Mike the dominant creative force when it came to conceptual content?

[SMiLE Brian]

Exactly GF, all these guys would defend Mike against reality itself. He'll even if Mike hung out with the Manson crew.

[rab2591]

That part of the quote - "conceptually" - is being twisted, again intentionally, to criticize Mike Love.

That's nonsense. The twisting of the words, parsing of the words, finding any excuse to "interpret" them as something other than what they actually were up to and including suggesting he was misquoted came fast and furious as soon as people started to post reactions that didn't agree with Mike's commentary. Look at who is doing the most twisting, parsing, and filibustering in this thread as opposed to reading the words exactly as they appeared, and you'll see what happens when damage control tries and fails to smooth things out.

Like clockwork.

This thread is a perfect example of the hypocrisy that is rampant on this board, and you are leading the way. Again.

Thread after thread, post after post, the subject comes up about the Beach Boys' image of cars, girls, surfing, and fun in the sum-sum-summertime. And who is usually held responsible (blamed?) for that image? Well, that would be Mike Love, of course. Mike was the one who wrote the words, pushed the concepts on the group, and maybe even bullied Brian into going in that direction when he (Brian) didn't really want to. Yep, it was Mike Love all along. Blame him. It was HIS fault.

Then, now, Mike Love takes credit for it, takes credit for the very thing he is accused of on this board. But, instead of saying, "See, I told you they were his ideas, he was responsible, it was him", no, now you don't want to give him the credit. Now you want to take it away. Hey, guitarfool2012, you have a way with words. What's that called? Having it both ways?

I know this post wasn't addressed to me but firstly I am prepared to admit openly that I consider Mike wanted to maintain the concept of Endless Summer type material. Had Mike said 'I was the main lyricist for a large part of the Beach Boys' career and the idea of Endless Summer type songs was mine' I'd have found this perfectly acceptable. Mike deliberately phrased this in a way that suggested he was creatively more significant than Brian and THAT is what I take exception to.

That is common sense, absolutely. Yet whatever it was about that phrase and the reaction to it has led to those who legitimately did take exception to it (and can lay out reasons why) now being tagged with having an "anti-Mike bias", with hypocrisy, any number of other charges, and have had to read through 10+ pages of attempts to parse and perform surgery on the actual words spoken in order to "explain" or "interpret" the meaning intended versus what was actually said.

And the really sad part of all that is had the words been chosen more carefully, had they been phrased just a bit differently, none of the explanations and defenses and parsing-spinning would have happened. It could have been a positive, but that's not how it played out. Unfortunately that's usually not how it plays out over the past few years, and that is a total mystery why it continues to happen. It doesn't need to.

It is sad isn't it. And it doesn't need to be. But, why is it so? Well, maybe because when Brian is interviewed and says something that is totally untrue (and there are times it can be factually proven), many people on this board take the position, "Oh, that's just Brian being being Brian. Funny guy. And, (cough) well, we know he's had some problems..."  But, when Mike says something, well, it has to be totally torn apart, word for word, and turned it into a multi-page Mike bashing fest. I guess THAT has to be.

Does Brian say Mike is controlled? Does Brian publicly take backhanded swipes at the people Mike works with? Does Brian decry auto-tune in Mike's solo output before he even fucking hears the music? When Brian is asked "what things do you regret from you past?" he doesn't respond by bitching about things Mike did back in the day. THAT is why people dislike Mike. That is why there is a definite anti-Mike slant on the board. Brian gets something factually wrong, it probably is due to him being forgetful. Yet Brian is always humble, always kind to his cousin and brothers when being interviewed. Mike on the other hand proves he is completely tactless in nearly every interview - whether its him being boastful, or him taking pot-shots at Brian and his management.

[Sheriff John Stone]

That part of the quote - "conceptually" - is being twisted, again intentionally, to criticize Mike Love.

That's nonsense. The twisting of the words, parsing of the words, finding any excuse to "interpret" them as something other than what they actually were up to and including suggesting he was misquoted came fast and furious as soon as people started to post reactions that didn't agree with Mike's commentary. Look at who is doing the most twisting, parsing, and filibustering in this thread as opposed to reading the words exactly as they appeared, and you'll see what happens when damage control tries and fails to smooth things out.

Like clockwork.

This thread is a perfect example of the hypocrisy that is rampant on this board, and you are leading the way. Again.

Thread after thread, post after post, the subject comes up about the Beach Boys' image of cars, girls, surfing, and fun in the sum-sum-summertime. And who is usually held responsible (blamed?) for that image? Well, that would be Mike Love, of course. Mike was the one who wrote the words, pushed the concepts on the group, and maybe even bullied Brian into going in that direction when he (Brian) didn't really want to. Yep, it was Mike Love all along. Blame him. It was HIS fault.

Then, now, Mike Love takes credit for it, takes credit for the very thing he is accused of on this board. But, instead of saying, "See, I told you they were his ideas, he was responsible, it was him", no, now you don't want to give him the credit. Now you want to take it away. Hey, guitarfool2012, you have a way with words. What's that called? Having it both ways?

Ahh, here we go, hypocrisy, double standard, etc. I'm the hypocrite on the board, yet again. Prove it. Then we can talk about some hypocrisy on this board hardly anyone knows about. Make sure you check on that carefully before opening that Pandora's Box.

On topic: When The Beach Boys were getting slaughtered in the late 60's for that image of surf-sun-cars-girls, when all of the things that made them superstars were really getting criticized and dismissed, where was Mike Love to defend it publicly?

