[This is a textbook example of passive aggression.]

Partly to try and clarify my previous post, and partly to further ease my mind from HJ, I'll quote this from the Other Board:

"Given the law of diminishing returns, Brian's recent problems and the high probability of it being mostly not that "new" at all, I just can't get worked up at all over the prospect of another BW album. For all its faults and problems, let No Pier Pressure be his last proper vocal release."

This is a textbook example of passive aggression. Translation in plain English: "Brian is toast and has been since Heaven knows when. Nothing by him will be any good in any case, so I'll accept even NPP as his final statement. At My Piano and Long Promised Road, and anything else he may do, may go f*** themselves."

See? Already deflagrated.

And so, I guess, that's it with my long relationship with BB fandom. Heaven knows it's been rough sailing. I'm returning to basics... the best music ever made by anyone in the world. The world of their music, where nobody will keep reminding either that Mike is Devil incarnate or that Brian is toast and did nothing good since 1966. The music by

Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike, Alan, Bruce, David, Blondie, Ricky and all the others.

The Beach Boys.

Some of those people there have always done this. Back around 2010 I first came to this board and the general consensus being lobbed from some of these people was that Brian would always be a vegetable, he wasn't in control of his own life, and his band did all the work when it came to his music, etc etc. It was so prevalent that, as a new fan, it was easy to believe these things.

It took great posters like Wirestone and others to convince me otherwise that Brian is definitely in control of his life and that he makes his own music. Then NPP happened, and the floodgates opened. A small vocal segment of "fans" ripped every aspect of that album to shreds - to the point where Brian's very dignity was being attacked from many different angles.

Looking back on the near 15 years I've been apart of the fandom (which is but a drop in the bucket compared to some fans), I feel a lot of remorse for a lot of comments I've made and arguments I've started. But overall I feel an overwhelming sadness for the general fandom itself. It's just been kinda sad that a lot of online-interaction with fellow fans has tarnished the actual music for me and others I know. Which is why I have mostly stepped away from posting in recent years.

As for the band feuds, it's not just the Brian bashing that brings this fandom down, but yeah it's also the Mike bashing. I think Mike has done some very lousy things over the years, and I think he's deserved a lot of the criticism he gets, but not everything the man does deserves a mob of pitchfork wielding fans typing loudly from their living rooms (and I'll be the first to admit I've ripped into him over trivial things over the years).

If any of us were in Mike's shoes I wonder if we'd do anything much different...and I mean if we lived his entire life (from birth, to working at a gas station, to being screwed out of writing credits on famous songs, etc). Mike and Brian have both been shaped by their upbringings, their rise to fame, their own personal demons. We can shout from the sidelines, but it's gotta be much different when you're the one on the field, in the spotlight, and your entire life has been defined by the game.

No I'm not excusing Mike's behavior, but I don't think scrutinizing every thing the man does is going to make us happier as a fandom, and it's certainly not going to make the music sound better.

Zenobi, I think your comment about "returning to the basics" is spot on, it is exactly what so many of us need.

Considering that this very thread started with someone whining about "right wing pieces of sh*t" (which is code for "how dare someone have a different opinion than me"), I'd say your point goes both ways.  Regardless as to whether or not I agree or disagree with Mike on any given topic, I found this joke to be kinda lame ultimately.  But a joke nonetheless.  Something not newsworthy or even worthy of the scrutiny of this message board.  Something that you either chuckle or groan at and then move on with your day unscathed.

Agreed. Hope everyone, here and elsewhere, are having a good day/night.

So I'm possibly going to go against the current, but I'd say their Little Deuce Coupe album from '63 is their most vocally ambitious/perfect album.

'Spirit of America' is a great example of how many vocals elements Brian could lay on a track and yet still make it sound so cohesive/clear. It's not just a layer of vocals harmonizing the same melody, but Mike is doing a bass thing, Brian's doing a high range thing, and it's all flowing with these harmonies of the main melody (and there's probably more going on than that). And the entire album is like that. 'Car Crazy Cutie' and 'Cherry Cherry Coupe' are underrated gems full of these far out vocal elements....Mike's bass line on the chorus of CCC is one of my favorite vocal moments in their entire catalogue.

