Beach Boys vs Beatles in the same years

[AndrewHickey]

I did consider putting Something Else By The Kinks on the list but felt the Dave Davies songs let it down somewhat. Ray must have been in a good mood that day because he had much better tunes of his own lying around.

Now them's fightin' words! Death Of A Clown and Funny Face letting it down?! Funny Face may be the best thing on the album -- and that's on an album with Waterloo Sunset, David Watts and Two Sisters on it.

[AndrewHickey]

Here's my list. I will use only the Beatles' UK discography. "Excess" BB albums without Beatles analogs will be left without a match and with an *, and that's the case with one Beatles album, too.

(Spring 1963) Surfin' U.S.A. - Please Please Me

Please Please Me every single time.

(Fall 1963) Surfer Girl - With The Beatles

Neither is a huge favourite of mine, but I'd go for Surfer Girl just because of In My Room

(Spring 1964) Shut Down Volume 2 - Hard Day's Night

Shut Down had the better individual tracks, but Hard Day's Night is much better overall.

(2nd half of 1964) All Summer Long - Beatles For Sale

All Summer Long has to win here. Not even close -- and I *like*  Beatles For Sale.

(Summer 1965) Summer Days - Help!

Help! has to win here. Yesterday, I've Just Seen A Face, Ticket To Ride, You've Got To Hide Your Love Away... good as Summer Days is, it's not *that* good.

(Late 1965-early 1966) Pet Sounds - Rubber Soul

The first genuinely difficult choice here. Pet Sounds *just* scrapes it for me.

(mid-1966 to mid-1967 "High Psychedelic Era") Smile/Smiley Smile - Revolver/Sgt Pepper

Revolver beats Smile in the unfinished form we have now -- but a finished Smile following the 2004 structure but with 1967 vocals would have beat Revolver comfortably.
Smiley is ten trillion times the album Pepper is.

(1968-ish "Immediate Post-Psychedelic Era") Wild Honey/Friends vs 'White Album'

Another genuinely difficult one, but the White album just edges out those two for me. Split into single discs, White album disc one beats Wild Honey, but Friends beats White disc two. But taken as a whole the White album wins.

(1969) - Let It Be vs 20/20

20/20, easily,

(1970) - Abbey Road vs Sunflower

Abbey Road, no question about it (I've always found Sunflower the weakest of the 1967-74 albums).
So for me, on this list, the Beatles beat the Beach Boys six albums to five. But it's *incredibly* close...

[Sam_BFC]

I like The Beatles, and was brought up on them to a certain extent.

(But) some of their songs remind me of wartime Britain.

[RangeRoverA1]

The Beach Boys > The Beatles.

[JohnMill]

I already did the selection list made by Magic Transistor Radio, now by SMiLE-addict:

(Spring 1963) Surfin' U.S.A. - Please Please Me
(Fall 1963) Surfer Girl - With The Beatles
(Spring 1964) Shut Down Volume 2 - Hard Day's Night (though to be honest, I'd still go with The Beach Boys)
(2nd half of 1964) All Summer Long - Beatles For Sale
(Summer 1965) Summer Days - Help!
(Late 1965-early 1966) Pet Sounds - Rubber Soul
(mid-1966 to mid-1967 "High Psychedelic Era") Smile/Smiley Smile - Revolver/Sgt Pepper
(1968-ish "Immediate Post-Psychedelic Era") Wild Honey/Friends vs 'White Album'
(1969) - Let It Be vs 20/20 (can't stand the former)
(1970) - Abbey Road vs Sunflower (while I like AR, I'll still vote for the latter, if only for At My Window & Add Some Music)

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Generally, dear Smiley Smilers, you raised very interesting discussion; this thread turned out to be one of the most fascinating (and at times - entertaining) reads to me. One brilliant example is the long debates on the meaning of the word "crass" (even with the lil' help of the on-line dictionaries ), talks about cheerleaders at The BBs concerts yada yada. One of the funniest things I read here, hands down.

On a serious note, I wholeheartedly agree with drbeachboy's posts, every one of them, especially with the statement that there is much worse music written than the BBs' 80s & 90s records (I for one like them). In short, I'm with those who are on the side of our band. From The Beatles' catalog my favorite record is Magical Mystery Tour (minus extremely overrated so-called "hippie anthem" All You Need Is Love & former fave Hello Goodbye). From early years I only enjoy AHDN. Sgt. Pepper isn't a masterwork, why it's achieved #1 in charts & even won Grammy while Pet Sounds ranked at only #10 & wasn't even nominated for the said award is mystery. It is very sad that The Beach Boys didn't get enough accolades they deserved at the time of their style change in the mid-60s.

Man, reading Beach Boys nutters' opinions of Beatles music makes me laugh.
Sgt Pepper is a masterpiece. Opinion or fact. Its music - superb music, brilliantly written, performed, arranged, engineered and so on.

