I'd imagaine there would be issues with how old the software this board uses when it comes to making all pages secure. The software is now 9 years out of date.

Correct.  Someday maybe I will be able to fix that.

Hi Chuck, is there a roadmap/plan that could be put in place for such a transition? And could the mods here help facilitate any work moving forward to help this happen? Could our community as a whole do anything to help this happen?

And man this place and its mods sure do live rent free in some people's minds. Once this boards issues are figured out it'll be nice for the universe as a collective whole to not be subjected to posts about "Chuckie" and the "mods" from the EH forum.

On the forum where they pat themselves on the back daily for their supposed positivity and inclusion, Dae Lims is getting completely shellacked for his work there.

Kinda blows my mind that a lot of people can't see the talent/time it takes to make these tracks - nor see anything remotely positive about it. Or see the imagination behind creating these harmonies, etc.. I mean I don't think that everyone has to like this stuff, and there have been tracks I haven't liked, but it's kinda crazy seeing the dogpile of hate.

People have made Smile mixes for how long now? People have been using Brian Wilson's very own work/voice to create their own fantasy album(s) for how many decades now? I know this is a whole other universe of technology/creativity, but at its heart it is the same thing: a fan trying to create something that never was.

As Guitarfool said above: But if a fan does work like this who clearly knows the music on a level beyond collecting records and being a fan, and can import the precise musical details into the work and be musically and sonically accurate in doing so, it's a work of art unto itself.

I googled this crime and found an interesting tidbit from Karmafrog on reddit:

"Scott was far from blameless, but I'll just say there was some very selective release of information and omission of context by the prosecution, and the media coverage that resulted.
....

Some of what I know is second hand through a (female, and very feminist) lawyer who viewed the entirety of the tape, not just what was released. She was outraged at how it was portrayed."

Those closer to Scott are probably more willing to forgive based on context that those of us in the nose-bleed section aren't privy to.

Dae Lims presents AI Dennis Wilson singing Holy Man, with special guests the AI Beach Boys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jnPAXYUQnM

I don’t want to gush about this, but when I listen to this it feels like the first time I heard some of my favorite beach boys tracks. Anyone else feel this way?

And yet it’s fake…And I don’t really care. This hits me right where stereo ‘Don’t Worry Baby’ hits me. That coda made my jaw drop to the floor.

Dae Lims, you’re really doing something special here. With all the terrible things AI can be used for, you’re creating something so beautiful - in the true spirit of the band itself.

Dae Lims definitely deserves credit for putting all this overblown AI technology to creative use producing most rewarding results.  I'm still not entirely clear how he utilizes the tech though.  Is he singing the vocals himself and then running his voice through an AI genorator to change his voice to whomever he wants?  If that's the case then you have to really appreciate his skill.  Because I'm assuming you have to adopt the phrasing and tonality of the desired singer's voice to really pull off sounding like them.  In this most recent offering you can really pick out "Carl" and "Al" in the appropriate places.

I’m not sure if he does a breakdown of every track he works on, but he has streamed hour+ long breakdowns on YouTube where he goes into great detail about how he puts these together. Here is the one for the Like I Love in You:
https://www.youtube.com/live/N4EZSHqPVwQ?si=0hPO7cTuVajOo7yy

Speaking of which, that’s one of my favorite BW solo tracks - and this latest AI track is phenomenal!! Couldn’t have asked for a better mix.

man who had a lifetime of heavy drug use

I'm not sure that "lifetime" is a totally fair descriptor.  Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that, over the course of approximately 15-20 years, Brian had periods of heavy drug use?  Without a doubt, though, drug use comparable to Brian's during those bouts would have and did kill many of his peers, cf. Elvis, Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin, Keith Moon and many others.  It is indeed a minor miracle that Brian is very much alive at 4 score and 1.5 .  I agree that Melinda deserves a big share of the credit for Brian's survival, but it does "take a village," and Carl Wilson as well as friends such David Leaf and all the Peter Reums and Jeff Fosketts and Darian Sahanaja's in Brian's life have made their own contributions as well.  But you know who, I think ultimately deserves the lion's share of the credit for Brian Wilson's survival?  One Brian Douglas Wilson. There's a tendency to see Brian as this rather helpless, semi-passive player in his destiny.  But I do think most of this boils down to Brian's own will to survive and actions of surrounding himself with the right people and making healthier choices

Yeah "lifetime" is probably not the best descriptor. Also want to add that I forget if Brian's voices tell him to "kill himself" as I wrote above - I do know they say absolutely horrible things, but I'm not 100% on what I wrote above.

