SMiLE Sessions box set!

[juggler]

Very true. But there is an even bigger "stumbling block" in this whole project. Van Dyke Parks himself. In some ways, he's a bigger part of SMiLE than Brian.

From all I've read, VDP would be the first one to disagree with you on that.   Parks was hired to write lyrics to express his boss's ideas.  He did a damned fine job.  His lyrics are wonderful, but the true greatness of Smile is in Brian Wilson's music and the Beach Boys' singing.   

[Dove Nested Towers]

Very true. But there is an even bigger "stumbling block" in this whole project. Van Dyke Parks himself. In some ways, he's a bigger part of SMiLE than Brian.

From all I've read, VDP would be the first one to disagree with you on that.   Parks was hired to write lyrics to express his boss's ideas.  He did a damned fine job.  His lyrics are wonderful, but the true greatness of Smile is in Brian Wilson's music and the Beach Boys' singing.   

VDP's lyrics & concepts are an integral, vital component of the overall atmosphere, perception and artistic effect that the Smile music has on listeners, and IMO no one element is more important than any other, it is the sum of all of its parts and couldn't exist without any of the 3 elements (no pun intended) mentioned, even if he has been self-effacing and modestly (correctly) describes his lyrical efforts as purely shaped by the musical pieces he was presented with by Brian.

[Dove Nested Towers]

As much as I would love to hear everything Smile there exists, I think that Durrie is entitled to her privacy, and it is entirely up to her whether, or not, she collaborates in the present project. No need to endlessly ruminate about her 'duties' here, much less to judge her morally on the matter.

I don't quite agree.  Surely she's aware of the mythical status that Smile has attained, and would understand the significance of this box set.  Why would she assign any sense of "privacy" to the Smile recordings unless she actually appears on them?

Emotional attachment to something her first hubbie was very much involved in? Don't know... could be a variety of reasons. Perhaps she's a very sensitive person who doesn't even want to discuss lending her possesion to engineers who later will return it. What I meant is: we can think all we want to think, but it's up to her. We have no natural birth-right to 'coax' her into doing what we'd like to do her the most... and even if many folks who consider themselves sane think she's a bit strange in this respect, even then things are what they are.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. 

Seriously, whatever the reason, it's not our place to demand anything, really.

"Demand" is the wrong word. It's her husband's work (& others') and she was there cheering on the scene and supporting the musical creativity back then, so if she got the acetates as part of the divorce settlement, one would think that she would be at least a little bit invested in their final disposition, and it could be said that she took on some degree of responsibility for the ownership, preservation and use of them in the project that will attempt to sew up all of Smile's loose ends once and for all. If, however, they inadvertently came into her possession, unbeknownst to her, as part of a haphazard divorce settlement and division of assets or property, that complicates the ethical obligations involved because she would not have knowingly taken on that responsibility. It could also be said that it's up to VDP and B.W. whether they wil try to get the acetates retrieved and catalogued in time for inclusion on the set, or at all for that matter. Just thinking out loud, I know that this is all very personal to those involved and don't mean to be indelicate or presumptuous. The acetates could also be irretrievably deteriorated or redundant, either of which circumstance obviously renders the topic moot.

[The Heartical Don]

As much as I would love to hear everything Smile there exists, I think that Durrie is entitled to her privacy, and it is entirely up to her whether, or not, she collaborates in the present project. No need to endlessly ruminate about her 'duties' here, much less to judge her morally on the matter.

I don't quite agree.  Surely she's aware of the mythical status that Smile has attained, and would understand the significance of this box set.  Why would she assign any sense of "privacy" to the Smile recordings unless she actually appears on them?

Emotional attachment to something her first hubbie was very much involved in? Don't know... could be a variety of reasons. Perhaps she's a very sensitive person who doesn't even want to discuss lending her possesion to engineers who later will return it. What I meant is: we can think all we want to think, but it's up to her. We have no natural birth-right to 'coax' her into doing what we'd like to do her the most... and even if many folks who consider themselves sane think she's a bit strange in this respect, even then things are what they are.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. 

