Some early facts and gifts from Smile Sessions

[Micha]

Looks like Hal on the left

LLVS p.222 claims the guy on the left to be Bill Pitman and dates that pic to Jan 25 1967. Were Pitman and Estes at the Jan 25 session?
However, it says that picture was taken at Western, while it is clearly the same studio as in the picture next to it where it says "Gold Star". So the claim Jan 25 1967 seems very unlikely for that photo.

But if it is true that the guy on the left is not Hal Blaine but rather Bill Pitman, it could also be the Friday Night session which does feature a vibraphone.

On the same page there's a photo with a bearded Brian that is claimed to be May 18. Did Brian wear a beard in May 1967? If so, it couldn't be the Dada sessions.

Really hard to find the truth, ain't it?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Looks like Hal on the left

LLVS p.222 claims the guy on the left to be Bill Pitman and dates that pic to Jan 25 1967. Were Pitman and Estes at the Jan 25 session?
However, it says that picture was taken at Western, while it is clearly the same studio as in the picture next to it where it says "Gold Star". So the claim Jan 25 1967 seems very unlikely for that photo.

Exactly. That's Gold Star, not Western, ergo the 1/25/67 dating (which was a Jasper Dailey session, btw) is wrong.

[Micha]

But what about the guy being Bill Pitman instead of Hal Blaine? I found no pictures of Bill Pitman, but I think it may not be Hal Blaine after all.

Here's some 1967 pictures with a bearded Brian which I hadn't seen yet (in the car and on the sofa). Brian did wear a beard in July 1967, as it seems:

http://www.gadflyonline.com/05-06-02/ftr-epiphany.html

[desmondo]

Good point - anyone else have any more info on this Dec 19 session which happens to be my birthday??

Wow, it's my birthday too. Hardly worth a reply just for that but there you go.

1959 - you???

[The Heartical Don]

Um... I was just pondering this: we're getting two new mixes songs that offer, apart from their sound, nothing we don't already know. Then: it is a mere 3 weeks until that MOJO will appear.

Wouldn't that box set have been advertised by now, if it were to follow in that single's footsteps? Or is it possible that the staff decided to highlight the Beach Boys and SMiLE, because the Sessions are a real event (so putting The Group on the cover sells extra issues)?

My question: is there a clue anywhere that the box will appear earlier than October? Or is it our collective pipedream?

[desmondo]

Um... I was just pondering this: we're getting two new mixes songs that offer, apart from their sound, nothing we don't already know. Then: it is a mere 3 weeks until that MOJO will appear.

Wouldn't that box set have been advertised by now, if it were to follow in that single's footsteps? Or is it possible that the staff decided to highlight the Beach Boys and SMiLE, because the Sessions are a real event (so putting The Group on the cover sells extra issues)?

My question: is there a clue anywhere that the box will appear earlier than October? Or is it our collective pipedream?

Aren't August and September the two dates in the frame at the mo - or did I miss something

[Andrew G. Doe]

My question: is there a clue anywhere that the box will appear earlier than October? Or is it our collective pipedream?

There are always clues. The trick is knowing where to look, and recognising them when you find one.  

Um... I was just pondering this: we're getting two new mixes songs that offer, apart from their sound, nothing we don't already know.

We are ?  Care to share with us how you've divined this from nothing more than a photo of the single and a few lines of text ? My distinct impression is that we're getting the 1969 version of "Cabinessence" and the 1993 box version of "Wonderful", granted based on the same info as you have to hand.

[desmondo]

My question: is there a clue anywhere that the box will appear earlier than October? Or is it our collective pipedream?

There are always clues. The trick is knowing where to look, and recognising them when you find one.  

Um... I was just pondering this: we're getting two new mixes songs that offer, apart from their sound, nothing we don't already know.

We are ?  Care to share with us how you've divined this from nothing more than a photo of the single and a few lines of text ? My distinct impression is that we're getting the 1969 version of "Cabinessence" and the 1993 box version of "Wonderful", granted based on the same info as you have to hand.

Yes most likely - but a. we won't know until we've heard them and b. where in the box set they actually fit (the album or the sessions)

[Barnshine]

My question: is there a clue anywhere that the box will appear earlier than October? Or is it our collective pipedream?

There are always clues. The trick is knowing where to look, and recognising them when you find one.  