Everything else I totally agree. I hope my previous post did clarify that I think Brian is a huge part of his own survival (hence my mentioning how his big heart has helped him overcome so much with the help of others). If I've learned anything from my years of being a fan, it's that most everything I've read/heard about Brian Wilson (especially from his detractors) is false - he is the furthest I could think of being helpless/vegetable. After hearing all that nonsense for years on end, and then watching him control soundcheck one night before a concert, I gotta say that's a man in control - and it's awesome to witness.

Great post, Rab and it mirrors my thoughts to a T!! I've met Melinda twice and she was very genuine in my eyes.

Sadly, some fans don’t appreciate the care Brian has been given since 1991. I often wonder if these fans wish Brian had never met Melinda. In the spirit of the season, it makes me think of ‘It’s a Wonderful Life’ where George Bailey gets to see what life would be like without him. While some fans despise Melinda’s presence in Brian’s life, I wonder if these fans have taken the time to wonder what Brian’s life would look like had he never met her. I’m sure they’d envision a life full of re-blossoming creative power that leads Brian to creating a series of solo albums that rival his genius on Pet Sounds. Or perhaps Brian reunites with The Beach Boys and they create a resurgence of commercial success unrivaled by any of their contemporaries. Or perhaps it’s a life of small creative achievements accompanied by Brian living a happy single/bachelor lifestyle until he’s 90 years old.

Yet the stark reality is that Brian has severe mental issues that aren’t treated/solved by Brian being best-buds with creatives in the studio. His mental issues were never treated by fame. His mental issues could never be alleviated solely by him never getting remarried.

Brian is a person who, *with* medication, hears voices that tell him to kill himself. He is a person who, when given the reins to his life, nearly killed himself with an overabundant diet of steak and cocaine. In a world where Brian never meets Melinda, who is the person who facilitates Brian’s physical and mental care (to the point where he beats ALL the odds and is living into his 80s)? Who is the person who manages Brian’s financial wealth (to the point where his children’s children’s children will never have to worry about money)? Who is the person who helps manage Brian’s music career (to where he has 10+ quality solo albums and an incredible live performing career post-91)?

I think the most important question is this: is Brian living a happier life now than he would be if he had never met Melinda? Or should we ask if Brian would even be alive now had he never met Melinda?

We will never know that. What we do know is that a man who had a lifetime of heavy drug use, nearly died of overdose, who is a manic depressive with schizoaffective disorder is still alive at 81 years old. That is a miracle straight from the creator Himself - and to not credit Melinda or anyone else currently in Brian’s life as an instrument in such a miracle is asinine.

I think what saved Brian, and what still keeps him alive to this day, is the collective love from every imperfect person that has cared for Brian all his life - be it Carl, be it Peter Reum, be it Marylin or Melinda, his children/friends, be it the fans who cheer Brian on through the thick and thin, etc.. Their love coupled with Brian’s big heart have kept him going all these years.

I just hope he's in a good place now. I hope he's enjoying his life with his family and friends. He's given us a lot.  Do I hope that we hear a bit more from him? Sure I do. But if not, and he just wants to relax, fine with me.

This is exactly where I'm at now, too. I just want him to be happy - if that means being on the road, in the studio, or being at home watching The Price is Right. Given his age and physical capabilities, I hope he's doing the best he can right now.

Hey Lonely Summer, thanks for your post. Your agreeing with me to a point could be a matter of my post intentionally having a very quick overview of Brian’s 70s/80s life (and not being in-depth enough to credit Landy for Brian making a weight/health reversal from his 300 pound era). While I agree that Brian did look better from his 300 pound self, there were also moments in pictures and video where clearly something isn't right - Brian looks healthy, but his eyes look vacant. Brian looks tan and thin, but he's also doped up to the point where's he nearly drooling on a TV interview.