Seriously, whatever the reason, it's not our place to demand anything, really.

"Demand" is the wrong word. It's her husband's work (& others') and she was there cheering on the scene and supporting the musical creativity back then, so if she got the acetates as part of the divorce settlement, one would think that she would be at least a little bit invested in their final disposition, and it could be said that she took on some degree of responsibility for the ownership, preservation and use of them in the project that will attempt to sew up all of Smile's loose ends once and for all. If, however, they inadvertently came into her possession, unbeknownst to her, as part of a haphazard divorce settlement and division of assets or property, that complicates the ethical obligations involved because she would not have knowingly taken on that responsibility. It could also be said that it's up to VDP and B.W. whether they wil try to get the acetates retrieved and catalogued in time for inclusion on the set, or at all for that matter. Just thinking out loud, I know that this is all very personal to those involved and don't mean to be indelicate or presumptuous. The acetates could also be irretrievably deteriorated or redundant, either of which circumstance obviously renders the topic moot.

...and as we speak, somewhere in the American heartland, in a remote village, a 9-year old boy is spinning a rather weird looking record on an old Dansette. His dad, recently deceased, had bought a small set of those strange records in some car boot sale, or rather, he got them from the friendly old man who gave them away for free, as part of a larger lot, including exotic curtains, a water pipe, some odd paintings depicting a tall guy who might, or might not have been a pop musician. and so on.

The boy can't for the life of him decipher the messy handwriting that's on the label of the disks. But he is entranced, enthralled, mesmerized by the beauty of what he hears - this even makes him temporarily forget the grief and sorrow he is going through these days. He thinks: one day I will go on to make music as gorgeous as this... and then we will have world peace.

[buddhahat]

Very true. But there is an even bigger "stumbling block" in this whole project. Van Dyke Parks himself. In some ways, he's a bigger part of SMiLE than Brian.

From all I've read, VDP would be the first one to disagree with you on that.   Parks was hired to write lyrics to express his boss's ideas.  He did a damned fine job.  His lyrics are wonderful, but the true greatness of Smile is in Brian Wilson's music and the Beach Boys' singing.   

VDP's lyrics & concepts are an integral, vital component of the overall atmosphere, perception and artistic effect that the Smile music has on listeners, and IMO no one element is more important than any other, it is the sum of all of its parts and couldn't exist without any of the 3 elements (no pun intended) mentioned, even if he has been self-effacing and modestly (correctly) describes his lyrical efforts as purely shaped by the musical pieces he was presented with by Brian.

Agree with Muted here. I think it's very telling that Smile began to unravel when VDP left. His fingerprints are all over it and I suspect he was a huge inspiration to Brian, and cheerleader in getting Brian to take risks and produce his most adventurous, experimental music. It's no surprise that H&V, once VDP is gone, becomes a more conventional pop song in its structure, and loses some of the glorious rough edges such as the discordant "often wise" bit. Smile was definitely a collaboration, and its genius lies in the partnership of Brian and VDP.

[Cam Mott]

Or did VDP bail when SMiLE began to unravel?

[buddhahat]

Or did VDP bail when SMiLE began to unravel?

chickens doing their number

or eggs and grits?!!

[Fun Is In]

Or did VDP bail when BRiAN began to unravel?

[buddhahat]

Or did VDP bail when BRiAN began to unravel?

He certainly alludes to this in the beatiufl Dreamer doc. Is it the fire session that he found particularly unsettling, and the way people seemed oblivious to Brian escalating problems.

[Cam Mott]

Anderle also said that VDP had lost confidence in the under sophistication of Brian's music and Brian had lost confidence in the over sophistication of VDP's lyrics right around February. To me seems the album was the undoing of the relationship rather than the relationship the undoing of the album.

On the other hand Vosse said the opposite I think.

On the third hand, Siegel seems to say their relationship was the undoing of the their relationship.