Guess I shouldn't expect a reply to this.

Sorry, I'm late on that. Nonsense. Total nonsense. I noticed you like to use that word a lot when you don't agree with somebody.

[guitarfool2002]

That part of the quote - "conceptually" - is being twisted, again intentionally, to criticize Mike Love.

That's nonsense. The twisting of the words, parsing of the words, finding any excuse to "interpret" them as something other than what they actually were up to and including suggesting he was misquoted came fast and furious as soon as people started to post reactions that didn't agree with Mike's commentary. Look at who is doing the most twisting, parsing, and filibustering in this thread as opposed to reading the words exactly as they appeared, and you'll see what happens when damage control tries and fails to smooth things out.

Like clockwork.

This thread is a perfect example of the hypocrisy that is rampant on this board, and you are leading the way. Again.

Thread after thread, post after post, the subject comes up about the Beach Boys' image of cars, girls, surfing, and fun in the sum-sum-summertime. And who is usually held responsible (blamed?) for that image? Well, that would be Mike Love, of course. Mike was the one who wrote the words, pushed the concepts on the group, and maybe even bullied Brian into going in that direction when he (Brian) didn't really want to. Yep, it was Mike Love all along. Blame him. It was HIS fault.

Then, now, Mike Love takes credit for it, takes credit for the very thing he is accused of on this board. But, instead of saying, "See, I told you they were his ideas, he was responsible, it was him", no, now you don't want to give him the credit. Now you want to take it away. Hey, guitarfool2012, you have a way with words. What's that called? Having it both ways?

Ahh, here we go, hypocrisy, double standard, etc. I'm the hypocrite on the board, yet again. Prove it. Then we can talk about some hypocrisy on this board hardly anyone knows about. Make sure you check on that carefully before opening that Pandora's Box.

On topic: When The Beach Boys were getting slaughtered in the late 60's for that image of surf-sun-cars-girls, when all of the things that made them superstars were really getting criticized and dismissed, where was Mike Love to defend it publicly?

Guess I shouldn't expect a reply to this.

Sorry, I'm late on that. Nonsense. Total nonsense. I noticed you like to use that word a lot when you don't agree with somebody.

So you have nothing to back up the statement that I'm the face of hypocrisy, i.e. "leading the way" on this board?

Get off the pot, Sheriff.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Exactly GF, all these guys would defend Mike against reality itself. He'll even if Mike hung out with the Manson crew.

Hey, guitarfool2012, aren't you and rab2591 supposed to respond to this? And this has what to do with the conversation at hand? Nevermind, I did it for you. I didn't expect you to.

[rab2591]

That part of the quote - "conceptually" - is being twisted, again intentionally, to criticize Mike Love.

That's nonsense. The twisting of the words, parsing of the words, finding any excuse to "interpret" them as something other than what they actually were up to and including suggesting he was misquoted came fast and furious as soon as people started to post reactions that didn't agree with Mike's commentary. Look at who is doing the most twisting, parsing, and filibustering in this thread as opposed to reading the words exactly as they appeared, and you'll see what happens when damage control tries and fails to smooth things out.

Like clockwork.

This thread is a perfect example of the hypocrisy that is rampant on this board, and you are leading the way. Again.

Thread after thread, post after post, the subject comes up about the Beach Boys' image of cars, girls, surfing, and fun in the sum-sum-summertime. And who is usually held responsible (blamed?) for that image? Well, that would be Mike Love, of course. Mike was the one who wrote the words, pushed the concepts on the group, and maybe even bullied Brian into going in that direction when he (Brian) didn't really want to. Yep, it was Mike Love all along. Blame him. It was HIS fault.

Then, now, Mike Love takes credit for it, takes credit for the very thing he is accused of on this board. But, instead of saying, "See, I told you they were his ideas, he was responsible, it was him", no, now you don't want to give him the credit. Now you want to take it away. Hey, guitarfool2012, you have a way with words. What's that called? Having it both ways?

Mike singing pretty much solely about the fun-sun/surf concepts 150+ times a year is why some people here dislike him...

Apparently Brian Wilson doesn't mind! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4

And this has to do what with the conversation at hand?

Looks like Jack just came back into the room...

(dig that obscure reference...)

What does Mike singing about fun/sun/surf concepts 150+ times a year have to do with the conversation?

You made the absolutely ridiculous argument that people on this board dislike Mike for supposedly creating the concept of surfing/cars/fun-in-the-sun. I was clearing up your obvious confusion as to why many people here dislike Mike when it comes to fun-in-the-sun material - more to do with him singing these songs to death rather than his supposed hand in creating these concepts.

[SMiLE Brian]

Well said Rab! For a man who has everything, Mike is a wreched human being to his so called songwriting partner, Brian Wilson. Mike don't bite the hand that feeds and saved you from selling used cars for a living.

[Sheriff John Stone]

That part of the quote - "conceptually" - is being twisted, again intentionally, to criticize Mike Love.

That's nonsense. The twisting of the words, parsing of the words, finding any excuse to "interpret" them as something other than what they actually were up to and including suggesting he was misquoted came fast and furious as soon as people started to post reactions that didn't agree with Mike's commentary. Look at who is doing the most twisting, parsing, and filibustering in this thread as opposed to reading the words exactly as they appeared, and you'll see what happens when damage control tries and fails to smooth things out.

Like clockwork.