I quickly looked up some Brian Wilson interviews on YouTube - one from 1984, and his Letterman appearance in 1988 - what a stark contrast in demeanor. He seems absolutely mentally with it in 1984, and just 4 years later he's acting like he's a patient of Nurse Ratched. So while there was improvement in the 80s, a quick overview shows he was still on a downward spiral (which I'm sure we'd both fully agree on).

I was watching the "evolution of Brian Wilson" video on YouTube last night, and I was blown away by the 180º turnaround in his voice (and other band/instrument qualities) from the mid-90s onward. And it's a mostly consistent great voice from the mid-90s onward. It's just crazy to hear it summed up in 10 minutes on that video.

That evolution video showcases the absolute horrific changes in Brian's life during the 70s and 80s - it was crazy to see him going from normal Brian to 300 pounds, ragged looking, to the atrocious skinny ken-doll look that Landy forced onto him. But then in the mid-90s onward Brian just looks like an average Joe. And he sounds great - his songs, his voice, they all have a consistent/coherent polish.

I know it's somehow "cool" in some circles to constantly hate on Melinda...but you can't deny her involvement in Brian's life and his simultaneous vast improvement in health, music, etc. And I realize that it's also the positive influence from so many people in his life during this time (from bandmates to close friends).

Someone wrote in the comment section of that video: "It's so unsettling to see his eyes darken and getting sunken as his inner turmoil deepens, but it's so heartwarming to see them brightening up as if he were a child again as he grows older." - that sums it all up. You can see it in his eyes, you can especially hear it in his music. Obviously he's had bumps in the road during these years, but I can't imagine he'd still be with us if it weren't for the love/support he's had since Melinda came on the scene.

Anywho, it's probably corny, but a huge THANK YOU to Melinda and to all others who have shown Brian love for the last 30+ years. You've given him and all of us fans such an incredible gift.

I'm also immensely grateful for Melinda and for others who have helped Brian. Sometimes I'm amazed that, given his struggles, not only has he outlived both his brothers, but he also gave us a surprise (and rather fine) recording and touring career later in life.

I had a seat near the front for the 50th anniversary concert I attended. During one of the closing songs when Brian was playing bass, he stopped singing momentarily and contorted his face. (Since Brian has said he still experiences auditory hallucinations even while performing, I assumed that was the reason.) I saw him say to someone seated nearby, "Where's Melinda?" That spoke to me as to what a support she is to him.

Or he wanted to make sure she wasn't getting into a fist fight with Mike's wife But for real that's an awesome story.

My only issue with his recording career is that there isn't more of it! I very much had hoped he would make his rock & roll album Pleasure Island and am sad that that never happened (there is still time, but I highly doubt it will happen). But he has given us so much more than we could've imagined or deserved.

From the "vaults." Dae Lims unearthed 1960s version of She's Got Rhythm, in mono and with crackles straight from the 45!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUgaztzcizk

First one I've not been overly thrilled about. The quality is great - it's just that Brian's vocal sounds too polished. The track kinda sounds like it would fit perfectly on an early 2000's arthritis prescription medicine commercial. Reminds me of AGD's comment (I forget it he said it or if he heard it from somewhere else) about Soulful Old Man Sunshine sounding like it was made for a shampoo/conditioner commercial haha.

Whereas the MIU version is great because it doesn't sound polished...while Brian is trying to sound like his younger self, he still sounds gruff - has sort of a 'Drip Drop', 'Shortenin Bread' vibe that really makes the corniness of the composition work.

Just my two cents, but as always, smile AD does a fantastic job creating/mixing!

I was watching the "evolution of Brian Wilson" video on YouTube last night, and I was blown away by the 180º turnaround in his voice (and other band/instrument qualities) from the mid-90s onward. And it's a mostly consistent great voice from the mid-90s onward. It's just crazy to hear it summed up in 10 minutes on that video.

