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643625 Posts in 25717 Topics by 3658 Members - Latest Member: chimp February 15, 2019, 05:39:47 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Bruce Johnston's 1968 Solo Project - Polydor - \ on: February 10, 2019, 10:02:20 PM
For "Think About the Days' on "that's why god made the radio"-- is Bruce doing the falsetto on that one? I swear I read that.


Yes, he is singing a high falsetto part. IIRC, there is another sung by Foskett. He also sings a noticeable falsetto line on "Bill and Sue".
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Bruce Johnston's 1968 Solo Project - Polydor - \ on: February 10, 2019, 08:20:50 AM
I believe Billy was being groomed to replace Bruce at that time. Right around the time that Bruce gave up his share in the beachboy corporation as well as an owner. As far as his contributions then and now let's be real Bruce has contributed very little next to nothing on stage other than hand clapping for years and years and years now. Take him off the stage and  the show wouldn't miss a beat without him

And yet, a year or two back, when Bruce missed a show or two, people here commented on how the live vocal stack was much weaker without him. I think they were comparing YouTube videos from those shows to recent shows with Bruce (I didn't myself). I'm sure someone can find that thread, if they are so inclined.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Bruce Johnston's 1968 Solo Project - Polydor - \ on: February 08, 2019, 01:03:17 PM
Wasn't Bluebirds originally going to be a Bruce solo track?  Maybe that is what she heard.

Exactly. He also cut something called "Fanfare" for Columbia in late July of '67 (I have a copy of the AFM contract). Was that ever released?
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Beach Boy European Tour Documentary on: February 02, 2019, 10:34:50 PM
Billy's video is from parts of the various '74 tours.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: All I Wanna Do - What were The BBs trying to achieve with it? on: January 31, 2019, 04:24:42 PM
Not sure why you'd want "a brand new remix of the full song" - the released version is absolutely perfect, and any remix attempt would likely not live up to that.
I can see the value in releasing the other configurations you're hoping for.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Can anyone help id this performance? on: January 28, 2019, 06:57:01 PM
If anyone decides to post more of the footage, please let the board know!

It would be so nice if the powers that be decided to release a compilation DVD of all the major tv performances over the years.  I know a lot of people have this stuff in bits and pieces but it would be great to have a good bit of it on one release. 

Including the foreign stuff, like "Gran Gala Du Disque" from Holland, and the full New Zealand and Australia shows from '78 (assuming they still exist).
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: David Marks to play in Denmark (!) on: January 28, 2019, 08:39:58 AM
Adam Marsland - keyboard spiller.  Cool!  Smiley
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Can anyone help id this performance? on: January 27, 2019, 12:23:39 PM
Thanks.  Do you know the name of the show or anything else I could use to look it up?  Id love to see more of the footage from this.  

"Goin' Platinum". It was on either HBO or Showtime in 1980. Last I looked a few years back, the whole thing wasn't on YouTube, but maybe it is now.

It was distributed by Showtime. I just watched it on the DVD I had made from a Betamax tape I recorded when it was first shown in 1980 (On TV Ch 15 in Phoenix, AZ).
It was the first in a series of shows called "Going Platinum" (not Goin') hosted by a Rolling Stones magazine editor.

Yes, Ben Fong-Torres as stated above.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Can anyone help id this performance? on: January 26, 2019, 05:51:42 PM
I believe Ben Fong Torres was the narrator/host for this

Yep.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Steel Guitar on Little Pad on: January 26, 2019, 10:32:10 AM
So, if it is indeed Al Vescovo playing the steel guitar on "Little Pad", that was likely his first session with Brian. Meaning, he was probably located and booked through a call to the Union (by Diane, who was acting as Brian's union contractor at the time). That, in turn, would mean (beyond the shadow of a doubt in my mind) that the proper paperwork was indeed filed to cover both Vescovo's participation and that of whoever played the ukulele (assuming that the uke was not played by one of the Boys). Finally, we can conclude that said paperwork must be missing, since everything else from those sessions seems to be accounted for.

