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645651 Posts in 25822 Topics by 3676 Members - Latest Member: as1972 April 23, 2019, 11:25:03 PM
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26  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Songs That Should’ve Been Hits on: March 22, 2019, 12:27:47 PM
I think Funky Pretty should have been on side A of their second single for Holland. Give the 45 some cosmic artwork to go along with it. I think that song is much like 'Good Vibrations' in how timeless it sounds.
27  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike working on yet another new album on: March 21, 2019, 05:09:58 PM
I actually dig quite a few songs from the Philharmonic album - I wish some wouldn't completely brush it off because Sloop John B and In My Room are incredible, even if most of the rest of those songs aren't the best.

Unfortunately I don't think I can get past the autotune - it is just laid on so thick. Hopefully Mike eases off of it for any future recordings.
28  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike working on yet another new album on: March 21, 2019, 02:24:59 PM
The point I'm trying to make is if the music is all about positivity and love, maybe we should try to embrace that too.

I'm not saying we should live in a fantasy world where we pretend everything they do is absolutely perfect, but we maybe need to keep a "Cool Head and a Warm Heart"

At the same time, OSD and Pretty Funky offered their opinions solely about Mike's music. Were they harsh opinions? Perhaps they were. But they could have been ignored. Again, it was the people defending Mike who spiraled this thread towards Mike's personal life...OSD and Pretty Funky (and others who negatively commented on his music) were basing their opinions on Mike's music itself.

If we're trying to bring positivity to the forum, perhaps we should sometimes ignore the opinions we find offensive. And instead of questioning the motives of those harsh opinions in every thread, just accept that Mike has pissed off a lot of people (and the people pissed off have a pretty good case for being pissed off). And when it comes to Mike's music, people probably really dislike the music because they really do find it unlistenable and not because people just dislike Mike personally.
____

Not to go too off-topic, but the C50 Live album is a complete disaster for those who wanted a real sounding "document" of the reunion tour. If you listen to the Chiba concert, it sounds friggin incredible and I don't think I've heard one trace of auto-tune on it. Joe Thomas decided to take some really good concert tapes, and completely destroy any heart and soul they had. And this is how I feel when Mike uses this "effect" constantly. He probably has a solid base of song somewhere in his recordings, but you'd never know it because your ear can't wrap itself around how his voice electronically gyrates like he were singing through Peter Frampton's guitar-vocoder being amplified by an original Gameboy speaker.

Imagine if Johnny Cash used autotune for his American series. They would have never ever become the classics they have become. They would have been laughed at and forgotten. And how quickly did we, some of the most ardent fans of the Beach Boys, completely lose interest in Mike's recent recordings? There are like 2 people on any of the forums who get excited about his music anymore.

Again, I'm beyond glad that Mike has been recording, but if he wants to sell some records (and have people consistently listen to his music), he needs to go the Johnny Cash route - perhaps the same is true for Brian too. People like the real. They don't like the fake. And auto-tuning your voice when you're in your 70s is about as fake as it gets.
29  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike working on yet another new album on: March 21, 2019, 06:05:53 AM
Nate, I totally respect your opinion, so I personally am not going to devolve this thread into an argument. And I completely concur that Mike is human and humans make mistakes. Just like Mike is imperfect so are the members of this forum. So when we should be forgiving, sometimes we hold onto anger because of how much others have negatively affected us and those we care about. Many here really care about Brian, some of us see him as an imperfect but brilliant person, and some here see Mike as a great lyricist but also a bully (up until just a couple years ago was still making nasty comments about Brian/family in the media).

Just like you ask others to put themselves in Mike’s shoes, put yourself in the shoes of OSD who grew up with this band from the start and, from his perspective, watched the band crumble to pieces in part because of Mike. Put yourself in the shoes of Melinda who has to read about Mike saying she’s like Landy part 2 who controls Brian with drugs. Put yourself in the shoes of Brian’s hopeful business partners who one day received a letter they were being sued over a pointless freeby CD (and the worry and anxiety that must’ve caused those people for weeks/months/years). The shoe thing goes both ways (whether for Brian or Mike, Melinda or Jacquelyne, right down to all of us fans).

I would like to respond to Wata here: OSD, Pretty Funky’s posts were solely an opinion about Mike’s music. Whereas Mustomax, Senator, and Nate initially brought up the Brianistas and Mike being supposedly hated on because he’s Mike. This was solely an on topic music thread until those defending Mike brought up non-music topics (Brianistas, Mike being a douche, etc).

