Was David Marks an Founding Member of the Beach Boys?

[LostArt]

From David's mouth in a Rolling Stone interview last year...

RS: Are you playing on "Surfin'" at that first Beach Boys home recording session?
DM: I was not present at that. I was at school. We rehearsed that song in the music room and it was in the afternoon and I was at school. Shortly after that, however, we did the "Surfin' Safari" demo for Capitol Records.

RS: Was Al Jardine around for much of this time period?
DM: Yeah. Al Jardine was in the very, very beginning of the band. When they were doing local gigs he played the standard bass. He was very into folk-oriented music, like the Kingston Trio. He really wanted to go in that direction. He did stick around for the first Capitol stuff that we did. He wasn't on the first contract, but he did end up participating on the albums. We were actually on "In My Room" and some of those songs together. He was also on "Catch a Wave" from the Surfer Girl album.
Al also did a lot of work with us on the road when Brian decided to stay home on those first tours. Al came on the road with us and did Brian's bass parts and sang his falsetto parts. I would say there were six original Beach Boys, if you really want to get technical.

So while Davis does say that the band played out without him early on, he considers himself an original member, as do I.

[37!ws]

The monument should realistically settle the argument.... It hardly matters anyhow. I mean, isn't Malcolm Young the only founding member of AC/DC??? I don't even know if that's true. I think the older Young brothers actually started the band.

Really? A tagged-up slab on the bottom of an interstate is going to be our official point of reference?

And Jon -- really, you're going to trust Brian's judgment as the official definition, the man said:
- that he was born deaf in his right ear
- that he went deaf in his right ear after Murry hit him
- that he burned the Smile tapes
- that he didn't burn the Smile tapes
- that he only did acid twice?
- that he only did acid once?
- that his favorite movie is Norbitt?
- that Dennis was an asshole?
- that his favorite Beach Boys album is The Beach Boys Love You?
- that his favorite Beach Boys album is Keepin' The Summer Alive?
- that his favorite Beach Boys album is Friends?
- that he wrote "Lay Down Burden" in memory of Carl?

For all we know, if you ask Brian today who should go on the monument, he might say "Mike, Danny Hutton, Gloria Ramos, and me." Tomorrow he might say "Me, Al, and Mike." Next Thursday he might say to put David on there twice. You can't deny that the man can't make up his mind. The only things consistent with Brian: his favorite song/record: "Be My Baby," his favorite album: A Christmas Gift To You From Phil Spector, and his favorite Beatles song: "Let It Be."

[Howie Edelson]

Again???

Is David an "original"?

There's so much about this band that's yet to be discussed -- so much.
And we're back to THIS?
Haven't all the facts been uncovered?
Don't we already have the definitive answer on this?

I rate the question equal to "How tall was Denny?"

[pixletwin]

I rate the question equal to "How tall was Denny?"

I have always  assumed he was 5'9-ish.

Discuss? 

[SMiLE Brian]

How about the 1975-1982 Brian's daily caloric intake?

[Jim V.]

- that his favorite Beach Boys album is Keepin' The Summer Alive?

He never really said this, did he?

[Mikie]

From David's mouth in a Rolling Stone interview last year...

RS: Are you playing on "Surfin'" at that first Beach Boys home recording session?
DM: I was not present at that. I was at school. We rehearsed that song in the music room and it was in the afternoon and I was at school. Shortly after that, however, we did the "Surfin' Safari" demo for Capitol Records.

RS: Was Al Jardine around for much of this time period?
DM: Yeah. Al Jardine was in the very, very beginning of the band. When they were doing local gigs he played the standard bass. He was very into folk-oriented music, like the Kingston Trio. He really wanted to go in that direction. He did stick around for the first Capitol stuff that we did. He wasn't on the first contract, but he did end up participating on the albums. We were actually on "In My Room" and some of those songs together. He was also on "Catch a Wave" from the Surfer Girl album.
Al also did a lot of work with us on the road when Brian decided to stay home on those first tours. Al came on the road with us and did Brian's bass parts and sang his falsetto parts. I would say there were six original Beach Boys, if you really want to get technical.

