[here]

Hey all,

I came across some new technology and decided to have a little fun with it!

Here's one to test the waters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13ICunDuIcg&ab_channel=DaeLims

I've been debating posting, but it was too overwhelming to think I'm the only who has heard any of this stuff.  

The technology is here. Should we have some fun before all the sh*t takes start popping up?  

PS - Lots more where this came from, if people are interested!

This is unbelievable....like in a weird, good, bad, amazing way

Seriously it wasn't perfect but moments in there sounded like straight up Brian. And to heck with perfection, that this is even remotely possible is mind-blowing. I can't even imagine how this technology will transform even in just the next year.

I'm rather concerned about this technology for many reasons, but this is a case where the creative in me is excited for the possibilities.

We have MIDI orchestras, pianos, etc that can help us replicate an orchestra/band. And now we can add "Brian Wilson", "Carl Wilson", etc to the list of instruments people can use to create their own little slices of beautiful music.

I'm sure a lot of bad sounding stuff will come from this, but I can imagine that we'll all be pleasantly surprised (as we already are) at some gems that come from this new era of technology.

Great work, seltaeb!

Does make one wonder though - because let's say Carl was still with us right now: from 1998 to 2023 is 25 years, and that's a LONG time. While Mike and Bruce have seemed to be perfectly happy being on the road during that entire time, I wonder if Carl would've been less likely to do the same thing day in and day out, and rather would've gotten the itch to do something more creative with Brian in an official capacity.

OR if Carl's presence in The Beach Boys, during the past 25 years, would've created a more suitable common ground for both Mike and Brian to reconcile. I know almost nothing about Brian, the band, and the band politics during the mid-90s, so my thoughts aren't based in any solid reality of the situation during those times.

Not only is this a reminder of the fragility of life, but also of how fast time seems to go by as we get older. I hope Carl’s family is doing well, and I hope all the fans, heroes and villains from all corners of the globe, are keeping in good health and happiness.

Alcohol is an addictive product for some people but not everyone.
I wonder how addictive it is compared to non-legal drugs; it may kill 80,000 per year compared to 70,000 for heroin, but it is also way more widely consumed.

Alcohol has been normalized by society and is not held to the same standard as other drugs. How much sense that makes in terms of negative impacts to individuals and society I do not know.

But how black and white can we be about the matter? The sugar and fast food industries also sell products that are addictive, can cause disease and ruin lives.

And I readily consume them at any given opportunity.
But I'm not out there bashing people that eat at McDonald's or enjoy a Pepsi now and again.

If eating a cheeseburger led to a much higher probability of getting into a head on collision on the way home from a restaurant, I think society would have a different outlook on cheeseburgers. If we're really comparing the two, more people died of alcohol related incidents than of obesity last year. I don't know of anyone who has lost their home and family or who has killed themselves on the road because they were obese. But I do know far too many people who have destroyed themselves and others because of booze. Yes, binging on food can lead to disastrous health consequences, but it also doesn't put other people's lives at risk on the road, binging on food doesn't lead to 1 million+ acts of violence every year, there are no acts of sexual assault by people under the influence of a Dr. Pepper, etc....but yet all these things happen as a result of alcohol every day. And while society deems the effects of alcohol normal, I personally don't think all of those negative effects should be considered normal.

I'm not advocating we ban alcohol. I haven't bashed anyone for drinking alcohol. I'm just saying that I agree with Mike about the issue: alcohol has negative side effects for a lot of people, and it can lead to destruction of lives as the facts, statistics, and subjective evidence from nearly everyone's lives (be it people we know or know of) show.

I think that LoCash song is diametrically opposed to Mike's quotes (which I posted above) over the years where he is adamantly (and seemingly passionately) speaking out against the pitfalls of alcohol and how he has seen it destroy loved ones in his life. I guess most people see the LoCash song as a dumb party song, but the fact is it is advocating the use of alcohol - something Mike has spoken out against time and time again. Thus I find it hypocritical of him to have anything to do with the song.

As absolutely disgusting and indefensible as Mike's comments have been, I do feel that citing his involvement in "Beach Boys" by Locash is a stretch. George Jones was notorious for the destruction that alcohol addiction caused him, yet in 2001, he collaborated with Garth Brooks on "Beer Run (B-Double E-Double Are You In?)," a "feel good" song about drinking (and driving). This was just two years removed from songs like "Choices" and "Cold Hard Truth," that laid bare what overindulgence can do. And, as someone who not only is most definitely NOT a country music fan, and who also feels that alcohol is indisputably the most destructive drug known to man, I never once thought of Jones as a hypocrite for recording what amounted to an early proto-bro country, buddy drinking song.
I say this not to defend Mike or that horrendous song, but because, as a political scientist, reaches such as this can have a detrimental effect on valid arguments.

Thanks for your input and for explaining that perspective more.

I actually 100% agree with Mike about booze (his quotes above at least). And another point about how strongly I feel about my argument: I feel like a hypocrite when I buy a beer at a restaurant or bring wine/6-pack to a get-together - because I am then monetarily supporting an industry that is making an addictive product that has ruined millions of lives. So perhaps that can shed light on why I feel the way I do. I’m looking at Mike as a hypocrite the same way I look at myself when I support the industry. If there is a drug that is causing pain in the world, any amount of promotion or support of that drug is just going to bring more pain into the world (be it writing songs that promote its use, or by handing over my cash to the alcohol industry when buying a Guinness). That’s about as simple as I can state my case. Perhaps it’s illogical to most, but that’s the way I see it.

