SMiLE Sessions box set!

[The Shift]

I've said this before but I talked to Lorren several years before BWPS, so I don't know the guy but hearing him tell the story I have to think that what we saw on BD is missing a lot of context. He may be laughing but when I talked to him he had a warm regard for Brian. He told me that Brian had been pestering him for a long time about drugs but he put him off because he didn't feel Brian was suited to it. He saw the scene around Brian as juvenile and he was concerned that someone [someone in particular] was not going to be discriminating or give a fig for how Brian may handle it. Anyway, it may sound wrong headed now but I think he thought he had Brian's best interest in mind. I have to believe that the impression the scraps in the film have given may not  be an accurate one.

As I remember Schwartz changed his name for some religious/philosophical/spiritual reason unrelated to anything BB.

Excellent post, especially this: "he put him off because he didn't feel Brian was suited to it. He saw the scene around Brian as juvenile and he was concerned that someone [someone in particular] was not going to be discriminating or give a fig for how Brian may handle it. "

Shame he handed it over in the end, even if it did – perhaps – open Brian's mind to other musical ideas. The speculation that SMiLE might not have happened otherwise can only ever be that – speculation – but we oughtn't to live in a society driven by the drug-fuelled advancements of a few poor saps who're sacrificed for the many, in the name of progress. If SMiLE hadn't happened we wouldn't have missed it, and Brian might have led a healthier life.

I think it's time we "outed" Fishmonk as Loren "Daro" Schwartz and got back to mindless speculating about this box set we all seem to have forgotten about!

[hypehat]

Good god, take this to another thread will you? I saw this thread had gained 3 more pages overnight and thought they'd set a release date or Brian had eaten the USB stick with the masters on it by mistake or something!

I would take your 'Without LSD Smile never would have happened' crap seriously if Brian had the olympian intake of, say, John Lennon or nearly anyone else on the scene. But he took it THREE TIMES. You might as well say Reddi-Whip or a constant influx of Sirloins were the secret behind Smile.

[Dunderhead]

As for the latter: to say that LSD is not to blame, in that it only may make vivid that trauma, and so the trauma is the cause of eventual problems - IMHO that is nonsense. Many people live relatively successfully with more or less repressed memories, they can cope with them. It's called 'life', actually. I think that the agent which opens Pandora's Box absolutely must be considered very, very dangerous. In Holland, psychotherapy with Nazi concentration camp survivors, in which LSD was used, was stopped precisely for the above reasons.

Don, it's possible you may be remembering another study, but the one I remember hearing about had the exact OPPOSITE effect than what you're claiming.
They were run by Dr. Jan Bastiaans and participants reported: "I believe my life was saved," "I feel fully integrated in society" or "I feel that the treatment brought closure to a period of my life."
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v09n2/09203maa.html

I'm all for going back to talking about SMiLE. I just think, the isolation of psychedelic compounds is only of the most important discoveries in human history. Natural psychedelics have been involved in mystic, spiritual, and religious practice for thousands of years. If you have a story about how LSD will kill you or ruin your life, google it first before you go repeating it, and you'll likely find it was a fraud. No it will not make you stare into the sun, no you will not be "legally insane" if you do it 7 times, no it does not stay in your spine forever, etc etc etc.
LSD assisted therapy in the treatment of PTSD and alcoholism among other conditions still remains a promising avenue of research that deserves continued support. There's a lot of misinformation in just this thread that is the result of decades of media sensationalism and fear mongering.

There are some great books on the subject, books that a curious party (say one Brian Wilson) would have had access to. Check out the very famous "Doors of Perception" by Aldous Huxley (which The Doors were named after), "The Varieties of Psychedelic Experience" by Robert Masters or perhaps "The Joyous Cosmology" by the great Alan Watts. LSD has a bad rap, and I don't think it's anywhere near as dangerous as some want to make it out to be.


As for its effect on Brian Wilson, would California Girls have been written without it? Perhaps. Would I Know There's An Answer? Doubtful. SMiLE? Impossible to say, but I strongly believe SMiLE was a psychedelic album, and if you take the psychedelic part away, the project likely would have been vastly different. It just wouldn't have been SMiLE. It would have been something sure, it might have been as good as SMiLE, it might have been better, but I believe if Brian had never touched a drug and remained totally straight, SMiLE as we know it wouldn't have happened.

