MOJO Special Spolier

[Andrew G. Doe]

Well, it's obviously not a fold-down... and I have my doubts it's a new mix, 'cause if it was, I'm they'd have come up with a mono doubled lead. I'm standing by what I theorised (until proven wrong) - it's a re-EQ'd left pan of the stereo master. If only because nothing else fits. 

Hmmm -sorry Andrew but I respectfully disagree cos

1. the stereo lead may not actually be properly double tracked but rather the same track just done left and right and with one slightly delayed for stereo purposes - just one take - I know this from experience

2. Just re-EQ'd left pan? - to be honest that's just plain lazy and would be an aural insult to the song - I doubt ML and AB would just do that for the sake of their own reputations

3. I think I am right in saying that the backing track was edited together from the various sessions for each part and then the backing vocals were put on top of the assembled backing track and then finally the lead vocal was done - I believe to be able to make the changes in the MOJO mix they must have access to some multitracks - wasn't the backing track locked into one or two tracks and the vocals filled up the next five or six with space left for the lead - that would allow Mark and Alan the opportunity to properly create a mono mix from the multitracks - I don't think the changes are as a result of just applying different EQ to the completed mix - the levels are just to different.

That said happy to be PROVED wrong by ML or AB

1 - yeah, like it just hit me... ADT.

2 - aside from Carl's lead, strikes me everything else is common to both channels, ergo a left or right pan would work.

3 - fair point... but what if those tapes were also junked by Columbia in 1967 ?

[desmondo]

Well, it's obviously not a fold-down... and I have my doubts it's a new mix, 'cause if it was, I'm they'd have come up with a mono doubled lead. I'm standing by what I theorised (until proven wrong) - it's a re-EQ'd left pan of the stereo master. If only because nothing else fits. 

Hmmm -sorry Andrew but I respectfully disagree cos

1. the stereo lead may not actually be properly double tracked but rather the same track just done left and right and with one slightly delayed for stereo purposes - just one take - I know this from experience

2. Just re-EQ'd left pan? - to be honest that's just plain lazy and would be an aural insult to the song - I doubt ML and AB would just do that for the sake of their own reputations

3. I think I am right in saying that the backing track was edited together from the various sessions for each part and then the backing vocals were put on top of the assembled backing track and then finally the lead vocal was done - I believe to be able to make the changes in the MOJO mix they must have access to some multitracks - wasn't the backing track locked into one or two tracks and the vocals filled up the next five or six with space left for the lead - that would allow Mark and Alan the opportunity to properly create a mono mix from the multitracks - I don't think the changes are as a result of just applying different EQ to the completed mix - the levels are just to different.

That said happy to be PROVED wrong by ML or AB

1 - yeah, like it just hit me... ADT.

2 - aside from Carl's lead, strikes me everything else is common to both channels, ergo a left or right pan would work.

3 - fair point... but what if those tapes were also junked by Columbia in 1967 ?

1. ADT? - being dim - what is ADT?

2. That would make the 68 version false stereo then - same track split left and right plus maybe centre, delayed tweaked, reverbed EQ'd - voila stereo

3. Fair point - but what if they weren't

But as you said a well placed e-mail would help

[buddhahat]

Does Wonderful end abruptly as it does on the 93 box, with the bass doing it's 'in between verses' thing, and then just ending, or does it fade?

Yes, the ending to "Wonderful" is virtually -- if not completely -- identical. I listened to that specifically, because a lot of times you can tell from the fade if a song's been remixed or not.

That's why I asked.  Thanks!

 I am hearing a couple of extra bass notes at the end on MOJO

I count 6 bass notes on both versions. Pretty sure it's the same ending.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Automatic Double Tracking.

[desmondo]

Automatic Double Tracking.

Ta

[desmondo]

Does Wonderful end abruptly as it does on the 93 box, with the bass doing it's 'in between verses' thing, and then just ending, or does it fade?

Yes, the ending to "Wonderful" is virtually -- if not completely -- identical. I listened to that specifically, because a lot of times you can tell from the fade if a song's been remixed or not.

That's why I asked.  Thanks!

 I am hearing a couple of extra bass notes at the end on MOJO

I count 6 bass notes on both versions. Pretty sure it's the same ending.

Think I got seven on MOJO 

What an extra bass note between friends

[seltaeb1012002]

Perhaps soMeone can share the wealth! 

