Brian has signed off on Smile Sessions......

[guitarfool2002]

Going back a few pages, I am a little dismayed to see in the interview with Brian that he has "disapproved" some material. If it is anything that has been unofficially released, fine. But if it is ONE IOTA of any previously unheard musical fragment, that will be a crying shame and the set will be somewhat "compromised" IMO.

So what you are asking for is every single second of the Smile Sessions???

I'll second that! Every cough and chair squeak on those tapes, I want it!

[desmondo]

Going back a few pages, I am a little dismayed to see in the interview with Brian that he has "disapproved" some material. If it is anything that has been unofficially released, fine. But if it is ONE IOTA of any previously unheard musical fragment, that will be a crying shame and the set will be somewhat "compromised" IMO.

So what you are asking for is every single second of the Smile Sessions???

I'll second that! Every cough and chair squeak on those tapes, I want it!

Well it ain't gonna happen

[guitarfool2002]

Going back a few pages, I am a little dismayed to see in the interview with Brian that he has "disapproved" some material. If it is anything that has been unofficially released, fine. But if it is ONE IOTA of any previously unheard musical fragment, that will be a crying shame and the set will be somewhat "compromised" IMO.

So what you are asking for is every single second of the Smile Sessions???

I'll second that! Every cough and chair squeak on those tapes, I want it!

Well it ain't gonna happen

I was being as serious with that request as if I had requested they cut up the master tape reels into small pieces and sell them as limited edition collectibles suitable for framing. And for an extra charge, Mark Linett could autograph the individual tape pieces in grease pencil as he slices them up...numbered 1 to 2011.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Going back a few pages, I am a little dismayed to see in the interview with Brian that he has "disapproved" some material. If it is anything that has been unofficially released, fine. But if it is ONE IOTA of any previously unheard musical fragment, that will be a crying shame and the set will be somewhat "compromised" IMO.

So what you are asking for is every single second of the Smile Sessions???

I'll second that! Every cough and chair squeak on those tapes, I want it!

Well it ain't gonna happen

I was being as serious with that request as if I had requested they cut up the master tape reels into small pieces and sell them as limited edition collectibles suitable for framing. And for an extra charge, Mark Linett could autograph the individual tape pieces in grease pencil as he slices them up...numbered 1 to 2011.

Are you serious!!!! I think that's as likely as posting a humourous remark on here and not recieving a condescending reply from someone.

[FUN³]

Bill you really really need to place a mirror next to your bed and wake up to yourself!

blah blah blah

The "Wingman" has spoken. 90% of your post's are blah blah blah!

vs 100% of yours.

otm fishmonk. i've never seen 18thofMay post anything relevant in any thread he makes an appearance in. always appreciate reading your thoughts however. keep taking the high road and dont fall in with the dregs.


also wanted to address the issue of rock with me henry wonderful, it's brute force dada - the only similarity between his reappropriated "readymade" of the original dance with me henry and wonderful is the sexual innuendo. maybe that's the point of this awkward juxtoposition. that's also why it works for me in smile. smile is dada(or zen?  ) in its gratuitous reappropriation of standards into new and unexpected forms.

[hypehat]

Or you could see it simply as Brian experimenting with a different musical avenue - the jazzy, more intricate arrangement of that version - rather than any more knowing spiritual aspect? I think this is a crucial difference in our (including Bill and Fishmonk's) opposing viewpoints. I tend to view Brian as a more musical than a literate or intellectual kind of guy. He never seemed to spend much time either away from his piano or out of the studio, after all, and he spent a lot of time altering the arrangements of SMilLE material - Heroes chants, two separate Wonderful's, Vegetables, and more, but the lyrics rarely changed.

[Myk Luhv]

I wouldn't put much 'intellectualism' stock in a guy who says the thing he most enjoyed about France was the bread~

[FUN³]

I wouldn't put much 'intellectualism' stock in a guy who says the thing he most enjoyed about France was the bread~

when did he say that? '64? brian was exposed to so many new ideas after he made that statement. i would venture that he accumulated a profound majority of his intelectual growth in the time leading up to smile. people can change dramatically over even the smallest amount of time...especially when in pursuit of enlightenment.

i put alot of intellectual stock in the guy.

[Jeff]

Bill you really really need to place a mirror next to your bed and wake up to yourself!

blah blah blah

The "Wingman" has spoken. 90% of your post's are blah blah blah!

vs 100% of yours.

otm fishmonk. i've never seen 18thofMay post anything relevant in any thread he makes an appearance in. always appreciate reading your thoughts however. keep taking the high road and dont fall in with the dregs.