So while Davis does say that the band played out without him early on, he considers himself an original member, as do I.

The way this reads is that Al was almost a secondary member when they started out. Dave rehearsed the first record but wasn't there for the recording of it. So actually he was in the band at that point. So was Al. Both Al and Dave were playing local gigs. Dave was on the first contract, Al wasn't. Al then bolted, Dave stayed in the band. Then Al came back and recorded on a few album tracks, but wasn't pictured on the album covers. Plus he went on the road to replace Brian. They switched back and forth the first couple of years, then Dave left the band and Al was there to stay until he became a full-fledged Beach Boy in what, 1973?

For some reason, all of this was not known to fans up until somewhere around the 1990's. And the details were still not known until around the time Jon's book came out. I remember discussing it with a fellow fan back in the 70's after I picked up the sheet music to Surfer Girl (Guild Music) and wondering why both David and Al were pictured on the cover sheet. It was confusing back then - the true history of it wasn't known to the average fan. Everybody figured Dave was fired by Murry - I think some article said that Murry tore off Dave's picture on the end of the Surfin' Safari picture sleeve, Murry fired him, and that was it. That's all we knew. Then we found out that Al was in the band before or around the same time as David, and that Al left for Dental school then came back. But NOW we know.......the truth!

[37!ws]

- that his favorite Beach Boys album is Keepin' The Summer Alive?

He never really said this, did he?

Yup. When the album came out. He was asked in an interview what his favorite Beach Boys album was.

[Heysaboda]

The founding members of the Beach Boys are Brian, Carl, Dennis, Mike, and Al. Being a neighbor, friend, guitar buddy, doesn't make one a founding member. But David is about as close as a person can get without actually being one.  

So, if you were to do this for the Beatles, then Ringo is just a replacement member?

I am glad you brought that up.

If you asked any person living in liverpool in 1962 they would say yes, Ringo is a replacement member... and I would agree. Yes. Ringo Starr is not a founding member of the Beatles. Not even close.

Having said that, Pete Best was not a founding member either. John Lennon is technically the only founding member of the Beatles. Though since they wouldn't take that name for 3 more years after he started the group I suppose a case could be made that Paul and George are also founding members of The Beatles.

So, the founding members of the Rolling Stones would be Jagger, Richards, Dick Taylor,  Allen Etherington and Bob Beckwith? Or Jagger, Jones, Taylor, Brian Jones, Ian Stewart, and Tony Chapman?

now I have a headache!   

[Heysaboda]

The monument should realistically settle the argument.... It hardly matters anyhow. I mean, isn't Malcolm Young the only founding member of AC/DC??? I don't even know if that's true. I think the older Young brothers actually started the band.

Really? A tagged-up slab on the bottom of an interstate is going to be our official point of reference?

And Jon -- really, you're going to trust Brian's judgment as the official definition, the man said:
- that he was born deaf in his right ear
- that he went deaf in his right ear after Murry hit him
- that he burned the Smile tapes
- that he didn't burn the Smile tapes
- that he only did acid twice?
- that he only did acid once?
- that his favorite movie is Norbitt?
- that Dennis was an asshole?
- that his favorite Beach Boys album is The Beach Boys Love You?
- that his favorite Beach Boys album is Keepin' The Summer Alive?
- that his favorite Beach Boys album is Friends?
- that he wrote "Lay Down Burden" in memory of Carl?

For all we know, if you ask Brian today who should go on the monument, he might say "Mike, Danny Hutton, Gloria Ramos, and me." Tomorrow he might say "Me, Al, and Mike." Next Thursday he might say to put David on there twice. You can't deny that the man can't make up his mind. The only things consistent with Brian: his favorite song/record: "Be My Baby," his favorite album: A Christmas Gift To You From Phil Spector, and his favorite Beatles song: "Let It Be."

Is it really tagged up?  WOW that's too bad!