And that does seem somewhat plausible - although sessions for each of the Smiley songs seem to be well documented by corresponding AFM contracts and/or Capitol Popular Session Workseets, there nonetheless IS an incongruous gap where the paperwork for a June 27 session might be missing. Essentially, starting June 3, it appears that the group would work for a stretch of between 3-5 days, then take 3 days off. The exceptions to this rule would seem to be June 4 (when it appears that no session was held - either that, or that day's paperwork - likely for a "Vegetables/With Me Tonight" session - is also missing), and the period right before and right after the Fourth Of July holiday, when they worked 6 days straight (IF, in fact, there was a session on June 27), then took 4 days off (including the holiday) before returning to work just 2 days, then resuming the normal schedule by taking 3 days off, followed by a stretch of working 5 days straight to finish the album.

Examining the "modular" fashion in which some of the Smiley songs seem to have been pieced together, and then comparing them to the AFM contracts, can be revealing. We already know that some sessions logged as "Vegetables" were actually for "With Me Tonight" (the latter song considered at some point to be part of the former), and it now appears to me that what was logged initially as "The Hawaiian Song" produced not only pieces of what became "Little Pad", but also a piece of what became "She's Goin' Bald" (namely, the section where the following lyrics are sung: "You're too late mama, ain't nothin' upside you're head"). My reasoning here is that one outside musician - upright bassist Chuck Berghofer - was employed for the June 21 session, logged as "Hawaiian Song - Insert", and the 2017 release of the "Little Pad" backing track on Sunshine Tomorrow reveals that the deep bass on that part of the song is, in fact, an upright. My theory, therefore, is that this piece, originally intended as part of whatever "Hawaiian Song" was going to be, was ultimately siphoned off for "She's Goin' Bald", and the other piece intended for "Hawaiian Song" (and this was likely just a working title for a concept Brian had) - tracked on June 19 with vocals added on the 20th - was incorporated into "Little Pad", along with new pieces recorded under the title "Little Pad In Hawaii" on the 27th (if my theory about missing paperwork is true) and the 28th.

Now - in this theory of mine, the June 27 session was obviously for the "steel guitar/marimba" part of the song (let's call it "Part Two"), while the June 28 session was for the song's opening part (where they sing "If I only had a little pad in Hawaii" in a jokey, laughing, perhaps stoned fashion - let's call it "Part One"), while "Part Three" is the strummed ukulele track behind Carl's wordless vocal (linked to "Part Two" by a fingernsap interlude), and "Part Four" is the organ/"tick-tock" percussion part. The final running order, then, is "Part One" (June 28) - "Part Two" (June 27, if there is missing documentation) - "Part Three" (June 19-20) - "Part Four" (June 28), followed by repeats of Parts Two, Three, Four, and Two, in that order. The only slight hiccup in this theory is that the strummed ukulele track ("Part Three") is from the first "Hawaiian Song" session on June 19th, and the only names on that AFM contract are Al, Brian, Carl, Dennis, and Diane - meaning, there is no evidence that a sessionman like Lyle Ritz or Tommy Tedesco was brought in to play the uke, as has been suggested or stated. Doesn't mean it didn't happen at some point, but obviously not on that date! And, if so, that's more missing paperwork!
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Steel Guitar on Little Pad on: January 26, 2019, 08:34:29 AM
Are there other Capitol era sessions where there are instruments on a recording that can not be attributed to anyone on the session paperwork?

During the Brother Studios era, I know of two non-union people, who spent hours (one spent the major portion of a day) doing overdubs on a Dennis song, who were not paid at all.

Not that I can think of, other than in the case of "Surfin' U.S.A.". Frank DeVito was paid in cash by Murry, and he was not listed on the AFM contract. That contract is stamped as received and paid months after the session, so it was likely backdated at that time. But by the time of the Smiley Smile sessions, they had an official session contractor in Diane, so I highly doubt this was any kind of oversight. There are a few cases where we have a contract for a basic tracking session, but not the string or horn overdub - that kind of thing. So it's possible that there is a missing contract in this case, but not that likely, since we seem to have a complete set otherwise.

By the Brother Studios era, and Dennis' songs in particular, things were a bit different...
You know, I listened back to that portion of the track. I suspect that the steel guitar and marimba were overdubs. When that section starts it just those two instruments, then. at about the 'and of 1' of the second bar, you can hear another track being faded in.  It's a bass playing a syncopated version of the melody in the high register and an organ(?). The steel and marimba parts mask the other, more syncopated variation of the melody - not that that means anything. But, it is curious.