[Iron Horse-Apples]

That is a single tracked lead, most definitely

Like Don't Talk on the stereo PS, maybe they only found some of the multi-tracks, or maybe Carl's overdub was added on the mixdown, (unlikely in '68, but possible)

I love it though, it makes it sound much more intimate, just as it should.

The Truck Driving Man sounds like it's been extracted with software, but this is just an MP3, so not sure. Whatever it is, it's nice to hear it louder.

[buddhahat]

Does Wonderful end abruptly as it does on the 93 box, with the bass doing it's 'in between verses' thing, and then just ending, or does it fade?

Yes, the ending to "Wonderful" is virtually -- if not completely -- identical. I listened to that specifically, because a lot of times you can tell from the fade if a song's been remixed or not.

That's why I asked.  Thanks!

 I am hearing a couple of extra bass notes at the end on MOJO

I count 6 bass notes on both versions. Pretty sure it's the same ending.

Think I got seven on MOJO 

What an extra bass note between friends

Well I'm listening to the rip, not the 45 so that could explain it. Either that or I can't count very well.

We're through the microscope here people, arguing over a single bass note on one song! Think what's going to happen when this box set finally hits!!

[Andrew G. Doe]

We're through the microscope here people, arguing over a single bass note on one song! Think what's going to happen when this box set finally hits!!

Doesn't bear thinking about, does it ? 

[Paul2010]

I just compared the fade out on Wonderful from the GV Boxset and the new single - and they both have the same 6 notes. That said, the new fade out is louder and the last notes lasts just a bit longer. I had to boost the volume on the boxset fade out quite a bit to actually hear that last note, and on the single version I heard it immediately.

[desmondo]

Does Wonderful end abruptly as it does on the 93 box, with the bass doing it's 'in between verses' thing, and then just ending, or does it fade?

Yes, the ending to "Wonderful" is virtually -- if not completely -- identical. I listened to that specifically, because a lot of times you can tell from the fade if a song's been remixed or not.

That's why I asked.  Thanks!

 I am hearing a couple of extra bass notes at the end on MOJO

I count 6 bass notes on both versions. Pretty sure it's the same ending.

Think I got seven on MOJO 

What an extra bass note between friends

Well I'm listening to the rip, not the 45 so that could explain it. Either that or I can't count very well.

We're through the microscope here people, arguing over a single bass note on one song! Think what's going to happen when this box set finally hits!!

I can't count that well either 

Probably six but maybe I was concentrating on that 'louder' last note 

[buddhahat]

Does Wonderful end abruptly as it does on the 93 box, with the bass doing it's 'in between verses' thing, and then just ending, or does it fade?

Yes, the ending to "Wonderful" is virtually -- if not completely -- identical. I listened to that specifically, because a lot of times you can tell from the fade if a song's been remixed or not.

That's why I asked.  Thanks!

 I am hearing a couple of extra bass notes at the end on MOJO

I count 6 bass notes on both versions. Pretty sure it's the same ending.

Think I got seven on MOJO 

What an extra bass note between friends

Well I'm listening to the rip, not the 45 so that could explain it. Either that or I can't count very well.

We're through the microscope here people, arguing over a single bass note on one song! Think what's going to happen when this box set finally hits!!

I can't count that well either 

Probably six but maybe I was concentrating on that 'louder' last note 

Ha ha!

Hands up who's going to be hearing Cabinessence and/or Wonderful when they try to go to sleep tonight! 

[desmondo]

We're through the microscope here people, arguing over a single bass note on one song! Think what's going to happen when this box set finally hits!!

Doesn't bear thinking about, does it ? 

May be that's the plan - two tracks at a time - we can analyse them to death for a few months and they sort the next two

Actually it could be a game - AB and ML etc sitting in a studio watching this board and pissing themselves laughing as we dissect everything - They have probably opened a book on the wackiest post on this board  

[Micha]

But... this info contradicts itself. Yes, the 11/28/66 session for "The Elements (Fire)" has the track logged at 2.50. No argument. But the following days session for "Friday Night (I'm in Great Shape)" is not only a different session, it doesn't share the master number for "Fire". Plus, 1.50 and 1.30 adds up to 3.20, which isn't even close to 2.50 (it's over 17% more). Sorry Orville, doesn't fly.

A little speculation on my part: Could be a typo. Whoever typed the session log was supposed to type "1:50" and typed "2:50" instead... After all, the number of the seconds is identical!

