Was David Marks an Founding Member of the Beach Boys?

[Cam Mott]

It's a fine point and probably a pointless point but.....if David was in the band at the time why wasn't it made sure he was at the recording? Carl and Denny had school too. Probably a Mom thing. Anyway who cares.

[Mike's Beard]

Or played on the first batch of demos. Or was present on the long weekend when they hired instruments and offically formed the band. Or played at the first handfull of gigs. Or attended the Hite Morgan audition where they perfomed Sloop John B.  The answer is simple.

[drbeachboy]

It's a fine point and probably a pointless point but.....if David was in the band at the time why wasn't it made sure he was at the recording? Carl and Denny had school too. Probably a Mom thing. Anyway who cares.

Agreed! Almost 4 pages and no minds have been changed.

[bluesno1fann]

so Why didn't David Marks play with the Beach Boys in their first few gigs???

[pixletwin]

It's a fine point and probably a pointless point but.....if David was in the band at the time why wasn't it made sure he was at the recording? Carl and Denny had school too. Probably a Mom thing. Anyway who cares.

Agreed! Almost 4 pages and no minds have been changed.

Nah. You guys changed my mind... About Marks. Not Ringo though.

[Mike's Beard]

so Why didn't David Marks play with the Beach Boys in their first few gigs???

At the risk of causing a brain hemorrhage from banging my head on the wall further, because he wasn't in the fucking group when they first formed. 

[bluesno1fann]

so Why didn't David Marks play with the Beach Boys in their first few gigs???

At the risk of causing a brain hemorrhage from banging my head on the wall further, because he wasn't in the fucking group when they first formed. 

Lol. Your opinion. But I've noticed that more people agree on this discussion that David Marks was a founder than disagree.

[Niko]

so Why didn't David Marks play with the Beach Boys in their first few gigs???

At the risk of causing a brain hemorrhage from banging my head on the wall further, because he wasn't in the fucking group when they first formed. 

Lol. Your opinion. But I've noticed that more people agree on this discussion that David Marks was a founder than disagree.

What he said wasn't an opinion

[Robbie Mac]

It's a fine point and probably a pointless point but.....if David was in the band at the time why wasn't it made sure he was at the recording? Carl and Denny had school too. Probably a Mom thing. Anyway who cares.

That is a damn good question and one that I wish was answered. Another question I would like answered is when did David find out that the Boys went into the studio  and cut Surfin' and Luau?

[bluesno1fann]

so Why didn't David Marks play with the Beach Boys in their first few gigs???

At the risk of causing a brain hemorrhage from banging my head on the wall further, because he wasn't in the fucking group when they first formed. 

Lol. Your opinion. But I've noticed that more people agree on this discussion that David Marks was a founder than disagree.

It sort-of is. His opinion is that David Marks wasn't a member of the Beach Boys when they first formed. Although there's evidence of that, there's just as much evidence that he was a member when they first formed. Fact is, David Marks is a founding member, but that person disagrees, so that's his opinion.
What he said wasn't an opinion


[/quote

[shelter]

It can't be BOTH AL and David.

Sure it can!  Why not?

I can't really imagine the classic Beach Boys (up until David left) with either three guitarists, with Brian as a singer without an instrument, or with Brian playing keys throughout the whole set. So I don't know how all six Beach Boys could've been in the band at the same time back then.

[Mike's Beard]

Let's go through the established timeline carefully.

In the Summer of '61 Al suggests to Brian that they form a group. Mike had also been on at Brian to form a group,  so the 3 of them join together. Brian also drags his younger brother Carl along.

A few months later Al secures them a tryout at Hite Morgan, having made contact with them before with his old band The Islanders. At this point Dennis had also joined the band at his mother's persistence. The 5 kids who go to Hit Morgan Studios to perform Sloop John B. (and maybe one or two other folk standards) are Brian, Mike, Al, Carl and Dennis. No David Marks. At the session Dennis tells the story of how they have written a song about surfing.

On the Labour Day Weekend with their parents out of town, everyone camps to the Wilson house with a rented upright bass to practice. The main focus is the newly written Surfin'. The five kids in the band again consists of Brian, Mike, Al, Carl and Dennis. No bandmember has ever mentioned David Marks being present at these practices in a musical capacity.

A couple of weeks later the band, by now dubbed "The Pendletones" demo Surfin' and two other songs at the Morgan's home studio. David Marks had nothing to do with this session.

At the start of October the five piece band record Surfin', Luau and Lavender at World Pacific Studios. David Marks is not present.

In December the renamed "Beach Boys" make their live debut during a Dick Dale concert. The line-up for the band is again Brian, Mike, Al, Carl and Dennis. No David Marks. The same line-up performs a second gig a week or so later, again without David Marks (is anyone else starting to sense a pattern here?).

