Was David Marks an Founding Member of the Beach Boys?

[pixletwin]

I don't know enough about the Stones. 

[Mikie]

Well, you guys have some good points about "founding member" and "original member". But.........this is what I have come up with as far as definitions. Note the similarities:

"Founding member". A founding member of a club, group, or organization is one of the first members. To establish or set up, especially with provision for continuing existence. To establish or formulate the foundation or basis of. To bring something into existence and set it in operation. To create, establish, institute, organize.
 
When you look up the definition of "Original member", it points to "Founding member".

Then there's "Charter member". An original member or a founding member of a group, club, society, or organization.
 

And let's not go there with the similarities between Pete Best and David Marks. Stebbins will come in here and turn it topsy-turvy.  

[pixletwin]

And let's not go there with the similarities between Pete Best and David Marks. Stebbins will come in here and turn it topsy-turvy.  

Agreed. The two are really not in anyway analogous.

[Mike's Beard]

The Beatles example gets very murky because through different line-ups they morphed from The Quarrymen to Johnny and the Moondogs to The Silver Beatles to The Beatles. I don't think Pete Best was even in the band when they dubbed themselves 'The Beatles'. So really The Beatles didn't so much form as 'evolved' from previous groups.

The Beach Boys line-up is much more clear cut because the 5 guys who formed as 'The Pendletones' were exactly the same 5 guys who changed/had their name changed to 'The Beach Boys'.

[drbeachboy]

All I care about is how the band recognize it, and they recognize both Al & Dave. It's their band and their call that should answer this question.

[Nicko1234]

So, the founding members of the Rolling Stones would be Jagger, Richards, Dick Taylor,  Allen Etherington and Bob Beckwith? Or Jagger, Jones, Taylor, Brian Jones, Ian Stewart, and Tony Chapman?

I think just the fact that you've asked that question indicates that the very term 'founding member' is overrated.

[Phoenix]

"Yes" from this camp too. As in my view was Al.

Exactly.  Because the founding of the band included a morphing line-up of six different members, I say those six were all founding members.  In fact, had Al not rejoined (for the road) so soon after leaving, I'd count Dave as the founding band member and Al as just a guy who played on the demo.  ALL six guys were VERY active from the time Brian started putting the idea together and the time of the band really broke through.

I guess all those people splitting hairs don't think Dennis is a founding member either because Audree made Brian include him "after" he had the idea of a band AND he didn't even play on the "Surfin'" demo.

[Mike's Beard]

"Yes" from this camp too. As in my view was Al.

I guess all those people splitting hairs don't think Dennis is a founding member either because Audree made Brian include him "after" he had the idea of a band AND he didn't even play on the "Surfin'" demo.

Except that Dennis was there at the first Hite Morgan session where he mentioned that they had a song called Surfin'.

[Alan Smith]

All I care about is how the band recognize it, and they recognize both Al & Dave. It's their band and their call that should answer this question.

+1

[pixletwin]

All I care about is how the band recognize it, and they recognize both Al & Dave. It's their band and their call that should answer this question.

Reference? If I can see/hear that, it would be good enough for me too.

[Jon Stebbins]

All I care about is how the band recognize it, and they recognize both Al & Dave. It's their band and their call that should answer this question.

Reference? If I can see/hear that, it would be good enough for me too.

Look at the Landmark in Hawthorne...it was the Wilsons...actually it was Brian's call who would be named on the monument. Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike, Al and Dave are the names on it. And in case anybody is forgetting, that was settled before my book on David came out.

[runnersdialzero]

Therein lies the descrepancy. Is being a "founding member" defined by when they became famous or when the group made the commitments to be together in group?

By your definition Dave Grohl is a founding member of Nirvana, where I would say he was not (Chad Channing would bear that distinction).

Chad was actually their fourth drummer, Dave their sixth. ^_^ Further evidence that the whole hardon for the "founding member" thing is of little significance and, as others said, the formation of the Beach Boys was a very loose thing when compared to other bands.

Some are talking like it either has to be Al or it has to be Dave. To me, they may as well both be considered founding members when you actually consider all aspects and set aside rigid definitions of who signed a contract or who played on a first single or whatever.

[pixletwin]

All I care about is how the band recognize it, and they recognize both Al & Dave. It's their band and their call that should answer this question.

Reference? If I can see/hear that, it would be good enough for me too.

Look at the Landmark in Hawthorne...it was the Wilsons...actually it was Brian's call who would be named on the monument. Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike, Al and Dave are the names on it. And in case anybody is forgetting, that was settled before my book on David came out.

True. Well that settles it for me. Signed. Sealed. Delivered.

Interesting topic though.

Per Nirvana, like the Beatles before them, they never had a real steady drummer until Chad. The others were pretty much just one night stands.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

All I care about is how the band recognize it, and they recognize both Al & Dave. It's their band and their call that should answer this question.

Reference? If I can see/hear that, it would be good enough for me too.

Look at the Landmark in Hawthorne...it was the Wilsons...actually it was Brian's call who would be named on the monument. Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike, Al and Dave are the names on it. And in case anybody is forgetting, that was settled before my book on David came out.

The monument should realistically settle the argument.... It hardly matters anyhow. I mean, isn't Malcolm Young the only founding member of AC/DC??? I don't even know if that's true. I think the older Young brothers actually started the band.

[drbeachboy]

All I care about is how the band recognize it, and they recognize both Al & Dave. It's their band and their call that should answer this question.

