The Smiley Smile Message Board

The professor would like to start his first and only thread, designated for any news about a new album by the BB. This would include summaries of what we know, news that arises in any new press releases and interviews, insider information from the BB universe etc.  The previous threads on the post-reunion situation degenerated into some inappropriate personal attacks, and I want a reliable, quick place to go for real information and not for something stupid and vile and disgusting. I hope that adults and gentlemen/women can share ideas and information without profanity and vulgarity. I am not being a condescending scholar, just a fan who wants an effective board and concrete, thoughtful contributions.

I hope we can move from the indefinite article in my thread subject to a definite one. Thank you all.

Well, we know Brian is working on a new album. Other than that, I know of nothing concrete worth sharing as of yet...

Mike wants to write again with Brian.

Wheww....positive so far Prof! ;D

Great start. That's exactly what we need now: clear, lean, logical, proven. I hope we can merge these two realities, Brian writing and Mike wanting to write with Brian, as more history unfolds. Thanks for the quick support and acute contributions so far. I would not start a thread unless I thought several others wanted just such an approach to the topic.

When's the last time anyone asked him about/he mentioned Pleasure Island? If he's gonna to a thematic rock n roll album with The Beach Boys, it would be cool if he pursued that idea.

Has Brian ever defined what he means by this famous rock and roll album? Didn't he say a few years back it was going to be heavy or hard rock?

To me, TWGMTR is a rock and roll album. Sure, not full of faster BB tracks of years gone by but suitable for their elder statesman title. 

An album full of tracks mixing multi track vocals at a fast clip this late in the game does concern me a bit.

Someone mentioned in a recent article that he has four or so new songs.

Possible songs in consideration for the next album:

"Honeycomb"
"Angels in Love"
"Night Came Gently"
"Stowaway"

what was the song Bruce was working on that is depicted in "doin it again" and was obviously not on capitals final cut? Was it something unreleased or redone? Stowaway is a great song (though not a rocker), and I can hear the BB harmonies in by head on it. It has a lovely, moving melodic hook.

"She believes in Love again", a reworking of a track originally from BB85.

Bruce said he may one day leak the track, with tounge firmly in cheek, of course, I think.

"Honeycomb"? Really? The same "Honeycomb" he covered in like 1974? Where'd you see/hear this? And what about "Angels in Love" and "Night Came Gently"?

Angels in Love and Night Came Gently was briefly mentioned somewhere in this thread: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,13574.0.html

Brian mentioned in an interview with 60 Minutes Australia that he had an idea in his head for a new arrangement of the Jimmie Rodgers song.

On Sept 16 and 17, Brian's Facebook page had pictures of Brian, Jeff and Darian in the recording studio. Captions were "Back and Work" on Brian's pic, and "Brian's Got Company: Jeff Foskett's in the house... and Darian Sahanaja. Something's going on here..."

Waves of Love!!    :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Gotta have Proud Mary on the next album!

Ah... "NCG" is a goodie.  :)

Leftovers, re-imaginations of published songs, solo efforts now done with full band, the remaining elements of the suite, any new songs M and Br. come up with: looks like there is a lot to chose from, much of it not being a rock album per se or in toto. Perhaps a double album or two albums--one a new, coherent rocker and a 20/20 style of various genres and authors, which could work its own magic. Staying positive.

I think all he said about that project (in the last few years) is that it should be Spector-like Rock'n'Roll. "That lucky old sun" was quite rocking and I think it would be something like that just not with the narratives.

We did hear some clips in a interview, sounded really good! i don't have the link tho.


I remember some interview where he talked about it and mentioned Buddy Holly.




Also, wasn't there a David Marks songs offered for TWGMTR that could be use for the next record? i think it was something from his solo album.

yeah, that's Stowaway. Originally released on Dave's album "I Think About You Often".

Can you give a description as to what it sounds like?

yes,I just checked it out on Itunes and it's not bad,his voice kind of reminds me of Dennis' voice.

Well, in the dramatic news of Brian's response, we get his wish to do "one last album together," so that must qualify for our thread as the most current and authoritative--and quite positive--word on the potential for the album.  Waiting for Mike to say yes, now?  What do you think?

Only if he gets to co-write all of the tracks, be allowed to give Darian 6 to 9 noogies, make the second half the "My Life in Transcendental Meditation Suite" and get an assortment of shirts loud enough to be spotted with the naked eye from orbit. Act now, terms may change!

They'll quickly dust off old left over material, redo a previous song or two from prior albums, do a cover or two and/or add a live version from the reunion concert to get something out soon because Capitol needs something "now" due to the fact that the group is "hot."

That will be met with public blase and disappointment, thus giving Brian time to work on a more fitting album with new material, great sounds and memorable harmonies.

 ;D    ;)

Yes, thanks! i went to listen to the sample again on Amazon and it is a really really nice tune, cool melody and good instrumental, would love to hear a BB version of that.

Muhahahaha! Posts like this makes me realize how much I love this messed up, wonderful band.

Walk on by would be such a great song for the new album!

Didn't Al have a versions of "Islands in the Sun" - not sure the exact title - the Harry Belafonte song?

Is that a possibility?

Thank you for keeping this lonely thread going, though we are in the dark days of winter gloom with no real information about the BB plan. . . . . . .

Keep our ear to the ground and hope for hope of a new album. . . . . .

the Professor holds out hope for some news soon. . . . .music that transcends season, politics and alienation. . .

I hope you're right about us getting a new album professor, but I don't think it's in the cards. As much as I (and apparently Brian Wilson and Al Jardine) wanted it, The Beach Boys are not going to continue on like it used to be. They are pretty much un-reunited now. Maybe they will do it again, but honestly, I'm happy with what they've done, and anything else is just a cherry on top.

Plus.....we are getting a box set, which is gonna have a lot of great previously unreleased stuff. And likely some stuff from the "current" lineup. So there you go.

a sensible and kind message. . . . .perhaps that boxed set will have the songs we are discussing here--the left overs, for lack of a better term, from the TWGMTR sessions;  but you're right: we must cherish what we have.  I care so much for David; I hope he is fulfilled with all he did.

thank you sweetdude; I will continue to hope and to monitor and to look forward to whatever unfolds. . .

there's also songs from "Unleash the love" (where "daybreak" came from) that could be finished and put on the next cd,"10,000 years" and "glow crecent glow" would make good editions.

10,000 Years has got to be released... it's a cowrite with Dennis!

one wonders what the difference would be in releasing these songs on a boxed set (they are done and waiting for post-production) and making a new album with them on it (the BB go back to the studio and actually make them into an album).

The latter requires "reunion," and the former does not, eh?

On the way to storm-ravaged Jersey to see family and help out with some shopping and clean up; they lost power, time, and work though not their homes. Will listen to BB on the plane, but it's getting old. . . . . receding into the past without the hope of more harmony. Watching those promotional videos and talk of perpetual harmony and unity is depressing.

Wasn't Brian supposedly working on an album based on The Little Prince? Whatever happened to that idea?

Probably Dennis didn't mean for the track to be all about Maharishi! Maybe that's why he abandoned it).

Where can I get Unleash The Love?? Inbox me :p

Interesting idea. Where did this get mentioned?

Orson Welles was briefly obsessed with making a film out of it mixing live action with animation but couldn't get on with Disney, who wanted to be the only genius in the room.

Orson, I'm a genius too!

It was reported that his 2007 RFH commission would be based on The Little Prince at one stage.

The professor is just dusting off this thread and preparing it for any news we get this month about the BB and a new album.  I don't want to be caught like the brides with no oil in their lamps.  I am listening to David's Stowaway from "I think about you often," I am can't help but wonder if it will be on the album.  I wonder if the boxed set will have the 2012 band material on it, perhaps delaying, or at least changing the character of, the next BB album.

I really want to hear what "this 2012 band" can do. TWGMTR has lots of mixed stuff, from different studios, different authors, musicians--not a complete "reunited BB in the studios woodshedding" mode of creativity and composition. Who agrees and can explain it better than I?  In case I seem to be contradictory here, I would take new versions of Stowaway and Waves of Love, for example as legitimate "new recordings" if the reunited band re-imagines and re-creates them.

Not quite sure what "The Professor" was expecting here with That's Why God Made the Radio.  You had all the surviving original members of the band record together for the first time in over a decade.  How was that *not* a reunion album?  With the exception of "Daybreak Over the Ocean", wasn't the bulk of the album newly-recorded material from the recording sessions?  What else do you want?

Agreed, Awesomman. I listen to it every day.  But look at the variety of band members and the different locations of recording. I want to see how this 50th -reunion orchestra itself could make an album with Brian "really" producing without JT. Al even admitted that they did not, unfortunately, stand around the mic and record as in the old days but were dropped in to do parts. We have been sold some myths about the creation and provenance of this album.

Why is Skunk Baxter on this album. Why are their so few composition credited to the BB as writers? Only one BB is credited with playing an instrument (and the liner notes have apparent lacunae).  Bruce calls it a punt, and I can't help feeling that we have a J. Thomas construction of a BB album rather than a fully "real" BB album, however artistic and thoughtful that final result may be, as I myself have noted.

I hear what you are sayin' prof, but let's be honest here. You don't think Brian really "produced" the album? I admit I was skeptical about everything from Imagination to BWRG, but the facts are Rolling Stone magazine themselves said that Brian was running the show. Brian hasn't really been without a 'co-producer" since like SMiLE in '67. So it is what it is.

The thing about Skunk Baxter being on the album, and the relative lack of David Marks? Let's be honest....Dave was probably an afterthought on this project. He wasn't even on "Do It Again" at first, til for some reason, he was brought in. Chances are however, that Baxter did a lot of the work on the tracks early on before the rest of The Beach Boys were brought in. And Brian probably liked the feel and wanted to keep it that way. If they did another album, maybe Dave would be more prominent since he would be involved from the beginning, whereas he was probably brought in a little late on this one.

So few compositions credited to the guys from the group as writers? That one I don't get. Ever song on the album was written by a Beach Boy. Mostly Brian with help from someone outside of the group. Sound familiar? It should! Cuz it was done on a decent amount of their early hits, Pet Sounds, and SMiLE.

Only one Beach Boy playing an instrument? You do realize this is the group that hardly played on a bunch of their albums?

And lastly, about being a Joe Thomas construction, I just fail to agree. This was Brian's baby, as all the journalism around the album has proven.

I take the Prof's point though about how more authentic it might seem if the perceived main players were gathered together in the studio for vocal sessions instead of flying 'em in as and when. It's ice cream weather, get the gang back together an' all that!

Given AGD's repeated comments, and the fact that he has a lot of sources within the organisation, I strongly suspect that there will be no next Beach Boys album.

I also think that it would be better for most of us to *think* there is no next Beach Boys album,  because that way we won't be disappointed if there isn't, but will be pleasantly surprised if there is.

Personally, in the unlikely event that there was a new album, I wouldn't want it to be especially collaborative. I'd want all or almost all the songs to be written by Brian, perhaps with Mike being allowed to write a small number of the lyrics. I'd want Al to have more lead vocals, and I'd want someone other than Joe Thomas being Brian's co-producer (possibly someone from Brian's band).

Thank you St. Andrew, most noble of the apostles. I think I can put it this way, I would like to see what these 5 men as collaborative artists can come up with for  their own album.  TWG is not "that" album, however great it is. 

So no 1998 Imagination  leftovers; no JT; no hired guns. . . . .just the 50th anniversary orchestra in the studio. I want a Sunflower style experience. I don't want Dave to be an afterthought; I want Bruce on the bass or piano; Al on guitar; Brian playing something. I stop short of Mike on sax.  I don't care about other past precedents with the boys not making the tracks; rather I am wondering what these 5 men, as composers, writers, thinkers, performers, poets, friends, and brothers can produce together. We all have a visions, and that is mine; I will be quite content if a new album somewhat approximates this vision.

Best to all.

That album would take years to make. I don't know that they have all that time to spend on one project. Would it be worth it to sacrifice more Brian solo for one more true Beach Boys album, of possible varying quality? It very well could be, but something to think about.

I dunno.  It just seems like you're nitpicking at this point.  Why is Skunk Baxter credited on the album?  Who cares?  At no point did this impair my enjoyment of the album.  And regardless as to whether the group sang harmonies together or dropped them in individually, again, what difference does it make?  The vocals still sounded good.  I'll give you that Joe Thomas' production is a little on the glossy side; you could slide the album on the floor from one side of the room to the other. 

TWGMTR was — for the most part — ghost-produced by J. Thomas.

I enjoy the album quite a bit, and find the vinyl sequence very satisfying.  

There will be a new studio album in 2013.

Don't let 2012's malaise confuse the issue.

WOW....pretty exciting news!!!


I don't want to get too far ahead of things, but:

new album + box set = 2013 reunion tour?  (And I thought last year was good...)

Some interesting opinions, and I'm very excited about what's mentioned above.

I do think though that instead of looking at the recording and who does what in a sort of "who SHOULD do what" approach, they need to have a "who CAN do what" approach (if that makes sense), I mean Mike should have quite a few leads, but is his voice up it?, I mean Al, Brian and David can still belt them out. Al, Bruce and Brian can still hit high notes. With some coaching, could Mike get out a killer bass vocal like he used to be able to?.

As far as instrumentation goes looking at the surviving "Originals" (for the sake of argument this is including Bruce) We have Three keyboardists (Al, Brian, Bruce), Two bassists (Al, Brian) Three guitarists (Al, Bruce?, David) A (kind of) Drummer (Brian, but is he still tight enough and willing enough to drum on a record?) and a Saxophonist (Mike).

Now realistically, Brian is probably not up to drumming on a whole record unless it's 12 tracks of "Be My Baby" or "Love You 2013" (I want this album!! :lol) so they'd need a Drummer. Again, Brian doesn't always seem keen on playing bass, when was the last time he played bass on a record? (I'm thinking BW88) so that leaves Al. Bruce has stated in the past that he doesn't really like playing Guitar so that leaves Al and David. The three Keyboardists are competent enough so that's fine. Do we need a Saxophone?, if so can Mike still play?

Basically, they are going to need outside musicians at some point, but, theoretically, they could pretty much construct a record independently if they wanted too.

For the love of God, someone please convince BW to take the high note in the harmonies this time.

Btw, awesome news.

2013... :rock :rock

Post of the year, so far.

I do hope so, but I'm going to remain pessimistic for the moment -- better to have an unexpected nice surprise than not to have one's expectations met, and the signals coming out are at best ambiguous (though you're one of the people I trust to know what he's talking about, so that raises my estimate of a new album's likelihood somewhat).

Should such a thing happen, though, I'd go against the majority of posts in this thread and just want it to be the best album it can be. I don't care if the songs are written collaboratively or if Brian sits on his own and writes them all then tells the others what their parts are. Personally, I think the latter would work better (it's very hard to create art by committee) but whatever works best to create the album. I also couldn't care less if any of the band play instruments on it -- none of them are great instrumental performers, with the exception of David. What I would like is a new album of Brian Wilson songs, but with Mike, Bruce and (especially) Al singing on it, and ideally with less of a 90s-AOR sheen on it than the last album had. If any of the other band members come up with something exceptionally good, that's fine too, of course.