[Runaways]

Very true. But there is an even bigger "stumbling block" in this whole project. Van Dyke Parks himself. In some ways, he's a bigger part of SMiLE than Brian.

From all I've read, VDP would be the first one to disagree with you on that.   Parks was hired to write lyrics to express his boss's ideas.  He did a damned fine job.  His lyrics are wonderful, but the true greatness of Smile is in Brian Wilson's music and the Beach Boys' singing.   

VDP's lyrics & concepts are an integral, vital component of the overall atmosphere, perception and artistic effect that the Smile music has on listeners, and IMO no one element is more important than any other, it is the sum of all of its parts and couldn't exist without any of the 3 elements (no pun intended) mentioned, even if he has been self-effacing and modestly (correctly) describes his lyrical efforts as purely shaped by the musical pieces he was presented with by Brian.

Agree with Muted here. I think it's very telling that Smile began to unravel when VDP left. His fingerprints are all over it and I suspect he was a huge inspiration to Brian, and cheerleader in getting Brian to take risks and produce his most adventurous, experimental music. It's no surprise that H&V, once VDP is gone, becomes a more conventional pop song in its structure, and loses some of the glorious rough edges such as the discordant "often wise" bit. Smile was definitely a collaboration, and its genius lies in the partnership of Brian and VDP.

yeah, and i don't think brian would ever say it wasn't exactly what you said.  Brian was doing SMiLE with van dyke.  One of my favorite moments of the dreamer doc was "he thought i was big enough to guard the door.  I wasn't big enough".  However, i think smile was already unraveling when VDP left.  that was just part of the unraveling. 

[The Shift]

...and as we speak, somewhere in the American heartland, in a remote village, a 9-year old boy is spinning a rather weird looking record on an old Dansette. His dad, recently deceased, had bought a small set of those strange records in some car boot sale, or rather, he got them from the friendly old man who gave them away for free, as part of a larger lot, including exotic curtains, a water pipe, some odd paintings depicting a tall guy who might, or might not have been a pop musician. and so on.

The boy can't for the life of him decipher the messy handwriting that's on the label of the disks. But he is entranced, enthralled, mesmerized by the beauty of what he hears - this even makes him temporarily forget the grief and sorrow he is going through these days. He thinks: one day I will go on to make music as gorgeous as this... and then we will have world peace.

Sentimentalism, Don... the kid sold his dad's collection on eBay and bought a PlayStation.

[The Heartical Don]

...and as we speak, somewhere in the American heartland, in a remote village, a 9-year old boy is spinning a rather weird looking record on an old Dansette. His dad, recently deceased, had bought a small set of those strange records in some car boot sale, or rather, he got them from the friendly old man who gave them away for free, as part of a larger lot, including exotic curtains, a water pipe, some odd paintings depicting a tall guy who might, or might not have been a pop musician. and so on.

The boy can't for the life of him decipher the messy handwriting that's on the label of the disks. But he is entranced, enthralled, mesmerized by the beauty of what he hears - this even makes him temporarily forget the grief and sorrow he is going through these days. He thinks: one day I will go on to make music as gorgeous as this... and then we will have world peace.

Sentimentalism, Don... the kid sold his dad's collection on eBay and bought a PlayStation.

Yeah... and I forgot to mention that the kid sold it to yours truly. 

[Don_Zabu]

This whole thing is reminding me of Indiana Jones.

"It belongs in a museum!"

[juggler]

Sing it to the tune of "The Muffin Man"...

Do you have the acetates,
The acetates, the acetates,
Do you have the acetates
that live with Durrie Parks?

[donald]

[yeah, and i don't think brian would ever say it wasn't exactly what you said.  Brian was doing SMiLE with van dyke.  One of my favorite moments of the dreamer doc was "he thought i was big enough to guard the door.  I wasn't big enough".  However, i think smile was already unraveling when VDP left.  that was just part of the unraveling. 
[/quote]


I was thinking about that footage as I read your post.  VDP seemed somewhat remorseful, in retrospect , that he couldnt "be there" for Brian at the time.