That evolution video showcases the absolute horrific changes in Brian's life during the 70s and 80s - it was crazy to see him going from normal Brian to 300 pounds, ragged looking, to the atrocious skinny ken-doll look that Landy forced onto him. But then in the mid-90s onward Brian just looks like an average Joe. And he sounds great - his songs, his voice, they all have a consistent/coherent polish.

I know it's somehow "cool" in some circles to constantly hate on Melinda...but you can't deny her involvement in Brian's life and his simultaneous vast improvement in health, music, etc. And I realize that it's also the positive influence from so many people in his life during this time (from bandmates to close friends).

Someone wrote in the comment section of that video: "It's so unsettling to see his eyes darken and getting sunken as his inner turmoil deepens, but it's so heartwarming to see them brightening up as if he were a child again as he grows older." - that sums it all up. You can see it in his eyes, you can especially hear it in his music. Obviously he's had bumps in the road during these years, but I can't imagine he'd still be with us if it weren't for the love/support he's had since Melinda came on the scene.

Anywho, it's probably corny, but a huge THANK YOU to Melinda and to all others who have shown Brian love for the last 30+ years. You've given him and all of us fans such an incredible gift.

[Brian's keytar lifts from his body and vanishes into the rafters]

"As the band winds down, Brian's keytar lifts from his body and vanishes into the rafters. A grand piano slides out to center stage, and the band members vanish in puffs of smoke."

"Little kids, all in leather jackets and with mini-keytars, rush out onstage to surround Brian. Wearing a terrified look, he plays"

This is epic, thanks for this.

A couple thoughts: I really wish I had gotten to hear Brian Wilson play 'Night Time' live in-person. That is such a terribly overlooked track, "Sun's sinking down, it's gettin' dark" ahhh such a great tune.

And I love this fandom with its alternate histories - I guess that's the joy of having this band be a never-ending entity from the 60s onward. And how absolutely quirky they can be - and yet nearly believable

Looking forward to the second set!!

As for remastering/remixing; I have never been crazy impressed with the '66/'67 sound quality of Smile.

There are big differences in sound quality from song to song.  The 2011 remix of Vega-Tables, for instances, sounds really good to me. Old Master Painter / Sunshine is typical of a half-dozen or so tracks that sound fairly lo-fi.  Many sections  of H&V sound like crap.  I suppose that there are number of factors at place: subpar initial recording in some cases, tape deterioration/damage in others, 2nd/3rd generation copies of some material.

IIRC, even in 1967-68, David Anderle was complaining, in his print interviews with Paul Williams,  about the poor sound quality of the H&V 45 mix.  To some extent, the issue may be due to Brian moving away from his method of mostly recording at Western with Chuck Britz engineering to being all over the place with Good Vibrations and Smile, i.e.., a little here at Western, a little there at Gold Star, a bit more at RCA, and then a few at Sound Recorders  etc. etc., and then eventually, by June '67 into the home studio.  

I completely forgot about Vega-Tables - that Smile Sessions mix of that is one of the coolest sonic experiences, especially that second chorus. I’ve always been bummed about how ‘Holidays’ sounds so lo-fi. The marimba on ‘All Summer Long’ from two years prior sounds infinitely better. The BWPS version really makes that song pop, imo.

Yeah, I am not the biggest fans of the flown in "Child, Child, the Child" vocals on TSS's 'Look'. And while I'm never bothered by stuff like that on fan mixes, something about it doesn't ring right with it being on an official mix. And look at the backlash that the 2021 mixes of 'Marcela' and 'YNAMOHTSA' got - I'd imagine that controversy would pale in comparison to any official AI vocals.

As for remastering/remixing; I have never been crazy impressed with the '66/'67 sound quality of Smile. I've always found it odd that stereo Pet Sounds sounds like a Dolby 5.1 cathedral of angelic music in comparison to the bare-bones/sparse/tinny sound of The Smile Sessions (with the exception of a few songs, Cabin-essence in particular). Though I think this is less to do the with the mixing, and more with the original instruments and production of the songs.