Nate, I completely respect why you feel the way you do. And I appreciate that you’re willing to explain in detail your thoughts. I’m sure others will respond to your thoughts on Mike’s touring and when Brian effectively no longer had control, I will steer clear of all that.
_____

As for Mike’s music. Frankly, I would hope the guys would get together to make a “That’s Why God Made The Radio” boxset. I think TWGMTR is the most perfect last album for this band, so I kinda don’t want them to get back together in the studio to make a totally different final album. But I would love for them to polish up the songs that weren’t released, to finish up the life suite and release it on its own disc. For one disc to be made up of post-TWGMTR recordings - for Mike to contribute a couple of his own songs for Brian to sing on. And for Brian to have Mike sing on some new Brian songs. For another disc to be demos, piano recordings, a cappella versions, backing tracks, etc.. and finally make a small EP of new recordings as a short and sweet new mini-album.

That is what I hope would happen with Mike’s music. As I know that’s probably impossible, I do hope that Mike just does what he feels happiest doing. If he wants to sell more records, I would recommend that he lay off the auto tune, and perhaps don’t rely on musical acts like Hanson or Mark McGrath.
30  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike working on yet another new album on: March 20, 2019, 06:30:03 PM
#
thatjacob,

That's exactly what I'm saying! Mike Love and Sam Hollander's collaborations might be the freshest sounding solo music Mike has ever made. Hollander is certainly a qualified producer with a plethora of hits, so I can only assume that he'll push Mike to make something special, like the two tracks on the Christmas record.

I used to float between what us Smiley Smilers would call a "Brianista" and "Love Apologist"... The older I get, I realize these men were just normal people too. Everyone does shitty things in their life. Mike's happened to be documented. None of The BBs are perfect people, I don't understand why some people on here talk about Mike like he's the devil.... I mean, he's the lead singer and one of the principal lyricists of our favorite band, yet half of the people on here seem to be literally angered by idea of him releasing no music. Mike has done bad things. Brian has done bad things. Dennis has done bad things. Let's just enjoy the music!

And people talk about UTL like Imagination never happened... LOL Both Brian and Mike have been victims of weak production.

Personally, I can't wait for the new record. Who's to say Mike doesn't have another "All I Wanna Do" or "Warmth Of The Sun" in him? If Brian can still arrange beautiful harmonies, I'm sure Mike could still pen some great songs.

It seems like some people on here would rather have no new Mike Love music again, than have albums released and there being a chance of a really solid song or two.

A couple points aimed a few posts made in this thread:

1. I think fans of Mike Love's recent output try way too hard to sell his music. Which may explain why people attempt to swing the pendulum farther away in the opposite direction. After reading above how "Celestial Celebration" is one of the better tracks from the Christmas album, I checked it out last night. I wasn't even going to comment on what I thought, but after reading the above post, I do want to interject some reality in case someone gets swayed to buy this based on the glowing reviews. If CC is one of the better tracks on the Christmas album then I can't even imagine how the rest of the album sounds. CC is appallingly littered with autotune. It's somehow as bad, if not worse, than the C50 Live album - in fact, much of Mike's recent output sounds like Mike stole every last piece of Joe Thomas' autotune contraptions, put every dial on "max", and proceeded to record. And the fact that it's a slight handful of people who adamantly push this music, it's kinda odd to the rest of us.

I'm beyond grateful that Mike is recording now, it's giving him something to do other than ramble about Brian's prescription meds - he was starting to sound like Prince talking about chemtrails for a while there. So I'm all for him hitting the studio, but I think a lot of us don't get the adulation for his work. And the comparison between UTL and Imagination? There is a gulf of difference between the two, in songwriting and production - as in, Brian almost sounds like he's in his 20s on 'Sherry She Needs Me', among other moments of really solid recording - where that kind of magic is sorely missing on any of Mike's recent solo outputs.

2. People angered by Mike Love: Lets say a family member sues you for millions of dollars, Nate, and in that lawsuit basically rips to shreds any work you did for 3-4 decades...claiming all you did was lay around in bed collecting checks and doing drugs. That is exactly what Mike did to Brian just over a decade ago. The list goes on, quite frankly given how many times it has been discussed here, I’m surprised that a handful of posters forget why exactly Mike Love isn’t looked on too highly amongst some fans. And again, I think the adulation Mike receives on these forums by some fans irks those who hold these rather logical opinions about the man.