Don’t get me wrong, I do see your and Peadar’s point about my argument being a stretch (meaning from the perspective of societal norms today I can see why LoCash’s song is seen by some/most of you as harmless). I just don’t see it as harmless…I don’t see any drugs in any amount (be they alcohol, cigarettes, etc) as a positive thing for the world, so the promotion and support of alcohol just doesn’t seem like a positive thing to me.

Thanks again for writing out your perspective, I do get where you’re coming from, and hopefully I’ve explained myself well enough for y’all to see where I’m coming from (even if we don’t agree).

“It absolutely saved me... There are many ways to relax. Alcohol, marijuana, other drugs, but they all have side effects."
“It was heartbreaking to see my own family members destroying themselves through drink and drugs.”
“[TM] gives you a sort of high without having to resort to alcohol and drugs.”
“I was fortunate to learn mediation that kept me away from the drugs and alcohol. I used to drink hard liquor, but when I learned meditation I found it deeply relaxing and was able to relax through that way — not through alcohol or marijuana or anything like that. So if you're serious about music and about your life it's really good to pick up on habits that are positive and life supporting that are good for you…”
“Alcohol and marijuana and other drugs may be relaxing or invigorating or whatever, but you can get plenty relaxed through meditation without the negative side-effects…Bruce and Alan [Jardine] and myself didn't [indulge] and the Wilson brothers did. Tragically with Dennis [Wilson] it led to his early demise…”

- Mike Love

He lambasts Brian for drug use that occurred 40+ years ago (alluding that it led to Brian having the odd inability to use a telephone - talk about reaching too far), he talks constantly about how alcohol isn’t good for you (and points to how it led to his bandmate’s demise), how it was “heartbreaking” for him to see his bandmates destroy themselves with alcohol, then he promotes that very substance in a song. I think it’s fairly obvious how hypocritical that is, how backwards it is. Which is the point. As you yourself point out, Peadar, it’s a song to listen to while partying at spring break. After reading the above quotes by Mike Love, one would logically think that Mike Love would want nothing to do with this song (as it clearly promotes something he clearly objects to in countless interviews).

I highly doubt the kids at the spring break parties are listening to LoCash’s “Beach Boys” sitting in a circle lotus position doing transcendental meditation.

Tbf I've already picked apart your logic and again you're doing what I referred to in my last post.

Ok then this is going way over my head. I do not see anywhere where you picked apart my points (specifically the 1-4 points I made in my last post) - if you could point me to the post (perhaps I missed it) where you clearly laid out your argument I’d be grateful. Or if someone else can help explain this to me - because there is something I’m just not getting then.

As much as Mike can be a dick, I don't think any Wilson would have a problem with that crappy country party drinking song. No point looking for extra thing to bash Mike with, there's plenty already.

I don't think anyone is looking for anything extra to bash Mike with. Whether or not the Wilson's would think it's a fun party song, the point in bringing up the LoCash song is that Mike seems to bring up the pitfalls of drug use anytime he's asked a question even remotely relating to modern-day Brian. We're bringing up the LoCash song because it's insanely hypocritical to judge Brian for drug use 40 years ago whilst promoting a song in 2022 that promotes excessive drug use.

"promotes excessive drug use" - It's kind of a spring break bro country song. Stop making it something it's not.

70,000+ were killed by opioids last year in America. 80,000+ were killed by alcohol alone last year in America. Call the song whatever you want, but alcohol is a drug, and it's abuse does kill millions of people worldwide each year. Just because it's marketed and legal doesn't make it any less lethal than the drugs that Mike constantly crusades against (when it comes to Brian).

And with those statistics in mind, the repeated line "drink em down down drink em down" "Instead of Jack D, shoot some Cuervo. Mix up some rum" is promoting excessive drug use.

And to top it all off, it's just churlish to promote such a song when Dennis Wilson died due to his problems with alcohol.

Again, I'm not making up these statistics. I'm not "making something it's not". The lyrics are there, the facts are there.

You should consider a career in politics. You're reaching far too much. I agree alcohol is a dangerous drug but that song is still just a dumb ass party song.....nothing more and means nothing re:Dennis Wilson.

Dennis Wilson drank all day every day in his last years. Big difference than binge drinking at a party or whatever this song is talking about.

Look, I am really not trying to reach too far. If I am then I will concede my point. But logically in my mind, alcohol is a drug that leads to death for many people (whether or not your an alcoholic). I've had a good friend die because of drunk driving, I've seen it destroy families, I've seen more people die of the long-term effects of it. Billy shared his story above as well. And it's not really subjective when the numbers show 3 million people die of alcohol related incidents a year....be it drunk driving (which you don't need to be an alcoholic for), or fights that lead to deaths, or just alcoholism in general.

Again, my point is that if Mike is on some crusade to fight the evils of drugs, then he shouldn't be promoting/singing on a song that promotes the use of alcohol (a drug that you yourself admit is dangerous). Even if it is just a "dumb party song" - it is a song promoting the use of a drug that kills people.

