[How did you come up with the idea for the classical-sounding introduction to "Lady Lynda"?A friend of mine, Ron Altbach, he and I decided to write something together. I was familiar with his love of classical music. I was at the Johann Sebastian Bach festival up here in Carmel which happens every summer up here. I heard that beautiful piece sung at the Mission Cathedral here in Carmel. Gorgeous piece. It's called "Jesu Joy Of Man's Desiring." It was written for the church. When I heard that movement I went, "My God, that's too heavy! Maybe I can start the song with this thing." [laughs] Ron is such a great player that it just worked. We had to hire a classical guy to play an absolutely beautiful harpsichord that was brought in just for the occasion. It was a monster session with a 26-string orchestra, the harpsichord. Harry Betts arranged the strings. I can't remember if Dennis played the drums. Dennis helped me with the track. We played it live at a couple of places before we recorded it. I think he played drums. I did that 12-string guitar. It was a beautiful 12-string guitar that I still have. It would have worked better if it had been on my own album, but it certainly worked. We always seemed to be five people making five different albums on the same album.]

I read on wikipedia that Dennis was an uncredited co-arranger for the strings on "Lady Lynda". First time I ever heard that. Is there any truth to that?

Al mentioned in an interview that Dennis "helped" him "with the track." What exactly that constitutes wasn't made clear. I don't know if it would rise to the level of co-arranger.

From Al's 2000 Goldmine interview:

How did you come up with the idea for the classical-sounding introduction to "Lady Lynda"?

A friend of mine, Ron Altbach, he and I decided to write something together. I was familiar with his love of classical music. I was at the Johann Sebastian Bach festival up here in Carmel which happens every summer up here. I heard that beautiful piece sung at the Mission Cathedral here in Carmel. Gorgeous piece. It's called "Jesu Joy Of Man's Desiring." It was written for the church. When I heard that movement I went, "My God, that's too heavy! Maybe I can start the song with this thing." [laughs] Ron is such a great player that it just worked. We had to hire a classical guy to play an absolutely beautiful harpsichord that was brought in just for the occasion. It was a monster session with a 26-string orchestra, the harpsichord. Harry Betts arranged the strings. I can't remember if Dennis played the drums. Dennis helped me with the track. We played it live at a couple of places before we recorded it. I think he played drums. I did that 12-string guitar. It was a beautiful 12-string guitar that I still have. It would have worked better if it had been on my own album, but it certainly worked. We always seemed to be five people making five different albums on the same album.

I'm curious if C-Man or anybody else can chime in on who played drums on the final released version of the song. It's worth noting that even when Dennis was on tour, Bobby Figueroa usually drummed on the song (and, if I'm recalling correctly, Kowalski on the 1978 Australia dates). 

C-man has credited Bobby Figueroa with the drums on th master. It is among one of the many credits I have been adding to Wikipedia to correct and expand it. Going on the LA wiki page gives this reference:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,21772.25.html

Don't get me thinking about a reunion that's not fair.

I'm pretty sure this will be about some sort of sunflower era release

Agreed. Especially with the state of Brian’s shows (sadly), though I would shell out the money if another reunion happened.

I’d be fine with either, or both.

NB: Maybe another reunion would re-energize Brian’s performances, not that I expect to happen though.

Am I the only one who doesn’t hear Carl supposedly say “shunshine” during Soulful Old Man Sunshine?

You don't hear it at 2:08?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcS8MmrYoYY

Ok, I hear it now. Never knew it only happened one time. Thought Carl sang that every time. And he vetoed its release because of one word? Crazy.

Am I the only one who doesn’t hear Carl supposedly say “shunshine” during Soulful Old Man Sunshine?

As a one off tribute deal? Sure, but I don’t think the numbers would stack up for anything ongoing. Brian has ‘legend’ status due to his work. Al, by far the best voice still going, doesn’t. I think Al has hit the sweet spot tour wise with his story teller theme.

Just curious to hear others’ ideas and thought maybe Al’s demand would increase if Brian wasn’t touring.

Does anyone think that if Brian did stop touring, there would be enough of a market for a second BB band for Al (and Blondie and/or David Marks, because he occasionally has done shows with Al) to continue on with part of Brian’s band and Al’s 2-piece Storytellers Band?

