Mike the dominant creative force when it came to conceptual content?

[CenturyDeprived]

Exactly, Mike needs to puff himself up for no reason. I don't see Tony Asher or VDP doing the same stuff on a consistent basis.

Well, he has a reason. He did cowrite a significant streak of hits with Brian in the 60s. That's undeniable, and it was a remarkable achievement (I say that non-sarcastically, but legitimately), but that probably warped his way of thinking (ie. he got a big head over it). Kokomo without Brian really sealed the deal in that department. Does Mike not think he has a big head and inflated ego, or that he brags too much? And if he does not, who would he (or any diehard Kokomoaists) quantify as an example of someone else with a big head and inflated ego who brags too much?

[filledeplage]

Exactly, Mike needs to puff himself up for no reason. I don't see Tony Asher or VDP doing the same stuff on a consistent basis.

Well, he has a reason. He did cowrite a significant streak of hits with Brian in the 60s. That's undeniable, and it was a remarkable achievement (I say that non-sarcastically, but legitimately), but that probably warped his way of thinking (ie. he got a big head over it). Kokomo without Brian really sealed the deal in that department. Does Mike not think he has a big head and inflated ego, or that he brags too much? And if he does not, who he (or any uber Mike defenders) quantify as an example of someone with a big head and inflated ego who brags too much?

IIRC - Landy was the reason with Kokomo, as I learned, on this forum, but that Brian sang on the Spanish version. John Phillips, Scott McKenzie and Terry Melcher co-wrote. And on EH it was clear that both Mike and Brian would have wanted Brian's involvement. 

If it was an interview there were questions that Mike responded to.

[CenturyDeprived]

Exactly, Mike needs to puff himself up for no reason. I don't see Tony Asher or VDP doing the same stuff on a consistent basis.

Well, he has a reason. He did cowrite a significant streak of hits with Brian in the 60s. That's undeniable, and it was a remarkable achievement (I say that non-sarcastically, but legitimately), but that probably warped his way of thinking (ie. he got a big head over it). Kokomo without Brian really sealed the deal in that department. Does Mike not think he has a big head and inflated ego, or that he brags too much? And if he does not, who he (or any uber Mike defenders) quantify as an example of someone with a big head and inflated ego who brags too much?

IIRC - Landy was the reason with Kokomo, as I learned, on this forum, but that Brian sang on the Spanish version. John Phillips, Scott McKenzie and Terry Melcher co-wrote.

If it was an interview there were questions that Mike responded to.

Sure, I am not blaming Mike for Brian's non-appearance on the US Kokomo. I wasn't sure if you thought that was my line of thinking, but it wasn't. Still, for a guy who probably wants to prove himself, he was likely very happy to have had such a massive hit (in and of itself), let alone without anyone being able to say it was mainly due to Brian's magic touch. Nobody could say that with Kokomo.

[bossaroo]

Kokomo was mainly a John Phillips song. the concept and most of the lyrics are his.

[Mike's Beard]

Exactly, Mike needs to puff himself up for no reason. I don't see Tony Asher or VDP doing the same stuff on a consistent basis.

Well, he has a reason. He did cowrite a significant streak of hits with Brian in the 60s. That's undeniable, and it was a remarkable achievement (I say that non-sarcastically, but legitimately), but that probably warped his way of thinking (ie. he got a big head over it). Kokomo without Brian really sealed the deal in that department. Does Mike not think he has a big head and inflated ego, or that he brags too much? And if he does not, who would he (or any diehard Kokomoaists) quantify as an example of someone else with a big head and inflated ego who brags too much?

Sure Mike is a bragger - if I'd co-written 4 US #1s I'd be braggin too! Is he not allowed to take pride in what he has accomplished when giving interviews?

[CenturyDeprived]

Exactly, Mike needs to puff himself up for no reason. I don't see Tony Asher or VDP doing the same stuff on a consistent basis.

Well, he has a reason. He did cowrite a significant streak of hits with Brian in the 60s. That's undeniable, and it was a remarkable achievement (I say that non-sarcastically, but legitimately), but that probably warped his way of thinking (ie. he got a big head over it). Kokomo without Brian really sealed the deal in that department. Does Mike not think he has a big head and inflated ego, or that he brags too much? And if he does not, who would he (or any diehard Kokomoaists) quantify as an example of someone else with a big head and inflated ego who brags too much?

Sure Mike is a bragger - if I'd co-written 4 US #1s I'd be braggin too! Is he not allowed to take pride in what he has accomplished when giving interviews?

