Mike the dominant creative force when it came to conceptual content?

[SMiLE Brian]

Exactly, there is no way to spin what Mike said. He is claiming to be the creative force behind the BBs

[filledeplage]

"He was a gifted arranger and composer of music, but lyrically and conceptually (pause) I was always the dominant creative force in that relationship. "

Reading it straight away, he is saying that lyrically and conceptually he was the dominant creative force.  We know Mike collaborated on some lyrics.  Some of his songwriting credits are still dubious ("Wouldn't It Be Nice" anyone?).  Brian's strength was not lyrics but he did write his own lyrics.  And as for conceptualizing the songs...  (cough)...  gimme a break.

JCM

It looked like a partnership as written, with each side's strengths.  People may want to see something different. 

Conceptualizing lyrics.  Not arrangement or composition.

[filledeplage]

Exactly, there is no way to spin what Mike said. He is claiming to be the creative force behind the BBs

No he isn't.  He is claiming his lyricist work.  Not arranging or composing. 

[filledeplage]

ya ya ya ya ya Filled.  and one more "ya" for good measure.  All that is true.  AND NOT THE PART MOST TAKE ISSUE WITH.

Calling himself the "dominant creative force" is just SO ridiculous that it's merely laughable and oh SO typically Mike Love.  He can't dominate himself a blinkin' solo album of any value or credibility because, after 50 some-odd years, he dominates nothing.  Thank Gawd he wasn't around when Leonardo painted the Mona Lisa.  He'd have added a moustache and told the world that he was the dominant artist.

Mike Love is Mike Love's dominant worst ememy.

Dominant for lyrics and he has written very good ones.  And not for Brian's composition or arrangement.

[Lee Marshall]

He didn't say he was the dominant lyricist Filled.  Plainly he said he was the dominant CREATIVE force.  I stand by my initial post on this matter accurately typed and posted on page 2 just after 7:08 eastern daylight savings time this morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
And...over the long haul...the whole 9...the complete body of work...the material not properly relegated to being a concert medley highlight of once upon a time historic oldies...the only thing Mike is back to being dominant at is holding a microphone.

There's a thread here which talks about the era when the Beach Boys peaked as a live act.  The concensus is that they peaked when Mike stepped back a little and when the tambourine wasn't so essential to the realization of a truly great and gifted show.  Then Jack left...and we got 15 bigguns...and slowly but surely it all started to sink.  [thanks to dominance.]

[SMiLE Brian]

Can I play a round of golf with ya next time I am in Canada....

[CenturyDeprived]

There's a thread here which talks about the era when the Beach Boys peaked as a live act.  The concensus is that they peaked when Mike stepped back a little and when the tambourine wasn't so essential to the realization of a truly great and gifted show.  Then Jack left...and we got 15 bigguns...and slowly but surely it all started to sink.  [thanks to dominance.]

It was also nice to see Mike's well-written and thoughtful tribute to Jack that Mike posted on his Facebook page shortly after Jack's passing... oh, wait.

[Lee Marshall]

Can I play a round of golf with ya next time I am in Canada....

If you can put up with my 'game'.  I broke 90...shot an 89...for the first time ever on Wednesday.  T'was my goal this year.  I have now re-set and will try and break 85 before it's all said and done this season.

[maybe when Mike comes in August I can get him to caddy.  Then if I break 85 he can take all of the credit.]

[SMiLE Brian]

He knows no bounds in that department of taking credit!

[filledeplage]

He didn't say he was the dominant lyricist Filled.  Plainly he said he was the dominant CREATIVE force.  I stand by my initial post on this matter accurately typed and posted on page 2 just after 7:08 eastern daylight savings time this morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
And...over the long haul...the whole 9...the complete body of work...the material not properly relegated to being a concert medley highlight of once upon a time historic oldies...the only thing Mike is back to being dominant at is holding a microphone.

There's a thread here which talks about the era when the Beach Boys peaked as a live act.  The concensus is that they peaked when Mike stepped back a little and when the tambourine wasn't so essential to the realization of a truly great and gifted show.  Then Jack left...and we got 15 bigguns...and slowly but surely it all started to sink.  [thanks to dominance.]