Much like you Nate, I have shifted my views a bit in recent years. Mike has definitely become more chill these last few years. Having lived a decade since my first major dive into the Beach Boys world, I too have realized that people mess up in life. It makes me more sympathetic and forgiving because of this. I mess up, Mike messes up. The odd thing is though: those of us who mess up usually ADMIT we mess up. When has Mike ever apologized for the way he talks about Brian in the media? When has he ever publicly apologized to Brian for suing Brian’s wife, friends, and business partners over a silly picture on a FREEBY CD? When has he ever publicly acknowledged his 2005 lawsuit flat out lied about Brian? This is exactly the reason why there is a lot of anger directed toward the man.

I can still look past all this and appreciate all the good things that Mike has contributed to the world and to the music of the Beach Boys. But I also wish that when some fans express annoyance/anger at Mike that others wouldn't be surprised that those emotions are grounded in reality.
31  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Shortenin' Bread: are earlier versions online? on: March 20, 2019, 12:03:24 PM
28:16 of mind-numbing Shortnin' Bread bliss:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRB4zL6Myko

How does this only have 900 some views? This is a masterpiece.

That first track was one of my most played Beach Boys tunes for a while. I don't know, it's nuts, but I think Brian was onto something with obsessing over this tune.
32  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Ambient Music--Mood before Melody on: March 20, 2019, 12:00:42 PM
Sketches of Spain is Miles Davis right? I love that album.

Speaking of Moby, he did a great tune that I remember from years back called "ISS" which is a real ambient trip.

Are you subscribed to a music streaming service?
33  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: Ambient Music--Mood before Melody on: March 20, 2019, 09:24:37 AM
Great topic, JK!

I have been really liking Brian Eno's ambient music the last few years...one of his recent albums (I think it was called "Big Ship" or something) has been played quite a few times by me since release. I quickly sampled Phaedra and really liked it, I need to give it a closer listen today if I can.

Looking forward to contributing and keeping up with this topic.
34  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2019 Tour Thread on: March 19, 2019, 12:31:09 PM
Why do so many people on this board pretend that Brian live is good? This guy shouldn't be out on tour-the video's I've seen are really of a guy who seems almost forced to be participating in a show...

So you're basing your opinion of these shows on tinny sounding videos made by a microphone/camera as small as a grain of rice, which is then uploaded in a lossy format to youtube, and probably listened to on speakers the size of two grains of rice on your phone?

In person these shows are phenomenal...his backing band helps immensely even when Brian isn't on point for a few songs. Is Brian the 23 year old kid we hear on the records? Heck no, and he hasn't been since he was 23. His voice has changed every year of his existence, it's been ravaged by years of smoking and drug use, and he is now 76 yet still out there putting on a show. We're beyond lucky we can still see him perform, and I think most fans know what they're getting into when they buy tickets.
35  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: And Your Dream Comes True (Arranged for 2 Guitars) on: March 19, 2019, 12:15:28 PM
Mike, thanks so much for making these. I hope you don't mind, but in addition to watching these on youtube I have downloaded them and added them to my iTunes to listen on my phone. These are by far my favorite covers of Beach Boys music so I kinda had to snag them to listen to outside of Youtube when I'm not on my computer.

I don't know how you get all these harmonies on just two guitars but it is beyond impressive. Thanks again!
36  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Toy Story 4 trailer is out (yes, this is on-topic) on: March 19, 2019, 12:08:52 PM
This makes me so happy to see. Thanks for sharing! I can't wait to see this Cheesy
37  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension Release Thread on: January 15, 2019, 01:59:52 PM

Thanks Terry!

Quote
And the track “Oh Yeah” — what’s that about?
Linett: My understanding is that the Beach Boys were on tour — I think they just played the Fillmore East in New York — and because there was this sort of mad scramble to finish up the new album, they’d taken their tapes with them and were working on them every chance they got. I guess they did some work at Capitol Studios in New York, and one of the band members happened upon this kid on the street who was doing this kind of rap thing, and they thought, “Oh, man, this is great, we should get him on tape.” They brought him into the studio, gathered the guys around the mic, and had him lay it down. All it says on the tape box is “Oh Yeah.” No indication as to who he is.