So if Giles Martin were able to remix Smile, where it sounds like I'm standing in the middle of a Smile cathedral, I would be perfectly happy.

ahhh man his voice and harmonies have brought a lot of joy to the fandom. I can see him singing harmonies with the angels right now. Thanks, Jeff, for all of your hard work over the years.

What sad sad news.

Thanks for getting things back up, Chuck. And thanks everyone for being a part of this forum - some weeks are slow, some are full of posts, but either way, you guys are great. Happy thanksgiving from us in the USA to everyone here, Endless Harmony, and elsewhere! We're all fans of a band that has given us so much to be thankful for (and they keep on giving).

Not sure if this has been posted here yet, but this is one of the coolest AI tracks I've heard (Old Man River):

https://youtu.be/IJjqmt7wrbE?si=Y1PRvl2MGnYr19KT

I am not that impressed by the song…..it’s only ok John…clearly unfinished…and while it brings a smile it doesn’t add to the legacy (but is certainly inoffensive)

Try this version: It's an interpretation by a musician named David Rodriguez under the name DreamerJazz, imagining the song as if the Beatles played it on Ed Sullivan in '64.

David's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dreamerjazz352/

And here's the track, skip to 1:08 for the song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tSefoJDKsU

It works in this context, sounds a lot like Lennon's 1963 era songwriting, more than the new version.

I ran across this as well! Was very impressed with how well that kid transferred the song to a completely different era.

I said it in another thread, but it's less about the songwriting itself and more about hearing one last "reunion". The song isn't on par with their best work, or even really their middle-of-the-road work, but it makes me a very happy camper hearing John's voice come through clearly on an official record, and hearing 'The Beatles' play their instruments "together" one last time.

'Free as a Bird' and 'Real Love' feel like this for me as well - and granted those have much more defined structure and cohesive songwriting, but they still feel exactly like what they are: Lennon demos with instruments/voices tacked over them. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And likewise, 'Now and Then' feels like a more polished version of that, only the songwriting isn't as up-to-par.

Anyways, it's a treat to hear, nothing more, nothing less. In an age where vulgar and seemingly talentless music flood the top of the charts, I'll take this any day over that other drivel.

I’m back after 6 months without internet access… will be here more often now.

Billy! It’s great to see you back here. Missed you!

But I think that’s partially my point: in the crazy amount of years these guys were a band, solo or together, they made a lot of music, much of it still in demo form, and I just thought that while our guys were still alive and breathing it would be interesting for them to find an album’s worth of songs that were left unfinished (or songs they weren’t happy with) to make a “reunion” album of sorts.

Frankly this was more of a thought experiment to get some life back on this forum so thanks for contributing more of an abstract thing, not something I legit think should or could happen.

For me, I think it’s less about the quality of the songwriting than it is a glimpse at something that shouldn’t even be possible. John’s voice sounds crystal clear in that vocal extraction, and that in itself made me nearly fall out of my seat when I heard it yesterday. Not to mention those beautiful strings.

So I guess it’s more about the idea of hearing the Beatles magic one last time. Perhaps it’s more nostalgia driven than anything. On a YouTube comment from the documentary, someone pointed out that John’s lyric:

And if I make it through
It's all because of you

Is poetically fitting that it’s all because of the rest of the band and the fans that allowed John’s song to “make it through”. Yeah it’s kinda cheesy but nonetheless fitting.

There is a lot of (deserved - the documentary released yesterday about Now and Then stomped out any fears of mine that the new single would disappoint) hype in the music world about the upcoming Beatles single (just another hour, I think!?), and it got me thinking: are there any Now and Then moments from The Beach Boys catalogue that could be used for a “reunion” album of sorts?

One song in particular stuck out to me: Thank Him. Smile AD’s AI version of that song is revelatory. While the song is clearly brilliant in its original demo form, using AI to make it sound clean really puts a spotlight on how incredible that song is.

Using Peter Jackson’s* technology I wonder if there are other songs that The Beach Boys could extract vocals, instruments, and then add their own stuff to it in the studio. Get a decent producer (yes, Brian would obviously spearhead the music production, but they’d really need someone to guide the boat as far as band relations and overall cohesive vintage sound go…someone keep Joe Thomas far far away from the studio).

