"I Was Made to Love Her" on Wild Honey and Carol Kaye's claims

[hypehat]

Yeah, there's also a tracking session where Brian is telling them about an eye spray that stops them getting bloodshot cos you've smoked too much. I mean, even if she only had the tracking sessions to go on, you could reach the conclusion Brian took drugs. But she's been around Brian for most of his insanely turbulent life, and she thinks he DOESN'T HAVE MENTAL PROBLEMS. Jesus H.

She does sound rather....unstable. What she said to you both is pretty nasty. And I can't believe her constant disrespect of the finest bass player to ever walk the earth

She hasn't said one word about John Entwistle. 

 

[Mikie]

Anyone who can claim that Brian never touched drugs or suffers from mental illness can't be trusted to give a honest opinion on anything.

Did Carol ever say that?  All I have heard (read) her say is that she never saw any drugs in the studio when Brian was there and that he always had complete control.

[Mikie]

My experience with Carol has been positive ... I think she's generally a nice lady and regardless of these personal interactions some people have had with her over the internet, she has accomplished more than most of us ever will with regard to the greatest recordings of all time.  So i think we should show some respect.  And I've found in dealing with musicians of the '60s that their memories are not always accurate ... it's disrespectful to call them out on it.  When Sky Saxon told me all of the Seeds records were cut on 16-track tape, i just grinned and had another beer.  I understand historians need to get the facts straight, but the human element is all to often ignored around here.

Well said.  Yeah, I never had a problem wih Carol. She voluntarily signed the book in my Pet Sounds Sessions box and she in turn had Hal Blaine sign it. She also sent me a few personalized guitar picks and answered all my questions via e-mail and I never had any run-ins with her. Seemed normal and very nice.

[Loaf]

BTW: is it true that she also claims to have played bass on 'Light My Fire', where that song doesn't feature a bass?

(Excuses if this sounds silly, I heard the anecdote 10 years ago and barely listened to said song ever, I don't like the Doors. But the idea is funny.)

There is bass on most/all(?) Doors studio tracks. Doug Lubahn is credited on the first album. You can hear it on Light My Fire, a bass instrument in the right channel e.g. listen at 0:10-0:16, it's kind of Beach Boysy almost, so it's not Ray on the organ. The Doors didn't have a bass player in their live shows.

Bass was admitted to on just the one track on The Doors, albeit in later years, and Lubahn didn't play on that one (rather, the next three). Lately it's emerged that because the Fender Rhodes bass keyboard recorded so badly, Larry Knetchel was called in on the quiet to overdub bass onto six tracks, including "Light My Fire". Kaye claims to have played on it, but she didn't.

Thanks, AGD, great stuff... and maybe that's why i thought the bass sounded "Beach Boysy" (I originally typed "Pet Soundsy" then changed it), cos it's Larry Knechtel.

[endofposts]

I did notice that when I did read Carol's board, she was nice to some of the people who asked bass-related questions.  She'd suggest what type of bass a new player should purchase and so forth.  If you don't push any of her buttons, she is capable of being kind and helpful, that is true.  She's just uh, odd.  It makes her look bad and it's sad she tarnishes her own legacy with random extreme rudeness and a pattern of lying about certain things.  It's almost like she thinks, "I played on a few Motown records, so therefore I must have played on numerous Motown records, not to mention other hit records that I'd like to claim.  I will tell you which ones I'd like to think I played on whether I actually played on them or not.  My mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts, or I'll bite your head off, you little Internet freak."  She also likes to impress people with her "close personal friendship" with Brian Wilson, so she might think she owes him some major defense against any and all charges.  

[bgas]

My experience with Carol has been positive ... I think she's generally a nice lady and regardless of these personal interactions some people have had with her over the internet, she has accomplished more than most of us ever will with regard to the greatest recordings of all time.  So i think we should show some respect.  And I've found in dealing with musicians of the '60s that their memories are not always accurate ... it's disrespectful to call them out on it.  When Sky Saxon told me all of the Seeds records were cut on 16-track tape, i just grinned and had another beer.  I understand historians need to get the facts straight, but the human element is all to often ignored around here.

Well said.  Yeah, I never had a problem wih Carol. She voluntarily signed the book in my Pet Sounds Sessions box and she in turn had Hal Blaine sign it. She also sent me a few personalized guitar picks and answered all my questions via e-mail and I never had any run-ins with her. Seemed normal and very nice.

well sure, I see. Carol has been nice to a small collection of people, who then choose to defend her in the face of overwhelming proof that she's a nutjob.
 She WAS a great session player, no doubt. Too bad that wasn't enough

[Mikie]

Who's defending her? I just said she was nice to me. This was back in 2000, 2001. She asked me if I'd like my Pet Sounds book autographed and of course I said yes! She volunteered Hal's signature and I said yes! She said she would send me a little surprise with the returned signed book and she did! She's 10 years older now and sometimes old ladies forget things and are rude and persnickety and their personalities are a little less than desirable. My 85 year old Grandma was like that. I understand that.

Besides, Bgas. I'm nice to people. The Smile I send out usually returns to me. Can you say that about yourself?

[bgas]

Who's defending her? I just said she was nice to me. This was back in 2000, 2001. She asked me if I'd like my Pet Sounds book autographed and of course I said yes! She volunteered Hal's signature and I said yes! She said she would send me a little surprise with the returned signed book and she did! She's 10 years older now and sometimes old ladies forget things and are rude and their personalities are a little less than desirable. My 85 year old Grandma was like that. I understand that.