That is such a cool story. Imagine being this kid throwing out some words on the street and next you're in a recording studio with one of America's most well loved bands. Would love to know if this kid is still around and if he remembers this.

Also, no live recordings from 1969 in the vaults. Pretty interesting. Really grateful for Alan and Mark's work, and that this set is getting some press. Looking forward to next year's release.

That is indeed truly fascinating. Especially since it is somewhat of a proto rap/spoken word type of thing. I'm trying to think of a parallel in rock history for such a famous band.

I wonder if any sort of search has ever been conducted to find this kid. This could/should be a scene in a movie or something. I feel like if this ever happened with say, The Beatles, there'd be entire TV special programs dedicated to finding the kid and getting his recollections.

Makes me wonder what stuff other bands did like this that never left the vaults.

I would love to have seen this on their 20/20 album, as some sort of hidden track at the tail end of the album.
38  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: January 15, 2019, 01:21:49 PM
The unfortunate takeaway I have from this is that Mike Love wants people to be afraid of him. There are plenty of parallels to a certain person in today's world of politics too, and I think that some powerful people (who like to make less powerful people fear them) admire that trait in other powerful people too.  

Maybe this is just par for the course with some powerful celebs, but it really feels like a particularly strong case of people being (justifiably) afraid of him due to past litigiousness. I have to think that things like the ridiculous and laughed-out-of-court 2005 lawsuit were really an example of creating an atmosphere of fear to prevent people from publishing books like Rocky's apparent original draft. Guess it worked. It's unfortunate that Brian of all people had to go through grief in 2005 to help Mike add to his portfolio of scare tactics.
 
Sucks for an author to be caught up in this drama. Not Ron's fault. I'm still curious to read the book, Ron, and I will at some point. I wonder if the original draft could have just been released if all the names were changed.

Sums up my thoughts perfectly.
39  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension Release Thread on: January 15, 2019, 01:20:29 PM

Thanks Terry!

Quote
And the track “Oh Yeah” — what’s that about?
Linett: My understanding is that the Beach Boys were on tour — I think they just played the Fillmore East in New York — and because there was this sort of mad scramble to finish up the new album, they’d taken their tapes with them and were working on them every chance they got. I guess they did some work at Capitol Studios in New York, and one of the band members happened upon this kid on the street who was doing this kind of rap thing, and they thought, “Oh, man, this is great, we should get him on tape.” They brought him into the studio, gathered the guys around the mic, and had him lay it down. All it says on the tape box is “Oh Yeah.” No indication as to who he is.

That is such a cool story. Imagine being this kid throwing out some words on the street and next you're in a recording studio with one of America's most well loved bands. Would love to know if this kid is still around and if he remembers this.

Also, no live recordings from 1969 in the vaults. Pretty interesting. Really grateful for Alan and Mark's work, and that this set is getting some press. Looking forward to next year's release.
40  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: January 15, 2019, 10:47:34 AM
Thanks for the reply about that Ron. I will definitely get the Kindle version down the line, and if I have some extra cash in the coming months I will get this book in its current printing. Its a perspective of the band/Brian from an era that I'm really uneducated about, I'm looking forward to giving it a go.
41  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: January 15, 2019, 05:05:51 AM
Ron, I really respect that you've come on here consistently to plug/defend this book. And looking over this thread I think you've come out the bigger person on a multitude of occasions when responding to people who have hurled insults at you. I also think it's commendable that you admit:

Quote
To the others on the site, thank you for your thoughtful and insightful comments. I learned a lot from many of you - get some better fact checkers for one thing. Ha. I maintain that Rocky got to see this great band from the inside, behind the curtain, if you will,  during a really interesting time in the bands history. 

It takes a lot of work to write a book, and I can't imagine the time and dedication it takes. Especially 28 chapters of dedication. With that said, I hope I can help you understand why there is so much angst towards you in this thread. Here is a quote from the excerpt you posted earlier in the thread:

Quote
In 1967, Mike’s discomfort with Brian’s new musical direction caused things to get more than a little heated. As portrayed in the film Love and Mercy, they had an ugly scene, and it brought things to a head. Brian had reached his breaking point; his mental and physical reserves were stretched so thin, he was done.

