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627138 Posts in 25165 Topics by 3580 Members - Latest Member: drummer_from_mars February 18, 2018, 12:42:50 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: January 28, 2018, 08:22:36 PM
Dang! Righteous props.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: January 28, 2018, 12:01:34 PM
For what it's worth - info from the "Surf's Up" 1971 AFM contract:

Piano: Mike Rubini
Guitar or bass: Bill Pitman
Bass: Lyle Ritz
Drums: Frank Capp
Percussion: Gene Estes
Woodwinds: Plas Johnson, Jay Migliori, Allan Beutler
Trumpet: Roy Caton
Tuben horn and/or French horn: David Duke
French horns: Alan Robinson and Gale Robinson

Recorded at Sunset Sound Recorders, Hollywood, Friday June 18, 1971, 10:00am-5:00pm
Artist is listed as "The Beach Boys", employer name has "Brother Records" crossed off & "Marilyn Wilson" written in.
Dianne Rovell is the contractor...she and "leader" Mike Rubini stayed til 5:00pm, the others only until 1:30.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's Favourite Instruments on: January 28, 2018, 08:22:47 AM
Not sure where the notion of the ARP Odyssey on Love You is from...can any vintage keyboard nerd (meant affectionately) tell us for sure? All the track sheet documentation seems to indicate only mini-Moog and ARP String Ensemble were used on that one (and on Big Ones as well)...

I should qualify my statement above...the Love You track sheets that include an ARP among the instruments listed are "Honkin' Down The Highway", "Solar System" and "The Night Was So Young" - in all three cases, the annotation is for "string ensemble" or some variation in spelling of the same, but those are obvious references to the ARP instrument of that name. There is, however, one song from that album where the track sheet annotation actually reads "Arp" - and that is "Ding Dang", recorded three or four years prior to the album's release, in 1973 or 1974. The ARP instrument on THAT song could very well be the Odyssey, or perhaps the Pro Soloist...either way, I believe it's responsible for the "horn" sound on that song.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's Favourite Instruments on: January 28, 2018, 07:50:13 AM
Not sure where the notion of the ARP Odyssey on Love You is from...can any vintage keyboard nerd (meant affectionately) tell us for sure? All the track sheet documentation seems to indicate only mini-Moog and ARP String Ensemble were used on that one (and on Big Ones as well)...

Sorry I might be completely wrong on that, Iíve just seen pictures of Brian playing one and assumed it was Love You.

If it's the one where he's beardless...then that's actually from the Fort Dodge, Iowa sessions with David Sandler in '73.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's Favourite Instruments on: January 26, 2018, 09:34:49 PM
Not sure where the notion of the ARP Odyssey on Love You is from...can any vintage keyboard nerd (meant affectionately) tell us for sure? All the track sheet documentation seems to indicate only mini-Moog and ARP String Ensemble were used on that one (and on Big Ones as well)...
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sessions 64' EP on: January 21, 2018, 11:56:33 AM
Not sure who played on The Timers' version of "No Go Showboart", but I can tell  you it was recorded at RCA on October 11, 1963 (prior to the release of The Beach Boys' version on Little Deuce Coupe), and that Brian contributed backing vocals.

The track for what became The Castell's version of "I Do" was cut at RCA on November 7, 1963, with Milt Norman, Bill Pitman, and Tommy Tedesco on guitars, Ray Pohlman on Fender bass, Howard Roberts on 6-string Dano bass, Jimmy Bond on upright bass, Leon Russell and Al de Lory on keyboards, Hal Blaine on drums, Frank Capp on percussion, Steve Douglas and Plas Johnson on tenor sax, and Jay Migliori on bari sax.

The track for "He's A Doll" was cut at Gold Star on February 17, 1964, with Bill Pitman, Joe Gibbons, and Ervan "Bud" Coleman on guitars, Ray Pohlman on Fender bass, Jimmy Bond on upright bass, Leon Russell, Al de Lory, and Larry Knechtel on keyboards, Hal Blaine on drums, Gene Estes on percussion, Steve Douglas and Plas Johnson on tenor sax, and Jay Migliori on bari sax.

Ervan "Bud" Coleman wrote "Tijuana Taxi" for Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass. Plas Johnson's most famous recording is probably the Henry Mancini-composed "Pink Panther" theme.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carl and Kowalski on: January 18, 2018, 05:34:08 PM

I'm loathe to speculate too much or get too personal, but when you *watch* footage of him drumming, he seems *VERY* stiff. I tend to wonder if he actually had some sort of physical ailment (back problems, shoulder/elbow problems, etc.) that was causing some of this.


I was about four rows from the (revolving) stage at a 1991 concert. I was really impressed by Mike K's drumming (my impression may have been boosted by being THAT close to the band for the first time in my life). But immediately afterwards, as the crowd was leaving, I spied Mr. K. heading into a little side room to receive a massage from a professional therapist. So I would tend to believe your theory!
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carl and Kowalski on: January 18, 2018, 05:30:42 PM
And why were Ed and Billy let go ?


