SMiLE Sessions box set!

[Jay]

Alright, I finally broke down and pre-ordered the 5 disc set for $174.73.     

[Andrew G. Doe]

There is also doubt it came from Brian, although no-one knows at this stage. Carl or Diane Rovell are other possibilities.

So you think Diane Rovell wrote the list, brought it to the Capitol art dept and told them "use these titles in the LP art" behind Brian's back? Even if so do you think Capitol would get to work on it without Brian's approval?

Peter Reum showed Brian the original list - not a copy, the original sheet of paper - and Brian said he'd never seen it before.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Somebody on here once posted an interesting story about the group getting ready to do a show in the early 1980's, and Brian apperently freaked out and refused to play the show because he saw the SMiLE cover artwork. I don't really remember the details. Maybe somebody here remembers it and can post the original story.

Not quite - on the 1980 European tour (in Sweden, I think), a fan handed him a copy of the front slick to sign. Outcome: one shredded slick, one confused fan and one freaked Brian.

[Phoenix]

Again, from the top, regardless of who actually wrote (down) the tracklisting, it was written and submitted to Capital to let them know which titles to put on the album covers that were about to be printed up.  There they are.  See label for sequence.  I can assume the tracks "missing" from the handwritten list are "Look", "Holiday", "Barnyard", "I Wanna Be Around", "Workshop", "Our Prayer", "Gee", and "Love To Say Dada" because they were all on BWPS (in some way/name or another) and they're all included on the "proposed album" on disc one of the pending box.

If that’s the case, the question isn't why are THOSE songs missing from the hand written list.  The question is why are the following songs missing from the tracklists for BWPS and the proposed album section of TSS:  "Do A Lot", "In The Cantina", "Fluttertone Horn", "Sunny Down Snuff", "Who Ran The Iron Horse", "Home On The Range", “Hum De Da”, “Piano Theme”, “Bridge To Indians”, etc, etc, etc.  

I can understand confusion from a novice fan but many of the people proclaiming the hand written list doesn’t match and much therefore be bullsh*t have full knowledge that Brian was recording things in a modular fashion at that time.  The only reason these sections (not songs) have titles is for reference (first by/for Brian and company and then by the bootleggers).  “I’m In Great Shape”, “Barnyard”, “Do A Lot”, and the intro for “Mrs. O’Leary’s Cow” all started off as possible sections for “Heroes And Villains”.  The titles made it possible to keep things straight.  After years or non-release the legends grew.  “Ooh!  I finally heard “Barnyard”!  I wish someone could find a copy of “I’m In Great Shape.”

We know Brian intended to use “Our Prayer” as an intro to the album.  Based on BWPS, he apparently saw it and “Gee” as a two part medley.  The reason IT isn’t listed on the hand written list is the same reason “Her Majesty” isn’t on the back cover of Abbey Road:  It’s a surprise!  But if you look at the label for Abbey Road (to see the sequence), it’s right there, just like “Our Prayer” would have been on the label for Smile.  (Had he not scrapped Smile, the Beach Boys and not the Beatles, would have been the fathers of the hidden track!)  

Everything else is there on the list.  The only things actually "missing" were the parts Brian hadn’t specifically nailed down and/or recorded:  The rest of “The Elements” and some of the editing decisions.  Anything else was either cut from the running order before the list was made or combined with something else and incorporated into one of the 12 titles on the list

The only one that I could see confusing fans is “Barnyard” and that’s just the first section of the medley referred to on the hand written list as “The Old Master Painter”.  That’s where it is on BWPS.  That’s where it is on TSS.  Odds are that’s where it was, once it was taken out of the running for “Heroes And Villains”.  

The only change between BWPS and TSS is the movement of the “I’m In Great Shape” section from the song referred to on the hand written list referred to as (obviously) “I’m In Great Shape”, which (until the compilation of TSS box) was always “I’m In Great Shape/I Wanna Be Around/Workshop”.  If I had to guess why it was moved it’s to give more of a sense of continuity when compared to the “Heroes And Villains” sessions disc, since it’s now grouped with most of the songs that had their (or parts of their songs) origins in that song.  