See this is the main problem I have with the Beatles really, their fans. It's like religious indoctrination. They're conditioned from birth to believe that the Beatles are above criticism. Any negative view is met with an incredulous cry of "b-b-b-but it's the Beatles!!!"

Well sorry, I'm just not that impressed by them. I'm not trying to be clever or different, I just find their music boring on the whole.

Chatting with local Beatles fans myself, I can say with certainty they vary from one to another, just like every other artist's fans. It's never one side about each fandom, there are many level-headed people who aren't that obsessive about their favorite group or singer & can manage to say sth. against it, giving fair reasons for that. So, forget this generalization.

As for the 2nd point, I hear you, I'm not impressed by them either, both their public image and (most of the) music. The majority of The Beatles' ante-66 material is extremely boring imo. And speaking of the fillers, they do exist. For instance, The Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill, I Will, Dizzy Miss Lizzy, Act Naturally, Not A Second Time, Hold Me Tight, Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da, It's Only Love, Dig It, Her Majesty, Maggie Mae, Another Girl, Tell Me What You See, Wild Honey Pie, One After 909. If be objective, it's doubtful anyone could think of a better term other than "filler", "weak track", "letdown" referring to those. Although I'm very fond of the last 3 listed songs, even sincerely reckon Tell Me What You See to be the best of the best by The Beatles.

Here is the problem I would have agreeing with your assessment of most of those tracks you listed as being filler.  For me, when it comes to The Beatles there is something worthwhile about almost every track in the canon that validates it's inclusion in the canon.  So while some tracks are obviously stronger than others, there are in my opinion very few weak tracks something I've never been able to say as profoundly about any other band of whom I'm familiar with their entire catalog.

[Theydon Bois]

William Mann of the Times is yelling "Aeolian cadence" very loudly as a result of seeing "Not A Second Time" on that list.

[Jeff]

The Beach Boys at their 66-67 peak were well above what the Beatles did or were even capable of.

But the Beach Boys at their low points were also far below the worst of the Beatles.  List every song the two groups released during the period of their co-existence, and the bottom 20 will all be Beach Boys.

IMO of course.

[Heteronym]

The Beach Boys at their 66-67 peak were well above what the Beatles did or were even capable of.

But the Beach Boys at their low points were also far below the worst of the Beatles.  List every song the two groups released during the period of their co-existence, and the bottom 20 will all be Beach Boys.

IMO of course.

Well, yeah, but consider the Beach Boys only until 70, when The Beatles broke up. It's not that embarrassing anymore

[AndrewHickey]

The Beach Boys at their 66-67 peak were well above what the Beatles did or were even capable of.

But the Beach Boys at their low points were also far below the worst of the Beatles.  List every song the two groups released during the period of their co-existence, and the bottom 20 will all be Beach Boys.

IMO of course.

Well, yeah, but consider the Beach Boys only until 70, when The Beatles broke up. It's not that embarrassing anymore

He did -- he said "during the period of their coexistence".

[Dudd]

Haven't listened to enough early 60s by these two...

mid 65: Today and SDSN vs Help! - Ya can't beat SD&SN!

late 65: Party vs Rubber Soul

mid 66: Pet Sounds vs Revolver

mid 67: SMiLE Sessions vs Sgt Pepper

late 67: Smiley Smile and Wild Honey vs Magical Mystery Tour - That's a toughie. I think I'm gonna have to draw.

68: Friends vs White Album - but only just!

69: 20/20 vs Abbey Road

70: Sunflower vs Let it Be

[sockittome]

Haven't listened to enough early 60s by these two...

mid 65: Today and SDSN vs Help! - Ya can't beat SD&SN!

late 65: Party vs Rubber Soul

mid 66: Pet Sounds vs Revolver

mid 67: SMiLE Sessions vs Sgt Pepper

late 67: Smiley Smile and Wild Honey vs Magical Mystery Tour - That's a toughie. I think I'm gonna have to draw.

68: Friends vs White Album - but only just!

69: 20/20 vs Abbey Road

70: Sunflower vs Let it Be

I'm gonna cheat and use this as my list, since I agree with it with only two very minor exceptions.  I would most likely consider Today/SDSN vs. Help! to be a draw, because they are all strong albums in my book.  And Friends vs. White Album would also be a draw, but for the opposite reason....neither of them does anything for me, except for some of the individual songs.  I might even give Friends the edge just for being a more cohesive album. 

[Peter Reum]

As I said before in another thread, if it is between Beach Boys and Beatles, it'll always be Beach Boys no matter what year. The Beatles are essential listening however.

[Dudd]

As I said before in another thread, if it is between Beach Boys and Beatles, it'll always be Beach Boys no matter what year. The Beatles are essential listening however.

Even with Party vs Rubber Soul?

[Iron Horse-Apples]

As I said before in another thread, if it is between Beach Boys and Beatles, it'll always be Beach Boys no matter what year. The Beatles are essential listening however.

Even with Party vs Rubber Soul?

For personal listening pleasure, yes.