I think in at least one case it was at least mutual, if not entirely the individual's choice, just based on what I've read. I can't say for certain, but I get the impression that the Mike/Al divide that had developed may have led one or both to decide it was time to go. And I don't think it was a surprise, as I recall reading in ESQ the year before that at least one longtime touring member would likely be retiring in the near future.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Instrument Challenge on: January 18, 2018, 04:17:58 AM
It's also sometimes referred to as the "mouth organ". Strangely, the back cover of Meet The Beatls names both the "harmonica" and the "mouth organ" among instruments played by the Fab Four...although they're the same thing (as far as I know)!
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Instrument Challenge on: January 17, 2018, 03:33:37 AM
My question is was there a session musician logged for the Ronda session playing harmonica?

Yes - Billy Riley, the rockabilly great who passed away awhile back.

That's fascinating, I had no idea. So it's the same Billy Lee Riley who cut those manic records on Sun in the 50's, blowing harp on "Ronda"? Hot damn!

I mean, I'm shocked to hear that it's the same guy! Billy Lee Riley even by rockabilly's standards was manic, just crazy on his vocals, as wild as rockabilly was and even a notch above Jerry Lee Lewis on some of those records Riley cut at Sun. And the same guy played on "Ronda"!

It borders on the surreal! Lot of folks gonna hear "Ronda" differently in future----and maybe even appreciate it more. Thanks, c-man.

According to his Wikipedia page, "In 1962, he moved to Los Angeles and worked as a session musician with Dean Martin, the Beach Boys, Herb Alpert, and Sammy Davis Jr., among others, and also recorded under various aliases." The source cited is: Wilkerson, Tony (2002). "Rockabilly Hall of Fame Biography". Retrieved June 26, 2017. The page lists several harmonica albums he cut, including Harmonica Beatlemania on Mercury in '65.

He eventually moved back to Arkansas and went into the construction business, but ultimately returned to music. And - speaking of "Hot damn!" - you may or may not know that was the title of his 1997 Grammy-nominated album!

Lastly - Billy L. Riley is also listed as playing harmonica on the session sheet for the BBs' "Don't Let Me Wonder" (aka "Please Let Me Wonder"), although I can't really hear it - if he's there, I'm assuming he blends in with the horns...
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis on on: January 16, 2018, 08:35:53 PM
No offense but there is no way that's not Brian on the I got a Heart section.  My expertise may lie more on the 70's recordings but that's one area I can't be swayed from minus the invention of a time machine

Oh yeah, I totally agree...I'm just sayin' if I listen thinking it's Dennis or Carl with their soulful late '60s voices, I could convince myself of that...but of course, I know better. Smiley
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Instrument Challenge on: January 16, 2018, 08:31:03 PM

My question is was there a session musician logged for the Ronda session playing harmonica?

Yes - Billy Riley, the rockabilly great who passed away awhile back. For the "When I Grow Up" session, Carroll "Cappy" Lewis (a trumpet player) is listed on the AFM sheet, but there's some question as to whether he actually played this date, or was merely being compensated for being left off the contract for a Christmas album session...I suppose it's possible Brian may have initially hired him to play trumpet on "When I Grow Up", and at the last minute changed the part to the harmonica...this would explain why Lewis was paid both $61 (the same as Dennis, Carl, and Al were for the "When I Grow Up" session) AS WELL AS $101 (the same rate most musicians were paid for the earlier Christmas Album session), and why the latter fee was added to the contract at a later date. I agree that the harmonica part in question is extremely simple, and could have been played by most anyone (but not Brian, Carl, Dennis, or Al, as they were all seemingly occupied playing parts on harpsichord, guitar, hi-hat, and bass - respectively - on the very same overdub as the harmonica)...I've wondered if maybe the harmonica was played by Mike (not likely, though, as his name does not appear on the AFM contract), or maybe roadie (and non-union member) Ron Swallow (he was definitely present at the session). But none of this satisfactorily explains why "Cappy" Lewis was paid BOTH $61 AND $101 for this session...
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis on \ on: January 16, 2018, 06:37:07 PM
I just listened again, through headphones, to the mono mix...and I'm now convinced that we had it right to begin with - Carl all the way on the chorus lead (all three lines). MAYBE it's Dennis on the "Tell me, tell me" background part, with Brian finishing the line. Approaching it with the notion that it may be Dennis singing the lead on the second chorus line leads to me thinking it could be Dennis on ALL of those chorus lead lines, AS WELL as on the "I-I got a heart" part, which we all know is Brian. And approaching it with the notion that it might be Carl on ALL those lead lines leads me to believe it MIGHT be Carl on all of them (including "I-I got a heart...").

In short: it's in the genes. Wilson DNA was such that those three bros could, and often did, sound uncannily alike (at least before B and D turned into human chimneys with their nicotine intake).
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Instrument Challenge on: January 16, 2018, 06:17:17 PM
One more thing, I assume it's the same harmonica as the one used on Help Me, Ronda...

Was that an Ab harmonica, too?
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds Desk - still in existence? on: January 15, 2018, 03:43:36 PM

But Columbia with that kind of setup in 1965-66, yeah they had the much bigger budget to afford such things as shown in those photos. Columbia/CBS was/is after all "The Tiffany Network"  Grin

Which is why their control room pictures are in color and better resolution than the crappy, B&W shot from Western's control room.