*people call it Peter Jackson’s technology, however I do not know if he was the one who wrote the code for the algorithm or just popularized an already existing technology.

One thing that comes to mind: just because you can doesn’t mean you should. As it seems everything this band touches always has some ridiculous caveat (whether it’s autotune, infighting, etc), I highly doubt a project like this would be as successful as it could be. But in a perfect world, I wonder if something like this could happen: A full album of tastefully completed vintage beach boys demos released in 2023, further showcasing the band’s brilliance.

Well I see your point about it being a musical community. And I agree that it would be awesome if more people from across The Beach Boys musical community were more involved with these projects (kind of like The Beach Boys cover collaborations we did years back on this forum)...and I'm sure, in time, they will be. That these are the very first steps into this new musical landscape says a lot about the potential of this new technology.

Also, I'm not sure what Smile AD's musical background is, but there is definite talent there (I implore people to watch his behind-the-scenes videos on YouTube where he uncovers the layers of vocals/instrumentals he worked on for his Smile mix). And FatherOfTheMan has been making records for the last 10 years? I think it's just new technology, combined with time limitations, etc..

That being said, if it's not convincing for you then it's not convincing...and there's nothing wrong with that. Honestly, some part of me is happy that we can tell the difference between AI Brian and real Brian. Another part of me is excited to see just how convincing these tracks will become in the next few years.

It’s a crazy world these days. I’ve tried to get my daughters into classic rock but like a lot of the current generation if it happened before 2010 they don’t want to know about it. To them *NSYNC is a classic rock band! I feel like the ability to just listen to only what you want these days is harming culture because no one is forced anymore to listen to something different. When I was a kid, we listened to whatever our folks played and developed an appreciation for older music. Now the kids all have their own cell phones and air buds and tune it out.

Yeah I am really wondering how my kid is going to wade the ocean of music that is at everyone's fingertips now. I want her to have her own tastes of course, but I also want her to understand the beauty of harmony and quality music (music that goes beyond the usual generic 4 chord structure seems pervasive in modern music).

At a very young age my parents gave me a walkman, and a few years later I graduated to the discman. I was able to purchase my own CDs at Sam Goody or Plan 9 (or Circuit City), and I definitely had my own taste in music. However in my late-teens early 20s I gravitated toward classic rock (Zeppelin, Beatles, Beach Boys) and other music I would've found "uncool" when I was in middle/high school.

I think kids listen to what their peers are listening to, not because it's good, but because it's cool. And later in life they come to appreciate the various genres/bands throughout history. It is why classical is still a big industry. People eventually walk away from current-culture and gravitate to what speaks to their soul...whatever that may be.

[BWPS]

Well one thing I'll say is that I hope the comments get opened up to fans who didn't attend those concerts. I wasn't a big fan back then and didn't even know SMiLE was a thing until 2009 (so I never attended a concert).

A lot of new Beach Boys fans have entered the fold in the last 20 years (man I can't believe 20 years has passed since 2004) who never attended these concerts, yet BWPS had a huge impact on their music life (and life in general). I will never forget my first time hearing BWPS, and it was just like when I first heard Pet Sounds. It was one of those lightbulb moments where you realize you're hearing such a brilliant piece of art for the first time. My point being, while I know those concerts were absolute magic for people back in 2004 (and how envious I am of those who were able to attend!), it shouldn't isolate those who, having never attended the concerts, have found the album itself to be just as magical in its own special way in the 20 years since the concerts.

And that probably sounds more whiny than I intend it to be. I'll be buying the book regardless (I'm really looking forward to the history aspect of BWPS in the book. And I have always loved hearing stories about the concerts). But it may be cool to get perspectives from young fans who dig BWPS as well.

Also, really hoping that the powers that be do something special with this album for the 20th. Please do a remix, Dolby Atmos, instrumentals, studio chatter of Brian in at the helm in the studio, the live performances (all mixed beautifully). Intermixed with the instrumentals/studio chatter have interviews with Brian, Van, Darian, etc recalling the making of the album.

Just do something special. I feel like this album has lost a little bit of love over the years, and it really needs to be held in higher regard, imo.