At that point, Brian effectively quit the band and withdrew into a cocoon of drugs and disenchantment. He vowed he would never write songs again for the Beach Boys, and he opted to slip into oblivion. He just couldn’t take it anymore. He checked out. Why, he asked himself, should he continue shouldering the awesome responsibility that comes with writing the songs, doing the arrangements, teaching the others their parts, both vocally and instrumentally, slaving away in the studio, all the while dealing with a changing audience that was seemingly turning on him and his music?

You are asking people to dedicate their money, and more importantly their time, to reading this book. And excerpts you provide go against much of the truth that many posters here have spent a lot of time fighting for in recent years. There are many in the Beach Boys world that have dedicated a lot of time perpetuating rumors that put Brian in a bad light....whether it is pushback from the amount of Mike Love hatred, I don't know. It doesn't help that Mike Love himself used this same type of misinformation in a lawsuit just over a decade ago for an attempt at a quick buck. So, especially in recent years, many posters here have pushed back against this false idea that Brian is a vegetable, Brian is controlled, Brian effectively quit the band after Smile, Brian did nothing but take drugs and lay in bed after 1967, Carl produced Wild Honey, Mike pulled the band together. The amount of rumors goes on and on, and though I don't at all think people need to berate you, I also think that their anger stems from years of seeing these rumors go unchecked. So when you show up and the chapter you provide has at least one of these rumors, it isn't outside the realm of possibility that people here would get irritated about it.

I also invite you to read Rocky's post history on this forum:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?action=profile;u=9448;sa=showPosts

Between those posts and what we have seen of the book in its current form regarding Stan, Rocky, Mike, etc, it also leaves a lot of questions relating to why there was an almost 180º turnaround in several opinions about certain people - and yeah, you can say that the publisher, you, and Rocky agreed that the book should be more about the love of the Beach Boys (leaving the tabloid stuff out), yet according to those who have read the book there is still some unflattering perspectives regarding some members (Carl and Dennis) while Mike seems to go unscathed. And in your defense you say that this is due to the time period the book is about. Yet the above quote from the book shows an unflattering and untrue look at Brian Wilson mid-60s and beyond which follows the same tabloid style you claim you were trying to avoid. And I will admit, those rumors were so pervasive that many people believed them without question, so I'm not saying it was intentional on your part. But even unintentional it doesn't make the false perspective correct. You and Rocky may not have even seen this sentence "In 1967...Brian effectively quit the band and withdrew into a cocoon of drugs and disenchantment" as unflattering and untrue, but it is untrue and thus unflattering to Brian. And I think you're asking a lot of people here to buy/support this book when it carries on this myth...again, a myth that Mike Love tried to use as leverage in a lawsuit against Brian not that long ago.

So from many angles (be it Rocky's posts from years back, the 180º turnaround the book takes from some of those posts - and the possible confusion that that makes for us potential readers, the misrepresented look at Brian's late-60s life) this book and anyone defending it was bound (no pun intended) to get some flak.

And while you may not appreciate mtaber's amazon review, he's been one of the few people trying to keep insults being hurled at you in this thread:

I don't see any point in being nasty to Ron.  He wrote a book with Rocky, they got it published, and we (as a group) generally are in agreement that we don't think it's a very good book, from what we've read. I respect Ron's right to write a book, he should respect our right to have a negative view of the book.  

I hope most of the above post helps you understand the backlash you have been enduring. Again, respect to you for coming here and dealing with the backlash in the manner you have. Thanks for being open to at least some of the responses that have civilly pointed out some mistakes in the book.

Happy 2019 to you too!

I respectfully agree with you except for tabor. I posted a reply to him. I don't need his protection on this site. I am repulsed at his behavior on the Amazon. He rated the book. HE HAS NOT READ THE BOOK. It hurt and he had no right to put that on Amazon. It was petty. Period.
Have you read the book? I'm not quite sure if you have or are simply reacting to others who have so I don't quite know how to address your other comments correctly.
Please let me know. Thanks.

I have not read the book. Tbh I’m hesitant dropping $21 plus shipping on a book that I have seen a couple inaccuracies in by reading only the introduction and the chapter you uploaded. I can look past some inaccuracies (there are some in probably every Beach Boys book published), but I can’t justify spending $25+ on it.

