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658392 Posts in 26357 Topics by 3742 Members - Latest Member: Soulful Old Man River May 26, 2020, 10:48:38 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Many Moods of Murry Wilson questions on: May 23, 2020, 07:46:12 AM

It wouldn't be until 'Holland' in 1973 that Al receives another solo.. non-cover credit... with Holland's 1973 'California Saga'.



Well, Al actually received full songwriting credit for "Susie Cincinnati" when it appeared as the B-Side to "Add Some Music" in 1970.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: May 22, 2020, 06:23:00 PM
I just had a thought that an apt title would be "Columnated Ruins Domino"  Tongue

More seriously, what about "Good with the Soul" - what do you think?

Isn't the line "Good for my soul"?  I'll admit, though, that I can't remember which song it's even from - all I can think of at the moment is, "You've got so much soul, you blow my mind!" from "Got To Know The Woman".
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Cool interview with Steve Levine on: May 22, 2020, 05:42:15 AM
"Getcha back" often gets critisized because of the similarities to Springsteen's "Hungry heart", but it still is a very good single imo and tells a good story.

It speaks well of Springsteen's classiness and non-litigiousness that he didn't sue.  Certainly, if someone had so blatantly ripped off ML himself, there's no doubt that he'd have lawyered up toot suite.

Actually, the similarities are in the rhythm style and overall arrangements, but not the melodies or lyrics - so I doubt a lawsuit could be successfully mounted.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The first time The Beach Boys used the 8-track recorder on: May 17, 2020, 07:50:37 AM
Well, according to c-man's notes, the engineers present for each Pet Sounds song's final session who would've likely handled the mixes with Brian were:

Sloop John B - Chuck Britz & Winston Wong
You Still Believe in Me - unknown
Pet Sounds - Chuck Britz
Let's Go Away for Awhile - Chuck Britz
Wouldn't It Be Nice - Ralph Valentin & mysterious Don T.
Caroline No - Chuck Britz
I Know There's an Answer - possibly Bowen David
Don't Talk - Bowen David
I Just Wasn't Made for These Times - Ralph Valentin
That's Not Me - unknown
I'm Waiting for the Day - Ralph Valentin & Don T.
God Only Knows - Ralph Valentin
Here Today - possibly Jerry Hockman

A couple of early Wouldn't It Be Nice mono mixes from Feb 16 and March 3 would've been Chuck at Western. Lots of early mixes going around but I think that's the only song with totally different vocal attempts at different studios.

Yeah, and don't forget that Jim Lockert and Phil Kaye reportedly engineered some Pet Sounds sessions, according to Byron Preiss. Whether or not that means mixing or simply vocal overdub sessions, we don't know.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: is there a definitive bass list for David, Al and Brian during the 60's? on: May 16, 2020, 09:12:43 AM
Al played a modest amount from Sunflower to Holland, didn't he? Not that I can think of much outside of his own songs but he seemed more active instrumentally. Then of course Come Go With Me, and later MIU. It's pretty strange that Carl and Dennis were playing all over 15 Big Ones and Love You but Al basically only turned up for vocals, and in the case of 15BO quite a bit more than them on that end.

I think that's likely due to proximity - Al lived in Big Sur by then, whereas Dennis and Carl were still in the L.A. area. I'm guessing Al was in town whenever needed for vocal sessions, but didn't worry abut being there for the instrumental tracking, unless it was his song.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: is there a definitive bass list for David, Al and Brian during the 60's? on: May 16, 2020, 07:43:40 AM
SaltyMarshmallow, thanks for responding quickly and sorry for the doubting tone of my question. Itís just so shocking for me that Al can go from being the studio bassist to barely playing on anything unless he brought it the band or sang lead on it. But then again, this is The Beach Boys, and all sorts of crazy stuff has happened and continues to. Thanks again!!

No problem! Hey, it's still totally possible that Al played bass on Do It Again since there's no way to know for sure with most overdubs, it'd just be an odd kick in the trend at the time! It could've been Brian for all we know.

SaltyMarshmallow, do you have any clue about who played bass on the various Party! songs? Iím going to guess Bruce on Barbara Ann because he seems to play the same bassline at Knebworth. Not like we can use Brian in 2012 as a judge since he stays on the roots of the chords. Also, is Youíve Got To Hide Your Love Away the only one on that album with Carl on bass? Bruce does make a joke about Carl grabbing ďhis bass,Ē but it sounds like a joke.

