Weakest Song On Pet Sounds/Smile?

[runnersdialzero]

Give it a rest, bub. Your excuse of "I don't know Al Vescovo" comes off as kind of dumb. If Brian was so "generous", then why wasn't he listed last on all the other songs he wrote?

If the guy who is given the absolute first credit in the songwriting credit says it was mostly his song and Brian produced it and maybe did a bit with the arrangement, well, does that really seem like such a far-fetched story?

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Give it a rest, bub. Your excuse of "I don't know Al Vescovo" comes off as kind of dumb. If Brian was so "generous", then why wasn't he listed last on all the other songs he wrote?

If the guy who is given the absolute first credit in the songwriting credit says it was mostly his song and Brian produced it and maybe did a bit with the arrangement, well, does that really seem like such a far-fetched story?

Bud, and or dude, -claiming to have written a Beach Boy song and not be fully credited is kinda a big deal.  Just ask Mike Love.

What's curious is that you have nothing better to do that jump into a discussion you have no information on whatsoever.  In other words, your talking out your a s.s.
I bet your one of the Bubs who believes Carol Kaye's claims.

Just for you edification, Brian is listed last as is the standard alphabetical practice for publishing in years past - "Wilson".  The DH credits aren't alphabetical.

I will log into ASCAP and see what they have listed for % of credits.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

It's clearly a Brian Wilson  productio.

And it's a steel guitar tune with ukulele and light keyboard accompaniment. The  solo uke part is just a standard turnaround followed by the same chord progression as the rest of the song.

 I think Al's name is listed first (and Brian's last) for a reason.

Give it a rest, bub. Your excuse of "I don't know Al Vescovo" comes off as kind of dumb. If Brian was so "generous", then why wasn't he listed last on all the other songs he wrote?

If the guy who is given the absolute first credit in the songwriting credit says it was mostly his song and Brian produced it and maybe did a bit with the arrangement, well, does that really seem like such a far-fetched story?

Give it a rest, bub. Your excuse of "I don't know Al Vescovo" comes off as kind of dumb. If Brian was so "generous", then why wasn't he listed last on all the other songs he wrote?

If the guy who is given the absolute first credit in the songwriting credit says it was mostly his song and Brian produced it and maybe did a bit with the arrangement, well, does that really seem like such a far-fetched story?

I'm told Jim Ackley was the an engineer on the session. Helped Brian get the reverb sound; so Brian gave him a writers credit it seems.  So the theory of why Brian's name comes last doesn't hold water in this case. (writing this as I overlook Diamond Head in Waikiki).

[bossaroo]

It's clearly a Brian Wilson  productio.

And it's a steel guitar tune with ukulele and light keyboard accompaniment. The  solo uke part is just a standard turnaround followed by the same chord progression as the rest of the song.

 I think Al's name is listed first (and Brian's last) for a reason.

Maybe cause Brian is a sweet and generous man.  I do the same thing on my songs - usually always put my name last.

It's not a unique chord progression - it's the style and flair of the steel guitar playing.

So what's your proof besides your claim that 'you say' Al says he wrote the song.  He doesn't claim to on his website.

You'll find all the same 'chords' here and 100's of Hawaiian steel guitar songs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s0K8TCMjGA

Brian is sweet and generous. So is Al for letting everyone else share a credit.

You're right... it's not a unique chord progression. Al said he came up with it on the spot, and he didn't really seem very proud of it. It's fairly standard stuff.

'I don't say' that Al wrote it... this is what Al himself told me. I wish I still had the email he sent, but it was over a decade ago and was deleted by Hotmail before I thought to save it.

unfortunately Al is no longer with us to verify the tale or give any more insight into the session.

[cablegeddon]

Weakest song PS/Smile -> Our Prayer. It just sounds like the standard thing any given vocal group would throw together as an intro to their act. Sorry!

It has a "sound" that had been done before, in a sense, but "thrown together"? You f*ckin' kidding me, here? Show me any other pop music composer in the 60s, especially one who'd been criticized as a mere dipshit who could only find success after ripping off an old rock 'n' roll number a mere THREE YEARS PRIOR, who could construct something as intricate and just flat out as good as "Our Prayer" and I'll show you a green dog.