Again, I don’t mean to sound like a smartass.  Just trying (again) to try and clear up something I see asked way too often.  As I’ve said before, Smile is filled with plenty of mysteries.  (“What was “Air”??  )  The LAST thing we need to do is make more!  

[Jay]

*deleted*

[Jay]

Somebody on here once posted an interesting story about the group getting ready to do a show in the early 1980's, and Brian apperently freaked out and refused to play the show because he saw the SMiLE cover artwork. I don't really remember the details. Maybe somebody here remembers it and can post the original story.

Not quite - on the 1980 European tour (in Sweden, I think), a fan handed him a copy of the front slick to sign. Outcome: one shredded slick, one confused fan and one freaked Brian.

So even just the front slick was enough to set Brian off? I wonder how the rest of the group handled the situation.

When I first got the Knebworth 1980 dvd, I noticed that there were several large signs posted that said "Smile". Was that a tactic used by the group for Brian during that time period? Or was it something specific to the Knebworth concert and totally unrelated to the group? Either way it's very ironic.

[The Heartical Don]

I rarely, very rarely try to criticize what I find essentially excellent and entertaining discussions, even if I disagree profoundly with some statements or opinions. Everyone's entitled to her/his own type of particular admiration and wishful thinking.

However, what I find sometimes grating: people trying to 'better' Brian Wilson himself. The subtext seems to be (thus: not outspoken): well, Brian is nearly 70 years of age, he had his problems, he probably forgot a lot, he's being exploited by other parties, and so on - so he's not really capable anymore to hand us his own artistic vision of what SMiLE must represent, how it should sound, and in what order the music should be presented. We, as diehard fans, know much better, through years of diligent study; and we used a lot less drugs anyways.

Fan mixes and suchlike are all well and good.

But I vehemently oppose the above, and in my opinion arrogant position.

In 2004, and in 2011 again, we are finally getting SMiLE, made by, and/or presented with the full approval of the creator himself.

Often, in all those discussions about track lists, sequencing, whatever, I feel that this simple fact seems to elude some folks here.

IMHO the Brian of 2011 is just as qualified an authority on his own work as he ever was.


On this point (as on all others, BTW), I take him 100% seriously.

You won't hear me complain about a song or snippet having been glued in at the wrong spot.

Brian created it all, and messrs. Linett and Boyd did the groundwork for what is promising to be one of the greatest releases in all of pop music.

And now I need a cup of coffee.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Somebody on here once posted an interesting story about the group getting ready to do a show in the early 1980's, and Brian apperently freaked out and refused to play the show because he saw the SMiLE cover artwork. I don't really remember the details. Maybe somebody here remembers it and can post the original story.

Not quite - on the 1980 European tour (in Sweden, I think), a fan handed him a copy of the front slick to sign. Outcome: one shredded slick, one confused fan and one freaked Brian.

So even just the front slick was enough to set Brian off?

Even just ?  The front slick, in full color, full size, must've been like a nine-foot spider suddenly dropping from the roof for Brian in 1980. he was in a bad place anyway and to be confronted with a full-color reminder of his greatest failure...

[The Shift]

There is also doubt it came from Brian, although no-one knows at this stage. Carl or Diane Rovell are other possibilities.

So you think Diane Rovell wrote the list, brought it to the Capitol art dept and told them "use these titles in the LP art" behind Brian's back? Even if so do you think Capitol would get to work on it without Brian's approval?

Peter Reum showed Brian the original list - not a copy, the original sheet of paper - and Brian said he'd never seen it before.

I'm going from memory cos all my books are still feeding the mice in the loft but (if I'm remembering correctly) the spelling mistakes in the original handwritten list seem to be consistent with those on the tape boxes posted in this thread only a few pages back. Could that suggest that the list might have been written by an engineer? Maybe Chuck Britz?

Or was this one finally resolved a couple of years back? I remember a very in depth thread but don't recall the outcome (I don't have Andrew's admirable knack for recall).

[Andrew G. Doe]

The handwriting was judged - by amateur comparision (i.e. by us) - to be either Diane's or Carl's. Definitely not Brian's.

[Custom Machine]

To have been there at that time, with all the music in the air especially in 66-67 - it must have been incredible.