Also in December the band make their first ever TV appearance, albeit on a small, local televison channel. David Marks must have been stuck in school YET AGAIN, because again he does not appear.

A handfull of other small time gigs over the next month or so again feature a David Marks free line-up.

In Febuary the guys again record at Pacific Studios. The early version of Surfin' Safari is one of the tracks laid down. And guess what?...that's right, David Marks was not a part of these sessions.

Sometime in the middle of the month Al resigns from the band. However he may have honored any outstanding live commitments he had made prior to leaving. There is speculation that the group may have done a concert or two around this time as a four piece. Roughly 3 weeks after Al splits, David Marks makes his live debut with the band.

Dem's de facts. That we have long time posters and BB fans from waaaay back suddenly posting under the belief that the group had 6 members from day one has me baffled.

[bluesno1fann]

Let's go through the established timeline carefully.

In the Summer of '61 Al suggests to Brian that they form a group. Mike had also been on at Brian to form a group,  so the 3 of them join together. Brian also drags his younger brother Carl along.

A few months later Al secures them a tryout at Hite Morgan, having made contact with them before with his old band The Islanders. At this point Dennis had also joined the band at his mother's persistence. The 5 kids who go to Hit Morgan Studios to perform Sloop John B. (and maybe one or two other folk standards) are Brian, Mike, Al, Carl and Dennis. No David Marks. At the session Dennis tells the story of how they have written a song about surfing.

On the Labour Day Weekend with their parents out of town, everyone camps to the Wilson house with a rented upright bass to practice. The main focus is the newly written Surfin'. The five kids in the band again consists of Brian, Mike, Al, Carl and Dennis. No bandmember has ever mentioned David Marks being present at these practices in a musical capacity.

A couple of weeks later the band, by now dubbed "The Pendletones" demo Surfin' and two other songs at the Morgan's home studio. David Marks had nothing to do with this session.

At the start of October the five piece band record Surfin', Luau and Lavender at World Pacific Studios. David Marks is not present.

In December the renamed "Beach Boys" make their live debut during a Dick Dale concert. The line-up for the band is again Brian, Mike, Al, Carl and Dennis. No David Marks. The same line-up performs a second gig a week or so later, again without David Marks (is anyone else starting to sense a pattern here?).

Also in December the band make their first ever TV appearance, albeit on a small, local televison channel. David Marks must have been stuck in school YET AGAIN, because again he does not appear.

A handfull of other small time gigs over the next month or so again feature a David Marks free line-up.

In Febuary the guys again record at Pacific Studios. The early version of Surfin' Safari is one of the tracks laid down. And guess what?...that's right, David Marks was not a part of these sessions.

Sometime in the middle of the month Al resigns from the band. However he may have honored any outstanding live commitments he had made prior to leaving. There is speculation that the group may have done a concert or two around this time as a four piece. Roughly 3 weeks after Al splits, David Marks makes his live debut with the band.

Dem's de facts. That we have long time posters and BB fans from waaaay back suddenly posting under the belief that the group had 6 members from day one has me baffled.

There's one thing you're missing at least. In your version of what happened, it completely leaves out David Marks rehearsing "Surfin'" with the rest of the Beach Boys/Pendletones. Keep in mind this was just before the Hite Morgan sessions. Then, he was supposed to join them for the sessions, but his mum refused to let him go, she'd rather him go to school instead.
I'm not too sure about the rest of the story, but as far as I know, David was practicing and rehearsing with them since the very start.

It can't be BOTH AL and David.

Sure it can!  Why not?

I can't really imagine the classic Beach Boys (up until David left) with either three guitarists, with Brian as a singer without an instrument, or with Brian playing keys throughout the whole set. So I don't know how all six Beach Boys could've been in the band at the same time back then.

Brian was mainly a pianist, and Al was sort-of the bassist at the start. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Mike's Beard]

Common sense is telling me to walk away from this one but one last try.

There's one thing you're missing at least. In your version of what happened, it completely leaves out David Marks rehearsing "Surfin'" with the rest of the Beach Boys/Pendletones. Keep in mind this was just before the Hite Morgan sessions. Then, he was supposed to join them for the sessions, but his mum refused to let him go, she'd rather him go to school instead.
I'm not too sure about the rest of the story, but as far as I know, David was practicing and rehearsing with them since the very start.

Yes David was close to the Wilsons and had been learning guitar with Carl for some time. He also played in the family sessions that included Murry and Audree. If Brian was trying out some idea in the music room and needed a few extra voices he would rope Carl and Dave into helping him out. David has mentioned that several early BB songs had their genesis in the stuff that he and Carl helped Brian work on. Dave has also said that he attended countless jam sessions at the Wilson house prior to any solid decision to form a band.

