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634763 Posts in 25408 Topics by 3613 Members - Latest Member: Sunflower gal July 22, 2018, 09:33:37 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Vocal on 'Til I Die Tag on: Yesterday at 11:34:37 AM
I might also add that the group recorded their vocals on "Wake The World" without Mike, but it seems his voice was added to that one upon his return.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: Yesterday at 11:30:49 AM
The overall reason for both of them was supposedly boredom, in the sense of not making much new music - I think it was in David Leaf's book where I read this:  they were comfortable with the music and getting paid well, but didn't feel by late '73 (in Blondie's case) and late '74 (in Ricky's) that there was much hope for a real creative outlet. Blondie's frustration reportedly led to drinking too much, and the flareup with Steve Love (backstage at Madison Square Garden) was the tipping point, so he resigned then and there. In Ricky's case, the band imposed fines for drug use, and that reportedly led to his quitting and joining up with Joe Walsh (however briefly - though I don't think they were actually calling themselves Barnstorm by that point, despite what's been reported in various Beach Boys biographies - see this article: http://justbackdated.blogspot.com/2014/09/joe-walsh-april-1975.html)

As a side note: interestingly, Fataar and Walsh, along with the Walsh band bassist mentioned in the above article - Bryan Garafalo - all made contributions to the Boys' 1980 Bruce Johnston-produced album Keepin' The Summer Alive - Fataar did a number of sessions for that album, while Garafalo is the bassist on most of the songs, and Walsh played the very Walsh-like slide solo on the title track.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Vocal on 'Til I Die Tag on: July 20, 2018, 04:54:21 PM
I was more interested in who sings in the tag the complete "Until I Dieeeee". Listening to it yesterday on Serius, I too was wondering if it was Jack Reiley, as it sounds a bit like him and a bit unlike Brian or Dennis, the only 2 Boys it could possibly be.

If it's the line I'm thinking of, I discussed this once with Alan Boyd, and we believe it's Carl. It sounds a bit different than he would normally sound, but we think it's him. I don't believe Dennis is on this one - it was recorded while he was away filming "Two Lane Blacktop". Not that he couldn't have added a part when he returned, but I don't think he did.

c-man, this is very interesting.

Do you have a rough list of some other songs that are vocally missing one or more BB members? (Not referring to "solo" vocal songs like Caroline, No, but songs where there's a vocal blend, and where avid BB listeners might have assumed for years that all the group was singing, and it would be a surprise, like with 'Til I Die, that someone is missing from the blend.)


Well...Mike's absent from a few Friends songs like "Little Bird", "Friends", "When A Man Needs A Woman", and "Be Here In The Mornin'" (his spot on the latter was filled by Murry). And on the Sunflower album, all of the vocals on "Forever" were reportedly sung by the Wilson brothers initially (then Mike was added in a few spots for the final mix), while on "Our Sweet Love", I just hear Brian, Carl, and Al. 


Interesting. And all of those Friends songs without Mike's vocals are due to his India trip with The Beatles, right?
I wonder if Murry would have come into the studio to sing had Mike not gone to India.

A recent auction lot revealed a letter which Brian Wilson wrote to the Maharishi explaining how Mike was needed to come back to the states to work on the album. If I can find the actual letter or text of that letter, I'll post it.

But yeah, Mike was MIA studying meditation when the album was being worked on in the states and a letter exists asking the Maharishi to allow him to come back.

Not sure if that lines up with tracks where Mike is not involved, but it wouldn't be surprising if that was the reason he's not on those tracks.

The timeline of when those songs were recorded does indeed line up with the time Mike was in India.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Vocal on 'Til I Die Tag on: July 20, 2018, 04:43:59 AM
I was more interested in who sings in the tag the complete "Until I Dieeeee". Listening to it yesterday on Serius, I too was wondering if it was Jack Reiley, as it sounds a bit like him and a bit unlike Brian or Dennis, the only 2 Boys it could possibly be.