[Mr. Wilson]

Well i think BW settled this argument  a few years ago. If you cant agree with the LEADER of the group and the whole reason they exisit (BW) whats the point af arguing.. I was around when the BB 1st started and there was no question David was an original..In the fall of 1963 on a local music show{ Hollywood a go go  KHJ #9 } BB showed up to to lip sync their new 45 release.. BTTYS + IMR. On this show BW introduced Al as the new member.. Now this was a few yrs before we would know the history of the group. When you ad up all available info there are 6 original BB..  No question about it.. Al + David were there at the start goin back + forth weather Al's pic is on the cover. Recording + touring together..BW allways wanted Al back in the group for his voice. It just took Al a yr or so to to do it..

[Sheriff John Stone]

It is a technical question and semantics come into play. It can't be BOTH AL and David. The one person I'm NOT going to rely on for facts is Brian Wilson. And, we already know how Al Jardine feels; he mentions "his story" in every interview lately. Please don't question him about this issue. I don't want him complaining about more stuff...

[Mikie]

It can't be BOTH AL and David.

Sure it can!  Why not?

[Heysaboda]

Really? A tagged-up slab on the bottom of an interstate is going to be our official point of reference?

And Jon -- really, you're going to trust Brian's judgment as the official definition, the man said:
- that he was born deaf in his right ear
- that he went deaf in his right ear after Murry hit him
- that he burned the Smile tapes
- that he didn't burn the Smile tapes
- that he only did acid twice?
- that he only did acid once?
- that his favorite movie is Norbitt?
- that Dennis was an asshole?
- that his favorite Beach Boys album is The Beach Boys Love You?
- that his favorite Beach Boys album is Keepin' The Summer Alive?
- that his favorite Beach Boys album is Friends?
- that he wrote "Lay Down Burden" in memory of Carl?

For all we know, if you ask Brian today who should go on the monument, he might say "Mike, Danny Hutton, Gloria Ramos, and me." Tomorrow he might say "Me, Al, and Mike." Next Thursday he might say to put David on there twice. You can't deny that the man can't make up his mind. The only things consistent with Brian: his favorite song/record: "Be My Baby," his favorite album: A Christmas Gift To You From Phil Spector, and his favorite Beatles song: "Let It Be."

"Move along people.  Nothing to see here!" 

[joe_blow]

Now to take it up a notch, had Brian remained healthy in the late 70s, would Bruce ever have been invited back? Also, if Dennis and Carl were still with us, would Dave have been invited back to the reunion or would they still ignore his contributions?

[Sheriff John Stone]

It can't be BOTH AL and David.

Sure it can!  Why not?

If you want to choose Al, then you would hang your hat on Al and Brian talking about forming a group in high school, and, after graduation, actually seeing it through with the Hite Morgan sessions. That incarnation wasn't THE BEACH BOYS YET, so there is that technicality. But, if you still consider that unit to be the "founding" part of the argument, then Al is your man.

So Al (admittedly) leaves the band - which still ISN'T the Beach Boys (what are they, The Pendletons or Kenny & The Cadets or whatever) - and David joins. Al and David are not BOTH in the band at that point. They sign a contract with Capitol Records, Russ Regan names them The Beach Boys, so that's the LEGAL beginning of the group - and AL ain't there, David is.

So, hey, take your pick. But, in my opinion, it's one or the other.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Sorry, but the band Alan left in February 1962 most definitely WAS The Beach Boys. Record label said so.

You've got your early BB history arse about face. 

[Mike's Beard]

If you want to choose Al, then you would hang your hat on Al and Brian talking about forming a group in high school, and, after graduation, actually seeing it through with the Hite Morgan sessions. That incarnation wasn't THE BEACH BOYS YET, so there is that technicality. But, if you still consider that unit to be the "founding" part of the argument, then Al is your man.

So Al (admittedly) leaves the band - which still ISN'T the Beach Boys (what are they, The Pendletons or Kenny & The Cadets or whatever) - and David joins. Al and David are not BOTH in the band at that point. They sign a contract with Capitol Records, Russ Regan names them The Beach Boys, so that's the LEGAL beginning of the group - and AL ain't there, David is.

So, hey, take your pick. But, in my opinion, it's one or the other.

The 'Surfin' single had been out a couple of months by the time Al left, so the band he was leaving was actually called "The Beach Boys".

