The Smiley Smile Message Board

Well just about a spoiler

Having received my e-mail from Badlands in Cheltenham (the ebay seller) - I just happened to be nearby so popped along to see if I could rescue it - I couldn't but had a quick look through another copy - they had about another five or six available.

On my quick flick through here are some observations on the proviso is that it was only a quick flick

1. The whole mag is about 70 pages - the Smile special takes up 20 of those

2. I didn't see any reference to release date or tracklisting but as I said it was a quick flick through

3. There appears to be pretty substantial interviews with Brian, Mike and Al - didn't see Bruce but note above applies

4. Small Mark Linett panel which didn't appear to reveal anything startling that we don't know

5. Lots of nice pics from the period but I have a short memory

6. The single is beautifully packaged - the front is given over to Cabinessence and the illustration is NOT from Frank Holmes - it is a rather beautiful landscape painting including a mountain. I did ask if they could play it in the shop but no turntable.

7. I will listen to the single tomorrow and try and rip it to mp3

On a side note I can recommend the shop - they do good mail order - I have already placed an order with them for the box set even though they have no details - the owner did promise to e-mail stuff as he gets it - he has a good relationship with the rep.

My experience is that they send stuff out so you get it on the release day

Please understand the above is based on only a quick flick through so there may be more stuff in there that we all want to know

Hopefully my copy will arrive tomorrow so will post more

Permission to say "told ya so" ?   ;D

Denied.

So far yep

Tomorrow is another day

This hasn't hit the stands in the States, has it?

Dang it!  :-\

Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn !

Even if anyone said no, it isn't like you'd listen.

True dat.

Looking forward to hearing what versions are on the single.

 ;)

Chances are you've already heard 'em, to judge from the timings.

And really, if they somehow found a new, unheard version of ANY SMiLE song, you can be sure they wouldn't include it as a free single in a magazine.

No doubt, but I think there's a slim chance that we at least get new remasters of the two songs, or (even slimmer) new mono or stereo mixes. We'll see.

And here's an Ebay pic of the single, that this seller is selling along with the mag: 

http://cgi.ebay.com/BEACH-BOYS-7-CABIN-ESSENCE-UK-YELLOW-VINYL-2011-MAG-/350469869813?pt=UK_Records&hash=item5199a1d0f5

Sounds great but, nothing new :-\

So does this mean the vinyl version of TSS is also likely to have a Brother Records label?

It seems as thought the font was made to look like wooden logs, to fit the Cabinessence theme. Nice touch.  :)

Or... like the font used for the track listing on the back of Pet Sounds! That's the bit of continuity that occurred to me first. Even though Cabin Essence isn't very much like ANYTHING from Pet Sounds...!

MattB

It arrived - nothing particularly of note except

Brian says he didn't burn tapes, he did a 7 minute version of H&V and that VDP came up with initial the idea of doing the elements

Here is single cover

[attachment deleted by admin]

They filled 20 pages with that?!!

Is ther any info on the upcoming release or is all rehashing of the original story?

Also have you had a chance to play the single yet?

Edit: massive reading between the lines on my part but could Brian's remembering of a 7 minute heroes suggest his memory's been recently jogged i.e. by something on the sessions?

Ohand thanks desmondo for posting the pic. Looks beautiful!

No info on upcoming release unless its hiding

Will be listening to single shortly - I have to go to my neighbours - will post a review or something

He did say he's listened to the stuff again recently

Yes sadly lots of re-hash

Thanks for the info.

I think him claiming to have done a 7 min heroes, even if it isn't featured on the box, is interesting in itself.

Also makes me wonder, along with Dom Priorie's talk of how Alan has really got into the history of how the smile bits fitted together, whether Alan and Mark may have attempted to reconstruct a long Heroes, perhaps with clues from the BB's own acetates, or even just the detective work that Priore mentions. Conjecture I know, but a long Heroes would be a suitably ambitious and logical thing to try with this sessions release imo - It would definitely be a strong selling point, and could give this 'Smile' its own identity separate from BWPS.

Beautiful sleeve...the painting is of Maroon Creek flowing out of Maroon Lake about 15 miles northwest of Aspen, Colorado. The Maroon Bells are the peaks depicted...topping out at a little over 14,000 feet above sea level. Probably the most photographed in Colorado...

Many thanks for that Peter, appreciate the info as I wouldn't have been able to place them.

Nice pic, but I'd've liked to have seen the "meadow filled with grain there" and the "waves of wheat for your embracing…" in any Cabinessence image. The place the song puts me in mind of is the Historic Parsons Memorial Lodge at Soda Springs near Tuolumne Meadows, in Yosemite NP.
http://www.yosemite.ca.us/library/yosemite_resources/images/illustration_63.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rossdoering/4953313051/lightbox/

That don't have no waves of wheat either tho'!

SO I wonder when we're getting some new info....with all the interviews Brian's been doing this past week you'd think he'd have a few more details to promote

"A US Forest Service sign on the access trail refers to these mountains as "The Deadly Bells" and warns would-be climbers of "downsloping, loose, rotten and unstable" rock that "kills without warning". "

this smile sh*t just got serious son. maybe they found a recording of the earth element? he better shelve it and just put out a pebble.

The mag is supposed to be out on June 15, so how come the Ebay seller already has copies?
Also, "It’s in all good newsagents" - at what price?

This from the BW message board:

"Details about the special SMiLE edition of Mojo Magazine!!!

(posted by HarryApplemoos on June 10, 2011 at 6:13 am)

Message:

It’s a new kind of MOJO Special Edition, a deluxe package devoted to the decade that a sage once described as the greatest in the history of mankind. Centring on the still-astonishing story of the Beach Boys’ Smile, finally to be granted release in something close to its original intended form, MOJO ’60s includes an exclusive, super-collectible, 7" vinyl 45 of Smile’s once-mythic Cabinessence, on special, sunshine-coloured vinyl, and in-depth stories on the Rolling Stones’ Between The Buttons, acid and The Red Krayola. Plus unseen Hendrix, Dylan’s 1966, a Baron Wolman portfolio, Roy Harper on the first moon landing, and some group called The Beatles. It’s in all good newsagents from next Wednesday, June 15."

/B

I don't really care for the art on the 7" sleeve, but it is interesting that it's Cabin Essence not Cabinessence.

Mike is holding everything up, you heard it here first  ;D

*koff*

Told ya so.  ::)

So, the only entirely new info is that VDP suggested The Elements. If true, kinda throws a humongous spanner in several people's theories.

If indeed that is true. Not saying it is or isn't, but how many times has Brian said something that we've all kinda went 'Uh, sure' to?

Is a 7 minute version of H&V news? That's been known of for years.

'xactly - since 1967, to be precise.

Oh Andrew...you must have a crystal ball or something  ::)

Nope. I just apply simple logic. That and knowing who'd written it (and when) told me there'd be next to no new information.  Not seen it myself yet, but when I do I expect to be throwing it across the room at regular intervals.

But it could be part of the conspiracy!

It's not news, but it might be interesting that Brian is remembering this fact, this late in the day. How many times has this extended Heroes been mentioned in interviews? I know Mike referred to it back in 67, but since then which of the Boys has spoken of it? I'm not well versed in the Smile interviews over the years but I just wonder if Brian's choosing to remember this now could have something to do with his memory having been jogged recently, by perhaps, er, something that's on the set?! (Yes wishful thinking, but it's all we've got at the moment!)

It would be interesting to see the quote about the 7 minute Heroes in context. Desmondo, if you get a chance could you post the quote please?!

I'll keep on saying this until it takes root - that article was written at least two months ago, at which time he wouldn't have heard anything from the box. Not seen the article yet, but it's entirely possible that the original interview went:

Int: Brian is it true you did a seven minute version of "H&V" ?

BDW: Yeah.

The H&V quote is from another piece about BB post Smile in the same MOJO which includes quotes from BW. AJ and ML and VDP and goes like this

"It was supposed to outdo (GV) and be the new masterpiece," said Brian. "I did it extended for 7 minutes. The 3:36 version bore only a distant relation to the wild, rambling, rollercoaster rendition I'd once described as a muscial comedy, but I continued to believe the song was special."

That feels like a up to date interview

Also I will put money on us getting H&V without the LEAD vocal on the upcoming release

See my post above

Now, does that sound to anyone here like Brian ? No - sounds more like something out of his pseudobiography.

You took the words right out of my fingertips!

More like:

Interviewer: Would you say that the 3:36 version bore only a distant relation to the wild, rambling, rollercoaster rendition you'd once described as a muscial comedy?

BW: Yes.

Interviewer: Did you continue to believe the song was special?

BW: Yes. Gershwin's people called us and asked us if we'd like to finish 101 so songs they sent us a tape. It was the biggest production of our lives.

OK, the Mojo 45 - "Cabin Essence" is as per 20/20 but in mono (mix ? fold-down ? no idea)... and "Wonderful" is as per the 1993 box.

Except.

The first set of bvs have an extra layer, the 'yodelling' bvs, at 0.53. otherwise, as per.

So I was 97% right.  ;D

That Brian quote about "H&V" ?

Guess where it comes from ?  ;D

That single suddenly became an even-more essential purchase.

Many cheers!

Have you bought a copy at your local newsagent by the way or on eBay?

Actually, since you said we'd be getting the 20/20 "Cabinessence" and the GV box "Wonderful" (i.e., nothing new from the SMiLE box), and it SEEMS that we've gotten a new mono mix of "Cabinessence" and a new mix of "Wonderful" with additional backing vocals ... it looks like you were 100% WRONG.  ;)

I kid, of course.

Go on then................

Page 168 of the pseudobiography... so the author of the full "story" thinks it's a credible source.

Ooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I'm gonna have SUCH FUN with this !

It is from '(Not) My Own Story' is'nt it? I knew I'd read that quote before. Ooh, if I was Tod Gold I'd be ringing Mike Love to see if he could recommend a good litigation lawyer!

A mono mix of Cabinessence is pretty cool news I'd say - that chorus must sound incredible in mono!

If it is a new mix, and not a fold-down, then I hope they've taken the opportunity to boost "truck driving man", an opportunity they missed with BWPS.

Bummer about the heroes quote. Was hoping it was a new one.

Cool to hear Linett's done new mixes of these. I'd wager these are mixes from the box. Anybody with the mag able to rip these to mp3 please!? I will be buying the mag this week but my turntable doesn't play 45s!

Check your PMs

Desmondo, How I wish I could hear that single..........

i don't think it's any mistake that it's so low in the mix, originally or on BWPS

I agree - it's meant to be perceptible without necessarily drawing attention to itself at the expense of the numerous other things going on at the same time. 

Time to get a record player again... ;/  Geez...

Give me the multitracks, I'll do you a mix.....

With that, I MUST have this  ;D

I plan on getting a Personal Massage one day

I wouldn't mind hearing this in the evening (or PM as they say) today!

I haven't gotten any PMs so far on this board. Maybe tonight is the night?  ::)

can i get REDACTED sent to me via Personal Message?

I plan..... on buying the magazine  ::)

Oh come on...  Why buy something you can beg for?

I too would love to get a PM in the P.M.!

Do we know for sure these are new mixes? I hope Wonderful isn't just the box set mix with some yodel lay hee hoo background vocals flown in.

Would it be possible for someone to PM me with this?

how's it sound fellas

I'm curious about the mixes as well.  Does anybody know if they found the Cabin Essence multitracks?  It would be pointless to fold down the 20/20 version IMO.

And yeah, I would like to discuss this via PM.

Obsessive SMiLE fanatics and researchers can fill books with facts and speculation. 20 pages in Mojo ain't gonna turn anything new up.


Also, if someone could PM me the treat that would be great.

I too would enjoy a PM from anyone who wouldn't mind...

BTW, if this is a new mono mix of CE I'm gonna crap myself!