Please forgive me. I'm still thinking "high school teacher throws together an opening for the choir to sing  to the Christmas pageant".

[hypehat]

Weakest song PS/Smile -> Our Prayer. It just sounds like the standard thing any given vocal group would throw together as an intro to their act. Sorry!

It has a "sound" that had been done before, in a sense, but "thrown together"? You f*ckin' kidding me, here? Show me any other pop music composer in the 60s, especially one who'd been criticized as a mere dipshit who could only find success after ripping off an old rock 'n' roll number a mere THREE YEARS PRIOR, who could construct something as intricate and just flat out as good as "Our Prayer" and I'll show you a green dog.

Please forgive me. I'm still thinking "high school teacher throws together an opening for the choir to sing  to the Christmas pageant".

You're absolutely insane.

[SMiLE Brian]

Weakest song PS/Smile -> Our Prayer. It just sounds like the standard thing any given vocal group would throw together as an intro to their act. Sorry!
Please forgive me because i have no taste.

So the truth comes out about your Smile disappointment...

[runnersdialzero]

Please forgive me. I'm still thinking "high school teacher throws together an opening for the choir to sing  to the Christmas pageant".

"Throws together"?

[runnersdialzero]

Bud, and or dude, -claiming to have written a Beach Boy song and not be fully credited is kinda a big deal.  Just ask Mike Love.

His name is first in the credits.

Just for you edification

My name is not Edification.

Brian is listed last as is the standard alphabetical practice for publishing in years past - "Wilson".  The DH credits aren't alphabetical.

Oh yeah, that totally explains why Mike Love's name goes ahead of Brian's on all the songs they wrote together.

What's curious is that you have nothing better to do that jump into a discussion you have no information on whatsoever.  In other words, your talking out your a s.s.

What "information" do you have that I don't? Do tell. I'm going by the guy who is given the first songwriting credit saying he wrote the basis of it and that the other people credited helped flesh it out. His story kinda checks out given he was there and his name is first in the credits, right?

"Your" the one saying, "I don't know this guy, I don't trust him, I just assume Brian Wilson did everything even though I wasn't there," which is textbook talking-out-the-ass imo.

I guess you're right about the part where you said I had no right to "jump into" the conversation, though. I mean, this isn't an internet messageboard and you didn't "jump into" the thread, either.

I will log into ASCAP and see what they have listed for % of credits.

Go for it, Chuckie.

[Ron]

This thread is like asking which one of the apostles is your least favorite.  And you can't pick Judas. 

[Ron]

The first Pet Sounds I had, I downloaded from Napster and the entire album was one track, no skipping.

AND THAT'S HOW IT'D STILL BE YOUNG WHIPPER SNAPPER IF THE GOT DAM CD HADNT BEEN INVENTED!!!!

LP's
8 Tracks
Cassette Tapes

all very hard to change tracks on.  You have to physically move instead of just pressing a button. 

[drbeachboy]

This thread is like asking which one of the apostles is your least favorite.  And you can't pick Judas.  

If it wasn't for Judas there wouldn't be Christianity. And yeah, this thread is useless.

[donald]

I've skipped over Don't Talk a few times.   Sometime seems to be a bit dreary and slow in the overall contest of the lp.  Doesn't make it a bad song buy any means though.


As for SMiLE?   Its ALL weird.  And ALL good.  In its own modular way.   Wouldn't even have a single  opinion for more than a minute.  I' still listening to the SMILE SESSIONS trying to absorb it all.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Bud, and or dude, -claiming to have written a Beach Boy song and not be fully credited is kinda a big deal.  Just ask Mike Love.

His name is first in the credits.

Just for you edification

My name is not Edification.

Brian is listed last as is the standard alphabetical practice for publishing in years past - "Wilson".  The DH credits aren't alphabetical.

Oh yeah, that totally explains why Mike Love's name goes ahead of Brian's on all the songs they wrote together.

What's curious is that you have nothing better to do that jump into a discussion you have no information on whatsoever.  In other words, your talking out your a s.s.

What "information" do you have that I don't? Do tell. I'm going by the guy who is given the first songwriting credit saying he wrote the basis of it and that the other people credited helped flesh it out. His story kinda checks out given he was there and his name is first in the credits, right?

