Much obliged for you shedding extra light, C-Man. Sounds like Carl made the decision to decamp, albeit briefly, to Shangri-La. The Band may have washed their hands of the studio by this time—I’m uncertain. Love both those groups dearly.

I should have said lead vocal on "Goin' South", too.

Any specific tracks from LA (Light Album) that we can pinpoint to being cut at Shangri-La?

Backing vocals on "Goin' South", plus an unreleased backing track for the outtake "I'm Beggin' You Please".
EDIT: I should have said lead vocal on "Goin' South", too.

I've listened to the song a couple of times and I just don't hear the background vocals. I wonder if I'm listening to the wrong song! LOL

Have you listened all the way through to the end?

Shangri-la Studios, in Malibu, near Zuma Beach. Previously owned by The Band, I believe (you can see some footage of those guys at that studio in The Last Waltz). Portions of L.A. (Light Album) were recorded there, although the studio is not name-checked in the inner sleeve credits. Glad to see it's still operating.

Aside from the heading, it’s ’Beachboys’ all the way. 🤔
They really had slipped into oblivion by 71 hadn’t they?

Yes, but it wouldn't be long before the counterculture realized they were "freeks" now.

He's got some chords wrong...

And it's not disputed AT ALL which Bassists made it to the final cut. 

That said -- wonderful to get a substantive musicological look at a Beach Boys song!

So you are saying that Carole Kaye is not on the final track at all?  Because I thought she was playing the upper part and Ray Pohlman was playing the lower part on acoustic bass.

She is not and has never been on the final track at all. The electric part she usually takes credit for in the verse is Ray Pohlman, and the upright response is Lyle Ritz.

Thanks.  I never knew, but I haven't really questioned it either. 

EDIT: I just checked the book with the Smile Sessions big box, and found the final master credits for the verses with that info. 

You could also go back to the 1997 Pet Sounds box set, which includes the full master take from the first "GV" session on 2/17-18/66 as a bonus track. You'll notice that the verses from that version are the ones used in the final 1966 single edit. You'll also notice that in that box, Ray Pohlman is credited with Fender bass and Lyle Ritz with "string" (i.e., upright) bass. You could then also find the Keith Badman book on The Beach Boys and see a reproduction of the American Federation of Musicians contract from that date, which names those two, but not Carol Kaye. And, you could then track down the Sea Of Tunes "Unsurpassed Masters, Vol. 15" bootleg set covering the "Good Vibrations" sessions and hear the actual session tape for that version, on which Brian can be heard giving instructions to Ray as the Fender bassist, and on which there is no mention of, or audible voice of, Carol Kaye.

Doesn’t Carol still swear she is on the record?

Last I heard, yeah. And any amount of evidence to the contrary isn't likely to change her belief. But trust us - although she played on some of the GV sessions (guitar on some, bass on others), none of those sessions was used in the final edit.

Billy was more than gracious with me over the years, answering tons of questions related to my research. Definitely one of the best of that bunch. At least he, Carl and Dennis can be together now.

...I think it's significant that Carl's songs are almost all in easy keys on the guitar -- D, G, and such...

Interestingly, Carl (a guitarist) apparently wrote a lot on the piano: LONG PROMISED ROAD, FEEL FLOWS, ALL THIS IS THAT and THE TRADER are all songs which seem to have been written on piano, and for which he played electric piano while performing them onstage. ANGEL COME HOME, on the other hand, was definitely written on guitar, using a modal tuning (and a capo!). Likewise, he seemingly wrote all (or most) of the songs on his solo albums on guitar. And, interestingly, he stated that his songs on the 1985 BBs album were written on guitar, but transposed for keyboard (synths being the dominant instrument on those tracks, as it is for the whole album).

That interview was great - a lot of solid questions. Brian’s mix of SOS sounds fascinating!

Don't you mean FP?

Yeah, Todd's Faithful album from '76 is a pretty good listen...one side note-for-note covers of iconic songs from '66 (although I think a couple are actually from '67), and one side originals (including the amazing "When I Pray" - which was also the B-Side to his "Good Vibrations" single A-Side). Haven't heard this album in decades, but I really enjoyed it.