Perhaps you could respond to the questions made regarding a possible e-book release of this book? I think an e-book release would make this book a bit more affordable to potential readers
42  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1969-70 Copyright Extension Release Prediction Thread on: January 13, 2019, 01:41:02 PM
I'd say comparing the sales of the GV boxset with the MIC boxset may not be a fair contest, mainly because GV '93 came out in a market where the CD box was the primary delivery system for this kind of thing, and where people were still updating their collections from vinyl and tape. MIC, that came into a different world more or less.

It also doesn't help when the band itself has an image which is schizophrenic at best, and has been for several decades to where a set like Sunshine Tomorrow comes out at the same time a homemade video showing the Love-Stamos-McGrath trio comes out to plug an "updated" single release version of a Beach Boys hit from the 60's, and the band carrying the name barely promotes the archival release over the new remake(s). The lines are blurred to the point where fans have two entities of the same band and music, and one will suffer in terms of the less-invested fanbase deciding what is what.

Your entire post was great, but focussing on these two quoted points.

The first, I think you're right about the unfair comparison. And I agree that the climate these sets were released in has changed, which makes it more odd that they'd almost emulate the GV set (with updated rarities and mixes and a different look) rather than making a totally different beast. I know there are many differences between the two, but overall the discs follow the same template. Just my opinion. One of too many I've made in this thread LOL

The second point, couldn't agree more about the band image being all over the place. It's funny that some tend to think that stuff you mentioned doesn't matter, that the 60s music lives on and that nothing the band does these days will affect those things, but the proof is in all the absolute negative press this band gets from time to time anymore. Even when these guys get together the press has to mention the fractious relationship these guys have.
43  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1969-70 Copyright Extension Release Prediction Thread on: January 13, 2019, 01:11:08 PM
Oh, I agree that it is not indicative of their total output, not by a long shot,  but I personally don't think it is the kind of thing that affects sales, and the fact is, they are known for the songs about teenage culture + Pet Sounds, so I get it. It really is safest to play up that aspect and let people discover the other sides of the band at this point. If it was 1971, of course, I'd say they should play up the other sides more. But my experience preaching the Beach Boys gospels is that most people really don't care about the other sides of the band. It's like, their minds are already made up.

That's why I think their GV Boxset look is the better route to take. Where the Beach Boys are known for surfing, and not really known as a school-related-activities band, I just think it makes more sense to market the former rather than the latter. I think CabinessenceKing said it best about MiC:

Quote
The set has a low aestethical appeal. That bland, bright orange cover. There is no contrast of colours or vividness in the colours used. There is no message in that cover; no Sounds of Summer, no Endless Summer!  That hideous 15 Big Ones logo (aesthetically awful and cheesy) blended into the background and the wave motif didn't work at all.

The GV Boxset was very clear about what it was, and I think it does a good job of drawing people in. So I'm not at all against them using their early years as a marketing tool to increase appeal of a boxset/set. But at least give it some appeal...make it obvious what you're going for at least. You can't even really tell it's a yearbook theme until you open the set up. Again I'll say: I like the set. But put the GV set (surfing) and MiC (yearbook) in front of a casual fan with $100 and I'd bet they would pic the more aesthetically pleasing GV set. Just my opinion.

I think we both agree that marketing the early years of the band is a good route to take though.
Yeah, I see what you are saying and I agree: the GV box had a good design, probably better than MIC. But I also see that they didn't want to repeat it.

What I actually think I disagree with just about everybody is that the design  really impacted sales. It's just a tough sell to casuals and fan-base folk alike. I bought it because it had 70 new songs, if you count the new mixes. (And yeah, some of those I had already, but it was nice to be able to actually purchase them.)

But I honestly think that the Beach Boys get right is embracing their early days (from a sales perspective). But Maybe a psychedelic looking cover a la Smiley Smile or Wild Honey might catch the eye of a few folks. But ultimately, I don't think that a $130 dollar box sets are sold because of the look of the box, anyway.

To be fair to anyone involved in this convo, I think just one person implied that it really impacted sales. I will say that it was one of many reasons for it not to do well, but definitely not one of the main reasons...My initial post about the reasons behind MiC's lack of success didn't include the design.

And honestly design of a product are one of the reasons people pick up a set at a store or click on a link online. So while I don't think it made a major impact, even $130 items need to be eye candy. The SMiLE boxset was a friggin masterpiece of art. It's the best looking boxset I own (and likely will ever own), not because of the Smile artwork, but because of what they did with that artwork. So while it didn't impact whether or not I was going to buy it, I'd bet that someone was intrigued by the 3-dimensional artwork enough to pick it up at the store and get interested in what the contents of the box were. It all helps in the long run.
44  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: January 13, 2019, 11:52:07 AM
In Ron's defense, I wonder if he had any idea of the tangled web of whitewashing, distorting, and dishonest historians that bubbles under the BB's fan universe.