One interesting point to consider: I think George Lucas was going for that similar effect in a few scenes in American Graffiti. Lucas as we found out actually did some editing on the Good Vibrations promo film, and was in and around Los Angeles at this very time. I'm sure he experienced that if and when he was on the Strip.

Check out the American Graffiti scenes where the characters are driving around the town at night, and all the radios are tuned to "Wolfman Jack" on the radio. There is a weird audio quality to some of those clips, like a booming echoing sound, and I'd like to think it was Lucas trying to capture the effect he may have heard of all the kids in their cars blasting the same station playing the same songs driving up and down the street. It must have been quite an experience.

American Graffiti, which takes place in 1962, was based on George Lucas' experiences as a high school student crusin' 10th and 11th Streets in Modesto, California. Modesto was a relatively small town at that time, and just about all the cruisers were tuned to Modesto's one and only top 40 station, KFIV, 1360 AM.

Lucas undoubtedly had the opportunity to cruise along LA's Sunset Strip during 1966 and 67, and although the experience would have been quite cool, it also would have been very different than the small town experience depicted in American Graffiti.  In 1962 Modesto the majority of the cruise nite traffic on 10th and 11th (the cruise route was a big rectangle) consisted of teenagers who mostly knew one another and who were, as Guitarfool mentioned, all listening to the same station.  Driving the Sunset Strip in 66 and 67 tended to be more oriented toward reaching a particular destination, including LA's young adult clubs like the the Whisky a Go Go and Pandora's Box.  On the strip the kids didn't all know one another and there were a number of cool AM stations of listen to, including KHJ, KRLA, KFWB, KDAY, and the mystical (at the time) Wolfman Jack on XERB, not to mention 4 track and 8 track car stereo units.

[Micha]

However, what I find sometimes grating: people trying to 'better' Brian Wilson himself. The subtext seems to be (thus: not outspoken): well, Brian is nearly 70 years of age, he had his problems, he probably forgot a lot, he's being exploited by other parties, and so on - so he's not really capable anymore to hand us his own artistic vision of what SMiLE must represent, how it should sound, and in what order the music should be presented. We, as diehard fans, know much better, through years of diligent study; and we used a lot less drugs anyways.

Fan mixes and suchlike are all well and good.

But I vehemently oppose the above, and in my opinion arrogant position.

...

IMHO the Brian of 2011 is just as qualified an authority on his own work as he ever was.

Absolutely with you there. (Don't start singing that Smiley tune...  )

[SamMcK]

After reading some of the recent pages of Smiley Smile and Stevehoffman.tv I couldn't agree more with the Heartical Don! Also the wait is getting even more unbearable! 

[Dunderhead]

Has anybody ever heard "jazz" before? I'm still curious why that wasn't included.

[Boiled Egg]

Has anybody ever heard "jazz" before? I'm still curious why that wasn't included.

absolutely uninformed guess: it's the 'I Wanna Be Around' musoes jamming.  ergo, it's something with a multiple writing credit.  ergo, why include it?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Has anybody ever heard "jazz" before? I'm still curious why that wasn't included.

Just the crew dicking around... no big deal, no riffs later recycled. Tape was rolling, is all.

[hypehat]

There is also doubt it came from Brian, although no-one knows at this stage. Carl or Diane Rovell are other possibilities.

So you think Diane Rovell wrote the list, brought it to the Capitol art dept and told them "use these titles in the LP art" behind Brian's back? Even if so do you think Capitol would get to work on it without Brian's approval?

Peter Reum showed Brian the original list - not a copy, the original sheet of paper - and Brian said he'd never seen it before.

That's what I meant. Mr Moise also casually ignored my rather good point that the handwritten list is completely useless from a 2011 compilers standpoint.

[Andrew G. Doe]

BWPS as a template: sure, it's not ideal - the least worst option, if you will - but it's better than no template at all. The 2CD set is pitched squarely at Joe Q. Public, some of whom are already familiar with the 2004 release. Comfort zone... and maybe CD2 will make them think about springing for the box. We own the box: it's ours because we deserve it and I've a feeling we've influenced the content. Boyd* was a fan long before he started doing this.