This thread is a perfect example of the hypocrisy that is rampant on this board, and you are leading the way. Again.

Thread after thread, post after post, the subject comes up about the Beach Boys' image of cars, girls, surfing, and fun in the sum-sum-summertime. And who is usually held responsible (blamed?) for that image? Well, that would be Mike Love, of course. Mike was the one who wrote the words, pushed the concepts on the group, and maybe even bullied Brian into going in that direction when he (Brian) didn't really want to. Yep, it was Mike Love all along. Blame him. It was HIS fault.

Then, now, Mike Love takes credit for it, takes credit for the very thing he is accused of on this board. But, instead of saying, "See, I told you they were his ideas, he was responsible, it was him", no, now you don't want to give him the credit. Now you want to take it away. Hey, guitarfool2012, you have a way with words. What's that called? Having it both ways?

Ahh, here we go, hypocrisy, double standard, etc. I'm the hypocrite on the board, yet again. Prove it. Then we can talk about some hypocrisy on this board hardly anyone knows about. Make sure you check on that carefully before opening that Pandora's Box.

On topic: When The Beach Boys were getting slaughtered in the late 60's for that image of surf-sun-cars-girls, when all of the things that made them superstars were really getting criticized and dismissed, where was Mike Love to defend it publicly?

Guess I shouldn't expect a reply to this.

Sorry, I'm late on that. Nonsense. Total nonsense. I noticed you like to use that word a lot when you don't agree with somebody.

So you have nothing to back up the statement that I'm the face of hypocrisy, i.e. "leading the way" on this board?

Get off the pot, Sheriff.

Yes sir. When a moderator tells a poster to "get off the pot", well, I listen. You know, coming from a moderator and everything. Yes, sir.

[Howard Beale]

Randell Kirsch was fired by Mike Love a few weeks ago and replaced by Brian Eichenberger, who was poached from The Brian Wilson Band. Randell Kirsch was the bassist and falsetto singer for the Mike and Bruce show, and was fired for no reason other than Mike Love’s lunatic obsession with his cousin Brian Wilson and woe is us. We’re in a lot of trouble.  So a tall, bass playing falsetto singer was fired. What has that got to do with the price of rice, right? And why is that woe to us?

Gather round, friends and Kokodopes.

Many of us have spent much hard earned quid over the years seeing the touring band, and Randell Kirsch was a constant presence - a good vocalist, a good bass player and a better person who was popular, personable and accessible to many of us. The fact is, we are being lied to. The truth is not that Randell left for some unnamed opportunities (Papa Doo Ron Ron, anyone?), no, he was fired for no other reason other than Love, having an opportunity to stick it to his cousin yet again (and no opportunity to do so is ever wasted), even at the expense of a good musician and even better man like Randell Kirsch.  

And what happened during the interim on SmileySmile? The gang of Club Kokomo propagandists sprinted out of The Vibe Room and tried to spin it that Randell decided to waltz out of the touring BB door into the sub-tribute band world.  More attempts at a history rewrite.  Again. And now, after almost 50 years, we are supposed to believe that it was Love's concept that changed Good Vibrations from a song about dogs to a boy/girl song, completely ignoring the fact that Tony Asher had already written a set of lyrics that were specifically boy/girl, and completely ignoring the fact that Love dictated the lyrics to his wife in the car on the way to the vocal session, a story that Love himself has told ad nauseum. And to top it all off, now we are being told by Mr. Love that he was the “dominant creative force” in conceptions and lyrics in that relationship. And his propagandists now are pushing us the Good Vibrations was a Love concept, rescued by Love from becoming a song about dogs feeling vibrations! They will try and sell any shite that you will buy, as if anyone sane would buy into the circuitous drivel and pretzel logic spewed out by Mr. Cruz and his cohorts in propaganda - I don’t have to name them, you know who they are. All you have to do is be able to read the English language. They will tell you “Pisces Brothers” is seminal, they will tell you Stamos matters, they will tell you that Mike is the dominant creative force, they will tell you that Mike is the real genius behind the group, they will tell you any shite that they think you will believe, partially because the historian who won’t tell you he is indeed working on Mike’s autobiography and attempting to rewrite history for this book says it is so, and partially because they think they can get away with it. It's all about controlling information, specifically on these boards. For some here, the only truth you know is what you read right here. There is a whole generation of fans who don't know anything that doesn't come off the internet and publications like ESQ. This board is the gospel, the ultimate revelation, and is the most awesome gosh darn source in the whole godless Beach Boys world, and that's why woe is us if it ever falls into the hands of zealots, and who knows what kind of shite will be peddled for truth on this website. They will tell you exactly any shite they want you to hear, they will tell you that Mike is the genius behind the group, they will tell you that he is the dominant creative force, they will tell you it was Mike who has kept the group alive all these years, they will tell you that Good Vibrations would not have been a hit record if it weren't for Mike's lyrics and none of it is true. It’s all an illusion - none of it is true.

Put on Pet Sounds. Turn out all the lights and listen all the way through. Then play Summer in Paradise and do the same. Then tell me who was the dominant "creative" force.

[guitarfool2002]

That part of the quote - "conceptually" - is being twisted, again intentionally, to criticize Mike Love.

That's nonsense. The twisting of the words, parsing of the words, finding any excuse to "interpret" them as something other than what they actually were up to and including suggesting he was misquoted came fast and furious as soon as people started to post reactions that didn't agree with Mike's commentary. Look at who is doing the most twisting, parsing, and filibustering in this thread as opposed to reading the words exactly as they appeared, and you'll see what happens when damage control tries and fails to smooth things out.