Were there any other sessions around that time that featured a marimba and a steel guitar (or a musician who could double on one)? If it was an overdub session, could the contract info have been submitted under a different title?

No, nothing else from the Smiley sessions fits that description, and the only outside musician paid through the Union for services during that era was Chuck Berghofer. It's possible that the segment in question is a leftover from the SMiLE days, but Vescovo is not listed on any of those contracts either. I've been wondering if that two-note marimba sound was a rhythm setting on Brian's Baldwin?
Yes, I wondered about that part, as well. I was trying to determine if it was a tuned percussion instrument, it doesn't sound like one. It could be an organ sound. hmmmm

Actually, I was thinking of the repeating "tick-tock" two-note percussive bit behind the "Sure would like to have a little pad in Hawaii" part...THAT'S what I think could be a Baldwin tempo setting. I guess the part you're referring to is the marimba-like sound behind the steel guitar? That, to me, sounds like a piano doctored with making tape to make it sound like a marimba...
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Guitar Effects on "Goin' On" on: January 25, 2019, 09:27:01 PM
What kind of effects are used for the guitars on this "Goin' On" backing track?  I'm thinking phase (I used to own a Small Stone phase shifter - those were quite popular in the late '70s - "Shattered" by the Stones, for instance).
Maybe also a little bit of Leslie on one of the guitars?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezvbBTXJHts
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Steel Guitar on Little Pad on: January 25, 2019, 02:12:49 PM
Are there other Capitol era sessions where there are instruments on a recording that can not be attributed to anyone on the session paperwork?

During the Brother Studios era, I know of two non-union people, who spent hours (one spent the major portion of a day) doing overdubs on a Dennis song, who were not paid at all.

Not that I can think of, other than in the case of "Surfin' U.S.A.". Frank DeVito was paid in cash by Murry, and he was not listed on the AFM contract. That contract is stamped as received and paid months after the session, so it was likely backdated at that time. But by the time of the Smiley Smile sessions, they had an official session contractor in Diane, so I highly doubt this was any kind of oversight. There are a few cases where we have a contract for a basic tracking session, but not the string or horn overdub - that kind of thing. So it's possible that there is a missing contract in this case, but not that likely, since we seem to have a complete set otherwise.

By the Brother Studios era, and Dennis' songs in particular, things were a bit different...
You know, I listened back to that portion of the track. I suspect that the steel guitar and marimba were overdubs. When that section starts it just those two instruments, then. at about the 'and of 1' of the second bar, you can hear another track being faded in.  It's a bass playing a syncopated version of the melody in the high register and an organ(?). The steel and marimba parts mask the other, more syncopated variation of the melody - not that that means anything. But, it is curious.

Were there any other sessions around that time that featured a marimba and a steel guitar (or a musician who could double on one)? If it was an overdub session, could the contract info have been submitted under a different title?

No, nothing else from the Smiley sessions fits that description, and the only outside musician paid through the Union for services during that era was Chuck Berghofer. It's possible that the segment in question is a leftover from the SMiLE days, but Vescovo is not listed on any of those contracts either. I've been wondering if that two-note marimba sound was a rhythm setting on Brian's Baldwin?
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Steel Guitar on Little Pad on: January 25, 2019, 01:27:06 PM
Are there other Capitol era sessions where there are instruments on a recording that can not be attributed to anyone on the session paperwork?

During the Brother Studios era, I know of two non-union people, who spent hours (one spent the major portion of a day) doing overdubs on a Dennis song, who were not paid at all.

Not that I can think of, other than in the case of "Surfin' U.S.A.". Frank DeVito was paid in cash by Murry, and he was not listed on the AFM contract. That contract is stamped as received and paid months after the session, so it was likely backdated at that time. But by the time of the Smiley Smile sessions, they had an official session contractor in Diane, so I highly doubt this was any kind of oversight. There are a few cases where we have a contract for a basic tracking session, but not the string or horn overdub - that kind of thing. So it's possible that there is a missing contract in this case, but not that likely, since we seem to have a complete set otherwise.