'A Young Man Is Gone' is one of the most prayerful tracks (besides 'Our Prayer') that Brian ever put on an album. So much vocally going on with that.

Pet Sounds will always be my favorite Beach Boy album; it perfectly balances Brian's genius with instrumental production with his almost ethereal knowledge of harmony. But since the two balance out, it doesn't really showcase how far these guys could take their vocal harmony...which is why I think LDC is the album that best demonstrates how talented these guys were at harmony (and how talented Brian was at writing the harmony parts).

Hi pmugghc,

There's actually a thread dedicated to this album here, and here is a thread with other various AI content. I shared my thoughts in the Bookoff Smile thread - I feel like this is the first vintage Smile mix I've heard that sounds complete.

I have some favorite fan mixes of vintage Smile, but all of them still have those songs that are obviously missing lyrics; whereas Mike's version has none of that - it feels like a completed album from '67.

It has people talking about Smile once again, not just talking but really digging deep into the music, and letting it run through their imagination, which is one of the strengths of this music. That's been sorely lacking in my opinion over at least the past 5 years or more, and has been pushed aside by various pockets of this fan base seeming to determine what should be discussed and how it should be discussed and perceived, which is why my interest waned more than a bit in recent years.

Maybe I've missed it, but I find it interesting that FatheroftheMan's version of SMiLE hasn't been talked about at all elsewhere. Makes me wonder if the people enjoying these AI creations are simply avoiding the constant backlash of negativity from the usuals, so they've stopped bringing it up in a positive light. Love it or hate it, the Bookoff mix deserves to be talked about. Firstly, AI vocals aside it is a sonic wonder*, and secondly, the AI vocals make it the most complete vintage SMiLE ever mixed (if you're able to pretend/imagine for 30 minutes that the AI vocals are real).

*"AI vocals aside" - want to clarify that even if one doesn't like the AI vocals, this mix is worth the listen for all the other sonic gems it has to offer.

Speaking of Smile, I ran across the Surf's Up instrumental from BWPS just now on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNETTrZ_aAE), were all of these made available at some point? I was only aware of 'Heroes and Villains being' an available instrumental from the 2004 album. Would love to get my hands on all the tracks.

Speaking of which, if anyone from Brian's camp is reading this thread, I would love a 20th anniversary BWPS boxset. Would be amazing to have the album remastered/remixed (apparently the vinyl album sounded amazing but the digital/CDs did not? would love for the digital version to have that warm sound people talk about when referring to the vinyl). Also, vocals-only tracks, all the instrumentals. There could be commentary by Darian and others between some of the bonus tracks. Put the audio of those amazing interviews between VDPs and Brian Wilson from the BWPS DVD onto the tail end of the set.

I just love that I can go to Metacritic, click on "Top albums of all time", and BWPS is still sitting there at the #3 position. This album deserves some love!

[The illusion works]

Since English is not my first language, I rarely post

Judging by your post I'd say you have a better grasp of the English language than 95% of Americans. So please post more!

I love your line "The illusion works" - it really does. I'm listening to this again tonight and I'm struck by how complete this feels...a complete album from start to finish with no awkard "this track was clearly supposed to have a vocal track" moments.

About 10 years ago (maybe more) I got burnt out on Smile mixes - I have saved all my favorite fan mixes on hard drives, but took them all out of my music library and have mostly just listened to BWPS the past decade. This is the first fan mix of SMiLE I have put in my music library in probably 10+ years. So huge props, Mike, for all your hard work.

Also I caught a glimpse of the YouTube video you uploaded today - huge thanks to you for not only sharing all your hard work but also setting some guidelines for people regarding this AI stuff. I can't even begin to imagine how hard you've been working on all this, but it has really paid off. Each track has all these big and little elements that clearly show the love/respect you've put into this.