Add Some - I have the article open, reading it line by line, and don't see that at all. He appears to be only taking credit for his partnership with lyrics and ideas for lyrics.  There could be "scriveners" errors.  It ain't the NYTimes or WSJ.

That tone of "dominant" overall is just not the theme running though the article.  It is more general, contrasting the touring conditions and acoustics of venues.  This has been "spun" on this board with one word.  JMHO

[CenturyDeprived]

He knows no bounds in that department of taking credit!

Watch this scene from an early episode of "Dallas". Substitute the dialog words "power" or "money" with "credit"...and "Ewing Oil" with "The Beach Boys", and it's eerily accurate  
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGdfPtW56fo&feature=youtu.be&start=85

[Wirestone]

He didn't say he was the dominant lyricist Filled.  Plainly he said he was the dominant CREATIVE force.  I stand by my initial post on this matter accurately typed and posted on page 2 just after 7:08 eastern daylight savings time this morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
And...over the long haul...the whole 9...the complete body of work...the material not properly relegated to being a concert medley highlight of once upon a time historic oldies...the only thing Mike is back to being dominant at is holding a microphone.

There's a thread here which talks about the era when the Beach Boys peaked as a live act.  The concensus is that they peaked when Mike stepped back a little and when the tambourine wasn't so essential to the realization of a truly great and gifted show.  Then Jack left...and we got 15 bigguns...and slowly but surely it all started to sink.  [thanks to dominance.]

Add Some - I have the article open, reading it line by line, and don't see that at all. He appears to be only taking credit for his partnership with lyrics and ideas for lyrics.  There could be "scriveners" errors.  It ain't the NYTimes or WSJ.

That tone of "dominant" overall is just not the theme running though the article.  It is more general, contrasting the touring conditions and acoustics of venues.  This has been "spun" on this board with one word.  JMHO

Nonsense. It's clear what Mike is saying. Yes, he starts the sentence by specifying "lyrically and conceptually" (the second part of which is incredibly questionable), but ends up going to "always the dominant creative force." That's far broader, and far more egregious.

[rab2591]

He knows no bounds in that department of taking credit!

Give me some due!

[Cam Mott]

He didn't say he was the dominant lyricist Filled.  Plainly he said he was the dominant CREATIVE force.  I stand by my initial post on this matter accurately typed and posted on page 2 just after 7:08 eastern daylight savings time this morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
And...over the long haul...the whole 9...the complete body of work...the material not properly relegated to being a concert medley highlight of once upon a time historic oldies...the only thing Mike is back to being dominant at is holding a microphone.

There's a thread here which talks about the era when the Beach Boys peaked as a live act.  The concensus is that they peaked when Mike stepped back a little and when the tambourine wasn't so essential to the realization of a truly great and gifted show.  Then Jack left...and we got 15 bigguns...and slowly but surely it all started to sink.  [thanks to dominance.]

Add Some - I have the article open, reading it line by line, and don't see that at all. He appears to be only taking credit for his partnership with lyrics and ideas for lyrics.  There could be "scriveners" errors.  It ain't the NYTimes or WSJ.

That tone of "dominant" overall is just not the theme running though the article.  It is more general, contrasting the touring conditions and acoustics of venues.  This has been "spun" on this board with one word.  JMHO

Nonsense. It's clear what Mike is saying. Yes, he starts the sentence by specifying "lyrically and conceptually" (the second part of which is incredibly questionable), but ends up going to "always the dominant creative force." That's far broader, and far more egregious.

You left off "in that relationship".

[Lee Marshall]

Which would only make it more inaccurate.  There is no defence for dumb.

[sea of tunes]

He knows no bounds in that department of taking credit!

Give me some due!

"I'm the surf word man!"

[filledeplage]

He didn't say he was the dominant lyricist Filled.  Plainly he said he was the dominant CREATIVE force.  I stand by my initial post on this matter accurately typed and posted on page 2 just after 7:08 eastern daylight savings time this morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
And...over the long haul...the whole 9...the complete body of work...the material not properly relegated to being a concert medley highlight of once upon a time historic oldies...the only thing Mike is back to being dominant at is holding a microphone.

There's a thread here which talks about the era when the Beach Boys peaked as a live act.  The concensus is that they peaked when Mike stepped back a little and when the tambourine wasn't so essential to the realization of a truly great and gifted show.  Then Jack left...and we got 15 bigguns...and slowly but surely it all started to sink.  [thanks to dominance.]