[* isn't it odd that even his best friends call him that ?  ]

[tansen]

BWPS as a template: sure, it's not ideal - the least worst option, if you will - but it's better than no template at all. The 2CD set is pitched squarely at Joe Q. Public, some of whom are already familiar with the 2004 release. Comfort zone... and maybe CD2 will make them think about springing for the box. We own the box: it's ours because we deserve it and I've a feeling we've influenced the content. Boyd* was a fan long before he started doing this.


[* isn't it odd that even his best friends call him that ?  ]

Totally with you Andrew. It's a lot better than following some random bootlegger's tracklist, or even worse, a fanmixer's tracklist. I think it's totally and utterly awesome that we will be served with a 'as-close-as-it-gets' version of SMiLE. All the sessions will be awesome to hear too, but let's face it, we've heard hours, upon hours of smile sessions the last 20(or more) years. Getting an album with a nice flow from start to finish, utilizing vintage recordings, is just perfect.

And I'm a bit shocked over some people saying they don't wan't to spend more than $100 for a 9 disc set of this unbelievable music. I'd pay what it would cost, pretty much regardless.

[desmondo]

BWPS as a template: sure, it's not ideal - the least worst option, if you will - but it's better than no template at all. The 2CD set is pitched squarely at Joe Q. Public, some of whom are already familiar with the 2004 release. Comfort zone... and maybe CD2 will make them think about springing for the box. We own the box: it's ours because we deserve it and I've a feeling we've influenced the content. Boyd* was a fan long before he started doing this.


[* isn't it odd that even his best friends call him that ?  ]

Going on the Boyd thing - apparently Brian Eno is still called just Eno by his Roxy Music bandmates after 40years - they are the only people who do it - everyone else calls him Brian - old habits die hard as they say

[18thofMay]

Yeah sorry but $17o to pay for music that is litterally priceless is not too much of an ask! You have had plenty of time to save and if you have purchase inferior bootlegs Ir downloaded stuff over the years surely that has cost you the equivalent!

[desmondo]

I rarely, very rarely try to criticize what I find essentially excellent and entertaining discussions, even if I disagree profoundly with some statements or opinions. Everyone's entitled to her/his own type of particular admiration and wishful thinking.

However, what I find sometimes grating: people trying to 'better' Brian Wilson himself. The subtext seems to be (thus: not outspoken): well, Brian is nearly 70 years of age, he had his problems, he probably forgot a lot, he's being exploited by other parties, and so on - so he's not really capable anymore to hand us his own artistic vision of what SMiLE must represent, how it should sound, and in what order the music should be presented. We, as diehard fans, know much better, through years of diligent study; and we used a lot less drugs anyways.

Fan mixes and suchlike are all well and good.

But I vehemently oppose the above, and in my opinion arrogant position.

In 2004, and in 2011 again, we are finally getting SMiLE, made by, and/or presented with the full approval of the creator himself.

Often, in all those discussions about track lists, sequencing, whatever, I feel that this simple fact seems to elude some folks here.

IMHO the Brian of 2011 is just as qualified an authority on his own work as he ever was.


On this point (as on all others, BTW), I take him 100% seriously.

You won't hear me complain about a song or snippet having been glued in at the wrong spot.

Brian created it all, and messrs. Linett and Boyd did the groundwork for what is promising to be one of the greatest releases in all of pop music.

And now I need a cup of coffee.

Don

Well said - I just don't understand those who say they could do better or that Brian/Mark and Boyd have got it wrong - they are the only ones really - plus some of the BBs and Darian and VDP - who can claim to be the authorities on SMILE.

I have no doubt Brian has had important input into the whole of the boxset including the sequencing of the recordings which make up the album. He may be 70, been through a lot but musically I believe he's still streets ahead of anyone else when it comes to remembering stuff even from 66/67.

Mark and Boyd have been working on this stuff for many years and its eight years since BWPS. I have no doubt that research during that time has turned up new stuff and when it was clear Brian, the BBs and Capitol were serious about TSS, more stuff came out of the woodwork.

All we have ever had to go on about the sequence for Smile before Brian and VDP finished it in 2003 was a series of bootlegs, various songs that turned up other albums and BB releases, session sheets, a handwritten tracklist and recollections from people that were there at the time.

None of them really add up otherwise we would have had the tracklist sorted ages ago.