Um... I was just pondering this: we're getting two new mixes songs that offer, apart from their sound, nothing we don't already know.

We are ?  Care to share with us how you've divined this from nothing more than a photo of the single and a few lines of text ? My distinct impression is that we're getting the 1969 version of "Cabinessence" and the 1993 box version of "Wonderful", granted based on the same info as you have to hand.

The single's label says "Mix produced by Alan Boyd and Mark Linnett", but that of course could mean nothing.

[The Heartical Don]

My question: is there a clue anywhere that the box will appear earlier than October? Or is it our collective pipedream?

There are always clues. The trick is knowing where to look, and recognising them when you find one.  

Um... I was just pondering this: we're getting two new mixes songs that offer, apart from their sound, nothing we don't already know.

We are ?  Care to share with us how you've divined this from nothing more than a photo of the single and a few lines of text ? My distinct impression is that we're getting the 1969 version of "Cabinessence" and the 1993 box version of "Wonderful", granted based on the same info as you have to hand.

The single's label says "Mix produced by Alan Boyd and Mark Linnett", but that of course could mean nothing.

Well, this is what I was going by.

[ash]

Van Dyke's on piano, iirc. And yeah, that can't be the full list. Although AFM sheets are rife with discrepancies, so that could explain the lack of a horn or harmonica player. Or bass. And I think I hear Pohlman in there with his deeeeeeep voice,. He also calls out to a Gene, playing the slide whistle and things, not on that list.


Also, the most infuriating thing about the session is that right at the start he says there are going to be vocals on it! 

IIRC doesn't Brian say something like "a little slower for vocal reasons please". Though this could imply vocals were intended it could mean it was to be joined to a slower vocal section. I once edited the  verse  "I've been in this town so long so long to the city" etc. cut this piece so prelude to fade starts on villains (by the heroes and ...prelude to fade) and then added the false barnyard after prelude. works quite well in my opinion.
My big wish for this release is the long feb/march heroes (poss from acetate ?) and an earlier heroes/great shape/barnyard. I don't hold out much hope for anything else new or significant unless Bruce/Alans/Durrie's acetates reveal something .
Anyone know if Brian has a collection of demos and acetates or have these been lost over the years ?

[Andrew G. Doe]

My question: is there a clue anywhere that the box will appear earlier than October? Or is it our collective pipedream?

There are always clues. The trick is knowing where to look, and recognising them when you find one.  

Um... I was just pondering this: we're getting two new mixes songs that offer, apart from their sound, nothing we don't already know.

We are ?  Care to share with us how you've divined this from nothing more than a photo of the single and a few lines of text ? My distinct impression is that we're getting the 1969 version of "Cabinessence" and the 1993 box version of "Wonderful", granted based on the same info as you have to hand.

The single's label says "Mix produced by Alan Boyd and Mark Linnett", but that of course could mean nothing.

This is the info from the ad:

Brother Records

The Beach Boys

Side A - this side
Cabin Essence - 3.30
Brian Wilson / Van Dyke Parks
Irving Music (BMI) / Safe & Sane Music (ASCAP)

Side B - other side
Wonderful - 2.03
Irving Music (BMI)

Produced and Arranged by Brian Wilson
Lyrics by Van Dyke Parks

From the forthcoming Capitol release "The Smile Sessions"
Executive Producer Dennis Wolfe
Mixed and Mastered by Mark Linett at Your Place Or Mine Recording
Mix Produced by Alan Boyd and Mark Linett

The 'mixed & mastered' part obviously refers to the whole project, and of course all the previous releases will be remastered.

[c-man]

He also calls out to a Gene, playing the slide whistle and things, not on that list.

That would most likely be Gene Estes, on percussion, and he'd have a "bag of tricks" like bells and whistles on a session just like Hal Blaine demonstrated his slide whistles and other noisemakers which he used on Pet Sounds and Smile. Very cool stuff. Here's a photo of Brian with Gene (smoking a cig in the middle) playing mallets at Gold Star near the end of the Smile sessions, and I lightened the photo but still can't identify the man sitting in the chair to the far right of the shot.

