Some early facts and gifts from Smile Sessions

[desmondo]

"As for my own music, 'Smile' is my most ambitious album in terms of sequences and segues."

http://www.nme.com/news/the-beach-boys/56941

Pretty uninteresting article, but thought the above quote was worth posting as Brian is obviously in 'promote smile sessions' mode.

Nope - he's obviously talking about BWPS. Has to be, given that Smile, being unfinished, never had any sequences or segues to be proud of.  

Err nope Smile 66 you mean

You mean SMiLE 66 `Andrew surely

Nope - to my mind, Brian's clearly talking about BWPS, which has sequences - three of 'em - and segues (many). Smile, some 44 years ago, had neither sequences nor segues. It's all in the context:

"He said of Pet Sounds: "It's a good album, but not the best. I think The Beatles' Rubber Soul is still the best album of all time. As for my own music, Smile is my most ambitious album in terms of sequences and seques."

So, he compares Pet Sounds to Rubber Soul and finds it wanting (man's a fool, of course), then says "as for my own music", i.e. his solo material. The distinction is clear.

The defense rests.  

Nope - to my mind he's obviously talking about SMiLE as a piece that's finished - as we don't know what SMiLE would have been in 66/67 its difficult to say no sequences and no segues back then

SMiLE, as a work of art conceived, written and performed by BW, VDP and all the players, is finished and completed. It was done so in 2004.

Exactly. And released as BWPS. Nice of you to agree with me. Eventually. 

  Don't think I do TBH - you are saying BWPS is not the finished SMiLE - right??

[Andrew G. Doe]

Smile 1966/7 - unfinished, unreleased, no sequence, no segues.

Brian Wilson presents Smile 2004 - finished, released, sequences & segues galore.

BWPS is a Smile, but not the Smile. As I've been saying since February 20th, 2004.

[desmondo]

Smile 1966/7 - unfinished, unreleased, no sequence, no segues.

Brian Wilson presents Smile 2004 - finished, released, sequences & segues galore.

BWPS is a Smile, but not the Smile. As I've been saying since February 20th, 2004.

Ahh - wasn't around in September 2004 but what is THE Smile if not BWPS?

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Smile 1966/7 - unfinished, unreleased, no sequence, no segues.

Brian Wilson presents Smile 2004 - finished, released, sequences & segues galore.

BWPS is a Smile, but not the Smile. As I've been saying since February 20th, 2004.

Ahh - wasn't around in September 2004 but what is THE Smile if not BWPS?

The ORIGINAL 1966 one that was NEVER completed.

[desmondo]

Smile 1966/7 - unfinished, unreleased, no sequence, no segues.

Brian Wilson presents Smile 2004 - finished, released, sequences & segues galore.

BWPS is a Smile, but not the Smile. As I've been saying since February 20th, 2004.

Ahh - wasn't around in September 2004 but what is THE Smile if not BWPS?

The ORIGINAL 1966 one that was NEVER completed.

But it was completed in 2004

[Jason]

Smile 1966/7 - unfinished, unreleased, no sequence, no segues.

Brian Wilson presents Smile 2004 - finished, released, sequences & segues galore.

BWPS is a Smile, but not the Smile. As I've been saying since February 20th, 2004.

Ahh - wasn't around in September 2004 but what is THE Smile if not BWPS?

The ORIGINAL 1966 one that was NEVER completed.

But it was completed in 2004

The Brian Wilson Travelling Propganda and Deception Machine claims another victim...

[buddhahat]

Smile 1966/7 - unfinished, unreleased, no sequence, no segues.

Brian Wilson presents Smile 2004 - finished, released, sequences & segues galore.

BWPS is a Smile, but not the Smile. As I've been saying since February 20th, 2004.

You are dividing Smile here, in a perfectly sensible way, but I think it's a leap for you to presume Brian separates the original Smile sessions and the work he did in 2004 in exactly the same way you do. I'd wager when he's talking about Smile in that article he's taking about all the work he did on it, both in the 60s and 2003, the latter the logical conclusion to the former. I just don't think he over complicates it in the same way we do.

[Jason]

Smile 1966/7 - unfinished, unreleased, no sequence, no segues.

Brian Wilson presents Smile 2004 - finished, released, sequences & segues galore.