Lineup as such:
Al - vocals, guitars, banjo, double bass
Blondie - vocals, guitars, tambourine?, bass?
David - vocals, guitars (optional, because he hasn’t done many shows outside of 1997-1999 and 2012-2013)
Matt Jardine - vocals, percussion, guitar
Jeff Alan Ross - backing vocals, keyboards (optional, probably too many people already)
Billy Hinsche - vocals, keyboards, vibes, guitars
Darian - vocals, keyboards, vibes, tannerin (assuming it’s owned by Brian and not Probyn, and could be loaned), percussion
Ed Carter or Mike D’Amico - bass
Bobby Figueroa or Mike D’Amico - drums
Paul von Mertens - saxophones, flutes, harmonicas

I would go to this show. I saw Al live earlier this year, and it was great. I'm going to an M+B show later this month. I haven't gone to a Brian Wilson show since 2016, and after hearing clips of Brian singing live over the last three years, I think it would take a last tour announcement for me to go back.

Agreed. Unfortunately I missed Al this year (I was in Nashville when he came fairly close to me). I’ve seen M&B in 2015 and I will again and I will again in a week or so. I’ve seen Brian, Al, and Blondie in 2017 (Al was great, disappointed with Brian because the most recent performances I had heard were from C50, and happy with Blondie’s singing but the solos were too long for me — but it did help me get introduced to Wild Honey and Feel Flows)

I don’t know what I’ll do for a Brian show. I think it’d have to be extremely close for me to go again...I considered going to a rescheduled PS date which will be next year but decided against it because of the fairly long drive...that being said, I would love to see the new Something Great from 68 show. Maybe I can catch a train to NYC to see the Beacon show.

Does anyone think that if Brian did stop touring, there would be enough of a market for a second BB band for Al (and Blondie and/or David Marks, because he occasionally has done shows with Al) to continue on with part of Brian’s band and Al’s 2-piece Storytellers Band?

Lineup as such:
Al - vocals, guitars, banjo, double bass
Blondie - vocals, guitars, tambourine?, bass?
David - vocals, guitars (optional, because he hasn’t done many shows outside of 1997-1999 and 2012-2013)
Matt Jardine - vocals, percussion, guitar
Jeff Alan Ross - backing vocals, keyboards (optional, probably too many people already)
Billy Hinsche - vocals, keyboards, vibes, guitars
Darian - vocals, keyboards, vibes, tannerin (assuming it’s owned by Brian and not Probyn, and could be loaned), percussion
Ed Carter or Mike D’Amico - bass
Bobby Figueroa or Mike D’Amico - drums
Paul von Mertens - saxophones, flutes, harmonicas

I saw someone on here saying he produced Getcha Back...but i thought he just co-wrote it and Levine produced the whole album? Did he actually produce it or did someone just mis-speak on here? Wikipedia says Levine produced the song...could be wrong tho

I think they were arguing that he co-produced the song because of the way he helped with the vocals and getting the falsetto part out of Brian, etc.

[KTSA]

Anyways, anybody in the know *cough* c-man *cough* aware of whether Brian was heavily involved in this one or not? I would be surprised to learn if he wasn't. Actually in general I kinda wonder about Brian's participation on KTSA. He's obviously much more audible then he was on L.A. (Light Album) but I wonder if he was involved much instrumentally or vocally especially on the songs he didn't write.

Yes, and yes.
If it was Brian's idea to record a cover, then he was heavily involved instrumentally and vocally, and probably arrangement-wise: besides "Da Do Ron Ron", examples from those sessions are "School Days", "Little Girl", "Jamaica Farewell", "Stranded In The Jungle" (Brian actually produced the basic tracks for those four, under Bruce's "supervision", a few months before the bulk of the sessions started), "Johnny B. Goode", and "Smokey Places". Two that he apparently WASN'T involved with (at least instrumentally) were "I'll Always Love You" and the Bruce-driven re-recording of "Johnny B. Goode" two weeks after the Brian-driven original.

Holy sh!t! There were two versions of Johnny B. Goode? I want to hear both of them. One of those had Dennis on drums and was probably the last time Dennis played on a Beach Boys session. I think his other contribution was some percussion on Endless Harmony.
Do you know who played on the two JBG's, c-man? And in case you've heard them, could you describe what they sound like?