I don't see the logic behind that being something akin to a political stunt. Sorry if you see it that way, and if you care to pick apart my logic I'd be happy to concede my point.

Sorry to hear you have lost someone. There are a hell of a lot of songs out there about drinking/drugs and partying to excess. Do we condemn them all or just Mike Love associated ones?

Tbf I've already picked apart your logic and again you're doing what I referred to in my last post. As is the nature of the internet, we can continue to post endlessly but tbh I've yet to see you concede a point on this board so.....

But you haven’t picked apart my logic. To break it down to its simplest, I am saying that:

1) alcohol is a bad drug (and I have provided statistics/examples of this, you yourself have called it a dangerous drug)
2) promoting the use of alcohol (being it in advertisements, music, movies) can lead people to drink alcohol - that is the nature of ads, influence, and yes, even dumb spring break party songs (alcohol ads in America even all come with safety warnings)….this song in particular is literally telling people to “drink ‘em down down drink ‘em down” (ie it is promoting that people drink - and technically binge drink (something not harmless, according to the NIH and verified statistics).
3) people who publicly fight against the use of street drugs should also fight against the use of alcohol, as statistically alcohol is one of the biggest killers of human life as far as drugs go.
4) thus, Mike Love shouldn’t be singing on songs that promote the use of the drug. A few years ago Mike Love talked about how heroin use took the love and harmony out of The Beach Boys. And yet here Mike is promoting a drug that kills more people than heroin each year. I find that to be hypocritical.

Reading through our conversation you haven’t picked apart any of those points, or any association between the those points. Thus far, if I gather correctly, your argument is that the LoCash song is a harmless party song, and because other mainstream songs promote excessive drug use means that we shouldn’t look down on Mike Love for singing on and promoting one of these songs. The former point you haven’t proved what makes the promotion of alcohol in a party song “harmless” (alcohol is a dangerous drug, according to you, so how is it’s promotion in any form “harmless”?). And your latter point isn’t a valid argument (the saying “two wrongs don’t make a right” comes to mind).

One point I’d like to make, if it has any bearing on how strongly I feel about this topic, is that I am currently under the impression that Brian Wilson needed to approve LoCash’s use of the “I Get Around” theme. I could totally be wrong about that (and someone please correct me if I’m wrong). But something that one of the members of LoCash said (it had to do with them being surprised by getting approval from The Beach Boys) made me think that Brian would’ve had to approve the song. Point being, I’m currently just as annoyed at Brian as I am at Mike for this song being associated with The Beach Boys.

As for me not conceding any points on this forum, a lot of people here have either schooled me on facts or opinions (such as when I used to think Mike was the sole reason for Smile’s downfall, or when HeyJude didn’t hold back when I made the moronic statement that George Harrison wasn’t a good guitar player)…when I’m I’m wrong, and when people come to me with facts and logic I will absolutely concede to their knowledge and well-reasoned arguments. My opinions are not infallible.

As much as Mike can be a dick, I don't think any Wilson would have a problem with that crappy country party drinking song. No point looking for extra thing to bash Mike with, there's plenty already.

I don't think anyone is looking for anything extra to bash Mike with. Whether or not the Wilson's would think it's a fun party song, the point in bringing up the LoCash song is that Mike seems to bring up the pitfalls of drug use anytime he's asked a question even remotely relating to modern-day Brian. We're bringing up the LoCash song because it's insanely hypocritical to judge Brian for drug use 40 years ago whilst promoting a song in 2022 that promotes excessive drug use.

"promotes excessive drug use" - It's kind of a spring break bro country song. Stop making it something it's not.

70,000+ were killed by opioids last year in America. 80,000+ were killed by alcohol alone last year in America. Call the song whatever you want, but alcohol is a drug, and it's abuse does kill millions of people worldwide each year. Just because it's marketed and legal doesn't make it any less lethal than the drugs that Mike constantly crusades against (when it comes to Brian).

And with those statistics in mind, the repeated line "drink em down down drink em down" "Instead of Jack D, shoot some Cuervo. Mix up some rum" is promoting excessive drug use.

And to top it all off, it's just churlish to promote such a song when Dennis Wilson died due to his problems with alcohol.

Again, I'm not making up these statistics. I'm not "making something it's not". The lyrics are there, the facts are there.

You should consider a career in politics. You're reaching far too much. I agree alcohol is a dangerous drug but that song is still just a dumb ass party song.....nothing more and means nothing re:Dennis Wilson.

Dennis Wilson drank all day every day in his last years. Big difference than binge drinking at a party or whatever this song is talking about.

Look, I am really not trying to reach too far. If I am then I will concede my point. But logically in my mind, alcohol is a drug that leads to death for many people (whether or not your an alcoholic). I've had a good friend die because of drunk driving, I've seen it destroy families, I've seen more people die of the long-term effects of it. Billy shared his story above as well. And it's not really subjective when the numbers show 3 million people die of alcohol related incidents a year....be it drunk driving (which you don't need to be an alcoholic for), or fights that lead to deaths, or just alcoholism in general.