I understand you feel that way about Mike, but do you believe that it is humanly possible that people can brag *too much*? Even people who have legit accomplishments? Is that possible? Where would you draw that line?

[bossaroo]

there's a difference between bragging about some hits you co-wrote and proclaiming yourself the dominant creative force in the band.

[Don Malcolm]

I would draw the line by closing this incredibly tiresome thread.... 

[Mike's Beard]

Exactly, Mike needs to puff himself up for no reason. I don't see Tony Asher or VDP doing the same stuff on a consistent basis.

Well, he has a reason. He did cowrite a significant streak of hits with Brian in the 60s. That's undeniable, and it was a remarkable achievement (I say that non-sarcastically, but legitimately), but that probably warped his way of thinking (ie. he got a big head over it). Kokomo without Brian really sealed the deal in that department. Does Mike not think he has a big head and inflated ego, or that he brags too much? And if he does not, who would he (or any diehard Kokomoaists) quantify as an example of someone else with a big head and inflated ego who brags too much?

Sure Mike is a bragger - if I'd co-written 4 US #1s I'd be braggin too! Is he not allowed to take pride in what he has accomplished when giving interviews?

I understand you feel that way about Mike but do you believe that it is possible that people can brag *too much*? Even people who have legit accomplishments? Is that possible? Where would you draw that line?

If Mike started telling the mailman everytime he came to the door that he was the guy who had a #1 with Kokomo or told the guy behind the counter at the grocery store that he came up with the hook to Good Vibrations whenever he dropped in to pick up a quart of apple juice, then yes that would be taking it too far. But mentioning his achievements in an interview, I can't see the problem.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Misinformation? Asher was heavily involved in that era.  No one is suggesting otherwise.  But, that material had to be digested by the live audiences and Asher wasn't the one at whom tomatoes would be tossed if an audience thought a song or performance was crap.  And who knew what would "work" with various crowds.  That would be Mike who was on the front lines in that era.  It is almost like a political speech writer who gives a politician or candidate a speech that the candidate knows isn't going to work with a certain constituency.  It could be a good speech, but won't garner a single vote.  

I never said anyone was claiming that Asher wasn't heavily involved in that era. Just saying that Brian (and possibly Asher) deserves credit for the concept of Good Vibrations, not Mike. And, yet again, I'm not disputing that Mike was a better man for the job regarding lyrics. His lyrics were indeed FAR better (lightyears better), and that the song went to #1 is a testament to his brilliance at songwriting. But again, the concept didn't deviate much from what Asher had already written prior. So Mike getting credit for the concept is ridiculous.

Rab2591 - first, please respond outside my response.  If it is re-quoted, it appears as though I wrote that. You can make your point outside "my space."  

Second, what is the purpose of re-writing history?  Whether the theme of "good vibrations" was bantered about in whatever context, by whichever people, is largely irrelevant now.  The single came out in 1966.  And, it wasn't Asher's version.  It is a fait accompli, nearly 50 years ago.  Tony's lyrics for God Only Knows are fully credited on the flip of the 45
rpm of Wouldn't It Be Nice.  It is how the ball bounces.  

And, while we might think they are all brilliant, I would guess that some is concept, whether melody or lyrical, coupled with hard work.  And lots of trial and error. This morning, I watched some '09 Christmas Brian vocal sessions, and it appears that they (Brian's band) worked and reworked phrasing, sections and parts.  

And, in some other Brian interview, he talked about being so "next to something" that they all had to get away and "chuck it (Smile) for awhile."  It is subtitled in French.  And it seems to be clipped from An American Band.

According to what I'm seeing I did respond outside of your response box. But perhaps I'm missing something.

Secondly, I'm not claiming anyone is rewriting history, just getting their facts wrong. It may be irrelevant to you, but it's mildly annoying to see Mike get credit for something he didn't do. Not sure why bringing it up is an unreasonable reaction on my part.

My bad. I mean the yellow screaming highlighting.

Actually, I would be curious to know myself it that is against the rules - considering changing/re-wording text is a violation, it would make sense that bolding or changing color of a quote would almost fall under that. Apologies if it is against the rules. Was merely trying to clarify what portion of your post I was responding to.

It's not...it was done to clarify what you were referring to.  no rule broken.

[CenturyDeprived]

Exactly, Mike needs to puff himself up for no reason. I don't see Tony Asher or VDP doing the same stuff on a consistent basis.