Like clockwork.

This thread is a perfect example of the hypocrisy that is rampant on this board, and you are leading the way. Again.

Thread after thread, post after post, the subject comes up about the Beach Boys' image of cars, girls, surfing, and fun in the sum-sum-summertime. And who is usually held responsible (blamed?) for that image? Well, that would be Mike Love, of course. Mike was the one who wrote the words, pushed the concepts on the group, and maybe even bullied Brian into going in that direction when he (Brian) didn't really want to. Yep, it was Mike Love all along. Blame him. It was HIS fault.

Then, now, Mike Love takes credit for it, takes credit for the very thing he is accused of on this board. But, instead of saying, "See, I told you they were his ideas, he was responsible, it was him", no, now you don't want to give him the credit. Now you want to take it away. Hey, guitarfool2012, you have a way with words. What's that called? Having it both ways?

Ahh, here we go, hypocrisy, double standard, etc. I'm the hypocrite on the board, yet again. Prove it. Then we can talk about some hypocrisy on this board hardly anyone knows about. Make sure you check on that carefully before opening that Pandora's Box.

On topic: When The Beach Boys were getting slaughtered in the late 60's for that image of surf-sun-cars-girls, when all of the things that made them superstars were really getting criticized and dismissed, where was Mike Love to defend it publicly?

Guess I shouldn't expect a reply to this.

Sorry, I'm late on that. Nonsense. Total nonsense. I noticed you like to use that word a lot when you don't agree with somebody.

So you have nothing to back up the statement that I'm the face of hypocrisy, i.e. "leading the way" on this board?

Get off the pot, Sheriff.

Yes sir. When a moderator tells a poster to "get off the pot", well, I listen. You know, coming from a moderator and everything. Yes, sir.

You called me a hypocrite, back it up. Simple as that. You haven't done that, and instead are getting into taking shots at me. If it hadn't been done by others on this forum before, I'd see it differently. But it's the last vestige of those who can't back up what they say.

Nice job proving that in real time, Sheriff.

[Mike's Beard]

Randell Kirsch was fired by Mike Love a few weeks ago and replaced by Brian Eichenberger, who was poached from The Brian Wilson Band. Randell Kirsch was the bassist and falsetto singer for the Mike and Bruce show, and was fired for no reason other than Mike Love’s lunatic obsession with his cousin Brian Wilson and woe is us. We’re in a lot of trouble.  So a tall, bass playing falsetto singer was fired. What has that got to do with the price of rice, right? And why is that woe to us?

Gather round, friends and Kokodopes.

Many of us have spent much hard earned quid over the years seeing the touring band, and Randell Kirsch was a constant presence - a good vocalist, a good bass player and a better person who was popular, personable and accessible to many of us. The fact is, we are being lied to. The truth is not that Randell left for some unnamed opportunities (Papa Doo Ron Ron, anyone?), no, he was fired for no other reason other than Love, having an opportunity to stick it to his cousin yet again (and no opportunity to do so is ever wasted), even at the expense of a good musician and even better man like Randell Kirsch.  

And what happened during the interim on SmileySmile? The gang of Club Kokomo propagandists sprinted out of The Vibe Room and tried to spin it that Randell decided to waltz out of the touring BB door into the sub-tribute band world.  More attempts at a history rewrite.  Again. And now, after almost 50 years, we are supposed to believe that it was Love's concept that changed Good Vibrations from a song about dogs to a boy/girl song, completely ignoring the fact that Tony Asher had already written a set of lyrics that were specifically boy/girl, and completely ignoring the fact that Love dictated the lyrics to his wife in the car on the way to the vocal session, a story that Love himself has told ad nauseum. And to top it all off, now we are being told by Mr. Love that he was the “dominant creative force” in conceptions and lyrics in that relationship. And his propagandists now are pushing us the Good Vibrations was a Love concept, rescued by Love from becoming a song about dogs feeling vibrations! They will try and sell any shite that you will buy, as if anyone sane would buy into the circuitous drivel and pretzel logic spewed out by Mr. Cruz and his cohorts in propaganda - I don’t have to name them, you know who they are. All you have to do is be able to read the English language. They will tell you “Pisces Brothers” is seminal, they will tell you Stamos matters, they will tell you that Mike is the dominant creative force, they will tell you that Mike is the real genius behind the group, they will tell you any shite that they think you will believe, partially because the historian who won’t tell you he is indeed working on Mike’s autobiography and attempting to rewrite history for this book says it is so, and partially because they think they can get away with it. It's all about controlling information, specifically on these boards. For some here, the only truth you know is what you read right here. There is a whole generation of fans who don't know anything that doesn't come off the internet and publications like ESQ. This board is the gospel, the ultimate revelation, and is the most awesome gosh darn source in the whole godless Beach Boys world, and that's why woe is us if it ever falls into the hands of zealots, and who knows what kind of shite will be peddled for truth on this website. They will tell you exactly any shite they want you to hear, they will tell you that Mike is the genius behind the group, they will tell you that he is the dominant creative force, they will tell you it was Mike who has kept the group alive all these years, they will tell you that Good Vibrations would not have been a hit record if it weren't for Mike's lyrics and none of it is true. It’s all an illusion - none of it is true.

Put on Pet Sounds. Turn out all the lights and listen all the way through. Then play Summer in Paradise and do the same. Then tell me who was the dominant "creative" force.