Again, my point is that if Mike is on some crusade to fight the evils of drugs, then he shouldn't be promoting/singing on a song that promotes the use of alcohol (a drug that you yourself admit is dangerous). Even if it is just a "dumb party song" - it is a song promoting the use of a drug that kills people.

I don't see the logic behind that being something akin to a political stunt. Sorry if you see it that way, and if you care to pick apart my logic I'd be happy to concede my point.

As much as Mike can be a dick, I don't think any Wilson would have a problem with that crappy country party drinking song. No point looking for extra thing to bash Mike with, there's plenty already.

I don't think anyone is looking for anything extra to bash Mike with. Whether or not the Wilson's would think it's a fun party song, the point in bringing up the LoCash song is that Mike seems to bring up the pitfalls of drug use anytime he's asked a question even remotely relating to modern-day Brian. We're bringing up the LoCash song because it's insanely hypocritical to judge Brian for drug use 40 years ago whilst promoting a song in 2022 that promotes excessive drug use.

"promotes excessive drug use" - It's kind of a spring break bro country song. Stop making it something it's not.

70,000+ were killed by opioids last year in America. 80,000+ were killed by alcohol alone last year in America. Call the song whatever you want, but alcohol is a drug, and it's abuse does kill millions of people worldwide each year. Just because it's marketed and legal doesn't make it any less lethal than the drugs that Mike constantly crusades against (when it comes to Brian).

And with those statistics in mind, the repeated line "drink em down down drink em down" "Instead of Jack D, shoot some Cuervo. Mix up some rum" is promoting excessive drug use.

And to top it all off, it's just churlish to promote such a song when Dennis Wilson died due to his problems with alcohol.

Again, I'm not making up these statistics. I'm not "making something it's not". The lyrics are there, the facts are there.

As much as Mike can be a dick, I don't think any Wilson would have a problem with that crappy country party drinking song. No point looking for extra thing to bash Mike with, there's plenty already.

I don't think anyone is looking for anything extra to bash Mike with. Whether or not the Wilson's would think it's a fun party song, the point in bringing up the LoCash song is that Mike seems to bring up the pitfalls of drug use anytime he's asked a question even remotely relating to modern-day Brian. We're bringing up the LoCash song because it's insanely hypocritical to judge Brian for drug use 40 years ago whilst promoting a song in 2022 that promotes excessive drug use.

Billy, that’s quite a political statement for someone not getting political.  To classify all conservatives the way you did is pretty biased.  I’m conservative but don’t support Mike Love or racism or ridiculing those with challenges, or those different than me.  I think Mike is a POS and have personal reasons for feeling that way. 

Should’ve clarified the more extreme right , but in all fairness I was pretty steamed having dealt with that type of garbage in person yesterday, because some freaking idiot still thinks the civil rights movement hadn’t happened , and that my interracial marriage is an abomination 🙄. I wish more people where I live were like you. Unfortunately, nothing will ever change here and barring a minor miracle I won’t live long enough to move. Then I read that garbage by Lonely Dickface  and I lost it.

I have truly known racists from both parties. And I've also known very upstanding/moral people from both parties. All the division that has arisen from the recent political culture is just so sad - people from both sides can get really nasty about people they don't agree with, especially making generalizations that only stoke the fires of division. There is a great sermon by Martin Luther King jr that I implore everyone to read, it's called "A Tough Mind and a Tender Heart" (it's from his Strength To Love book), and it shows just how important it is to understand those who are ignorant and how to fight that ignorance not with hate but with love and intelligence. It's a sermon that I think people from both sides of the aisle could learn so much from. It's something I read from time to time to keep things in perspective. And it's honestly a viewpoint I should probably carry over to my rather harsh/negative outlook on Mike Love.

Think some folks are going just a tad overboard with Mike's admittedly glib comments.  Even if Brian stopped using heavy drugs 40 years ago that doesn't mean they didn't have some kind of permanent effect on his psyche or even physically.  At least that's how I took those comments.  The truth is there were a number of factors that affected Brian over the years besides drugs including mental illness and an abusive, narcissistic therapist among other things.  But yeah, even if Mike's comments could be perceived as insensitive, he's technically not exactly incorrect in his assessment.  And Mike has always been kind of an anti-drug guy anyway.  His comments on Brian remain consistent to that. 

I mean, I don't think anyone is wrong in stating that drugs had an effect on Brian. Brian has stated this himself, probably on many occasions.

The part that is irritating to people is that Mike brings it up nearly every time he is asked about Brian. I mean, the response to "Have you talked to Brian recently?" shouldn't elicit some judgmental anti-drug diatribe from a guy who spent all summer promoting a song that celebrates binge drinking. It's hypocritical, it is crass, and he is downright insulting when he says that Brian is "not capable of doing much"... I don't know what Brian's usual life is like, but I'd imagine it's a bit more bustling than your average 80 year old...And more to the point, Mike complains about not seeing Brian, not talking to Brian, so how would Mike even know what Brian is like in his day-to-day?

With all that in mind I don't think anyone went overboard in their criticism. Again, if Mike were on some crusade to fight drug abuse, he shouldn't be singing on songs promoting binge drinking (which causes 3 million deaths per year). But that just goes to show how full of it he is: it's not about promoting the evils of substance abuse, it's about getting one more public & useless jab in at Brian.