Personally I think if we're going to have Party! in the list though, the Beatles fan Christmas LP's should also be included.

[Heteronym]

The Beach Boys at their 66-67 peak were well above what the Beatles did or were even capable of.

But the Beach Boys at their low points were also far below the worst of the Beatles.  List every song the two groups released during the period of their co-existence, and the bottom 20 will all be Beach Boys.

IMO of course.

Well, yeah, but consider the Beach Boys only until 70, when The Beatles broke up. It's not that embarrassing anymore

He did -- he said "during the period of their coexistence".

Fair enough. I guess I'm inclined to relate "Beach Boys' low" with their post-Love You output and everything that happened since.

They released 6 albums in a two year period (62-64). That's where we'd find the majority of "lows", because there were bound to be some fillers. After that (and until Sunflower), I don't see many low points (less than exceptional, of course) to be fair, but that's me.

[Shady]

As I said before in another thread, if it is between Beach Boys and Beatles, it'll always be Beach Boys no matter what year. The Beatles are essential listening however.

Yes sir!

[Cabinessenceking]

The Nearest Faraway Place

[Daniel]

[/quote]



Personally I think if we're going to have Party! in the list though, the Beatles fan Christmas LP's should also be included.
[/quote]


Why?
The Beatles Christmas LP (singular, not plural) was not commercially released. Party! was.

[Jeff]

They released 6 albums in a two year period (62-64). That's where we'd find the majority of "lows", because there were bound to be some fillers. After that (and until Sunflower), I don't see many low points (less than exceptional, of course) to be fair, but that's me.

But the Beatles were just about as prolific during that time, even though they started a few months later.

Remember that the Beach Boys' albums only had 12 tracks each, and one of the six albums had four repeated tracks on it.  So that's a total of 68 unique tracks, not including Christmas songs.

Three of the Beatles' four UK albums in 63-64 had 14 tracks, and the fourth had 13.  They also released 12 tracks that were not on those early albums (four A-sides, four B-sides and an EP).  That's a total of 67 unique tracks, not including Christmas songs.

[Heteronym]

True, but The Beatles had quite a few covers. I did some quick counting, and, whilst The Beach Boys covered 9 songs in their studio albums until 1964, The Beatles did 18.

Regardless, it's not that much of a difference anyway. I guess, after all, it's more of a question that The Beatle's fillers and even covers were better.

It's just that, as a BB fan, I tend to disconsider those early fillers and pass them as a minor necessary evil, especially considering that it was pretty much Brian composing all the work.

[Dudd]

In my opinion the Beach Boys' cover of "I Can Hear Music" is one of their best songs.

[Jeff]

True, but The Beatles had quite a few covers. I did some quick counting, and, whilst The Beach Boys covered 9 songs in their studio albums until 1964, The Beatles did 18.

Regardless, it's not that much of a difference anyway. I guess, after all, it's more of a question that The Beatle's fillers and even covers were better.

It's just that, as a BB fan, I tend to disconsider those early fillers and pass them as a minor necessary evil, especially considering that it was pretty much Brian composing all the work.

The originals vs. covers argument might be a good one, except that some of the Beach Boys' "originals" were blooper tracks or aimless instrumentals.  I don't think Brian can take much credit for Denny's Drums.

What Brian can take credit for is being essentially Paul, John and George Martin rolled into one.  There's no question that he was doing an amazing job, given the record company's enormous demands and the relative lack of producing and song writing resources.

But at the end of the day, the results are the results.  The Beatles were simply far more consistent on their early albums.

[Myk Luhv]

This seemingly endless contrast with The Beatles as well as Brian's "genius" label are the biggest albatrosses The Beach Boys have had to continually deal with throughout their career.

[AndrewHickey]

This seemingly endless contrast with The Beatles as well as Brian's "genius" label are the biggest albatrosses The Beach Boys have had to continually deal with throughout their career.

Absolutely agreed. I don't imagine that on Beatles message boards people are starting endless threads about "who was better, the Beatles or the Beach Boys?"

[Iron Horse-Apples]

This seemingly endless contrast with The Beatles as well as Brian's "genius" label are the biggest albatrosses The Beach Boys have had to continually deal with throughout their career.

Absolutely agreed. I don't imagine that on Beatles message boards people are starting endless threads about "who was better, the Beatles or the Beach Boys?"

Well because its part of our culture to accept that the Beatles were the best band ever. Even on this board to question this marks you out as some sort of pariah. We can talk about the Beach Boys greatness as much as we want, but the Beatles must be in there as a measuring stick.

As soon as the last of the baby boomers have gone, we may be able to start piecing together a real unbiased history.

Any history that begins with "There was all the boring music our parent listened to, and then there was rock n'roll, which had absolutely no relation to swing or big band" is bullshit. And yet that's the bullshit we're fed.

Nearly as good as "Rock n roll died in 1959, and all American and British pop was sh*t and sterile and manufactured till the Beatles came along" Another of my favourites.