Mike the dominant creative force when it came to conceptual content?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Agreed, Century, with one caveat...I think Mike had full awareness of what the term implied in regards to Brian.

[Cyncie]

All year, Mike's been pushing his version of "I'm a genius too,  Brian!" I can't decide if he secretly realizes that walking away from C50 was  a mistake that is costing him big legacy points, or if he's worried about how he's going to be portrayed in the various "Year of Brian" projects.

Either way, his work with the band stands alone and deserves to be recognized. The rest isn't helping.

[Pretty Funky]

7 pages about 1 statement and counting.

This site is going to crash when Mike's book comes out!

[CenturyDeprived]

Agreed, Century, with one caveat...I think Mike had full awareness of what the term implied in regards to Brian.

Billy, I guess what I meant regarding lack of awareness is lack of how it could come off to others by saying it. I cannot fathom someone close to Brian innocuously and happily using the term "dominate" or "dominant" in a positive light, after his well-known history. Regardless of intention, I think history has shown it's a bit "inappropriate" for that word to be used in the same sentence as Brian, to use a term that Carl liked to use. IMHO.

[Autotune]

BW didn't need Mike to have hits, or to chart his band's course.

That's controversial. He needed him to have a #1 hit. Unless said hit was a collaboration with Jan Berry. It took Asher to disappear and Mike to write the lyrics to GV in order for the BBs to score a monster hit again. So arguably yeah, Brian could do pretty good without Mike both artisically and chart-wise; but Mike made a difference sales-wise, and he was able to complement Brian's introspective and artistic needs as well as any lyricist. Asher was good, but Mike was on a roll back then. And if he wants to shove it up people's faces and exert all his teenage-like bravado while at it, I can forgive him. He's cool by me anyway. He doesn't do me any harm.

Oh, and Add Some: stop moaning, please, and bring back your photo with Mike avatar.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

It took Asher to disappear and Mike to write the lyrics to GV in order for the BBs to score a monster hit.

Uhhh....they had monster hits before GV (and some of them were co-written by Mike, too).

[SMiLE Brian]

Add some won the thread today! 

[SMiLE Brian]

I could list the more than 500 songs that BW is credited with in the BMI database. So?

Exactly. Hell, I've written and recorded 527 songs (not a typo) since 2001...does that mean I'm dominant conceptually? Am I Brian's equal?!

When is MIC (Made in Castillo's) coming out?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Actually thinkING about doing a boxed set called Roll Your Own.

[Autotune]

It took Asher to disappear and Mike to write the lyrics to GV in order for the BBs to score a monster hit.

Uhhh....they had monster hits before GV (and some of them were co-written by Mike, too).

"...to score a monster hit AGAIN". Fixed. Thanks.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

But that implies that the hits had run out before GV! So Sloop John B was a  bomb?  Seriously...you're not helping your argument.
Your statement basically says going with Asher was a mistake...you might be alone in that.  Even Mike would say you're incorrect.

[Cam Mott]

And thus another damning quote from Mike is turned into gold by Cam.

It's totally innocuous! We're putting words in his mouth! Listen, the statement is utterly clear about what's going on, and about what Mike is saying both directly and indirectly.

Love: Find someone with which to collaborate, someone whose strengths complement your strengths. That's the thing I did with my cousin Brian. He was a gifted arranger and composer of music, but lyrically and conceptually, I was always the dominant creative force in that relationship. Collaboration is key.

We've established Mike wasn't the dominant creative force in the group. (And that was totally the implication Mike was making. You're naive to think otherwise.)

If we need to go through the BW/ML co-writes we can, but I think it's pretty clear that he wasn't "always" the dominant creative force there, either. As though contributing four words to "Wouldn't it Be Nice" or a hook to "I Get Around" or a child's singsong chant to "Kokomo" is being dominant. He's adding a bit of icing to a cake that's already baked and decorated, and then demanding that we all recognize him as a master pastry chef.

You post the quote and then put words in Mike's mouth in your explanation of how you aren't putting words in his mouth while calling me naïve. His statement is all about his relationship in collaboration with Brian and his claim is specific to that relationship. Not in the group, he didn't mention the group, if we've established it, it is irrelevant to Mike's statement.

Please do go through all of the BW/ML co-writes so we don't just depend on your opinion of just a few cherry picked BW/ML collaborations.