Someone needs a long lie down.....

[Howie Edelson]

Hey Sheriff --

Remember that time today when I wrote Mike Love’s supporters on this board always end up spending weeks arguing semantics (e.g. what words REALLY mean), this thread has become that now, too.

Didn't know if you knew what I meant.

[Sheriff John Stone]

That part of the quote - "conceptually" - is being twisted, again intentionally, to criticize Mike Love.

That's nonsense. The twisting of the words, parsing of the words, finding any excuse to "interpret" them as something other than what they actually were up to and including suggesting he was misquoted came fast and furious as soon as people started to post reactions that didn't agree with Mike's commentary. Look at who is doing the most twisting, parsing, and filibustering in this thread as opposed to reading the words exactly as they appeared, and you'll see what happens when damage control tries and fails to smooth things out.

Like clockwork.

This thread is a perfect example of the hypocrisy that is rampant on this board, and you are leading the way. Again.

Thread after thread, post after post, the subject comes up about the Beach Boys' image of cars, girls, surfing, and fun in the sum-sum-summertime. And who is usually held responsible (blamed?) for that image? Well, that would be Mike Love, of course. Mike was the one who wrote the words, pushed the concepts on the group, and maybe even bullied Brian into going in that direction when he (Brian) didn't really want to. Yep, it was Mike Love all along. Blame him. It was HIS fault.

Then, now, Mike Love takes credit for it, takes credit for the very thing he is accused of on this board. But, instead of saying, "See, I told you they were his ideas, he was responsible, it was him", no, now you don't want to give him the credit. Now you want to take it away. Hey, guitarfool2012, you have a way with words. What's that called? Having it both ways?

Ahh, here we go, hypocrisy, double standard, etc. I'm the hypocrite on the board, yet again. Prove it. Then we can talk about some hypocrisy on this board hardly anyone knows about. Make sure you check on that carefully before opening that Pandora's Box.

On topic: When The Beach Boys were getting slaughtered in the late 60's for that image of surf-sun-cars-girls, when all of the things that made them superstars were really getting criticized and dismissed, where was Mike Love to defend it publicly?

Guess I shouldn't expect a reply to this.

Sorry, I'm late on that. Nonsense. Total nonsense. I noticed you like to use that word a lot when you don't agree with somebody.

So you have nothing to back up the statement that I'm the face of hypocrisy, i.e. "leading the way" on this board?

Get off the pot, Sheriff.

Yes sir. When a moderator tells a poster to "get off the pot", well, I listen. You know, coming from a moderator and everything. Yes, sir.

You called me a hypocrite, back it up. Simple as that. You haven't done that, and instead are getting into taking shots at me. If it hadn't been done by others on this forum before, I'd see it differently. But it's the last vestige of those who can't back up what they say.

Nice job proving that in real time, Sheriff.

You can challenge me, and threaten me. But, if I tell you what I really think, you would ban me. And, even if I did post it, you wouldn't get it anyway. Not my posts, but YOUR posts, prove that.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Randell Kirsch was fired by Mike Love a few weeks ago and replaced by Brian Eichenberger, who was poached from The Brian Wilson Band. Randell Kirsch was the bassist and falsetto singer for the Mike and Bruce show, and was fired for no reason other than Mike Love’s lunatic obsession with his cousin Brian Wilson and woe is us. We’re in a lot of trouble.  So a tall, bass playing falsetto singer was fired. What has that got to do with the price of rice, right? And why is that woe to us?

Gather round, friends and Kokodopes.

Many of us have spent much hard earned quid over the years seeing the touring band, and Randell Kirsch was a constant presence - a good vocalist, a good bass player and a better person who was popular, personable and accessible to many of us. The fact is, we are being lied to. The truth is not that Randell left for some unnamed opportunities (Papa Doo Ron Ron, anyone?), no, he was fired for no other reason other than Love, having an opportunity to stick it to his cousin yet again (and no opportunity to do so is ever wasted), even at the expense of a good musician and even better man like Randell Kirsch.  

And what happened during the interim on SmileySmile? The gang of Club Kokomo propagandists sprinted out of The Vibe Room and tried to spin it that Randell decided to waltz out of the touring BB door into the sub-tribute band world.  More attempts at a history rewrite.  Again. And now, after almost 50 years, we are supposed to believe that it was Love's concept that changed Good Vibrations from a song about dogs to a boy/girl song, completely ignoring the fact that Tony Asher had already written a set of lyrics that were specifically boy/girl, and completely ignoring the fact that Love dictated the lyrics to his wife in the car on the way to the vocal session, a story that Love himself has told ad nauseum. And to top it all off, now we are being told by Mr. Love that he was the “dominant creative force” in conceptions and lyrics in that relationship. And his propagandists now are pushing us the Good Vibrations was a Love concept, rescued by Love from becoming a song about dogs feeling vibrations! They will try and sell any shite that you will buy, as if anyone sane would buy into the circuitous drivel and pretzel logic spewed out by Mr. Cruz and his cohorts in propaganda - I don’t have to name them, you know who they are. All you have to do is be able to read the English language. They will tell you “Pisces Brothers” is seminal, they will tell you Stamos matters, they will tell you that Mike is the dominant creative force, they will tell you that Mike is the real genius behind the group, they will tell you any shite that they think you will believe, partially because the historian who won’t tell you he is indeed working on Mike’s autobiography and attempting to rewrite history for this book says it is so, and partially because they think they can get away with it. It's all about controlling information, specifically on these boards. For some here, the only truth you know is what you read right here. There is a whole generation of fans who don't know anything that doesn't come off the internet and publications like ESQ. This board is the gospel, the ultimate revelation, and is the most awesome gosh darn source in the whole godless Beach Boys world, and that's why woe is us if it ever falls into the hands of zealots, and who knows what kind of shite will be peddled for truth on this website. They will tell you exactly any shite they want you to hear, they will tell you that Mike is the genius behind the group, they will tell you that he is the dominant creative force, they will tell you it was Mike who has kept the group alive all these years, they will tell you that Good Vibrations would not have been a hit record if it weren't for Mike's lyrics and none of it is true. It’s all an illusion - none of it is true.