Mike,

I'm halfway into the mix and had to stop to collect my thoughts - your outro on 'Surf's Up' is one of the most powerful/beautiful moments of music I've ever heard. When that deep piano step-down mixes from the left to center (and how you mixed the bass with it), that alongside the mixing of the harmonies - I'm utterly blown away.

I won't go deep into why this means so much to me, other than to say I've been fairly distant from The Beach Boys' music the last few years, but this mix (and 'Surf's Up' in particular thus far) have helped me find that missing joy again. Now back to listening....

A few notes from my listen:

- I love how seamless your AI vocals are in DYLW. Obviously I know they're AI but at one point I had to remind myself "oh yeah, this isn't real"
- I can't believe how good Brian's Barnyard/Great Shape vocals are. Never heard them that crisp/clear before. Very surprised by that!
- The stereo in 'Wonderful' is so beautiful. I think I will always love BWPS version the most, but this mix is almost up there for me.
- Again, had to remind myself I was listening to AI when listening to CIFOTM. Yes, my brain knows it's AI but it's also fun to just lose yourself in an alternate reality where Brian did complete this.
- SO glad you kept Vega Tables mix in-tact from TSS/MIC. My favorite mix of that song.
- 'Love To Say DaDa' - fantastic work!!!!

"Months and months ago when I began this project I was pretty sure the community would be morally opposed to AI vocals."

I get why some don't like this stuff - either for ethical reasons or because it doesn't sound exactly like Brian - but I am beyond grateful that there's a market for this stuff. As in: I'm so glad there is a group of people willing to set aside reality so they can hear the magic of what could have been. I think it takes a certain amount of imagination/disbelief to get this type of thing, and I think for many of those obsessed with SMiLE (an album that is surrounded by unknowns, what-ifs, spirituality, and magic) this sort of tinkering and creativity are exactly why we love the album to begin with. So thank you for taking so much time to create this.

Great work! Being totally ignorant of how hard the process of making this stuff is, could you possibly make an alternate version with Brian's found melody from TSS? I would love to hear someone's interpretation of that.

Absolutely! This was one of the things I tried, I just don't know how the rest of the lyrics would fit into that scheme   Definitely worth exploring though!

Awesome! Yeah I remember a thread on here from back in 2011 (can you all believe that was 12 some years ago?) where some people tried to piece how that melody would complete itself....but that was just in that one line...like you say, making all the rest of the lyrics fit into that will be a challenge! Looking forward to this and your other Smile AI creations!

This was my 2011 attempt to fit the DYLW lyrics to the melody found on the Smile Sessions. It incorporates a bit of Little Pad to round out the line. And while I’m certainly not a singer, I bet AI Brian could make it sound pretty decent.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2RpdU8Bep28

That must be what I'm remembering! Great idea mixing in some Little Pad melody.

[I just aimed to remaster all the tracks into the cleanest FLAC Stereo mixes modern AI could facilitate.]

First off, thank you and thank you to everyone else who has commented on YT I really appreciate the feedback and I hope the full project lives up to the expectations set!

Cabinessenceking, I completely agree. When I started BOOKOFF Smile, I just aimed to remaster all the tracks into the cleanest FLAC Stereo mixes modern AI could facilitate. I found myself singing along to the songs and imagining... but being able to hear just a tiny bit of how it MAY have sounded... it gets the brain juice pumping and really starts to fill in the blanks. I hope the feeling is just as strong with the other tracks!

Love to Say Dada... what a track. In Blue Hawaii has some of my favorite vocals on BWPS... I'm giving it my all and really trying to capture the arrangement as close to a Brian sound as I can. Obviously, the more vocals missing the harder the task... DYLW was close to finished compared to these! 

So 'On A Holiday' is one of my favorite tracks from BWPS but my least favorite from TSS (or any other vintage mix) due to the quality. Has there been any improvement to the sound of that track with the AI stuff?

I've never understood why the stereo version of Pet Sounds sounds so pristine (like you're sitting there in the studio) and yet for many Smile tracks it sounds like they were recorded on a portable tape recorder then dubbed to an acetate, played 12 times, etc.