If it's the line I'm thinking of, I discussed this once with Alan Boyd, and we believe it's Carl. It sounds a bit different than he would normally sound, but we think it's him. I don't believe Dennis is on this one - it was recorded while he was away filming "Two Lane Blacktop". Not that he couldn't have added a part when he returned, but I don't think he did.

c-man, this is very interesting.

Do you have a rough list of some other songs that are vocally missing one or more BB members? (Not referring to "solo" vocal songs like Caroline, No, but songs where there's a vocal blend, and where avid BB listeners might have assumed for years that all the group was singing, and it would be a surprise, like with 'Til I Die, that someone is missing from the blend.)


Well...Mike's absent from a few Friends songs like "Little Bird", "Friends", "When A Man Needs A Woman", and "Be Here In The Mornin'" (his spot on the latter was filled by Murry). And on the Sunflower album, all of the vocals on "Forever" were reportedly sung by the Wilson brothers initially (then Mike was added in a few spots for the final mix), while on "Our Sweet Love", I just hear Brian, Carl, and Al. 
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Vocal on 'Til I Die Tag on: July 19, 2018, 04:48:06 AM
I was more interested in who sings in the tag the complete "Until I Dieeeee". Listening to it yesterday on Serius, I too was wondering if it was Jack Reiley, as it sounds a bit like him and a bit unlike Brian or Dennis, the only 2 Boys it could possibly be.

If it's the line I'm thinking of, I discussed this once with Alan Boyd, and we believe it's Carl. It sounds a bit different than he would normally sound, but we think it's him. I don't believe Dennis is on this one - it was recorded while he was away filming "Two Lane Blacktop". Not that he couldn't have added a part when he returned, but I don't think he did.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carl or Brian on God Only Knows? on: July 18, 2018, 05:21:12 PM
OK - I just heard the "sax solo" version of "GOK" on the Sirius Beach Boys channel today...and I gotta say, I personally am convinced that it's two Brians and one Carl singing the lead on this mix. Some words definitely sound like Brian, and others definitely like Carl...as if one of the two was louder than the other on some words, so that's why one's voice seemingly pokes out sometimes while the other's voice does the same thing other times. When it's Brian "poking out", he seems way stronger, and definitely double-tracked, while Carl, when he "pokes out", seems single-tracked. For what it's worth, that's my personal belief.

Also, prior to playing that track, they played a sound byte of Bruce describing how he brought a date to the "GOK" tracking session, and walked into the control booth to see Carl with his 12-string guitar plugged into the board, alongside Brian. That would seem to answer the question of whether Carl is playing on the track. However, as I've said, there is no discernable evidence of him on the session tape, as you might expect there to be -  his voice is not heard and his name is not mentioned. Furthermore, what little between-take guitar doodling is heard on the tape is of a very "jazzy" nature - unlike Carl, and very much like what you'd expect from a studio cat such as Carol Kaye. Two other things that would seem to contradict Bruce's recollection: (1) Terry Melcher (who was definitely present that night) reportedly said that Carl did not play on the track, and (2) in his recollection, Bruce also mentioned that he'd only been in the band two months at that point (when in fact he'd been a Beach Boy for almost a year by then) - so perhaps he was blending his memory of being at the "GOK" tracking session with the memory of seeing Carl and his 12-string at another tracking session...but regardless, I'm willing to concede that Carl MAY be playing 12-string guitar on the "GOK" track, along with Carol Kaye (who I'd say definitely played 12-string on that session, since the tape makes it clear that Ray Pohlman is on Fender bass, and - thanks to aeijtzsche's careful analysis of the Pet Sounds guitar and bass parts - we can say there doesn't seem to be a Dano bass on this one).
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Guitar Sound on \ on: July 16, 2018, 08:19:14 PM
Hmm...I was just reading today about the "baroque violin" - violins from the 17th century were set up differently than modern day violins, to the point where a "baroque violin" is considered an instrument unto itself...I wonder if the same is true of 17th century cellos?
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Guitar Sound on "Little Bird" on: July 16, 2018, 03:23:49 PM
Hey, wondering what guitar players here think might produce the somewhat unique guitar sound on "Little Bird" - could it be the mic'ing, the tuning, or the guitar itself? It sounds almost cello-like in its quality. Kinda like it's being played arco-sytle (with a bow).
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: songs written only by carl and dennis on: July 16, 2018, 07:12:16 AM
It is too bad, however, since they were both primarily composers who worked with lyricists they were not well matched. A more intriguing team would have been Dennis and Mike considering their collaboration on ‘Pacific Ocean Blues’ and ‘Only With You’.