[Cam Mott]

So now we have gone way beyond Mike's words and hold him responsible for things he didn't say.

That seems to be happening with others than just Mike.

Case in point...

It just seems ridiculous to me to assert that Mike did not make huge lyrical contributions and concepts. 

Nobody is saying that!

If nobody is saying that then we all agree Mike is right. Let's all hug!

Giving him his fair credit for making important contributions lyrically is not saying the same thing as saying he was the dominant CONCEPTUAL force behind the band.

No and he didn't say the band he said it specific to his and Brian's collaborative relationship.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Right, Cam,  he sure did, and it's still incorrect. Perhaps now is the time  to visit good old Websters and look up what 'conceptually ' means. I can wait.

While I await your return,  let me also say this...  the 'concept ' of the Beach Boys? You can say it was Dennis's idea, in that it was his idea to do a song about surfing (when said song had yet to be written ). You can credit Russ Regan  in naming the band.  Cant say it was Mike. Talking about specifically between Mike and Brian...if he was so dominant,  then why in the hell did it take him decades to get the songwriting credits? If he was so dominant,  then why in the hell did he have to even whine about Brian fucking with the formula? If he was so dominant. ...THEN WHY DID THEY NOT DO ANY FUN IN THE SUN SONGS (save Do it Again) for many, many years? Or maybe you think that was Mike's idea too. In that case. ..Mike f***ed with his own formula. Huh. Imagine that. And before you say again that we're just talking about Brian and Mike I'm am well aware of that...just kind of proves that Mike was a one trick pony (at the time). Brian wanted to do different sounds, so he did with others.  When he wanted a return to the old style, he got Mike involved again. I wouldn't call that 'Mike being conceptually dominant '. Some people (not me) would call that him being Brian's bitch (which would explain some of the resentment ).

[Wirestone]

Cam, it's not me who said "I was always the dominant creative force in that relationship."

It was Mike who said always. Not me. Not you.

And if he said "always," by your usual logic, that means he meant always. And Mike is listed as the co-writer of "Wouldn't it Be Nice." He's listed as the co-writer of "I Get Around." He's listed as the co-writer of "Shut Down." He's their rightful co-author.

So was he the dominant creative force in the writing of those songs? He says he always was when working with Brian.

And if you say, well, he doesn't mean what he says, there has to be some sort of interpretation of his words, then that leads us to a lot of interesting places, doesn't it? We can interpret a lot of things from Mike's words over the past few years.

But no, you say, Mike has to be taken absolutely literally. Just like Marilyn Wilson, just like Brian when it happens to support your theories. Mike surely wouldn't lie or exaggerate or stretch the truth to embellish his role in the band's glory days, would he? We just need to look at his precise words.

So fine. Let's do that.

Mike says he always dominated. So how did he dominate the creation and writing of WIBN, IGA and Shut Down? Tell us. Or is he lying?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

BW didn't need Mike to have hits, or to chart his band's course.

That's controversial. He needed him to have a #1 hit. Unless said hit was a collaboration with Jan Berry.

In other words, Brian didn't need Mike to have a #1 hit.

[tpesky]

This: endless syncopation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfs7jm3uJdM&index=21&list=PL03A597537BC4CD3B

Some little boy's dog (probably named "Wrinkles") must have been run over by Mike when they were a little.

I hope nobody makes one of these turds for the rest of the band members.

God how absolutely miserable do Carl and Al look in that interview with the 4 of them.

[sea of tunes]

"Maybe not in the top of the charts always.  Until of course Kokomo came along that went to #1 and uh..." - M.E. Love

 

[Pretty Funky]

Remember this blurb a few years back?

'In 1974 Mike Love’s concept album Endless Summer ignited a second generation of Beach Boys fans and stirred a tempest that rocked the music world.'


I think Mike's idea of 'concept' may differ from most.

[clack]

My interpretation : Mike is saying that in their partnership, Brian wrote and arranged the music, and that together they came up with the song concept ( the subject matter ), and that together they co-wrote the lyrics -- and it is in the concepts and the lyrics that Mike contributed more than did Brian.

[Mike's Beard]

My interpretation : Mike is saying that in their partnership, Brian wrote and arranged the music, and that together they came up with the song concept ( the subject matter ), and that together they co-wrote the lyrics -- and it is in the concepts and the lyrics that Mike contributed more than did Brian.