Took me a while to get around to watching the latest. I appreciate the compare/contrast examples, so thanks again!

One thing about 'Deirdre' is that it's a perfect example of what I guess I would call Sesame Street Soft Pop. I recall some users of the old Smile Shop boards being into the Joe Raposo sound, and I get that vibe from this song. The flutes, especially.  In a similar vein, I also get a kind of "Shaft"/soundtrack vibe. So it's dated to its era but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Right...while I think a full album of "Deirdre"-style arrangements would NOT have been appropriate for the band at this juncture of their career (or any, for that matter), one or two cuts in this vein - meaning, the big, old-timey "Hollywood"-style arrangement and production (for lack of a better description) was fine in the context of what else is on Sunflower. With The Beatles' white album, we get cuts like "Martha My Dear", "Honey Pie", and "Good Night", but also stuff like "Helter Skelter", "Yer Blues", and "Me And My Monkey", plus many different styles in-between. A very wide range of styles showcasing the Fabs' wide songwriting scope - and people love it. I look at Sunflower as doing the same thing for the Hawthorne Hotshots. Too many "It's About Time"'s maybe would've fit better in with the current "scene", but I think everyone understood at this point that the BBs transcended one single genre. If only U.S. radio and the general public had given that album more of a chance, it might have done at least as well as Surf's Up would do a year later.

The problem for the band was that none of the other songwriters--Dennis, Carl, Bruce, Al, Mike--were capable of producing hits. They all came up with good to great material, but none of it registered in the swirling world of late 60s-early 70s rock, and none of it could cut beyond Brian and the SMiLE myth. That shadow was cast over everything.

Well, wouldn't it be fair to say that until then, at least CARL and AL were capable of producing a minor hit each (not as songwriters, sure) but as PRODUCERS: i CAN HEAR MUSIC  and COTTON FIELDS (re-produced single version)?

Yes, but working solely with covers as material...not a great way to boost your cred in the early '70s "hip" culture, especially coming from a band that once produced self-penned hits. If you had strong, contemporary "hit" material of your own, maybe you could get away with a cover now and then.

Unless we're talking about a certain 7 minute plus song.  (no tongue in cheek emoji I can see, so I've chosen a random one)

I don't really buy into the length being an issue, it came down to other issues.

Yeah...WIBNTLA would have to have been edited somewhat (likely to trim the ending ala MIC) in order to add it to the album and not drop something else. But I agree with you that it came down to other issues. It's also been said that the dispute resulted from Dennis' insistence that the LP close with WIBTLA, following TID, and that placing it anywhere else in the running order would lessen the effect. Once Jack and Carl determined that SU would be the closer, Dennis pulled his song(s) from the project altogether. 

Well said, Don - I think you present the situation in a very insightful way, if "insight" is the right word to describe thoughts on the situation from those of us who weren't actually present. Again, well said.

A couple of thoughts - (1) yes, none of the guys except Brian really had the goods to musically deliver "commercial" songs at that point (Mike previously had the knack for delivering commercial lyrics for Brian's tunes, but the subjects he'd had commercial success with previously were mostly passé at this point - "Good Vibrations" being a probable exception)...but would Brian have even been able to deliver music that was commercially relevant in the early '70s, assuming he even wanted to? "Sail On Sailor" would come close a couple of years later, but even that wasn't a huge hit, just kind of a medium hit, and not even the first time around, really...and, (2) I think Carl's belated emergence as a songwriter at this point cannot be understated...remember, Carl wasn't really writing songs before '71, not even on Sunflower, just helping the others finish theirs in one or two cases...suddenly, he's putting music to Jack's words (or the other way around), and contributing two majorly significant tracks. Maybe Jack's thought was, "Well, Dennis had the spotlight on the previous album, with four of his songs....let's give Carl a chance in the spotlight now."  Yes, it's a shame that a Dennis song or two wasn't also included, though. Truthfully, each side of Surf's Up is about four minutes shorter than the second side of Sunflower, so it's not as though there wasn't room for two of his songs on there...