It is strange that Al was such a prominent instrumentalist from Surfer Girl through Summer Days, and then drops out. Of course, he plays here and there, but sparingly. And like others have pointed off, when he does play, it's on something he's singing or co-wrote like Crack At Your Love, Island Girl, It's About Time...

Given the fact that much KTSA was recorded at his studio, I wonder if he played on that album more than one would think?

C-man said that he thinks itís because Alís very hard on his own playing, I donít think Al plays on Crack At Your Love, but he does (rhythm, Iím assuming) on California Calling. I remember c-man says that Al plays on Santa Ana Winds and Endless Harmony, plus at least one or two outtakes: Goiní To The Beach (and maybe Johnny B. Goode, but I canít remember.) Iím guessing School Days could be a possibility too?

Regarding "Barbara Ann" - Bruce once told me (in person) that Brian played the bass on that.

From the KTSA sessions, I only have AFM documentation and sometimes tape box track sheet notation to go by, as I've not heard the tapes. The only indication there of an Al instrumental contribution is on "Goin' To The Beach", on which both the AFM contract AND the track sheet notation indicate he added a guitar part. There's actually no documentation of him playing on "Santa Ana Winds", but I'd say there's a very good chance that he did (since it's his song, and since no other guitarist is documented as having played on it).


7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Blondie answers why he left the band on: May 15, 2020, 04:57:13 AM
I've never seen a statement from anyone implying that Mike had anything to do with Blondie's (or Ricky's) departure from the band.  Steve Love, yes, in the case of Blondie, but not Mike. As for Ricky, the closest would be the implementation of fines for drug use, but no mention of that being an idea of Mike's or Al's for that matter (Mike and Al being the two BBs who were known to be totally drug-free at the time) - meaning, that could have been a management (i.e. Steve Love) policy (like Murry's previous policy of fining for swearing onstage). Sources indicate that Blondie and Ricky, although they were "comfortable" doing the music and being "paid well", grew bored over time with not doing enough new music, with the final straw for Blondie being the incident with Steve Love and for Ricky being the aforementioned fine (these according to sources like David Leaf and Steven Gaines). If there was more to it than that, I've not seen it mentioned anywhere.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The first time The Beach Boys used the 8-track recorder on: May 14, 2020, 07:00:54 AM
Documentation is a bit sketchy, but the date would possibly be May 24, 1965, in a marathon session for "You're So Good To Me", "The Girl From New York City", "I'm Bugged At My Old Man", and "And Your Dream Comes True". However, Bruce has stated numerous times that his first vocal session with the group was for "California Girls", meaning it's possible that the later date given for that one (June 4) might really be the final mixdown date, and that their first use of the 8-track was really prior to May 24th. Smiley
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Blondie answers why he left the band on: May 14, 2020, 06:54:43 AM
The ďcolonial attitude ď though is the line that makes me pause. What did he mean by that?

If I remember the story as told in Heroes And Villains, Steve Love had used a racial slur to disparage Blondie which led to the fight.

Yeah, and Blondie then left under his own accord. For which I don't blame him. It is such a treat to have him back, though! I think he's great!
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Danelectro 6 on BBs records - a video introduction on: May 13, 2020, 07:02:37 PM
Jimmy Bond is on more of the late '60s/early '70s Beach Boys records than you might think...from Friends, he's on the title track and the outtake "Our Happy Home". From 20/20, he's on "Be With Me" and "I Went To Sleep" (as well as "Cabinessence", cut two years earlier). From Sunflower, he's on "Deirdre", "It's About Time", "All I Wanna Do", and "Forever". He's also on "Break Away", "Celebrate The News", and "Loop de Loop". And years later, he turns up as part of the string section on Pacific Ocean Blue!

Thereís a double bass in Itís About Time? I learn something new every day on this board.

Well yes - it's the only bass on the basic track. But, there's also an electric bass overdubbed, according to the track sheet. But that part where everything drops out except for the bass and Mike's bass vocal - that sounds to me like just upright bass.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Blondie answers why he left the band on: May 13, 2020, 06:59:04 PM
Not really news - the fistfight with Steve Love has been reported elsewhere over the years (the Gaines book back in '86, for one).
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Danelectro 6 on BBs records - a video introduction on: May 13, 2020, 05:34:34 AM
Jimmy Bond is on more of the late '60s/early '70s Beach Boys records than you might think...from Friends, he's on the title track and the outtake "Our Happy Home". From 20/20, he's on "Be With Me" and "I Went To Sleep" (as well as "Cabinessence", cut two years earlier). From Sunflower, he's on "Deirdre", "It's About Time", "All I Wanna Do", and "Forever". He's also on "Break Away", "Celebrate The News", and "Loop de Loop". And years later, he turns up as part of the string section on Pacific Ocean Blue!
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Danelectro 6 on BBs records - a video introduction on: May 12, 2020, 06:49:50 AM
Dano bass is love, Dano bass is life

In 1969 there was Break Away and Celebrate the News... any others beyond that?