I'd be even more excited about another tour (I've spent the last few days listening over and over to various recordings from last year's tour), but I suspect that's even less likely.

I want the next album's performance credits to read:

Brian - Moog
Bruce - Handclaps
Mike - Saxophone
Ricky - Drums
David - Lead guitar
Blondie - Bass guitar
Al - Inaudible guitar

Believe. It will happen. 2013 will be another big year for the Beach Boys.  :)

Minds can be changed. Dates can be canceled. Contracts are made to be broken. Don't care if the new album is as good as the last. Just wanna see Dave, Al, Brian, Mike and Bruce back in the mix.

Some random thoughts/opinions....

When you have a Top 5 (did it go to 2 or 3?) album, there's a pretty good chance SOMEBODY will give you a chance for a follow-up. And, that's gonna be the key - the money to fund the project. I suppose Capitol would jump back in again? It wasn't a nightmare was it, like the previous horror stories we've heard surrounding Beach Boys' albums? They (the people running Capitol) have proven to be, not only competent, but also fans of the group. They don't have much to lose, really, with them owning the back catalogue and everything. And, that would give the guys a reason to get back together to tour - to promote the new single(s) and album.

Brian will never have full control again, or be allowed to solely produce an album. I don't think he wants to anyway. Brian Wilson has a track record of almost single-handedly stopping momentum and obliterating the direction of the group/his solo career. You can go all the way back to Smiley Smile and Friends, through to 15 Big Ones and Love You, all the way up to Gettin' In Over My Head and All I Really Want For Christmas. Please let others decide the direction of the album.


That also applies to the production. Say what you will about Joe Thomas, but I'd hate to hear what That's Why God Made The Radio would sound like without his involvement and/or Brian being the sole producer. Now, who would be the co-producer is another question. I just have a funny feeling we haven't heard the last of Joe Thomas. Does he still own the rest of the songs on that old tape that was made years ago?

Finally, do the Beach Boys - Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, and Dave - really care if they lay down the tracks on a new project. Not at this stage in their careers; not that they don't have the time. Actually, I'd rather hear other musicians, like the days of The Wrecking Crew, who might have some good ideas to contribute. Judging by the guys' solo albums, cough.... :police:

I'll tell you, Dave is something special as a composer and player; If the BB really did a version of his Stowaway, it's going to be celestial. I have been listening to "I think about you often" non stop this week, including at Redondo at sunset. So I would like to see each of the BB expressing themselves artistically on a new album, in whatever way they best gain the pride of expression. For Bruce this may mean producing Waves of Love; for Mike, a Love-Wilson new good song and some creative bass vocal parts, etc. I don't want any of them to be afterthoughts.  Art is no always collaborative, but some great Dennis and Bruce and Al songs benefit from Mike and Brian and Carl's parts, etc., etc. You all know this. No matter who writes, I want to see a "band" effort.

Yeah, I'm with you, as far as contributing songs is concerned. I don't have many complaints about TWGMTR. Other than a few minor quibbles, that's about the best you were gonna get out of them. But, I would've liked to have heard representation from each member with at least one song each. Like we have been discussing in some of the other threads, I'm usually for MORE rather than less. I've said it ad nauseum, but when you have 5-6 songwriters in a group...

"TWGMTR was — for the most part — ghost-produced by J. Thomas."

No surprise there.  That's what I and probably most hard core fans figured, that Brian had a role in the production of TWGMR, but he's not up to  producing an album.   

I'd venture a guess that the existing Beach Boys were more than a little excited by the reaction to TWGMTR, and the reception to the tour.  No ever gets over the adulation of being treated like a superstar, and last year the Beach Boys were in the news and superstars again.  My guess is they want to make another album and enjoy the success that will come from it.

This ties along with what I've heard, so to read confirmation fills my heart with joy. What is interesting to me is:

The key part is the fact it doesn't mean it was entirely produced by Thomas, like many of us thought. Just my own personal hunch, but I think Brian was more involved with this than he was on Imagination (which he basically disowned shortly after its release). We do know Brian had vetoed  a song or two, which is part of what the producer does.

I have no problem with Joe Thomas as a producer. 

He does good work.

Could be better, could be a hell of a lot worse! People might scoff at this, but I think another board member made this suggestion a while back, too...I'd love to see what Jason Brewer could do for The Beach Boys on an album (or a couple tracks). Like "Freedom Wind" or not, he pretty much sonically nailed various aspects of their sound.

JT's style worked at that time in the Beach Boys history. If BW chooses him again it'll be the right choice, whether we like it or not, as the artist has the right to make the wrong choices if he/she deems fit!

I say this: at this stage of their lives/careers DON'T FCK WITH THE FORMULA! At least, there's no need to.

They found a very successful formula at an unexpected time, and it worked wonderfully: a Wilson-Thomas co-production, the five guys together and in peace, an assortment of good/very good/great songs, great vocals from everybody, a good dose of ML involvement, Capitol behind it...

I love their adventurous stuff as much as anyone. But at this point, if they risk nothing, if they repeat this formula for the next years, and if everything holds together (God grant them many more and healthy years), it would be a dream come true to many of us.

Sh*t, "From There To Back Again" is pretty damn adventurous. (Sidenote: I'd love to a "making of" for that song.)

If we get another song of that caliber + 9 mediocre songs laden with autotune and crappy snares, I'll be happy.

+1!

We're off to a flying start.

Brian has to work with the people he is comfortable with.  Period.

It was — in my opinion — a mistake to NOT use Mark Linett for mastering "TWGMTR."

Mark is really dialed into the BB sound, and VERY dialed into Brian.

Absolutely agreed with all of this. If Brian wants to work with Joe Thomas again, of course he should, but I'd *prefer* that if he has a co-producer it be Darian, or Scott Bennett, or one of the other people he's worked with who would be capable of doing the job. That's Why God Made The Radio sounded much better than Imagination or Stars & Stripes, but it still sounded unpleasant to my ears compared to any of Brian's post-Imagination solo work. But if Joe T is who Brian wants to work with, then he's who he should work with.

As for Linnett, I can't imagine why they would ever choose anyone else, given his quarter-century-plus experience working with Brian...

Amen.

TLOS was bursting with original material....the chords, the harmonies, the instrumentals - it's one of my favorite albums ever....all thanks to Darian, Bennett, and Brian's collaboration. Fast forward to TWGMTR: you have a compromise album FULL of autotune. It's not cohesive, the songwriting is kinda bland (minus Brian's obvious stunners).

I agree that Brian should team up with Darian/Bennett on this upcoming album. Make it original, make it FRESH. Don't bring in past material, don't compromise. They need to create a vision of a beautiful album and run with it. They need to trash the autotune (Mike's voice is still great, there is no need for autotune).

With TLOS, Brian proved he is still a genius; partner him with those same collaborators + the voices of The Beach Boys and you'll have a #1 album.

^ I agree :P

I agree but I'm looking forward to whatever they do, really.

So how is Al doing? ;D

Couldn't agree more. That Lucky Old Sun is one of the five or six best things ever done by any of the Beach Boys, together or separately. That's Why God Made The Radio, while better than I was expecting it to be (and it's grown on me) is mediocre with a few flashes of greatness.

Wow, I don't know how I missed this thread... I'm just hearing this "new album" talk for the first time.  This just made my year!!!!!!!
 :happydance

I like Joe Thomas -- Imagination is one of my top BB/BW albums.  TWGMTR is really good too.  I wouldn't mind them switching it up either.  For example, the sparse and informal feel that Don Was achieved on the short little I Just Wasn't Made For These Times album would be nice.  An honest sound that worked for the Documentary, but could still be a nice sound for the Beach Boys....

perhaps, Rick Rubin?

I don't understand why TLOS is looked at as this great example of Brian's songwriting and performing, where TWGMTR isn't. In my opinion, his singing is much better on TWGMTR as is the fact that Mike, Al, and Bruce also got to split the leads up. The background vocals and harmonies? No doubt I'll take The Beach Boys over Brian's group any day of the week.

The songwriting? Maybe I'm just missing something, but although TLOS showed Brian still had songwriting chops, I think TWGMTR shows that he could write things both esoteric ("From There To Back Again") and super commercial ("Isn't It Time"). Whereas there are a few bummer song on TLOS, I think everything on TWGMTR hits the spot. Even "Spring Vacation", "Bill and Sue", and "Beaches In Mind". Whereas you probably won't find me listening to "Mexican Girl" or "California Role" anytime soon. And I think the more emotional material on TWGMTR like "From There To Back Again" and "Summer's Gone" works so much better and resonates more with me than something like "Midnight's Another Day" or "Southern California".


Rick Rubin would be a horrible choice. He's not really much of a producer, he's pretty hands off, but at the same time I don't think his style of saying "that sucks, go work on something new" would work well with somebody like Brian, who I feel needs encouragement to keep doing great work.

I think Jeff Lynne would be a good choice as producer, he can mix vocals like no one's business, is a technical genius and would probably have a few very good ideas to run with Brian, which in turn could possibly lead to Brian getting all competitive again and coming back with something even better, that's the thing I think, most (and I say most) of Brian's contemporaries are not putting out their best material these days and I'm sure he couldn't give a hoot about competing with modern artists musically.

Re: Brian's vocals on TLOS vs. TWGMTR: It's not his singing ability which makes them sound drastically different. The vox on TLOS are bone dry, very little processing. Very uncharacteristic for Brian. It did show that in a studio setting, he can still deliver the goods with little to no aid. The vocals on TWGMTR are heavily processed. He does sound good, but there's a lot going on there. You just can't take it at face value - not that it's a criticism, it's just what it is.

I'd like to see something resembling a happy medium on the next album - more like Gershwin and Disney. Brian's vocals come to life with they are double tracked and reverbed. He doesn't really need autotune, pitch correction, or heavy processing (found on TWG...), just a patient producer who doesn't rely on ALL the tools to make him sound modern.

A-freakin'-men.

Please! Stop hyping NEW outside producers. Specially Rubin. Mostly everybody fails at producing these guys. Lynne worked with Brian already, and -as McParland put it- had Brian doing ELO.

TLOS is great. But don't forget that many of its songs are retrieved and expanded ditties from old days; that the transitions are Darian's; and how come people have forgotten so soon about the COMPRESSION issues? Back in the day the CD was backlashed because of it.

To each their own, but I'd think twice before putting it so easily above TWGMTR.

As far as vocals go, there's no question that Al in particular improved That's Why God Made The Radio no end, but I'm talking about songwriting and (especially) production more than performance. That Lucky Old Sun isn't slathered in so much autotune it makes the vocals sound like they're coming from robots, and doesn't have some of the horrible over-clean instrumental sounds that That's Why God Made The Radio does (worst example, that single drum beat going into the end section of the title track, or the crunchy guitar on the "making this night a celebration" section).

As for songwriting -- there's some good stuff on That's Why God Made The Radio, but even the best material is let down by somewhat trite lyrics, and the worst (Spring Vacation, Beaches In Mind) is downright horribly bad. I'll admit my tastes don't line up perfectly with most people on this board on this -- I find Summer's Gone an almost unlistenable dirge, for example (though the backing track, sans vocals, is more impressive) while I think The Private Life Of Bill And Sue is one of the best things on the album. But to my mind I'd only rate five songs (Bill And Sue, Shelter, Strange World, Isn't It Time, From There To Back Again) on the album as even up to the average level of That Lucky Old Sun, and I'd take the best material from that album (Live Let Live, Good Kinda Love, a few others) over any of them. That Lucky Old Sun has, to my ears, nothing on it that's less than 'pretty good', while very little on That's Why God Made The Radio rises past that level, in songwriting terms.

That's Why God Made The Radio isn't a *bad* album, by any means -- and it's grown on me a lot -- but I'd be lying if I said I thought it was actually a *good* album either, except by the massively lowered standards of Beach Boys product post-Love You (other than LA it's definitely the best released album under the Beach Boys name in my lifetime). Whereas I honestly think that That Lucky Old Sun is a minor masterpiece -- not perhaps on the level of Smile or Pet Sounds but not an album it's laughable to hold up against them, either.

I don't particularly care who did what, or when the songs were written, just the quality of the end result. Remember that many of the songs from That's Why God Made The Radio were from 1998, and that, for example, the chord sequence to Think About The Days or the chorus to The Private Life Of Bill And Sue were written by Joe Thomas. Brian's always worked with collaborators, and always dug up and reworked older material.

As for the overuse of compression on the CD, it's not something I've ever complained about myself, and quite possibly the other people who prefer That Lucky Old Sun to That's Why God Made The Radio are also not the same people who complained about it. But it's also perfectly possible that they think the compression is problematic on the CD, but that one single bad choice at the mastering stage is less of a problem than a lot of bad choices in the writing and recording stages.

Saying that That Lucky Old Sun is a better album than That's Why God Made The Radio doesn't mean saying that the former is perfect and could not be bettered, or that the latter is utterly worthless, just that the former is a better album.

This is very true, but I think he has come quite a way as a producer since then, did you hear his work on Regina Spektor's "Far" or Tom Petty's "Highway Companion" album?, if he done a job like that I think it could make for a very nice record.

I only mentioned Rick Rubin since the topic was discussing the pros and cons of those involved in helping Brian -- i.e. Joe Thomas, Darien etc.

A horrible choice?  Come on.   I know nothing about the process that he uses -- but if it's hands off and direct... I don't see that as bad.  Might that not be good at pushing the band?  I know the Beach Boys wouldn't subject themselves to that... but that's more their problem, than mine. 

I don't know how Brain and "The Boys" work, nor how Rick Rubin works.  I just know the results.  I listen to the results... the records.  Rubin has a nice raw, focused, DRY sound.  And to those complaining about TWGMTR's over-produced/auto-tuned vocals... Rubin's  dry sound came to mind.  He really focused the Chili Peppers sound, which was also getting slick, bloated and unfocused.  I'm sure it would be AWESOME to hear a Rick Rubin produced Beach Boys album.  He would give it some teeth.  Some edge.  And I don't buy that Rubin couldn't work with them.  He's pretty experienced at working with artists.  It's his job.  He could find a way.

I don't know... whatever.   :smokin

I thought TLOS was forced  in places as yet another "Brian has had a hard life and feel sorry for him" album statement from people around Brian. TWGMTR was Brian making his true comeback and having the last 3 songs pick up where "Til I die" left off in 1971.

Agree with SmileBrian.  I never listen to any solo work by Brian. Loving Postcard from California and "I think about you often" and "POB."
Drivin, by the way, on PFC is better than BIM; why?  Dave's solo is louder. Don't fetishize the master Brian's art as the only art. Al, Bruce, Mike, and Dave can write some good songs.

Don't get wrong though, songs like "good kind of love" are great personal statements from Brian.