Put on Pet Sounds. Turn out all the lights and listen all the way through. Then play Summer in Paradise and do the same. Then tell me who was the dominant "creative" force.

 

[guitarfool2002]

You can challenge me, and threaten me. But, if I tell you what I really think, you would ban me. And, even if I did post it, you wouldn't get it anyway. Not my posts, but YOUR posts, prove that.

Prove it. Not make excuses for what you think would happen, not make bogus claims that you'd be banned, not do any of the other spinning and twisting to argue against you actually backing up your claims, but prove it.

Of course that's also yet another tactic to use when things start going opposite of the way you'd like them to be. When the opinions aren't being swayed fast enough or opinions aren't being changed to suit your view of the world - or in this case your views on what was said versus what you'd like others to believe was actually said - then it's time to distract and divert, to filibuster and bring in all kinds of other issues to generate arguments on those rather than face the actual topic at hand.

If proving it means taking this thread into a direction where you're leveling bullshit charges and claims against me in order to divert from the fact you cannot change opinions about the topic at hand based on what you'd like them to assume, or when a sow's ear can't be turned into a silk purse, maybe you should stay seated on the pot as long as you want. We'll talk about the topic and consider your claims of hypocrisy against me as the empty claims they are and always have been.

Now to this nonsense, where did I threaten you? These claims are ridiculous, Sheriff.

[Theydon Bois]

Sure Mike is a bragger - if I'd co-written 4 US #1s I'd be braggin too! Is he not allowed to take pride in what he has accomplished when giving interviews?

On this point, it is sort of amazing that someone who for more than fifty years has had the job of singing the words "Well I'm not bragging babe so don't put me down" night after night still hasn't picked up on the causal link between his bragging and other people putting him down.

[Mike's Beard]

I wonder if the irony is lost on him?

[Autotune]

Yet another lovely thread about which surviving BB (or who among their defenders) has a bigger penis.

I regret that on the TWGMTR album, it was Brian who came up with the concept of Spring Vacation and the lyric "easy money, ain't life funny". The fun we could have had here had Mike come up with that. Too bad he was not a dominant conceptual creative force for that one.

I have no big problem with Mike's bragging and his issues with his family, his past and his role in the band. It's his life and his mind, it does me no harm. He does promotional interviews for his +100 shows a year; we read them all, the casual reader has not read one. Move on.

My problem is with the crocodile tears cried by many here who, knowing better, pretend to infer from Mike's assertion that he incurred in the blasphemy of minimizing the creative genius of Brian Wilson. Pure bullshit. Hypocrisy means purportedly saying the oposite of what one thinks. I can't take seriously some posts in here from knowledgeable people who seem to infer from that interview that Brian's musical genius has been attacked.

[Cam Mott]

Let's get back to accusing each other of not understanding English.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

That part of the quote - "conceptually" - is being twisted, again intentionally, to criticize Mike Love.

That's nonsense. The twisting of the words, parsing of the words, finding any excuse to "interpret" them as something other than what they actually were up to and including suggesting he was misquoted came fast and furious as soon as people started to post reactions that didn't agree with Mike's commentary. Look at who is doing the most twisting, parsing, and filibustering in this thread as opposed to reading the words exactly as they appeared, and you'll see what happens when damage control tries and fails to smooth things out.

Like clockwork.

This thread is a perfect example of the hypocrisy that is rampant on this board, and you are leading the way. Again.

Thread after thread, post after post, the subject comes up about the Beach Boys' image of cars, girls, surfing, and fun in the sum-sum-summertime. And who is usually held responsible (blamed?) for that image? Well, that would be Mike Love, of course. Mike was the one who wrote the words, pushed the concepts on the group, and maybe even bullied Brian into going in that direction when he (Brian) didn't really want to. Yep, it was Mike Love all along. Blame him. It was HIS fault.

Then, now, Mike Love takes credit for it, takes credit for the very thing he is accused of on this board. But, instead of saying, "See, I told you they were his ideas, he was responsible, it was him", no, now you don't want to give him the credit. Now you want to take it away. Hey, guitarfool2012, you have a way with words. What's that called? Having it both ways?

Ahh, here we go, hypocrisy, double standard, etc. I'm the hypocrite on the board, yet again. Prove it. Then we can talk about some hypocrisy on this board hardly anyone knows about. Make sure you check on that carefully before opening that Pandora's Box.

On topic: When The Beach Boys were getting slaughtered in the late 60's for that image of surf-sun-cars-girls, when all of the things that made them superstars were really getting criticized and dismissed, where was Mike Love to defend it publicly?

Guess I shouldn't expect a reply to this.

Sorry, I'm late on that. Nonsense. Total nonsense. I noticed you like to use that word a lot when you don't agree with somebody.