...and "Sound Of Free".
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Channel on Sirius XM on: July 15, 2018, 06:17:17 PM
They broke the seal on the Christmas Album! Santa Claus is Coming to Town was played this afternoon ...

I heard "Frosty" the other day. Christmas in July!
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Be Here In The Mornin' Question on: July 12, 2018, 05:16:15 AM
They all of a distinctive ability to sound like each other if they really try to. All except for Dennis, I guess; he has the most different voice from the rest of them.



Not too fast, IIRC according to Stephen Desper this is all Dennis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHA65ZadrjM

COMMENT:   The A Cappella in the above clip from Hawthorne album was mixed by myself for my own pleasure. Some years later, BBI made copies from my tape and eventually it was released on this album.

The song is almost all Dennis Wilson singing. Some vocal sweeting was added later, but only a couple of voices toward the end.  I've recorded Dennis for years. I remember leaning over the harp of the nine-foot Baldwin Concert Grand Piano as Dennis played this song -- leaning over the harp so I could hear Dennis singing the song, to me, while looking me straight in the eyes. Just he and I in the studio for morning sessions. From thereon the song evolved with the addition of track after track. So don't tell me I can't recognise a vocal! You can collate all the comparative vocal sounds you wish and argue among yourselves. I was there, it is Dennis front to back.

 ~swd


That's why I brought it up. It wasn't meant in a sarcastic way.
Apart from the lead (obviously) I seem to hear Dennis on the Mike-part ("baby") and on the Carl-part ("my my my my my"). The Brian-part is difficult for me to say. It sounds vrey much like Brian but after the song is over and the same voice says "Let's hear that back" (or something along those lines) it could very well also be Dennis. I probably need to listen to it a couple more times.


On another note:
Is it correct that Murry is on "Be here in the morning"? I think that was mentioned in the liner notes of the Friends/20/20 twofer.
COMMENT to Rocker:

Sorry Rocker, nothing personal. I appreciate your comment quoting me. That comment you made in BOLD was just me reacting to other posters who said I wasn't always right in my study-videos. It rubbed me the wrong way. I know it wasn't you, but made the comment as a broader response.




Yeah, I thought so. I just wanted to make sure that nothing I said offended anyone. All is good.

Thanks for the infos!
Regarding Murry's participation, I was sure that it was written he sang on the song in the booklet of said twofer. But I just took a look and there's no mention of Murry. So now I don't remember where I heard about that and therefore I can not say how reliable that source is/was.

That source was Carl Wilson, in his conversation with Geoffrey Himes (the full version, as printed in Kingsley Abbott's "Back to the Beach: A Brian Wilson & The Beach Boys Reader", page 250):  "My dad sang the big deep note on 'Be Here In The Morning'". Elsewhere (I believe it was either the 1974 BBC radio special, or the 1976 "Best Summers of Our Lives" radio special), Carl mentioned that Brian made the Friends album with Murry - on some of the session tapes I've been privileged to hear while researching the MIC sessionography, Murry is heard in the control room directing proceedings like in the "good old days".
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Why did BB sidemen after Blondie + Ricki not attain Official Member Status too? on: July 11, 2018, 05:48:33 PM
What was the deal with Daryl Dragon? He was in a couple of videos and footage around 1972/73 the Carl/passions era