Well, he has a reason. He did cowrite a significant streak of hits with Brian in the 60s. That's undeniable, and it was a remarkable achievement (I say that non-sarcastically, but legitimately), but that probably warped his way of thinking (ie. he got a big head over it). Kokomo without Brian really sealed the deal in that department. Does Mike not think he has a big head and inflated ego, or that he brags too much? And if he does not, who would he (or any diehard Kokomoaists) quantify as an example of someone else with a big head and inflated ego who brags too much?

Sure Mike is a bragger - if I'd co-written 4 US #1s I'd be braggin too! Is he not allowed to take pride in what he has accomplished when giving interviews?

I understand you feel that way about Mike but do you believe that it is possible that people can brag *too much*? Even people who have legit accomplishments? Is that possible? Where would you draw that line?

If Mike started telling the mailman everytime he came to the door that he was the guy who had a #1 with Kokomo or told the guy behind the counter at the grocery store that he came up with the hook to Good Vibrations whenever he dropped in to pick up a quart of apple juice, then yes that would be taking it too far. But mentioning his achievements in an interview, I can't see the problem.

Got it. So anything less than that extreme example = not taking too far I suppose. Who in your estimation would be an example of a person actually taking things too far in the bragging department? Kanye West maybe?

[Cam Mott]

there's a difference between bragging about some hits you co-wrote and proclaiming yourself the dominant creative force in the band.

Actually it was just in collaboration with Brian.

[Mike's Beard]

Got it. So anything less than that extreme example = not taking too far I suppose. Who in your estimation would be an example of a person actually taking things too far in the bragging department? Kanye West maybe?

The day Mike starts mentioning himself in the same breath as people such as Martin Luther King like that douche did, I will hold my hand up and say he has gone too far.

[Cam Mott]

it's mildly annoying to see Mike get credit for something he didn't do.

there's a difference between getting credit and giving yourself credit, which is all Mike is doing here and what he's done for years. anyone who wants the truth, as opposed to Mike's version of the truth, can discover it without too much difficulty.

I suppose we should be used to these comments from Mike by now, but I still have to shake my head and marvel at his conceit.

Mike seems pretty careful to me to not to inflate his credit in songs, he is usually pretty specific about what he did and what others did.

He does get interviewed a lot and so I suppose he is talking/bragging about his accomplishments a lot.

[CenturyDeprived]

Got it. So anything less than that extreme example = not taking too far I suppose. Who in your estimation would be an example of a person actually taking things too far in the bragging department? Kanye West maybe?

The day Mike starts mentioning himself in the same breath as people such as Martin Luther King like that douche did, I will hold my hand up and say he has gone too far.

Agreed; Kanye is Douchey McDoucherson in the braggart department. Probably the most extreme example ever known in the entertainment industry. (Although, an argument could be made that the Mike-sung, though not Mike-written, "Good Vibrations/Assassinations" lyric, is a not entirely dissimilar same-breath example )

Point is that one doesn't have to fall that far into the Kanye batsh*t crazy territory for it to also be said that they seem to have a pattern of consistently bragging too much, a pattern that ultimately doesn't help their "plight", so to speak. One can be a few steps more modest than Kanye and still go too far.

[KDS]

Comparing Mike Love to Kanye West.  That's kinda mean. 

At least Mike actually has some musical achievements to be proud of. 

I'd put Mike more in the same league as Gene Simmons.  Granted Gene contributed a lot more to Kiss than Mike did to the Beach Boys.  But everytime Gene talks in the press, or in his several books, about Ace Frehley or Peter Criss, he always seems to have something negative to say. 

Although at least Mike doesn't hire Brian Wilson and Al Jardine lookalikes to go onstage with him every night like Gene Simmons does with Ace and Peter. 

[sea of tunes]

It's an incredibly outrageous statement.

Mike has nearly finished rewriting the band's history in his image. It's not enough that he gets to be the lyricist to some of Brian's most successful songs, and the band's onstage front man. He has to now believe he was the band's dominant creative force.

That will be the mission statement of the book, mark my words. It's nuts.

Luckily, history is written by the victors. 

[Douchepool]

Comparing Mike Love to Kanye West.  That's kinda mean. 

At least Mike actually has some musical achievements to be proud of. 

I'd put Mike more in the same league as Gene Simmons.  Granted Gene contributed a lot more to Kiss than Mike did to the Beach Boys.  But everytime Gene talks in the press, or in his several books, about Ace Frehley or Peter Criss, he always seems to have something negative to say. 