By the Brother Studios era, and Dennis' songs in particular, things were a bit different...
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Steel Guitar on Little Pad on: January 25, 2019, 12:27:01 PM
I only threw the possibility of being paid under the table out there as a possibility, and it could have been just that. The band by summer 1967 was still making a lot of money from Good Vibrations and the other successes they were having in 1966 including the tours. there was definitely no shortage of funds  if they did want to pay people to play on their records

Yeah, but again, I don't know why they would, if they could get Capitol to do it. If they wanted it to be tax free, they could "gross it up" by adding overtime or doubles to reach whatever net payout the guy wanted, and still ensure a pension contribution.
Could have it simply been on a spontaneous whim by the hardly patient Brian and he paid him out of pocket because he really didn't care too much about bureaucracy and so on?

That doesn't really match up with what we know about all the other sessions Brian produced. For instance, Billy Strange was called in at the last minute to do a 12-string guitar overdub on "Sloop John B." on a day the music stores were closed, requiring a phone call to the owner to come down and open the store so that a 12-string and amp could be purchased; Billy relates that Brian handed him a wad of cash for the session, and let him keep the guitar & amp - yet, an AFM contract for that session was STILL filled out and submitted, so that Strange could also get his Capitol pay and pension contribution. Likewise for the Tommy Tedesco mandolin overdub on the "Cantina" version of "H&V":  Tedesco was called in toward the end of a five and a half hour vocal session, at 10:00pm, and his services were only required for 45 minutes - yet he was paid by-the-book, by the label through the Union (perhaps he was also given cash, like Strange was, but he was definitely paid $130 by Capitol from the Boys' recording budget).  I can't imagine the same wouldn't have been done for Al Vescovo and whoever played the uke on "Little Pad", if they were indeed session pros, especially since an AFM contract for that session was being filed anyway. Why not just add their names?
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Can anyone help id this performance? on: January 25, 2019, 10:53:22 AM
It's an interesting show. In-studio footage includes scenes of the guys talking about and working on the then-unreleased "Goin' To The Beach". For the "live" performance, I seem to recall that local BBFUN members were invited to comprise the audience. At one point, right before the sax solo on "Goin' On", Carl's lip syncing is off; he realizes it, and gives one of his famous "faces". He then carries on, while smiling and briefly nodding at someone off-screen (the director, or someone in the audience), as if to acknowledge it and say, "Yeah, I know - but it's OK". Priceless. Also interesting is that there is absolutely no mention of Dennis; he was ostracized from the band at this point, but you'd think they would have at least acknowledged his absence somehow, especially since they make a big deal about how these album sessions marked a newfound "togetherness" and sense of unity for the band.

January 28th (two days before the onstage video shoot) was a busy day indeed for our Boys, who worked their balls off at Rumbo Recorders:  not only did they spend three hours adding some vocals to "Some Of Your Love" and "Oh Darlin'", guitar and horns were added to one song during another three-hour session, four hours were devoted to tape-copying and editing together the 24-track master of "Sunshine", an hour was spent dubbing cassette copies for the band, and 1.5 hours were allocated to making mono TV mixes of "Some Of Your Love" and "Goin' On" (yes, the TV special's audio is in mono - and this would seem to indicate either that mono mixes for the other tunes included in the program were made on another day, or simple stereo-to-mono fold-downs were made from rough mixes of those tunes). This information all comes from a CBS Records work order.

Many of the rough mixes used in the television program are indeed unique - for instance, the song "Keepin' The Summer Alive" lacks the eventual Joe Walsh slide guitar solo, enabling us to hear Carl's original "place-holder" solo; and "Goin' On" lacks the tympani overdub that was added on January 31st (the very next day after the video shoot). Also of note is that three of the album's songs are not included in the live "performance", and are absent from the special altogether:  "When Girls Get Together" (likely because it was a ten-year old recording, and wasn't well suited for a psuedo-live setting), "Santa Ana Winds", and "Livin' With A Heartache" ("Winds" was not completed in its final form until January 31st-February 1st, and "Heartache" was not tracked until January 31st, with overdubs following on February 5th, 14th, and 17th).  
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Can anyone help id this performance? on: January 24, 2019, 10:03:54 PM
Thanks.  Do you know the name of the show or anything else I could use to look it up?  Id love to see more of the footage from this. 