BWPS is a Smile, but not the Smile. As I've been saying since February 20th, 2004.

You are dividing Smile here, in a perfectly sensible way, but I think it's a leap for you to presume Brian separates the original Smile sessions and the work he did in 2004 in exactly the same way you do. I'd wager when he's talking about Smile in that article he's taking about all the work he did on it, both in the 60s and 2003, the latter the logical conclusion to the former. I just don't think he over complicates it in the same way we do.

All the work HE (Brian Wilson) did on it in 2003? You must be referring to a certain politician or San Francisco Giants pitcher...

[desmondo]

Smile 1966/7 - unfinished, unreleased, no sequence, no segues.

Brian Wilson presents Smile 2004 - finished, released, sequences & segues galore.

BWPS is a Smile, but not the Smile. As I've been saying since February 20th, 2004.

You are dividing Smile here, in a perfectly sensible way, but I think it's a leap for you to presume Brian separates the original Smile sessions and the work he did in 2004 in exactly the same way you do. I'd wager when he's talking about Smile in that article he's taking about all the work he did on it, both in the 60s and 2003, the latter the logical conclusion to the former. I just don't think he over complicates it in the same way we do.

Yep - SMiLE is just one thing - and one thing only

[desmondo]

Smile 1966/7 - unfinished, unreleased, no sequence, no segues.

Brian Wilson presents Smile 2004 - finished, released, sequences & segues galore.

BWPS is a Smile, but not the Smile. As I've been saying since February 20th, 2004.

Ahh - wasn't around in September 2004 but what is THE Smile if not BWPS?

The ORIGINAL 1966 one that was NEVER completed.

But it was completed in 2004

The Brian Wilson Travelling Propganda and Deception Machine claims another victim...

So what was completed in 2004?? - a whole bunch of new songs like H&V, CE, SU, MOC, W, etc etc written and recorded in the 21st century???

Of course that's what happened - I forgot.......duh silly me

[Jason]

"Completion" of the Smile project means the completion of the ORIGINAL 1966-67 recordings. BWPS is not that completion. Never has been and never will be.

[sockittome]

I can't believe we're still at war over this, 7 years later!  Who's on first, what's on second, and I don't know is on third!!!!!! 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Smile 1966/7 - unfinished, unreleased, no sequence, no segues.

Brian Wilson presents Smile 2004 - finished, released, sequences & segues galore.

BWPS is a Smile, but not the Smile. As I've been saying since February 20th, 2004.

Ahh - wasn't around in September 2004 but what is THE Smile if not BWPS?

The ORIGINAL 1966 one that was NEVER completed.

But it was completed in 2004

The Brian Wilson Travelling Propganda and Deception Machine claims another victim...

So what was completed in 2004?? - a whole bunch of new songs like H&V, CE, SU, MOC, W, etc etc written and recorded in the 21st century???

Of course that's what happened - I forgot.......duh silly me

Nothing was completed in 2003/4. What happened was, a bunch of songs written and (in some cases partly) recorded back in 1966/67 were assembled into a sequence that would work live (source: some dude called Sahanaja), which required the addition of some newly written lyrics and links, and a newly-designed third movement (source: some cat named Wilson). BWPS was conceived, executed and recorded as a live work. The material was largely - but not exclusively - 37 years old. The execution was entirely 21st century. Also, consider this: if it was truly Smile completed... why not call it that ?

A far more accurate title would have been Brian Wilson Reimagines Smile.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

A few things that might be worth adding...

If I can interpret Andrew's point differently from A Million Units, I don't think The Smile is the unfinished 1966/67 album. I think, because of the nature of the history of this album, there can never be an official Smile.

And, to be honest, I think it's pretty difficult to say that the offical Smile is BWPS. Even Wilson himself acknowledges that the album is not Smile in the very title of the album! There is a reason why the album isn't just called "Smile". Remember that Smile was a Beach Boys album and part of what Smile was was those recordings - none of which were used on BWPS. However great BWPS was (and, indeed, it was and still is great), it is simply a whole other thing. Again, there is a reason why Brian called the follow up to Pet Sounds "Smiley Smile" and not Smile. And there is a reason why he called his 2004 album Brian Wilson Presents Smile and not simply Smile. "Smile" was, quite simply, something that can never be, however tragic that may seem.