BUT it seems the second Brian and Al (and Mike) became serious about forming a group Dave was cut out of the emerging picture. He WASN'T invited to the Hite audition, he WASN'T invited to the Labour Day rehearsal (and when he did drop by was not made particulary welcome by Brian and soon left) and he WASN'T invited to the Surfin' recording.

Where this story that his mother wouldn't let him skip school to attend the session has sprung from, I'm not sure. For YEARS David has told it that he simply wasn't asked.

Anyway I'm done. This thing will just go round and round.

[pixletwin]

So Mikes Beard, are you saying there is an attempt at historical revision going on within the Beach Boys camp?

[Robbie Mac]

So Mikes Beard, are you saying there is an attempt at historical revision going on within the Beach Boys camp?

Can't speak for MB, but I would say "yes", with a little help from influences outside the BB camp.

[drbeachboy]

So Mikes Beard, are you saying there is an attempt at historical revision going on within the Beach Boys camp?

Can't speak for MB, but I would say "yes", with a little help from influences outside the BB camp.

If nothing, clearing it up some. Everything took place in such a short amount of time, that all 6 needed to be represented and they are. There was much flux going on in that short amount of time. Everything from changing band members to changing band names. They didn't even know they were Beach Boys until after the Surfin' single was released.

[Phoenix]

Earlier people compared Dave to Pete Best but the truth is, it was AL who played the Pete role.  He was there as things were gestating but gone by the time of the band's real debut.  Compare: The sessions with the Morgans = the Decca audition tapes.  "Surfin'" = "My Bonnie".  "Surfin' Safari" (the song) = "Love Me Do".  Surfin' Safari (the album) = Please Please Me.  At this point, the band is Brian, Mike, Carl, Dennis, and Dave, while Al is relegated to footnote status.  However, since Al's absence is only temporary, the scenario changes and the band's early days wind up encompassing six different members.

[pixletwin]

Earlier people compared Dave to Pete Best but the truth is, it was AL who played the Pete role.  He was there as things were gestating but gone by the time of the band's real debut.  Compare: The sessions with the Morgans = the Decca audition tapes.  "Surfin'" = "My Bonnie".  "Surfin' Safari" (the song) = "Love Me Do".  Surfin' Safari (the album) = Please Please Me.  At this point, the band is Brian, Mike, Carl, Dennis, and Dave, while Al is relegated to footnote status.  However, since Al's absence is only temporary, the scenario changes and the band's early days wind up encompassing six different members.

Problem with that is, unless I am mistaken, Al still played on every record but Surfin' USA. Right?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Strictly speaking, right. To be more precise, Alan played on "Surfin'" on the first album, but nothing else (obviously), nothing on Surfin' USA, and four tracks on Surfer Girl. David played on everything except "Surfin'" on the first four albums. The probability that he played on "Drive-In" on SDV2 is pretty good in my mind.

[Phoenix]

Earlier people compared Dave to Pete Best but the truth is, it was AL who played the Pete role.  He was there as things were gestating but gone by the time of the band's real debut.  Compare: The sessions with the Morgans = the Decca audition tapes.  "Surfin'" = "My Bonnie".  "Surfin' Safari" (the song) = "Love Me Do".  Surfin' Safari (the album) = Please Please Me.  At this point, the band is Brian, Mike, Carl, Dennis, and Dave, while Al is relegated to footnote status.  However, since Al's absence is only temporary, the scenario changes and the band's early days wind up encompassing six different members.

Problem with that is, unless I am mistaken, Al still played on every record but Surfin' USA. Right?

That's my point, really.  Al's leave was VERY short and his speedy return is what kept him from being the Pet Best footnote.

[Mr. Wilson]

Drive In is on All Summer Long..Sorry AGD..  I like Phoenix answer also.. There are 6 original BB..

[Andrew G. Doe]

Earlier people compared Dave to Pete Best but the truth is, it was AL who played the Pete role.  He was there as things were gestating but gone by the time of the band's real debut.  Compare: The sessions with the Morgans = the Decca audition tapes.  "Surfin'" = "My Bonnie".  "Surfin' Safari" (the song) = "Love Me Do".  Surfin' Safari (the album) = Please Please Me.  At this point, the band is Brian, Mike, Carl, Dennis, and Dave, while Al is relegated to footnote status.  However, since Al's absence is only temporary, the scenario changes and the band's early days wind up encompassing six different members.

Problem with that is, unless I am mistaken, Al still played on every record but Surfin' USA. Right?

That's my point, really.  Al's leave was VERY short and his speedy return is what kept him from being the Pet Best footnote.

Seventeen months is "VERY short" ?

And yes, mea culpa.

[SMiLE Brian]

Mike's Beard is speaking the truth, David Marks is not an original member.

[runnersdialzero]

Pet Best