"Goin' Platinum". It was on either HBO or Showtime in 1980. Last I looked a few years back, the whole thing wasn't on YouTube, but maybe it is now.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Can anyone help id this performance? on: January 24, 2019, 07:45:24 PM
I think it's from the broadcast of the Beach Boys performing keeping the summer Alive album that was a special one-hour show back in 1980. I think

Yes, you are correct. Al's stylish red robe thing is the dead giveaway!  Smiley
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / 1968 On Tour Set now available in U.K. on: January 24, 2019, 08:48:48 AM
For U.K. readers - I've been told that the 1968 On Tour set is now available to stream or download at Amazon UK, priced at 45.89, and for 49.99 on iTunes.

I haven't independently verified that, but I HAVE checked Qobuz U.K. for a lossless version, and see that they have a 16-bit FLAC for 67.49. It's not on 7Digital U.K. yet, but likely will be soon.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Steel Guitar on Little Pad on: January 24, 2019, 08:36:59 AM
I only threw the possibility of being paid under the table out there as a possibility, and it could have been just that. The band by summer 1967 was still making a lot of money from Good Vibrations and the other successes they were having in 1966 including the tours. there was definitely no shortage of funds  if they did want to pay people to play on their records

Yeah, but again, I don't know why they would, if they could get Capitol to do it. If they wanted it to be tax free, they could "gross it up" by adding overtime or doubles to reach whatever net payout the guy wanted, and still ensure a pension contribution.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Steel Guitar on Little Pad on: January 23, 2019, 09:11:05 PM
I could be wrong, but I thought the lawsuit was settled by the time they were recording the Smiley album.

Don't know the exact date - Wikipedia only says the lawsuit was launched by the group in February, and was resolved by the time "Heroes And Villains" was released as a single in July. "Little Pad" was tracked in June.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Steel Guitar on Little Pad on: January 23, 2019, 08:54:24 PM
In the case of Little Pad, both Brian Wilson and Al Vescovo have said in interviews that Al was on the session - That's pretty strong evidence for both of the two most key members involved in that session to confirm the same answer.

Perhaps the missing names on the AFM sheets could be a case of paying under the table? It's the most plausible and simple way perhaps to explain the omissions. Tax-free money in pocket.


Not to doubt Brian and Mr. Vescovo, but this "paying under the table" doesn't really make sense. In order for them to have been paid under the table, Brian and the Boys would've had to fork over the funds themselves. At the time, they were involved in a lawsuit with Capitol, so I can't imagine why they would be willing to pay for studio musicians' time themselves, rather than allowing Capitol to foot the bill. I'm still thinking there must be a different answer...
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Steel Guitar on Little Pad on: January 23, 2019, 05:26:52 PM
*Al Jardine posted on Instagram the other day that Tommy Tedesco played ukulele on "Little Pad".

Seems like maybe the sheets are wrong for some of these sessions? Seems odd that Al and Brian would have such specific memories about this track that are wrong.


Who knows...I wish the session tapes were revealing, but they apparently aren't (so I'm told). All I can say is, if Tedesco and Vescovo were on those Smiley sessions, they weren't paid through the union, the way the Boys and Bergofher were, and it makes no sense to pay those two differently.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Steel Guitar on Little Pad on: January 23, 2019, 09:06:05 AM
So did Tommy Tedesco really play the ukulele on "Little Pad"?

If he did, he wasn't paid for it through the union. There are an AFM contracts for "Hawaiian Song" and for "Little Pad" itself, but the only non-Beach Boy or BB associate (engineer or contractor) listed is Chuck Bergohofer, who contributed upright bass to what became part of "She's Goin' Bald".  He's also listed on the contract for the alternate "With Me Tonight" several days earlier.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Steel Guitar on Little Pad on: January 22, 2019, 04:03:40 PM
it's Al Vescovo most likely on a pedal steel

Was thinking the same thing, however no pedals are used to play this 8 bar phrase. Its basic non-pedal single string on this cut.

I'm sure one of the band members could play it, however....the touch and intonation are dead on perfect, the way a pro steel player would play it.

I'm sure it's one of the guys, otherwise why would the name of Vescovo or another pro not appear on the AFM contract, when the Boys' names do?  All they'd have to do is rent a lap steel (or buy one, or borrow one), figure out the spots to slide to for each note, and mark those, then get one good take, then have Jimmy make tape copies and splice them together. Probably Carl did the playing, but maybe Brian. I tend to think Brian played a lot of parts on the Smiley tracks, due to recording with an 8-track, and the at-home nature of the sessions.
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