I would take your 'Without LSD Smile never would have happened' crap seriously if Brian had the olympian intake of, say, John Lennon or nearly anyone else on the scene. But he took it THREE TIMES. You might as well say Reddi-Whip or a constant influx of Sirloins were the secret behind Smile.

LSD does not really function in the way that many other drugs do. You don't have to do LSD every day to be affected by it. It's a profound, even religious experience. Imagine for a couple of hours that you felt you knew the meaning of existence, or believed you had understood the true nature of God. LSD isn't' the type of drug you bust out to do before a night on the town. It's a deep introspective experience where you're allowed to confront your past, and your true identity as a human being. Just one LSD trip is enough to change someone (for better or worse) for the rest of their life. Brian didn't need to down LSD like candy for it to influence the music he was making and I think SMiLE was deeply tied up in the incredible nature of LSD and the spirituality and beauty associated with it.
SMiLE was a psychedelic album be design. I think most of us wouldn't take much issue with saying that is was "psychedelic", so I guess I'm surprised at the hesitation in saying that psychedelic drugs were a major cornerstone to the whole project.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Brian didn't need to down LSD like candy for it to influence the music he was making and I think SMiLE was deeply tied up in the incredible nature of LSD and the spirituality and beauty associated with it.

The first song Brian wrote after taking acid was "California Girls". Beautiful, unquestionably. Spiritual ? No. Anything like Smile ? Equally, no.

There is one thing I will probably agree with you about: Brian Wilson was one of the last people on earth who should have taken LSD.

[hypehat]

LSD does not really function in the way that many other drugs do. You don't have to do LSD every day to be affected by it. It's a profound, even religious experience. Imagine for a couple of hours that you felt you knew the meaning of existence, or believed you had understood the true nature of God. LSD isn't' the type of drug you bust out to do before a night on the town. It's a deep introspective experience where you're allowed to confront your past, and your true identity as a human being. Just one LSD trip is enough to change someone (for better or worse) for the rest of their life. Brian didn't need to down LSD like candy for it to influence the music he was making and I think SMiLE was deeply tied up in the incredible nature of LSD and the spirituality and beauty associated with it.
SMiLE was a psychedelic album be design. I think most of us wouldn't take much issue with saying that is was "psychedelic", so I guess I'm surprised at the hesitation in saying that psychedelic drugs were a major cornerstone to the whole project.

I guess you had a very different LSD experience to me, then. I 'tripped' eventually, i guess, and hallucinated a wee bit, but mostly chatted the most obscure nonsense to my friends, saw an admittedly amazing sunrise then fell asleep and had nightmares. And a very slow day afterwards of talking to the cat.
I know they don't make it like they used to, and so on. But I'm pretty much the same guy. But personal experience when it comes to drugs is the most boring topic of conversation I know of, so I'll stop that.

I mean, personally I find the 'psychedelic' tag slightly reductive and ill-fitting to the project. Here we are talking about a record which encompasses Wordsworth, the nature of a child's transition to adulthood, the blood on the hands of the American settler, the Great Chicago Fire, healthy eating, whatever in hell Surf's Up is about, the greatest pop single ever recorded and much more. I just don't think drugs rank highly in relation to that.

[Chris Moise]

I guess you had a very different LSD experience to me, then. I 'tripped' eventually, i guess, and hallucinated a wee bit, but mostly chatted the most obscure nonsense to my friends, saw an admittedly amazing sunrise then fell asleep and had nightmares. And a very slow day afterwards of talking to the cat.

I know they don't make it like they used to, and so on. But I'm pretty much the same guy. But personal experience when it comes to drugs is the most boring topic of conversation I know of, so I'll stop that.

Sounds like you didn't have the good stuff and/or had a very small dose. The one common denominator with the psychedelic experience is that it is incredibly powerful and unique.

[SloopJohnB]

Is LSD a powerful drug? It certainly is one of the most potent. Have some people experienced psychological complications? Yes. Has it caused some people to do stupid things resulting in injury or death? Probably. But put that in perspective, how many people die each year due to incidents related to alcohol? The World Health Organization has reported that 4% of all deaths each year WORLDWIDE involved alcohol. And what about the deaths from lung cancer. What about the 100,000 Americans that die each year as a result of prescription drug side effects? How many die each year due to LSD related incidents? According to the Drug Abuse Warning Network, which tracks mentions of drugs in coroner's reports, it was 5 in 1999, but there hasn't been one since 2004 as far as I can see.