[hypehat]

As much as I would love to hear everything Smile there exists, I think that Durrie is entitled to her privacy, and it is entirely up to her whether, or not, she collaborates in the present project. No need to endlessly ruminate about her 'duties' here, much less to judge her morally on the matter.

I don't quite agree.  Surely she's aware of the mythical status that Smile has attained, and would understand the significance of this box set.  Why would she assign any sense of "privacy" to the Smile recordings unless she actually appears on them?

Emotional attachment to something her first hubbie was very much involved in? Don't know... could be a variety of reasons. Perhaps she's a very sensitive person who doesn't even want to discuss lending her possesion to engineers who later will return it. What I meant is: we can think all we want to think, but it's up to her. We have no natural birth-right to 'coax' her into doing what we'd like to do her the most... and even if many folks who consider themselves sane think she's a bit strange in this respect, even then things are what they are.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. 

Seriously, whatever the reason, it's not our place to demand anything, really.

"Demand" is the wrong word. It's her husband's work (& others') and she was there cheering on the scene and supporting the musical creativity back then, so if she got the acetates as part of the divorce settlement, one would think that she would be at least a little bit invested in their final disposition, and it could be said that she took on some degree of responsibility for the ownership, preservation and use of them in the project that will attempt to sew up all of Smile's loose ends once and for all. If, however, they inadvertently came into her possession, unbeknownst to her, as part of a haphazard divorce settlement and division of assets or property, that complicates the ethical obligations involved because she would not have knowingly taken on that responsibility. It could also be said that it's up to VDP and B.W. whether they wil try to get the acetates retrieved and catalogued in time for inclusion on the set, or at all for that matter. Just thinking out loud, I know that this is all very personal to those involved and don't mean to be indelicate or presumptuous. The acetates could also be irretrievably deteriorated or redundant, either of which circumstance obviously renders the topic moot.

...and as we speak, somewhere in the American heartland, in a remote village, a 9-year old boy is spinning a rather weird looking record on an old Dansette. His dad, recently deceased, had bought a small set of those strange records in some car boot sale, or rather, he got them from the friendly old man who gave them away for free, as part of a larger lot, including exotic curtains, a water pipe, some odd paintings depicting a tall guy who might, or might not have been a pop musician. and so on.

The boy can't for the life of him decipher the messy handwriting that's on the label of the disks. But he is entranced, enthralled, mesmerized by the beauty of what he hears - this even makes him temporarily forget the grief and sorrow he is going through these days. He thinks: one day I will go on to make music as gorgeous as this... and then we will have world peace.

Don, I want to buy you a beer for that post 

[Shady]

...and as we speak, somewhere in the American heartland, in a remote village, a 9-year old boy is spinning a rather weird looking record on an old Dansette. His dad, recently deceased, had bought a small set of those strange records in some car boot sale, or rather, he got them from the friendly old man who gave them away for free, as part of a larger lot, including exotic curtains, a water pipe, some odd paintings depicting a tall guy who might, or might not have been a pop musician. and so on.

The boy can't for the life of him decipher the messy handwriting that's on the label of the disks. But he is entranced, enthralled, mesmerized by the beauty of what he hears - this even makes him temporarily forget the grief and sorrow he is going through these days. He thinks: one day I will go on to make music as gorgeous as this... and then we will have world peace.

Absolutely hilarious..

Actually the last two pages of this thread have been comedy gold

 

[donald]

Just noticed some important anniversaries that coincide with the release of SMiLE.

140th anniv. of Catherine O'Learys cow starting a fire in Chicago and the 100th of the great stockyard fire in that same town. 

Is anyone superstitious?

[Catbirdman]

I feel like a kid in early December anticipating Christmas. What might end up under the tree? In my wildest daydreams, I'm coming up with all kinds of stuff. Wouldn't it be nice...