Mike is an old zebra, he's not going to change his stripes this late in life.  I don't know why some of us expect him to.

Probably due to all the praise he has given TM for the last 40+ years. Two of of the top three marketed benefits of TM are peace of mind and mental clarity - both of which seem to be completely nonexistent for Mike when he talks about modern-day Brian. And I've heard the line "just imagine Mike without TM" but how much truth is there in that? How much worse can it get than suing your cousin and his family for millions over a picture on a freebie CD? How much worse could it get than calling your cousin out publicly for bad things he did FORTY years ago? Regarding his relationship with Brian, Mike's got nowhere to go but up, and so I think it's fair for any decent person to hope and expect him to change for the better.

LS, in this thread you've said things like "you guys would be even more enraged" or "you guys would jump all over him for that, too" - I'm really curious, from your perspective, at what point is it acceptable to call out Mike's behavior?

Brian is an elderly man diagnosed with schizo-affective and manic depressive disorder; and his own cousin, in the last ten years, has negatively and publicly called out Brian's singing ability, Brian's weight, Brian's looks, Brian's history with substance abuse, Brian's supposed inability to do everyday tasks, Brian's music, Brian's wife, Brian's current prescription drug regimen.

Many fans that care about Brian do get logically enraged when they read this stuff in articles. What baffles me is that every time fans get enraged by these statements, you, Kreen, and the peanut gallery elsewhere rush to defend Mike with either one-liner drive-by sarcastic jabs, or these arguments that aren't based in any sort of reality. It's like if some Brian fans were to defend every last recorded second of Brian's career - it's not logical because there are some duds. Likewise, it's just not logical to defend every last word Mike says because sometimes he says things that are downright false or just plain crass.

For someone who has praised TM and positivity for over 50 years, Mike sure gives a negative interview. ☹️

Even though he repeatedly praised Brian as a vocal arranger in that interview, and a great collaborator. Even though he said Carl sang Good Vibrations beautifully. If I hadn't listened to the interview myself, I would have thought - going by the response here - that Mike spent 15 minutes saying "Carl smoked himself to death, Dennis drank himself to death, and Brian is basically comatose today because of all the drugs he did". Actually, I think if Mike were to really let loose on how he feels about working with Brian today, you guys would be even more enraged.
I'm reminded of a comment Carl made about Brian back in 1981: "he doesn't hurt anybody, but he likes to hide a lot". That's why he has people around him to handle the stuff he doesn't like doing.
Or maybe I got that quote wrong; maybe it was "he doesn't hide anybody, but he likes to hurt a lot"  

Mike is saying that Brian is "not capable of doing much" - gee, when I'm around 80 years old I could only hope to have as much energy as Brian has had (touring, recording, etc). And at any rate, this doesn't take away from the fact that Mike is asked "have you talked to Brian recently" and Mike's response is "No, he's not capable of doing much." Straight up implying that Brian burned his brains out on drugs so badly that he can't do something as simple as use a telephone or have a conversation.

I guess I'm failing to see the connection between that ridiculous, crass interview answer (that implies Brian has the mental capacity of a 2 year old) and Carl's comment about Brian's tendency to hide back in the day.

I know there are a certain minority who will reach for unfathomable depths attempting to defend Mike's every word, but goodness, just please look at the question/answer and ask yourself if that is a rational response to "have you talked to Brian lately?"

Because whenever I'm asked by family if I've talked to a relative recently, I don't automatically bring up embarrassing/negative stuff that happened to them 40 years prior.

I personally really hope to see a redemption story when it comes to The Beach Boys.

Which is why I’m probably a bit too optimistic when it comes to Mike’s behavior - as in, I was really leaning towards the idea that Mike had had a change of heart the last couple years, turning a new leaf. And while evidence of a fizzled 60th reunion kinda made it clear that there is still some tension/problems relating to Brian and Mike’s relationship, I still kept some hope that Mike was done with the public berating of his cousin at least.

But wow, this interview tossed all those hopes into the abandoned Club Kokomo dumpster (where they belonged all along).

While some fans have claimed that Brianistas “need a villain” and Mike is our random target, I find this accusation to be completely lacking any logic: Do Beatles fans go out of their way to randomly find a villain in their favorite band? Do Zeppelin fans go out of their way to vilify a member of their favorite band? NO. Mike’s “villain” label is not something that was randomly assigned by us fans. Rather, Mike’s behavior (be it the litigious behavior, the ego behavior, or the rude behavior) is why Mike is vilified. And it’s sad that it is this way.

I’d love to click on a Beach Boys interview and not read about the litigious history, the infighting, etc. I’d much rather, one day, read about how the band came back together, forgave all the wrongdoings, and just decided to live the rest of their days in peace and harmony.

I hope this happens, because our band needs a real “happily ever after” ending. But sadly, with each passing year, it seems like this is just never going to happen.

Quote:

***With all their success, Dori wondered, what’s the relationship now between Love and Brian Wilson? Do the two men talk?

“No,” Love said. “He hurt himself so badly with drugs that he’s not capable of doing much. He goes out and sometimes tours, but recently canceled all his future dates. It’s sad, but between the heroin, LSD, and cocaine – they had an effect.