I would love to know that too. This is why I'm trying to be more sympathetic to Ron here, because this Beach Boys world is a minefield of idiot politics, petty disagreements that have led to some incidents (and I'm not just talking about forum nonsense), and mis/disinformation. Writing a book about any aspect of this band is bound to be impacted by some of this stuff.

Quote
Sold. I'll buy your book and read it. But are ther any plans to make a Kindle edition? I live abroad and would prefer a version I could read on my Ebook, but if not I'll order the paperback.
This. I'm really intrigued by this book, warts and all, and I'd buy it on Kindle in a heartbeat. Living as I do in Australia though, I can't justify to myself the expense imposed by international shipping and our weak dollar.

Ron, with all this in mind, if you end up selling the e-book for Kindle, will there be some revisions made regarding even a few of the mistakes people have brought up in this thread?
45  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1969-70 Copyright Extension Release Prediction Thread on: January 13, 2019, 11:41:56 AM
Honestly, I think marketing the early years only(or primarily) is selling the group short. They are so much more than the surfing, fun in the sun image. I'd like to see a commercial or online promotional item with a picture of their long hair, bearded hippy phase.  Grin Seriously though, there is so much more to this band, that the endless  surfing and hot rod shtick is almost an insult. Did any of that make sense? It sounds so logical and clear in my head, but I feel like I didn't say it right.  LOL

Oh yeah, couldn't agree more (and have said so a lot in previous threads regarding this stuff), but from a marketing standpoint your average Joe American knows this band as America's Surfin Safari band, so it makes sense to me to market a career spanning boxset the way they marketed the GV Boxset.

I am certain that whatever we get for the Sunflower/Surf's Up sets we will see some hippie looking Beach Boys as part of the promotion (if there is any). Cool Guy

The fact it had surfing imagery, and included a surfboard commemorative sticker (which my set didn't have), and included "Kokomo" I don't think added to its success or appeal. It was the fact you could get 5 discs worth of the band's music with outtakes AND the Smile material in one set, and it was nicely balanced. The fact that it looked like a surfboard only added to what I'm sure some newer or younger fans who bought it experienced in the way of scratching their head and asking is this the same band...after seeing what the "Beach Boys" were doing as of the early 90's versus hearing the Smile material and other examples of what they had done before the dancing "Kokomo Girls" took the stage and Summer In Paradise was the most current album in the stores.

[Keeping in mind this conversation has been about my view of why Made In California's school yearbook cover probably wasn't the best approach to marketing the set] I just think the tasteful surfboard imagery of the GV set cover is more appealing to your casual Beach Boys listener in the store/online more than the flat orange cover of Made in California...I'm not talking about Kokomo's inclusion or any goodies inside the GV box, just the visual appeal of the outside. From a marketing standpoint it just makes sense to me to market the image of the band that your average American thinks of when they think of Beach Boys...especially when its a box set whose target audience is everyone.
46  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1969-70 Copyright Extension Release Prediction Thread on: January 13, 2019, 09:28:39 AM
Oh, I agree that it is not indicative of their total output, not by a long shot,  but I personally don't think it is the kind of thing that affects sales, and the fact is, they are known for the songs about teenage culture + Pet Sounds, so I get it. It really is safest to play up that aspect and let people discover the other sides of the band at this point. If it was 1971, of course, I'd say they should play up the other sides more. But my experience preaching the Beach Boys gospels is that most people really don't care about the other sides of the band. It's like, their minds are already made up.

That's why I think their GV Boxset look is the better route to take. Where the Beach Boys are known for surfing, and not really known as a school-related-activities band, I just think it makes more sense to market the former rather than the latter. I think CabinessenceKing said it best about MiC:

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The set has a low aestethical appeal. That bland, bright orange cover. There is no contrast of colours or vividness in the colours used. There is no message in that cover; no Sounds of Summer, no Endless Summer!  That hideous 15 Big Ones logo (aesthetically awful and cheesy) blended into the background and the wave motif didn't work at all.