While Brian's vocals were far less obviously processed in terms of tuning and reverb on TLOS, I would not be at all surprised if they were heavily compressed in the mix (forget any mastering compression).  For me personally, the dry and compressed sound produced a slightly overly aggressive and brash sounding final product (I fully accept that this is what they were going for).

While the vocals on TWGMTR are a little over processed in terms of artificial tuning, they do have the sweetness that I feel is lacking on TLOS (in spite of Brian's rather good performance).  As others have mentioned, the vocal sound of BWRG and ITKOD might be a happy medium.

I am quite a fan of some of the instrumental arrangements and production on TLOS however (although they again are a little dry sounding for my taste).

Agree that the 'emotional' songs on TWGMTR are perhaps more moving than those of TLOS (although I do like the verses and chorus of Southern California a lot).

Odd that Mark wasn't involved with TWGMTR, although the mastering was done by the same guy that has done nearly all of Brian's recent releases if I'm not mistaken (Bob Ludwig).

Not convinced that Rick Rubin would be well suited to the BW/BB game (maybe he'd do a cool job with stuff like Isn't It Time, less so stuff like From There To Back Again).

Then let them. As I said before, I don't care who does what, so long as the finished result is good.
But I've seen very little evidence of your claim. Mike's work has been mediocre *at best* since Still Cruisin' at the latest -- and I'd argue since long before. He does have a track record of being able to write commercial lyrics, but his work in the last twenty-five-plus years hasn't really demonstrated it.
Bruce has the ability to write good stuff, but has never really chosen to use it for the Beach Boys, with one or two notable exceptions.
Al has never been much of a songwriter -- most of his stuff is incredibly derivative, and he writes very little. I enjoyed his solo album, but half of it is covers and remakes, and the other half might as well be.
And as for Dave -- I find his solo stuff literally unlistenable because of the production, so I can't comment on his songwriting. And while I'm glad that he's been able to rejoin the band and finally get some reparation for the horrible way he was treated, and agree he adds a lot to the stage shows, he's had little or no input into any of the music I love the Beach Boys for (I basically don't ever listen to the pre-All Summer Long albums). He's a good guitarist, and has a very good stage presence, but as a listener I honestly couldn't care less if he has any involvement with any future album (though again I hope he does just from the point of view of rectifying an injustice done to someone who seems a genuinely nice person).

What I want is to hear more great music -- I don't really care who it is who does what to make that great music. Brian has written maybe as many as a hundred of my very favourite songs, and hundreds more good or okay ones. The other four between them have written, without the help of Brian or his brothers, *maybe* as many as ten songs I'd miss if I never heard them again. I absolutely think that if Dave, say, writes a song as good as God Only Knows, it should be on any future album. But I also think that the material for a new album, were there to be one, should be decided on merit, and just purely statistically the chances are that if the surviving Beach Boys were to record ,say, thirty new tracks, and say the ten best were chosen, at least nine of those ten would be Brian songs.

Drivin' *is* better than Beaches In Mind, incidentally -- you're quite correct there. Though I could do without the middle eight with all the references to other songs...

It's all the same, really. The "Brian's had a hard life" syndrome you speak of is still there in the suite, but in the form of, "have him write melancholic, depressing songs that envoke the Pet Sounds and SMiLE sound". Not that I'm complaining....

True. The "happy days are here again" topic became stale by then. TWGMTR is a much less contrived album topic-wise. BW's solo efforts of recent vintage sounded like "Brian doing Brian", and that is because his collaborators filled in the blanks with their own brand of BW pastiche. Thomas did not do that, like it or not.

I am not either man ;D I just feel like parts of the TWGMTR suite  like summer's gone were a more personal statement about the past in my opinion. I would rather have Brian lead the way than Mike being trapped in the endless summer.

A Rick Rubin/Beach Boys album would never see completion. The key to producing the Beach Boys is the ability to complete a project with bloodshed or lawsuits, and for whatver reason Joe Thomas has been able to do that twice. With Love's apparent distaste for some of those in Brian's camp (I take that only from Ambha's comments post tour) I think we can rule out any of his band members producing an album. Also, add me to the list that found much of teh material on TWGMTR more compelling and honest than that on TLOS (i.e., the closing suite vs. . Southern California/MAD--although it is really splitting hairs).

Words of a wise, wise man.

Not trying to question ESQ here, nor am I trying to phil the thread with dispair, but just curious:

Can you elaborate a little here?  Is this talk of a new album based on fact or wishful thinking?

Yeah. It's weird to see this after Andrew G. Doe said the opposite.

Looking back, I *think* AGD has just ruled out the possibility of a new tour, not of a new album. And both AGD and David Beard are usually right, but both have been wrong before.

My own gut feeling is it won't happen, but I'd be *very* interested to know who's been saying what to whom (though totally understand that things like that can't be made public), and David's certainty on the matter has raised my estimate of its probability significantly.

Any reports about Brian being in the lab the past few months? Been pretty quiet from his side, apart from that Christmas show he did with Al.

If I recall correctly, wasn't Amba's comments directed towards his management people? Personally, from the first comments from the group when TWGMTR came out, I always believed that their would be another album. I'm sure David would not of announced it here, if we was not reasonably sure of it. With the doldrum of Winter starting to kick in, this news gives me something good to look forward to this Summer.

I think it could be weird but interesting if Steve Fisk produced The Beach Boys but maybe that's just because I dig his work on Beat Happening's Jamboree and Black Candy...

Follow the money. Again, I'd be looking at Capitol Records.

One thing we already know is that it's already the middle of January, so forget a summer release. The best case scenario would be a Christmas release. Hey, how about a Christmas album? :o

Without going back looking at the threads, wasn't a lot of TWGMTR done after February 2012 for the June release?

Also the mention some time back about a 3 album deal with Capitol. That could be TWGMTR, C50 Live and now a new 2013 release right?

I'm totally with you here, Andrew. I'm all for the other guys bringing stuff to the table, and it should be included if it's of high quality. But chances are they aren't gonna come up with the goods. And Brian more likely will. And I think they are ok with that. I'm sure maybe Al would like a song or two per album and maybe Bruce woulda liked a spot but I doubt it's a big deal.

And I gotta say I don't understand the obsession with David Marks and "Stowaway". When I saw the group last year it was great to see all of them (including Dave) and it's neat that he's on the latest album. But lets face the facts, he has no writing credits in 50 years of Beach Boys releases, so why start now? I honestly have no interest in mellow blues rock coming from a former teenage star on a new Beach Boys album. I'm sure he's a wonderful guy, but as far as The Beach Boys go, gimme more Brian, more Al, more Bruce, even more Mike. Dave can be there doing his thing, but he was never a front liner. It's not fetishizing Brian's work to want more of it. It's that we know the man is more likely to come up with the goods than the others. There's a reason most of us look most forward to Brian and Dennis songs: more often than not these guys put out great work. Lots and lots of people agree.

That's probably because Brian's vocals on TLOS were his best in a long long time. A friend of mine - who is rather unbiased as he's not a BB fan and whom I always torture with new BW stuff - said at the time that Brian was singing very good there "for a change". :wink

Brian's vocals on TWGMTR aren't bad either (except the mumbled first verse of Isn't It Time) but maybe the autotune did take some emotion out of it after all. They are IMHO not better than on TLOS.

The songwriting is about equal, I think. "Summer's Gone" is as spectacular as "Midnight's another Day", and both albums have low points, though TLOS has no song that makes me cringe like "Bill And Sue". TWGMTR's great asset are the BBs...


Ha, that opinion is the absolute opposite of mine! :-D I think The Private Life Of Bill And Sue is the worst BW song ever released, and Summer's Gone is up to par with Pet Sounds! (Then again, my opinion ain't the absolute truth either of course.)

And I think Summer's Gone and Bill And Sue are both great and I love how varied Brian's songs are in terms of both mood and theme. Isn't that CA-RAAAAAAZY?

Agreed with sweetdudejim about David Marks, great live guitarist and person, but he is really an after thought in the full 50 year BBs story. David was nowhere near the group's greatest albums, and lets be honest, he didn't do much beside rhythm guitar and never fitting in the vocal blend. Murry screwed him for sure, but overrating him isn't the answer either.

To be fair, most people would consider the work he is on to be among their greatest.

Agreed about that with the early singles, he just wasn't there when the group was at the 1964 to 1967 peak.

I am going to go back to the University to teach, and when I get home and turn on the computer again, I am going to hope that the comments diminishing the accomplishment, artistry, and current contributions of David Marks were just some sort of illusion or technical glitch. If that is not so, then in the future please, those of you holding these beliefs,  put some epigrammatic warning at the head of your message,  such as "the following comments will be utterly devoid of aesthetic and scholarly merit," so that I, and other refined critical thinkers, can discard them quickly.

Nobody has diminished any of those things one iota. It's simply a fact that David Marks has never written a song for a Beach Boys album, and so there's no particular reason why anyone who likes the Beach Boys' songs should enjoy his songwriting. Likewise, it's simply a fact that on most of the work that is generally regarded as the band's best -- albums like Smile, Pet Sounds, Sunflower, singles like Good Vibrations, I Get Around, California Girls -- David Marks was not a member of the band at all.

Everybody has emphasised how good he is as a live guitarist -- and he is -- and that they're glad to see him back in the band. I was extremely glad to see him with Mike & Bruce in 2008, and thought he added a lot to that show (rather less to the 2012 shows, actually, but he was still a welcome addition), and I would be glad to see him performing with any or all of the others in future shows.

But while David's guitar playing may well have played an important role in the band's early success, he played no role whatsoever in any of the music that actually made me (or, apparently, several of the other people here) Beach Boys fans (with one exception -- he played on In My Room). He has no track record as a songwriter for the band. It is not diminishing his accomplishments to make those simple, factual statements.

And I will gladly put such a header on my own posts, as soon as you start heading your own posts with "I have no respect for the right of others to have an opinion that differs from mine, and I believe my own flawed aesthetic judgements to have greater epistemic status than facts. Due to this overinflated view of myself and my opinions, I feel free to insult and disparage those who disagree with me."

Deal?

I don't want this to sound like a math equation, but...

I figure that Mike Love, over the last 50 years, has at least 50 songs written, demoed, and in the can. Maybe Bruce also has 50. Same with David Marks. Maybe Al has 3. :P

I have to think that you could take the single best song of the lot from each guy, and it would be at least as good, if not better, than the worst that Brian is bringing to the table. "Daybreak Over The Ocean" is a good example of this, although I thought they could've picked a better Mike song. "The Private Life Of Bill And Sue" and "Beaches In Mind" are OK, but do you think Bruce and/or David didn't have one song - one song! - that couldn't rival those two. I do.

Maybe they (Bruce, David, and Al) could even give Brian a credit to keep his wifeandmanagers happy.

The only song we know of that Bruce brought in for That's Why God Made The Radio was She Believes In Love Again, which has already been released. The only song we know of that Al brought in was Waves Of Love, which has already been released and is also not very good. From this (and the fact that Al didn't have enough unreleased songs to fill up his solo album), we can guess that the chances are that neither of them had anything much.

Mike... well, we've heard his unreleased solo albums. It's possible he has some good stuff, but I doubt it.

And David... I've just listened, again, to I Think About You Often, just to be absolutely sure that I wasn't dismissing him out of hand. There's nothing on there that's even remotely interesting, from a songwriting perspective. It's generic blues-rock without any originality whatsoever.

So as I've said before, I'm almost certain that if you took the best ten songs that any of the band had, judged purely on their merits, at least nine would be by Brian, though I'm more than happy to be proved wrong.

Here's an idea.  ::) Maybe the Boys can get together and write a few new songs with all members making some contribution. The success of C50 would certainly provide the inspiration.

The solo material could be re-worked. I think the fans would want to see a few songs from Al/David/Mike/Bruce.

By the way, will this be the 'Rock 'n Roll' album?  If so, it should be great!  :pirate

Again, it's great that David has fan appreciation after years of bad luck and hard times, but he really didn't much while in the group and he was invisible on the early BBs albums.

You may be in for a world of hurt for that.

*ducks for cover*

Yeah, it was perplexing that Bruce submitted "She Believes In Love Again" to be re-done for such an important NEW album. If that was the only song he submitted, shame on him. But, it still raises the question, for me anyway. Was that the ONLY song he submitted and, more importantly, is that the best song he had/has available. You would think he'd have some nice, emotional ballad sitting around, waiting for The Beach Boys' touch.

Honestly, I'm not familiar enough with David's repertoire to suggest a specific song. But, I mean, just one song?

As far as Al goes, we did some have good debates about the merits of "Waves Of Love", "Don't Fight The Sea", and others of his a year ago. I guess it's a matter of opinion as to the worthiness of his songs. But, like Dave, maybe just one song (!), even a new song or a collaboration in the studio while recording? Just my two cents...again.

they need steve albini or nick cave to produce the next album. as of late (i mean since the late 70's) the vocal harmonies are too synthetic sounding. they need sh*t to pummel and sound grizzled.

Andrew, Reading posts like yours is why I feel so happy to be a part of this list. I really love you guys, I have to say. We remind me of the 19th-century Philologists who would spar with each other over historical and linguistic change as if the survival of the universe depended on it.                  
I can only hope that the energy we are generating will carry over to the BB as they compose the new album that we keep hoping for. I have another class to teach, so more later. And sincere thanks for the playful fellowship; I never knew that strangers could be so big a part of one's delight and that a message board could be such a comforting, humane place to be. I suppose it's a bit like that show Cheers, but no one knows your name , while they know your rhetorical style and critical beliefs. I hope you pardon my sentimentality, but I mean it.

Re TWGMTR:


Me, too. I like at least parts of every BW solo album, and (I think unlike you) I really like TLOS. But one of the most refreshing things about this new album was that it was just an album. We can all rhapsodize about the closing songs' suite, but part of what makes me love that last group of tunes (the first two of which I think are far better than the third, btw) are the songs that come before them. Isn't It Time, especially, but several of the tunes kept the album flowing and enjoyable without trying to shoehorn yet another concept.

Whatever the band does next, whatever instrumentalists, singers or producers they employ, I just hope they record the songs they have and want to record without bowing to pressure to make anything more than a record. No pretensions of high art are necessary: good pop or rock music is already high art as it is.

I started this topic to generate excitement and critical exploration of the possible dimensions of art that we might see from the BB on this , still chimerical album.  I think we have been dynamically successful in exploring that so far, and we are ready to explore in detail the art and musicality (and the personal, BB politics) of whatever we wind up getting. I myself can debate in a vacuum no longer.  As for the "other" BB: many recall great home runs in history but not always those who were on base, whose roles, though lesser, are part of the history of triumph.  Recall that the BB did DIA and Brian told Mike he wanted "Dave's energy" on the track; to me that is touching and profound, and, as I have said before, "Dave's energy," broadly manifested, has made the reunion for me. I hope it finds its rightful place on the album.

Gabe Roth !

or Nigel Godrich. or the guy from Toe Rag.