How about the Sunflower "All I Wanna Do"? Jimmy Bond played upright bass on the basic track, but the AFM contract has him paid for 2 doubles. Listening through headphones, I hear the clacky sound of what might be a Dano, along with a Fender. Thoughts?
Could be, it's very plucky. I'm sure there's more than one bass there but the tracksheet only seemed to indicate one which probably means some bouncing together. Did Jimmy Bond play electric bass sometimes too? I thought he was just a string bass guy.

I remember Desper saying something about putting a mic on the strings as well as the amp for more of an attack... not sure which part that could factor into.

Yeah, Jimmy and Lyle both played electric bass quite a bit in the late '60s/early '70s - probably felt they had to adapt to the times!
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Danelectro 6 on BBs records - a video introduction on: May 12, 2020, 05:06:27 AM
Dano bass is love, Dano bass is life

In 1969 there was Break Away and Celebrate the News... any others beyond that?

How about the Sunflower "All I Wanna Do"? Jimmy Bond played upright bass on the basic track, but the AFM contract has him paid for 2 doubles. Listening through headphones, I hear the clacky sound of what might be a Dano, along with a Fender. Thoughts?
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Keep it clean with Al Jardine and watch this WIGU(TBAM) breakdown vid on: May 09, 2020, 07:40:52 AM
No, I actually think the BBs (well, Al and Dennis, at least) were more than happy to let the "pros" lay down the instrumental tracks. It was hard enough work doing take-after-take worth of vocal tracking, with Brian's meticulous ear. On the tracking session for "All Summer Long", it got to the point that Dennis actually said, "I hate this song!" That was after numerous takes and false-starts. I think they loved letting Brian and the "Crew" lay down the backing tracks, and whatever amount of work went into it, then devote their full energies to singing the song later.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Cool interview with Steve Levine on: May 09, 2020, 07:17:24 AM

Levine told both stories to Mark Dillon in 50 Sides Of The Beach Boys.

Yeah...in that book, Steve says Al later apologized for that incident, which is good to hear. Everyone's human!  Smiley
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: April 28, 2020, 07:52:33 PM
Here's a funny Brianism I found in an Q&A with Todd Rundgren:

"...when I met Brian he had no attention span. First thing he said when I got to his house was, ďI have the new Roy Wood single!Ē And he would put it on and play 15 seconds of it. Then he took it off, ran over to the piano and started tinkling out something, and then 20 seconds after that he was off doing another thing."

 

Didn't know he was a fan of Roy Wood! Any other artists Brian is a fan of that is sort of left field?

Well, Brian and Roy did record together in late '74...which is where the track for "It's OK" came from.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: April 28, 2020, 07:51:04 PM
If you have a copy on the 1983 Brother Records Smile bootleg, can you tell me who's performing "Vege-Tables"? Because it sounds like a Beach Boys cover band.

I don't have that one, but I seem to recall that it's Laughing Gravy (comprised of Dean, Brian, Marilyn and Diane).
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Confusing question on: April 28, 2020, 03:29:29 AM
Tandyn's officially credited for music but Stan Shapiro recently claimed on twitter that he wrote the lyrics. I took to mean he was part of the Ray Kennedy version, based on Brian and Danny Hutton's recollections that there were a lot of people around all trying to get a line in.

Yeah, the official credits are a mess, with Van initially not credited at all, then credited for music only when he also wrote the words to the hook line - Tandyn being credited with music when according to Stan, he actually wrote words (even if only a line or so) - and neither being credited at all on the officially-released KGB version. Even if Ray was unaware of Van's contribution at the time of his own involvement, the Beach Boys' version had still been released by that time, so he should've seen that he was credited...
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Confusing question on: April 27, 2020, 09:07:47 PM
Of course, the Beach Boys did play Holland in December 1970 (three shows, followed by a fourth in neighboring Belgium). And Ray Kennedy's recollection of the song's genesis has it taking place that year...and while not crediting Van Dyke Parks with co-authorship, Ray does at least acknowledge his involvement in a kinda cryptic way (in that VDP was the only person other than Ray who Brian felt should sing the song). In his 2016 memoir, Brian recalled that he originally wrote the song with Ray and Danny for Three Dog Night in 1970-'71, so that fits both with Ray's recollections of it being intended for Three Dog Night, and of it coming to life in 1970 (although Brian doesn't mention VDP's initial involvement, only him coming to the band's rescue by resurrecting the song a couple of years later).