The GV Boxset was very clear about what it was, and I think it does a good job of drawing people in. So I'm not at all against them using their early years as a marketing tool to increase appeal of a boxset/set. But at least give it some appeal...make it obvious what you're going for at least. You can't even really tell it's a yearbook theme until you open the set up. Again I'll say: I like the set. But put the GV set (surfing) and MiC (yearbook) in front of a casual fan with $100 and I'd bet they would pic the more aesthetically pleasing GV set. Just my opinion.

I think we both agree that marketing the early years of the band is a good route to take though.
47  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1969-70 Copyright Extension Release Prediction Thread on: January 13, 2019, 06:57:09 AM

This. I remember the inclusion of the Pom Pom Playgirl vocal session track being a real irritant for me - knowing that there are some incredible tracks STILL in the vault and the vocal session for Pom Pom Playgirl made the cut. I still don't get that.
 

I think this must have been done because the song is notable for being Carl's 1st lead vocal, hence the historical significance. I feel confident in assuming that if it had been just another dime-a-dozen Mike lead from this era, that the vocal session would not have gotten its own place in this set.

I remember being blown away by hearing the tracking session for this song (was it on the 1964 Copyright Extension release?) because it had more nuance and complexity than it seemed on the surface, and I was especially surprised to hear Mike playing sax at this (for him) late date in the timeline. Kind of the last gasp of any instrument like that being played by a BBs band member prior to the Wrecking Crew taking over those types of instruments.

While it wasn't a complex sax part, I still feel that finding out that Mike played that part was a "wow" moment for me, somewhat dispelling a myth that he just played sax on a couple songs in the very early years.

That makes sense. I think it being on the rarities disc just throws me off. That '64 Copyright release is my favorite one they've released. EVERY track on there is gold.

@BeachBoysCovers, thanks much for the info!
48  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Discuss & Rate Brian Wilson Songs Day by Day on: January 13, 2019, 06:44:32 AM
The harmonious coda was jaw dropping for me when I first heard this, and still is in ways. He's singing about eating vegetables but my goodness it sounds so beautiful! The 2011 SMiLE version is much more diverse/experimental, yet still cohesive. Yet the BWPS version has a real charm to it, too.

5/5
49  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1969-70 Copyright Extension Release Prediction Thread on: January 12, 2019, 04:06:04 PM
Great post, Cabinessenceking.

- The set offered little new for buyers, considering its price:
For the casual listener, there was little incentive to get this set. For the fans the awards of getting this set were relatively small, with a scattering of new unreleased tracks scattered amongst the conventional material we already possess. Instead of offering the really interesting pieces, they put out stuff nobody wanted to hear, like the instrumental track of "Transcendental Meditation".

This. I remember the inclusion of the Pom Pom Playgirl vocal session track being a real irritant for me - knowing that there are some incredible tracks STILL in the vault and the vocal session for Pom Pom Playgirl made the cut. I still don't get that.

Do we know how the Pet Sounds 50th set did? I feel like we already had the boxset for that album, so I can't imagine that one faired too well either.
50  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: January 12, 2019, 03:58:18 PM
2rab2591 & co: Why exactly you reply with defense towards the OP? There's CLEARLY zero "recent insults" (keyword "recent") since the OP's last visit here. As you see, the last 20-25 posts here is the OP engaging in dialog with various posters. What the OP even talks about? You know full well there isn't any "recent insult". The OP baited you. Nobody had new questions posed to the OP since his last visit, the thread been quiet, thus to bring attention to it, he went to talk about "recently" being insulted, when actually he brought up ancient past year stuff he replied to *already*, *done & finished*. It's like this - must do sth. to bring thread back in action. How? By playing victim, so you, people, will defend him. It's amazing that, despite knowing there weren't any insults *recently*, you still replied, when instead you could point out precisely that.

I'm pretty certain I had read an insult directed at him from another thread elsewhere days ago...which is what he could have been referring to. Anyways, this is a message board and I just wanted to give my two cents. If it was Ron's intent to bring attention to this thread, then perhaps I did play into his hand, but then by responding to my post publicly (instead of PMing me about the issue) you have played into his hand too by giving this thread even more public attention and clicks down the line. But again, this is a message board and we're free to give our opinions and insights into anything that is posted. You are completely free to critique my posts, and I am completely free to respond to Ron. It's just the way it goes on message boards.

Happy 2019, RangeRover Smiley
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