1. A newly-discovered "Air" piano piece, recorded at an unlogged session in November, based on the tag to Holidays, accompanied by the Boys making unearthly, bended, chromatic "whoosh" noises that almost impossibly harmonize with each other.

2. A previously unheard vocal session for Child Is Father Of The Man, including "cowboy" lead vocals by Dennis and gorgeous, swirling, mmmms and aaaaaahs layered over the lonely piano section.

3. The October 11 Cabin Essence session, which turns out to be an unused section, over which the "reconnected telephone" lyrics comfortably sit... and to top it off, they find that the December 6 vocal session features Brian singing that lead (with backing group "doobie-doo"s throughout).

4. A late-November comp tape found in a box that intriguingly reads "Great Shape (Barnyard nu - 11/29)." The pieces are not edited together, but the tape contains the three versions of the Shape backing track, some rousing takes of "Do A Lot" in a complimentary key, featuring syncopated toothbrush noises and handclaps (against Brian's piano backing), the "barnyard" piece with a fuller assortment of animal noises, and a previously unheard a capella stunner featuring lyrics about Barnyard Billy and his chickens playing hopscotch in Haymarket Square, with Van Dykean puns woven throughout. For disc one, Mark Linett, guided by Brian, sequences the bits together and ends it with "Friday Night."

5. The January 23 session for Surf's Up is finally returned by a collector and it reveals a string and horn arrangement that rivals Bartok. Atonal in spots, beautifully resolving in others, it washes through the meter like waves on a beach. Hal provides some muffled percussion on found objects, and Carl plays sustained notes on the guitar that shimmer against the controlled cacophony like a tuning fork. Oh, and on disc one, Mark flies in the demo vocal to complete SMiLE's masterpiece. The tag doesn't feature the "child" lyrics, but the energy of the brass in this section must be heard to be believed.

6. A mid-March epic mixdown of Heroes and Villains. It starts inauspiciously with the main verses, featuring both the "see what you've done" chorus and the cantina section (with the "woo-woo-woo" of course), followed by the earlier "children were raised" section and the "three score and five" verse into the "dum dum dum" tape explosion. Then it goes absolutely nutty. The "intro" section, enhanced by barroom brawl SFX pillaged from the November "Shape," leads into "Gee" and the four "part two" vocal variations. A quick "Soul Made Beautiful" vocal leads into a newly-discovered, early version of the "sunny down snuff" verse, which is slightly faster, chirpier, and backed by Brian's piano. A second "see what you've done" chorus follows, and (just like on BWPS), "Bridge to Indians" then leads into the "Prelude to Fade." Carl's "doot-doo, be dooby doo" vocal over the re-recorded "False Barnyard" then closes the track.

7. Turns out Brian DID record the knife-and-fork symphony after all. When Alan Boyd discovered a short, rhythmic piece featuring whistling glasses filled with varying levels of water, sawing sounds of knives against the tabletop, tinkling wind chimes hitting against assorted cutlery, and an unusually-mic'd Mike Love finger-popping into a resonating Dutch oven, Brian suddenly remembered its purpose: it was to follow OMP/YAMS at the very end of the album, and would repeat in the runout groove. The liner notes of the box set reveal that Van Dyke recalls that Derek Taylor was wild over this idea, and subsequently the Beatles had their sudden inspiration to end "Pepper" in a similar manner.

But hell, I'll be happy with a clean version of "Holidays" to tell the truth. Roll on summer!

[Don_Zabu]

Just noticed some important anniversaries that coincide with the release of SMiLE.

140th anniv. of Catherine O'Learys cow starting a fire in Chicago and the 100th of the great stockyard fire in that same town. 

Is anyone superstitious?

-faceslap-

[Mahalo]

I feel like a kid in early December anticipating Christmas. What might end up under the tree? In my wildest daydreams, I'm coming up with all kinds of stuff. Wouldn't it be nice...

1. A newly-discovered "Air" piano piece, recorded at an unlogged session in November, based on the tag to Holidays, accompanied by the Boys making unearthly, bended, chromatic "whoosh" noises that almost impossibly harmonize with each other.