Great work! Being totally ignorant of how hard the process of making this stuff is, could you possibly make an alternate version with Brian's found melody from TSS? I would love to hear someone's interpretation of that.

Absolutely! This was one of the things I tried, I just don't know how the rest of the lyrics would fit into that scheme   Definitely worth exploring though!

Awesome! Yeah I remember a thread on here from back in 2011 (can you all believe that was 12 some years ago?) where some people tried to piece how that melody would complete itself....but that was just in that one line...like you say, making all the rest of the lyrics fit into that will be a challenge! Looking forward to this and your other Smile AI creations!

First off, seltaeb, if you would like me to start my own thread I surely will. I don't wanna hijack your awesome work, but I feel it's a little redundant to create another AI thread.

Second... I have a question for you all...

Do you Like Worms?
https://youtu.be/Gdeh72-mFoA

I'm working on the full track, as well as a few more pieces of Smile. I have a separate model from seltaeb I've been training myself. I'm not perfect at performing for it yet either! That said, let me know what you think! I figure, since it isn't "real" I should add a bit of my own arrangement while keeping it true to the vision as closely as can be with the limited info and lack of recordings.

So excited to share the whole Smile mix with you all! I have a lot more going on here than just the AI vocals!

Great work! Being totally ignorant of how hard the process of making this stuff is, could you possibly make an alternate version with Brian's found melody from TSS? I would love to hear someone's interpretation of that.

Patiently waiting for AI fix the vocal flub in Soulful Old Man Shunshine...

Thank you! Yeah, I mean it's kind of a dream come true for fans. So much potential. And who knows, maybe one day these tools will be utilized for official releases. I could imagine a full AI concert experience featuring "live" vocals, holograms, etc. Imagine seeing Pet Sounds or SMiLE live, or Sgt. Pepper, the White Album, etc... Or even being able to sort of program your own concert at home. "Hey ChatGPT, play me Knebworth 1980, only replace all the songs with Love You in its entirety!"

It had been my dream for years that Brian's band would do Brian Wilson Reimagines Love You - and instead of the synths (which I do love) we could hear those songs with Pet Sounds-esque instrumentals.

Perhaps, years down the road, AI could recreate the instruments/vocals on Love You to make them more of a 1965/'66 Beach Boys style. Not dying to hear this, but it would be cool if possible.
________

On another note, I find the response to these tracks to be incredible. I don't have the brainpower to decipher the varying opinions (nor the patience to read every post relating to this topic). Hey Jude seems to be right that there are a swath of people claiming they love it, and a swath of people saying they hate it, and I haven't really seen many in-betweeners.

While I have really liked what I've heard thus far, I am also hesitant about this stuff. But I also find myself hesitant to adopt a lot of mainstream modern technology, feeling nostalgia for simpler times and how people seemed to be much more inwardly/spiritually content 20+ years ago without Alexas or robot vacuum cleaners.

It's odd, because I have almost equal-opposite reactions to these AI tracks: I really am positively floored by the technology, and it's cool to be tricked into a fantasy of hearing Brian at the piano doing a demo of GoK. But I seem to also want to shut my computer down and travel back to simpler times. Something just feels wrong about it this AI stuff - like a feeling in the back of my mind - and I don't think I'm alone in feeling that.

Again, this is really cool stuff, and I'm happy that AI tech isn't just being used to help students cheat when writing essays. I love that the creatives here on the forums are delving in and trying to create something cool for us fans to get lost in. Can't shake that uneasy feeling though - though maybe that's just normal when a vastly new technology becomes available. Can't imagine what people thought of telephones after thousands of years of writing letters to one another.

These are amazing. Especially Guess I'm Dumb. I would love to hear A Day in the Life of a Tree. Subscribed!

WOW that 'Guess I'm Dumb' is great. 'Be My Baby' is off the charts great!

I can see why this would worry people - but just for the "what if" this is incredible. This stuff isn't going to replace classic Beach Boys, but for those of us who wish we could Brian take the lead on certain tracks, what a treat.