[bsten]

Guess I'll wait for the box set. Nothing really new here it seems...

And meanwhile I'm listening to the 9-minute "Here comes the night" instrumental - with A LOT OF bass notes...

Love the saxophone solo on that one - as well as the sax solo on "Goin on" w/the wonderful background.
Some late 70's/early 80's high lights!  

Were those solos improvised - or did the boys write those parts??

Oh sorry to interrupt fellas, back to Smile...

 /B

[Winston Wrong]

Ok, just been on a 36 mile round trip to try and locate a copy of Mojo.. sold out everywhere! Either the print run was far too limited or multiple copies have been bought to sell on ebay

Can someone make my day with a Pee eM so I can hear all?

Many thanks in advance 

[guitarfool2002]

Having spent the weekend in Manhattan, I stopped into the Borders bookstore at Columbus Circle yesterday afternoon and was disappointed they did not have the MOJO issue available. Does anyone have any new information on which stores in the US may already be carrying it in-store without having to order online?

[Boiled Egg]

Automatic Double Tracking.

Artificial Double Tracking, to be pedantic.  (That's what its inventor, Ken Townsend, called it, and who are we to move his goalposts?)  Delay, in short.

[Shady]

This is the perfect appetiser for the box set..

Wonderful sounds incredible with the new part added, and the "over and over" part in Cabin Essence is louder, it hits you more.

[GeorgeFellInHisHorn]

Does Wonderful end abruptly as it does on the 93 box, with the bass doing it's 'in between verses' thing, and then just ending, or does it fade?

Yes, the ending to "Wonderful" is virtually -- if not completely -- identical. I listened to that specifically, because a lot of times you can tell from the fade if a song's been remixed or not.

That's why I asked.  Thanks!

 I am hearing a couple of extra bass notes at the end on MOJO

can someone PLEASE PM me. I'm dying to hear this, can't wait till it hits the states. Thank you

[desmondo]

Automatic Double Tracking.

Artificial Double Tracking, to be pedantic.  (That's what its inventor, Ken Townsend, called it, and who are we to move his goalposts?)  Delay, in short.

Yes thanking you - used it myself many times and its such a simple way of getting a bigger sound

[hypehat]

Ok, just been on a 36 mile round trip to try and locate a copy of Mojo.. sold out everywhere! Either the print run was far too limited or multiple copies have been bought to sell on ebay

Can someone make my day with a Pee eM so I can hear all?

Many thanks in advance  

Where are you? I found a copy in Rough Trade East today, no problem.... They had loads on the counter.

By gum, does Wonderful sound great btw. The interviews are also not as bad as some make out - Although Brian seems kinda sad about it, there's a quote where he says 'I was tired of the pop song structure, I wanted it to be a departure. Overall we couldn't get through a whole song.' Which before people call phooey, is sorta true - What Smile song could you honestly say was 'finished' by May 1967?

 Loads of great photos in there, too.

You're right, the post '67 article is full of 'biography' quotes. A damn shame.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Some more on Cabin Essence

Well, I just synched the Mojo track and the '93 boxset track together on Cubase.

The first verse and chorus are completely in synch, not even the slightest hint of phase. The second verse and chorus go out of synch, but only because the edit has been adjusted.

The fact they are completely in synch would lead me to believe that AGD is right (again unfortunately). If they had gone back to the multitracks, you would expect there to be slight timing differences. Tapes stretch slightly every time they are played. This is almost certainly the version used on the 93 boxset, with a mix made from one side of the stereo pair.

If they had made a mix from the multitracks, you would have timing differences, however slight.

[desmondo]

Some more on Cabin Essence

Well, I just synched the Mojo track and the '93 boxset track together on Cubase.

The first verse and chorus are completely in synch, not even the slightest hint of phase. The second verse and chorus go out of synch, but only because the edit has been adjusted.

The fact they are completely in synch would lead me to believe that AGD is right (again unfortunately). If they had gone back to the multitracks, you would expect there to be slight timing differences. Tapes stretch slightly every time they are played. This is almost certainly the version used on the 93 boxset, with a mix made from one side of the stereo pair.

If they had made a mix from the multitracks, you would have timing differences, however slight.

Unless they were working from the same material in 66, 68, 83 and 2011

It would also have been put on Pro Tools (ML did it for DS) so they would have been able to do a comparison and correct any major differences