2. A previously unheard vocal session for Child Is Father Of The Man, including "cowboy" lead vocals by Dennis and gorgeous, swirling, mmmms and aaaaaahs layered over the lonely piano section.

3. The October 11 Cabin Essence session, which turns out to be an unused section, over which the "reconnected telephone" lyrics comfortably sit... and to top it off, they find that the December 6 vocal session features Brian singing that lead (with backing group "doobie-doo"s throughout).

4. A late-November comp tape found in a box that intriguingly reads "Great Shape (Barnyard nu - 11/29)." The pieces are not edited together, but the tape contains the three versions of the Shape backing track, some rousing takes of "Do A Lot" in a complimentary key, featuring syncopated toothbrush noises and handclaps (against Brian's piano backing), the "barnyard" piece with a fuller assortment of animal noises, and a previously unheard a capella stunner featuring lyrics about Barnyard Billy and his chickens playing hopscotch in Haymarket Square, with Van Dykean puns woven throughout. For disc one, Mark Linett, guided by Brian, sequences the bits together and ends it with "Friday Night."

5. The January 23 session for Surf's Up is finally returned by a collector and it reveals a string and horn arrangement that rivals Bartok. Atonal in spots, beautifully resolving in others, it washes through the meter like waves on a beach. Hal provides some muffled percussion on found objects, and Carl plays sustained notes on the guitar that shimmer against the controlled cacophony like a tuning fork. Oh, and on disc one, Mark flies in the demo vocal to complete SMiLE's masterpiece. The tag doesn't feature the "child" lyrics, but the energy of the brass in this section must be heard to be believed.

6. A mid-March epic mixdown of Heroes and Villains. It starts inauspiciously with the main verses, featuring both the "see what you've done" chorus and the cantina section (with the "woo-woo-woo" of course), followed by the earlier "children were raised" section and the "three score and five" verse into the "dum dum dum" tape explosion. Then it goes absolutely nutty. The "intro" section, enhanced by barroom brawl SFX pillaged from the November "Shape," leads into "Gee" and the four "part two" vocal variations. A quick "Soul Made Beautiful" vocal leads into a newly-discovered, early version of the "sunny down snuff" verse, which is slightly faster, chirpier, and backed by Brian's piano. A second "see what you've done" chorus follows, and (just like on BWPS), "Bridge to Indians" then leads into the "Prelude to Fade." Carl's "doot-doo, be dooby doo" vocal over the re-recorded "False Barnyard" then closes the track.

7. Turns out Brian DID record the knife-and-fork symphony after all. When Alan Boyd discovered a short, rhythmic piece featuring whistling glasses filled with varying levels of water, sawing sounds of knives against the tabletop, tinkling wind chimes hitting against assorted cutlery, and an unusually-mic'd Mike Love finger-popping into a resonating Dutch oven, Brian suddenly remembered its purpose: it was to follow OMP/YAMS at the very end of the album, and would repeat in the runout groove. The liner notes of the box set reveal that Van Dyke recalls that Derek Taylor was wild over this idea, and subsequently the Beatles had their sudden inspiration to end "Pepper" in a similar manner.

But hell, I'll be happy with a clean version of "Holidays" to tell the truth. Roll on summer!

Catbirdman...that was beautiful. 

[Chris Moise]

I feel like a kid in early December anticipating Christmas. What might end up under the tree? In my wildest daydreams, I'm coming up with all kinds of stuff. Wouldn't it be nice...

That was awesome!

[rab2591]

But hell, I'll be happy with a clean version of "Holidays" to tell the truth. Roll on summer!

Honestly, that is one of the main reasons I will end up spending $150 on this set. To get all the goodies with the four disk set to hear more of Holidays. It is my absolute favorite song on BWPS right now, and I can't wait to hear the vintage version cleaned up *crossing my fingers hoping they release a cleaned up version*

[donald]

catbirdman,,,,,,,


post #1??