I'm pretty sure there are less LSD users than alcohol addicts (because it's illegal, thus harder to find), so the whole above paragraph is pointless. What would be interesting is the percentage of LSD users who die because of their drug use, the percentage of heavy drinkers who die because of their addiction, and so on... In short, data that's almost impossible to obtain.

Like Murry, I have a thousand words to say, but I'll stop there because this is sandbox material.

[18thofMay]

Is LSD a powerful drug? It certainly is one of the most potent. Have some people experienced psychological complications? Yes. Has it caused some people to do stupid things resulting in injury or death? Probably. But put that in perspective, how many people die each year due to incidents related to alcohol? The World Health Organization has reported that 4% of all deaths each year WORLDWIDE involved alcohol. And what about the deaths from lung cancer. What about the 100,000 Americans that die each year as a result of prescription drug side effects? How many die each year due to LSD related incidents? According to the Drug Abuse Warning Network, which tracks mentions of drugs in coroner's reports, it was 5 in 1999, but there hasn't been one since 2004 as far as I can see.

I'm pretty sure there are less LSD users than alcohol addicts (because it's illegal, thus harder to find), so the whole above paragraph is pointless. What would be interesting is the percentage of LSD users who die because of their drug use, the percentage of heavy drinkers who die because of their addiction, and so on... In short, data that's almost impossible to obtain.

Like Murry, I have a thousand words to say, but I'll stop there because this is sandbox material.

Yeah i agree and I feel semi responsible, Fishmonk is pro drugs.. I agree with AGD and you all who believe this was a real bad move for Brian. I think it is bad for everbody. There is clear evidence that LSD use can cause people to read way to much into lyrics that were clearly written whilst under the influence of drugs..

[Roger Ryan]

You know, I'm thinking I made a big mistake in mentioning BEAUTIFUL DREAMER a few pages back 

Since the thread got derailed, I'll only add that Brian's amphetamine use during this period has got to be far more destructive to his health (mental or otherwise) than two or three LSD trips.

[hypehat]

I guess you had a very different LSD experience to me, then. I 'tripped' eventually, i guess, and hallucinated a wee bit, but mostly chatted the most obscure nonsense to my friends, saw an admittedly amazing sunrise then fell asleep and had nightmares. And a very slow day afterwards of talking to the cat.

I know they don't make it like they used to, and so on. But I'm pretty much the same guy. But personal experience when it comes to drugs is the most boring topic of conversation I know of, so I'll stop that.

Sounds like you didn't have the good stuff and/or had a very small dose. The one common denominator with the psychedelic experience is that it is incredibly powerful and unique.

Yeah, it was pretty low quality stuff. Although I tried it a couple of times more, that one time was typical. Did have a pretty lengthy 'something' one time, but i had ingested several other substances too at the time so probs doesn't count.

Roger Ryan OTM.

[The Heartical Don]

You know, I'm thinking I made a big mistake in mentioning BEAUTIFUL DREAMER a few pages back 

Since the thread got derailed, I'll only add that Brian's amphetamine use during this period has got to be far more destructive to his health (mental or otherwise) than two or three LSD trips.

You may be very right on the speed issue. Many amphetamine(like) drugs have a nasty longterm effect: essential transmission-related molecules in your brain get down-regulated, as some first-line adaptive move... but when the use is prolonged, it's impossible to retrieve the original balance. You're in a hole. I always detest it when someone sings the praises of Ecstacy (XTC, MDMA). When you use it longtime, you'll inevitably get depressed as a result. And then Satan himself faces you: anti-depressants can't help you out of this misery, because precisely the system that they affect in your brain has been effectively been partially destroyed for ever.


Don't smoke. Don't drink in excess. For the rest: just say no. Addictions are sh*t. Topic over for me.

[bgas]

I guess you had a very different LSD experience to me, then. I 'tripped' eventually, i guess, and hallucinated a wee bit, but mostly chatted the most obscure nonsense to my friends, saw an admittedly amazing sunrise then fell asleep and had nightmares. And a very slow day afterwards of talking to the cat.

I know they don't make it like they used to, and so on. But I'm pretty much the same guy. But personal experience when it comes to drugs is the most boring topic of conversation I know of, so I'll stop that.