Add Some - I have the article open, reading it line by line, and don't see that at all. He appears to be only taking credit for his partnership with lyrics and ideas for lyrics.  There could be "scriveners" errors.  It ain't the NYTimes or WSJ.

That tone of "dominant" overall is just not the theme running though the article.  It is more general, contrasting the touring conditions and acoustics of venues.  This has been "spun" on this board with one word.  JMHO

Nonsense. It's clear what Mike is saying. Yes, he starts the sentence by specifying "lyrically and conceptually" (the second part of which is incredibly questionable), but ends up going to "always the dominant creative force." That's far broader, and far more egregious.

Reasonable minds can interpret that article differently.

Wirestone - I read that article as a cursory and very broad and non-specific career survey.  Not rocket science.  And I see the "dominant" as confined only to lyrics and themes for songs.  You read it differently.  You find it egregious.  I find it innocuous.

[SMiLE Brian]

He knows no bounds in that department of taking credit!

Give me some due!

"I'm the surf word man!"

Brian was melancholy, I was positivity!

[Wirestone]

Let's break it down by Top 40 songs. This would doubtless be the way Mike prefers to think about it, right? So let's look at the songwriting credits to the band's biggest hits.

Brian / Mike cowrites

"Surfin' Safari"
"Be True to Your School"
"Fun, Fun, Fun"
"When I Grow Up"
"Dance, Dance, Dance" (with Carl)
"California Girls" (though originally credited to BW solo, there has never been serious debate that Mike wrote the lyrics)
"Good Vibrations" (Tony likely deserves a credit for his first-draft lyrics)
"Darlin"
"Wild Honey"
"Do It Again"
"It's OK"

Brian / Gary U. cowrites

"In My Room"

Brian / Roger C. cowrites

"Don't Worry Baby"
"Little Deuce Coupe"
"Shut Down" (Mike credit added through lawsuit)

Brian / Tony A. cowrites

"Wouldn't It Be Nice" (Mike now receives a third of the credit for adding four words)
"God Only Knows"
"Caroline, No"

Brian / Van Dyke cowrites

"Heroes and Villains"

Brian / Carl cowrites

"Good Timin'"

Brian solo

"Surfer Girl"
"The Little Girl I Once Knew"

Originally credited to Brian solo, but with post-lawsuit credit to Mike

"I Get Around" (Mike wrote  the "round, round get around, I get around" bit)
"Help Me Rhonda"

Undefinable

"Surfin' USA" (Credited to Chuck Berry and Brian Wilson, but Mike and Jimmy Bowles have a claim as well.)

Cover versions

"Do You Wanna Dance?"
"Barbara Ann"
"Sloop John B"
"I Can Hear Music"
"Rock and Roll Music"
"Come Go With Me"
"Wipe Out" (With the Fat Boys)

Mike with others

"Getcha Back"
"Kokomo"

Top 40 singles recorded by others, but co-written by Brian

"Surf City"
"Dead Man's Curve"
"The New Girl In School"
"Sidewalk Surfin'"

Of the 34 BB chart singles listed here, Mike has a clear "lyric and concept" claim for 12, including his 11 co-writes with BW and "Getcha Back." Kokomo had been written and recorded before Mike worked on it. That's about 35 percent of the group's top 40 singles.  Brian, solo or with non-Mike others, also wrote 12. (I leave IGA and HMR aside because a case could be made for crediting the main impetus/lyrics to either man.)

Seven of those top 40 hits are cover versions, and Brian is the producer of four. Therefore, you could say that he was the conceptual originator of 16 of the group's hits. You add in the four top 40 tunes he co-wrote for Jan and Dean, and the conclusion should be obvious.

Mike was important collaborator for BW in the group's heyday, no question. His words are in some of the group's greatest hits. But any implication that he's the creative force behind the BBs is belied by the facts. BW didn't need Mike to have hits, or to chart his band's course.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

He didn't say he was the dominant lyricist Filled.  Plainly he said he was the dominant CREATIVE force.  I stand by my initial post on this matter accurately typed and posted on page 2 just after 7:08 eastern daylight savings time this morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
And...over the long haul...the whole 9...the complete body of work...the material not properly relegated to being a concert medley highlight of once upon a time historic oldies...the only thing Mike is back to being dominant at is holding a microphone.