Yes, a PM would be nice. Thank you!!! :)

What is  this PM business? Could someone send me a personal message with an explanation please? Please, Maties?

A PM would also be welcomed and appreciated hereabouts, from any generous soul! Then if I can just figure it out from there....

Hello, but I do believe that's exactly what I said it was. Y'know, if folk don't bother to read posts, is there any point actually posting here ? Post #43 at 7.25pm (my time) yesterday.

Pretty good, pretty crisp, but audible surface noise.

Sounding good to my ears, and I love the added yodel bvs.

So do we think these mixes are going to be on the boxset? Or is this a MOJO-only thing?

Does that mean that Carl's 1968 vocals are being included?

Well... good question: given that aside for that maybe five seconds of additional bvs and "CE" being mono (which is something only the likes of us would even notice), they're versions readily available since 1993, I'd doubt it's a Mojo exclusive. But, to be honest, I have no idea.

I'd guess they're box set tracks, else why issue these mixes now, in this way? We've suspected there'll be a dearth of mind-blowing new material -  it's subtle things like this which will ensure we BriHeads will buy the box. This is their way of saying there's gonna be some fresh-to-us material.

What gets me is why Mojo? Isn't there an equivalent mag in the US?

Mojo is highly regarded in the US... although now it's taken to printing articles using quotes from a book that's been discredited for some 19 years, that might take a bit of a kick.

I'm following this thread for some time now, and I'd love to have a PM as well!

It's anyone's guess but I suspect these will be the box mixes. If they are predominately the same mixes that we know, but in uniformly consistent mono and with the occasional subtle enhancements such as the yodel bvs, I'll be very happy with that.

I wonder if they'll be one ace up the sleeve though. I am hoping for a H&V discovery. Perhaps a mix based on stuff heard on Mike/Bruce/Al's acetates. That would be sweet but, again, I won't be holding my breath.

Cabin Essence is not just a simple fold down of the 20-20 version.  The lead vocal is single tracked except for the "Home on the range..." portion.  Something sounds a bit different about the chorus as well, but I'm not positive. 

Though we don't know exactly what tapes they have/don't have...they could have made this mix from the 20-20 master, leaving out one of the stereo channels in portions to create a new mix.

Wonderful sounds almost exactly like the GV box set version except for the yodeling vocals, which have only been bootlegged without the lead vocal and in so-so quality.  This is definitely something new, derived from new or previously unreleased elements.

According to the sleeve both tracks are from the Box Set

have to say, the Cabinessence chorus sounds different to my ears also and struck me immediately but haven't compared yet.

Yes me too

The Smile you send out returns to you - hopefully

First time I've heard it in mono, other than that sounds exactly the same to me.

Listening again, yes, single lead and Mike's "Iron Horse" chorus vocal is pushed up a notch, and the "Truck drivin man'" vocal is also more up front and with a tad of reverb. I'm a technical ignoramus - could it just be one channel of the 20/20 stereo version ?

Just tried a hard left pan - sounds awfully like what's on the Mojo single. Anyone else care to try it and then tell me I've got cloth ears ?  ;D

BACK COVER

[attachment deleted by admin]

That could have been done through EQ etc but I think it sounds like they must have access to some multitracks to up Mike's chorus vocal and the truck drivin man - I would have thought that Carl's lead, truck drivin man and Mike's lead part on end would have to be recorded at different times and therefore on different tracks. Also didn't they record vocals over each section rather than the whole backing track for CE - may be mistaken

We shall see

In some other thread there was a link to a website where you could order this MOJO special. Can t find it anymore, could someone help, please?

You slipped that in before I tested my theory: sounds to me like a hard left pan of the stereo.

Try Backstreets in Cheltenham in UK

Interesting - how do you come to that conclusion??

I think that although the changes are pretty subtle, I believe it is more than just EQing the master - it just sounds they have done what they can with the multitracks - that of course could just be some vocals rather than the whole thing - the backing track may be locked along with some of the backing vocals on the chorus section

I put my Friends/20/20 2fer into the player and set the balance to hard left.  ;D

That is different to a mono mix though

Oh, for sure... but a pukka mono mix, or even a stereo fold-down, would have a doubled Carl lead, which the 45 doesn't. Not saying the 45 is one channel of the stereo version, just that if you hard pan left, you get something very similar. Try it.  :)

Listening to that lead single-tracked lead vocal, it's beautifully warm and intimate compared to the double tracked version.

And can someone remind me of some history here - it's Brian handling the words "home on the range" in each verse, right, same as he did the high notes for the words "I love the sound of her" on Good Vibes?

Add: in fact, listening to the 30+ Cabinessence files on my 'puter, they're all so completely and utter different that I'm gonna have to get the two-fer out and see how the new file compares to that!

I'm going to have to order this online now as nowhere here (Bath) stocks it

In the meantime, whilst Purchasing Mojo, I would love to hear these tracks!!

Who wrote the article(s)? I was hoping Sylvie Simmons would be doing it, although it doesn't bode well if one of the quotes has been lifted from the 'Autobiography'

There is another thing in the MOJO piece - a panel by Dominic in which he sets out his 10 musical stops to SMile

It includes Malibu Sunset, Moon Dawg, Lonely Sea, In The Back of My Mind....... Summer Means New Love, TLGIOK, and Pet Sounds

Under Summer Means New Love

"A refreshing pause after the amped up YSGTM : just as the vibes on Smile's Workshop cool the pace after Fire." - cough cough - discuss

And that BW/VDP Elements quote

"When we started Smile, VDP told me that there were going to be nature elements like fire water earth and air. He said, "We can do a little of each"".

Brian also says VDP helped him a little with the music

Reason for junking it - "only snippets ........ incomplete songs"

I think I'm one of the few that buys Priore's theory here. I think the last "thud, thud thud" drum beats of Fire move perfectly into Friday Night/Workshop. I also love the contrast of dark and scary into light and humorous - seems like the sort of juxtaposition that Brian would've intended.

 I remember when I first put them together after reading Dom's Smile book  I thought "well, that's obviously how those songs were supposed to be sequenced", and they still sound 'right' to me to this day.

I don't doubt Carol Kaye has been liberal with the truth when it comes to which sessions she's played on, but for her to come out and say these two pieces belonged together - there's no motivation for that. It could obviously be a mistake on her part, but they do sound great together so bit of a coiincidence if it is an error. Don't the times add up to an overall time for Fire listed somewhere on a session log or something as well? I don't have Dom's book to hand, but I thought the evidence was pretty compelling when I originally read it.

Yep me too - on my Smile mix ( i use the 2004 versions) Workshop sounds just right after MOC - I have also put IIGS back into H&V along with BY and OMP/YAMS and the cantina making it 8:15  >:D

That Heroes sounds like a winner to me!

Here's the section form the Priore book. I'd be interested to hear opinions on the validity of the following info, beyond the obvious "Don't trust Carol Kaye":

During the 1966 sessions however Brian had informed studio bass player Carol Kaye that 'I Wanna Be Around' and 'Workshop' had been put together as a 'rebuilding after the fire' - a coda. In 1988, Wilson also mentioned to Andy Paley that the musical reference of Johnny Mercer's song 'I Wanna Be Around' was specifically used to invoke the lyrical phrase 'I wanna be around to pick up the pieces of our broken love affair' - that is to say, picking up the pieces after the fire. In two places, and in two different eras, Brian had laid down clues to collaborators that the I Wanna Be Around/Workshop combination was a cool-out and reconstruction after 'Mrs O'Learys Cow'.

A check with the sessions worksheets shows that the original timing of 'Mrs O'Leary's Cow' was to be 2 minutes & 50 seconds, and that the two pieces of it - 'Fire (1:50) and 'I Wanna Be Around'/Workshop' (1:30) - added up to just over 3 minutes, minus any fades or mixdowns. These two sections of Mrs O Leary's Cow were recorded on consecutive days: 28 and 29 November 1966.

Thanks to a friendly forum member -- I never even asked for a PM! -- I've been able to listen to both of the tracks a dozen times this morning. "Wonderful" sounds great, and I think the brief "yodel-ay-ee-hoo" vocals fit perfectly; otherwise, it does sound pretty identical to the GV box. "Cabin Essence" is, in my best guess, a new mono mix and NOT a fold-down or a single-channel fake-mono track. The "smoking gun" for me is Mike's "over and over, the crow flies..." vocals -- they sound completely different than the 20/20 vocals (perhaps just single-tracked like the lead vocal?), and they are boosted quite a bit, especially at the beginning of the line. Compare the 20/20 mix with the MOJO mix -- just Mike's "crow flies" part -- and it's almost undeniable that this is a genuine new mono mix.

I'm no expert at identifying what's been mixed, how and where, but I can hear what you're saying - that crow cries lyric definitely sounds much clearer and more up front than on the existing mix.

I've sent the two mixes to a mate who is an engineer to see what he has to say - but I think it is a new mono mix simply because plain EQing couldn't achieve the differences

Here the guy who did the single cover art

http://www.art.co.uk/asp/search_do.asp/_/prints.htm?ui=FB547CF5E7CF4CF5951CA80787B81149&searchstring=sung%20kim

Does Wonderful end abruptly as it does on the 93 box, with the bass doing it's 'in between verses' thing, and then just ending, or does it fade?

It's the same quick fade over the ascending bass part as far as I can hear.

Yes, the ending to "Wonderful" is virtually -- if not completely -- identical. I listened to that specifically, because a lot of times you can tell from the fade if a song's been remixed or not.

But... this info contradicts itself. Yes, the 11/28/66 session for "The Elements (Fire)" has the track logged at 2.50. No argument. But the following days session for "Friday Night (I'm in Great Shape)" is not only a different session, it doesn't share the master number for "Fire". Plus, 1.50 and 1.30 adds up to 3.20, which isn't even close to 2.50 (it's over 17% more). Sorry Orville, doesn't fly.

If you listen carefully it fades but the bass continues in the background on its own (ready for SFC lolol)

Well, it's obviously not a fold-down... and I have my doubts it's a new mix, 'cause if it was, I'm they'd have come up with a mono doubled lead. I'm standing by what I theorised (until proven wrong) - it's a re-EQ'd left pan of the stereo master. If only because nothing else fits.  ;D

Hmmm... interesting. Just OOPSed the album track, and, allowing for  1968 tinkering and mastering the only truly full stereo element is Carl's lead. The track is mono and the bvs appear to be treated with lashings of reverb to give a stereo effect.

Where's Steve Desper when you need him ?

That's why I asked.  Thanks!

Hmmm -sorry Andrew but I respectfully disagree cos

1. the stereo lead may not actually be properly double tracked but rather the same track just done left and right and with one slightly delayed for stereo purposes - just one take - I know this from experience

2. Just re-EQ'd left pan? - to be honest that's just plain lazy and would be an aural insult to the song - I doubt ML and AB would just do that for the sake of their own reputations

3. I think I am right in saying that the backing track was edited together from the various sessions for each part and then the backing vocals were put on top of the assembled backing track and then finally the lead vocal was done - I believe to be able to make the changes in the MOJO mix they must have access to some multitracks - wasn't the backing track locked into one or two tracks and the vocals filled up the next five or six with space left for the lead - that would allow Mark and Alan the opportunity to properly create a mono mix from the multitracks - I don't think the changes are as a result of just applying different EQ to the completed mix - the levels are just to different.

That said happy to be PROVED wrong by ML or AB

But Andrew, what about Mike's "crow cries" vocals? They absolutely sound different (and louder) on the MOJO single. Any thoughts?

 I am hearing a couple of extra bass notes at the end on MOJO

Please May I just say that I don't have a PhonographH Machine, so even when I Purchase Mojo I won't be able to Play My single.

I'll share my packed lunch with you!

I'm chomping at the bit to hear this.........