It's simple semantics, David cannot be an original or founding member if he REPLACED someone who LEFT. Yes he had always been lurking in the background, was no stranger to the Wilson's musically and was the natural choice to join when Al bolted. But unless someone can unearth definitive proof of all 6 guys playing together at the same time in 1961, under the assumption that they had offically formed a six man band and having settled on the name "The Pendletones" then the question is moot.

[Mikie]

It can't be BOTH AL and David.

Sure it can!  Why not?

So Al (admittedly) leaves the band - which still ISN'T the Beach Boys. Al and David are not BOTH in the band at that point. They sign a contract with Capitol Records, Russ Regan names them The Beach Boys, so that's the LEGAL beginning of the group - and AL ain't there, David is.

So, hey, take your pick. But, in my opinion, it's one or the other.

Ah, but see they WERE The Beach Boys when Al left. You forgot the Surfin'/Luau singles on Candix and 'X' and the record labels where they say "Beach Boys" on them. So they were called The Beach Boys before signing to Capitol and when BOTH David and Al were in the group at that point.

[drbeachboy]

It can't be BOTH AL and David.

Sure it can!  Why not?

So Al (admittedly) leaves the band - which still ISN'T the Beach Boys. Al and David are not BOTH in the band at that point. They sign a contract with Capitol Records, Russ Regan names them The Beach Boys, so that's the LEGAL beginning of the group - and AL ain't there, David is.

So, hey, take your pick. But, in my opinion, it's one or the other.

Ah, but see they WERE The Beach Boys when Al left. You forgot the Surfin'/Luau singles on Candix and 'X' and the record labels where they say "Beach Boys" on them. So they were called The Beach Boys before signing to Capitol and when BOTH David and Al were in the group at that point.

But does it count if the Beach Boys didn't know they were the Beach Boys until after the record came out? They were the Pendletones with a label mistake.

[Mikie]

I just want to know how long the Carl & The Passions group lasted.  Days?  Weeks?  A few months?

[leggo of my ego]

Dave was a foundling member of the BB.

He was only 3 years old. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

It can't be BOTH AL and David.

Sure it can!  Why not?

So Al (admittedly) leaves the band - which still ISN'T the Beach Boys. Al and David are not BOTH in the band at that point. They sign a contract with Capitol Records, Russ Regan names them The Beach Boys, so that's the LEGAL beginning of the group - and AL ain't there, David is.

So, hey, take your pick. But, in my opinion, it's one or the other.

Ah, but see they WERE The Beach Boys when Al left. You forgot the Surfin'/Luau singles on Candix and 'X' and the record labels where they say "Beach Boys" on them. So they were called The Beach Boys before signing to Capitol and when BOTH David and Al were in the group at that point.

I stand corrected! I am starting to forget things...

[Mr. Wilson]

So according to AGD"S timeline Al was in the group 1st.. He leaves in febuary 1962 comes back one year later. Meanwhile Carl + David are learning guitar together before + after 2/62. When Al left im sure they were workin on songs that ended up on 1st lp. Ill bet Brian wanted Al in group and Carl + Dennis wanted David.. When 1963 rolls around Al is in the fold but not officially..But the pics on lp"s dont follow timeline that well . pics on SS + SUSA were takin around the same time + also LDC lp has those photos also they appear to be 1962. meanwhile SG lp pics look newer.. I believe BW when he says there are 6 offical BB..And Murry was so hard to deal with that using Al as his live replacment might have been a ploy to get Al back in group + around Murry.. If there werent problems With David + his parents with Murry things would be alot different..

[Phoenix]

The way this reads is that Al was almost a secondary member when they started out. Dave rehearsed the first record but wasn't there for the recording of it. So actually he was in the band at that point. So was Al. Both Al and Dave were playing local gigs. Dave was on the first contract, Al wasn't. Al then bolted, Dave stayed in the band. Then Al came back and recorded on a few album tracks, but wasn't pictured on the album covers. Plus he went on the road to replace Brian. They switched back and forth the first couple of years, then Dave left the band and Al was there to stay until he became a full-fledged Beach Boy in what, 1973?

Yep.  Six founding members.