Sounds like you didn't have the good stuff and/or had a very small dose. The one common denominator with the psychedelic experience is that it is incredibly powerful and unique.

Yeah, it was pretty low quality stuff. Although I tried it a couple of times more, that one time was typical. Did have a pretty lengthy 'something' one time, but i had ingested several other substances too at the time so probs doesn't count.

I'll add( completely personal and non BBs related):  many trips I took may have been "lesser quality", but after 100 trips, thereabouts, and 40 years later, I don't feel like I'm any different.... 
FM: do some deep personal researchon the subject. stop relying on what you read. 

[donald]

Remember Loren's story about brian going into the bedroom and covering himself with a planket or pillow?

I think most "bad" trips are like that for most people.  Introversion, fear , bewilderment, and anxiety.  People generally believe that they may be "going crazy" but actually its all in their head.  The sit scrunched up on a couch or withdraw/isolate until the peak intensity fades.    ("well, thats enough of that!"---  " I should think so Brian") The business of jumping out windows or into traffic and such, have always seemed farfetched, and probably very very rare.

HOWEVER;  unstable people or people with preexisting mental disturbances, however mild, should avoid mind altering recreational drugs.

[lance]

I have done my share of drugs in my twenties; I don't think they did me long-term damage. But I'm lucky(and I was very careful).

 I know so many people whose lives are quite frankly utterly f***ed because of them. Beautiful people, but they are f***ed. And they hate themselves because of it.

It breaks my heart.

[Mr. Cohen]

The first song Brian wrote after taking acid was "California Girls". Beautiful, unquestionably. Spiritual ? No.

Who are you to say that "California Girls" isn't spiritual? Lyrically, no, it isn't. But musically, in terms of tone and melody? I would say - most likely - yes. Keep in mind, Brian considers the jogs he went on as a teenager as spiritual. He processes his experiences differently, and he claims that his acid trips were spiritual in nature. But you don't think one of the best songs he ever composed, while on acid, isn't spiritual in content? I think you're off. He went with the more typical lyrics because he wanted people to like it, so that as many people as possible would hear the spiritual ecstasy he was communicating musically. It's the Spector sound as interpreted by Brian.

And this whole Loren Schwartz thing is ridiculous. He's mother fucking Brian Wilson. If he really wanted acid, he could've gotten it from someone else.

[homeontherange]

I don't think you should be too harsh on the acid. LSD opens up your mind and makes you see yourself from the outside in a very spiritual and mostly good way. I believe Brian got connected with his incredibly deep musicality using acid. It's pretty evident when you see the songs he started writing after his first trips. Everything after his LSD introduction is very spiritual, very complex and original.
Acid is ofcourse not very good if you have an instable mind (sometimes it can be very good though - for me it pretty much took away all my anxiety), but I think the cannabis he smoked probably affected him worse. If you're an anxious or mentally instable person, cannabis can be really horrible. When you're on acid, you mostly see the beautiful sides of yourself. And if you have a bad trip, you can most often learn something about yourself and actually understand the things you see in yourself. Anxiety on cannabis is really terrible. It's like these negative thought loops that makes you feel like sh*t, and it's sometimes impossible to escape these negative thoughts, if you've smoked a lot. You only see the bad things about yourself, and can't stop thinking about it. And then these negative thoughts start coming even when you're not high. This is my experience, but I think Brian might have suffered something similar, and I think it might have been the cannabis that gave him the schizoactive disorder stuff.
Also, I think the amphetamines might have had an impact on his brain.

[Mahalo]

That doesn't mean LSD is relatively harmless. Some people mentally prepare themselves to voluntarily go on a journey to expand there mind and soul...others do not and just want to get high.

While both people may walk away fine, each may have a different understanding of the drug. The one who just wants to get high, like anything else, is more likey to abuse the drug. This is where I take issue. I, like others here, also have experience in these matters to some degree or another. For me, it was the former, a journey and an awakening. However if it was accepted as relatively harmless, and it was relatively easy to get I would have most certainly abused this drug. I imagine many others would too. Syd Barrett is a shining example of this.

As a former addict I will honestly tell anyone the pros and cons of drugs. LSD is a tricky little bitch...and that alone makes it a risk for anyone take no matter how grounded they are.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I don't think you should be too harsh on the acid. LSD opens up your mind and makes you see yourself from the outside in a very spiritual and mostly good way. I believe Brian got connected with his incredibly deep musicality using acid. It's pretty evident when you see the songs he started writing after his first trips. Everything after his LSD introduction is very spiritual, very complex and original.