I work in a field that is very much targeted by AI right now (graphics//video). But I heard a great commentary on it recently - that AI, like any other computerized tool in recent years, is a tool...it doesn't have to be the end of your job as long as you utilize the tool. It's much more complicated than that, but that's the simple version of it. I look at the graphic/art AI technology the same way I'm looking at this audio AI tech: it may seem rudimentary now, but wait for the tech to evolve.

Such technology could very well mean the end of my job in the future, but oddly enough doesn't make it any less fascinating for me.

I played the AI tracks for my wife and she was also blown away that it was AI...yeah it doesn't sound perfect and there are clear flubs/imperfections, but to think that this is the first iteration of the technology that has Brian sing on songs he never sang on. It's quite a marvel.

To me, the AI vocals sound much more convincing than AI photos.

Imagine the possibilities. Using Brian's current voice to do a lead vocal for What a Fool Believes, and then slipping it into his jukebox...

Actually, I'd like to hear that.

Yeah the possibilities seem endless. And like with anything, I'm sure there will be very bad implementations of it, but also very good implementations of it. It's kinda like some SMiLE mixes aren't great, unoriginal, but others really capture the magic...some Smile mixes may not be true to the history of the project, but they sound amazing. And like Smile mixes, there are so many variables that can make them good or bad.

Likewise I think there are so many variables with this new technology. And I also think that it opens up an entire new universe to explore and tinker with. These mixes are cracking the door open. Just imagine what we'll be hearing, good or bad, in the years to come.

And what do you know, the legendary BBS historian is talking sh*t…

I don't think the criticisms being lobbed at this are entirely accurate or fair. To quote Hey Jude from earlier, "It’s important with this stuff to try to remain level-headed, and also polite and not dismissive."

To say it sounds "nothing" like Brian is obviously excessive criticism. I liken the criticism to someone mocking a CGI explosion from a 1990s Hollywood movie "that looks nothing like an explosion" - when in reality the computer helped digitally generate an image of fire, smoke, and a shockwave. Is it a real explosion? No. Does it look perfect? No. But to claim it looks "nothing" like an explosion is to melodramatically ignore that a digital artist took real-life visual elements/cues and created a digital representation that is very similar to a real life explosion.

Ethics aside, I think this is absolutely stunning. Reminds me of the story of the creators of Pixar making a very rudimentary short version of Toy Story - it looked utterly creepy and disjointed, but the visionaries (including Steve Jobs) saw the potential and invested heavily...they didn't say "those look nothing like toys, this fails miserably" - they saw the potential and ended up making a multibillion dollar company that changed digital animation forever.

I'm not saying that seltaeb is going to become a billionaire using someone's AI software to recreate Brian's voice, but I am saying that to quickly/rudely dismiss/criticize this work is fairly pretentious and ignores the possibilities to come. I can see why someone wouldn't like what they're hearing with these tracks (for a couple reasons), but it's also another thing to be excessively dismissive.

This stuff definitely sounds "close enough" to Brian Wilson that when I hear it, yeah I do start to think, huh, what if we had the 1966 Beach Boys' voices singing the 2004 lyrics to "Blue Hawaii" or "On a Holiday"?  Could a complete, seamless Smile LP be created with AI?   And the answer to that question would appear to be "yes."  But should it be done?  I must admit that I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea, and we get into philosophical questions about whether something "artificial" can be an acceptable substitute for something "real"... and the extent to which the lines between "real"l and "artificial" are blurring. We're  in brave new world

I definitely get that. I think it's important that anyone who does these labels them as "AI" so it's documented. Who knows, it could become illegal one day. I'm surprised deepfakes are still legal.

Probably not technically a deep fake (as it's clearly satire), but the one where George Lucas critiques the Rise of Skywalker trailer is one of the greatest things to come from this era/tech.

The other day Elon Musk and a bunch of other techies said that a 6-month halt on AI technology was needed - now I'm wondering if Elon's less concerned with ChatGPT and more concerned with the possibility of hearing Mike Love singing lead on 'God Only Knows'

[here]

Hey all,

I came across some new technology and decided to have a little fun with it!