Say it again, while a new album is always possible, I personally don't want to see one: everything aligned for TWGMTR and while far from perfect, it was easily 1000% better than I was reasonably expecting. I don't see that happening twice in a row. A lot of the best tracks had history, and I'd much rather remember it as twilight's last gleaming as opposed to the 2nd last album preceding a half-assed farewell that satisfied no-one. So I'm greedy: hate me. I love this band and for once, they did it something close to right.

Appreciate what you're saying. But I hope lightning can strike twice (or that I win the lotto twice… even once!).

Imo I think the Beach Boys as a whole must be one of the least proficient bands out there of such fame when it comes to songwriting material. Brian wrote very much, but these other guys have just been jumping on the band wagon for 50 years. Al is a professional musician, yet he writes close to no material despite being perfectly capable of making some great tunes. Are they really just lazy? Bruce too? Did the endless touring of the 80's turn them off songwriting? why did they write so little in the 70's?

Doesn't mean they're lazy. Songwriting and musical performance are two very different skills, and there's no reason at all to think that being good at one means you'll be good at the other. There are plenty of people who are very, very good performers who have little or no songwriting ability (for example Sinatra, Elvis, Aretha Franklin) or whose songwriting ability is much lower than their other skills. And equally, there are many great songwriters who have poor or nonexistent instrumental or vocal skills (you don't hear about those so much these days because there's an expectation that songwriters will perform their own material, but for example I have a recording of Kurt Weill and Ira Gershwin performing some of their songs together. No-one could argue that they weren't great songwriters, but it's very far from the best performance I've ever heard).

Division of labour is not bandwagon-jumping or lazy. If the Beach Boys were lazy people they'd have played *far* fewer shows than they did/do every year.

I respect you quite a bit Andrew. But I can't get on board with this way of thinking. If Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, and Dave are still active, why not have them together making new music. Some of it might be not so great. But who cares? If we got new any new songs as great as uplifting as "Isn't It Time" or as powerful as "From There To Back Again" then its worth it. Honestly, if we get anything like the quirky "Private Life of Bill and Sue" I'll be happy. Its Brian Wilson with Mike Love and Al Jardine. It's pretty much worked for the past 50 years, why wouldn't it work again?

If they release a new album in 2013, I think my head will collapse in on itself from excitement. So for that reason, the prudent thing for me to do would be to root AGAINST a new release. I have kids, man!

Seriously though, I don't care what the songs sound like, who's playing, or who's producing, so long as we have Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce and (maybe) David's vocals and the songs are written or co-written by a Beach Boy. I mean, yeah, in an ideal world, I like the notion of a Sunflower-type record. But they're over 70 for God's sake, and we already got in 2012 way more than we possibly had any right to expect. At this point, I'll take almost anything I can get from them and will love it. Guaranteed.

Interesting...  I'm familiar with Nigel Godrich from all the albums he produced for Beck.  I think that's a fantastic idea.  Godrich has a way of making the music sound immediate, a little glossy and simple sounding at first, but there's always a lot more going on in -- revealing itself over time.

Nigel Godrich/Beach Boys = a fully rich, deep and somewhat introspective album -- yet still an accessible and pleasant album, with high replay value... as well as the potential to add in NEW sounds and technology!!  :o

Rick Rubin/Beach Boys = a stark, edgy and honestly raw album... black and white and very immediate, with a lot of tightly focused, honest detail.  Bye, bye bloat -- hello lean and mean.  

I think either one of those options would be a fascinating view of the Beach Boys... and pleasant change.  I'm f*$%ing ready for it!!!  As of now... I don't expect anything "interesting" from a Beach Boys production.  Sadly.  The songs, the song writing and the contributions we can debate all day... but the production has become relatively predictable.  They need to mix it up.

There I said it.   ;D

Aretha cowrote some of her greatest recordings.

Seems like they've been going for the big, slick, mainstream AC/MOR sound since my parents were in high school. Not counting solo records, we haven't had a raw and/or organic sounding Beach Boys album since Love You. IMO Postcard from California sounds better than TWGMTR. (And even has a couple of better songs. I've even made a playlist with DFTS, California Feeling, Looking Down the Coast, Drivin', and Waves of Love-plus I Sail Away, 10000 Years, and Glow Crescent Glow-augmenting TWGMTR, even replacing Spring Vacation, Beaches in Mind, and the title track.)

I was possibly over-hasty saying she had little or no songwriting ability, but she only wrote or co-wrote a couple of songs per album, and I'd argue that if she'd never written and recorded Daydreamin', Rock Steady, Call Me or Think (for example -- to take some of the most successful songs she wrote) her artistic reputation and career would be pretty much the same as it is now, while if she'd not recorded, say, Respect, I Say A Little Prayer, Chain Of Fools or Natural Woman, it would be much diminished.

Yeah, that's why I said greatest, not most popular. The best song she cowrote was Dr. Feelgood, possibly the most intense, fiery performance she ever gave. The best of the hits she cowrote was the blazingly funky (Since You've Been Gone) Sweet Sweet Baby.

 I've never really paid any attention to Aretha other than her hits, certainly not enough to know she has co-writing credits; but is it possible that , as with  Elvis, Spector, some others probably, that she gets the writing credit so the songs can be recorded by her and released?  Half of something  Aretha, is a lot better than all of a song that never gets played at all

No. Aretha is not just a singer, she is also a great musician. Her very distinctive piano sound is the bedrock of all her recordings. She worked with lyricists.

In terms of writing, I would feel much better about TWGMTR as a final BB album if Mike and even Al and Bruce, had co-written the final three songs. What a renaissance of lyrical prowess it would have been for Mike to have written Summer's Gone. That he did not must be personally unsatisfying for him as well. The status of the song/album as a "final statement" would be much stronger if that were a BB exclusive composition.  Mike quotes it lovingly in the LA Times. All this is part of why I am such a "what can they still come up with together" advocate.

If Mike had written the lyrics to Summer's Gone, they would have included lyrics about surfing at the beach and at least one lyrical reference to a previous Beach Boys hit.

This makes no sense to me at all, I'm afraid. You seem to be arguing simultaneously that Summer's Gone is good as it is, and yet that the other band members should have messed with it.

If the stuff that Brian's been coming up with with outside collaborators was noticeably weaker than the material he'd been doing with other band members, then I could see the argument -- but I've seen nobody say that Beaches In Mind, Daybreak Over The Ocean and Spring Vacation were among the better tracks on the album. (Isn't It Time is, but I don't think that's particularly down to Mike's lyrics -- or indeed to whatever contribution Brian made).

I actually think the reason That's Why God Made The Radio was as good as it was (and while I'm not a fan of the album, it's still far, far better than I was expecting) is precisely *because* egos seem to have been left outside the recording studio for the most part, and everyone allowed to get on with what they do well -- for Brian, songwriting and arrangement, for Mike, adding the odd lyric and singing, for Al and Bruce singing, and for David playing guitar.

That formula seemed to work pretty well, and as a wise man once said, "don't f*** with the formula"...

No, my friends, you misunderstand me--and quite completely, I am afraid.  I did not say that Mike should have re-written or "messed with" the song but rather that I wish was capable, still, of that kind of artistry.  That is, I wish that he had written SG as it; I wish that it were his and Brian's song.  It would have been satisfying to me to hear that as one in a long series of lovely songs (WOTS, KMB, etc.)  that display Mike and Brian at their best together. Let me put it another way. Summer's Gone is a great song (all three in suite are really), and I wish Mike hadda thunk of it himself.   Best to all.

Well... since you posted in another thread that you "very, very rarely listen to the Beach Boys" ... let me speak for those who listen to the Beach Boys ad nasuem -- and whom drive our significant others batty with Beach Boys....

While I understand the noble desire to go out on a high note -- I want more!

To me, TWGMTR, represented -- if nothing -- a promising start.  It showed me they could do it.  I saw TWGMTR, not as a finale, but as the beginning of their autumn years.  I mean, they f*cked around for years!!... since Dennis died!!  Just a few dribbles here and there.  Brian, who everyone thought was a goner, cranked out album after album (eventually) -- while the Beach Boys, whomever was left driving the boat, became amusement park fodder (at worst).

So ... I disagree.  I hope this is just the beginning.

I would love another album, but feel you are very likely correct. I've noticed a lot more comments about TWGMTR being just OK as of late. I feel people are not on the same planet as me. I just listened to it a week or two ago, after a long break, and it is great on many levels. Strange World gets better and better for me. The suite is outstanding. These are 70 year old men here. If Brian and company could have just turned out great stuff because "it's Brian and the boys" over the last 30 years don't you think they would have?

Not saying they can't or won't try.......but TWGMTR, the tour and all the rest was already a dream come true.

Yes, Amen beanbag; you are on holy fire. That is just how I see it.

woooooooooohooooooooo!!!!!

Alongside their glory, the band will always be remembered for their monumental fuckups, missed opportunities and everything of the sort, TWGMTR hasn't erased three and a half decades worth of missteps. For that reason, I doubt if they do end on a half-assed farewell it would affect their legacy/anyone would really care in the long run, I mean, it's not like they're trying to maintain a perfect discography. I'm even greedier than you are Andrew, I say if there's a chance we can get more great music out of this band, fantastic, I'm ready for it, even if there's a chance it could be Skrillex Reimagines Wrinkles ft. The Beach Boys.

I'm convinced that another album would be warmly received by the fans (as well as many pop journalists) simply because I believe Brian has hit his stride in the past 8 years. You only have to listen to the Bacharach experiment, the TLOS outtakes ala Message Man etc. to determine that that flow led to the quality of TWGMTR.

Having said that, unfortunately the whole corporate nature of BRI is about as convenient as parallel parking a Buick; every full-on BAND release would need the proper amount of marketing and yeah, touring to do it proper. We most certainly saw that in 2012.

A noble question; would you be disappointed to hear a new Beach Boys album as emotionally satisfying (and yes, rocking) as TLOS which only hits the mid forties on Billboard? That's the new reality in today's marketplace. Asking them to reconfigure for a new set of big band tours (while satisfying to us) may be asking a lot of the boys. And THAT is why recording a new album is tricky for me. Not the album per say (it'll be killer) but all the bells and whistles that have to go into it.

Speaking as a selfish fan, I'm comfortable with a rocking album that doesn't necessarily set the charts on fire. In our own personal top ten, it'll be just fine. And what's wrong with that? I'd like to know...'cause here (they) go...again!

In my opinion, there are two main reasons why I don't view TWGMTR as being the end of the Beach Boys' recording career. Nor should it be.

First, did you or do you now expect The Beach Boys - when they as individuals reached age 70 - to call it a (recording) career? I know it's a cliche', but these days 70 is the new 60, or maybe the new 55. There are many artists who are breaking new ground in this area - Simon & Garfunkel, Clapton, The Stones, Dylan, McCartney, soon Neil Young, Elton John, and Stevie Wonder - and the list goes on. Other than Brian, who is unquestionably the key to any further recording, the guys are healthy, and have proven as recently as last year that they can still do it at a respectable level. While they may be close, and they're certainly getting there, I wouldn't characterize them yet as simply "hanging on".

Secondly, Brian has been fortunate, with the help of his wifeandmanagers, to surround himself with people who have SIGNIFICANTLY helped him in continuing his career, and his life. Without Jeff and Darian, there is no way he could've had the solo career he did, both on tour and in the studio. Brian now has an emotionally supportive wife and family which can assist in coping with other stresses. Apparently Brian's team of doctors and new medications are effective in helping him cope with his illness and addictions. Maybe Brian also came across a combination in the studio that can assist in producing albums the quality of a TWGMTR. Few people have been as critical as me in questioning HOW MUCH Brian actually contributes to his recordings, but TWGMTR (of which I still have some of those doubts) SOUNDS like it works. It took Brian this long to finally get to this place, why stop now...

So, hey, I say, health permitting, if they wanna do more stuff together, go for it!

I think a TLOS-esque album with the name "The Beach Boys" slapped on the front would be a top 5 album....even if it weren't, I'd still love it: I'd love songs that had great transitions (even if they weren't written by Brian), songs that had meaning, a cohesive theme that binds it all together.

It would be amazing (and would probably garner a lot of press) if they tried to tackle this album with mid-60s wall-of-sound techniques. All the players in one room recording to a 4 track analog machine. I'd love to hear a modern album that sounded vintage 60s again....and who better to try this than The Beach Boys?

And perhaps they'd only have to do a few shows in select cities to promote the album. The Beach Boys with Brian Wilson is still a huge thing - even if they only did 5 shows it would still grab a lot of attention.

It's amusing how Mike would like a bigger role in future albums, well he didn't exactly show his writing capabilities on TWGMTR did he?

A few songs about beaches, spring vacations and Oceans. His contributions were nice considering the whole theme of the 50th Celebration was about the past and looking back but if he brings those kind of songs to anything new were looking at Summer in Paradise part 2.

Great idea rab, build a replica of western studios as well!!! :hat

Mike couldn't write a song without beach references or song titles if his life depended on it.

At this stage that seems to be the case...sadly.

This is the guy who wrote the lyrics to the "Wild Honey" album, lyrically one of the coolest records of all time , not to mention a bunch of other classics the never mention the beach.

What the hell happened

*sigh* Endless Summer convinced him to relive past glories with "SIP" as a result.

:rock :lol

Disney can build it so the studio can have robotic replicas of the wrecking crew made by the imageneers. ;D

YES! Complete with sprinkler systems and life-alert...because you really never know when Brian is going to have the urge to light a raging fire in a garbage can ;D

Speaking of old themes, I wonder how successful TLOS would have been as a Beach Boys album. Mike may have been able to write some of the lyrics just as well such as Southern California. Van Dykes lyrics are not too abstract either. It did very well as a BW solo album, but imagine the Beach Boys singing and playing on it!

That plus a good mixing job, it really would have been more popular than it was! That's why I really hope this next album carries on that spirit of TLOS creativity (but adds the vocals and talents of the other Beach Boys)...it really could be a eye-opening album.

I often listened to TLOS (and most latter-day BW solo stuff) with the 15 Big Ones/Love You era Beach Boys in mind.  I can totally hear (in my mind) Dennis taking a line or two... Carl adding some soul, Brian's late 70's gruff and emotional delivery, Mike's smooth bass notes and Airplane-style sensitive leads, and Al's "honkin' down the highway" vocals (actually his voice is still rock solid!!!).  It really makes me realize how good the TLOS - or other solo material actually is... Something about imaging the 70's Beach Boys performing it adds validity to me.  ???  The 60s or early 70s Beach Boys don't fit the material, usually.

As much it works... it's also quite frustrating and sad.  It's sad that they didn't record more during the 70s.  TLOS would have been fantastic sandwiched between Love You and MIU.  And sad, because I really miss Denny and Carl.  :'(

Brian-Alert would have worked wonders in the 1970s :lol :lol :lol

Am I right in believing you mean the exact opposite of what you've written? Actually you wrote that you think Bruce and Dave did not have one song to rival TPLOBAS. I'm sure they did.

Sorry if this seems nitpicky.