Mike just posted this on Facebook, along with a couple of onstage pictures:

Thanks to Jeffrey Foskett for joining us for a couple shows last week! It was great sharing the stage with him again.
We Love you Jeff ❤️

So what compelled the band to dust this one off for KTSA?  Were they running short on material?

They considered a couple of other tracks from the vaults as well..."San Miguel" and "Been Way To Long". I think the former would have fit in just as well as "WGGT", and maybe with the inclusion of that, "WGGT" wouldn't stick out quite so much. "Been Way Too Long", on the other hand, would likely have sounded unfinished...unless, of course, they finished it. In the end, it was Bruce who pushed for the inclusion of "WGGT", and being the official de facto producer, I guess he had final say. Obviously, the record label was OK with it, as well.

Just a couple of things they got incorrect about the two Carl/Randy songs recorded by the Beach Boys...the album versions were freshly-recorded, and don't use elements of the demo tracks recorded at The Barn (the later RB-produced version of "KSTA" from his subsequent band, Union, does)...and the BBs album KTSA came out in '80, not '85.

Interesting. I had never noticed before how the voicing of the chorus harmony  (I - Vm) recalls John Barry's "You Only Live Twice"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_w4DVgvVHs

I guess that Billy Strange was not the only Wrecking Crew member there...

Or the theme from "Midnight Cowboy". Or the Danny Kirwan/Fleetwood Mac instrumental "Sunny Side Of Heaven".

I once heard "Sail On, Sailor" at either Publix or Kroger back in the 90's that music was out of print.  But by far the rarest thing I've ever heard was a muzak version of "Surf's Up" in an airport...also back in the 90's!

Yeah, I used to hear that muzak "SU" now and then in the hallways at work, along with a muzak "Sail On Sailor" and "Warmth Of The Sun". It was indeed the early '90s, when muzak was still a thing. Nowadays, I'm not surprised to hear Bon Scott-era AC/DC songs (the actual original recordings) at my local grocery store ("Dirty Deeds", "Big Balls", etc.). How times have changed!

Nice. I remember reading that Starbucks played "Daylight Over The Ocean"...and maybe "Beaches In Mind"...from TWGMTR shortly after its release.

I believe this is the essay in question:

https://www.shindig-magazine.com/?p=4986

What's here is quite like fodder for a long, complicated thread, but if the description in the section of the essay pertaining to "Wouldn't It Be Nice (to Live Again)" is any indication, there was (as Jack Rieley has been quoted as saying) simply too much music being created in the time frame after SUNFLOWER's release for the group to process it properly. The question of how the "Poops" songs were supposed to seque is worth some time from some of our more advanced musicians/musical thinkers, and I hope that some folks will take it up.

But the central mystery that I'd love to have solved is why "Make It Good" and "Cuddle Up" got selected for CATP over "Wouldn't It Be Nice (to Live Again)." Neither of those tracks could possibly have been seen as singles, and it must have been apparent even then that WIBNTLA was a superior track.

Perhaps Dennis thought that if he was going to have two cuts on CATP, they should be those two similarly-styled orchestral pieces. He had reportedly really gotten into Wagnerian symphonies at the time, and probably just decided to finish those two in that style for release (the orchestra wasn't added to the basic tracks until spring '72, after the decision had been made to include them on the album).

Not so much a comment or opinion on the new mix, but rather an anecdote that in one 1980 KTSA review that I remember, the writer's opinion was that THIS track was the ONLY good one on the album! Another writer in another 1980 review was of the exact opposite opinion, and wrote that this was the only real "turkey" on the album! Just goes to show how subjective opinions can be.

"Surfin" and parts of Love You

Ah yes, "Surfin'" and, of course, "Luau".

These are the songs that I remember that Brian plays drums on.

The Wanderer (live)
Sandy She Needs Me (?)
Funky Pretty
You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin'
about 2/3rds of Love You (all except Good Time, Honkin' Down the Highway, Mona, I Wanna Pick You Up, Ding Dang, and The Night Was So Young)

iirc, Brian doesn't play on sandy. Another instance of him drumming is where is she (he also plays the guitar on that)

I think it is quite possibly Brian who drums on "Sandy"...the drums were overdubbed, with Dennis seemingly absent.