I think he said they told him they would've offered to make him an "official" Beach Boy, but he didn't sing.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Love Surrounds Me Falsetto on: July 11, 2018, 04:55:33 AM
The high, high falsetto voice is Bruce - that's been verified for me by someone who would know. And as far as the Bambu version not including any "Beach Boys" work - well, the only stipulation was that it not include any of the group's vocals (other than Dennis, of course), and that was due to a licensing issue. What's important for people to know is that prior to "LSM" becoming a Beach Boys track, it was ONLY a rough instrumental track - with no vocals. It didn't even have lyrics or a complete melody until Carl and Jimmy Guercio talked Dennis into giving it to the band shortly after the band's stay at Criteria in Miami in late August/early September of '78, at which point Carl's friend and songwriting partner Geoffrey Cushing-Murray was given a cassette dub of the track and asked to write lyrics. Dennis didn't even meet Christine until November of '78, and her vocals (and Dennis' lead, for that matter) weren't recorded until early January of '79 - by which point the Beach Boys' backing vocals (Carl-Dennis-Bruce) had already been added. If someone wants to hear what the "solo Dennis" version of "LSM" sounded like before it was "given" to the Beach Boys - then listen to the rough instrumental mix that's floating around on bootlegs.   
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Why did BB sidemen after Blondie + Ricki not attain Official Member Status too? on: July 10, 2018, 04:32:09 AM
IIRC, Billy was offered membership, but declined.

He'd said that in 1969, the group approached him with the possibility of replacing Bruce.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Why did BB sidemen after Blondie + Ricki not attain Official Member Status too? on: July 10, 2018, 04:31:15 AM
Curious, what year did Al officially become a member of BRI ?

I've heard 1971 and 1973 (the latter from the Leaf book, IIRC).
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Why did BB sidemen after Blondie + Ricki not attain Official Member Status too? on: July 09, 2018, 07:07:04 PM
Blondie and Ricky were made "official" Beach Boys as a very conscious decision to make the band "hipper", both in sound, but especially in image. There's never been any reason for them to make anyone else an "offical" Beach Boy since Bruce joined, even guys like Billy and Jeff, who were pretty much "front line" during their tenures.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Be Here In The Mornin' Question on: July 07, 2018, 07:02:06 AM
On "Be Here In The Mornin'" - Dennis DOES sing the wordless "uh-uhhh-uh-uh"s at the start and later in the song. And yes, that's definitely Brian on the falsetto chorus responses. But I would credit the "lead" simply to Al and Carl, and consider the other two parts as backgrounds. Same with Murry's low "whole"s in the choruses.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Be Here In The Mornin' Question on: July 06, 2018, 07:55:22 PM
It's Al on the verses. Compare his vocal there to that on "Loop-De-Loop". And it's Carl on the choruses.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carl or Brian on God Only Knows? on: July 04, 2018, 03:30:16 PM
I'm sure this won't convince anyone one way or the other, but, for what it's worth, here's a look at the various dates we have for recording and mixes:

Basic track (at Western) - although the between-take chatter from the IKTAA vocal session has Brian announcing that he will be cutting "God Only Knows" the following Sunday, it appears he changed his mind and instead cut the track for "I'm Waiting For The Day" on that day (March 6, 1966), and "GOK" the following Thursday (March 10), from 12:30am-4:15am.

First vocal session (at Columbia) - from notation on the track sheet, the initial vocals were done ALSO done on March 10 - whether immediately after the tracking session at Western, or later in the day, we don't know - but Columbia was just across the street from the United/Western complex, so the former is certainly possible.

Mix # 1 - this appears as the "Sax Solo" version on the Capitol Pet Sounds Session box set - this has what MAY be the Brian doubled lead (with Carl mixed in), a sax solo instead of vocals in bridge, what seems to me to be a mix of Carl and Brian on the first line of the tag, and the ensemble vocals in the tag - this mono mix bears the date 3/12.

Mix # 2 - this has the Brian-Carl dual lead (IF that's what it is), no vocals or sax on the bridge, and the familiar Brian-Bruce tag. This mono mix appears on the Goodbye Surfing, Hello God bootleg box set, and is dated 3/22.

Mix # 3 - this appears as the "Brian sings lead" version on the Capitol box set - this has the same Brian doubled lead (with Carl) - IF that's what it is - but maybe with a bit more reverb - the bridge vocals are in place, but here Brian seems to be doubling Bruce's part - this mono mix is also dated 3/22.