Well, given it's Gold Star and the clock says 4.20pm and Gene Estes is there, the session could be:

11/28/66 (Fire); Lyle Ritz, Diane Rovell, Arnold Belnick, Norman Botnick, Joseph DiTollio, Jesse Erlich, Gene Estes, James Gordon, William Green, James Horn, Plas Johnson, Carol Kaye, Lawrence Levine, Leonard Marsky, Jay Migliori, Alexander Neiman, William Pitman
11/29/66 (Great Shape/Friday Night): William Pitman, Diane Rovell, Gene Estes, James Gordon, Carol Kaye, Lawrence Levine, Lyle Ritz
5/16/67 (Love To Say Da Da): Hal Blaine, Dianne Rovell, Gene P. Estes (bells, Perc. Piano), James M. Hilton, William Pitman, Lyle Ritz, Michel Rubini
5/18/67 (Da Da): M.R. Pohlman, Dianne Rovell, Frank A. DeVita, Gene P. Estes, William E. Green (piccolo and whistle), James M. Hilton, Jay Migliori (Piccolo and Whistle), William Pitman, Bass and Gut String Gtm.), Melvin Pollan, Michel Rubini (maybe - no time given)

Looks like Hal on the left, so if it is,  that cuts out the 5/18/67 and 11/29/66 dates and "Fire" too. Looks like May 16th 1967.

This is from 11/29/66 (Great Shape/Friday night).  Dude on the far left is Bill Pitman.  Dude on the far right MIGHT be Jim Gordon.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Excellent. Many thanks.

[guitarfool2002]

He also calls out to a Gene, playing the slide whistle and things, not on that list.

That would most likely be Gene Estes, on percussion, and he'd have a "bag of tricks" like bells and whistles on a session just like Hal Blaine demonstrated his slide whistles and other noisemakers which he used on Pet Sounds and Smile. Very cool stuff. Here's a photo of Brian with Gene (smoking a cig in the middle) playing mallets at Gold Star near the end of the Smile sessions, and I lightened the photo but still can't identify the man sitting in the chair to the far right of the shot.

Well, given it's Gold Star and the clock says 4.20pm and Gene Estes is there, the session could be:

11/28/66 (Fire); Lyle Ritz, Diane Rovell, Arnold Belnick, Norman Botnick, Joseph DiTollio, Jesse Erlich, Gene Estes, James Gordon, William Green, James Horn, Plas Johnson, Carol Kaye, Lawrence Levine, Leonard Marsky, Jay Migliori, Alexander Neiman, William Pitman
11/29/66 (Great Shape/Friday Night): William Pitman, Diane Rovell, Gene Estes, James Gordon, Carol Kaye, Lawrence Levine, Lyle Ritz
5/16/67 (Love To Say Da Da): Hal Blaine, Dianne Rovell, Gene P. Estes (bells, Perc. Piano), James M. Hilton, William Pitman, Lyle Ritz, Michel Rubini
5/18/67 (Da Da): M.R. Pohlman, Dianne Rovell, Frank A. DeVita, Gene P. Estes, William E. Green (piccolo and whistle), James M. Hilton, Jay Migliori (Piccolo and Whistle), William Pitman, Bass and Gut String Gtm.), Melvin Pollan, Michel Rubini (maybe - no time given)

Looks like Hal on the left, so if it is,  that cuts out the 5/18/67 and 11/29/66 dates and "Fire" too. Looks like May 16th 1967.

This is from 11/29/66 (Great Shape/Friday night).  Dude on the far left is Bill Pitman.  Dude on the far right MIGHT be Jim Gordon.

I'm almost sure that's not Jim Gordon - this is what he looked like at Gold Star in the winter of 66 the same year as the photo we're discussing:


That guy in the chair might be a studio employee, a music copyist, or anyone we haven't heard of because the musicians listed on that date would be easy to pick out and it's none of them.

Good call on Bill Pitman: It's funny but his side profile looks like Hal Blaine, and the guy in the photo is playing mallets while Pitman was a guitarist, bassist, and tic-tac bassist for most of the sessions. I saw a similar photo if not the same one posted elsewhere with the date May 67, so when AGD targeted that date I thought it sounded right. The fact it's not Hal but looks like Hal changed the game and we have the 11/29 date.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Steve Korthof, maybe ? (Not Parks, or Grillo...)

[guitarfool2002]

Steve Korthof, maybe ? (Not Parks, or Grillo...)

   Possibly!

Are there any period photos of him or even Arnie Geller we could check out? The guy looks a bit like Robbie Robertson to me.