Agree on that one.  Some of fishmonk's other critics are sincere, and definitely offer good counterpoints.  But 18th of May just needs to be ignored, as he seems to offer nothing but one-line insults.  Fishmonk, you have nothing to gain by responding to him.

[Bill Tobelman]

French bread is awesome. Brian is right about that.

I think that reading Arthur Koestler is a very intellectual thing to do & so Brian gets kudos for that too.

It's interesting when Brian gives his "intellectual" explanation of the "Surf's Up" lyrics to Jules Siegel & Co.. It's very much in line with Koestler's documenting of the famous Night Journey motif (or the Death & Rebirth motif for those who remember my claim that "Surf's Up" is an ego death song).

[Bill Tobelman]

Oh yeah, I love the orchestration of the Rock With Me Henry "Wonderful." That music blends seamlessly into "Look."

Thought that "Henry" might have been studio engineer Henry Lewy who was holding discussion classes that Brian was attending (apparently about spiritual matters). Not that I want to suggest that there is potentially another level of meaning going on any kind of spiritual level or anything.

[Peter Reum]

I am not going to say that Brian reads War and Peace in Russian, but when he gets interested in something he investigates it deeply. He developed an interest in Native American culture and when I told my adopted sister was Native American by birth, he asked some very informed questions about Southwestern tribes. It was apparent to me that there were certain things which he had investigated deeply on his own, such as the history of music, astronomy, and certain spiritual traditions and ideas. He was also conversant in psychology, especially in some of the tpoics surrounding the effect of alcohol dependence on families.

[FUN³]

French bread is awesome. Brian is right about that.

I think that reading Arthur Koestler is a very intellectual thing to do & so Brian gets kudos for that too.

It's interesting when Brian gives his "intellectual" explanation of the "Surf's Up" lyrics to Jules Siegel & Co.. It's very much in line with Koestler's documenting of the famous Night Journey motif (or the Death & Rebirth motif for those who remember my claim that "Surf's Up" is an ego death song).

just bought a paperback copy of act of creation from ebay! looks pretty amazing from what i've read about it. thanks for the french breadcrumb, mr tobelman.

[Dunderhead]

Did Brian sip red wine and read Proust in the evenings? No. But I don't find it hard to believe that Brian read some books, understood the crux of the arguments they contained, and was influenced by those ideas as he planned SMiLE. I mean, lets face it, many of the books that we're talking about were written for the layman, they aren't rocket science. A lot of "psychedelic philosophy" books that were coming out in the 60s weren't dense 1000+ page Hegalian tomes, my copy of the Joyous Cosmology is less than 100 pages and includes pictures. A lot of this was aimed at your average person interested in separating the truth of LSD from media rumors and I would never describe any of these books as intellectual heavy lifting. We know Brian was reading this stuff, and there are pretty clear parallels between the content of these books and comments Brian has made about SMiLE. And to me, that's all there is to it.

It seems like an open and shut case, trying to explain these influences away by saying "oh well he wasn't REALLY interested in that" seem disingenuous. Yes, Brian sometimes went off on his own little whims and entertained a lot of little ideas, but I don't think you can take every influence you don't like and bust it down into the "whim" category along with 24 Hour Ping Pong Table Store.

I don't think Brian was some brilliant game-changing prodigy philosopher, but that's hugely different from just believing that he picked up on some ideas from a few pop-science/religion books he read.

[Dove Nested Towers]

Going back a few pages, I am a little dismayed to see in the interview with Brian that he has "disapproved" some material. If it is anything that has been unofficially released, fine. But if it is ONE IOTA of any previously unheard musical fragment, that will be a crying shame and the set will be somewhat "compromised" IMO.

IMHO, it's Brian's music from the ground up and he can do what he damn well likes with it.

Whether or not he has the ethical & artistic (never mind legal) right to do whatever he wants with it and whether or not it's a shame if he vetoes anything that we haven't heard strike me as two separate issues. He doesn't get to decide for us what level of investment, connection and wonder each of us has with this material, although I want to take this opportunity to thank him for going into this uncharted musical territory, at great personal cost.

Another view that strikes me is that one might say that at some point Smile was like an abandoned stepchild, and true believers kept its spirit and dream alive with our fervent worship of it, motivating him, with his wife and band's support, to assemble, perform & record BWPS, and then, whan we were still unsatiated, to give this project a reason to exist, to the point where we can almost claim part "ownership" of this music, since he renounced it for so long, and that we should be rewarded by being allowed to hear everything we want to hear.

That being said, if he did reject some material, (hopefully just that with either drug references or some of the "Smile-era party" type of stuff, and things that have already been heard), we can assume that it is still emotionally loaded for him, even after the catharsis of BWPS, or that he and his wife may have felt that something was inappropriate. If the former is the case, he deserves to be spared whatever pain might be caused by anything being released that brings back particularly bad memories for him.

Just ruminating here. There is arguably no other album that has inspired this level of passion in its listeners, and while it may be ethically correct to conclude that it's his music and he can do whatever he wants with it, there may be more to this particular case than that, from an ethical standpoint. I imagine I'm going to get a dismissive response from you, AGD, but so be it. As Ashe says in "Alien", I'm still collating....

[Andrew G. Doe]

Going back a few pages, I am a little dismayed to see in the interview with Brian that he has "disapproved" some material. If it is anything that has been unofficially released, fine. But if it is ONE IOTA of any previously unheard musical fragment, that will be a crying shame and the set will be somewhat "compromised" IMO.

IMHO, it's Brian's music from the ground up and he can do what he damn well likes with it.

Whether or not he has the ethical & artistic (never mind legal) right to do whatever he wants with it and whether or not it's a shame if he vetoes anything that we haven't heard strike me as two separate issues. He doesn't get to decide for us what level of investment, connection and wonder each of us has with this material, although I want to take this opportunity to thank him for going into this uncharted musical territory, at great personal cost.

Another view that strikes me is that one might say that at some point Smile was like an abandoned stepchild, and true believers kept its spirit and dream alive with our fervent worship of it, motivating him, with his wife and band's support, to assemble, perform & record BWPS, and then, whan we were still unsatiated, to give this project a reason to exist, to the point where we can almost claim part "ownership" of this music, since he renounced it for so long, and that we should be rewarded by being allowed to hear everything we want to hear.

That being said, if he did reject some material, (hopefully just that with either drug references or some of the "Smile-era party" type of stuff, and things that have already been heard), we can assume that it is still emotionally loaded for him, even after the catharsis of BWPS, or that he and his wife may have felt that something was inappropriate. If the former is the case, he deserves to be spared whatever pain might be caused by anything being released that brings back particularly bad memories for him.

Just ruminating here. There is arguably no other album that has inspired this level of passion in its listeners, and while it may be ethically correct to conclude that it's his music and he can do whatever he wants with it, there may be more to this particular case than that, from an ethical standpoint. I imagine I'm going to get a dismissive response from you, AGD, but so be it. As Ashe says in "Alien", I'm still collating....

You imagine wrong.    Here's my rationale: Brian won't veto any of the 'major' tracks (i.e. anything that on BWPS) because he doesn't have a leg to stand on. They're already out there. He may veto parts of the sessions for those songs (I for one can't see the "do you feel the acid yet ?" bit surviving) but those tracks are safe. As for the 2nd tier stuff, such as the chants and arguments, I can understand his not wanting some of those out (and hell, we have them already). Finally, I have the utmost confidence that if BW did say "no" to anything significant, old or new, either Mark, Alan or A. N. Other would gently but firmly persuade him of the necessity for including it, even possibly using the "actually, that's been out on bootlegs for two decades, Brian, it's even on YouTube (or was)" tack. We'll not miss anything new of interest.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Really Iron Horse-Apples?  Rock With Me Henry is your favourite version of Wonderful?  No disrespect, but I'm with Buddahat on this one.  Wonderful is one of my faves from Smile and the first time I heard the Rock With Me Henry version I was shocked at how it ruined such a pure and beautiful song.  I love Brian's experimentations but I feel like he realized that it just didn't fit with the vibe of the song and that is why it has never officially surfaced.  I was surprised that the SOT folks put it as the representative version of wonderful on the the single disc smile set.  Don't get me wrong I am happy to have heard it and i would be happy for it to be on the box set but I hope it doesn't make it onto the first disc of the 2 cd set.

But you are right the different stokes for different folks.  I have a soft spot for several BB / BW songs that others can't stand (Saturday Morning In The City and Make It Big are two examples of my guilty pleasures and I could name dozens more that many BB/BW fans have mocked me for enjoying...)

I prefer the sound of the harpsichord, it has a lot more depth to it, and yes I think the brushed snares work really well. It's not finished or even mixed at all, and I'll bet those drums would have been down in the mix had it been worked on more.

The whole thing sounds like it was meant to have a  lot more dubs put on it, and that snippet of Carl's sleepy vocal is so tantalising, before they wandered out for a spliff never to return.

And yes, I too love Saturday Morning In The City - a SMiLE melody if ever there was one. I think with a lot of Brian's 80's and 90's stuff you have to hear past the shoddy Landy Pandy production to the gems that are so often there. There are some great BW songs on Sweet Insanity, but it's hard to get past that production.