Besides, Bgas. I'm nice to people. The Smile I send out usually returns to me. Can you say that about yourself?

All the time

[Andrew G. Doe]

Um... it was in 2000 that she started calling me a liar and a thief. It's not a development of the last decade, it's how she was back then, and she's not changed: go on her MB and ask her about James Jameson, or mention you're a friend of mine - you'll be barred before you know it.

[Mikie]

It just gets me when people jump on bandwagons just for the hell of it. They've never had a problem with the person in question, but it's just easy to admonish people because it's the 'cool' thing to do, especially on a message board. You can't really relate to the problem someone is having with a particular person, but "Oh, what the hell, let me put my 2 cents of B.S. negativism in just because so and so did".  "You know, I don't have anything against the person, and I don't know the person, nor have I ever talked to that person or ever communicated with them before, but I'll take sides with the person throwing poo at them anyway just 'cause I feel like it".

As Steve Martin once said, "Don't criticize things you don't know about".

[bgas]

Sure Mikie, maybe you need to buy a new mirror

[Jon Stebbins]

See Carol's evil power is turning you all against each other and and soon...she'll have played the clavinet riff on Superstition!!

[endofposts]

As a person who she attacked for no reason, I was just giving fair warning as to how she is.  She also will attack you for other things than her session credits.   Just be warned, that is all.  Play nice with her (or her definition of nice, and not yours) and she can be nice, unless you mention some topic she has a bee in her bonnet about, and it could be something you wouldn't expect. It has nothing to do with age and she hasn't changed. 

Some Wrecking Crew people have negative feelings but they don't seem to want to spell them out.  I take that as a sign of the depth of respect they have for her on a professional level, even if they have problems on a personal level.  I get the feeling she's had a falling out with Hal Blaine in recent years.  She has some kind of crusade against him about using the Wrecking Crew label in his book that he wrote years ago.  She hates that the musicians are now called the Wrecking Crew and she blames Hal's book.  She can be a little picky, to say the least.

[c-man]

OK...I asked Bruce who played the Motown-style bass on the BBs' version of IWMTLH, and without prompting from me, his answer was:
Ron Brown.

[Wirestone]

See Carol's evil power is turning you all against each other and and soon...she'll have played the clavinet riff on Superstition!!

Ha!

OK...I asked Bruce who played the Motown-style bass on the BBs' version of IWMTLH, and without prompting from me, his answer was:
Ron Brown.

Amazing! Does this mean the Wild Honey bass mystery is finally -- solved? I mean, I remember people debating this on the original Cabinessence board back in 96!

[c-man]

See Carol's evil power is turning you all against each other and and soon...she'll have played the clavinet riff on Superstition!!

Ha!

OK...I asked Bruce who played the Motown-style bass on the BBs' version of IWMTLH, and without prompting from me, his answer was:
Ron Brown.

Amazing! Does this mean the Wild Honey bass mystery is finally -- solved? I mean, I remember people debating this on the original Cabinessence board back in 96!

Well maybe for that one song...Bruce also tells me that HE (Bruce) played both the bass and the "cheesy" (as he describes it) organ solo on the "Wild Honey" title track.  So, some of the bass on the album is Bruce, some is Ron, some might be Carl, some might be Brian, some might be Al...

[Wirestone]

Nooooooooo!

[Mikie]

So what's the board rules again?  People can talk crap about members of the Wrecking Crew but not fellow posters?

Damn.

[Jon Stebbins]

Carol told me they were never called the Wrecking Crew.

[endofposts]

Carol told me they were never called the Wrecking Crew.

Does anyone know when they started getting called that?  Did it start with Hal Blaine's book in the 1990's?  Did Hal coin it himself, or did he refer in his book as to why he used that name, or did someone he worked with coin the phrase? 

[juggler]

Anyone here watch Jeopardy?  They had a 'Wrecking Crew' category a couple nights ago.  The BBs, CK and Hal B. all made it into the questions.
http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=3770

[stack-o-tracks]

Carol told me they were never called the Wrecking Crew.

Probably similar to how Frank Sinatra & co were never the Rat Pack.

Even though they were.

[Mikie]

Does anyone know when they started getting called that?  Did it start with Hal Blaine's book in the 1990's?  Did Hal coin it himself, or did he refer in his book as to why he used that name, or did someone he worked with coin the phrase?

It's all Hal. I remember when he came to a Beach boys convention in Oakland and gave a talk and signed books for the fans. He said that he came up with "Wrecking Crew" because he believed that the older studio musicians were thinking that he and other young studio musicians were going to wreck the music industry.

[Mr. Wilson]

WH cheesy organ solo..??..HMM ...not to my ears.!!.. Great solo + chord changes + bass part also..1St time i heard that song i was in high school..WHOA..!! Thats the BB..?? The song rocks..!!

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

OK...I asked Bruce who played the Motown-style bass on the BBs' version of IWMTLH, and without prompting from me, his answer was:
Ron Brown.

Fantastic!  I would love, and I'm sure you feel the same way, C-man, to get Bruce to do a run down on more of that stuff.  Being a natural arranger, he would probably be more attuned to that stuff than anybody.  Love to hear more about Ron's involvement on record, and frankly, about Ron Brown in general.

Good work!