[Micha]

This is from 11/29/66 (Great Shape/Friday night).  Dude on the far left is Bill Pitman.  Dude on the far right MIGHT be Jim Gordon.

Great, thanks! Looks like I guessed well!  

This also gives a good chance that the photos with the bearded Brian are indeed the Dada sessions then.

[guitarfool2002]

This is a Gold Star photo of the bearded Brian - I lightened it up to better see Lyle Ritz with the bow in the background. If Lyle is there, based on AGD's list posted earlier, this might be (or is) the May 16th 1967 session at Gold Star (apologies in advance if this same photo appears with a date elsewhere!):

[Andrew G. Doe]

LLVS ! page 228 says May 18th... but of course the presence of Lyle in the photo means that's wrong. 

[c-man]

He also calls out to a Gene, playing the slide whistle and things, not on that list.

That would most likely be Gene Estes, on percussion, and he'd have a "bag of tricks" like bells and whistles on a session just like Hal Blaine demonstrated his slide whistles and other noisemakers which he used on Pet Sounds and Smile. Very cool stuff. Here's a photo of Brian with Gene (smoking a cig in the middle) playing mallets at Gold Star near the end of the Smile sessions, and I lightened the photo but still can't identify the man sitting in the chair to the far right of the shot.

Well, given it's Gold Star and the clock says 4.20pm and Gene Estes is there, the session could be:

11/28/66 (Fire); Lyle Ritz, Diane Rovell, Arnold Belnick, Norman Botnick, Joseph DiTollio, Jesse Erlich, Gene Estes, James Gordon, William Green, James Horn, Plas Johnson, Carol Kaye, Lawrence Levine, Leonard Marsky, Jay Migliori, Alexander Neiman, William Pitman
11/29/66 (Great Shape/Friday Night): William Pitman, Diane Rovell, Gene Estes, James Gordon, Carol Kaye, Lawrence Levine, Lyle Ritz
5/16/67 (Love To Say Da Da): Hal Blaine, Dianne Rovell, Gene P. Estes (bells, Perc. Piano), James M. Hilton, William Pitman, Lyle Ritz, Michel Rubini
5/18/67 (Da Da): M.R. Pohlman, Dianne Rovell, Frank A. DeVita, Gene P. Estes, William E. Green (piccolo and whistle), James M. Hilton, Jay Migliori (Piccolo and Whistle), William Pitman, Bass and Gut String Gtm.), Melvin Pollan, Michel Rubini (maybe - no time given)

Looks like Hal on the left, so if it is,  that cuts out the 5/18/67 and 11/29/66 dates and "Fire" too. Looks like May 16th 1967.

This is from 11/29/66 (Great Shape/Friday night).  Dude on the far left is Bill Pitman.  Dude on the far right MIGHT be Jim Gordon.

I'm almost sure that's not Jim Gordon - this is what he looked like at Gold Star in the winter of 66 the same year as the photo we're discussing:


That guy in the chair might be a studio employee, a music copyist, or anyone we haven't heard of because the musicians listed on that date would be easy to pick out and it's none of them.

Good call on Bill Pitman: It's funny but his side profile looks like Hal Blaine, and the guy in the photo is playing mallets while Pitman was a guitarist, bassist, and tic-tac bassist for most of the sessions. I saw a similar photo if not the same one posted elsewhere with the date May 67, so when AGD targeted that date I thought it sounded right. The fact it's not Hal but looks like Hal changed the game and we have the 11/29 date.

Actually, I think the guy I said MIGHT be Jim Gordon looks an awful lot like the photo of Gordon playing vibes...the hair looks a lot darker & fuller in the SMiLE photo, but the face has the same angular slant, and the mouth is virtually identical.  At any rate, there is a SMiLE-era photo of Steve Korthof in the Gaines book...I'd say definitely not him.  Korthof looks more like Carl.  Oh, and FYI:  Pitman is definitely playing vibes in conjunctin with Estes on "Friday Night".

[BiG GRiN]

He also calls out to a Gene, playing the slide whistle and things, not on that list.

That would most likely be Gene Estes, on percussion, and he'd have a "bag of tricks" like bells and whistles on a session just like Hal Blaine demonstrated his slide whistles and other noisemakers which he used on Pet Sounds and Smile. Very cool stuff. Here's a photo of Brian with Gene (smoking a cig in the middle) playing mallets at Gold Star near the end of the Smile sessions, and I lightened the photo but still can't identify the man sitting in the chair to the far right of the shot.