But on this line, I think it makes as much logical sense to say that "Smiley Smile" is the official Smile as it does to say that Brian Wilson Presents Smile is the official Smile.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Looks like I spoke too soon...

[Peter Reum]

I happen to agree with the point above that Smiley Smile is as legitimate a conclusion to Smile as Brian`s 2004 Smile. Music is there for it`s composers to work with, massage. and reinvigorate. An example is Gershwin`s Porgy and Bess, which was later reinterpreted by that composer into a performance piece for orchestra. It is little known and rarely performed compared with the opera, but it is part of the Gershwin oeurve. He did the same with I Got Rhythm, which he redid into a performance piece entitled Variations on I Got Rhythm. I hope Brian keeps reinterpreting his work. He did it with Help Me Rhonda, Let Him Run Wild, and My Solution. Go Brian!

[A Million Units In Jan!]

But on this line, I think it makes as much logical sense to say that "Smiley Smile" is the official Smile as it does to say that Brian Wilson Presents Smile is the official Smile.

I agree with this. It wasn't like Brian just decided to throw an album together for the hell of it-Smiley is where he decided it was at after getting burned out on SMiLE. In another thread, we've been talking about the night Brian delivered H&V to the radio station-he was pretty sure that the album was gonna blow people away. He thought that people would dig SS. Why or how he got to this conclusion is always up for debate.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I happen to agree with the point above that Smiley Smile is as legitimate a conclusion to Smile as Brian`s 2004 Smile. Music is there for it`s composers to work with, massage. and reinvigorate. An example is Gershwin`s Porgy and Bess, which was later reinterpreted by that composer into a performance piece for orchestra. It is little known and rarely performed compared with the opera, but it is part of the Gershwin oeurve. He did the same with I Got Rhythm, which he redid into a performance piece entitled Variations on I Got Rhythm. I hope Brian keeps reinterpreting his work. He did it with Help Me Rhonda, Let Him Run Wild, and My Solution. Go Brian!

Possibly the most extreme example of this is Jim Steinman. As any serious fans of his will know, just about everything he's ever written to date derives from material he composed in the early/mid-seventies for Neverland, his unrealised sci-fi version of Peter Pan.

[c-man]

I happen to agree with the point above that Smiley Smile is as legitimate a conclusion to Smile as Brian`s 2004 Smile. Music is there for it`s composers to work with, massage. and reinvigorate. An example is Gershwin`s Porgy and Bess, which was later reinterpreted by that composer into a performance piece for orchestra. It is little known and rarely performed compared with the opera, but it is part of the Gershwin oeurve. He did the same with I Got Rhythm, which he redid into a performance piece entitled Variations on I Got Rhythm. I hope Brian keeps reinterpreting his work. He did it with Help Me Rhonda, Let Him Run Wild, and My Solution. Go Brian!

And All Dressed Up For School, and Sherri She Needs Me, and Shortenin' Bread, and....

[Pretty Funky]

I think it makes as much logical sense to say that "Smiley Smile" is the official Smile as it does to say that Brian Wilson Presents Smile is the official Smile.

It took several readings but I think I've got it!

[cutterschoice]

Ok, so we're all agreed that the 2004 SMiLE is the official one?

I've read the beach boys have got back together to release a 2011 version - The Beach Boys and Co reimagine the Beach Boys Present SMiLE pre-Smiley Smile

[hypehat]

Would pay good money for Smiley Smile REDUX, in which the surviving bandmembers + Stamos, Jeff (to fill in for Denny & Carl) recreate the original recording with the exact same conditions on TV, similar to Big Brother.

[JMZ]

I think it makes as much logical sense to say that "Smiley Smile" is the official Smile as it does to say that Brian Wilson Presents Smile is the official Smile.

SMiLE has never been and will never be. So SMiLE is potentially everything. It's up to you, me, the fans, what the Beach Boys had in mind for Smiley Smile, what Brian Wilson had in mind in 2004, what Alan Boyd and Mark Linett have now in mind preparing CD1 of "The SMiLE Sessions", ect.


SMiLE is the first quantum album ever, and that's the beauty of it.  

[Andrew G. Doe]

Ok, so we're all agreed that the 2004 SMiLE is the official one?

Nope. The 'official' one is coming out later this year.

[Jason]

But who is to say what is official? We all have our own ideas.