I can't get past the fact that if it is a new mono mix, why the single lead ? Even in the world of the BB, and taking into account who's running the board, simply doesn't make sense. Time for a well-directed email, methinks.

DONG ! Lightbulb moment.  What if it always was a single lead ?  Can you say "ADT" ?

The MOJO mix lead could still be double tracked but because it is in mono it will be very very subtle

Listening on headphones - most of sounds like a single track but more so for the first half of each verse - the second half sounds slightly different to me - some more reverb or subtle double track

Also we have to remember that in 1968 SD and CW were creating a stereo mix from some thing that was supposed to be in mono?? - SD+CW is not Chuck Britz+Brian

Yes -- ADT was my first guess too, mainly because it SOUNDS double-tracked, but there are no noticeable differences between the "two" leads. No vocalist is THAT perfect -- not even a Beach Boy! But back to the Mike "crow cries" vocals -- this is the most glaringly obvious difference between the 20/20 mix and the MOJO mix. I've listened to both channels of the stereo mix individually, in mono, and in both cases Mike's vocals are quite buried in the track. On the MOJO version, he's right on top, clearer than ever before. I don't think it's just EQ. What else would explain it other than a new mix?

1 - yeah, like it just hit me... ADT.

2 - aside from Carl's lead, strikes me everything else is common to both channels, ergo a left or right pan would work.

3 - fair point... but what if those tapes were also junked by Columbia in 1967 ?

1. ADT??????? - being dim - what is ADT?

2. That would make the 68 version false stereo then - same track split left and right plus maybe centre, delayed tweaked, reverbed EQ'd - voila stereo

3. Fair point - but what if they weren't

But as you said a well placed e-mail would help

I count 6 bass notes on both versions. Pretty sure it's the same ending.

Automatic Double Tracking.

Ta

Think I got seven on MOJO  ;D

What an extra bass note between friends

Perhaps soMeone can share the wealth!  :afro

That is a single tracked lead, most definitely

Like Don't Talk on the stereo PS, maybe they only found some of the multi-tracks, or maybe Carl's overdub was added on the mixdown, (unlikely in '68, but possible)

I love it though, it makes it sound much more intimate, just as it should.

The Truck Driving Man sounds like it's been extracted with software, but this is just an MP3, so not sure. Whatever it is, it's nice to hear it louder.

Well I'm listening to the rip, not the 45 so that could explain it. Either that or I can't count very well.

We're through the microscope here people, arguing over a single bass note on one song! Think what's going to happen when this box set finally hits!!

Doesn't bear thinking about, does it ?  :o

I just compared the fade out on Wonderful from the GV Boxset and the new single - and they both have the same 6 notes. That said, the new fade out is louder and the last notes lasts just a bit longer. I had to boost the volume on the boxset fade out quite a bit to actually hear that last note, and on the single version I heard it immediately.

I can't count that well either  ;D ;D ;D

Probably six but maybe I was concentrating on that 'louder' last note  :P :P

Ha ha!

Hands up who's going to be hearing Cabinessence and/or Wonderful when they try to go to sleep tonight!  ;D

May be that's the plan - two tracks at a time - we can analyse them to death for a few months and they sort the next two

Actually it could be a game - AB and ML etc sitting in a studio watching this board and pissing themselves laughing as we dissect everything - They have probably opened a book on the wackiest post on this board  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

A little speculation on my part: Could be a typo. Whoever typed the session log was supposed to type "1:50" and typed "2:50" instead... After all, the number of the seconds is identical!

Guess I'll wait for the box set. Nothing really new here it seems... ;)

And meanwhile I'm listening to the 9-minute "Here comes the night" instrumental - with A LOT OF bass notes... ;D

Love the saxophone solo on that one - as well as the sax solo on "Goin on" w/the wonderful background.
Some late 70's/early 80's high lights!  :listening

Were those solos improvised - or did the boys write those parts??

Oh sorry to interrupt fellas, back to Smile... :)

 /B

Ok, just been on a 36 mile round trip to try and locate a copy of Mojo.. sold out everywhere! Either the print run was far too limited or multiple copies have been bought to sell on ebay >:(

Can someone make my day with a Pee eM so I can hear all?

Many thanks in advance  ;)

Having spent the weekend in Manhattan, I stopped into the Borders bookstore at Columbus Circle yesterday afternoon and was disappointed they did not have the MOJO issue available. Does anyone have any new information on which stores in the US may already be carrying it in-store without having to order online?

Artificial Double Tracking, to be pedantic.  (That's what its inventor, Ken Townsend, called it, and who are we to move his goalposts?)  Delay, in short.

This is the perfect appetiser for the box set..

Wonderful sounds incredible with the new part added, and the "over and over" part in Cabin Essence is louder, it hits you more.

can someone PLEASE PM me. I'm dying to hear this, can't wait till it hits the states. Thank you

Yes thanking you - used it myself many times and its such a simple way of getting a bigger sound

Where are you? I found a copy in Rough Trade East today, no problem.... They had loads on the counter.

By gum, does Wonderful sound great btw. The interviews are also not as bad as some make out - Although Brian seems kinda sad about it, there's a quote where he says 'I was tired of the pop song structure, I wanted it to be a departure. Overall we couldn't get through a whole song.' Which before people call phooey, is sorta true - What Smile song could you honestly say was 'finished' by May 1967?

 Loads of great photos in there, too.

You're right, the post '67 article is full of 'biography' quotes. A damn shame.

Some more on Cabin Essence

Well, I just synched the Mojo track and the '93 boxset track together on Cubase.

The first verse and chorus are completely in synch, not even the slightest hint of phase. The second verse and chorus go out of synch, but only because the edit has been adjusted.

The fact they are completely in synch would lead me to believe that AGD is right (again unfortunately). If they had gone back to the multitracks, you would expect there to be slight timing differences. Tapes stretch slightly every time they are played. This is almost certainly the version used on the 93 boxset, with a mix made from one side of the stereo pair.

If they had made a mix from the multitracks, you would have timing differences, however slight.

Unless they were working from the same material in 66, 68, 83 and 2011

It would also have been put on Pro Tools (ML did it for DS) so they would have been able to do a comparison and correct any major differences

Pedantic, no. Accurate, yes. I have no idea why I wrote "Automatic".

Re: Wonderful

Definitely a longer fade. The new background vocals sounded a little suspect at first. Thought maybe they used the boot version to fly those in. But after listening a bunch of times, I'm pretty sure the bg vox are from the masters.

Re: Cabinessence

This sounds freakin' awesome in a true mono mix. Single tracked lead > ADT lead. I'm hearing reverb on the vocals in spots that I don't believe were present in the original mix.

Overall, these new mixes are great. Can't wait to hear the rest of the "album".

On the MOJO version - the is a longer gap before the verse come back in - hope I got that the right way round ::)

I have serious doubts it's a true mono mix, in the strictest sense: I'm sure it'll all come out given time. However, just had it confirmed to me that Carl's 1968 lead was indeed a single track processed with ADT.

Listen to Mike's "crow cries" vocals again and compare them to the 20/20 stereo version. I've listened to BOTH channels isolated (in mono), and neither of them match the MOJO version. Mike's vocal sounds different and louder on the MOJO mix -- it simply CAN'T be a single-channel fake-mono track. And besides, that is the lowest, hack-iest move an amateur bootlegger would pull -- do you really think Mark Linett would put his name on such a thing? Reminds me of my old vinyl Beatles bootleg days -- Oooh, look! A mono "rough mix" of "Yesterday" without the strings! Amazing!!" Only it was just a single-channel outfake. It's offensive to even consider, but thankfully those Mike vocals make it virtually impossible -- and if anyone can re-create the MOJO mix with a single channel re-EQ'd, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks for getting that info - anything else we NEED to know :angel:

Do you mean PS? If so then I think all he did in terms of correcting differences was synching the vocals to the original instrumental multi tracks. This is exactly what I am talking about. When Brian dubbed the PS tracks down to mono onto an 8 track, and then rewound that tape 547 times whilst waiting for Al to sing the damn line correctly..... then the tape would be stretched, hence Mark had to make adjustemnts whilst synching it.

I don't know how the master for Cabinessence was made in '68, but I would suspect they mixed down what existed from '66 onto another tape, then added the leads and some sweetening. Carl was a great vocalist, but I'd be suprised it was done in two takes (one for each dub) More than likely there was constant stops and rewinds. Already you would have something that would not synch exactly with the '66 multi's

And I'm saying it synchs exactly - no phase at all.

This is one channel the 20/20 track, hence the single tracked vocal. There was probably good reason for doing this. Maybe they tried a fold down from both channels, and it didn't sound too great. Maybe they tried mixing it from one channel and found it sounded better, and they had more control over the sound. I don't think they were cutting corners, or being lazy, I think it would have been a creative decision.

And I think it sounds great, however they did it

No DS (Darian) for 2004 SMILE

And CE doesn't match, it does phase - there IS  a longer gap at the end of the first chorus before second verse comes in - suggesting either different edit, 66 mix or they simply have made a new mono mix from the multitracks/ProTools stems they had or found since 2003/04

I would love to contribute to this discussion, Perhaps soMeone would be so kind as to provide the necessary means  :angel:

I know, and Truck Driving Man is louder too. I think they may have extracted some vocals with software, easy nowadays, just to give them some more control.

And yes, if the '68 multitracks are missing, which they apparently are, then they didn't have much choice.

It is the same track, seriously, and I'm not criticising it, I think it sounds great

I hear what you are saying but its not the same - second verse starts in a different place to the GV Box set version - balance of vocals is also different

Respectfully of course  :)

Yes I mentioned that. The edit has been adjusted, it doesn't go out of phase, it goes completley out of synch here. If '68 vocals had been put onto the '66 multi's, then the whole track would be out. I only say this as someone who has spent many years working with tape.

And I could be wrong, I'd be happy if it was a new mix, I'm happy whatever it is.

And thanks again for the chance to hear it Desmondo.

Never worked with tape -  :) but done stuff on ProTools and Logic

Cos Smile is 97% edits - they could have just matched the vocal track up via a cut in its track to match the extra space in the gap - easy with DAWs - tape would be a much more tricky operation I would imagine

The balance of the vocals is different because it is only channel of the 20/20 version, and because they have put extracted vocals on there,...... maybe.

I'm thinking that is what they done, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has spent hours cutting little bits out of some of the SoT tracks to make them match up (and using phase cancellation to create home made multitracks, that probably wasn't done here.. not an ideal process.. anyway going off on a tangent.), I'd love to know how much easier it was to do for this than it was when ML done the same process for the Pet Sounds remix  :lol. I was thinking though for CE, would it be possible that (assuming only the 1968 stuff is AWOL) that an earlier mix or something was used, pre ADT, and that Mikes part (which I assume was recorded in 1966) still existed in multitrack, thus possible to remix that section ?

Oh, and again, thank you sir  :)

Not sure I follow.........bit late in the day. But yes, I don't use tape anymore, spent years missing it with my first forays into digital, but I've got a pretty sweet system now, and plug-ins to give it that tape saturation we know and love, but anyway, I won't turn this thread into something off the Hoffman board.

I do still double track all my vocals though, and have it down to a fine art

May is ask someone for a Piece of Marshmellow?  :afro

Went out today to try and pick one of these up. Can anyone pm me this stuff?

Let me try and explain with the proviso that I am no expert with Pro Tools but have used it and I may be teaching egg sucking

I have the complete backing track or the sections on one track which I can edit/fade together all the parts

If I also have the Carl lead vocal I can synch, EQ, edit, etc that to match the backing track - that is why the new "gap" doesn't make any difference

If then Mike's Over and Over was recorded separately and is on a separate track or even part of the Carl lead track I can put that on and EQ it change levels etc - I don't know this is true though from tracking dates etc

If I also have the backing vocals whether separately or as one mixed track I can also put those on top and repeat editing, EQ ing etc - even if they are mixed with the backing track the new gap wont make any difference

Perhaps a good example is the H&V building of the vocal tracks from SOT

Please correct if this is all impossible - it does of course depend on a certain number of multi tracks being available

I can then mix and master the whole thing to mono

Thank you for the marshmallow. They were yummy.

Glad they ere sweet - We are going to all become bloaters when this thing comes out - we've spent a few pages on just one song - any bets on how many pages for the complete set ;D ;D ;D ;D

Okay, I haven't even heard the new "Cabin Essence" (Perhaps I Might soon, along with the new "Wonderful"), but my understanding was that only Carl's lead recorded in '68 was missing; the chorus vocals and Mike's coda vocal exist on multi-tracks. I have no idea whether Dennis' "Truck Drivin' Man" exists apart from the finished 20/20 mix.

Am I totally misinformed here?

Also cannot find the magazine. By any chance, would some kind soul do me a favor via pm? Thank you kindly in advance....

Please, May I have one too???

will somebody play with me?

or post the dang thing to youtube already???

No, but what we don't know is if those multi-tracks still exist. Lot of folk here are assuming they do. We'll see.

 Poor Man, having to send all these emails.

But really, thanks - it would be greatly appreciated.

Well, I am a new member and I haven't posted here a lot, would it be rude of me to mention the I am keen to here those tracks and will probably Post More here in the near future with all this SMiLE discussion going around? I'll be grateful...

I think I need the right perspective maybe to tell.

I was looking in Liverpool.. thought WHSmiths woul have some, no sign in HMV either.. Mojo's lost sale was Apocolypse Now Blu Rays gain though! lol

And thanks for the Post Mortem!

Try again on the 15th, that's the official release date.

It seems some places got it early though

When I made my own mono fold-down of Cabin Essence, I used Cool Edit to "pan center left" before then combining the two channels.  I found that it pushed the vocals up a bit in a way that pleased me.

Can someone please share some of their Pancakes and Maple syrup? I didn't  have any breakfast today.  :(

I live in Sweden so I'm not even sure the mag will be sold here. Perhaps someone can give me a hint?  :hat

Thank you!

/B

I'd like to hear what Peyton Manning has to say about all this too.

Come on, people. Maybe you should all just buy the magazine yourselves.  :hat

Cabin Essence: After ABing MOJO and 20/20, I bet it's one channel of the stereo for the verses and choruses (as AGD suggests), and a remix from the multitrack for the coda - Mike's voice is just too up there in front of the mix (and crystal clear) to be from the 20/20 stereo, unless someone's did some outstanding EQ and mixing job there. And it's from 1966, so maybe the multi's still exist for this one...

Wonderful: As has been said.

On Cabinessence is even sounds like Carl's voice is mixed to be clearer in the foreground. Is it just my imagination?

Does it come with a turntable?? ;P

/B

Again, you're making the assumption the multi-tracks still exist. Maybe they do. We don't know. I'm sure the liners will explain.

Yes, I know what you mean now.

I suppose my point is, if Mark had got the '68 multitracks, which are rumoured to not exist, then it would make sense to synch them in with the '66 tracks. Now, it is extremely unlikely that that '66 backing track would synch identically with the '68 overdubs. The simple thing to do would be to just, as you say edit the vocal wav between words, then it's easy to make it fit. Now I'm sure it is possible to micro adjust the '66 tracks to make them fit the vocals, but why bother when the former way is much easier?
If they are using the'66 tracks, then I can't see how it would synch identically with the '93 mix.

Which it does.

Try putting a stereo Pet Sounds track next to one of the mono mixes from the 90's. Now I haven't  done this, but I can assure you they will go out of phase.

The '66 multi's must still exist, as there is a nice stereo mix of the track on the '93 sessions disc. As far as I know the '68 multi's are gone. 

The '93 mix is from 20/20

If the 66 multis were used in 1993, then someone did a very poor job, as the left channel is almost empty. Sounds to me like someone making the best of a bad job in 1968. Compare it with the following track for "Surf's Up", which has much more distinct separation.

I know I'm new to the community but I'd really appreciate it if someone could Point Me in the direction of these wonderful mixes so I could start contributing more to this thread.  :)

Always thought CE was pretty muddy - Spectorish even

Well, this is interesting.  The first verse of CE just sounds like the right channel of the 20/20 version, but the second verse has that touch of reverb on the lead that doesn't match the 1968 mix.   "Truck Drivin'" and "Over and over" do appear to be up in the mix, but I'm not sure how much of that is actual mixing or is compression/cutting/vinyl making voodoo doing crazy things to the sound.  Ever so slightly longer fade, too.  That's been mentioned, hasn't it?

If People Might be so kind as to tell me what this is all about

If the CE multitracks are missing, is it possible that what we have here is a mono mix which was made back in '68 for some reason ? Was this track ever considered for a single, or anything else in which a mono mix would have been made for ?

This thread makes my brain bleed. I may not be around this forum much when the actual box set comes out.

People May i Interupt and ask what's the Problem My friends are discussing.
I'd love to join in , i know thats just a Personal Matter of opinion i'm suggesting but I'd be really grateful to all those concerned

If anyone still hasn't got the link PM me and I'll sort you out

The only Cabin Essence tape that has ever been confirmed missing is Carl's '68 lead...which has now been confirmed as just a single track doubled via ADT (Which is why simply folding down the 20-20 mix sounds so awful).  The chorus and the coda vocals were recorded in '66 and they have the multis for these sections...confirmed by the contents of Secret Smile.

My guess: one of the channels of the 20-20 version for Carl's part + new mix for everything else.

This could be down to EQ'ing, but the "doyn, doyn" backing vocals sound higher in the mix on this version and Carl's lead is definitely treated to a little extra reverb on the "folks sing a song of the grange" line. Also, the chorus features better isolation of the individual instruments (I can finally hear the cello properly) which could be down to EQ'ing again. I feel about 60% certain that Dennis is actually mixed higher and 99% certain that Mike is as well on the coda (not just the result of EQ'ing).

Certainly some kind of multi-tracks exist for this song since the backing track was issued in true stereo in '93. The boots all seem to feature takes with chorus vocals and Mike's coda vocal, so I'm thinking those are around.

I don't want to put too fine a point on it - as AGD says, the liner notes should reveal all in a few months.

Both of these mixes (?) are absolutely excellent!

Could someone Please Make my day with these tunes?

I love them!!

Pardon Me, bu could someone please help me out too. Thank you!

Just heard the two.

Cabin Essence: Not sure if it's true mono but it's different that's for sure, ESPECIALLY the ending.

Wonderful: Those yodels have never sounded better...and this is on scratchy vinyl!

I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS SET ANY LONGER! RELEASE THIS NOW!  :lol

Is this edition available in Australia??

I'm with you, I think there is good aural evidence that this is a new mix rather than just a left channel reduction.  Whatever they did though, it sounds incredible, especially the chorus and the coda.  Mono really brings out the driving power of both sections.

Could someone please PM me the two songs? I realize this is my first post but I've been reading this board every day for about a year, and this seems like the best time to finally get involved. Thanks!

Yipes, all this stuff about stretchy tapes syncing could please stop now. Here's why.
It's obvious that whatever analog multitracks have been found over the years have been digitized along the way to avoid further degradation from wear, time, and, yes, okay, I guess stretching. Therefore, any mixes done from them in 1993 or now would sync. The timing in digital audio multitracks doesn't drift.
We got enough mysteries without this fake one.  :)

It's likely most heads will have imploded and no one will be around

It'll be like 2/20/04 times fifty.

Except on the blueboard. They'll be defending TLOS and Gershwin over this. Not that those aren't good or even great (Gershwin), but...not Smile. :)

Greetings,

I realize that it is probably gauche for a new member to Plea for that Mojo. But i'm a former member from ye olden days of the ol' Smile Shop board. Used to post a lot circa 2002-2005-ish. Went away for a long, long time, but started lurking when the box set was announced. I tried to register here in March but, for some unknown reason, i never received confirmation of my registration request being approved, so i figured new members weren't being accepted. Glad i decided to try to log-in today for the hell of it and discover that i could.

Anyway, i would be most appreciative and indebted to any kind soul who can Please Me tonight.

Oh, and hello to all the old folks from yesteryear.

Please May someone tell me what all the fuss is about?

Really ?

My ears, which granted are 55 years old and have inhaled, tell me it's probably not a new mix. Not entirely sure what it is, but ProTools and the like are wonderful things.

I don't know if this is germane to anything being done with the SMiLE tracks or not.
But there is a new software called CEDAR.. and you can seperate things locked together
on one track. I have never used it, and I know the results can vary from excellent to poor.
Depending on whats locked together on the one track.

All the tons of info related to SMiLE but I have not heard anyone say anything about
whether they are using cedar or not..

In theory you could take a single desirable overdub and seperate it from everything else
shape it in protools and use it on any take you wanted..

Does anyone know if they have been using it, it would open up all kinds of possiblities if they did.

Hmmm... sorry, but isn't this 'too much dabbling'?

It certainly can be, though obviously depends on the usage. I'm receptive to such software being used to isolate the spare overdub or two from a master tape for an otherwise-intact multitrack, but aside from the work done on The Beatles: Rock Band, I've yet to hear a mono-to-true-stereo remix that sounds releasable.

Well it depends, if you seperated the drums, bass and Keyboards all on their own tracks
you would have much more control during a new mix, or if you could seperate vocals locked in
with backing tracks, or vocals  locked in with other vocal parts, whatever you seperate you could
more fully control during any new mix, I would think it could be more of a godsend than too much
dabbling, the ability to seperate things.


I only thought of this because people were commenting on a backround vocal part flown in
over the top of the Wonderful promo single in Mojo magazine.

As Austin mentioned, the Beatles engineers used that CEDAR software and seperated bass and drums
locked together on one track and things like that, it was quite sensational.

Like a Proud Mother i awoke to see my 2 children back home, I'm very happy and excited

Wonderful there is a yoddle I'd not been aware of before thats quite hi in the mix around the 50sec mark?
Cabin Essence - also sounds like its been spliced with a new vocal mix (over original backing?) coming in around 1.58
at 2.24 there is a 'slight' click noise as if its a new mix? from here to the end to me this sounds new, or re-eq'd, slightly diferent reverb tone to what I'm used to as well


Sound quality and seperation is a step up from what I've heard previously - on the whole first impression is I'm excited. But I'm also aware these still dont sound from beginning to end as max hi fidelity original source music? it's done incredibly well tho? the end of CabinEssence sounds like Steve Hoffman's Pet Sounds - which does make me wonder if he's done similiar work here?

excited :afro :3d :angel: :smokin :hat :p 8) :thewilsons :violin :drumroll :drum :ahh :banana

Love the inscription on the run-out grove on the single " this doesn't have to be perfect "

Ah, that was a fine tradition... I have numerous LPs with 'A Porky Prime Cut' inscribed. Forgot what or whom it refers to...

I very much doubt Mr. Hoffman has anything to do with this 45.

That's exactly what I'm saying! I think you misunderstand. As this new mix synchs exactly with the '93 digital master of the 20/20 track, then this pretty much proves this is where it comes from, as any new mix from the older analog tapes would not synch.

And on closer inspection I'm going with what others are saying. The end is a new mix from the '66 multis. If you try to synch this up, it is going out of phase by the first 'Coollee'

I just didn't listen far enough in yesterday.

Anyway, if people are fed up of this I'll shut up gladly. I'm really happy with the mix, I think they've done a fantastic job with what is available to them.

It's infuriating, as we're hardly dealing with the highest quality source. MP3's of cheap, coloured vinyl. I'm sure if Mojo had stuck it on a CD, we'd be able to get a lot more out of it.