Well, given it's Gold Star and the clock says 4.20pm and Gene Estes is there, the session could be:

11/28/66 (Fire); Lyle Ritz, Diane Rovell, Arnold Belnick, Norman Botnick, Joseph DiTollio, Jesse Erlich, Gene Estes, James Gordon, William Green, James Horn, Plas Johnson, Carol Kaye, Lawrence Levine, Leonard Marsky, Jay Migliori, Alexander Neiman, William Pitman
11/29/66 (Great Shape/Friday Night): William Pitman, Diane Rovell, Gene Estes, James Gordon, Carol Kaye, Lawrence Levine, Lyle Ritz
5/16/67 (Love To Say Da Da): Hal Blaine, Dianne Rovell, Gene P. Estes (bells, Perc. Piano), James M. Hilton, William Pitman, Lyle Ritz, Michel Rubini
5/18/67 (Da Da): M.R. Pohlman, Dianne Rovell, Frank A. DeVita, Gene P. Estes, William E. Green (piccolo and whistle), James M. Hilton, Jay Migliori (Piccolo and Whistle), William Pitman, Bass and Gut String Gtm.), Melvin Pollan, Michel Rubini (maybe - no time given)

Looks like Hal on the left, so if it is,  that cuts out the 5/18/67 and 11/29/66 dates and "Fire" too. Looks like May 16th 1967.

This is from 11/29/66 (Great Shape/Friday night).  Dude on the far left is Bill Pitman.  Dude on the far right MIGHT be Jim Gordon.

I'm almost sure that's not Jim Gordon - this is what he looked like at Gold Star in the winter of 66 the same year as the photo we're discussing:


That guy in the chair might be a studio employee, a music copyist, or anyone we haven't heard of because the musicians listed on that date would be easy to pick out and it's none of them.

Good call on Bill Pitman: It's funny but his side profile looks like Hal Blaine, and the guy in the photo is playing mallets while Pitman was a guitarist, bassist, and tic-tac bassist for most of the sessions. I saw a similar photo if not the same one posted elsewhere with the date May 67, so when AGD targeted that date I thought it sounded right. The fact it's not Hal but looks like Hal changed the game and we have the 11/29 date.

Actually, I think the guy I said MIGHT be Jim Gordon looks an awful lot like the photo of Gordon playing vibes...the hair looks a lot darker & fuller in the SMiLE photo, but the face has the same angular slant, and the mouth is virtually identical.  At any rate, there is a SMiLE-era photo of Steve Korthof in the Gaines book...I'd say definitely not him.  Korthof looks more like Carl.  Oh, and FYI:  Pitman is definitely playing vibes in conjunctin with Estes on "Friday Night".

According to my 'Bible' revised edition, this is a "Surf's Up" session, Western Studios 1/25/67, with from Left to right, Bill Pitman, Gene Estes, Brian Wilson. And no name for the guy in the chair.
Is this right? or mistakes?

[c-man]

Mistake.  Gene Estes was not employed for the 1/25 "Surf's Up" session, and Estes & Pittman DEFINITELY duetted on vibes for "Friday Night".  Plus, the 1/25 session was at Western, and the photo is from Gold Star.

[BiG GRiN]

Mistake.  Gene Estes was not employed for the 1/25 "Surf's Up" session, and Estes & Pittman DEFINITELY duetted on vibes for "Friday Night".  Plus, the 1/25 session was at Western, and the photo is from Gold Star.

Perfect, thanks.

[guitarfool2002]

Watch the dates given under the studio photos in LLVS: Two errors have already been pointed out from photos in this thread.

As far as studios in those photos, if you see wood paneling on the walls and colored tiles, chances are it was Western #3. Robin's egg blue paint and off-white tiles was Gold Star. And the control rooms had a certain look as well: it's easy to pick them out in comparison. I saw that famous shot of Brian and Hal Blaine at the piano, with Brian wearing the same white sweater and hair style as these Gold Star 11/29 photos: I thought to myself "what's Hal doing there?" but the wall behind them was the wood paneling, obviously Western. Answered my own question!

Here are three more from what I would guess was the same 11/29/66 session at Gold Star, judging from Brian's appearance: