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Question: Should this discussion be moved to the Sandbox?
Naahh, Beach Boys, SMiLE and drugs is as on-topic as can be - 99 (67.8%)
It's about time, I've requested this at least 20 pages back - 27 (18.5%)
Who cares, it isn't going to be released anyway - 11 (7.5%)
I don't like drugs and I don't like SMiLE, we might as well delete this discussion - 2 (1.4%)
The SMiLE music and drug use cloud this discussion - 7 (4.8%)
Total Voters: 138

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Author Topic: SMiLE Sessions box set!  (Read 1750275 times)
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« Reply #6025 on: September 04, 2011, 01:11:09 AM »

He says that mostly when they go into the Barbershop section of the song.
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« Reply #6026 on: September 04, 2011, 01:37:18 AM »

The "da da da da dum" harmony part during one of the Wonderful verses from SMiLE is one of the most beautiful pieces of music I have ever heard. It's a lot like the flute in God Only Knows. It's only for a second or two, but it leaves you going "whoa, what was that?!".
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« Reply #6027 on: September 04, 2011, 03:26:13 AM »

Can anybody explain Wonderful to me.
TBH that's my least favorite smile song

What, are you crazy? Is it not beautiful? Is it not musically adventurous? Does it not have about 15 key-changes per second?



Oh man, the chord changes!
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« Reply #6028 on: September 04, 2011, 03:39:37 AM »

Testify. It is, hands down, the best example of BW's visionary approach to songwriting. It just completely disregards key.
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« Reply #6029 on: September 04, 2011, 03:55:05 AM »

I heard it was about a girl who got pregnant (and gave birth to her "wonderful" child) when she lost her virginity (to a boy who bumped into her "wonderful" reproductive parts).  It could have been speculation on the part of whomever I heard it from but it sounds right to me.

I got a similar vibe -  actually thought it was about a girl masturbating

"Left with her liberty" = private time?

"never known as a non-believer" - not into the denial that's often attributed to womankind;

"she laughs and stays in her won-won-wonderful" - no seeming end to the peak – the "God reached softly and moved her body" bit – lucky lass!

and the boy interrupting – "a boy bumped into her won-won-won-wonderful".

"Farther down the path was a mystery" – poetic way of saying she'd never gone all the way, sex was still a mystery to her.

I'd appreciate any enlightenment about the chalk & numbers (unless she's thrown caution to the wind and is now notching 'em up!).

Maybe I've just got a dirty mind…

We need answers, VDP!
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« Reply #6030 on: September 04, 2011, 04:51:06 AM »

Can anybody explain Wonderful to me.
TBH that's my least favorite smile song

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« Reply #6031 on: September 04, 2011, 05:07:10 AM »

Sheesh I wonder what Bill's take on this song is?
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« Reply #6032 on: September 04, 2011, 07:08:39 AM »

Wonderful is about a young girl... through the recess the chalk and numbers... and a boy, who bumped into her wonderful...

it's about a girl that leaves the school yard, leaves her friends, her childhood, her innocent play time, to travel down a path of mystery into the woods, and a boy follows her, and bumps into her......... you know how boys tend to bump into girls............

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« Reply #6033 on: September 04, 2011, 07:22:14 AM »

The characters: young blonde girl, her parents, boy.

she belongs there
left with her liberty


never known as a
non believer


she laughs and stays in
the wonderful...


In her childhood she is basically sexless/desireless, innocent & non-resisting her parents' directions.

she knew how to gather the forest when
god reached softly and moved her body


When her puberty began and 'God reached softly and moved her body' she knew how 'to gather the forest' without difficulty. She's like a deer grazing for berries. But for boys.

one golden locket
quite young
and loving her mother and father


Such a beautiful young girl devoted to her mother & father, still not wanting to give it up to a boy [i.e., transference of love-desire from seeking parental/divine approval to seeking a sexual mate]

farther down the path was a mystery
through the recess the chalk and numbers


a boy bumped into her one one one wonderful

In the due course of puberty she's feeling more strange things, strange desires. It's a mystery- where is it heading? She's on a path in the forest off the main trail. The other side is the school yard with the recess time and games. But she's heading into the mystery.

all fall down and lost in the mystery
lost it all to a non-believer
and all that's left is a girl
who's loved by her mother and father


A play on words here, the sort of things little girls sing on the chalk games 'all fall down...'
could be seen as other girls singing about their girl friend, the first to give in to natural mating tendencies
she lost all her aloof pre-sex charm to a non-believer, to just a boy without these higher qualities, just a boy...

she'll return in love with her liberty
just away from the non-believer


she realizes her mistake afterwards, he just wanted her wonderful, not love

she'll sigh and thank god for
one one one wonderful...


relieved that God's forgiveness is there for her, she accepts and sighs in relief at herself and life, at the boy, at her desire...

I'd like to meet this girl. She seems pretty easy. Just take her down a path into the mysterious forest and bump into her....  Evil
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« Reply #6034 on: September 04, 2011, 07:24:58 AM »

Wonderful is about a young girl... through the recess the chalk and numbers... and a boy, who bumped into her wonderful...

it's about a girl that leaves the school yard, leaves her friends, her childhood, her innocent play time, to travel down a path of mystery into the woods, and a boy follows her, and bumps into her......... you know how boys tend to bump into girls............



 Shocked and then?
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« Reply #6035 on: September 04, 2011, 07:26:40 AM »

Wonderful is about a young girl... through the recess the chalk and numbers... and a boy, who bumped into her wonderful...

it's about a girl that leaves the school yard, leaves her friends, her childhood, her innocent play time, to travel down a path of mystery into the woods, and a boy follows her, and bumps into her......... you know how boys tend to bump into girls............



 Shocked and then?

The couple later appeared on Jerry Springer to work out a few... issues.
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« Reply #6036 on: September 04, 2011, 07:37:56 AM »

LOL
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« Reply #6037 on: September 04, 2011, 07:44:30 AM »

The fact that certain tracks are or are not on the list has been a factor in whether or not those tracks have been considered part of the Smile "canon." For example, bits and pieces like "You're Welcome," "He Gives Speeches" and "With Me Tonight" are not on the track list and have been relegated to 2nd-class status as "outtakes."

If I remember correctly, Darian didn't present the list to Brian, but rather all the musical fragments he had available. I even remember reading that when Darian played "He Gives Speeches" Brian said right away "no, not that one", but I can't unfortunately name the source. Maybe someone else can, but I doubt I dreamt it.

Ultimately it was Brian who decided what should be on BWPS and what should be left off, regardless of the list. "Barnyard" is a section too that's not on the list and still it is on the album.
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« Reply #6038 on: September 04, 2011, 07:51:04 AM »

Wonderful is about a young girl... through the recess the chalk and numbers... and a boy, who bumped into her wonderful...

it's about a girl that leaves the school yard, leaves her friends, her childhood, her innocent play time, to travel down a path of mystery into the woods, and a boy follows her, and bumps into her......... you know how boys tend to bump into girls............



 Shocked and then?

The couple later appeared on Jerry Springer to work out a few... issues.

 LOL Superb...
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« Reply #6039 on: September 04, 2011, 08:01:53 AM »

Wonderful is about a young girl... through the recess the chalk and numbers... and a boy, who bumped into her wonderful...

it's about a girl that leaves the school yard, leaves her friends, her childhood, her innocent play time, to travel down a path of mystery into the woods, and a boy follows her, and bumps into her......... you know how boys tend to bump into girls............



 Shocked and then?

The couple later appeared on Jerry Springer to work out a few... issues.

 LOL Superb...


Read up more old timer, I did a verse by verse interp on Wonderful above your previous post.

I believe Wonderful was initially conceived as a music box sort of trip. just imagine a young girl playing Wonderful if it was released as a front or back side of a single. it would sound like a music box song. but wait, their words are strangely vague appearing to have shades of meaning - like russian dolls fitting into each other. and moreover, the words seem to be alluding to the loss of something, a girl's virginity, as a sacred thing, not just mundane, but sacred regard is given to it. lost it ALL to a non-believer. It's like Caroline No all over again - total melancholy, but the strange key changes and melody make the song forever feeling ethereal and mystical, fairytale and mythlike, a music box that just plays the one song, that goes nowhere and everywhere.

Wonderful transcends cultures. Some times it sounds like ancient chinese music. Other times like the finest Mozart. It's far beyond She's Leaving Home. When Brian & Paul played Wonderful/She's Leaving Home to each other on piano, I think we all know whose song triumphed in the feeling. There's always a feeling in a context like that. But Wonderful is so far beyond She's Leaving Home. Similar message in a sense, loss of innocence, but Wonderful is a unique piece musically. She's Leaving Home sounds a bit faceless. If you had anyone else play it...? I like the bit where JOhn sings and then Paul sings up high, very Brian.
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« Reply #6040 on: September 04, 2011, 08:09:23 AM »

she belongs there
left with her liberty
never known as a nonbeliever
she laughs and stays in the one one wonderful
she knew how to gather the forest when
god reached softly and moved her body
one golden locket quite young and loving
her mother and father...

farther down the path was a mystery
through the recess the chalk and numbers
a boy bumped into her one one one wonderful
na na na na na na na

hey baba ruba wababaru
hey baraba baba buuuuuu
don't think you're god
good vibrations
alright

she'll return in love with her liberty
never known as a nonbeliever
she'll smile and thank god for one one one wonderful
na na na na na na na


this is the smiley smile version. notice the smile instead of sigh. the middle interlude sounds like "the bumping". or like an unrelated interlude suggesting what is being deliberately omitted after the boy bumps into her "wonderful". perhaps that is what Rock with me Henry was going for but couldn't work due to the contrasting classical sounding harpsichord with the silly Mike Love vocals, but on Smiley the whole vibe is right for it.

carl sings the last line like a real perv
for one one one WONDERFUL

breathes it out like a girl who just had an orgasm
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« Reply #6041 on: September 04, 2011, 08:30:26 AM »

Wonderful is about a young girl... through the recess the chalk and numbers... and a boy, who bumped into her wonderful...

it's about a girl that leaves the school yard, leaves her friends, her childhood, her innocent play time, to travel down a path of mystery into the woods, and a boy follows her, and bumps into her......... you know how boys tend to bump into girls............



 Shocked and then?

The couple later appeared on Jerry Springer to work out a few... issues.

 LOL Superb...


Read up more old timer, I did a verse by verse interp on Wonderful above your previous post.

I believe Wonderful was initially conceived as a music box sort of trip. just imagine a young girl playing Wonderful if it was released as a front or back side of a single. it would sound like a music box song. but wait, their words are strangely vague appearing to have shades of meaning - like russian dolls fitting into each other. and moreover, the words seem to be alluding to the loss of something, a girl's virginity, as a sacred thing, not just mundane, but sacred regard is given to it. lost it ALL to a non-believer. It's like Caroline No all over again - total melancholy, but the strange key changes and melody make the song forever feeling ethereal and mystical, fairytale and mythlike, a music box that just plays the one song, that goes nowhere and everywhere.

Wonderful transcends cultures. Some times it sounds like ancient chinese music. Other times like the finest Mozart. It's far beyond She's Leaving Home. When Brian & Paul played Wonderful/She's Leaving Home to each other on piano, I think we all know whose song triumphed in the feeling. There's always a feeling in a context like that. But Wonderful is so far beyond She's Leaving Home. Similar message in a sense, loss of innocence, but Wonderful is a unique piece musically. She's Leaving Home sounds a bit faceless. If you had anyone else play it...? I like the bit where JOhn sings and then Paul sings up high, very Brian.

It interesting you bring up "She's Leaving Home" when discussing "Wonderful" because as I recall in the past there has been a great deal of discussion and comparison about the two.  I remember someone once bringing up the point that they viewed "Wonderful" as almost a sequel of sorts to "She's Leaving Home" where the protagonist returns home to her mother and father.  Obviously Brian has a great affinity for "She's Leaving Home" and has said so in the past and although being that the songs were written concurrently so that they couldn't have influenced each other, I've always wondered if Brian heard a little bit of himself in "She's Leaving Home"?

"Wonderful" is the better song though hands down.  As with most of the tracks on "Sgt. Pepper", the SMiLE material is at least a few plateaus above what The Beatles were creating at the time.  I don't want to get into a Pepper/SMiLE debate again but since you did bring it up part of the issue with SMiLE is that its not as accessible as what The Beatles (and a lot of Brian's contemporaries at the time were recording).  This was true in 1966 and quite frankly might still be true to some degree today.  I'm of the opinion in fact that their are still people (some of them in the business of reviewing records) who are still trying to figure out "Pet Sounds" let alone SMiLE.  Either way I've always felt that SMiLE is an album you need to sit down with and listen to a couple times before you can really appreciate all that is going on musically or lyrically.  Eventually I think you can get to the point where you can just pop it into you ipod or cd player in your car and just go but not initially.  I think initially something gets lost in translation if you approach this record that way and I think that would've been even more true forty years ago given what was on the radio for the most part in 1966.
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« Reply #6042 on: September 04, 2011, 09:25:16 AM »

Wonderful is about a young girl... through the recess the chalk and numbers... and a boy, who bumped into her wonderful...

it's about a girl that leaves the school yard, leaves her friends, her childhood, her innocent play time, to travel down a path of mystery into the woods, and a boy follows her, and bumps into her......... you know how boys tend to bump into girls............



 Shocked and then?