Here's one to test the waters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13ICunDuIcg&ab_channel=DaeLims

I've been debating posting, but it was too overwhelming to think I'm the only who has heard any of this stuff.  

The technology is here. Should we have some fun before all the sh*t takes start popping up?  

PS - Lots more where this came from, if people are interested!

This is unbelievable....like in a weird, good, bad, amazing way

Seriously it wasn't perfect but moments in there sounded like straight up Brian. And to heck with perfection, that this is even remotely possible is mind-blowing. I can't even imagine how this technology will transform even in just the next year.

I'm rather concerned about this technology for many reasons, but this is a case where the creative in me is excited for the possibilities.

We have MIDI orchestras, pianos, etc that can help us replicate an orchestra/band. And now we can add "Brian Wilson", "Carl Wilson", etc to the list of instruments people can use to create their own little slices of beautiful music.

I'm sure a lot of bad sounding stuff will come from this, but I can imagine that we'll all be pleasantly surprised (as we already are) at some gems that come from this new era of technology.

Great work, seltaeb!

Does make one wonder though - because let's say Carl was still with us right now: from 1998 to 2023 is 25 years, and that's a LONG time. While Mike and Bruce have seemed to be perfectly happy being on the road during that entire time, I wonder if Carl would've been less likely to do the same thing day in and day out, and rather would've gotten the itch to do something more creative with Brian in an official capacity.

OR if Carl's presence in The Beach Boys, during the past 25 years, would've created a more suitable common ground for both Mike and Brian to reconcile. I know almost nothing about Brian, the band, and the band politics during the mid-90s, so my thoughts aren't based in any solid reality of the situation during those times.

Not only is this a reminder of the fragility of life, but also of how fast time seems to go by as we get older. I hope Carl’s family is doing well, and I hope all the fans, heroes and villains from all corners of the globe, are keeping in good health and happiness.

Alcohol is an addictive product for some people but not everyone.
I wonder how addictive it is compared to non-legal drugs; it may kill 80,000 per year compared to 70,000 for heroin, but it is also way more widely consumed.

Alcohol has been normalized by society and is not held to the same standard as other drugs. How much sense that makes in terms of negative impacts to individuals and society I do not know.

But how black and white can we be about the matter? The sugar and fast food industries also sell products that are addictive, can cause disease and ruin lives.

And I readily consume them at any given opportunity.
But I'm not out there bashing people that eat at McDonald's or enjoy a Pepsi now and again.

If eating a cheeseburger led to a much higher probability of getting into a head on collision on the way home from a restaurant, I think society would have a different outlook on cheeseburgers. If we're really comparing the two, more people died of alcohol related incidents than of obesity last year. I don't know of anyone who has lost their home and family or who has killed themselves on the road because they were obese. But I do know far too many people who have destroyed themselves and others because of booze. Yes, binging on food can lead to disastrous health consequences, but it also doesn't put other people's lives at risk on the road, binging on food doesn't lead to 1 million+ acts of violence every year, there are no acts of sexual assault by people under the influence of a Dr. Pepper, etc....but yet all these things happen as a result of alcohol every day. And while society deems the effects of alcohol normal, I personally don't think all of those negative effects should be considered normal.

I'm not advocating we ban alcohol. I haven't bashed anyone for drinking alcohol. I'm just saying that I agree with Mike about the issue: alcohol has negative side effects for a lot of people, and it can lead to destruction of lives as the facts, statistics, and subjective evidence from nearly everyone's lives (be it people we know or know of) show.

I think that LoCash song is diametrically opposed to Mike's quotes (which I posted above) over the years where he is adamantly (and seemingly passionately) speaking out against the pitfalls of alcohol and how he has seen it destroy loved ones in his life. I guess most people see the LoCash song as a dumb party song, but the fact is it is advocating the use of alcohol - something Mike has spoken out against time and time again. Thus I find it hypocritical of him to have anything to do with the song.