So you have nothing to back up the statement that I'm the face of hypocrisy, i.e. "leading the way" on this board?

Get off the pot, Sheriff.

Yes sir. When a moderator tells a poster to "get off the pot", well, I listen. You know, coming from a moderator and everything. Yes, sir.

You called me a hypocrite, back it up. Simple as that. You haven't done that, and instead are getting into taking shots at me. If it hadn't been done by others on this forum before, I'd see it differently. But it's the last vestige of those who can't back up what they say.

Nice job proving that in real time, Sheriff.

You can challenge me, and threaten me. But, if I tell you what I really think, you would ban me. And, even if I did post it, you wouldn't get it anyway. Not my posts, but YOUR posts, prove that.

Tried to stay out of this, but hell. You took a swipe at GF, called him a hypocrite, and now refuse to back it up. If you have something to say, then say it. Tell you what, if you continue with this, you don't have to worry about him banning you, cause I'd have already done it. Say what you meant, or better yet discuss it privately with h8m, just quit clogging up the board with this garbage.

I spend a lot of time defending Mike when he's unfairly attacked (same with Brian, or anybody ) and crap like this is why it's so damn difficult. I'm supposed to be working right now yet I'm putting my job on the line dealing with this childish fuckery. Gloves are about to come off.

[CenturyDeprived]

That part of the quote - "conceptually" - is being twisted, again intentionally, to criticize Mike Love.

That's nonsense. The twisting of the words, parsing of the words, finding any excuse to "interpret" them as something other than what they actually were up to and including suggesting he was misquoted came fast and furious as soon as people started to post reactions that didn't agree with Mike's commentary. Look at who is doing the most twisting, parsing, and filibustering in this thread as opposed to reading the words exactly as they appeared, and you'll see what happens when damage control tries and fails to smooth things out.

Like clockwork.

This thread is a perfect example of the hypocrisy that is rampant on this board, and you are leading the way. Again.

Thread after thread, post after post, the subject comes up about the Beach Boys' image of cars, girls, surfing, and fun in the sum-sum-summertime. And who is usually held responsible (blamed?) for that image? Well, that would be Mike Love, of course. Mike was the one who wrote the words, pushed the concepts on the group, and maybe even bullied Brian into going in that direction when he (Brian) didn't really want to. Yep, it was Mike Love all along. Blame him. It was HIS fault.

Then, now, Mike Love takes credit for it, takes credit for the very thing he is accused of on this board. But, instead of saying, "See, I told you they were his ideas, he was responsible, it was him", no, now you don't want to give him the credit. Now you want to take it away. Hey, guitarfool2012, you have a way with words. What's that called? Having it both ways?

I know this post wasn't addressed to me but firstly I am prepared to admit openly that I consider Mike wanted to maintain the concept of Endless Summer type material. Had Mike said 'I was the main lyricist for a large part of the Beach Boys' career and the idea of Endless Summer type songs was mine' I'd have found this perfectly acceptable. Mike deliberately phrased this in a way that suggested he was creatively more significant than Brian and THAT is what I take exception to.

That is common sense, absolutely. Yet whatever it was about that phrase and the reaction to it has led to those who legitimately did take exception to it (and can lay out reasons why) now being tagged with having an "anti-Mike bias", with hypocrisy, any number of other charges, and have had to read through 10+ pages of attempts to parse and perform surgery on the actual words spoken in order to "explain" or "interpret" the meaning intended versus what was actually said.

And the really sad part of all that is had the words been chosen more carefully, had they been phrased just a bit differently, none of the explanations and defenses and parsing-spinning would have happened. It could have been a positive, but that's not how it played out. Unfortunately that's usually not how it plays out over the past few years, and that is a total mystery why it continues to happen. It doesn't need to.

It is sad isn't it. And it doesn't need to be. But, why is it so? Well, maybe because when Brian is interviewed and says something that is totally untrue (and there are times it can be factually proven), many people on this board take the position, "Oh, that's just Brian being being Brian. Funny guy. And, (cough) well, we know he's had some problems..."  But, when Mike says something, well, it has to be totally torn apart, word for word, and turned it into a multi-page Mike bashing fest. I guess THAT has to be.

Does Brian say Mike is controlled? Does Brian publicly take backhanded swipes at the people Mike works with? Does Brian decry auto-tune in Mike's solo output before he even fucking hears the music? When Brian is asked "what things do you regret from you past?" he doesn't respond by bitching about things Mike did back in the day. THAT is why people dislike Mike. That is why there is a definite anti-Mike slant on the board. Brian gets something factually wrong, it probably is due to him being forgetful. Yet Brian is always humble, always kind to his cousin and brothers when being interviewed. Mike on the other hand proves he is completely tactless in nearly every interview - whether its him being boastful, or him taking pot-shots at Brian and his management.

This times 1000.

I don't think ANYONE can argue that Mike is the most tactless BB member, relatively speaking. Nobody even comes close.

[CenturyDeprived]

That part of the quote - "conceptually" - is being twisted, again intentionally, to criticize Mike Love.

That's nonsense. The twisting of the words, parsing of the words, finding any excuse to "interpret" them as something other than what they actually were up to and including suggesting he was misquoted came fast and furious as soon as people started to post reactions that didn't agree with Mike's commentary. Look at who is doing the most twisting, parsing, and filibustering in this thread as opposed to reading the words exactly as they appeared, and you'll see what happens when damage control tries and fails to smooth things out.