Listening to the vinyl on headphones last night, I do think they're new mixes, but then I am an eternal optimist. Where's yrplace when we need him....

Also, I think they'd started digitising the tape library three or four years ago? Although it's obviously possible the album masters were done earlier as they were all ready and hadn't gone anywhere, unlike the vast majority of the BB's tapes.

George Peckham of the UK.

It's only the tape synching I'm shutting up about.....

I think I mentioned yesterday that extraction software may have been used on Truck Driving Man, but having listened to one channel of the 20/20 mix, it does seem to be pushed louder when in mono. So not too sure.

And I'd have nothing against them using Cedar if it's done tastefully and well, and judging from these two mixes I don't think we have to worry.

I hear better quality mastering, I certainly hear (or deduce) new edits, I'm pretty sure I hear a hard pan to one channel of the stereo version in there somewhere: what I'm not hearing is any new mixing, just some re-EQing. I await knowing exactly what is going on in there.  :)

howdy aha, okay o well.
But can you see where i'm coming from (with cabinessence) tho, theres defntly a click noise just before the ending exactly at 2.24 - this HAS to be an edit noise, the fade out afterwards is a new mix and sounds different to whats before - i think the end is a complete brand new mix, now im guessing here but.... if this has been recorded at a separate date to the earlier sections would mean this section has been rediscovered, mixed and added on the end in place of what we used to have?

what do you reckon, seems plausible for me?

Probably reading this thread and laughing

The fade section was finished in '66, complete with vocals. Those multitracks are not missing. It's only the '68 multi's with Carl's vocal and possibly some sweetening that are missing AFAIK

And yes, it is a new mix of the fade.

But not the verses.

They've done what they could with what they had.

How about surface noise from a coloured vinyl 45 ?  ::)

AFAYK... ;)

My understanding is, he's currently engaged on a major archival project that demands his undivided attention. Allegedly.  ;D

I have noticed him lurking recently… maybe one day soon he'll throw us a bone   ;D

… or maybe he only drops by to pick up advice!







 :lol :lol :lol :lol

AFAYK? hahah erm what does it mean?

cool so i can see the end is a new edit and theyv spliced it onto the rest which has been tidyd up/cleaned/eq'd. what a shame theyv not got the rest - i love it.
was positive that click was an edit noise, I've had the same with using protools/editing before, think it because the splice may not have been crossfaded to the midge fly's zipper into the old mix. i of course may be wrong

Great job, real shame bits are missing to not allow the same happening with the rest of the song that happens with the end

Oh, I would be extraordinarily surprised if he didn't have a lurk now and then to see what latest mad notion we'd hatched based on shaky evidence, personal prejudices and a lavish supply of complete fantasy. I'm surprised he's got anything done for falling down laughing. Friend of mine took a peek recently, and offered this pearl from the Real World:

"You people should get out more".  :o

I'm sure extensive use has been made of the bifurcated double sploshing flange, as pioneered by Sir George Martin back in the mid-60s.

Or stop the devotion to one book!

You know...is it me or is Mike's "over and over" section sped up at the end? Sounds like it.

If it stays in digital sync with the '93 digital master of the 20/20 track then it shares a common digital source which means it absolutely is not a new mix from the multi-tracks. At least for the portions of the track that stay in sync. The tag could certainly be a remix but the main part of the track isn't. If this is really one channel of the 1968 stereo mix with the tag a new mix from a multi-track then it might not be the most auspicious start for the box.

I just don't think they had much to work with if they wanted the lead vocals on there.
I think they've done a lovely job, it sounds like a mono mix circa 1967 by a producer at the top of his game.

That"s a good point. If it's down to just using the standard 1968 stereo mix on 20/20, especially if the surrounding tracks are true mono mixes, then it might be the only other option. I haven't heard it yet save for on my el cheapo PC speakers. Generally I don't like doing things like tacking on remixed intros (or outros) tacked on the vintage mixes.

So. What are the chances that, given Carl's notorious privacy as to his "private" life, that the 68 multis are stored away somewhere in his belongings; uncatalogued and unknown even to his children?
He took them home, "locked them away" and forgot about them

Yeah. That's what I told my mum yesterday: use that bifurcated double sploshing flange more often in the kitchen. She totally, like, agreed with me, man.

That's what I noticed as well. Definately higher pitched than on the stereo mix or the beginning of the fade section. Not sure wether it's only Mike's vocal, or the whole song speeding up.

If they existed, wouldn't Billy H have interviewed them about what a sweet, nice bloke Carl was?

Oooooooooooohhhhh, I'd say, at a guess, roughly... diddly.

It just made me a little sad to think about these Cabinessence tracks and sessions and multis being discussed...remember that some of these group vocal sessions were filmed by CBS for "Inside Pop" with details like "Doyn Doyn..." noted in Oppenheim's notes, and I'm thinking unless someone has worked a miracle, these films will most likely never be seen. What better place to have them than this box set project? That is, if they were available to be had.

Am I the only one who does not want to hear any of this stuff until the whole package is released?  I haven't listened to any Smile music since the announcement was made, because I want to be as blown away as is possible when I put CD1 into my player and hit |>.  

I haven't listened to any SMiLE music since I heard BWPS was coming out

A sobering thought.

[reflective pause]

OK, now, about those (probably) non-existent multi-tracks...   :deadhorse

I made my last Smile mix on Feb. 19 (and was pretty happy with it) but haven't listened to Smile music since and like you intend to hold out until the box comes out.  We'll see how long I can hold out as various pieces surface...

I've wondered how I and others will listen to the box...all the way through in order, or go directly to the most tantalizing pieces first...

What is a 'Spolier', BTW?

Oh, it seems to be some Spanish tongued TV babe, go HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDKyf9pXm7I).

Gina (Carl's widow) returned all of the BB material that Carl had at home to BRI a few years ago.

I'm going to record it on tape( without listening, of course), and then play it backwards, so I can can get every secret nuance first.

Those f*ckers at CBS.

...only to discover that Charlie Manson really is all over the place, which will make you feel ashamed to own the set.

Has anybody posted the cover of the single yet? I looked back a couple pages but couldn't find it.

Computer speakers aren't working, but Cabin Essence sounds EXCELLENT on my cellphone's speaker.

AGD has it here somewhere.

Where can I find Cabin Essence on PC? This is URGENT, man!!!

I only listened for a few seconds thus far, but was delighted that the ADT on Carl's vocal was seemingly gone. That always bugged the heck out of me about the 68 mix. How did they pull that off if the multis from then are missing?

Edit: Looking now, seems this conversation's already kinda been run into the ground. Really hoping for mix notes etc. in the liner notes for this release. If it's just from making use of a left or right channel or doing fold-downs, I don't really see the point in doing so just for the sake of being mono. I had the same issue with the Purple Chick mix, which often had strange editing choices or poor source choices all for the sake of being stereo. Granted I'd expect much more care being taken on an official release, but still. If you have a stereo section into a mono section, I think our ears can handle it as long as quality is of the utmost importance. No fake stereo as in "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" plz.

We'll see, I s'pose.

Anybody know where I can get this special edition of Mojo in the States (other than EBay) ?

haven't seen it yet, but I know Barnes and Noble book stores carry Mojo. hoping to pick one up there tomorrow

You can order it from the publishers' (Bauer media) website direct as they do international shipping. Should probably be with you, oh, mid-September maybe…  ;D

www.greatmagazines.co.uk/store/displayitem.asp?sid=5355&id=44666 (http://www.greatmagazines.co.uk/store/displayitem.asp?sid=5355&id=44666)


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Dupe post by dope.    ::)

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I know for sure he read it the first time around.

Moderator!  :police:

Is there an echo on this board??

Yeah, was gonna check Barnes & Noble and Borders and a local brick and mortar store first before resorting to more drastic measures.....

Tomorrow, I will buy up all copies in my town. And then, out of sheer altruism, I will put them up on offer here. For a mere € 50 apiece.

Now ain't that something?

Tried around Dublin City Centre today hoping that some places got it a day early, no Luck, not even Tower records.

Gonna try on Thursday but I'm not getting my hopes up, if worse comes to worse I'll order online

Finally got the mag yesterday. For those in the UK that still can't find it, today is the official release day so you might find it's on the shelves now.

The most enjoyable and interesting part of the Smile feature is the interviews with Brian, Mike & Al, although there are no real revealing insights, beyond what we already know.

However, this quote from Al struck me as interesting:

"(Brian) wanted Good Vibrations to be the lead-off single for Smile."

I've thought for a while that GV was planned as the lead single, as it's the only song that sounds convincing following Our Prayer, to my ears. Even if it was only to be the lead single fleetingly, to be usurped by H&V, I really think initially it was in pole position, so this quote is of particular interest.

Some of the article is glaringly inaccurate however, they seem to think Surf's Up was written after SMiLE was abandoned.

Mike's interview is full of revisionism as well. Now my opinion of Mike-has softened in recent years, (I was taken in by the Hate Mike Love campaign in the early 90's), but Mike, just admit it, you didn't like it, you didn't want change. There's nothing wrong with that, it's understandable. We empathise Mike.....we really do, but be truthful. Don't go down Elton's route, don't have a hair transplant. Be true to yourself. We know you named Pet Sounds, but we know you hate SMiLE

Given the author, if that's the biggest error I'd be surprised.

Elton wears a wig.

Fair enough there are factual errors, but less in the actual interviews one would hope unless the interviewer is maliciously misquoting.

A new quote from Al saying GV was to be Smile's lead off single is definitely note-worthy, no?

Doesn't lead-off single just mean the first single released from the album?

Oh is that true? Where's the 'deflated' Smiley when you need one?!

I always thought it'd be slotted on Side 2, track 1, like they do with some singles.

*cue 2 pages of tracklist discussions*

Well I think this is the general consensus, backed up by its position in that slot on Smiley. I think the other argument against GV filling the side A track 1 slot is that by the time of Smile's release GV would've been older news.

However, I hear no better track to follow Our Prayer with, and so, at the time of that OP session where Brian describes it as a little opener to the album, I think he was intending GV as the lead track.

I also think (contrary to those that find it at odds with Smile) it is an excellent introduction to the Smile album: It's still grounded grounded in reality with its familiar r&b/doo wop hooks and boy/girl theme, but there's a sense of passing through the looking glass as the tune shifts into its various psychedelic phases, setting the scene for the weirder songs to follow ...

If you consider the original planned release, January 1967, GV wouldn't have been that old, only being available on Single for 3 months. That wouold certainly have been relatively timely.

Having heard the MOJO versions, i can't possibly top what's been said about Cabinessence, but I don't really hear much of a difference except in Carl's (lack of) ADT. Mike's lead doesn't seem louder, Dennis' bit doesn't really seem louder. Crisper perhaps. But i'll bear in mind i've only heard mp3s. Carl and Mike do sing their butts off though, i'll give them that.


As for Wonderful, I have a"friend of a friend" who has a version of Wonderful with the yodelling bvs but minus Brian's lead.

So... was "my friend's" version made by stripping Brian's lead from the tape (don't get technical on me), in the same way that we have multiple SOT versions of H&V with the vocal takes seemingly being "layered up"? Or have ML and AB created a new "kitchen sink" mix by flying in some bvs from a different take (a la Beatles Anthology? of which I am a big fan, despite others' opinions on the matter).

Or is it something else entirely?


I guess these mixes will be on the Box Set, but it looks like MOJO weren't granted permission to have some of the really revelatory stuff...just a couple of the "barely tweaked" versions to generate some fanbase excitement/discussion. Job done.

Got my Mojo today. Plenty of copies in Staines. Now what to do with the 45 as I've got no record player anyone wanna Please Me on hearing it would be great cheers.   

January 1967 was the second release date: original plan was for the Christmas market.