"Your" the one saying, "I don't know this guy, I don't trust him, I just assume Brian Wilson did everything even though I wasn't there," which is textbook talking-out-the-ass imo.

I guess you're right about the part where you said I had no right to "jump into" the conversation, though. I mean, this isn't an internet messageboard and you didn't "jump into" the thread, either.

I will log into ASCAP and see what they have listed for % of credits.

Go for it, Chuckie.

Yawn!
Does Bubbie have ANYTHING intelligent to add here? Because it's obvious my comments are beyond your comprehension. You seem to take issue with my 'factual statement' that four people are credited with writing the song, not solely Al Vescovo. and that someone saying Al Vescovo wrote the song doesn't make it so.  In legal tems it's called heresay.

 Yeah, jackass. Not jumping the thread, it's jumping back your  crap.  And,as typical with A holes like you, you are offended when people respond to statements like "Give it a rest bub", "kind of dumb". You get personal and then get all crazy when it's thrown back at ya.

Yes, songwriters have been historically listed in alphabetically order  - Love/Wilson; Lennon/McCartney; Goffin/King; Leiber/Stoller; Bacharach/David; Page/Plant.  Let me recommend a book to further your edification (you seem to have bucoo spare time) "All You Need to Know About the Music Business" by Donald Passman. In this case, the writers weren't.  The recording engineer was even listed before Brian.  Point being: You can't base anything on the songwriter order in this case.

And what's consistently "kinda dumb" are your posts on this board.  

[bossaroo]

someone saying Al Vescovo wrote the song doesn't make it so.

that someone is me. Al told me everything he remembered about the song Diamond Head. i have no reason to disbelieve him, nor does anyone else unless they were there and tell a different story. that hasn't happened yet.

i admit i was initially disappointed when i discovered Brian didn't actually come up with the tune. but now i just think it's way cool that he gave a pedal steel player free rein to write a Beach Boys song. I'm a steel player and a big Al Vescovo fan. I grew up in Hawaii too, so Diamond Head is such a favorite of mine... it's Beach Boys, it's pedal steel, it's Hawaii... it's heaven. another reason it's near the end of my SMiLE mix.  


as stated, it is a fairly standard chord progression and it's what all those guys did with it that really makes the tune special. it's no Let's Go Away For Awhile, yet it has a similar feel and transportive quality.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

someone saying Al Vescovo wrote the song doesn't make it so.

that someone is me. Al told me everything he remembered about the song Diamond Head. i have no reason to disbelieve him, nor does anyone else unless they were there and tell a different story. that hasn't happened yet.

i admit i was initially disappointed when i discovered Brian didn't actually come up with the tune. but now i just think it's way cool that he gave a pedal steel player free rein to write a Beach Boys song. I'm a steel player and a big Al Vescovo fan. I grew up in Hawaii too, so Diamond Head is such a favorite of mine... it's Beach Boys, it's pedal steel, it's Hawaii... it's heaven. another reason it's near the end of my SMiLE mix.  

as stated, it is a fairly standard chord progression and it's what all those guys did with it that really makes the tune special. it's no Let's Go Away For Awhile, yet it has a similar feel and transportive quality.

Based on the documented evidence, Al co-wrote it.  I believe Al wrote you that he wrote it, and you believe him. But let me give you some Carol Kaye.  Email her and you can sing her false claims too.

From the BMI Music database = http://repertoire.bmi.com/title.asp?blnWriter=True&blnPublisher=True&blnArtist=True&page=1&keyid=299742&ShowNbr=0&ShowSeqNbr=0&querytype=WorkID

   DIAMOND HEAD (Legal Title)
   BMI Work #299742
Songwriter/Composer    Current Affiliation    CAE/IPI #
ACKLEY JAMES                    SOCAN                    56384366
RITZ LYLE                       ASCAP                    26160120
VESCOVO ALBERT E            BMI                      42041336
WILSON BRIAN               BMI                       33029517
 
Publishers
IRVING MUSIC    BMI    355698807



Now, I over this jump in thread. My apologies.

[Aegir]

No one wrote it, it's a jam.