There's a thread here which talks about the era when the Beach Boys peaked as a live act.  The concensus is that they peaked when Mike stepped back a little and when the tambourine wasn't so essential to the realization of a truly great and gifted show.  Then Jack left...and we got 15 bigguns...and slowly but surely it all started to sink.  [thanks to dominance.]

Add Some - I have the article open, reading it line by line, and don't see that at all. He appears to be only taking credit for his partnership with lyrics and ideas for lyrics.  There could be "scriveners" errors.  It ain't the NYTimes or WSJ.

That tone of "dominant" overall is just not the theme running though the article.  It is more general, contrasting the touring conditions and acoustics of venues.  This has been "spun" on this board with one word.  JMHO

Nonsense. It's clear what Mike is saying. Yes, he starts the sentence by specifying "lyrically and conceptually" (the second part of which is incredibly questionable), but ends up going to "always the dominant creative force." That's far broader, and far more egregious.

You left off "in that relationship".

But even that is questionable....it'd be different if Mike had written the lyrics first, handed them to Brian, and said 'hey, write some music to this', when in truth it was either the other way around, or them writing together. Lyrically, well, I have always given Mike his due. Conceptually, well, read my first sentence again. Brian set the tone of the song with his music, and Mike (to his credit) came up with the perfect lyrics for it. If we're being objective here, *neither* was dominant at the time conceptually.

[CenturyDeprived]

He didn't say he was the dominant lyricist Filled.  Plainly he said he was the dominant CREATIVE force.  I stand by my initial post on this matter accurately typed and posted on page 2 just after 7:08 eastern daylight savings time this morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
And...over the long haul...the whole 9...the complete body of work...the material not properly relegated to being a concert medley highlight of once upon a time historic oldies...the only thing Mike is back to being dominant at is holding a microphone.

There's a thread here which talks about the era when the Beach Boys peaked as a live act.  The concensus is that they peaked when Mike stepped back a little and when the tambourine wasn't so essential to the realization of a truly great and gifted show.  Then Jack left...and we got 15 bigguns...and slowly but surely it all started to sink.  [thanks to dominance.]

Add Some - I have the article open, reading it line by line, and don't see that at all. He appears to be only taking credit for his partnership with lyrics and ideas for lyrics.  There could be "scriveners" errors.  It ain't the NYTimes or WSJ.

That tone of "dominant" overall is just not the theme running though the article.  It is more general, contrasting the touring conditions and acoustics of venues.  This has been "spun" on this board with one word.  JMHO

Nonsense. It's clear what Mike is saying. Yes, he starts the sentence by specifying "lyrically and conceptually" (the second part of which is incredibly questionable), but ends up going to "always the dominant creative force." That's far broader, and far more egregious.

You left off "in that relationship".

But even that is questionable....it'd be different if Mike had written the lyrics first, handed them to Brian, and said 'hey, write some music to this', when in truth it was either the other way around, or them writing together. Lyrically, well, I have always given Mike his due. Conceptually, well, read my first sentence again. Brian set the tone of the song with his music, and Mike (to his credit) came up with the perfect lyrics for it. If we're being objective here, *neither* was dominant at the time conceptually.

Do we know if that ever happened? Wasn't it said that Let the Wind Blow and possibly All I Wanna Do were more written in that manner?

[Wirestone]

Pretty sure that Mike wrote the music to LTWB, too. Brian re-arranged it a bit.

[filledeplage]

ML credits

409
Add some Music
All I Wanna do
Amusement Parks USA
All Summer Long
All This is That
And your Dreams Come True
Anna Lee
Aren't You Glad

Be There in the Morning
Be True to your School
Beaches in Mind
Belles of Paris

Brian's Back
California Girls
Cal Saga Big Sur
Catch a Wave
Chug a lug

Cool, Cool Water
Country Air
Custom Machine

Dance, Dance, Dance
Darlin'
Daybreak over the Ocean

Do it Again

Do you remember?
Don't Back Down
Don't Go Near the Water
Don't Hurt My Little Sister
Drive-in