Well, there you go, then! The Christmas market would be November into December, with ads starting in October, so it should have been timed for an almost simultaneous release of the 45 and LP. And it fits the sound perfectly. 

I don't think GV sounds at odds with the rest of Smile, but i don't see it as an album opener. I see it as leading off Side 2 in the way that Sloop John B does on Pet Sounds.

I suppose that much of the production of it at least was finished in 1971. Apparently Brian came up with 'A childeren's song, won't you listen as they play...' on the spot. Did he remember something from 1967? If not, could that be considered finishing the song? What about Cabinessence? Some words and vocals were added in the backround in 1969. Or at least recorded.

Perhaps, the fact that they mixed recordings from the original Smile sessions with recordings from 69/71, that it could be considered finishig the song. Then there is Cool Cool Water which has never been thought of as a Smile song, only adding to a Smile section.

Except God Only Knows kicks off side two of PS..... Sloop John B is the last song on side 1!

Dammit, I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids!

Well, finally got mine today in Bath-I should've brought the record player into work!!

There were about another 8 copies left so if there's anyone on here in the UK who can't find it and have a Paypal account, drop me a PM and I'll see what I can do.

went to Barnes and Noble, but the shelves were filled with the old issue.  Said they get deliveries on Monday and Thursday, and maybe it would be in there.
But really the guy seemed less than bright, so it's anyone's guess when a new MOJO may show up here.  

Just to reiterate/expand upon what somebody else said. The phrase "lead-off single", in reference to an album, is just the primary 45/A-side that promotes the initial release of the album. It has got absolutely nothing to do with the track order on an LP. Back in the 'Smile' days these would be released just before, or on the same day as the LP. Sometimes they would be originals not on the album they were promoting (UK). Other times they were either just the same recording found on the LP, or a different edit/take/mix of said song (US).

For a long time now, however, it hasn't been unusual for the "lead single" of an album to be released as early as 3 months before the album...

GV is the opening track on my SMiLE mix... if it needs to be included at all.

It's obviously a strong track to open with, you get it out of the way, and Our Prayer sounds heavenly coming after it.

I'm with you to a point. I stopped listening to Smile stuff shortly after the announcement (in March?).

Then I reasoned with myself that BWPS wasn't actually the original sessions and was therefore fair game to listen to.

Now with these two tracks I had no choice but to listen as they are technically part of the boxset release!

However I'm finding they're all I listen to and I'm in danger of burning them out already so maybe back to the Smile ban for me*

*except BWPS (see above)

I can't get it out of my head how these reported mistakes and inaccurate bits of information managed to make it to this magazine and into readers' hands without someone editing the content.

Not to take it out on everyone involved because I have not seen it with my own eyes, but I've seen some of the most passionate, accurate, and informative writing on Smile and the Smile-era in general offered for free, coming from authors and writers (pro, semi-pro, and amateur) whose connection to the music is more honest than those hired to write columns full of factual errors and historical blunders. Mistakes happen, sure, and everyone is human, but it is hard to top some of the writing I have seen posted online. That is a testament to the devotion and knowledge of those fans who have added more to the Smile legacy than some people would give them credit.

So, I went again today, and they have a new MOJO issue, but NO 60's special; and of course they're less than knowledgable as to whether they'll even be getting copies. Called Borders and they offered much the same info. "Good Luck!" she said. 

So I wonder where usens in the USA can buy it...( if at all, other than mail-order) 

I do expect to see it in Borders and Barnes & Noble, but it wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't show up in those stores for another 3 or 4 weeks.  At this point, though, I'm not sure I still care very much.  From all accounts, the issue is a disappointment, and the Cab/Wonderful 45 is pretty much the only reason to bother with it.  The 45 is a nice collectible, and I might grab one if I see it.  If not, the same tracks will undoubtedly be on our forthcoming CDs.

OK I just put on the 45 to hear what exactly was done to the tracks. Cabinessence is as mentioned a mono mix. I'm leaning towards either a right only or left only channel fold-down to mono as it doesn't exhibit the electronic double tracking effect you hear if you do a fold-down mix to mono of the 20/20 version (or on the stereo 20/20 track if you simply play it as is on the album in stereo). There is no discernable addition on or processing of the track other than what is mentioned above.

Wonderful is the cleanest, non-muddiest mix I have heard of the Brian falsetto version. As AGD mentioned there is the "yodle-le-hi-hu" backing vox addition. Other than that the track is the same as the box set version. There were no hidden snippets in the roll.out grooves (at least none before my auto-retract arm mechansim kicked in).

Regarding the articles, I'll agree with everyone else - while they might be great for reeling in new listeners, there were a number of glaring errors which seem to reflect the hurried manner in which they were edited together.

well, yeah; the only reason I want it is for the 45! I can tell I've already read all I need to from the issue.  
I wonder if the recordings will actually be on the Smile Sessions when it finally hits the stores...

It says right on the yellow 45 "From the forthcoming Capitol release "The Smile Sessions"". I would tend to think both will be on one of the discs.

Have you compared Mike's "over and over" vocals on the MOJO single to the same vocals on the 20/20 version -- ANY of them, whether the stereo mix, a straight fold-down, or a left/right extraction? There is absolutely SOMETHING discernable going on there...

... or might be one of the 45s in the box.

I probably need to go back and refresh my memory as to what they're planning to be included; it seems like thousands of posts ago...

I did notice it being clearly from a different session (ie 66 rather than 68 vintage), but any major remixing - no. To these ears it just sounds less cluttered due to the missing ADT effect.

Since you've mentioned it, Andrew -- do you have any clue what IS going to be on the "bonus" vinyl singles in the box set? Any chance it will be the RSD 78? Because I've still got mine sealed, in case I'm going to get the same thing in the box....

That might be the other 45.

Truthfully, I have no idea.

I know I'm late to the party. Majorly. But if someone could help me out on that front, I'd greatly appreciate it. Turntable-less.:-(

Just noticed that that's on Side A. On Side B, there's ' "It just has to be honest" - BW '   ;D

Been looking for the Mojo special everywhere in Dublin but nobody has it yet so I caved and bought a copy on eBay..

The seller seems to be making a bomb from them, 10 copies selling out everyday

It can also be ordered direct from Mojo:  http://www.mojo4music.com/blog/2011/06/smile_its_mojo_60s.html

He was said to have presented it, not came up with it. No real way to know if it's from 66/67 or if it's from 71.

Anyone else think the backing vocals on this mix are ridiculously loud?

Yep, me.

Could somebody Put Me in the position to be able to hear the new "Wonderful" and "Cabin Essence" mixes?

Refuse to listen to new Wonderful till box set comes out, but if indeed it is more audible than every other mashed up version I heard, I will be in 7th heaven...too loud or not.

Lost Art I am totally with ya...this is going to kick such ass when it is released.

They're *too* loud, though. I mean it's an interesting listen, but if this is the mix intended for the best-they-can-do-with-what-they-have "album", then it's a tad disappointing.

Ugh, I can hardly wait for criticism like this to inundate us after the box set is released.

Z-share sucks. It won't work for me....anybody wanna send something in the PM not thru z-share?

They're *too* loud, though. I mean it's an interesting listen, but if this is the mix intended for the best-they-can-do-with-what-they-have "album", then it's a tad disappointing.
[/quote]

Agree! Strange mix indeed. What if the box set comes out and we all go: "oh nooooo"... ;D

Agree! Strange mix indeed. What if the box set comes out and we all go: "oh nooooo"... ;D
[/quote]

No one noticed that the lead, in fact the whole song, is also louder ?  It's a new mastering job, not a mix as is commonly understood. The 1993 box set version sounds lo-fi compared to this.

Still, I'm sure when Mark reads this - and he will - your 'comments' will be taken on board and duly processed.  ::)

No one noticed that the lead, in fact the whole song, is also louder ?  It's a new mastering job, not a mix as is commonly understood. The 1993 box set version sounds lo-fi compared to this.

Still, I'm sure when Mark reads this - and he will - your 'comments' will be taken on board and duly processed.  ::)
[/quote]

Then I hope that Mark does NOT read this forum. Because by sheer logic, on can deduce that the box will never see the light of day, what with all us grumpy, complaining, obsessive 'to each his own' types. It's simply never right with us. If push came to shove, we'd be able to get all BBs stuff taken from the market altogether, for 'extended revision for ever'.

Well said Don. Mark's a pro and we should have the confidence in him to do his job without advice from our rabble. Once the release date is known, I'll be setting a couple of weeks aside in my diary for the purposes of pure, listening pleasure.

That makes two of us then... headphones at the ready, a nice ale or wine on the side, and Brians 1991 autobiography for detailed consultation...

 :lol

Do you mean a la H&V's 1st verse from Hawthorne? As to the Box set, everything sounds lo-fi on it....I hope the SSBS has the songs slightly louder without the leads being obnoxious as they drown out the backing tracks.

I cannot pass judgement on the Wonderful's yodelaa-ee-oo bvx but if they are anything close to the way they are on BWPS I will be pleased. Purple Chic and others never had the vox loud enough.

Like most everyone else I don't know and have no idea what was done in the mastering process of these tracks. What I do know, and what everyone who is even a bit of an audiophile will probably say, is the majority of modern mastering is too damn loud and overcompressed to allow for that. McCartney had a quote about Paperback Writer being the track where they wanted a Beatles single to be as loud and as present as the Motown singles they were hearing - and he and others were saying they were all going for maximum volume at that time so their songs would cut through on the radio and jukeboxes.

More volume also comes with certain frequencies being boosted, and someone hearing a track like Heroes mastered in 2011's standards might feel a different texture or hear certain bands come out more than on, say, a 1991 version of the same track. That's basic audio most of us already know and can demonstrate in our collections. More details and different textures are heard until you push the volume level into distortion, so a "hidden" guitar part might suddenly jump out due to the mastering.

What I want to know is - as someone who has never "mastered" a song professionally but who has hired professionals to master mixes and songs I've been involved with - what is the mindset behind the current mastering of the Smile catalog? Was it going for a 2011 standard of higher volume and more compression to reach that volume (extreme examples being Metallica, Californication, etc...), or was a 1967 sensibility considered for these tracks?

Meaning were these tracks boosted and EQ'ed to sound good on ear buds and iPods and small portable speakers, or were they thought of and was the mastering performed as they would have been mastered for a 1967 release?

I know it's esoteric and wonkish to a point, but at the same time I'd really like to hear what the mindset would be going into a monumental project such as the Smile box set knowing it will be held under a microscope when it does come out. Were the final mixes mastered by Mark Linett as well, or did they send them elsewhere?

I'll be interested to hear what Starr and McCartney say about the SMiLE release in a few
months. I Know McCartney went to BWPS live in London.

Personally I think the Beatles could do more things, with three great writers, and a great
fit with their producer (Martin). However if this SMiLE release, on disc one approximates
a finished (nearly finished) SMiLE album.

I think it would be fair to say, that as great as the Beatles were, in 66-67 Pet Sounds and
SMiLE actually did surpass the Beatles. Tragically Brian Wilson thought he had failed, I think
that is one of the true,tragic ironies of the whole thing. I say that as a dyed in the wool true
Beatle fan, but fair is fair. Pet Sounds and SMiLE may be the best one, two punch in rock
history,At least arguably so.

Oh God I posted this in the wrong thread. it was supposed to be in the John and George thread, can it be moved?

You can copy and paste it.  :lol

Someone finally posted "Cabin Essence" from the single on youtube so us mere mortals can hear it (ahem).
http://youtu.be/8KntylDaudk (http://youtu.be/8KntylDaudk)
Boy, except for the surface noise—I think the infatuation with vinyl is anti-music myself—I've never heard this song sound more powerful. Great, great mix. In mono, this sounds like what I think BW had in mind all along: tender, spooky, ageless, and deep. It's also more complete-sounding as an arrangement than I've ever heard it before. I think they got the balances just right.
It's not the left side of the stereo mix. What a goofy idea, sorry. And If ya can't trust Mark and Alan, I just dunno what to say.