If you ask me, the most likely scenario was that Brian started the song, Van got him to finish the music (and came up with the hook line) - possibly in December of '70 while, coincidentally as it turns out, the other Boys actually were in Holland...then Ray got together with Brian very shortly after, and provided the initial set of lyrics (as described by Ray below). Two years later, Van reminds everyone of this gem in Brian's back pocket, at which point Jack rewrites the lyrics (keeping only a handful of Ray's original words). And as for Tandyn...maybe Brian felt bad about his name being removed from "Marcella", and just gave him a fourth of "SOS" to make up for it?

Ray Kennedy:
"Danny Hutton, one of the original singers of Three Dog Night, called me in 1970 when I was singing with Jeff Beck and said, 'Hey, we need a hit song.' So I went over to his house, and Brian was there in a little room with a piano and they stuck me in that room with Brian. We were there for three days and ended up writing 'Sail on Sailor', which was originally intended for Three Dog. We went in and cut the basic tracks with Three Dog Night; we hadn't slept in about a week. Then Brian got up with a razor blade and cut the tapes and said, "Only Ray Kennedy or Van Dyke Parks can do this song." And he left. We all stood there looking at each other going, 'What?'
 
"He called me every day after that, and I wouldn't talk to him. Three or four years later, I heard it on the radio and went, "Who's that?' It turns out the song came out on the Beach Boys' Holland album."  

Incidentally, other than very commonly used words such as "I" and "a", only eight of Ray's original words were kept in the final draft - specifically, "Often frightened, unenlightened", "stumble", "heartbreak", "wail", and "the thunder" (I'm giving Ray credit here for the very commonly used word "the" because it appears in a phrase with the not so commonly used word "thunder"). Smiley
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: is there a definitive bass list for David, Al and Brian during the 60's? on: April 25, 2020, 08:29:55 AM
I'll have to dig out my SOT disc and listen to the full session for "Surfer's Rule", but my recollection is that Carl definitley played bass on "South Bay Surfer" and overdubbed the lead guitar.

And, while not bootlegged, I've heard the full session tape for "Little Deuce Coupe", and that one definitely has Carl on bass, Brian on piano, and David playing the only guitar. Which is interesting, since it was cut at the same session as "Surfer Girl" (Brian on bass), and the basic track for "Catch A Wave" (Al on bass). Three songs in three hours, each with a different Beach Boy playing bass.
Probably the only time THAT ever happened!

Although, there was the Party! session at which Carl overdubbed bass on "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away" - if Brian and Bruce both played bass that particular day, that would count. And, of course there's there were the Lei'd In Hawaii concerts at which Carl, Al, and Brian each took turns on the bass (professionally recorded, therefore counting as a recording session).
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: is there a definitive bass list for David, Al and Brian during the 60's? on: April 25, 2020, 08:21:00 AM
Before Today is not my personnel wheelhouse, but here's what I've got for Today, SDSN, and PS:

Today:

Al plays bass on: DHMLS, WIGU(TBAM), SKMTW and is the only BB to play bass on that record.



Uh...Brian is on bass for "Dance, Dance, Dance", and likely overdubbed a 6-string Dano part on "I'm So Young".
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Don't know if this has been discussed on: April 23, 2020, 06:47:24 AM
Denny won the interview with this line: "Hey man, a piece of wheat growing in the field has just as much right to be alive as a rabbit."


Yeah, weird times indeed...reminds me of what Dennis Dragon once told me: on DD's first tour with the Boys (the Maharishi tour that year), DD mentioned he was a vegetarian. DW's response was to shove a hamburger in his face. Smiley
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do You Wanna Dance - Guitar Production Video on: April 18, 2020, 08:54:45 AM
Brian knew how to use a pick.



But apparently Van did not?  Smiley
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do You Wanna Dance - Guitar Production Video on: April 18, 2020, 06:43:04 AM
I'll buy that! Never considered that possibility, but you're right - who else would it be?

Right, that's the conclusion I came to when compiling my credits and essays years ago, although I don't currently have that one up on my website. I considered that it might be Al, but Brian certainly came up with the riff himself, and it would've been just as easy, or easier, to pick up the bass and play it himself, than to take the time to teach it to Al. As far as the obvious pick sound on the strings...even though Brian has never been known to use one himself, remember that Bruce once told me that Brian would sometimes use his thumbnail as a pick!
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