Just to clarify, I do believe that Bruce and David have at least one song in their cache that would rival the "worst" song(s) that Brian would bring to the table. I'm not totally familiar with their catalogue, though I do think that, after composing for 50 years, Bruce and David might have one ace in their hand that hasn't been played or developed yet. After listening to Postcards From California, I am not as optimistic about Al, but I'd still at least give his songs a listen.

I also based my opinion on "The Private Life Of Bill And Sue" and "Beaches In Mind". Those two are pleasant enough, but I expected more from Brian. Actually, TPLOBAS is a re-write of "South American", and not as good.

Finally, I was also promoting more of a shared effort with the songwriting (a la Sunflower, Surf's Up, and Holland), but I totally understand the position of using the best songs, no matter who wrote 'em. I would never sacrifice a song just to satisfy a math equation.

I wonder where is the most likely and reliable place to hear of any new announcements about a new album/tour/release of the live album/the MIC boxed set. Thebeachboys.com?  A random interview?  A leak?

I would know to come "here" to our board, but what's the official source we are all waiting for on all these pending matters?

Seems like the BB (and respective individual) Facebook is the first break news.

Has anyone heard anything. . . . . .?
The BB tend to come at us like a stray wave, so I don't know what to expect, but if there was any truth to "we will get back in the studio after the new year," then it's time someone said something. I don't care (in the sense of being disappointed) who plays what shows this year, and I celebrate any solo albums, etc., but history demands that the 5-man current BB make their own, new album together and show us what they can do. I have said this many times, many ways, as many of you have too. It's time we heard something, a leak, etc.

We'll totally let you know.

I am surprised that David Beard hasn't kept us abreast since his declaration that a new album is in the works for this year. ;)

I know Mr. Beard said that there will be a new studio album in 2013, but it really just doesn't seem like they are gonna be working on something like that this year. I suppose best case scenario is Brian works up a few new tunes with his group (and maybe Al and Dave) and then Mike and Bruce come join in when they are done with touring. Add to that some of the stuff that worked on in 2012, and voila, a new studio album. However, who knows??

At this point I'd be happy to finally get Made In California. If a new studio album comes along then I'll be over the moon. But I'm not expecting anything.

"By agreement we came together, but the 50th anniversary was always the term to it – anno, meaning 'year'"

Mike in Uncut magazine, quoted from the thread on that.

Other than David Beard's brief statement in this thread, I've not seen anyone who would know saying anything that might give any hope at all for a new album, and a lot to indicate it's not happening.

If Capitol decides "yes" on it and comes up with the money, it'll happen. If Capitol comes up with the money and wants it out for Christmas, it'll be out for Christmas. Follow Capitol and the money.

Thank you, most kind and loyal members for yous wise and supportive responses. I know I am a bit like an aged troll keeping a small flame alive at some obscure, craggy mountain pass that no one ever uses, but I feel that attending to the issue of the album sends positive energy its way.  I think they underestimate just how great they can be.

more soon, I hope. 

Maybe.  But you could very well be underestimating just how lousy it could be as well.  I'd welcome another album if they all seemed to be into it enough.  But no point in forcing it on them.  We don't need another M.I.U. Album, do we? 

2012 was a magical year - excellent new album, stunning C50 shows and a huge dollop of critical acclaim. Everything aligned, all the dots were joined. Anyone here really think that's going to happen again, and without the impetus of the anniversary ? Seriously ?

In studio, yes I do. Live? If Brian's as motivated as he was last year then possibly.

No.

The only successful albums that the group have had during the wilderness years have been tied to a gimmick (Brian's Back or including the song from Cocktail). I'm sure that the band and record company are well aware that any new album not tied to an anniversary would be unlikely to do half as well.

Not all three things you mentioned, no. Especially not shows. But who knows, maybe the new box will make them want to do more stuff and meet up in the studio.

Anyway, I think I know what a new album would be called...

SUMMER'S BACK!!!

I'm just gonna assume The Beach Boys are your favorite group Andrew. Maybe I'm wrong.

But I gotta ask why you wouldn't want your favorite group to possibly make new music. They are still alive and doing well. If they made 12 new songs, and only one was good, it would still be worth it, because it would be great new music from my favorite group. I don't understand the point of wishing against something you love.

On the other hand, I don't think that the group particularly owes us anything. Although the the box set has already been announced, so I am expecting that. But beyond that, anything else that Brian and/or the group does is gravy.

It's wishing against it because he loves it. I feel the same way as AGD on this.

They could probably make a BETTER album than TWGMTR, lets face it. It's not exactly genius all the way through, would like to see them take another stab with the weight of expectations lifted a bit.

So you'd rather them not even try? By that kinda reasoning, maybe they should have never followed up Pet Sounds, cuz gosh, what a high point to go out on. Or Bob Dylan shoulda quit after Blonde On Blonde, because you know he's gonna make Down In The Groove at some point.

I understand that they could put out a totally uninspired, embarrassing effort as a new album. But it could always be great. I'd rather have them work together with the chance of something good happening, rather then have no chance of great new Beach Boys work.

I'd like to see what all the guys could do together minus Joe Thomas and Bon Jovi

I agree with much of this analysis and with the hopes and expectations that we might see a great album , tempered by the fear that it might be a very very disappointing 1. I have no problem with Bon Jovi who wrote some wonderful lyrics. all the Jersey Boys here will understand his ability to capture the beach in winter. as I have said before, I want to see the 5 Beach Boys working creatively together

True, but Brian was struggling with addictions during most of that time. He's been off of hard drugs since 1983 (and I think off marijuana since the second Landy era ended) so that's not an issue.  BB85 had a Brian who was under Landy's clutches; Still Cruisin' was less an album and more of a compilation with a few new songs; SIP was a Mike Love solo album featuring Carl and occasionally Bruce and Al; S&S was a tribute album featuring the band. TWGMTR was the first 'true' album since BB85, and even that started off as a BW solo project. I loved it, but I think a followup could be just as good if not better.

A new album could certainly do just as well - it just needs to be promoted properly - and they would need to clinch QVC again.

Billy, how did you get to be so gosh-darned smart? 5 BB in the studio, playing, talking, eating cheeseburgers, writing, singing. . . . endless harmony.  No JT, no out of town hired guns, no recording at "other" studios; no more Imagination left overs. And: no songs about idealized summer fun--unless they rock; and no songs about infantile need for shelter (or things related to shelter)--unless they cry.

A lot of Beach Boys fans pledge their undying loyalty...to what they wish the band would do. Rather than what they actually do. Which is funny, because at this point, with 50 years of history, we know how pretty much every scenario turns out in a Beach Boys context.
Be proud of the band and the fact that they managed to turn out a surprisingly excellent record this late in the game. THAT was the best case scenario.

Spaceman, you are a classical physicist, but I know you know quantum mechanics too: let's embrace the uncertainly principle. Of course, with the future unwritten, I share what I would like--we all look to the future with hope and longing. Nothing wrong with that eh? Bottom line: imagine how we would feel, if it fails or not, when we put on a brand new BB album?

best to all.

Frankly, "if it fails or not" makes a huge difference to how I would feel. If it were to be a new Summer In Paradise, I'd feel awful, like I'd wasted my money on something that had only caused me pain. If it was another That's Why God Made The Radio, I'd feel OK, like one does when listening to a quite good album by people who can do better.

To be honest, what I want, but know I'm never going to get (even if I believed there was any chance of a new album, which I don't), is "Jardine Sings Wilson" -- a new album of new Brian Wilson songs, produced in the style of his recent solo stuff (especially That Lucky Old Sun, which I think is a masterpiece), with Al Jardine singing all the leads. Mike and Bruce could do some backing vocals, and Dave could add some guitar, if Brian wanted.

I think the odds against another Summer In Paradise being released are high.  Joe Thomas who probably put together most of TWGMTR, did a pretty good job, and is aware of what was critically praised and what was panned.  He would not want the last Beach Boys album to be an embarassment, and I'm sure that sentiment is shared by the almost all the people on the inside.  I say bring it on, but can't ignore the possibility that they could muff it up badly.

You know, upon reflection, this is a really COOL idea!

Seconded!

Brian is obviously working on something. Which raises the question; will it ever see the light of day, and if so what shape will it take?

Given that he's played some shows since the 50th with David and Al, and they seem to enjoy working together still, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume those guys will be involved in Brian's next project. Mike and Bruce on the other hand, are not exactly safe bets as far as I can tell. The unwillingness to continue touring with Brian and keep the surviving band together, was obviously not an amicable situation. I suppose there is some logic that says that if Mike thought there was a chance of collaborating with Brian on an album, which could generate a lot of profit with the right marketing under the BB's name, he would jump right on board. But who knows if Brian, Al and David even want him involved after what happened.

Weighing all these things it seems that there's at least a chance of a new BW solo album, featuring Al and David, but obviously not under the BBs name, since that's Mike's thing.

Sorry Professor Einstein, I ought not have believed in the uncertainty principle if this is one of the possible results. Help me Ispaceman.  Nothing short of a BB album means anything to me.

Well, a real Beach Boys album is all about definition really. A bit like real professors.

I hate to say it professor, but I can't get on board with that.

So a new Brian Wilson solo album wouldn't mean anything to you? The man is doing some of his best work since at least the '70s. Both That Lucky Old Sun and That's Why God Made The Radio have some of his strongest work in years. So whichever venue his new material comes through, I'll be happily awaiting it.

Why would you want a Beach Boys album that Mike Love and Bruce Johnston had to be pushed into performing on? What would be the point of that? You talk about how the group spreads happiness or whatever, but I don't see how this would spread good vibes. As much as I think Mike is a douchebag for wanting to continue on as "The Beach Boys" without any other original Beach Boys, I feel that if he doesn't wanna do a new Beach Boys album, he has the right not to.

Mike's position of touring looks even worse after the grammy win. I hope they sit down and decide things pretty soon.

Mike needs to comment on a few things..

The man really needs to do an interview

Seems to me like everything's already been decided. Mike & Bruce are touring as the Beach Boys, and that's the decision.

You're right; you are all right, dear friends because you warn that failure, whoever creates it, will disappoint us and that success will please us whatever the line up. No argument. I just want a great BB album--and so do you because who would not want a great BB album? Let's agree to agree and hope for the best.

Have we taken Al's recent comments apart yet?

"Jardine admits, though, that after the big 2012 tour, he’s tired of sitting around the past few months and that he should “get my butt down there [with Brian] and do some stuff with him because he’s got such an inventive mind.”

This seems to mean that he wants to come down here to LA and get in the studio with Brian, but it at once confirms that BW is working alone and not (at least yet explicitly) on a BB record.  Come on home, Al, I say.

I read it, in the context of the article, as Al talking about doing shows, not recording. Either way, he seems to be confirming what's seemed the obvious conclusion to me all along -- Brian's working in the studio on his own, there will be no full band tour this year and there are no concrete plans for any further ones.

Exactly. God, to be of the mindset of, "If it can't be 10/10 brilliant, I don't give a f*** about it," I seriously can't imagine. Come on, guys.

i'm with you runners.

Andrew, that's a justly sober, if enforcedly dour, stance you take, and I will try to emulate it.  The touring means much less to me than a new album, for it is in further creative work that they will write themselves further into eternity, if you can accept the paradox. Thank you for responding. I do wonder if Al is talking about shows, however, given his citation of Brian's "invention," which pertains more to recording, as it were. Perhaps he simply meant that he missed his dear friend and wanted his companionship and collaboration, broadly writ.

Brian, way back when, started to work on his own in the studio and then bring in the Boys to sing. Think it remains to be seen what comes forth.

I see what you mean. For myself, I *desperately* want whatever new Brian music I can get, but I would actually rather they tour, together or separately, than record. Their body of recorded work is already as strong as that of any of their contemporaries, and stronger than most, and there's enough there to listen to for a lifetime and not tire of it, even if they never record another note. But we only have a limited time, sadly, before seeing any of them live becomes an impossibility.
Frankly, given the choice between seeing any of the live permutations at the top of their form (so a show like the Wembley show I saw last year, or Mike, Bruce and David's 2008 UK tour, or Brian's 2002 shows) or a new album of the quality of That's Why God Made The Radio, I'd take the first any time. I'd *probably* even take a merely good show, like the Gershwin tour or the Mike/Bruce 2011 UK show, over a new album, to be honest.
As for being sober and dour, true. But it's a scientifically-established fact that most people, *even when they think they're being too pessimistic*, are actually being far too optimistic. Most things have far more ways to fail than to succeed. Given that, I find it's much better to expect the worst and be very occasionally pleasantly surprised, than to expect the best and be constantly disappointed. (Of course, that doesn't mean pessimism *in the face of the evidence*, like Phil Cohen...)

I'd like to think that Al heard a little sample of what Brian is working on, and it blew him away, so he wants to be a part of it.

Little doubt that Al will spill the beans very soon, especially if he's been sworn to secrecy!  ;D

I don't think Al needs that kind of incentive to play with Brian. All he has to do is be asked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9eAzb-Yuzw

With certain revelations that emerged in the thread about Mike's interview, and the information shared among us all, it appears that there is no formal plan now for a next BB album. Perhaps the MIC will have a disk or a half of a disk (disc?) on reunion band material, either live and/or the unreleased work from Radio. This would be welcomed but disappointing. My dream of a new album of the 5 BB working together in the studio as loving brothers and artists has now gone away. One thinks of Scotty Moore and DJ and Elvis in '68 saying that they wanted to lock themselves away in a studio and do some "woodsheddin" to see what they could come up with.It never happened. To me this is the unkindest cut: they started something with Radio and were ripe for more creative work. . . .

By the way,listen to Radio again:

some notes:

Any place where Jeff alone is "singing out" is a clunker.
Bruce sounds fantastic and redeems Bill and Sue
The musicianship is excellent, passim, including great moments of bass harmonica, organ, etc
SV is a great rockin' LA tune--gets better with time, as does BIM (where Dave's solo is not loud enough in the mix and the drums are abrasive.)
Strange World gets better and better, especially as it announces the Suite
PCH and RTD are all rendered the more poignant by the knowledge/anticipation that there will be no more BB group harmonies.
The B section of the chorus on Shelter is a great moment for Mike.
DOTO is a love song that sounds good if you have a girlfriend.

The whole album (except for the Jeff solos) is a joy to hear start to finish in any setting--at home alone, drive in LA, in a dentist's chair, etc.

The title track is majestic, along with the suite, the crown and glory of the album.

The rest is silence.

I saw Jeff in concert with the Beach Boys in the early 1980's when he filled in for Carl. Carl left the band to go solo. He sounded great then and he sounds great now. Great job he did on the TWGMTR album. With his history in the band and with Brian I'm glad he was there.

People here really hate Foskett...I just don't get it. By in any event, I doubt we will ever get another new BB's album, as the two guys carrying on with the name don't like studio work. I suspect the next BB-related album will be by "Brian Wilson featuring Al Jardine with guest appearance by David Marks"...and I would enjoy that.

What is RTD?

And where's the bass harmonica on the album?  I know the credits provided are sadly lacking, but I don't think I've heard bass hamonica on any of the tracks.

Remember The Days

Resistance Temperature Detector.

