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639778 Posts in 25568 Topics by 3634 Members - Latest Member: godette502 November 21, 2018, 10:31:31 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: November 19, 2018, 02:51:07 PM
Geez, that was a LONG British Invasion! 

Yeah - even the Bay City Rollers "invasion" was over by late '76!
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Barney Kessel WIBN Mandolin Found AND Sold Nov 10th...But the mystery deepens... on: November 12, 2018, 08:06:08 AM
On this hybrid mandolin instrument or a mandolin in general, you wouldn't need the extended range to play the WIBN intro.  Smiley

As soon as I figured out how to play it on a mandolin tuned in standard mandolin tuning, and heard how it sounded, it started to make sense. It's all in the lower positions.

Yeah, but Barney's mando was tuned to standard guitar tuning for WIBN (according to the determinations of Maggie and aeijtzsche on a previous thread here):

Maggie posted this: "the WIBN intro is clearly a course-stringed instrument (you can hear the notes beating slightly with themselves) so Kessel's 12-string mandolin-body guitar (tuned EADGBE rather than in reverse as a normal mandolin would be, and pitched an octave higher than a normal guitar) is an obvious candidate."

To which aeijtzsche replied: "Barney's would've had to have been, weirdly enough, pitched identically to a 12-string guitar.  Why someone would do that, who knows.  But when he noodles between takes you can hear him tuning, which gives it away."  Meaning, the high string courses (high pitch-wise) are doubles, the low string courses (low pitch-wise) are octaves, and again, it's EADGBE instead of the opposite.

FWIW, it's been years, but at one point I sat down and learned how to play the WIBN intro from a guitar tablature book of Beach Boys songs. I used a 6-string electric, but I recall that the positioning was fairly high on the neck (can't say which frets from memory, and don't have the book handy - been looking for it for days now!).
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Barney Kessel WIBN Mandolin Found AND Sold Nov 10th...But the mystery deepens... on: November 11, 2018, 05:55:59 PM
Notice also how Barney's mando has a slightly longer neck than Tommy's...all the better for which to play the "WIBN" intro...
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Barney Kessel WIBN Mandolin Found AND Sold Nov 10th...But the mystery deepens... on: November 11, 2018, 12:43:08 PM
In the photo of the "Barney" mando, there appears to be a screw inserted in the middle of the Gibson logo...wonder why? Had it become necessary at some point in order to keep the faceplate on that headstock?
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Barney's Mando-Guitar on: November 11, 2018, 06:33:13 AM
Hey everyone - regarding Barney Kessel's now-famous Gibson mando-guitar - which we've now pretty much definitively concluded was used for the opening notes of "Wouldn't It Be Nice"...

There's the photo from the Pet Sounds sessions box set where Barney is seen cradling the instrument at some session (not necessarily a BW/Beach Boys session, and most likely not)...but I could swear someone posted an alternate shot of the thing where we can see either a pickup or a jack plug at the bottom of the body...I tried the search engine here, with no luck. Am I imagining that, or is there such a photo?
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: (suspended) on: November 07, 2018, 02:03:02 PM
The official Warner Bros. promo booklet issued at the time of Holland's release in January 1973, and available for free at places like Tower Records, says this about SOS:

"Sail On, Sailor" is a Brian Wilson-Jack Rieley song with writer credits suggesting informal assistance from a wide range of characters, among them Van Dyke Parks. It takes the composers sense of rueful sorcery to a politically radical plateau, accompanied lyrically by one of the more blunt statements of the quality of being ever uttered by the Beach Boys. Blondie Chaplin sings lead, and Carl Wilson produced.

So, there IS an official record company credit for Blondie's lead, and a contemporaneous one, no less. Plus, Blondie has talked about the recording session in many interviews since then, including how he sang the lead in two takes after both Dennis and Carl tried and gave up.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's voice on \ on: November 01, 2018, 06:16:35 AM
I'd never realised before but Carl really sounds like Brian in that part!