[Ron]

I think you guys should go ahead and whip 'em out and settle this once and for all. 

[bossaroo]

it's silly to compare Al to Carol Kaye just because you don't want to believe that he wrote Diamond Head. for whatever reason.

Carol has taken credit for all kinds of famous songs and sessions she wasn't even a part of. Al claimed credit for one very obscure steel guitar instrumental.

thanks for the BMI database info. Have you seen all the names on Thelonious Monk's 'Round Midnight'?

[Paulos]

Weakest song PS/Smile -> Our Prayer. It just sounds like the standard thing any given vocal group would throw together as an intro to their act. Sorry!

It has a "sound" that had been done before, in a sense, but "thrown together"? You f*ckin' kidding me, here? Show me any other pop music composer in the 60s, especially one who'd been criticized as a mere dipshit who could only find success after ripping off an old rock 'n' roll number a mere THREE YEARS PRIOR, who could construct something as intricate and just flat out as good as "Our Prayer" and I'll show you a green dog.

Please forgive me. I'm still thinking "high school teacher throws together an opening for the choir to sing  to the Christmas pageant".

I've seen a lot of ill-informed and idiotic comments on this board over the past 2 + years but this one takes the biscuit, there are so many things wrong with what you have said I don't even know where to begin.

[cablegeddon]

Weakest song PS/Smile -> Our Prayer. It just sounds like the standard thing any given vocal group would throw together as an intro to their act. Sorry!

It has a "sound" that had been done before, in a sense, but "thrown together"? You f*ckin' kidding me, here? Show me any other pop music composer in the 60s, especially one who'd been criticized as a mere dipshit who could only find success after ripping off an old rock 'n' roll number a mere THREE YEARS PRIOR, who could construct something as intricate and just flat out as good as "Our Prayer" and I'll show you a green dog.

Please forgive me. I'm still thinking "high school teacher throws together an opening for the choir to sing  to the Christmas pageant".

I've seen a lot of ill-informed and idiotic comments on this board over the past 2 + years but this one takes the biscuit, there are so many things wrong with what you have said I don't even know where to begin.

Relax. Don't get so upset over a 65 second intro.

[rab2591]

I remember nearly two years ago I was ridiculously drunk and I blasted Our Prayer on my friends $$$$ stereo system - hearing that reverberate against the cathedral ceiling of his house was utterly spiritual.

Ie: it's one of the best tracks on SMiLE. But to each his own.

[Ron]

I don't think you can really call that song weak, it's like a Gregorian Chant or something.

No rhythm/time signature
No lyrics

only melody, and harmony.  Pretty amazing. 

[SurfRiderHawaii]

it's silly to compare Al to Carol Kaye just because you don't want to believe that he wrote Diamond Head. for whatever reason.

Carol has taken credit for all kinds of famous songs and sessions she wasn't even a part of. Al claimed credit for one very obscure steel guitar instrumental.

thanks for the BMI database info. Have you seen all the names on Thelonious Monk's 'Round Midnight'?

Again, I don't say he didn't write it.  It appears that he "co-wrote it".  That is what the evidence shows.  It was a collaboration. He wrote the steel guitar pat.  Did Brian suggest chord and key changes during the session.  Have no idea but it wouldn't surprise me.  But to say he "WROTE IT" is incorrect.

[anazgnos]

Weakest song PS/Smile -> Our Prayer. It just sounds like the standard thing any given vocal group would throw together as an intro to their act. Sorry!

It has a "sound" that had been done before, in a sense, but "thrown together"? You f*ckin' kidding me, here? Show me any other pop music composer in the 60s, especially one who'd been criticized as a mere dipshit who could only find success after ripping off an old rock 'n' roll number a mere THREE YEARS PRIOR, who could construct something as intricate and just flat out as good as "Our Prayer" and I'll show you a green dog.

Please forgive me. I'm still thinking "high school teacher throws together an opening for the choir to sing  to the Christmas pageant".

I've seen a lot of ill-informed and idiotic comments on this board over the past 2 + years but this one takes the biscuit, there are so many things wrong with what you have said I don't even know where to begin.

Relax. Don't get so upset over a 65 second intro.

I don't think anyone's upset about the song.