No such song, either on TWGMTR or in the entire BB canon. Try "Think About The Days".

Now, I really like "Could Be Good" from that Noisy Animals album. Anyone here agree ?

I want posterity to remember The Beach Boys of 2012, that final shining moment in the sun where they reached back through their 50 year history and pulled it all together for one last, wonderful, bitter-sweet go round and not The Beach Boys of 201? who put out an average album and didn't tour it. Every champ who comes back always has that one fight too many. I want my boys to buck that trend and go out on top. In this respect, I'm probably a bigger fan than all of you combined because I want what's best for them, not what's best for me (new album, another tour, gimme gimme gimme, want want want).

Really, what is best for them, is whatever THEY want to do. (I know, I know, we're talking the Beach Boys, here.) ;)

Truly... and, currently, that's no album, no tour. But that doesn't sit right with some posters here. It's not what they want.

Oh my God, what a freaking moron southbay is. Seriously.

Remember The Doe.

 :hat

Hopefully you are being sarcastic about the "biggest fan" thing but if not, wow. And it's also good to know that you're a mind reader. Since you assume the lot of us don't care what is best for them. Yes, I do admit that I'd like them to do another album. But I also only want them to do it, if they truly want to do it. If they don't, that's ok then. We've already got a lot of great Beach Boys music, and I'm sure we will hear even more when Made In California comes out.


It seems like no album is indeed it right now. But a few months ago Brian sure wanted to do another, as did Al. And Jon Stebbins said there was an offer for one. So apparently it seems like one or more of the other members scuttled that. But in my opinion, that group member has the right to do whatever he wants.

1 - "biggest fan": if you really needed me to pepper that comment with smileys then I'm not sure you should be let out into the cold hard world where people use humor, sarcasm, irony and self-deprecation. Oh, and jokes. Seriously. You're too delicate a flower to be exposed to such things.

Or... maybe I should take that as a compliment that, such is my standing in this forum - and indeed the BB fan world in general - anything I say will be taken as gospel truth*. Thank you.

And no, from some posts here and elsewhere it would truly appear that many fans just want more product, irrespective of potential quality. Like nearly 30 studio albums isn't enough.

2 - "It seems like no album is indeed it right now": which is why I said "currently". I could probably add "and for the foreseeable future".**


[* - this is also a joke]
[** - this isn't]

But if what's best for The Beach Boys is to go out on top, then there shouldn't be this other band masquerading as The Beach Boys. It dilutes the legacy. If they wanted to bill their shows as Mike Love's Beach Boys, or A Tribute to the Beach Boys, that would be okay. Joey Molland has toured for years doing Badfinger songs as Joey Molland's Badfinger, because obviously, it can't be the original group, 3 of the originals are dead. Felix Cavaliere tours doing Rascals music as Felix Cavaliere's Rascals; Gene Cornish and Dino Danelli tour as The New Rascals.

Judging on the evidence since 1998, Brian's people and Carl's estate would seem to disagree with you. As for diluting the legacy... I think they did that pretty well anyway from 1981 to roughly 1993. It's not as if M&B have single-handedly pulled the band's reputation down into the gutter: that's been a work in progress since 1967, with an occasional generous assist from Brian.

Someone needs to change the title of this thread from "information" to "gloom, pessimism and speculation"

I think you're onto something, John, about changing/starting a new thread. We exhausted "the death" of C50 and all of the reasons for its demise - according to us anyway. :-D I'm not sure we should entirely change this thread, the professor's thread, which focuses specifically on the recording of a new album. I do think it's time to ask the question: What are Brian, Al, Carl's estate, and maybe even David going to do about this Beach Boy's situation now. Yeah, Mike took his ball and went home, but, in a way, the ball is now in Brian and Al's court - if they want it to be.

Only time will tell, I hope they make an album this year or next. Then tour to promote it.

And I hope they don't... and that's what makes this place so fascinating, vital and occasionally combative. World would be a very dreary place if we all agreed on everything.

Mind, the arms merchants would be out of a job...

Keep hearing about how heartbroken Brian, Alan & David were when Mike followed the script and went back to his own version of the band (which, btw, is officially sanctioned by BRI... but never mind). Exactly how heartbroken ? To judge purely from the available evidence, not very: Brian made one lengthy statement to the LA Times five months ago, since when he seems to have forgotten about it entirely and started recording for himself, Alan has made a few oblique references to the affair and David has, as ever, maintained a dignified silence. Strikes me this is a bunch of people who aren't actually that fussed. Now, I could be entirely wrong and there could be moves afoot beneath the radar to relieve Mike of his exclusive license... but that's highly unlikely, if only for the well-aired financial implications. I think that all concerned now realise that it's done: C50 is over, time to move on, or go back as is your wont.

*sigh* I can't believe you are happy about going back to the status-quo. Why do you want the group to stay divided, M&B aren't a good representation of the BBs sound anymore after seeing what the C50 did. The money from M&B cannot be that great if they tour small casinos along with paying the band. The remaining money is then divided four ways in BRI. I guess M&B will tour until they die at this point.

The group should make albums without touring together if BW still wants to make records under the BBs name.

At least make an EP in 2013 to keep the fans interested.

I have ideas on a smaller scale that might satisfy everyone, using the Mike, Brian Al, Bruce, Dave lineup - just a June, July, August summer tour, a tour (a la Bob Dylan & Willie Nelson) of minor league ballparks, a holiday/Christmas tour in November and December, reviving the Chicago/Beach Boys tour (it always worked), doing a tour with the kids/family opening up (what is their name, California Saga?), doing a Pet Sounds tour, or doing a tour to promote a possible new BB album.

It doesn't have to be the 60-70 dates tour, maybe 50 tops. The big problem of course, again, is going from a Mike & Bruce Beach Boys to an ADVERTISED Beach Boys with Brian Wilson et al and then reverting BACK to the Mike & Bruce Beach Boys. I see no smooth way to transition around that. Just some thoughts.

EDIT: I was trying to list some shorter-type tours that would easier on them physically, they could get back to their own lifestyles quicker, and they wouldn't be as likely to want to kill each other. :police:

Maybe changing M&B's band name to "The Beach Boys celebration" would be a good compromise.

I still think "The Mike and Bruce experience" is the right choice.

You would expect cheerleaders at a show like that

They haven't done the cheerleading thing since before Carl died, I think...

Nah, they've done it since Carl passed

Maybe you can convince them all to go the way of certain "oldies" groups, then we could have:

Brian Wilson's Original Beach Boys  Featuring Al Jardine and David Marks

Mike Love's Touring Beach Boys with  Classic member Bruce Johnston

unless, of course, Al wants to take on his own short bus tours

Are you sure? I genuinely don't know -- it's not been something anyone's mentioned in any show reports I've read in the last fifteen years, or in any Youtube videos I've seen, and it certainly wasn't in any of the five Mike & Bruce shows I've seen, but none of that necessarily means anything if it's something they only do on occasion, in certain shows.


According to the court cases between BRI and Al Jardine in 1999, Mike's license requires him to pay BRI "a royalty of 20 percent of the first $1 million and 17.5 percent of receipts thereafter."

I've seen people here say they'd been in touch about booking Mike & Bruce's band, and were told that their performance fee was $100,000 . I've not been able to find a confirmation of that, but this site -- http://www.celebritytalent.net/sampletalent/114/the-beach-boys/ -- claims to be able to book Al and David for $75,000+, so $100,000 is probably roughly right. I've no idea how some of the smaller venues pay that, but that's their business, I suppose.

So assuming Mike & Bruce play 150 shows in a year, that's $15,000,000, of which $2,650,000 goes to BRI, assuming the same license terms as in 1999. Brian would make songwriting royalties on top of that (as would Al for those dates where they play All This Is That). Split between the four owners of BRI, that's $662,500 a year each.

If anyone wants to pay me $662,500 a year to stay at home while they go to work, I'll accept the offer...

Cheerleaders from 2008, watch Mike.... ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJIlUgqAiNY

How many shows will M&B play this year?

This website has the 2011 tour dates
http://oldies.about.com/od/recordshows/a/Beach-Boys-Tour-Dates.htm

Fair enough. I stand corrected. Definitely not a regular thing any more though.


Nothing like the full dates -- it looks like that was just c&p'd from the BBFC site at some point early in the year, and not updated. I can't find a fuller list for 2011, but doing a YouTube search for Beach Boys 2011 gives shows in Red Bank, Colorado State Fair, the Ronald Reagan library, Madrid, Santiago, Lincoln California and more -- and that's just the ones on the first couple of pages of YouTube results, plus they play a lot of private functions that aren't listed publicly.

The BBFC site has 42 dates listed between March 1 and Sept 20, and they *definitely* played a lot of shows before March, and there are huge swathes of June, July, August and September, their peak touring times, that have no shows announced yet (only seven shows in Juy, one in August and two in September have been announced yet). I'd be *astonished* if it works out as less than a hundred shows this year.

Hey, we both can agree about the cheerleaders being lame at the end of day.

If M&B does turn out to do 100 shows a year, I wonder how much longer they can tour at that pace. They aren't getting younger and Bruce had heart surgery a while back.

That video was from a cruise ship gig , outside next to a pool , however the pool was a lot smaller than that at Seawold  :lol

I think they'll, quite literally, do it until one or both of them drops dead. Bruce's heart surgery was about nine years ago, and it doesn't seem to have slowed him down.

So in 2011 they did (other than Private Gigs , which could be quite a few ) 50 Shows @ assuming $100k = $5M , Royalties to BRI of $ 900k , Split 4 ways = $225k each (ie $4.5k each show) nice !

(Just one thing to consider , the $100k per gig is the guarantee  and there will be times when their fee increases due to excess ticket sales to contract etc...)

Now I know your tongue is somewhat in cheek, but you don't know whats 'best' for these odd twats any better than I do. So come off it.

I know you are so concerned that they might ruin their (lets be frank here) average comeback record with a shite follow up, but let's be honest, it wouldn't be the first time.

In my opinion, I want The Beach Boys to go out on top. So they should record another album. They have it in them. They need a replacement Joe Thomas with actual taste, but they have it in them.

All 4 licensee holders cheapen the legacy IMO and it is a bit rich to then bleat about it after the fact. As has been stated many times, Brian and Al seem to be happy cashing Mike's checks even if they claim to be wanting to continue touring.

Despite what Bruce said at Seaworld about he and Mike being the Beach Boys, I have since 1998 thought of them as a Mike Love show in everything but name. Mike doesn't seem to complain (in public at least) about paying whatever for the rights, just as Brian, Al and Carls estate don't complain about getting the checks.

What would really surprise me would for Mike to grow a set and go out using his name only as does Waters, Ringo to name a few. He has talked his contribution to the group up for decades so it would be his chance to prove it.

The difference is, everyone knows who Ringo Starr is, and most people know who Roger Waters is. Pretty much no-one knows Mike Love's name.

He *could* probably get audiences as "Mike Love's Beach Boys" or "Mike Love and Bruce Johnston of The Beach Boys" or that kind of thing -- but half the time promoters would just bill a show like that as "the Beach Boys" anyway.

Like today! :thud

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5AhcMhze1Q

The thing is Andrew, at least they grew a set and tried. Waters especially took a gamble. It would be like if Brian went out in the 90s touring PS under his own name while Mike, Al, Carl and Bruce were still active.

They haven't done the cheerleading thing since before Carl died, I think...
[/quote]

Huh?
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=hJIlUgqAiNY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DhJIlUgqAiNY

Huh?
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=hJIlUgqAiNY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DhJIlUgqAiNY

[/quote]

Yep, it's already been pointed out to me how completely wrong I was about that. Obviously all the people I know who'd told me about shows they'd been to over the years had just been lucky...

Yep, it's already been pointed out to me how completely wrong I was about that. Obviously all the people I know who'd told me about shows they'd been to over the years had just been lucky...
[/quote]

Andrew,  I'm just "Taking tthe mick', Joshing ya. Like AGD says, gotta have some fun on the board. Seems liie every news report I ever see covering the Bruce/Mike show, they have chheerleaders. Which is a USA thing, obviously they wouldn't have them for a UK show. Gotta give the Mike/Bruce credit, the cheerleaders are always cute.

Somebody pass me a bucket

Scott Totten could not look stupider

http://www.beachboysband.net/PHOTOGAL/Beach%20Boys%20Beloit,WI%207-13-08/(FAV)Beach%20Boys50.jpg

Nah, Scott does a good job adapting to habitat.

And for all those who claim Bruce just adjusts his mic and claps and makes f***-all else contribution, eat your words - he can clearly be seen throwing a towel into the audience in that clip. Simon Cowell should watch and learn…

No chance. Mike feels he has all rights to the name-not just legally, but ethically. To Mike, he's the guy who has led the band onstage and has been there the whole time. He has just as big an ego as Roger Waters, but in a different way. Roger wanted to out-Floyd Floyd. Mike is happy as hell playing Seaworld as long as he doesn't have to put up with people slobbering over Brian and Al being a pest.

If you look at it from Mike's POV, he has a point of sorts.

Those figures are close to fifteen years and one license renewal out of date, with all that this implies: given inflation I'm guessing you could at least double it. And please, can we stop with this 150-shows-a-year crap ? The Beach Boys, since 1962, have NEVER played that many. Much closer to 100, which is still hugely impressive. The average for all shows 1962-2000 is in the mid-90s. The peak in those years was 1987, with 147 shows.