The couple later appeared on Jerry Springer to work out a few... issues.

 LOL Superb...


Read up more old timer, I did a verse by verse interp on Wonderful above your previous post.

I believe Wonderful was initially conceived as a music box sort of trip. just imagine a young girl playing Wonderful if it was released as a front or back side of a single. it would sound like a music box song. but wait, their words are strangely vague appearing to have shades of meaning - like russian dolls fitting into each other. and moreover, the words seem to be alluding to the loss of something, a girl's virginity, as a sacred thing, not just mundane, but sacred regard is given to it. lost it ALL to a non-believer. It's like Caroline No all over again - total melancholy, but the strange key changes and melody make the song forever feeling ethereal and mystical, fairytale and mythlike, a music box that just plays the one song, that goes nowhere and everywhere.

Wonderful transcends cultures. Some times it sounds like ancient chinese music. Other times like the finest Mozart. It's far beyond She's Leaving Home. When Brian & Paul played Wonderful/She's Leaving Home to each other on piano, I think we all know whose song triumphed in the feeling. There's always a feeling in a context like that. But Wonderful is so far beyond She's Leaving Home. Similar message in a sense, loss of innocence, but Wonderful is a unique piece musically. She's Leaving Home sounds a bit faceless. If you had anyone else play it...? I like the bit where JOhn sings and then Paul sings up high, very Brian.

It interesting you bring up "She's Leaving Home" when discussing "Wonderful" because as I recall in the past there has been a great deal of discussion and comparison about the two.  I remember someone once bringing up the point that they viewed "Wonderful" as almost a sequel of sorts to "She's Leaving Home" where the protagonist returns home to her mother and father.  Obviously Brian has a great affinity for "She's Leaving Home" and has said so in the past and although being that the songs were written concurrently so that they couldn't have influenced each other, I've always wondered if Brian heard a little bit of himself in "She's Leaving Home"?

"Wonderful" is the better song though hands down.  As with most of the tracks on "Sgt. Pepper", the SMiLE material is at least a few plateaus above what The Beatles were creating at the time.  I don't want to get into a Pepper/SMiLE debate again but since you did bring it up part of the issue with SMiLE is that its not as accessible as what The Beatles (and a lot of Brian's contemporaries at the time were recording).  This was true in 1966 and quite frankly might still be true to some degree today.  I'm of the opinion in fact that their are still people (some of them in the business of reviewing records) who are still trying to figure out "Pet Sounds" let alone SMiLE.  Either way I've always felt that SMiLE is an album you need to sit down with and listen to a couple times before you can really appreciate all that is going on musically or lyrically.  Eventually I think you can get to the point where you can just pop it into you ipod or cd player in your car and just go but not initially.  I think initially something gets lost in translation if you approach this record that way and I think that would've been even more true forty years ago given what was on the radio for the most part in 1966.

Brian played Paul Wonderful and Paul played Brian She's Leaving Home one day before Pepper came out and before Smile didn't come out.

I read that Marilyn was there. IT'S A CRIME THAT SHE HAS NOT BEEN ASKED ABOUT EVERY DETAIL SHE CAN RECALL OF THIS PARTICULAR MEETING.
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« Reply #6043 on: September 04, 2011, 09:32:58 AM »

I always thought that some of the lyrics were influenced by Ayn Rand's Anthem; I'm not by any means saying that VDP shared the same political beliefs with Rand or anything, but the fall after the GV box came out, I had to read Anthem in a philosophy class I was taking. The book is about a couple, the woman being named "Liberty 5-3000." I remember when reading the book that I saw some lines that were verbatim and near-verbatim the lyrics in "Wonderful," one of which being "Farther down the path was a mystery." That's all I remember off the top of my head...Someone who read my theory years ago asked VDP about it, and he said nope, no Anthem in it...too weird to be a coincidence, IMHO.
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« Reply #6044 on: September 04, 2011, 09:46:37 AM »

she belongs there
left with her liberty
never known as a nonbeliever
she laughs and stays in the one one wonderful
she knew how to gather the forest when
god reached softly and moved her body
one golden locket quite young and loving
her mother and father...

farther down the path was a mystery
through the recess the chalk and numbers
a boy bumped into her one one one wonderful
na na na na na na na

hey baba ruba wababaru
hey baraba baba buuuuuu
don't think you're god
good vibrations
alright

she'll return in love with her liberty
never known as a nonbeliever
she'll smile and thank god for one one one wonderful
na na na na na na na


this is the smiley smile version. notice the smile instead of sigh. the middle interlude sounds like "the bumping". or like an unrelated interlude suggesting what is being deliberately omitted after the boy bumps into her "wonderful". perhaps that is what Rock with me Henry was going for but couldn't work due to the contrasting classical sounding harpsichord with the silly Mike Love vocals, but on Smiley the whole vibe is right for it.

carl sings the last line like a real perv
for one one one WONDERFUL

breathes it out like a girl who just had an orgasm

Not sure about the rest of the interpratation but that kicker works for me whether it's right or not. Oh yeah.
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« Reply #6045 on: September 04, 2011, 09:47:52 AM »

Farther down the path was a mystery... you don't think VDP could've thought of that without lifting it directly?
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« Reply #6046 on: September 04, 2011, 09:58:06 AM »

I always thought that some of the lyrics were influenced by Ayn Rand's Anthem; I'm not by any means saying that VDP shared the same political beliefs with Rand or anything, but the fall after the GV box came out, I had to read Anthem in a philosophy class I was taking. The book is about a couple, the woman being named "Liberty 5-3000." I remember when reading the book that I saw some lines that were verbatim and near-verbatim the lyrics in "Wonderful," one of which being "Farther down the path was a mystery." That's all I remember off the top of my head...Someone who read my theory years ago asked VDP about it, and he said nope, no Anthem in it...too weird to be a coincidence, IMHO.

I don't think Van Dyke would've been influenced by ultra-capitalists like Rand. Wasn't he more of a socialist? But that's very interesting anyway.

And ghost, that's pretty much my theory about the lyrics in Wonderful too. It seems to fit the music beautifully in some way. Magical song
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« Reply #6047 on: September 04, 2011, 10:22:01 AM »

Wonderful is about a girl getting pregnant young, and then the young guy she got pregnant by dissapears as is bound to happen, so she only has her parents around.  The "wonderful" is the young life that came out of it, which mirrors her young life.  Recess/Chalk/Numbers is just about her school days, a poetic way to enforce her youth.  First verse she's a baby, she slowly grows up to teenage, has the baby with a 'non believer' which isnt' a religious thing,it's just a way of saying the guy wasn't ready to be a father and dissapeared.

SO, on BWPS you get the full treatment.

after that of course you get "Look", or "Song For Children" which is the baby actually being born.  So when the "BAT BATTA BADDA BADDA BAT!" part comes in with the piano just nailing it, that's the baby's outlook on the world.  He's hellbent on life, excited by everything he sees, amazed at the world, it represents the joy of new life.  The "good vibrations" lick is just a subtle little nod to the Beach Boys; when the baby sleeps at night he has a mobile over his headt hat plays the 'good vibrations' melody, lol.  At least that's how I Hear it.  You hear a beautiful little lick in the background of this song, with Taylor's voice (the only woman in the band) front and center echoing "I Believe....."

So then it slips into that moody part "Wheeerrreee isss the fatttherrrr?" that's the child's thuoghts about his father.  Loss, growing up without a dad, the sadness he'll feel from it, etc.

So they go through that a few more times, then slip into "The Child is the Father of the Man" which of course is the father's perspective on the baby he just created.  He's just panicked about the whole thing, and the song illustrates it musically, it sounds frantic and illogical like he probably felt when he found out she was pregnant.  "the child is the father of the man" of course is self explanatory.  

So then you have Brian's voice over, like God or the young man's father, "Easy my child; it's just enough to believe." (still trying to talk the young man into being a 'believer' instead of a 'non-believer".   "out of the wild, into what you can concieve; you'll achieve!" trying to explain fatherhood to him.  

So onto Surf's Up!  I won't pretend to know what Surf's up is complete about because I imagine it's been ruminated for years, but it certainly speaks of a 'growing up', or at least the maturity that people reach when they start to realize that civilization is often just a show, full of chandeliers, evening gowns, and plays only adults apprecaite and children ignore.  
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 10:23:53 AM by Ron » Logged
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« Reply #6048 on: September 04, 2011, 10:30:37 AM »

Farther down the path was a mystery... you don't think VDP could've thought of that without lifting it directly?

Knowing VDP, of course he could have, but the thing is there were a lot of other lyrical coincidences that made me think otherwise.
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« Reply #6049 on: September 04, 2011, 10:59:49 AM »

While we're on the subject, Rufus Wainwright recorded a pretty good version of Wonderful for the War Child Heroes charity album.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjxNh-u8Y1Y

I have to say that I also have a lot of time for of the version recorded with Don Was for the IJWMFTT album, but I don't think BW ever really found an entirely satisfactory arrangement of this song.
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