You know what? A little doubt subsist far in my head... 😉

Yes, but this isolated vocals version clearly shows that the vocalist on that part is the same guy who sings the previous lines, and that's clearly Carl.  Smiley
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Love & Stamos on Jimmy Kimmel 10/31 on: October 30, 2018, 12:38:55 PM
Brian needs to go on Fallon and do "My Solution"!
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Alternate Surf's Up LP on: October 26, 2018, 12:46:34 PM
I'm of the opinion that nothing needed to be dropped from Surf's Up to make it a better album...the LP as it stands is just under 35 minutes, while Abbey Road clocks in at over 47 minutes, so I don't think space should be an issue. This album would have been ten times better had they finished and added "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again", and "Fourth Of July" (with group background vocals). Placement doesn't matter so much to me, but probably "Fourth" either right before or right after "STD", and "WIBNTLA" either right before or right after "SU" (yes, I know that ruins the effect of three back-to-back BW tunes at the very end, but so what - I'd vote to put it after "SU" as a kind of coda). And, if they could squeeze it in, put "Lady (Fallin' In Love)" early on side two, either before or immediately after "Lookin' At Tomorrow".

This lineup (either with our without "Lady") would have made Surf's Up a stone-cold early '70s classic in pretty much anyone's opinion.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's voice on \ on: October 26, 2018, 11:53:59 AM
Doubtful, but perhaps one of the wizards around here can create an isolated vocal track for it.

Already been done:

For the record, I can hear why mustomax might get the idea that it's Brian on that part, since it does kinda sound like his intonation/timbre, but this isolated vocals version clearly shows that the vocalist on that part is the same guy who sings the previous lines, and that's clearly Carl.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: October 23, 2018, 05:54:11 PM
After looking at the Imagination credits I am quite intrigued. I saw that Bruce is on the album singing backgrounds, does anyone have a song or part of a song where he is clearly audible? I think Bruce being on this album is really interesting, given what was going on with The Beach Boys in the late 90's. Brian is also credited as playing drums, does anyone know what song(s) he plays drums on?

Also, on an unrelated note--- do you think Al will ever tour with his Endless Summer band again? I know he's quite busy doing shows with Brian and doing his Postcard storytelling shows, but I wonder if he will ever reunite the band he had been playing with consistently for many years, as I understand it, until around 2014. At least as far as I can remember, he hasn't played with that band in a few years. It's a solid group of musicians that I'd love to see come together again.

Ah, Wikipedia - wrong again. Bruce does not sing on the album (according to the actual album credits), but he did join Brian for a couple of live performances of songs from the album upon it's release, including the full length video produced for TV and later released on VHS/DVD. Nor is Brian credited with playing drums on the album - although if memory serves, in that same video there is a clip of him in the studio sitting at the drums playing the intro to "Be My Baby" as means of demonstration. So, perhaps whoever posted those credits on Wikipedia was going by the video, not the actual album credits!
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: October 23, 2018, 05:47:30 PM
Is that the boys playing on Graduation Day, or did they get session musicians in?
Why wouldn't it be? It's Carl on Acoustic Guitar and that's it. Here is more information, Thanks to Mr. Slowinski.   Scroll down to page 70.

Well, it's actually Electric Guitar that Carl plays on that track.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: RIP Geoff Emerick on: October 23, 2018, 09:55:25 AM
Which recording magazine has that Geoff Anthology interview?
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: October 22, 2018, 08:05:04 PM
Do any recordings exist of The Beach Boys doing "Sister Golden Hair"? It seems on they played it when Gerry Beckley replaced Mike in 1990...

I guess while I'm here, why was Beckley filling in for Mike?

Yes, there was a concert recording from Molson Park in Ontario on 6/2/90 circulating awhile back. "Sister Golden Hair" included.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: RIP Geoff Emerick on: October 22, 2018, 12:50:12 PM
Yes, I agree that Macca's bass sound was "Americanized" at that point, but in te paragraph I quoted, it sure seems like Emerick's talking about wanting to get the sound of the entire track "clean" like American records. He goes on to describe how they achieved that on "Penny Lane" in particular: recording each instrument individually, starting with the piano by itself, then doubled, tripled, quadrupled, before starting to add the other instruments individually. Definitely NOT how Brian was recording at the time. So, I think Mr. Emerick either melded some memories together, or wasn't clear enough in relating how Paul's love of Pet Sounds AND other American records of the era (many of which DID sound very clean in comparison to their English contemporaries) all influenced the creation of "Penny Lane" and Sgt. Pepper. In other words, the influence of "Wouldn't It Be Nice" shows up on "Penny Lane" in the bass sound, the shuffle rhythm, and the chordal construction (and maybe the use of orchestral instruments), while the influence of other Pet Sounds cuts shows up elsewhere, on Pepper (the bass harmonica on "Mr. Kite", the vocal backgrounds on "Lovely Rita", and - as once pointed out by Roy Carr and Tony Tyler in their book "The Beatles: An Illustrated Record" - the use of animal sounds at the end of "Good Morning, Good Morning"). Meanwhile, the in-your-face "clean" sound of other American records, like those released by Stax/Volt, shows up in the way they recorded instruments separately with absolutely no bleed-through.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Alternate Surf's Up LP on: October 21, 2018, 03:36:22 PM
Hmm, I've never heard of there being a decision to be made between including "SDT" or "WIBNTLA" (one versus the other). But to answer the timeline question, it appears that "SDT" was one of the earliest of the songs included on the Surf's Up LP to be recorded, whereas "WIBNTLA" was recorded in the middle of the sessions. My sources indicate the following timeline for production and Dennis' hand injury:

TAKE A LOAD OFF YOUR FEET - Sunflower outtake, recorded January 17, 1970 - strings added January 26, 1970
LOOKIN' AT TOMORROW - recorded August 14, 1970
'TIL I DIE - recorded August 15, 1970, with possible new lead vocal added later
STUDENT DEMONSTRATION TIME - recorded October 28, 1970, final mix is dated November 3, 1970
FOURTH OF JULY - track recorded beginning April 3, 1971
DON'T GO NEAR THE WATER - recorded beginning April 3, 1971
LONG PROMISED ROAD - recorded April 3-April 4, 1971
A DAY IN THE LIFE OF A TREE - recorded beginning circa mid-April 1971, finished mid-June 1971
WOULDN'T IT BE NICE TO LIVE AGAIN - recorded beginning May 23, 1971
FEEL FLOWS - recorded circa June 1971
DISNEY GIRLS - recorded beginning June 3, 1971
* Dennis hand injury occurred June 11, 1971 *
SURF'S UP (new track recorded at Sunset Sound, but not used) - June 18, 1971
FOURTH OF JULY - Carl's existing vocal recorded June 20, 1971 (in the absence of Dennis)
SURF'S UP - 1966 recording transferred to 16-track, and additions recorded in late June/early July 1971

17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Lords Prayer on: October 21, 2018, 08:50:08 AM
Bruce has often referred to his as his favorite Beach Boys recording, even though it predates his tenure in the band. In fact, it may have been him who pushed to have it included on the unreleased final Capitol album in '70, as well as putting it in contender-ship for KTSA a decade later. I've heard interviews with Bruce where he mentions it as a perfect blend of Brian-Carl-Al-Mike, but harmony-meister Adam Marsland, in a previous thread on this board, proposed a different theory regarding the lineup:

<<At first listen, I would have said five parts, they're all there, for sure Brian, Carl, Mike and Al, with Al appearing to dominate the harmony stack at "give us this day our daily bread," and Dennis' participation being the X factor. Then I listened more closely and I could not find more than four parts at any point in the song. It definitely ends on only four parts. Also, every time the band got into close harmony, it was when Mike left the bass range. Thus it pretty much has to be just four parts. The four voices are thus:

Brian's falsetto
A higher "rounder" tonality that's the lowest in the mix (vocal "A")
A lower, grainier tonality that's further up in the mix (vocal "B")
Mike's bass line

It's easiest to tease these apart on the very last line, and that's where the troubles began. Vocal A was definitely a Wilson and if I had to guess I would have said Dennis. No way it's Al...the tone is too "round". Vocal B could be either Carl or Alan, but not Dennis. Likewise, too grainy/nasal.

From a default standpoint, I would have then said (in this order) Mike, Al, Carl, Brian. Vocal A is high, it's tricky, and unusually for Dennis, he never sticks out in the mix, so it's obvious to ascribe it to Carl. Also, Al clearly dominates the stack at the "daily bread" line. Yet, Vocal B sounded a little soft and round for Carl, and there were parts I felt I heard Carl clearly at Vocal A. Plus, Carl's default position was below Al in the stack, although that doesn't seem to have always been the case.

So I went back to the "daily bread" line and listened more carefully. Even though the phrasing of that sounds exactly like Al's, if you listen around that line where the doubling comes apart slightly (it's most pronounced at "evil") and you can hear the individual vocals on that part, suddenly you hear Carl. Then listen to "power" and "glory". Vocal B is the one that's moving more, Vocal A is the one that has lest movement. "Power" is much more Carl-like but more importantly, "glory" is unmistakably Dennis (listen to the way he hits the "ry"...he scoops up to the note). Also listen to Vocal B at the closing "amen" where it comes apart slightly. You can hear the individual voices and it's clearly Carl. So Al's presence on the song, seemingly obvious, would appear to be an aural illusion created by Carl's voice being doubletracked in that range, which would make him sound grainier in spots and more Al-like.