Again, the inference here is that they only play casinos and the like, and that's just not the case - they play a goodly percentage of concert halls. Here's the April/May listed dates, non casino/state fair/amusement park gigs highlighted:

April 4 — Westbury, NY (NYCB Theatre at Westbury)*
April 5 — Sewell, NJ (TD Bank Arts Center)*
April 6 — Morristown, NJ (Community Theatre at Mayo Performing Arts Center)*
April 7 — Lancaster, PA (American Music Theater)*
April 8 — Greensburg, PA (The Palace Theater in Greensburg)*
April 20 — Phoenix, AZ (Sun Valley)*
May 1 — Prince Albert, SK (E.A. Rawlinson Centre for the Arts)*
May 2 — Regina, SK (Casino Regina Show Lounge)*
May 3 — Edmonton, AB (River Cree Resort and Casino)*
May 4 — Ft. McMurray, AB (McDonald Island Park)*
May 10 — Ivins, UT (Tuacahan Amphitheatre)*
May 11 — Las Vegas, NV (Cannery Casino Hotel)*
May 12 — Flagstaff, AZ (Pepsi Amphitheater at Fort Tuthill Park, 4 p.m.)*
May 17-18 — Tulsa, OK (River Spirit Casino)*
May 19 — Salina, KS (Stiefel Theater for the Performing Arts)*
May 24 — Norfolk, NE (Divots Event Center)*
May 25 — Council Bluffs, IA (River's Edge Park, evening, free show)
May 25 — Omaha, NE (Theater)*

Once more, the facts are being manipulated to suit an end. As a tolerably conscientious historian, I'm not thrilled with that. Mike & Bruce play casinos - they're cheapening the brand. Brian plays casinos... that's cool. Check out this list of dates:

12 - Caesar's Tahoe, Stateline NV
13 - Caesar's Tahoe, Stateline NV
14 - Caesar's Tahoe, Stateline NV
15 - Caesar's Tahoe, Stateline NV
18 - Caesars Palace, Las Vegas NV
19 - Caesars Palace, Las Vegas NV
20 - Caesars Palace, Las Vegas NV
21 - Caesars Palace, Las Vegas NV
22 - Caesars Palace, Las Vegas NV
23 - Caesars Palace, Las Vegas NV

That was for February... 1987. And they returned to the Palace in August for another six nights, and Tahoe for a further four... then back to the Palace in October for six more nights. September that same year:

  2 - Illinois State Fair, Du Quoin IL
  3 - Poplar Creek, Chicago IL [w/Marshal Crenshaw]
  4 - Allentown Fair, Allentown PA
  5 - Performing Arts Center, Saratoga NY [w/Marshall Crenshaw]
  5 - Sands, Atlantic City NJ
  6 - Sands, Atlantic City NJ
  7 - Cawley Memorial Stadium, Lowell RI [w/Michael McDonald]
  7 - Merriweather Post Pavilion, Columbia MD [w/Marshall Crenshaw]d Control]
18 - Boise ID
19 - Puyallup Fair, Puyallup WA [2 shows]
20 - Puyallup Fair, Puyallup WA
23 - Northrop Auditorium, Minneapolis MN
24 - University Of Iowa, Iowa City IA [w/Sawyer Brown]
25 - Oklahoma State Fair, Oklahoma City OK
26 - Astrodome, Houston TX
26 - Six Flags, Arlington, Dallas TX
29 - New Mexico State U, Las Cruces NM
30 - Brigham Young University, Provo UT [w/The Kingsmen]

... and this was after Carl had returned. Point is, the band were playing shitloads of so-called brand-damaging dates long before 1998.

 

The Sands and Caesars are classy venues. I don't think there is anything wrong with a classy casino. Problem with Mike/Bruce is they play dive casinos. Such as the Chinook Windd Casino. It's a venue where washed up rocker and country artists play on the Oregon Coast. A much better venue/casino which is more centrally located and 5 times bigger is Spirit Mountain Casino.

You're ignoring my bigger point - that M&B don't exclusively play casinos - and suddenly, it matters what kind of casino, I see. As I said in another thread - I love the sound of furious back-peddling in the morning...  ;D

Back to the thread title and subsequent discussions…

Since C50 ended David's released a new album, Brian's back in the studio and the two if them with Al have started to book dates. Mike and Bruce have a string of dates booked.

The only sad losers who haven't moved on and wish it could be 2012 forever is our community here. Let's appreciate the past for what it was, not for how it didn't drag on.

Guess you haven't had your coffee. No, they play some nice gigs. If you had bothered to read my "casino" posts on the other thread, which you did and now ignore, I said the same there. Nothing wrong with casinos. Just dumpy ones and the Bruce/Mike show play lots of them. It is truly embarrassing to see them play some of these places.

I think calling board members "sad losers" is not a comment condusive to produvtive discussion. Kinda of a funny comment on a board mainly devoted to yesteryear and music mostly 40-50 years old.

But I do agree, time has moved on. Things like thebeachboys.com - classy. Mike and Bruce headlining Humphreys by the Sea in San Diego, great gig. Dive casinos, don't like it.

Got agree with surf rider, I cannot believe some people want a washed up touring act over the real group making albums and touring.

Not a matter of wanting, more of making do with what's available. C50 is over. Not going to happen again. Best get used to it.

Its the BBs, anything could happen since they did actually reunite and release smile....

So a 2013 album or EP could happen, though I wonder how many TWGMTR outtakes and other material there is.

Aye, anything could happen but haven't we spent enough time speculating about what might, and taken our eyes off what IS happening?

Yeah, I expected as much. They were the only publicly-available figures I could get hold of, and definitely suggested that the touring band bring in a reasonable amount of money.


Fair enough. I've seen the 150 number all over the place and never thought to question it. I'll remember better in future. 100 shows would still bring in a *lot* of money for BRI though...

I wonder what Scott and John think about touring smaller venues again after C50. Scott's role of musical director was a big part of why C50 was successful.

Joint MD...

The fans at these casinos might disagree with you.

That's like saying someone driving a Ford Fiesta thinks his car is just as nice as the Mercedes C350 that just passed him by. See, gamblers know their casinos. And they know the difference between a major Casino on the Vegas strip and the Chinook Winds Casino (where people come to smoke, drink and do some small scale gambling.

Not to say people don't like the dive atmosphere.  But it's also saying the Mike/Bruce show are cool playing the dive "Jack's Bar' in LA vs. While avoiding The House of Blues a few miles away. Course, if their nostalgia tour can't get into nicer venues, that explains why they play dumps.

Any of you British friends who are coming to Oregon, drop me a PM and I will give you a personal tour of where the C50th played, some nice casinos, and then the dive The Bruce/Mike show play on a regular basis.

They can and do - Lancaster's American Music Theater is a very nice venue and they play there regularly. Longwood Gardens in Kennett Square PA is a very classy open air venue in the "Chateau country" of the lower Delaware valley (Du Pont hangout).

See, you're doing it again, and someone new to this forum (may God save their mortal soul) would get the distinct impression that Mike & Bruce only play downscale venues. The way you're expertly twisting, bending and flat-out ignoring the facts tell me you have a great future in politics, or public relations.

(http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g407/Brooks_Loren/551905_4564099299656_384245056_n.jpg)

Some people new to the board might get the distinct impression you argue with people without reading what they have to say.

One has to wonder why you so strongly defend the fact that the Mike/Bruce tour general play the washed out rocker tour along with the likes of Smash Mouth and Sugar Ray. Some say Brian will no longer talk to you and you have now become a pasty for Bruce, who is the only guy talking to you. Just what I hear AGD.

I must say you are doing your credibility no good for even defending M/B for these shows.

You don't like a certain casino or the people who patronize it. Fair enough. But SmileBrian, Surfrider and whoever else ...you seem to feel like someone who goes to those casinos should be punished! They do stuff you don't like, so they do not 'deserve' good music.

If I were trapped at a 'flea bag' casino and had the chance to improve my mood with some great music, I'd probably have to stop and think about it first...."Hmm... understand how upsetting  this is for a few losers on smileysmile, for me to enjoy some music. I better go back to the gambling hall, and await the inevitable continuation of C50.. that, or the expiration of the BRI agreement, so then I can see M&B without making 'hardcore' fans mad." 

Au contraire, because I can see both sides of the coin, and not simply cherry-pick the info that supports any bias I may project, I find new doors opening.

As for those mysterious, mythical "some say", they're feeding you duff info, for Brian has never "talked" to me (in the sense you're implying) in the first place. But, seeing as you claimed you'd met me when it turns out you've not, I think I'm entitled to cast doubt on the veracity of your statement here.  ;D  I just love it when someone tells me something about myself that just isn't true, especially in a public forum for the express purpose of trying to make me look silly... because what happens is that person ends up looking exceedingly foolish. As my friend's children would say, epic fail.  ;D

Absolutely. Personally, I wouldn't pay to see Mike & Bruce doing a short hits show at a casino or county fair, though I'd pay quite a lot to see them do a longer theatre show,
But they're putting on a good show, for audiences who enjoy it. I genuinely don't see what's so bad about them playing "the washed out rocker tour along with the likes of Smash Mouth and Sugar Ray". It seems to be based on nothing other than snobbishness.

I guess just part of me wants to see another C50 lineup show, I saw only one and was blown away. There is nothing more badass than american legends doing 50 song shows and rocking out. To go back to M&B is a hard pill to swallow, it doesn't help when they play less than stellar venues in my opinion.  Adding David or Al to M&B with a monthly appearance at a theater show by Brian would make it easier to accept.

Exactly.

Yep. That's what I'm saying.

I would pay hundreds of dollars to hear Mike sing "All I Wanna Do" live...

...:(

I would pay millions if MBV backed him while he did it. Kevin Shields is a huge BBs fan.

With the technology available today, could easily be done. I'd be behind you in the queue. To hear, not pay, of course.

So Andrew's a 'pasty for Bruce'? Really? What kind?

Nobody wants that except the guy who matters-Mike.

For the information of the starry-eyed here... before last year, the last time "the real group" made an album was 1992 (or 1996 if you stretch a few points) and the last time "the real group" toured was May 1998. That they failed, neglected or plain couldn't be bothered to do so in the intervening 15-odd years should give you a big hint as to why C50 was (literally) a once-in-a-decade event. If you want something enough, you'll do it. They realised, all of them, that C50 was almost certainly the very last chance they'd have to make it work, and even then, it was showing signs of strain well before the end. You can think an' wish an' hope an' pray all you like - won't make a spit of difference.

Well, we could all chip in so it amounts to hundreds and thus provides proper incentive to the Lovester. :lol I'd be worried that if Shields backed him, he'd be unable to refrain from using an unnecessary amount of guitar effects while playing.

That's the way I feel, too. Believe me, I have no interest in seeing M&B. I would have before last year. I consider the Beach Boys to be the entire group, not what exists currently. However, I don't see the big deal about what venues are played. It's not like they're playing at retirement homes or strip clubs. And really, if people want to see them live, then good on them. Turning down a paying gig in this day and age is stupid. These venues generally have lower ticket prices than the more 'prestigious' venues. Why deny a lower income family an opportunity to see a live show?

Please stop trying to act as if you are "fair and balanced" Andrew. You are not. Just like the rest of us, you have an agenda to push, whether you know it or not.

And if it bothers you that SurfRider made possibly untrue accusations about you, how about you stop making the same kind of assumptions about others.

We all have an agenda to push, no question of that. Difference is, some - most - of us realise this, and also consider not only both sides but also the facts before presenting same. Others cherry pick the facts that support their personal bias and discard the rest. That's OK, just makes it all the easier for the rest of us to shoot them down in flames. Kinda fun, actually.  8)

As for the "possibly untrue accusations", I'm deeply tickled that someone who has never, ever talked to me in the first place is now... not talking to me. Makes someone look seriously foolish - and it ain't me. Terrible emotion, envy. Makes you say things that aren't true. As my ol' buddy Oscar was wont to say, "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about".

Get off your high horse, you push the M&B agenda like the people on the bloo board push Brian's. It isn't a crime to do so, but actually pretending you don't and pushing people to follow it isn't right.

Yes it is.

No, no it's not, not at all, when you're protecting your artistic integrity. You might have to starve, go without but you CANNOT degrade the band's artistic integrity by playing shitty casinos. This is a fact. SurfRiderHawaii has so decreed. It must be so.  8)

Brian, of course, has never, ever played a low-rent venue in his entire solo career.

Brian isn't touring as the BBs.


M&B have the BBs name and still tour crappy venues. They could do better, but that isn't how Mike Love operates.

Can we not have every thread turn into some sort of M&B vs. C50 debate? With the lack of actual news of product, lately everyone has been getting so pissy, and it seems it's just for the sake of it.

For years, an actual reunion was all we were waiting for, we got it, and now we're incessantly whining about how they aren't doing it again the next year. Things are what they are...if there's another reunion, there will be one....everyone involved knows the demand is there.

Don't like the venues M&B are playing? Don't like that this incarnation exists at all? DON'T GO TO SEE THEM!!!! Other side of the coin, you like them? Pay your money and support them. It's really that simple. Moaning and sobbing on a message board for either side does nothing.

Good point Ego, that is why I created the "TWGMTR follow-up" thread.

You could look at it as the very hallmark of BeachBoyism. A Populist tradition the Boys have followed all through their career. Going where the fans are whether snooty or common, high brow or low brow. I'm sure the Boys could limit themselves to snooty venues and pretend they are some uber-fan elitist wetdream arena band but that isn't the brand, that wouldn't be very BeachBoy would it.

I suggest we all get over ourselves and allow the legacy to roll on, which I'm sure it will do just as it has, with us or without us.

Never, ever, ever ever claimed I have met you. As it seems more often these days, you have me confused with someone else or misread a post.

. I certainly don't have to try and make you look silly. You lose your temper and do thst often enough yourself.

What's next for the Bruce/Mike show, high school reunions and Proms? Don't they deserve good music?

This isn't the Dave Clark Five or Turtles we are talking about. It's the Beach Boyd. Considered one of the grestest bands of all time. Inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame right next to the Beatles.

The C50 was a master stroke of marketing and promotion. The band showed everyone they still had it and did much to restore the luster to their legacy.  So if Mike is going to take his license and tour as The Beach Boys, my opinion is that he do it in such a way the preserves the legacy.  Instead, he has made his act almost a parody of the real thing.

Obviously you were blowing smoke then a ways back when you told me you would personally ask Brian about the GV promo film. I assumed you had no access when Brian came and went, and nada from you. Zip.

So McCartney, Ringo, Dylan, U2, Rush, Sringsteen, The Rolling Stones, Van Halen, ............ are all snobs because they wouldn't play these venues in a million years. They'd laugh at the thought. If having class, artistic integrety, and management that promotes you as a superstar makes you a snob, I guess they are.

And I'm deeply tickled that you have msde up some fantasy that we met, talked, and now I don't talk. Aside from jousting in threads and 10 -12 PMs exchanged,  that be it dude. As for looking foolish, look in the mirror. This is the third time I've told you you are mistaken but, as usual, you can't admit you are wrong.

As to those that think it's fine for the Bruce/Mike show to play crappy venues, well, go and enjoy youselves.
But their is a reason the radio.com poll picked Brian, Al and Dave over M/B 9 to 1.

I've seen both The Beach Boys and Brian perform at one of your "crappy venues" (casinos), and not once, for even a second, did I think "I really wish they were playing someplace better."

Gee, I really hope that doesn't make me a "crappy" person.

Where? What casino did you see Brian?

Brian has never played the dumps M/B play and he isn't billing himself as the Beach Boys.

You guys ignore the fact that the great bands don't play dives. By your logic, McCartney is an elitist snob.

In the issue of fairness (and trust me, I'm not picking sides here), it must be pointed out that a band earns much less from playing less prestigious venues, and the ticket prices generally much lower. That allows lower income people to attend a concert that they otherwise wouldn't be able to afford. I myself had to hit the pawn shop in order to buy the C50 tickets for the show I went to. I wasn't going to miss it for the world, and with their age and my health, I know opportunities to see any of the Beach Boys play (together or separately) are limited.

Another way of looking at this...you're right...MOST of the great bands don't play dives. But...wouldn't it be nice (pun intended) for someone at, say, Sea World get to see a 'real' band play rather than some knockoff band?

Brian has played many a casino, and many a "dump" that M/B play. Just do a search for the word "casino" on this page: http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/set00s.html.

Get your facts straight and do some basic research before opining again.

Good point Billy. And there many wonderful, classy casinos the Mike/Bruce play. My point is that some are just horrendous.  It's embarrassing,  in the eyes of many people. Anyway, I sound like a broken record. Taking the needle off this subject.

Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. Otherwise, you't give examples. I have been to some of the casinos Brian played and they are nice. Either you have never been to a dumpy casino or don't know what one is.

All you Mike/Bruce lovers will cheer them on no matter how low they sink.

And again, Brian isn't touring as the Beach Boyd.

I gotta say, artist formerly known as SurfRiderHawaii, I like your posts. But seriously what's the point of arguing about which casinos Mike and Bruce play? Who cares? Nothing we can do about it one way or the other.

Actually, to everybody: no point in arguing about any of this "who's not touring with who" thing. Nobody is gonna convince anybody most likely. So let's look forward to the box set, and patiently await the next set of Brian Wilson originals beyond that. Maybe they will be presented as Beach Boys tunes. Maybe they will be "Brian Wilson" tunes featuring Al and Dave, who knows? But we might as well get away from this negativity about this stuff.

You are right man. Moving on. (Even when the Brits wake up and their onslaught begins).

Yeah, moved to Oregon in Nov. thus the name update.

Yes, the founder of this thread, the Professor, says to please leave the casino thing. This thread is for despair or joy over the next album. List hear any information, rumor, hint, or insight you have about the next album, or come here to lament that it will never be.

  6/20/99   Mohegan Sun Casino, Uncasville, CT
    7/8/00   Tropicana Casino, Atlantic City, NJ
  7/11/00   Mohegan Sun Casino, Uncasville, CT
10/29/04   Pala Casino, Pala, CA
10/30/04   The Railhead, Boulder Station Casino, Las Vegas, NV
  7/18/05   Monaco Sporting Casino, Monte Carlo, Monaco (I'll grant, that's a pretty classy one !)
    8/9/07   RiverRock Casino, Vancouver, BC, Canada
  8/10/07   RiverRock Casino, Vancouver, BC, Canada
  8/11/07   Silver Legacy Casino, Reno, NV
  7/13/07   Hampton Beach Casino Ballroom, Hampton Beach, NH
    9/6/08   Grand Sierra Resort and Casino, Reno, NV
10/23/09   Soaring Eagle Casino, Mount Pleasant, MI
  12/4/09   Agua Caliente Casino, Rancho Mirage, CA
    8/5/11   Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino, Hollywood, FL

Everyone, go to post #517 of the now locked "New Mike Love Examiner interview" thread to see where he says he's met me. Only now he says he hasn't. To quote Bob Dylan, you're a liar.

As for my asking Brian about the "GV" promo film... you don't have much of a sense of humor, do you ? I'm guessing when I wrote yesterday that I made up stuff on 10452, you believed that too. Not only a liar but a credulous one - them's the best kind to play mind games with.  ;D

Might wanna check that ref Andrew… that's Billy' post:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15371.msg358758.html#msg358758

Good catch John. I think though it was reference to what I had quoted (which I thought I deleted). What I said then I'm carrying over to this thread. Take it to PMs. Final warning (Not you, John...you're cool). Only reason why I'm letting it go is because I don't think I made myself clear...my comment was not limited to that thread.

Now...deep breaths...relax...

Billy's post, quoting two others, including the one where SurfRider/Oregon/whatever states he's met me... which is, by his own recent admission, a lie. Granted it was in a private message, and I have no truck with the posting of those, but still - it's a lie.

And as I don't have dealings with liars, from where the sun now stands I will respond no more forever.

Egads...I forgot to delete the PM from my quote. I need to fix that.

Dammit...now I gotta ban myself

edit


fixed



I'm holding you to the latter. Not kidding.

Billy, I wouldn't have your job for the world!   :lol

sh*t, I wish I could get paid for this!

I sent you a PM but here is the sanitized version:

Looks like Billy bailed your ass out and deleted your first  hilarious "yes, you did say you met me" post before you had made a complete fool of yourself. Andrew, your comprehension skills are shot....

First, though I did lead off with a compliment about your sarcasm skills, the PM concerned Mr. Mike Love.  Who I have met.  I have never had the unfortunate experience of meeting you.

I did PM you months back about the Eugene concert where I had a very distasteful experience meeting Mr. Love . Thus cementing my opinion that Mr. Love is a d*ckhead!

Secondly, what a immense ego you have!  That you thought I would consider you the biggest d*ckhead in rock and roll?  I am rolling on the floor laughing.  You are, as I, utterly insignificant in the world of R&R.  God, this is so funny..

Third - People really don't give a sh*t if we've met, or if I would claim to have.

Lastly, I love the sound of furious back-peddling in the morning...   :lol

You owe ma an apology Sir!

It will have to wait...he has been suspended for posting that PM, which violates board rules.

Unfortunate but I will keep this now on PM where this kinda thing belongs. Thanks Billy.

Write yourself a big cheque Billy… add a tip!

Meh...not yet...just realized it didn't go through at first because I forgot to hit submit. Fixed.

Alright you guys I'm heading to sleep...be nice while I'm gone. And when I come back too!

Night Billy.... ;D

What just happened?

I don't know, it all happened so fast!

AGD quoted a post someone else had made, containing a PM.
The quote was supposed to prove that SurfRider had lied about something, but AGD misread the quote.
AGD has now been suspended for quoting PMs in his messages, despite the fact that he was actually quoting from someone else's public message (which in turn quoted the PM).

It's all got very silly, really.

Is the original PM quoter also suspended?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XyaVCJPNLHc#t=21s

Billy suspended him last week.

Is this real life?

Is this just fantasy?

fantasy is reality ya know.

AGD did more than repost a private PM. His post was one of his classic temper outbursts over his mistaken belief that I had claimed to have met him and how I was now lying about it.

Seeing the original PM was about my meeting Mike Love, not Andrew, Billy deleted the entire angry, ranting post, saving AGD some egg on his face.  Despite ceiling me a liar five times on the board, AGD has refused to apologize. Some class act our AGD, My, my.

He'll get you at recess. Nah-nah-nahnah-nah...

Could it be that Mike and AGD are the same person, and he simply forgot which persona he was wearing when he made those posts?

Let's examine the similarities:

1) Both are big fans of Looking Back With Love.
2) Both have been known to communicate with Bruce Johnston.
3) I saw both at the RAH in September, but not in the same room at the same time.
4) I don't think I've ever heard Andrew sing… it'd be too big a giveaway.
5) Mike drinks Babycham, and Andrew also claims only to ever rarely touch an alcoholic beverage.
6) erm… that's it…
7) I don't want to reach 8 because the board software turns it into a Smiley in shades…
8) See what I mean…
9) Darn, I did it anyway…

Egomaniacs don't have it within themselves to admit they are in error. Sorry is not in their vocabulary not to mention the fact that it makes them appear weak or fragile. They abuse the word liar to cover up the fact that they are wrong. It would certainly be in the interest of him to initiate his own discussion board where he could ban anyone who diagrees with him or just call them liars when he feels the urge. It is a small respite not having him here for a few days but really, Isn't It Time for the major 'tude to jockey  for position elsewhere? I understand there are numerous slots that need to be filled at the mYke Luhv Fan Cluhb message board.

Seriously it really is a shame that AGD is so full of himself that he couldn't apologize. He used to be so informative but now he just kinda seems out of touch. Its funny that he probably would never quit this board cuz its really the only place that where he really has much "status" and we know how much he craves that.

What's done is done.

AGD will be missed

Whoa Billy, that's easy for you to say. You weren't wrongly acused of lying 5 different times, brutally attacked with venom and had your reputation severly assaulted. I'm not sure I wlile ever recover.  :lol :o :'(

Seriously, it's all rather silly and now done with. I just wish AGD could coexist without turning into a bully so often.

I think we can survive a one week ban.

This place without AGD is a fucking JOKE!! How long is he banned for? Of all the sh*t he has had to put up with over the years.. Shame Billy Shame. How many of you fucking MUPPETS have done what he has for The Beach Boys?? (except those that have!!)

For starters how about showing some respect for Andrew, Jon and others that have done many more Decades, Years and hours worth of research! They have given up vast chunks of their lives to then be critisized for defending their stance on many issues.
a)THEY KNOW MORE THAN YOU
b)THEY HAVE EARNT OUR RESPECT
c)THEY DESERVE OUR RESPECT

PISSED OFF DELUX FFS Pull your heads in.. You don't know what you got till it's gone!!

Seriously? It's for a week. And I of all people am the last person  herewho should not be accused of showing him or anybody respect.

Andrew knows a lot about the band and does good research, doesn't mean members have to kiss his ass and ego here.

To the tune of Tom Dooley:

Hang down your head now Billy
Hang down your head and die
Hang down your head Billy
This dude ain't gonna cry.

I could care less about some obtuse Beach Boy expert-the bottom line is how he shares that info with others. If he's a moronic head case that uses that knowledge for power and swagger, then who really needs him? Let him come back after he completes and passes Growing Up 101. In the meantime, there's no EARNT respect for the agdster.

Billy I am dissapointed that you have banned him, but thats it mate! Your a great guy and do an awesome job here.

But the lack of respect from members lately towards Jon and over the years Andrew has got to stop, these guys have put decades into what they have done! We want them to keep coming and giving their opinions, their stories and first hand experiences are priceless!
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but some opinions are more educated than others.

To the tune of whistling dixie:

Rules are rules and I'm sure AGD understood why the action was taken. Don't blame Billy, he's just enforcing the rules. But I agree that I would rather have Andrew here, than not. I prefer truth, facts & clarification than opinion, conjecture and fantasy land daydreaming, but that's just me. ;)

I really hope he comes back. he does seem a bit defensive at times, but it's really cool to have someone who certainly seems to have some degree of insider knowledge... I really hope he comes back. It will be a huge loss to the board if he does not.

I don't know, you seem to be filling in for him quite nicely

Agreed, AGD reaped what he sowed in the respect department.

Seeing as I'm often browsing this site with my seven year old hanging around, the swearing's not on really.

 - This Board is the better when knowledgeable and informed people post and that includes AGD.
 - Perhaps the tone of his posts sometimes rubs some people the wrong way (I for one don't have a problem with his posts) but they are much, much preferable to those who post messages insulting certain members of the Beach Boys by constantly and purposefully incorrectly spelling their names.
 - If AGD violated a Board policy then the temporary ban is likely warranted and we should all take a lesson from that - no one is above reproach.
 - A bit more civility towards each other would be a good thing and help make the Moderators' lives and duties somewhat more easier and enjoyable.

I couldn't agree more.

Couldn't agree more with this.

Thank you Mr Universe! :lol

Seriously though...excellent points. I agree with each one.

Lately almost every thread he touched turned into some kind of anger filled opportunity to correct, belittle which then became a 'he said-I said' rant. It is a very sad way for anyone to act on a message board and I hope for him it is not like that in his real life.

I'm sure he will be back. As he often says...."It's What He Does". He has hinted about some sh!t in his life last year. Don't know what it is, but don't we all!

If you are still are still reading the thread AGD, I for one know about 5% of what you do despite being a fan for 35 years. Its just a hobby and interest, and the chance to escape our crazy lives for awhile, for me and most of us here. Try to remember that when you choose to fill in for us,  our large Beach Boys related gaps with your wealth of knowledge.



 

Usually, if you act like you have a half a brain, he doesn't act that way with people. Just an observation of mine over past couple of years.

yeah, BBuniverse made some good points.

People who complain about AGD seem the most pathetic to me. AGD isn't their friend, but he isn't my friend either. However, as I give people who know more than me permission to exist, I don't lose any sleep over it. I might even learn something. Haters expose more of their own flawed thinking than any of his. Why would anyone derive their 'status' in life from a message board? He's king of the message board? Is he a child? WTF! The only ones making him seem like some kind of king are the people complaining about how he thinks he's some kind of king.

Oh Wait! I forgot...all opinions are equal. I'm getting to hate that word. Opinion word filter anyone? Bring back merda, for opinion. We can eliminate that blue balls inducing safety word ., "opinion".  like stuff just starts getting nice and rough and interesting, then some wimp yells "opinion" and everything stops. Merda would strip the word of its false profundity. It's a redundant word, too. Obviously these are opinions.

:h5 :h5 :happydance :woot :thumbsup :woot :woot

"Usually, if you act like you have a half a brain, he doesn't act that way with people. Just an observation of mine over past couple of years."

Amen.

Picture the scene.

A rundown casino, located off the murky backroads. Inside it's dark, save for the neon glow reflecting from the buzzing lights. The air is stale with cheap cigar smoke and stale perfume. An ugly waitress walks over to you with a drink on a tray.

"Here's your drink Mr. OSD" , she says bending down to place the glass on the table.You take a sip and recoil.Your whiskey has obviously been watered down. You down it anyway, you need the dutch courage. You walk over to the roulette table and plunk yourself down in a chair. The goon behind the wheel looks up at you with a mixture of boredom and contempt.

"All of it on black" you say, pushing a pile of chips over the board. You had to pawn your mint 1970 vinyl copy of Sunflower with all six band members signatures on it to pay for those chips.

"$750 on black." calls the dealer. He spins the wheel in motion. The ball spins round, fast at first but then gradually slowing down. Your heart beats. Double time. You cannot bear to watch but find yourself powerless to look away. You clench your eyes shut and wait for it to be over. Finally you hear the ball come to a stop. You open your eyes, it is on green 00.

"House wins" says the dealer with a smirk on his face.

This is it. You have reached rock bottom. You take cold confort in the fact that at least things can't get any worse. Screeching feedback from a mike being turned on startles you. The MC taps the mike and then starts to speak.

"Ladies and Gentlemen. Tonight do we have a treat for you! All the way from sunny California. It's the legendary Beach Boys featuring Mike Love and Bruce Johnston!!!"

"WHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!........"

Then what if the Casino turned into SeaWorld and OSD got splashed by water.  Brian showed up and got splashed by water too.Then he found cold confort in the fact that at least John Stamos wasn't there. Then the cast of full house showed up to have a read through of their latest episode , and Bob Sagat broke character and started doing his stand-up act and it was really blue and profane, and everyone was like "Hey THATS NOT DANNY TANNER!!"
And then they all got forced by the casino indians to go on a death march to kokomo.

In a new interview Mike says he likes to play them all from a "club to a stadium". Case closed.

This following is really all that needs to be said on this subject:

Sexy Sadie, you broke the rules
You laid it down for all to see 
Sexy Sadie, oh, you broke the rules
One sunny day the world was waiting for the lover
She came along to turn on everyone
Sexy Sadie, the greatest of them all


We gave her everything we owned just to sit at her table
Just a smile would lighten everything
Sexy Sadie, she's the latest and the greatest of them all

Huehue...

A bunch of adult people bickering like children over insignificant triffles.
GUYS in case you didnt notice: this is the internet where people troll the sh*t out of each other and anything can be interpreted or misinterpreted multiple ways.
'Mom some guy on the internet might've insulted me!'



Good comedy, keep supplying!

ahuehuehue.... ;D

I'm going to close this, as the original point of the thread was a new BB album which as of now isn't happening (although I wish it would) and has devolved into something else entirely.