Reference? If I can see/hear that, it would be good enough for me too.

I see your question was answered with same one I would give you.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

All I care about is how the band recognize it, and they recognize both Al & Dave. It's their band and their call that should answer this question.

Reference? If I can see/hear that, it would be good enough for me too.

Look at the Landmark in Hawthorne...it was the Wilsons...actually it was Brian's call who would be named on the monument. Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike, Al and Dave are the names on it. And in case anybody is forgetting, that was settled before my book on David came out.

They should have put Bruce's name on the nearest manhole cover 

[bringahorseinhere?]

Let's Get Together And Call The Whole Thing Off 

Rb

[Jim V.]

The founding members of the Beach Boys are Brian, Carl, Dennis, Mike, and Al. Being a neighbor, friend, guitar buddy, doesn't make one a founding member. But David is about as close as a person can get without actually being one. 

So, if you were to do this for the Beatles, then Ringo is just a replacement member?

I am glad you brought that up.

If you asked any person living in liverpool in 1962 they would say yes, Ringo is a replacement member... and I would agree. Yes. Ringo Starr is not a founding member of the Beatles. Not even close.

Having said that, Pete Best was not a founding member either. John Lennon is technically the only founding member of the Beatles. Though since they wouldn't take that name for 3 years after he started the group I suppose a case could be made that Paul and George are also founding members of The Beatles.

John, Paul, George and Ringo are the only Beatles most of the world knew when they broke big. To me, it is all in perspective as to when they became known to the masses.

So Peter Green and Jeremy Spencer aren't original Fleetwood Mac members? And everybody who came before Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks (including the great Danny Kirwan and Bob Welch) doesn't matter as well?

That one don't work for me.

[bluesno1fann]

The founding members of the Beach Boys are Brian, Carl, Dennis, Mike, and Al. Being a neighbor, friend, guitar buddy, doesn't make one a founding member. But David is about as close as a person can get without actually being one. 

So, if you were to do this for the Beatles, then Ringo is just a replacement member?

I am glad you brought that up.

If you asked any person living in liverpool in 1962 they would say yes, Ringo is a replacement member... and I would agree. Yes. Ringo Starr is not a founding member of the Beatles. Not even close.

Having said that, Pete Best was not a founding member either. John Lennon is technically the only founding member of the Beatles. Though since they wouldn't take that name for 3 years after he started the group I suppose a case could be made that Paul and George are also founding members of The Beatles.

John, Paul, George and Ringo are the only Beatles most of the world knew when they broke big. To me, it is all in perspective as to when they became known to the masses.

So Peter Green and Jeremy Spencer aren't original Fleetwood Mac members? And everybody who came before Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks (including the great Danny Kirwan and Bob Welch) doesn't matter as well?

That one don't work for me.

True. Lol in my opinion the best Fleetwood Mac line-up would be the one with Peter Green and Jeremy Spencer! IMHO Their late-70's and 80's era is criminally overrated

[bluesno1fann]

The founding members of the Beach Boys are Brian, Carl, Dennis, Mike, and Al. Being a neighbor, friend, guitar buddy, doesn't make one a founding member. But David is about as close as a person can get without actually being one.  

So, if you were to do this for the Beatles, then Ringo is just a replacement member?

I am glad you brought that up.

If you asked any person living in liverpool in 1962 they would say yes, Ringo is a replacement member... and I would agree. Yes. Ringo Starr is not a founding member of the Beatles. Not even close.

Having said that, Pete Best was not a founding member either. John Lennon is technically the only founding member of the Beatles. Though since they wouldn't take that name for 3 more years after he started the group I suppose a case could be made that Paul and George are also founding members of The Beatles.

So, the founding members of the Rolling Stones would be Jagger, Richards, Dick Taylor,  Allen Etherington and Bob Beckwith? Or Jagger, Jones, Taylor, Brian Jones, Ian Stewart, and Tony Chapman?

With the Stones, the founding members are Brian Jones, Ian Stewart, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards. Dick Taylor and Tony Chapman were fill-ins, like the Beatles drummers before Pete and Ringo. Bill Wyman joined in December 1962, and Charlie Watts joined in January 1963, so neither of them are founding members.

[Surfer]

David Marks lived across the street from the Wilson's Home and i say that he was in the Original Band of the Beach Boys!   He was over at their house like every day playing Guitar with Carl Wilson.

[Lonely Summer]

I guarantee you NO ONE here knows who the founding members of Paul Revere and the Raiders are, other than Paul himself...and maybe, if I stretch it, Mark Lindsay.

[bluesno1fann]

Also, was David Marks ever part of the Pendletones?

[Alan Smith]

The monument should realistically settle the argument.... It hardly matters anyhow. I mean, isn't Malcolm Young the only founding member of AC/DC??? I don't even know if that's true. I think the older Young brothers actually started the band.

(Malcolm and Angus Young founded AC/DC, then were taken under the production auspices of big bro George and his mate Harry Vanda, previously the brains behind The EasyBeats (Friday on my mind). Vanda & Young were subsequently responsible for a big chunk of commercially sucessful 70s/80s Oz hard pub rock and John Paul Young (Love is in the Air)).

[Andrew G. Doe]

There's the original/founding line up, and then there's the classic line up. The former is a question of definition, the latter the result of common acclaim. If you're being entirely picky - and that's so unlike me - David, while being undeniably part of the genesis of the band, wasn't on the first release or shows. However, rock & roll isn't so black and white: to me, David is an original.