Someone finally posted "Cabin Essence" from the single on youtube so us mere mortals can hear it (ahem).
http://youtu.be/8KntylDaudk (http://youtu.be/8KntylDaudk)
Boy, except for the surface noise—I think the infatuation with vinyl is anti-music myself—I've never heard this song sound more powerful. Great, great mix. In mono, this sounds like what I think BW had in mind all along: tender, spooky, ageless, and deep. It's also more complete-sounding as an arrangement than I've ever heard it before. I think they got the balances just right.
It's not the left side of the stereo mix. What a goofy idea, sorry. If ya can't trust Mark and Alan, I just dunno what to say.

Ridiculous.

Vinyl infatuation? Naw. Vinyl snobbery? Yes.

imo.

 ;D

I agree. I've never understood how hi-fi enthusiasts justify surface noise (and sometimes low end rumble as is clearly heard in the two sides of this 45). I'd gladly sacrifice a little robustness in the low end and general "warmth" any day in favor of having no loud, distracting, unpleasant noise that was not in the original recording and not supposed to be there. And if you listen to mostly non pop stuff with much greater dynamic range (as i do) vinyl murders music recordings.

I haven't recieved my copy yet, and they haven't hit the magazine stores here in Sweden unfortunately.
Can anyone post a pic of the single? A large pic, preferably.

Since we're at it: the loudness mania is one of the most vile, evil, and misguided obsessions that I ever encountered in recorded music.

Why?

Let me take Bruce Springsteen as an example. In 1975, I purchased 'Born To Run' on LP. The sound was pretty muddy. A couple of tracks seemed to be in simple mono. Distortion here and there. I did not mind, because the basics for enjoying music were there, and perhaps the vinyl itself helped to make it sound good enough for me.

In 1978, I bought 'Darkness On The Edge Of Town'. A revolution seemed to have taken place at the Dutch CBS pressing plant. Up to that point, the prominent Dutch retailers always ran a special section of US pressings, because they tended to sound better (although they were on much thinner vinyl). But 'Darkness' sounded superb - perfect stereo, right channel separation, good low and top end, sibilants to die for.

Fast forward to 2009/10. I bought 'Magic'. I played it once. Can't listen to it. It's compressed, and mastered to maximum impact (for cheap listening devices, I guess). On a decent set, it sounds awful, unlistenable. What in God's name did producer Brendan O'Brien have in mind?

Unfortunately, TLOS by Brian Wilson has the same disadvantages, at least on the Euro pressing. I pray that the Smile Sessions won't have the same characteristics (and something tells me that they won't).

I didn't buy the yellow vinyl cause me too I think that "the infatuation with vinyl is anti-music" .


But I heard what's on the youtube link and it sounds like a remix, not a mere "remastering". Less reverb on vocals in the begining, clearer "choir" vocals on choruses, more reverb on "over and over ..." at the end.

However, this is difficult to tell exaclty because the bad sound quality of the vinyl rip.

I'm fortunate enough to lack the expertise to recognise all but the most glaringly obvious mistakes in the editing/mixing process. I think there's a lot to be said for not peeking behind the curtain at how these tracks are put together and just enjoying them at face value. Fair enough if that's your thing, and if it's your profession, then noticing editing/mixing mistakes is probably unavoidable.

For me, ignorance is bliss, and to maintain a high level of ignorance, when this is finally released, I'm seriously contemplating setting aside a couple of weeks to avoid all Smile related discussion boards where I know The Smile Sessions will be pinned out like a miserable lab frog!

Agree. Before you know, you're a Hoffmanite... >:D

Some previous edits and mixes was kinda "crude" (especially on "Do You Like Worms", the "Heroes and Villains" single) because -as Mark Linett said in his interview- some things weren't possible then. But nowadays technology is exactly what needed for this kind of project and I bet edits will be smooth and seemless, and overall sound quality will be better than on the 93 versions.

They are: "She's The One" is a mono track with truckloads of reverb, as is at least one other.

I bet it's 'Night'. And/or 'Backstreets'.

No one?  :-\

I've only seen small pics, and it looks incredible. Pretty much what I imagine when I listen to Cabinessence. A cabin in the beautiful mountains of California.

Here y'go:

(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/264350_10150668434055510_854765509_19499167_1251094_n.jpg)

Errr... shoulda took the 45 out first, right ?  ::)

BTW, it's not a poor scan - the mountains are that blurry on the original sleeve.

Here's the original painting:

Log Cabin Retreat (http://www.paintinghere.com/UploadPic/Sung%20Kim/big/Log%20Cabin%20Retreat.jpg)

It's lovely - true to the spirit of Smile. Thank you AGD!

(should I purchase it, after some reconsidering?)

Thank you very much, AGD! What a beauty.

What does the artwork for Wonderful look like ?

Is Wonderful on You tube also ? the new 45 version.

Wonderful's the b side so no artwork.

Anyone in the UK who struggles to find this, PM me as I have a spare copy which I will gladly sell via paypal.

Back sleeve is the credits printed over a row of tape boxes with the one for "Cabin Essence" highlighted.

And the answer to the inevitable question:

1233/7 - The Beach Boys
#250W - Vegetables
#18W - I Want To be Around/Friday Night (box number might be 418, unclear)
#252W - Vegetables
#026W - Cabin Essence
16W - Do You Like Worms

If, as I suspect, the W indicates a session at Western, then the two "Vegetables" boxes are from Smiley Smile, not Smile.

Many cheers -  new screensaver implemented!

And one day I would love to hike there…

Is this a new image Andrew, or the same that appeared in (I thinks) David Leaf's book?

And if new, does it tell us anything, erm, new?

Those anti vinyl posts are  ::) No offense meant but you need to talk to Desper!

You can contemplate all you want but I bet you a tenner you won't be able to stay away  ;D ;D ;D ;D - with respect of course

Firstly, my W = Western theory just died a horrible screaming death. Crap.

Comparing the back sleeve with the 1993 box booklet tape shelf photo makes it clear that the former is a new photograph, as the boxes are in a different order and include titles not in the latter image. The shot of tape boxes in the Leaf book is of much later tracks.

Any ideas on W???

To take a modern example, I would imagine and hope that the mastering will be similar to that of the reissue of Dennis' solo albums back in 2008...tasteful indeed it was IMO.

People talk about this 'extreme' mastering in such albums as Californication and Metallica and then mention TLOS in the same breath; TLOS was too 'loud' in parts I think but nothing like the 'extreme' mastering jobs mentioned, and I really can't see The Smile Sessions being anything like as loud as these!

Of course, you're right!

Do you own TLOS in US or Euro incarnation?

The only extremely loud Beach Boys CD that I own is Sounds Of Summer. It is so loud that you hear clipping on quite a few tracks.

I do have the Euro one.

In fact I just went back to my copy of TLOS and will concede that I grossly underestimated the degree to which some of the 'rockers' (Morning Beat, Goin Home) had been pushed to the limit.

However the point I wanted to make was that some of the other tracks do retain at least some dynamic range, although it would be pretty mental to have something like the opening piano chords of Southern California peaking at 0 dBfs (they're not far off to be fair lol).

(At the risk of derailing this thread any further, I also interestingly discovered that while Morning Beat peaks at the maximum 0 dBfs, Goin Home - while heavily compressed - seems to have about 0.6 dB of unused headroom!)

That's the reason why i hope Brian doesn't record his long-mooted 'Rock' album. Because it won't be Brian on piano backed by a rough but eager garage band, knocking out catchy 2 minute rock n roll numbers, but an overproduced, bland, mid-paced, highly compressed collection of four-minute songs with shitty Mertens cumstain sax that that has no merit to it whatsoever.

What brought that on? We're fairly obviously talking about the mastering.... sheesh.

Thought experiment, born out of an epiphany I just had:

in 1967 A.D., the project preliminarily called SMiLE was released, under a different title. Proceedings had been very secretive. You just knew it had to be something unique for a pop band at the time, or for that matter, at all times. You rush feverishly to your record store, and there's this on display:

(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/264350_10150668434055510_854765509_19499167_1251094_n.jpg)

I, for one, would have fainted. Out of sheer rapture.

surely an uncalled for attack on a most excellent musician !

Ok, is it shitty or cumstained? I'm confused!

Sleeve and package generally are rather lovely. Nice to see W H Smith (UK bookstore) selling records again! 8)
Wonderfu  yodels are quite subtly mixed in. Bass on Cabin Essence is superb.
This may have been asked in the previous 15 pages, but who's Dennis Wolfe?
There is surface noise on this but that's because it's a yellow vinyl 45. On the forthcoming LPs, I guess there'll not be much.
Curious fact - the grooves for side one are shorter than for side two, yet side one is 3.31 and two is 2.05 or whatever.

I agree totally. Man the fellow who even dared suggest that the 45 mixes were just fold down mixes ought to be publically executed.

That makes two of us - what a killer album cover that would have made!

Errrrr - AGD was that you  :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

I didn't even consider or mention TLOS - those are the extreme *to the extreme* examples I could think of immediately that are probably the most often cited when discussing the problems with modern mastering. Once someone gets away with that, others think it's OK to follow suit, and tailoring songs to sound a certain way over tiny ear buds while working out in a gym or riding a subway car becomes acceptable no matter how bad (objective statement...) the song might actually sound...and these songs are not mixed that way when the band gets done with them, it's in the hands of the mastering folks.

My really extreme historical example is one of my later Henry Mancini "Music From Peter Gunn" reissues, where they mastered it loud to the point of distortion on a few tracks, and that to me is akin to blasphemy since it is one of the finest and most sonically pure jazz recordings ever, a hi-fi staple for decades that was given the "modern treatment" and it killed my ears to hear it that way.

I'm not suggesting anything with Smile other than wondering who might be doing the mastering, thinking if Mark Linett did the mixing and assembly someone else would be mastering it. As of yet I haven't seen any credits for who was doing the nuts-and-bolts recording/mixing/mastering work on this project.

I doubt that's the reason.  It's probably just a noisy pressing.  Most of my colored vinyl sounds wonderful and plays without any noise fwiw.

I think Mark might have done both the mixing and mastering for the Pet Sounds Sessions?

If so I guess it is entirely possible that he will do the same for Smile.

http://austin2011.sched.org/denniswolfe

Credits on back of single

Mixed and mastered by Mark Linett
Mix produced by ML and AB

Not sure Mark will be mastering the actual box set though

Nope, I actually pointed out that if the "CE" was a fold-down, it would sound horrible due to the ADT. I suggested it might be a hard pan of one of the stereo channels. I'm sure we'll see who's right in the fullness of time.  ::)

Thanks for the info on the single credits! Joe Gastwirt mastered "Pet Sounds Sessions", but his name was mis-spelled in the liners (as Gaswirt). Usual procedures would have the mixing and mastering done by separate engineers through different equipment, but we can only wait to see how this Smile project plays out.

Man, I wish Mark Linett would jump in on some of these questions, he'd answer this stuff in a flash... :-D

I hear he's kinda busy right now.

Maybe we can catch him reading posts on a lunch break, get a few Yes or No answers from him... ;D

thanks for posting. Mike's lead in the coda has never sounded so pronounced.....Love it....I can't wait to hear the other mixes!

But you started it

No I didn't

Yes you did

No I didn't

Yes you did

See posts 43 and 90

Respectfully of course

Can anyone help me with this.

The picture of Brian on the cover of the magazine, is that a new unreleased one or does anyone have a copy they could post?

I love the idea that Mark has nothing better to do in his lunch break than read this board and post here! Surely he's got a real life – no-one's that sad! Right? Erm… 

I don't think Mark has time for lunch, dinner or breakfast; he's losing wight fast as he spends 24/7 working on this box to get it ready in time for its imminent and ever closer release date.