Instead we are left with a load of questions like what is Air, what were the Elements, etc etc etc etc etc which I hope should be answered in the liner notes for this amazing release.

If people want to do their own fan mixes then great but please no more Brian/Mark/Boyd have got it all wrong bull when the box finally appears

[smokeythebear]

One question, when did Brian stop giving more than one liner interviews? Landy era he was on uppers or medication to make him feel wired while doing interviews and during the seventies early eightise he was there was the coke. What and when did make him fall into silence is basically the question?

[pixletwin]

One question, when did Brian stop giving more than one liner interviews? Landy era he was on uppers or medication to make him feel wired while doing interviews and during the seventies early eightise he was there was the coke. What and when did make him fall into silence is basically the question?

There have been a few interviews recently where the interviewer has been able to put Brian at ease and he becomes quite lucid. I think most of the time he would just rather be somewhere else than being interviewed.

[JohnMill]

I rarely, very rarely try to criticize what I find essentially excellent and entertaining discussions, even if I disagree profoundly with some statements or opinions. Everyone's entitled to her/his own type of particular admiration and wishful thinking.

However, what I find sometimes grating: people trying to 'better' Brian Wilson himself. The subtext seems to be (thus: not outspoken): well, Brian is nearly 70 years of age, he had his problems, he probably forgot a lot, he's being exploited by other parties, and so on - so he's not really capable anymore to hand us his own artistic vision of what SMiLE must represent, how it should sound, and in what order the music should be presented. We, as diehard fans, know much better, through years of diligent study; and we used a lot less drugs anyways.

Fan mixes and suchlike are all well and good.

But I vehemently oppose the above, and in my opinion arrogant position.

In 2004, and in 2011 again, we are finally getting SMiLE, made by, and/or presented with the full approval of the creator himself.

Often, in all those discussions about track lists, sequencing, whatever, I feel that this simple fact seems to elude some folks here.

IMHO the Brian of 2011 is just as qualified an authority on his own work as he ever was.


On this point (as on all others, BTW), I take him 100% seriously.

You won't hear me complain about a song or snippet having been glued in at the wrong spot.

Brian created it all, and messrs. Linett and Boyd did the groundwork for what is promising to be one of the greatest releases in all of pop music.

And now I need a cup of coffee.

Don

Well said - I just don't understand those who say they could do better or that Brian/Mark and Boyd have got it wrong - they are the only ones really - plus some of the BBs and Darian and VDP - who can claim to be the authorities on SMILE.

I have no doubt Brian has had important input into the whole of the boxset including the sequencing of the recordings which make up the album. He may be 70, been through a lot but musically I believe he's still streets ahead of anyone else when it comes to remembering stuff even from 66/67.

Mark and Boyd have been working on this stuff for many years and its eight years since BWPS. I have no doubt that research during that time has turned up new stuff and when it was clear Brian, the BBs and Capitol were serious about TSS, more stuff came out of the woodwork.

All we have ever had to go on about the sequence for Smile before Brian and VDP finished it in 2003 was a series of bootlegs, various songs that turned up other albums and BB releases, session sheets, a handwritten tracklist and recollections from people that were there at the time.

None of them really add up otherwise we would have had the tracklist sorted ages ago.

Instead we are left with a load of questions like what is Air, what were the Elements, etc etc etc etc etc which I hope should be answered in the liner notes for this amazing release.

If people want to do their own fan mixes then great but please no more Brian/Mark/Boyd have got it all wrong bull when the box finally appears

Well I don't believe there is a right or a wrong when we're talking about SMiLE just due to it's very nature as an unfinished piece of music or album.  There is however a difference between creating something with an identity and creating something without one.  As far as the fan mixes go, some are obviously better and were given a lot more thought by their creators than others but all of them pre BWPS lacked some sort of uniformed identity.  I don't believe anyone ever hit upon the idea of the individual movements and sequenced their fan mix in that way prior to BWPS correct?  

What I'm driving at is BWPS gave a collection of songs which previously had no unifying shape an identity.  I'm not saying it's the right way to sequence the tracks or the wrong way to sequence the tracks just that it's easily the best job anyone has ever done making something cohesive out of the material.  Besides that, it's something that has already proven to be a commercially acceptable product and from that perspective that is all that really matters anyhow.