Everyone's in love with You

Farmer's Daughter
Finders Keepers
Fun, Fun, Fun

Getcha Back
Gettin' Hungry

Girl from NY City
Goin' On
Goin' to the Beach
Good to my Baby

GV

Had to phone ya
Hawaii
He Come Down

HMRhonda
HM Ronda

HCTN
How She Boogalooed It
IGA
IKTAA
I'd Love Just Once to see you
I'm Waiting for the Day
In the Back of My Mind
Island Fever
Isn't it ?Time
It's a Beautiful Day
It's OK

Kiss Me Baby
Kokomo
Know coast

Lahaina aloha
Leaving this Town
Let the wind blow
Let us go on this way
Little Honda
Little St. Nick

Make it Big
Male Ego
Mama Says

Man with all the Toys
Match Point of our Love
Meant for you
Melekalikimaka

Noble .surfer
Oh, Darlin'
Only With You
Our Car Club
Our Team

Pitter Patter
Please Let Me Wonder

Rock and Roll to the rescue

Salt Lake City
Santa's Beard
Santa's Got an Airplane
She Knows Me too Well
She's Goin' Bald
She's got rhythm

The Shift
Some of your love
Sounds of Free
Somewhere near Japan
Spring Vacation
Still Cruisin'
Still Surfin'
Strange things Happen
SDTime
Sumahama
Summer in Paradise
Summer of Love
Sunshine
Surfer's Rule
Surfin'
Surfin' Safari
Sweet Sunday Kind of Love

That same Song

A thing or two
This Car of Mine
TM
Under the Boardwalk

Warmth of the Sun
Wendy
When Girls Get together
When I Grow up
Wild Honey
Wontcha come out Tonight
WIBN

A Young Man is Gone
You're so Good To Me

Doesn't write?

From wiki

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

ML credits

409
Add some Music
All I Wanna do
Amusement Parks USA
All Summer Long
All This is That
And your Dreams Come True
Anna Lee
Aren't You Glad

Be There in the Morning
Be True to your School
Beaches in Mind
Belles of Paris

Brian's Back
California Girls
Cal Saga Big Sur
Catch a Wave
Chug a lug

Cool, Cool Water
Country Air
Custom Machine

Dance, Dance, Dance
Darlin'
Daybreak over the Ocean

Do it Again

Do you remember?
Don't Back Down
Don't Go Near the Water
Don't Hurt My Little Sister
Drive-in

Everyone's in love with You

Farmer's Daughter
Finders Keepers
Fun, Fun, Fun

Getcha Back
Gettin' Hungry

Girl from NY City
Goin' On
Goin' to the Beach
Good to my Baby

GV

Had to phone ya
Hawaii
He Come Down

HMRhonda
HM Ronda

HCTN
How She Boogalooed It
IGA
IKTAA
I'd Love Just Once to see you
I'm Waiting for the Day
In the Back of My Mind
Island Fever
Isn't it ?Time
It's a Beautiful Day
It's OK

Kiss Me Baby
Kokomo
Know coast

Lahaina aloha
Leaving this Town
Let the wind blow
Let us go on this way
Little Honda
Little St. Nick

Make it Big
Male Ego
Mama Says

Man with all the Toys
Match Point of our Love
Meant for you
Melekalikimaka

Noble .surfer
Oh, Darlin'
Only With You
Our Car Club
Our Team

Pitter Patter
Please Let Me Wonder

Rock and Roll to the rescue

Salt Lake City
Santa's Beard
Santa's Got an Airplane
She Knows Me too Well
She's Goin' Bald
She's got rhythm

The Shift
Some of your love
Sounds of Free
Somewhere near Japan
Spring Vacation
Still Cruisin'
Still Surfin'
Strange things Happen
SDTime
Sumahama
Summer in Paradise
Summer of Love
Sunshine
Surfer's Rule
Surfin'
Surfin' Safari
Sweet Sunday Kind of Love

That same Song

A thing or two
This Car of Mine
TM
Under the Boardwalk

Warmth of the Sun
Wendy
When Girls Get together
When I Grow up
Wild Honey
Wontcha come out Tonight
WIBN

A Young Man is Gone
You're so Good To Me

Doesn't write?

From wiki

Who said he doesn't write?!

[Wirestone]

I could list the more than 500 songs that BW is credited with in the BMI database. So?