“But if it was just he and I at a piano?” Love contemplated. “We love each other and experienced such great success. If it was just he and I at the piano? The DNA just kicks in, but the incursion of drugs came in, and that screwed things up quite a bit.”***


This is so ridiculous and over the top it's almost not worth a reply. Almost. The fact that we're reminded regularly of how "at peace" Mike is and has been through meditation and TM, how much he loves touring and playing live concerts for his fans, and how he feels he's carrying the torch for the Beach Boys through his activities leads this same contented, happy, wealthy man to once again make public statements as absurd as this one?

Mike for years - particularly in the wake of C50 ending - has been saying the same things. And they're as wrong now as they were in the past. He holds this image of him and Brian at a piano knocking out the hits like it was 1963 as some sort of Shangri-La, idealistic paradise he thinks can be recaptured. It borders on delusion. And maybe Mike doesn't know this, but Brian has been "clean" of those drugs for at least 40 years and actively touring and making music. It's just petty, mean-spirited talk from a guy who can't keep his mouth shut and has to belittle others to boost his own ego and profile.

In this case, would we consider what he said a lie? "Not capable of doing much" is pretty strong and very definitive...and if we look back at Brian's musical resume over the last 25 years, and his touring schedules, it pretty much shows Mike is as full of sh*t now as he was when he filed that lawsuit around 2005 saying all Brian did after 1967 was stay in bed and collect royalty checks.

There's something going on here, beyond just petty word wars. I'd think someone, maybe his wife-and-manager or some historian or writer somewhere, would tell Mike to shut the f*** up, this stuff isn't helping your image, it's not helping to put fans' asses in the seats at the venues he's playing, and overall it comes off as pathetic.

Why the guy can't just celebrate what he accomplished and all the people, tens of millions, he's made happy through the years with his music and lyrics is something I guess we'll never understand. I thought the days of Mike saying sh*t like this were over, but I guess he's still holding onto whatever hate or animosity he felt for decades.

Happy 60th, Beach Boys! 

You perfectly summed up my thoughts here. But I'd also like to add a few thoughts:

1. "this stuff isn't helping your image" - I really thought Mike got this memo a couple years ago, because it has been a couple years (I think) since this type of talk has come from him. It seemed clear to me that Mike was either told to stop, or he grew up and decided to not take potshots at his cousin anymore. But clearly there is something there gnawing away at Mike, something on the inside of him that he needs to release every now and then. It's like he can't not say something negative about his cousin - clearly there is something in him that is bugging him about Brian or Melinda.

2. "In this case, would we consider what he said a lie? "Not capable of doing much" is pretty strong and very definitive...and if we look back at Brian's musical resume over the last 25 years, and his touring schedules, it pretty much shows Mike is as full of sh*t now as he was when he filed that lawsuit around 2005 saying all Brian did after 1967 was stay in bed and collect royalty checks." This is what I don't get about people who defend Mike to their dying breath - how do you account for this overly blatant deceit?

And more to that point, Mike is perpetuating the myth that Brian is a vegetable - someone who is incapable of doing anything on his own. I will never forget Casey Hardmeyer's lambasting of Brian's life/career in his NPP review. It was disgusting to read, and yet I almost don't blame people for believing that crap because people like Mike continue to push the lie.

I go from being enraged by Mike's words to feeling sadness - I am enraged because it is a complete lie that Brian isn't capable of doing much. Yet I am also saddened that Mike can not only privately hold these beliefs but he shares them publicly to the world...I feel bad for both the world who has to hear this drivel and for Mike for actually believing it.

Brian has had an INCREDIBLE redemption story, and yet the only thing Mike focusses on are Brian's pitfalls - the negative stuff. Mike seems to never acknowledge that Brian got away from drugs, that he started making music again, that he toured a heck of a lot on his own. Mike solely focusses on "Brian's gained weight" or "Brian used street drugs" or "Brian now uses prescription drugs" and he rarely (if ever) praises Brian for the past couple of decades of success.

If I had a family member who FORTY years ago struggled with addiction, and then he turned his life around and he was living good ever since, would there be any logical reason for me to continuously bring up my their drug use? What a great family reunion that would be:

You: "Hey Rab, have you talked with Uncle Jim lately?"
Rab: "No, he did drugs 40 years ago and he doesn't do much now, so we don't talk."
You: "Yeah but Uncle Jim has been sober for 40 years and he has accomplished a lot since then."
Rab: "Yeah but he did drugs 40 years ago and hasn't been the same since."
You: "I mean, Uncle Jim is 80 years old with schizophrenia and depression issues, so yeah he's not as spry as he used to be, but he has overcome a lot and has been very successful since turning his life around."
Rab: "Yeah but he did drugs 40 years ago."

IT MAKES NO LOGICAL SENSE. Nevermind thinking these thoughts privately, I do not understand how you could publicly talk about someone like this and sleep well at night. It is so foreign to my way of thinking, and clearly most people.

I have to clarify a thing about my insistence on "don't **** with the formula". I use it as a metaphor.
Yes, I know that if you want to analyse the reasons for the demise of the Paley Sessions, there are a lot. I am not so naive or uninformed as to believe there was only reason, or a couple of them.
But in another sense, all those reasons coalesce into a giant metaphorical "don't **** with the formula, Brian".