Like clockwork.

This thread is a perfect example of the hypocrisy that is rampant on this board, and you are leading the way. Again.

Thread after thread, post after post, the subject comes up about the Beach Boys' image of cars, girls, surfing, and fun in the sum-sum-summertime. And who is usually held responsible (blamed?) for that image? Well, that would be Mike Love, of course. Mike was the one who wrote the words, pushed the concepts on the group, and maybe even bullied Brian into going in that direction when he (Brian) didn't really want to. Yep, it was Mike Love all along. Blame him. It was HIS fault.

Then, now, Mike Love takes credit for it, takes credit for the very thing he is accused of on this board. But, instead of saying, "See, I told you they were his ideas, he was responsible, it was him", no, now you don't want to give him the credit. Now you want to take it away. Hey, guitarfool2012, you have a way with words. What's that called? Having it both ways?

Heya Sheriff - Mike is getting criticized for using the statement ALWAYS in relation to dominance for concepts/lyrics in a songwriting relationship. While it's fair to point out that many people unfairly "blame" Mike for a lot of things (when in fact it's more complicated than any one person's "fault"), I don't think your statement has airtight logic. Who is "blaming" Mike for writing awesome lyrics like The Warmth of the Sun or Kiss Me Baby or Please Let Me Wonder? Nobody, that's who. Mike did not entirely and wholly write or dominate with concepts about sun/fun, despite a large chunk of material being of that nature. He also wrote rad lyrics and contributed/co-contributed rad concepts about other topics that nobody "complains" about him having written about.

It's shades of grey, not black and white... MUCH like it's shades of grey and surely not black and white regarding Mike ALWAYS being the dominant lyrical/concept guy in his and Brian's relationship. It's just an overreaching statement to say things in absolutes, and nobody should try to defend that Mike is correct in making such an absolute, extremist claim. His words are being picked apart for a legit reason!

To admit that he's probably exaggerating to an extent is not to vilify the man. His words can (and do) have a partial element of truth to them, but that doesn't mean they don't also go too far in stretching the truth. I feel like because he is vilified for a lot of reasons (many of which are unfair/exaggerated), some people have adopted an inability to admit that he is exaggerating/overreaching in this instance, just to somehow "help him out" on the overall big-picture defense front.

[sea of tunes]

Murry Wilson: "Brian, I'm a genius too".

M.E. Love: "But lyrically and conceptually, I was always the dominant creative force in that relationship.

Eugene Landy: "(Speaking of his business partnership with BDW) "Brains & Genius; Brains is Brian with the 'i' and 'a' reversed and Genius is...obvious".

Juxtapose those with...

Brian Wilson: "I'm not a genius.  I'm just a hard working guy".  

What do all those men have in common, Brian Wilson.  All, in their own way were either abusive, jealous or manipulative of the one thing they all had in common, Brian Wilson.  It's so striking that in their own way each man wanted to lay some claim to what Brian had in his soul.  Luckily, as I said way earlier in this thread (quoting Churchill) "History is written by the victors".  And Brian Wilson is a winner and survivor.

M.E. Love made fine contributions to the Beach Boys and their music and some pretty awful one's too.  His deep down desire to "smell the greasepaint" was his ultimate undoing because of his unwillingness to grow as a musician.  He saw himself as a performer, not an artist.  The Wilson brothers largely viewed themselves as artists.  Those two competing factions couldn't go on forever and eventually M.E. Love won the battle and settled the Beach Boys down into what they have been for nearly 30 years.  

[Moon Dawg]

  I think a lot of this stems from the many years back, when Mike Love went uncredited on so many tunes for which he'd written lyrics. Let's face it, that would  have stung any of us - rightly so. If Mike had gotten credit way back when, he might not need to endlessly trump himself in every interview he gives. A lot of rock critics would think more highly of Mike as an artist had his true lyrical input been known all those years ago.

  None of this should ignore the fact that Mike, like every other member of the band, has (or, sadly, had) issues. Has he learned nothing of PR these last 52 summers as a pop star of consequence? Or is Mike Love just another crazy Beach Boy?

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Murry Wilson: "Brian, I'm a genius too".

M.E. Love: "But lyrically and conceptually, I was always the dominant creative force in that relationship.

Eugene Landy: "(Speaking of his business partnership with BDW) "Brains & Genius; Brains is Brian with the 'i' and 'a' reversed and Genius is...obvious".

Juxtapose those with...

Brian Wilson: "I'm not a genius.  I'm just a hard working guy".  

What do all those men have in common, Brian Wilson.  All, in their own way were either abusive, jealous or manipulative of the one thing they all had in common, Brian Wilson.  It's so striking that in their own way each man wanted to lay some claim to what Brian had in his soul.  Luckily, as I said way earlier in this thread (quoting Churchill) "History is written by the victors".  And Brian Wilson is a winner and survivor.

M.E. Love made fine contributions to the Beach Boys and their music and some pretty awful one's too.  His deep down desire to "smell the greasepaint" was his ultimate undoing because of his unwillingness to grow as a musician.  He saw himself as a performer, not an artist.  The Wilson brothers largely viewed themselves as artists.  Those two competing factions couldn't go on forever and eventually M.E. Love won the battle and settled the Beach Boys down into what they have been for nearly 30 years.  

LuHv won what battle? To become a travelling oldies mahajukebox tribute band with one original member? Man, those are some real spoils goin' on there. What an absolute boring concept.