Although at least Mike doesn't hire Brian Wilson and Al Jardine lookalikes to go onstage with him every night like Gene Simmons does with Ace and Peter. 

People have compared him to Hitler as well. I'd rather be compared to Kuntye than Hitler, but that's just me.

[bossaroo]

there's a difference between bragging about some hits you co-wrote and proclaiming yourself the dominant creative force in the band.

Actually it was just in collaboration with Brian.

same thing.

[ontor pertawst]

We're all waiting for that dominant creativity and conceptual content to take full flight, Mike! Now that you're unshackled from Al Jardine and forever banished from The Room with Cousin Brian, that solo album should prove once and for all who the real genius is, surely.

 God, it's a shame Radio Shack went bankrupt before they could put it out.

[CenturyDeprived]

We're all waiting for that dominant creativity and conceptual content to take full flight, Mike! Now that you're unshackled from Al Jardine and forever banished from The Room with Cousin Brian, that solo album should prove once and for all who the real genius is, surely.

 God, it's a shame Radio Shack went bankrupt before they could put it out.

That's Why God Made The Radio Shack.

What I legitimately want to know, is why Love's one solo album has next to no songs written or co-written by Love himself, even on the original compositions. So, so odd. I cannot imagine that would happen today. Did some of Mike's other unreleased solo albums have similar very little Mike writing contributions?

[sea of tunes]

"On the record...Mike Love"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-45duZ1Sq38

Interviewed by Wink Martindale.  Comments disabled.

M. E. Love is asked about his solo material at about the 27:30 mark.

[filledeplage]

We're all waiting for that dominant creativity and conceptual content to take full flight, Mike! Now that you're unshackled from Al Jardine and forever banished from The Room with Cousin Brian, that solo album should prove once and for all who the real genius is, surely.

 God, it's a shame Radio Shack went bankrupt before they could put it out.

That's Why God Made The Radio Shack.

What I legitimately want to know, is why Love's one solo album has next to no songs written or co-written by Love himself. So, so odd. I cannot imagine that would happen today. Did some of Mike's other unreleased solo albums have similar very little Mike writing contributions?

Just reread the quote..."Find someone with which to collaborate, someone whose strengths complement your strengths.That's the thing I did with my cousin Brian.  He was a gifted arranger and composer of music, but lyrically and conceptually, I was always the dominant creative force in that relationship.  Collaboration is key."

When I break each sentence down, first Mike gives attribution to Brian's acumen in composition and arrangement. Something wrong with that? Don't think so.

Second, Mike's skills were in lyric and concept, in the word concepts for lyrics.  Something wrong with that? Don't think so.  

That was what Mike brought to that table. He cites "collaboration" as the key ingredient. Most composers work with lyricists.  No different here.  

I  fail to see what is wrong with this comment.   He gave Brian credit, as Brian has given Mike in the past.

The hands of time cannot be turned back to re-make The Beach Boys in a fan's "image and likeness."  They are who they are.  The history is what it is.  Even old Murry. Had he not kicked a few doors down at the outset, we would not be having this discussion now.  

And, maybe if Brian, as a member of this board, and could be reading it, might be offended that people disparage the cousin who did write lyrics for many of his biggest successes, from his early years.  

Blood is still thicker than water.  

[sea of tunes]

"He was a gifted arranger and composer of music, but lyrically and conceptually (pause) I was always the dominant creative force in that relationship. "

Reading it straight away, he is saying that lyrically and conceptually he was the dominant creative force.  We know Mike collaborated on some lyrics.  Some of his songwriting credits are still dubious ("Wouldn't It Be Nice" anyone?).  Brian's strength was not lyrics but he did write his own lyrics.  And as for conceptualizing the songs...  (cough)...  gimme a break.

JCM

[Lee Marshall]

ya ya ya ya ya Filled.  and one more "ya" for good measure.  All that is true.  AND NOT THE PART MOST TAKE ISSUE WITH.

Calling himself the "dominant creative force" is just SO ridiculous that it's merely laughable and oh SO typically Mike Love.  He can't dominate himself a blinkin' solo album of any value or credibility because, after 50 some-odd years, he dominates nothing.  Thank Gawd he wasn't around when Leonardo painted the Mona Lisa.  He'd have added a moustache and told the world that he was the dominant artist.

Mike Love is Mike Love's dominant worst ememy.