And, then there's the "with a capella tag" version on the Capitol box set - this appears to be "Mix # 3" above, except that it fades out when the ensemble vocals - in stereo - fade in, unaccompanied by instruments. Obviously a modern composite mix, rather than a vintage mono rough mix.

Second vocal session (at Columbia) - another track sheet bears the date of April 11 - and it would appear the final lead vocal and bridge vocals were recorded at this session. This was a Tuesday, though - and Carl recalled doing the lead vocal on a Sunday...but who knows.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Channel on Sirius XM on: July 04, 2018, 12:29:03 PM
Must have been a big day for the Salute to Nascar album,  I heard Little GTO.

Also, several clips from Marilyn have been airing the past couple of days.

I heard my first Dennis interview clip the other day. Still waiting to hear from Carl.

I'd love to see (and hear) David Marks play his favorite Beach Boys songs post-1963. His thoughts on the mid and late 60's, the 1970's and 1980's. The solo albums.
C'mon SiriusXM! Make it happen!

What did Dennis talk about in that clip?

It was "creating music and making people happy" thing. They then went into a Dennis song. I was busy at the time...can't remember the song. I recorded it, though. Nice!

For those of you with a DVD recorder you can plug your device into the machine and record the audio onto a blank DVD-R disc. I'm getting 9 hours of audio on 1 disc. Playback sounds great. I'll throw a disc in at night and let it record when I sleep. Record during the day when I can. If the channel doesn't return next year it will be nice to re-listen to the discs and channel.

I guess I don't have to tell anyone that there are ways to record the audio into your computer. The interviews seal the deal for me. I hope they keep adding more.

David Marks was just on talking about he and Dennis singing in the recording studio.

Thanks - wondering what exactly Dave said about singing with Dennis in the studio - anything specific in terms of a particular song, or vocal part on a song?
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Channel on Sirius XM on: July 04, 2018, 10:03:13 AM
Must have been a big day for the Salute to Nascar album,  I heard Little GTO.

Also, several clips from Marilyn have been airing the past couple of days.

I heard my first Dennis interview clip the other day. Still waiting to hear from Carl.

I'd love to see (and hear) David Marks play his favorite Beach Boys songs post-1963. His thoughts on the mid and late 60's, the 1970's and 1980's. The solo albums.
C'mon SiriusXM! Make it happen!

What did Dennis talk about in that clip?
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: July 03, 2018, 09:32:21 PM
Their names and respective instruments appear in a '67 article reprinted in Look! Listen! Vibrate! SMiLE!
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Speakers for listening to the Beach Boys etc. on: July 03, 2018, 05:04:18 AM
Everything sounds better on my Polk Audios (which I purchased in 1996) - including The Beach Boys ('course they sound better than most others)!  Smiley
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beach Boys Touring Lineups on: July 03, 2018, 05:02:51 AM
Not sure if Wikipedia mentions it, but Taylor Mills also sang with the band (at a show in New York state, I believe). "Marcella", I think - as well as the encore.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beach Boys Touring Lineups on: July 02, 2018, 06:29:34 PM
Reviving a dormant thread with some questions about C50. I didn't see any of the shows so I wouldn't know, but (these are from Wikipedia)

1. What songs did Mike D'Amico play drums on?
2. What songs did Probyn Gregory play bass on?
3. When did Tim Bonhomme occasionally play keyboards?
4. When did Billy Hinsche and Bobby Figueroa appear as special guests?

1. Pretty much the ones that Brian's band had been doing, but Mike's had not (Marcella, This Whole World, Pet Sounds, etc.)
2. The ones that Mike D'Amico played drums on. Smiley Except for Pet Sounds - Scotty T. played bass on that one, 'cause Probyn was needed on the trumpet.
3. Didn't know that he did, but he was there as one of the tour managers. Not surprised if he did play some keyboards at some point, though.
4. Not sure - Billy was at the California show(s) where the band's kids opened for them (where they called California Saga? can't remember)...

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