That's exactly how I interpretated his statement also. Giving Mike his due to what he brought to the band in the early days doesn't diminish Brian's massive achievements but some always act as if it does.

[Cam Mott]

Right, Cam,  he sure did, and it's still incorrect. Perhaps now is the time  to visit good old Websters and look up what 'conceptually ' means. I can wait.

While I await your return,  let me also say this...  the 'concept ' of the Beach Boys? You can say it was Dennis's idea, in that it was his idea to do a song about surfing (when said song had yet to be written ). You can credit Russ Regan  in naming the band.  Cant say it was Mike. Talking about specifically between Mike and Brian...if he was so dominant,  then why in the hell did it take him decades to get the songwriting credits? If he was so dominant,  then why in the hell did he have to even whine about Brian fucking with the formula? If he was so dominant. ...THEN WHY DID THEY NOT DO ANY FUN IN THE SUN SONGS (save Do it Again) for many, many years? Or maybe you think that was Mike's idea too. In that case. ..Mike f***ed with his own formula. Huh. Imagine that. And before you say again that we're just talking about Brian and Mike I'm am well aware of that...just kind of proves that Mike was a one trick pony (at the time). Brian wanted to do different sounds, so he did with others.  When he wanted a return to the old style, he got Mike involved again. I wouldn't call that 'Mike being conceptually dominant '. Some people (not me) would call that him being Brian's bitch (which would explain some of the resentment ).

It means he came up with ideas for lyrics more often than Brian when they wrote songs together.

The first part of your 2nd paragraph doesn't apply because Mike is only talking about he and Brian in collaboration.  In the rest you are welcome to your own opinions but as you said you realize Mike was only referring to their collaboration so I'm not sure of your point in all of that.

[Cam Mott]

My interpretation : Mike is saying that in their partnership, Brian wrote and arranged the music, and that together they came up with the song concept ( the subject matter ), and that together they co-wrote the lyrics -- and it is in the concepts and the lyrics that Mike contributed more than did Brian.

That's exactly how I interpretated his statement also. Giving Mike his due to what he brought to the band in the early days doesn't diminish Brian's massive achievements but some always act as if it does.

I agree with both of you.

[Cam Mott]

Cam, it's not me who said "I was always the dominant creative force in that relationship."

It was Mike who said always. Not me. Not you.

And if he said "always," by your usual logic, that means he meant always. And Mike is listed as the co-writer of "Wouldn't it Be Nice." He's listed as the co-writer of "I Get Around." He's listed as the co-writer of "Shut Down." He's their rightful co-author.

So was he the dominant creative force in the writing of those songs? He says he always was when working with Brian.

And if you say, well, he doesn't mean what he says, there has to be some sort of interpretation of his words, then that leads us to a lot of interesting places, doesn't it? We can interpret a lot of things from Mike's words over the past few years.

But no, you say, Mike has to be taken absolutely literally. Just like Marilyn Wilson, just like Brian when it happens to support your theories. Mike surely wouldn't lie or exaggerate or stretch the truth to embellish his role in the band's glory days, would he? We just need to look at his precise words.

So fine. Let's do that.

Mike says he always dominated. So how did he dominate the creation and writing of WIBN, IGA and Shut Down? Tell us. Or is he lying?

Clay, Mike didn't say that either. He said "lyrically and conceptually, I was always the dominant creative force in that relationship". So when he and Brian wrote together, not he and Brian and somebody else, in a relationship he had always come up with more of the lyrics and concepts. Not all but more.

I didn't say they don't mean what they say, I'm saying he and Marilyn mean what they say.

Re. your small hand full of song titles: always dominant lyrically/conceptually in their songwriting relationship is the claim so that could be Mike being the lyrical/conceptual guy once more than half or a few less than all or somewhat more than Brian all of the time. You are challenging Mike's claim, what have you got?

[Autotune]

But that implies that the hits had run out before GV! So Sloop John B was a  bomb?  Seriously...you're not helping your argument.
Your statement basically says going with Asher was a mistake...you might be alone in that.  Even Mike would say you're incorrect.

Sloop was not a monster hit. And had no involvement from Asher. Brian's biggest hits in the 60s with the exception of Surf City are co-writes with Love. So, back to my initial point, Brian did not need Mike to score a hit, but he scored bigger hits with him.