Actually, Mark has been quite kind in the past to occasionally post here and answer technical questions and correct misunderstandings. He has visited this site since the official SMiLE SESSIONS box set announcement, but has not commented. I'm sure once the set has been released, he will field a few questions and try to keep us in line...if we haven't completely torn each other apart by then!

Aye, I'm aware, I was just poking fun at those of us who seem to have been here 24/7 since March!

Guilty!  8o

As far as Mark answering questions goes, presumably Capitol would not be best pleased if he was giving away information before this thing is released. Might he even have signed some confidentiality agreement?

It's very likely that happened! Isn't it amazing to step back and think how all this revolves around music which is now 44 years old? Not trade secrets, not military-industrial espionage, not the secret data-mining formula Google uses to track web browsing habits...just a collection of unfinished tracks from 1966-67. Amazing. :)

It was Andrew who first suggested that it may one channel of the 20/20 mix. And it was me who synched the tracks and discovered that it most probably was.

I do hope tp god you are not directing this execution threat to me!

I expressed an educated opinion, and in no way criticised the track, and was careful to say that due to  missing tapes this was probably their only course of action.

I am always very respectful of other people on this site, even if I do not agree with them.

If this was directed to me booger fooger or whatever your name is then this is unacceptable. Don't even joke about killing someone. I find it extremely threatening and offensive.

Would this offend anyone else to be told you should be executed, or am I over reacting?

I'm all for debate, and have a thick skin, but I feel this crosses a line.

And if you don't agree with me, then synch the f*cking tracks yourself. To me it seems pretty obvious, unless you don't have the intelligence to understand  my earlier posts.

Aplogies to everyone else for this outburst, but this really p*ssed me off.

Off wit 'is head!!

Offensive.

And not just because I'm Jewish.

being Jewish would make you more offensive?

Are you... actually serious? Or do you just not spend a lot of time on the internet? A place where people say and do the things they can't in real life.

Now if he shows up at your house wielding some sort of weapon, you should feel threatened and offended.

:lol Stack-O-Tracks kinda has a point here.

The original comment was tasteless but obviously made in jest - however, I'd still feel odd about being told I should be publicly executed over something so trivial. Now, if I said that Summer In Paradise was a FAR better album than Pet Sounds, well, the person may have a point ;)

I don't get why Capitol would care so much. It's not like these are strategic weapons secrets. It's just a 40+ year old Beach Boys project! And honestly, people who are going to buy The Smile Sesssions are going to buy it no matter what information is or isn't leaked. In fact, a few more leaks would generate additional excitement for the release!  The only way keeping everything secret could be working out in their favor is if they haven't found much of anything that isn't already booted, meaning that we're only going to get higher quality versions of what we already have. That's why the "Cabin Essence" single didn't impress me much. For example - an unheard alternative "Heroes and Villains" mix - even if it was from a scratchy acetate - would've been considerably more exciting.

Don't get me wrong, getting high quality versions of what we already have is a GREAT thing, but it's not the earth-shattering breakthrough all the silence has some people preparing for.

Being a minority with our hardcore love of The Beach Boys, you would think at the very least that we would be more friendly and courteous to each other. We come together here to share our love of the band and music, yet we rip each other incessantly. Let's all stop acting like a-holes to each other. Let's Be Friends!

But right up there, you've said it all! We/Us/Them are all buying it anyway, why should Capitol worry what we think? 


Gee, I thought all of us are friends. Who else would take such abuse?

I thought so, as well. Hey, I'm guilty of it too. I'm just going to try not to say things here that I wouldn't say directly to someone's face. It is very easy to say mean & nasty stuff when you're behind the Internet.

It's not that hard to say it to a face. either; it's all in the delivery

Yes I am serious. I live my life by the simple rule of treating others as I wish to be treated. This is on the street, on the internet, in my dreams. Everywhere.

By your argument, where does it stop? Would it be acceptable for me to talk about murdering booger foogers family, or being rascist or homophobic?

And where are the moderators. Surely what he said constitutes a personal attack. Or do they only come out of the woodwork when someone says something mildly offensive about Mike Love?

Man just played the record. It is GOOD! Both songs never sounded so crisp and clear. Hardly any surface noise at all. Good pressing. I am excited now.

By the way the Beach Boys kick Brian's solo bands ass!

You're right, Smile is not sensitive govt information. However I remember signing a confidentially agreement when I had to do some artwork for an old Adobe Illustrator box so it wouldn't surprise me at all if Capitol/EMI want to totally control the information that seeps out before this is release.

Goodbye

Let's assume it was AGD he was threatening and all get back to being friends?

Andrew's assassin training (see alt thread about him wiping out posters on the old Cab' board) means he's impervious to threat.

And let's all lay off the caffeine.

Peace.

Iron Horse, do not throw your apples out the cart! I enjoy your posts so it would be a shame if you left.

I doubt a message board exists where posters don't hurl the occasional mildly offensive comments at one another, and of all the BB related boards I've visited, on the whole I'd say people here seem to treat one another respectfully. I can't speak for Mooger Frooger, but his joke just seemed irreverant to me, rather than a personal attack. After all, you weren't the only one who suggested it was a fold down!

Let's direct our frustrations at the lack of info coming from Capitol .... or the news that Frank Holmes' artwork may be jettisoned in favour of a Joni Mitchell self portrait ....  :ahh

Does nobody just enjoy the music for what it is period or is that just me? ;D

Yes come back Iron Horse

Yeah, I threatened to strangle some guys kittens once.

It was kinda fun. They made great gloves.

I know the discussion has been on cabinessence/wonderful but what's the mag like, any "new" photos?

Four or five.

cool  8), thanks

Yeah, Iron Horse! Come back. I did threaten to kill you last week and orphan your children and you didn't bat an eyelid, after all.... but it was all in good fun :lol

Very badly writen articles. I can't believe the Todd Gold is even used anymore. In the US it's been out of print since 1992.

Waaaaahhhhhhhhh 
See ya!

Go hug a rainbow, hippy!!

and you a rose bush, mofo! ;)

Hey , if you find one to hug, give me a call, I need the pot of gold!

Sloppy research. No excuse for it.

I wonder: the writer(s) in question get paid good money for their work. Yet many of us here could have done a better (sterling) job on the topic, and perhaps even under withholding all kinds of info (bleg-related) that would not have pleased the folks who permitted the free 45 to be released.

What is the world coming to?

I raised the same issue either here or buried elsewhere in another Smile-related discussion: How does this continue to happen? Quite frankly, I can name a handful of people - some professionals, some semi-pros, some amateurs - who would bring a level of passion, accuracy, and sheer enjoyment to a Smile writing project set for publication. I guess it's the way the system works, but knowing just how passionate and how obsessive fans of *this particular music* can be (I'm guilty as charged...), you would assume the pertinent facts would be checked before publishing an article. No one is perfect, but damn a simple call or email for verification to one of at least 20 people on this board alone could have made a difference.

Then again, even a place like McDonalds gets sloppy every so often and forgets the onions on your cheeseburger...out of an honest mistake or not giving a damn, who knows. :)

I was given a heads-up on how poor this might be some weeks before the special was out, and at someone else's urging I emailed Mojo, offering to proof and if needs be correct it, gratis. No reply.

And yes, I can't imagine a similarly significant Beatles piece going out without having been cross-checked with a minimum of five noted experts.

I think we might all be too close to the subject to give an objective view – that'd be why the mags commission pieces from journos, not fans.  That said, a true journalist wouldn't make such calamitous boo-boos… Aye, as guitarfool2002 says we all make mistakes – that's one of the processes by which the truth is eventually arrived at (as a journo I confess, mistakes, I've made a few) – but it sounds like these pieces are based on someone else's mistakes, mistakes which were outed long since.

I'm guessing that at least one might not get another commission from Mojo…

Journalism ain't what it used to be - facts no longer seem to matter

Who wrote the Mojo article? I remember being dissapointed with the big Smile feature Mojo did in 2004. Lots of references to the 'Earth Chant" and other made up merda.

Mr Mooger Fooger, who was the subject of what is commonly referred to as self-deprecating humour wrote on Page 13 of this thread:

"OK I just put on the 45 to hear what exactly was done to the tracks. Cabinessence is as mentioned a mono mix. I'm leaning towards either a right only or left only channel fold-down to mono as it doesn't exhibit the electronic double tracking effect you hear if you do a fold-down mix to mono of the 20/20 version (or on the stereo 20/20 track if you simply play it as is on the album in stereo). There is no discernable addition on or processing of the track other than what is mentioned above."

What do you know: Mooger Fooger suggested it was a left channel fold down. He then called for his own public execution after finding out it was a silly idea.

Let's friggin lighten up for Pete's sake.

Three articles:

Sylvie Simmons, pre-Smile

Harvey Kubernik, new interviews about Smile

Will Hodgkinson, post-Smile

just to add my 2 cents ...

i received this last night and played the record: i agree these tracks never sounded better.  i'm kind of an analog purist and i can usually tell when the vinyl was pressed from a digital source, and i swear this sounds analog.  i'm assuming it was edited digitally but my ears tell me otherwise.  for instance, i find the DW pacific ocean blue sundazed reissue to sound good but definitely sounds like a digital master.  i know i'm dreaming, but maybe they mixed it to tape?  we'll see ...

in any case, it sounds super good and i'm really excited, more than before about the SMILE box ... they really made these sound like true original beach boys mono mixes.

the magazine articles are fine, too ... i think these are the best Brian Wilson/Al Jardine/Mike Love interviews I've read in a long time.  Brian talking about what it was like to work on 8-track, Al and Mike both seem more pensive and almost cosmic/existential ... i think everyone's heads and hearts are in a good place and it looks like we're gonna see something very special here.  i can't think of anything negative to post about this magazine or the 7" ... it's really great news!

You're obviously reading a different magazine to the rest of us, then: the errors in the first and third articles are multiple and crass.

nah, i get that there are errors, and i'm not saying the writing is superb or anything (not on par with yours sir!) ... certainly looks like a rush job, and yeh, i'm not into the pseduo-autobiography quotes, just saying that OVERALL i'm quite pleased with the package and the good elements outweight the bad! it's written for those who are totally unfamiliar and i think it comes accross just fine ... i mean, it perpetuates the myth; i think that's kind of cool.  once people dig in, they will get to the real details.

and yes, there are limitations in what Mr. Linnett, Mr. Boyd and their crew had to work with (i agree that "cabin essence" sounds like the bulk of it was taken from one-channel of the "20/20" master ... it has that "20/20" haze to it ... EQ, solid-state board, tape bias, whatever the sheen was) BUT, it sounds GREAT, it sounds AUTHENTIC -- which is such great news that I can't really find fault or nitpick!

duplicate !

What can I say. I apologise wholeheartedly Mooger Fooger
I obviously didn't read back over the previous threads, and completely misunderstood
I know it's no excuse, but I periodically suffer from acute insomnia. I sleep for about an hour, then wake up unable to sleep again. After several nights of this I become over sensitive, paranoid and extremely irritable..
I apologise again for inflicting this on you.
As I say, no excuse, but an explanation

Normal service will now be resumed.

Ha!! Exactly what I thought. If this were the Beatles, everything would be painstakingly verified 10 times over to get every single fact right. ::)

Bought mine just for the pictures..

Honestly given up on anything BB Related ever getting it right, well apart from the smile sessions I hope  ;D

WOW!  There's a pipe dream.

The universe, perhaps?

Just to ensure I didn't miss out I ordered mine from the local newsagent. Still not arrived. Suspect it might be caught up somewhere in the Menzies/Smiths duopoly.

Have also ordered from the publisher but seems they're struggling too.

:(