As absolutely disgusting and indefensible as Mike's comments have been, I do feel that citing his involvement in "Beach Boys" by Locash is a stretch. George Jones was notorious for the destruction that alcohol addiction caused him, yet in 2001, he collaborated with Garth Brooks on "Beer Run (B-Double E-Double Are You In?)," a "feel good" song about drinking (and driving). This was just two years removed from songs like "Choices" and "Cold Hard Truth," that laid bare what overindulgence can do. And, as someone who not only is most definitely NOT a country music fan, and who also feels that alcohol is indisputably the most destructive drug known to man, I never once thought of Jones as a hypocrite for recording what amounted to an early proto-bro country, buddy drinking song.
I say this not to defend Mike or that horrendous song, but because, as a political scientist, reaches such as this can have a detrimental effect on valid arguments.

Thanks for your input and for explaining that perspective more.

I actually 100% agree with Mike about booze (his quotes above at least). And another point about how strongly I feel about my argument: I feel like a hypocrite when I buy a beer at a restaurant or bring wine/6-pack to a get-together - because I am then monetarily supporting an industry that is making an addictive product that has ruined millions of lives. So perhaps that can shed light on why I feel the way I do. I’m looking at Mike as a hypocrite the same way I look at myself when I support the industry. If there is a drug that is causing pain in the world, any amount of promotion or support of that drug is just going to bring more pain into the world (be it writing songs that promote its use, or by handing over my cash to the alcohol industry when buying a Guinness). That’s about as simple as I can state my case. Perhaps it’s illogical to most, but that’s the way I see it.

Don’t get me wrong, I do see your and Peadar’s point about my argument being a stretch (meaning from the perspective of societal norms today I can see why LoCash’s song is seen by some/most of you as harmless). I just don’t see it as harmless…I don’t see any drugs in any amount (be they alcohol, cigarettes, etc) as a positive thing for the world, so the promotion and support of alcohol just doesn’t seem like a positive thing to me.

Thanks again for writing out your perspective, I do get where you’re coming from, and hopefully I’ve explained myself well enough for y’all to see where I’m coming from (even if we don’t agree).

“It absolutely saved me... There are many ways to relax. Alcohol, marijuana, other drugs, but they all have side effects."
“It was heartbreaking to see my own family members destroying themselves through drink and drugs.”
“[TM] gives you a sort of high without having to resort to alcohol and drugs.”
“I was fortunate to learn mediation that kept me away from the drugs and alcohol. I used to drink hard liquor, but when I learned meditation I found it deeply relaxing and was able to relax through that way — not through alcohol or marijuana or anything like that. So if you're serious about music and about your life it's really good to pick up on habits that are positive and life supporting that are good for you…”
“Alcohol and marijuana and other drugs may be relaxing or invigorating or whatever, but you can get plenty relaxed through meditation without the negative side-effects…Bruce and Alan [Jardine] and myself didn't [indulge] and the Wilson brothers did. Tragically with Dennis [Wilson] it led to his early demise…”

- Mike Love

He lambasts Brian for drug use that occurred 40+ years ago (alluding that it led to Brian having the odd inability to use a telephone - talk about reaching too far), he talks constantly about how alcohol isn’t good for you (and points to how it led to his bandmate’s demise), how it was “heartbreaking” for him to see his bandmates destroy themselves with alcohol, then he promotes that very substance in a song. I think it’s fairly obvious how hypocritical that is, how backwards it is. Which is the point. As you yourself point out, Peadar, it’s a song to listen to while partying at spring break. After reading the above quotes by Mike Love, one would logically think that Mike Love would want nothing to do with this song (as it clearly promotes something he clearly objects to in countless interviews).

I highly doubt the kids at the spring break parties are listening to LoCash’s “Beach Boys” sitting in a circle lotus position doing transcendental meditation.

Tbf I've already picked apart your logic and again you're doing what I referred to in my last post.

Ok then this is going way over my head. I do not see anywhere where you picked apart my points (specifically the 1-4 points I made in my last post) - if you could point me to the post (perhaps I missed it) where you clearly laid out your argument I’d be grateful. Or if someone else can help explain this to me - because there is something I’m just not getting then.