[Bill Tobelman]

I hope you're right Andrew. I still wish "Let Him Run Wild" was on the GV box set.

As far as Brian & books go there is the matter of personal interest which attracts one to certain subjects: you're interested in a subject so you read about it.

But in the competitive world-wide social change intellectual climate of pop in the mid sixties Brian appears to have been using books to help him compete. On the other hand Brian was being introduced to new realm of sensibilities and possibilities by friends as well as his own personal experiences and his choice of reading material reflected this as well.

Then there's the matter of what one "pick's up on" from the stuff they read. Reading The Joyous Cosmology may be a totally different experience for one who has taken LSD then for one who hasn't taken LSD. It likely would be a different read for a philospher than a follower. A lot of what one takes from literature depends on where they're coming from.

If anyone has been lucky enough to see Inside Pop: The Rock Revolution TV program they will likely notice that there are two languages being spoken, one by one generation & the other by another. What likely separates these generations besides age & life experiences is also the drug experience (at least in this TV program). That's not to say every younger person was trying these new drugs by any means....but the folks chosen for this rock music documentary (for the most part) seem to have this quality. Perhaps David Oppenheim purposely sought out such people for his film. In any case it is apparent that one side does not understand where the other is coming from...words don't seem to have the ability to bridge the gap.

What I'm trying to say is that it's important to try and keep things in perspective when reading stuff & applying it to SMiLE. Perhaps I'm wrong for doing this, or my assumptions regarding the past are incorrect or out of focus, but that's the tact I've taken and one I'd encourage others to take.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I hope you're right Andrew. I still wish "Let Him Run Wild" was on the GV box set.

2011 Brian is a very different person from 1993 Brian. Back then it took a week of gentle but increasingly firm persuasion to get him to agree to the inclusion of any original Smile material whereas as his attitude towards Capitol's proposal for The Smile Sessions when pitched was along the lines of "hell, why not ?".

[Rich Panteluk]

Thanks for the response Iron Horse Apples,
I'll give the RWMH version of Wonderful another spin or two with less prejudiced ears...
Hopefully the new box set will give several different satisfying versions of Wonderful (and all the others) to wrap our ears and minds around.

[c-man]

I hope you're right Andrew. I still wish "Let Him Run Wild" was on the GV box set.

2011 Brian is a very different person from 1993 Brian. Back then it took a week of gentle but increasingly firm persuasion to get him to agree to the inclusion of any original Smile material whereas as his attitude towards Capitol's proposal for The Smile Sessions when pitched was along the lines of "hell, why not ?".

Apparently he's a very different person than he was in 2004 as well...I remember him saying then something along the lines of "Hell will have to freeze over before I let Capitol release the original SMiLE tapes".

[seanmurd]

Apparently he's a very different person than he was in 2004 as well...I remember him saying then something along the lines of "Hell will have to freeze over before I let Capitol release the original SMiLE tapes".

When he was being interviewed about BWPS in 2004, USA Today asked him about releasing the BB tapes, and here's what he said: "Never. Those are gone forever. I don't want those made public because they bring up bad memories. I don't think about the old days anymore. I never do."

[Roger Ryan]

Apparently he's a very different person than he was in 2004 as well...I remember him saying then something along the lines of "Hell will have to freeze over before I let Capitol release the original SMiLE tapes".

When he was being interviewed about BWPS in 2004, USA Today asked him about releasing the BB tapes, and here's what he said: "Never. Those are gone forever. I don't want those made public because they bring up bad memories. I don't think about the old days anymore. I never do."

There was also a press conference from around this time where a reporter asked about the original SMiLE sessions and David Leaf responded that they'll probably come out eventually; Brian, who was sitting next to Leaf at the time, didn't blink an eye.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I hope you're right Andrew. I still wish "Let Him Run Wild" was on the GV box set.

2011 Brian is a very different person from 1993 Brian. Back then it took a week of gentle but increasingly firm persuasion to get him to agree to the inclusion of any original Smile material whereas as his attitude towards Capitol's proposal for The Smile Sessions when pitched was along the lines of "hell, why not ?".

Apparently he's a very different person than he was in 2004 as well...I remember him saying then something along the lines of "Hell will have to freeze over before I let Capitol release the original SMiLE tapes".

Steak & birthday cake. 

[drbeachboy]

With Brian releasing his own version of Smile, I doubt that he was very interested in talking about, let alone releasing the Beach Boys version of Smile. Releasing the Beach Boys version 7 years later is not an issue anymore. Plus, I think Brian is in a better way now with Smile. The demons have been lifted over time.