I think any rational fan saw what you were saying. I'm glad Kreen wrote the "But I thought nobody tells Brian Wilson what to do?" because it perfectly showcases the ignorance of a small swath of the fanbase that loves to needle anyone who has any sympathy/liking/preference for the Brian camp. Acting like a tool, not participating in any rational discourse when your opinion/post is countered shows exactly why there is such a divide among the fandom...fortunately I think most sane fans see how the petulant trolling isn't winning anyone over to that side.

I think that the attitude a sadly non-negligible section of the BB "fandom" keeps regarding Brian is one of the most shameful examples of "ableism" ever. It's absurd, crazy, and it has gone on for too, far too long. Tom Hardy is the only answer they deserve. "That's bait."

It goes beyond that; I think the mocking stems from the fact they for whatever reason don’t like Brian very much, the way some feel towards Mike, or the way I feel about Billie Eilish. These are the types of people who likely grew up as bullies and see Brian’s issues as a sign of weakness. I just roll my eyes and scroll , hoping a rule infringement would happen so the inane comments would stop. Til then, we’ll just keep playing the world’s lamest game of internet chicken.

There are people who don't like Brian very much? I thought everybody loved Brian. He's a very lovable guy. Someone you just want to give a big bear hug and tell him it's gonna be alright.
I think the Wilson Paley sessions are held in such high regard is - in some quarters - they are perceived as being Brian doing what Brian wanted to do, compared with IJWMFTT (Don Was does a film about Brian and wants him to re-record some songs to be used in the film); OCA - Brian singing on VDP's album because - in VDP's words "I can't stand the sound of my own voice"); Imagination - Brian being pushed into an AC sound by Melinda and Joe Thomas; and on and on. There always has to be someone else pushing Brian to do something, instead of Brian just doing what he wants to do.
But Brian in 2022 is a much different story than Brian in 1990-whatever.

I think it's more that people don't like Brian's camp, not necessarily Brian. And I think a lot of the animosity stems from the years that Mike received backlash for this or that, and so any opportunity that arises to needle/prod Brian fans does not go to waste (as Kreen's comment above perfectly exemplifies)....and I think this because I notice that most of this animosity comes from people who defend Mike's camp incessantly.

And those of us who do sympathize/support Brian's camp are the targets of this animosity. So yeah, everyone seems to love Brian, but that doesn't stop some fans from disrespecting his wife, disrespecting his children, disrespecting his band, disrespecting his own stated intentions.

So while some people claim to love Brian, they sure don't show evidence of this when they make flippant/sarcastic comments regarding his free will, or regarding the motivations behind certain albums. The people who have this constant hate towards anything associated with Brian's management seem to forget that Brian's world is not black and white. Brian is a very complicated/complex person so expecting his life and his career to be uncomplicated is astoundingly ignorant. And I'm not saying we can't discuss this stuff - I do not think for a second that Brian's career post-Landy has been all sunshine and rainbows (so there is much to discuss), but these smartass sarcastic pot-shot comments that pepper these discussions aren't adding anything remotely constructive to the conversation.   

I have to clarify a thing about my insistence on "don't **** with the formula". I use it as a metaphor.
Yes, I know that if you want to analyse the reasons for the demise of the Paley Sessions, there are a lot. I am not so naive or uninformed as to believe there was only reason, or a couple of them.
But in another sense, all those reasons coalesce into a giant metaphorical "don't **** with the formula, Brian".

I think any rational fan saw what you were saying. I'm glad Kreen wrote the "But I thought nobody tells Brian Wilson what to do?" because it perfectly showcases the ignorance of a small swath of the fanbase that loves to needle anyone who has any sympathy/liking/preference for the Brian camp. Acting like a tool, not participating in any rational discourse when your opinion/post is countered shows exactly why there is such a divide among the fandom...fortunately I think most sane fans see how the petulant trolling isn't winning anyone over to that side.

It struck me over the past few days, after seeing some of the "highlights" and musical performances from the VMA Awards (supposedly a showcase of the best, hottest, biggest selling, most trendy music of our present time...) how absurd it is to worry about whether a ten year old Beach Boys album should have an asterisk next to it for chart position, or how reaching #3 on that Billboard chart is upsetting to some. Considering the supposed "talent" on display, and the songs heard on that awards show...holy sh*t that's what should be causing grief and debate instead of asterisks and chart positions. And that's the kind of music and the artists we're being programmed to hear and, what else, respect? Sad commentary on modern pop music.

Music is a dumpster fire these days. And it's not just the themes - sex and drugs have always been themes in rock-n-roll since the 60s? But in the modern era there is no talent to be had to write, produce, record these "songs"...most of which you can't even understand the "lyrics", and every pop backing track nowadays sounds like a copy/paste from late-90s Brittney Spears songs...and those pop tunes are probably the best that music has to offer, don't even get me started on "rap" these days.

So yeah, completely agree, if The Beach Boys showed up on the charts we should be grateful that they cast a ray of light onto the music world, even if but for a short period of time.