Everything ?

The Girl From New York City
Amusement Parks USA
Salt Lake City
Girl Don't Tell Me
You're So Good To Me
I'm Bugged At My Ol' Man

Beware the sweeping statement.

[bossaroo]

the intro to California Girls is absolutely spiritual. I'm sure Brian thinks so. to me, it's like a musical sunrise.

and is that the story... that Brian only took acid 3 times? not sure i buy that.


anyway... let's get this topic off drugs and back to the music:

do you think the line "hit the dirt, do a two-and-a-half" could refer to heroin and hits of acid? 

[pixletwin]

Amusement Parks USA I can see as a drug inspired song.... that insane clown laughing... woa man. Just "whoa". 

[Andrew G. Doe]

do you think the line "hit the dirt, do a two-and-a-half" could refer to heroin and hits of acid?  

My initial - and continuing - reading of that line was "do a two-and-a-half forward roll". Which granted means you end up standing on your head.

Amusement Parks USA I can see as a drug inspired song.... that insane clown laughing... woa man. Just "whoa". 

Well DUH ! on me - and there was simple little ol' me thinking it was about, y'know, going to amusement parks.  I guess "Jersey's Steel Pier" is actually a big needle, right ?

Dammit, I know nothing.

[onkster]

Well, I'm right now going to sing the praises of XTC...specifically Skylarking, Oranges and Lemons, Mummer, and of course the Dukes of Stratosphear.

I can't say I'm the same person since. But perhaps a better one.

[pixletwin]

No AGD, you just gotta open your mind to the possibilities.

(in case some are not following, I am in sarcastic mode suggesting that Amusement Parks is a druggie song) 

[Dunderhead]

I totally agree with you guys, I came across this bit in a great BB book recently and thought I would share:

"Brian was very particular about his method of composition during the SMiLE era.
First he detoxed for several days to ensure that his system was clean and his songs would not be influenced by any foreign substances.
Then he would compose the melody for a song.
After that he would write down on a 4''X8'' notecard, in 5 words or less, what he wanted the lyrics to be about.
He would play the song once through to Van Dyke, and immediately afterward Van Dyke would be locked in an isolation booth, with nothing but a single piece of paper, a pen, an egg timer, and the aforementioned notecard. 
When the egg timer rang, the song was done, Van Dyke was released from the isolation chamber at which point he was forced to sign a confidentiality agreement to not discuss the content or thought behind the lyrics with anyone, not even Brian, under pain of lawsuit.
If at any time an alternative, or metaphorical meaning was discovered in the lyrics, Van Dyke's contract was to be terminated.

Some fans have speculated that this was an instance of the out of control perfectionism that eventually brought the project down. Others have suggested that if Brian had not been so meticulous in his method, songs like Barnyard, that unforgettable ballad about the classic teenage pastime of doing handstands in pig pens, would likely never have been realized."

[bgas]

I totally agree with you guys, I came across this bit in a great BB book recently and thought I would share:

"Brian was very particular about his method of composition during the SMiLE era.
First he detoxed for several days to ensure that his system was clean and his songs would not be influenced by any foreign substances.
Then he would compose the melody for a song.
After that he would write down on a 4''X8'' notecard, in 5 words or less, what he wanted the lyrics to be about.
He would play the song once through to Van Dyke, and immediately afterward Van Dyke would be locked in an isolation booth, with nothing but a single piece of paper, a pen, an egg timer, and the aforementioned notecard. 
When the egg timer rang, the song was done, Van Dyke was released from the isolation chamber at which point he was forced to sign a confidentiality agreement to not discuss the content or thought behind the lyrics with anyone, not even Brian, under pain of lawsuit.
If at any time an alternative, or metaphorical meaning was discovered in the lyrics, Van Dyke's contract was to be terminated.

Some fans have speculated that this was an instance of the out of control perfectionism that eventually brought the project down. Others have suggested that if Brian had not been so meticulous in his method, songs like Barnyard, that unforgettable ballad about the classic teenage pastime of doing handstands in pig pens, would likely never have been realized."

Most fans simply speculate that Fishmonk is out of his gourd from too many acid trips and he found the bit in "the BBs and the Satan" which he co-wrote.