone’s excitement, interest, and enjoyment in an AI track, either.

I do see where you’re coming from, HeyJude, and we probably agree more than disagree. But I guess I’m just happy to see people using this technology creatively in a positive way, and I’m happy that it’s bringing enjoyment to people.

Yes, of course "breathless" is a bit of hyperbole. But I see an enthusiasm in some cases for the AI stuff that I don't see for the actual music (meaning *all* of the other music, not just the top-tier stuff), and there is some unavoidable absurdity to that, in my opinion.

I don't think I'm shaming anyone; I think an accusation of being patronizing or maybe sort of didactic, might be a more accurate accusation. To be clear, I'm not intending to do any of that either. But I acknowledge that kind of saying "People, listen to the THOUSAND hours of real music instead of the fake music" is unavoidably going to kind of come across that way.

I don't think I'm likely going to change anybody's mind, but I think it's just worth kind of chewing on alternative viewpoints *within* the realm of this topic, just on occasion at least. As I said, I haven't been butting in here scoffing at every new fake AI vocal that gets dropped or anything.

If you’re genuinely curious about why people like this stuff, perhaps ask them “why?” instead of telling them to listen to a Tampa ’74 show.

As for the rest of your post, I still completely stand by everything I said about musical/technical creativity and people’s personal music taste, and don’t see the need to respond further about that.

Bingo. I explained sum of my "why" in the reply above. Beyond that, I'm intrigued by what could have been. As somebody who internalized the band's catalogue decades ago, I think a lot about what else they could have done and how that might have sounded. AI is a way to sort of test that. Most of it that I've heard so far, noble an effort as it may be, is terrible. Dae Lims' stuff is a rare exception (save for his 'Holy Man,' which makes Dennis sound British for some reason).

I'm intrigued by how close we can get to impersonation. I'm intrigued with the process.

But what I'm intrigued with the most is how apparent Dae Lims' talent is. He had to craft a dead-on analog impersonation of Brian with his own voice.  You can know these utilities in and out and be an expert musician, but if you don't intimately understand the sound of a person's voice, it's going to sound off, at best. Dae Lims has replicated most of Brian, Carl and Al's vocal qualities-- from the position of their tongues to the way they use their vocal chords-- with his own God given vocal chords.

AI just rounds out the sound, mitigating for anatomical structure and the genetic factors that make somebody's voice unique. It's quite a talent. I'm intrigued by it.

Personally, I’m a little less excited at the prospect of hearing “young Brian” sing something he already sang as an older Brian, but I can still enjoy it if it sounds good.

That's actually what I'm most excited about, particularly as I continue to explore why I don't care much for later Beach Boys music (particularly Love You) and Brian's solo stuff. Would I appreciate Love You more if it was sung by a younger, less vocally thrashed Brian? If nothing else, it's a troubleshooting tool. Dae Lims made a Love You track sung by a 60s Brian and I really like it. This tells me that part of my distaste for that album is Brian's voice. Turns out I really can't stand Brian's vocals from the 70s until about BWPS. Hearing some tracks from those decades sung by a younger Brian gives me a new appreciation for them.

I said you were borderline shaming because: you’re claiming people are “breathlessly” searching for these AI tracks…two people low-key ask for some lossless files and they’re breathlessly asking? Really? You said that listening to AI tracks is like “cheating on your family”…There’s a clear difference between imploring and questioning versus making outlandish analogies that deride people’s musical tastes and interests (whatever your reasoning behind the analogy). I just see a bit of exaggeration with your posts and honestly don’t see the need. If you’re genuinely curious about why people like this stuff, perhaps ask them “why?” instead of telling them to listen to a Tampa ’74 show.

As for the rest of your post, I still completely stand by everything I said about musical/technical creativity and people’s personal music taste, and don’t see the need to respond further about that.

Yeah, I'm not shaming anybody. I'm more like imploring, I guess? And lamenting? A bit of "wtf?" I guess? People are gonna do what they're gonna do.

Really, I've tried to only occasionally dip back into the discussion, and I've tried to not just dismissively say what part of my brain thinks, especially with the more ridiculous, missing-the-point uses of AI vocals, which is some varation of  "Geez, just go look at porn."

I don't view even the "best" of the fake AI vocal pieces as much *musically* creative as it is a skillset in using technology/software. I'm not saying it takes zero familiarity with music, but the "musically creative" process involved in the fake AI vocal tracks is not the same type of musical creativity that springs from those who actually write and perform themselves. In my opinion, obviously. Thus, what comes out at the end of the process is just not the same thing.

I can't deny the possibility that some people are as interested or more interested in the technological noodling than the kind of heart/soul of the music itself and the pure creativity and skill involved in making real music.

In my "family" analogy, what I mean is that you have an effectively INFINITE amount of time with your family. We have effectively an infinite amount of *real* music to listen to. So yeah, if you're spending time with a fake holographic family (or whatever we want to make the analogy), where you're cavorting with your AI "what she would have looked like if she were still 25 years old" wife, then I'd question the usefulness. Obviously, this is an imperfect analogy. The "family" analogy involves morals and ethics as it pertains to personal relationships. Brian Wilson isn't going to have his feelings hurt if you listen to "1965 Brian sings 'Let's Put Our Hearts Together'". Or actually, would he? Or, would he wonder why people burn time listening to artificially created music?

This stuff is kind of aural fanfic, and I've always found fanfic (whether applied to fictional works or real people) supremely ridiculous. Much like fake AI vocals, most of it is *very poorly made*, and the stuff that is done relatively well still leaves me wondering variations of "what's the point?"

Hey Jude, your “family” analogy seemingly assumes that the only thing people should care about is the “family” or “band” as it relates to their real music and real history.

What is being forgotten/ignored is that many fans are very drawn to the technically creative side of the band. Which means many fans probably appreciate the technically creative side to many other musical creations. So when someone uses both technical and musical expertise to artificially create something related to The Beach Boys, it is only natural that some fans will enjoy listening to those creations.

Listening to those creations is not like ignoring your family. Rather it just is what it is: people who love this band so much that they’ll listen to real or fake versions of The Beach Boys. And again it comes down to what we each enjoy, at a personal level, about the band. Yes, I can listen to 5 hours of Sea of Tunes Pet Sounds Sessions to enjoy both the history and the creative aspect of the music. But maybe I also enjoy hearing and seeing Dae Lims creative take on a Beach Boys tune…it’s not that I want to ignore the real Beach Boys, but it’s that I want to hear something creatively beautiful, regardless of where it comes from. That’s my own musical taste and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Some fans solely enjoy trawling through hundreds of hours of demo tracks and live albums because they are drawn to the real band and the real history, and they have every right to do that. Other people apparently like hearing alternate histories and ideas, and there’s nothing wrong with that either.

And that isn’t to say you shouldn’t speak your opinion about the tracks - but I don’t think those opinions should extend to, borderline shaming, comparisons involving ignoring family, either.

I say this as someone who has almost two decades experience shaming people who like the Summer in Paradise album. So take all this with a grain of salt

ON AiR: BRiAN{ö}LoveVol. 371. By VAL Johnson~Howe [:"prettee funkee"]/PapaLaPap (2024)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   EW, A W/L;  AN iF(!), EH ?       T/BB: "T*H*E F*i*N*A*L(?) W*A*V*E !?«  

You never know what can turn up. This guy popped up ten years ago with the master tapes for the Shut Down volume 2 LP ….so fingers crossed for more.

Was hoping there'd be more details in the court filings...