I feel for those who are going through something internally/mentally. It’s cliche, but I hope that one day we can all just enjoy this amazing music and not get caught up in the drama of it all (I’m 100% guilty of this). I think one day, when all the band has sadly passed, we’ll look back and realize how petty all this was/is.

Why wait until the band has passed?

Honestly? Because nobody on either end of the factions wants to make that first move.

I really don't think this is the case. It's more of a time issue. If there was a mood/atmosphere of forgive/forget in any Beach Boys fan-faction I would agree with you. But look at the hate that was pummeled onto Howie - that kind of vitriol is still raging in fans. And the vitriol that "counters" that vitriol is still raging in fans. A first move can't be made if people are still getting enraged by a podcast interview, if fans are still lying about other fans, and if people are trying to fight all of this insolence with more insolence (guilty as charged).

But I think in 30 years when LoCash's song hasn't destroyed the brand*, when 10 stereo mixes that Mark and Alan worked on haven't destroyed the reputation of the band, and when people begin to realize how futile all the feuds were, then every old fan will kinda wish that all those arguments and feuds never happened.

I mean, I currently realize how petty all of this stuff is, but yet I will defend someone if they are being lied about. I will defend someone if someone is calling for them to lose their job over a stereo mix. You can't ignore that type of lunacy.

*Also want to edit my point about the LoCash song: while I personally don't think it will destroy the reputation of the band, I find it completely absurd that The Beach Boys would align themselves with a song that glorifies binge drinking when most of the members of the band have dealt with substance abuse (and one has died from it). I find it completely crass and repulsive, but not surprising given what some people in the band will do to get even 20 seconds in the spotlight.

Thanks, Zenobi.

And getting back to your original post (didn't mean to hijack the thread): I think you're absolutely right about The Beach Boys. There is something there, that "space" in which there is so much creativity, so much emotion and beauty, that it really becomes this place or space (and it's the majority of the catalog). It's not just limited to track listing or playlists, but to hear vocals-only tracks, or the stack-o-tracks, some of Brian's demos (Awake, Still I Dream of It) can be absolutely heavenly.

When I listen to 'Til I Die' I can see the waves, I can see the floating leaf, I can see the tumbling rock...and it's not just the lyrics, but it's the production that sends me to that chaotic ocean, or floating in the sky. I know that sounds ridiculous and corny, but it's really unexplainable and that's the best way I can explain it.

Perhaps the couple other examples I can think of are 'Across The Universe' and 'Penny Lane' by the Beatles - those songs take me somewhere because there's an authenticity in both the production and the lyrics. But The Beach Boys seem to have that with most of their work and not just a couple songs. And perhaps that is all subjective.

One thing I love about The Beach Boys is that they weren't usually afraid to go against the grain, or try something completely new...whether its releasing a Bossa nova tune, or some synth music - yet it all usually had that ethereal quality to it - 'Busy Doin Nothin' takes me right to the sunny/breezy day Brian is writing about, 'The Night Was So Young' takes me to a still evening. And yet those songs are so different both production and lyrically.

Perhaps it's all tied together with "harmony" (not just vocal harmony, but a dedicated harmony of the instruments or themes).

It's great, Rab, but I have an inkling your original was even better...
Is Heroes and Villains at the start still your original?

I didn't listen to all of his H&V mix, but he added in these drums/handclaps over much of my mix that (imo) kinda take away from the song underneath. I think he also took out my section with some of Brian and a friend talking in Spanish (from his home tape-recorder back in high school, practicing Spanish).

Listening to a couple of Jaywalker6's tracks now - very cool! Notice he's got quite a bit of Beatles mashed up tunes...In my original mix of LOVE I mashed together the vocals from The Beatles' 'Hello, Goodbye' with the instrumental of 'Please Let Me Wonder' - it honestly turned out pretty decent.
_____

I uploaded my original mix today here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsUZaFEv6aA

Man, actually they changed a lot about my original - half the songs seem to not be mine. I think I'm going to try and upload my original soon. Its funny because I first tried uploading it to YouTube when I first made it and it was rejected due to copyright, but this person did it just fine!

Zenobi,

Not sure if you were around for this thread, but what you write is kinda why I created this mix (this link is timestamped to a particular track in the mix that is my favorite collage of Beach Boys tracks):

https://youtu.be/pcsPPBR11zY?t=708

Here is the original thread for it (if you like it and want to read about the making of it): http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23016.0.html

Also, the entire YouTube mix that is linked is not my original - but much of it is in tact from my original. Another fan uploaded my work to YouTube and I think did some changes here and there (which is what that YouTube link is). Honestly I appreciate that they uploaded it to keep the mix alive, but I do wish they hadn't added to my work. It took me a long time to create it and I really felt my original mix was perfect (or as perfect as I could get it). But that being said, I also realize that I took original/perfect work of The Beach Boys and morphed it into something different, so I can't really complain.

I don't know what happened to my original on Vimeo, but it's not there anymore so this YouTube version is all that remains online of this mix (that I'm aware of)/

Regardless, this is a mix that took me a long time to make, and it combines all elements of different Beach Boys songs to create unique tracks. Tonight I'm looking at the comments on that YouTube video and feel very blessed that people really like the mix. I didn't know it was that appreciated among fans.