The Lord's Prayer:
Mike - bottom
Carl - next (except in a couple of spots where I think he crosses into the upper register)
Dennis - next
Brian - top>>
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: RIP Geoff Emerick on: October 21, 2018, 08:39:26 AM
If you donít have it-his book is very entertaining

I see on his Wikipedia page that many of his recollections in that book were later challenged by other participants, including Ken Scott in his own autobiography. They sound like two fun reads - I'll have to seek them out!

His book is a must read...But in all fairness, anyone in the entertainment business including the tech people like Geoff and Ken could have that listed on a "Wikipedia" page about having info challenged by other participants. Par for the course.

Indeed, Emerick's contributions were very important, and his book is definitely a good read if you're a Beatles fan. My only reservation with it is the degree to which he seems consider himself the '5th Beatle', but I don't want to bad mouth the guys as he was clearly great.

My copy of his book arrived yesterday. Two mentions of The Beach Boys - and I find the first rather odd: "One of Paul McCartney's favorite albums of 1966 was the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds, and he often played it on his portable gramophone during breaks, so it wasn't altogether unsurprising (sic) when he announced that he wanted a "really clean American sound" on the next song of his to be recorded: 'Penny Lane'. I'd spent a lot of time mastering American records, and I was convinced that the best way to give Paul what he wanted was to record each instrument totally on its own so there would be no leakage (or 'bleed', as it was known) whatsoever." 

Odd, because that "separated" style of recording - layering each instrument one at a time, removing the "bleed" - is the exact opposite of how Pet Sounds was actually recorded, or sounds!
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New BW Interview with The Maine Edge on: October 21, 2018, 02:30:57 AM
Thanks for sharing that! It's pretty noticeable that Brian is far more cooperative when the interviewer is a fan as well as a professional who can ask him questions that don't bore him. Of course, I'm sure there were good interviewers who just got him at the wrong time, but this is the perfect setup.

Definitely. Iíve noticed Jason Fine has given good interviews with him, and the late Paul Williams had a good one in 1995.

The late Timothy White was another.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread on: October 20, 2018, 09:28:27 PM
Wonder who he'll replace...
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: General Copyright Extension Question on: October 18, 2018, 08:29:02 PM
Very helpful - thanks, guys.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis' Voice 1980-1981 on: October 18, 2018, 09:08:21 AM
The throat punch by rocky was supposedly super bowl sunday, 1981 (so last week of jan)

That was not the infamous punch to the throat incident - the very detailed and disturbing description of the Super Bowl beating in the Gaines book makes no mention of a throat punch. The alleged throat punch from Stephen Love that reportedly damaged Dennis' vocal cords occurred in 1974.

EDIT: for the record, the '74 throat punch has been variously described as a stray punch from Steve Love, a deliberate punch from Steve Love, and as follows by Steve Love himself on this board in 2014:  "Not only was I NOT the guy who karate chopped Dennis in the throat in 1974 at the Red Onion restaurant in Redondo Beach, CA, Iím the guy who knocked out the bouncer who struck a barefoot Dennis who attempted to push past the doorman to get to the dance floor."
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds-ish Songs by Brian & Other BBs on: October 18, 2018, 12:25:06 AM
"You're Still A Mystery" has a definite Pet Sounds vibe - the Leslie'd lead guitar, the chord changes, etc.

And from Denny - "Tug Of Love (Feel The Pull)" - bass harmonica, tympani, eerie sounds.

And from Any Paley (with Brian on backing vocals) - "In My Moondreams" - 6-string bass guitar and all. And, it's in Mono!
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Easter Seals Show 1979 on: October 16, 2018, 11:21:19 PM
Hearing Brian ad libbing through Good Vibrations was interesting.

Edit: Does anybody know who the long haired guy playing keyboard is?

The guy in the back next to Carli? I believe that's Phil Shenale. And Sterling Smith is on grand piano. Note that with Bruce on the Wurlitzer for "Good Timin'", there was no room onstage for Brian (too many keyboard players)!.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Easter Seals Show 1979 on: October 15, 2018, 05:13:29 PM
Dennis missed some shows here and there in early '79, but his nearly year-long "boot" didn't occur until June, after the Universal Ampitheater shows (and during his "sabbatical", he still played a show in Hawaii that August and a handful of western state shows in November). And, correction to my comment above - they played four shows at Radio City Music Hall that March, not three.  Smiley
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