Just kidding.  Evil
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian at Hawthorne HS recently on: January 15, 2018, 10:46:12 AM
So "Surfin" has now officially has been graded an A instead of an F by the school.  Smiley  Brian is actually looking pretty good in the photo.

Y'know, I've often wondered about this...supposedly "Surfin'" wasn't written until Brian was in college...but it's been said his very first composition was "Surfer Girl"...so maybe THAT was the actual composition that earned him an "F" (and now an "A")?
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BEACH BOYS 1968 - LETS BE FRIENDS on: January 15, 2018, 08:30:12 AM
<< hear the other members (and Desper even) step up a bit more in the studio (Carl producing I Can Hear Music) if audio of this exists.>>

The Unsurpassed Masters boot series includes audio from the "I Can Hear Music" sessions - Carl laying down the initial track with Dennis, then some overdubs including one featuring Carl, Dennis, Bruce, and Mike Kowalski.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian at Hawthorne HS recently on: January 15, 2018, 08:27:08 AM
He's looking pretty good!  Smiley
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds Desk - still in existence? on: January 14, 2018, 12:52:57 PM
Maybe you already know this, willmansell - but the board used to record the BBs album prior to Pet Sounds (meaning, Beach Boys Party!) is now owned by Mark Linett - that came from Western Studio 2, and now resides (last I heard, anyway) in Mark's studio (Your Place Or Mine Recording).
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The very last time certain instruments were played on BB tracks? on: January 14, 2018, 08:25:41 AM
Listening to "You're Still A Mystery" from MIC last night in my car, I realized THAT'S the last time the Leslie guitar effect was used on a Beach Boys track...so I edited my original reply on page one of this thread to reflect that! Smiley
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Instrument Challenge on: January 13, 2018, 10:41:12 PM
My understanding is that it is a chromatic harmonica, though I don't know what further evidence exists.

Frankly, the revelation that the harpsichord may have been electronic was surprising enough!

Yeah, well - I don't think the harpsichord was electronic, after all. I originally did, but now I don't. Smiley
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis on \ on: January 12, 2018, 08:17:13 PM
Heard back from A.B.:

"Well, I obviously canít say for sure exactly whoís singing what on Arenít You Glad, but I could believe that Dennis MIGHT be singing the tell me part. That thought had crossed my mind before. But Iím not sure. The next time I have the unreleased mixes handy Iíll give it a close listen and let you know what I think...

"Yes, we had to grab an 'arenít' from later in the chorus to fill that bit since itís not on the 8 track.  In Pro Tools, Mark flew in the word and edited it into the vocal track on the digital multi. As for how they handled that edit back in 1967, itís hard to say since we donít seem to have the actual first gen album mono master (like Smiley, the mono 'master' of the album was actually a second generation dub, presumably because the first generation tape, as per Smiley, would have been too fragile and splicey to use for production, and might not have had all of the fades in place). So we canít say for sure that thereís an edit there on the tape at that point. One certainly never leapt out at me, listening to the mono all these years (unlike edits in Wouldnít It Be Nice, Good Vibrations, Heroes and Villains, and others)

"So yes, Iím betting Carl overdubbed the part when they did the mixdown. That would certainly explain why it sounds like a different take. That fix would have been wayyy easier in 1967 than trying to nail that edit on a 1/4íí mono master with a razor blade.

"We had to fly in the little ďdoo dooĒ vocal part after the first chorus, as that wasnít on the multi, either. Fortunately, itís almost acapella in the mono mix, so that was easy to grab.

"The master tape of Arenít You Glad was slowed down before they laid down the vocals. My guess is that may have been to get the song more into Mikeís comfort range for the verse leads? Just speculation on my part here."


So there - some questions answered, some still a mystery! Remember, those Wilson boys had a knack for sounding like each other...but I agree that it MIGHT be Dennis on the second chorus lead line of the Mono mix (perhaps added during the mixdown, like the above-mentioned parts that are not on the multi-track).
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Instrument Challenge on: January 12, 2018, 08:04:50 PM
Double-reed? Or single reed?
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis on \ on: January 11, 2018, 09:42:56 PM
To me, it sounds like Carl singing the "lead" throughout the chorus, with Brian singing the "Tell me, tell me" supporting part, and CARL singing the "when I say hey!". Let me check with Mr. Boyd on his thoughts.
Hmmm...on second thought, MAYBE it IS Dennis singing the second lead line in the chorus...

Meantime, what are everyone's thoughts on this: to me, it sounds like the trumpet lines in the intro and pre-verses are from the Chamberlain, as opposed to the trumpets in the chorus, which are definitely real...

EDIT: in the stereo mix, it sounds like one guy singing that lead chorus line throughout...maybe Carl, maybe Dennis...as opposed to the mono mix, where I agree it sounds like Carl on the first and third line, and Dennis on the second...
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Bad news for Bruce? on: January 11, 2018, 04:10:41 PM

Buckle-up humanity - we're in for a bumpy ride.  At least we have love, music and comedy to help us along.



Amen, on both notes.
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