Johnny # 1:
Brian, Bruce, Mike Meros (keyboards), Carl (guitar), Dennis (drums), Gary Mallaber (drums), Bill House (guitar), Jerry Scheff (bass)

Johnny # 2:
John Hobbs (keyboards), Steve Ross (guitars), Bill House (guitar), Bryan Garofalo (bass), Ricky Fataar (drums)

I have not heard either version.

Thank you! Oh man, I would love to hear Carl play with Jerry Scheff!

Agreed.

Can't blame him for not coming up with anything useful for "Goin' to the beach". What a lousy song.

I know I should hate it but I like it better than most of Mike’s other stuff I’ve heard post-Holland.

How many sessions did Ricky play on after departing in 1974? Or was that a one off?

Wiki, which I know we all know is far from perfect, credits Fataar as playing drums on the title track "Keepin' the Summer Alive" and then also "Sunshine." Its citation loops back to a thread on this board, but I can't find the specific citation for those tracks, only a mention that Fataar is on several KTSA tracks.

I have been the Wiki editor in question...I’ve connected a lot of threads on this board to various topics and I remember there being some specific citation but maybe I forgot to mention it/misplaced the link.

There’s a song from Toy Story that I’ve never been able to find the name of that reminds me of the verses from H&V and maybe if there was a little Billy Joel mixed into it equals this Randy Newman song.

Cool idea for a topic, B.E.. The one that immediately springs to my mind is Culture Club's "Karma Chameleon". The first three notes sound pretty well identical in tempo, pitch and timbre to the first three notes of "You're So Good To Me" but after that the two songs don't sound like each other at all!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmcA9LIIXWw

Ah, I hear it!

there's a song on the lennon "double fantasy" album... one part of it sounds like "don't worry baby" 's verse "but she looks in my eyes and makes me realise"     don't remember the title...

Yeah, a lot of people seem to make this connection. It's "but when I see you darling, it's like we both are" in "(Just Like) Starting Over".

Funny, as much as I love Just Like Starting Over and Don’t Worry Baby, I don’t think I’ve ever heard it like that, not that I, denying it exists, I’ve just never heard the connection.

Check out Panic's 2008 album "Pretty. Odd."

It's their tribute to 60's pop and psych music, Beatles and Beach Boys references everywhere. "Behind The Sea" is a personal favorite.

That’s the only album of theirs that I can listen to. I may be a millennial, but after that album, I only like the songs “Death of a Bachelor” and “Impossible Year” because of the Sinatra style.

Does anyone (C-man) have any idea who played on Rock and Roll to the Rescue? Is there any possible chance that Carl plays the acoustic? Or maybe Brian on keys because he was supposedly an uncredited (co-)producer?

I’m hoping no one brings up Goin’ To The Beach. I do love the song, as sad as that sounds, and Mike may have had the idea and possibly the melody, but who added chords and backing vocal arrangements and then went uncredited? Brian.

That was him? I thought it was proven to be false.

^

I remember C-man said it was Tommy Morgan uncredited. I can post the link if anyone wants.

EDIT: Never mind; he beat me to it 

Let’s see what I can remember, mostly from reading C-man’s posts:

Guitar:
The Survivors – After the Game
Break Away (according to Desper?)
Possibly one version of H&V or something (strumming)

Drums:
Surfin’ (snare drum)
Funky Pretty
You’ve Lost That Lovin’ Feelin (?)
all of Love You except Mona, I Wanna Pick You Up, Honkin’ Down the Highway, and The Night Was So Young (Dennis), Good Time (Dennis Dragon), and Ding Dang (Ricky Fataar?)

Marimba:
All Summer Long

They continued to attract a large audience because of their live shows, not because of albums like Love You and 15 Big Ones. Love you was akin to Smiley Smile in that it did not represent what the BB's were capable of doing. The label knew that and couldn't blame them for not backing it with a big money promo. Honkin' and Solar System were not marketable in the least. The ball was dropped by no one but themselves.

 


  15 BIG ONES made the Top 10. LOVE YOU was released less than a year later. Let's say "Honkin' Down the Highway" was released a week or two in front of LOVE YOU...no way it doesn't chart. Call me crazy, but that record could have been a minor hit, at least.

 

Despite your invitation to call you crazy, HDTH was not ever going to be a anything close to a hit. There was nothing on that album that was going to be considered "single" material. The mere fact that the record got little or no airplay is proof of that. The only song worth having from LY is TNWSY and man, that's about it. As was said above, it was a cult release for diehards only. I'm a die hard and I disliked it immensley.

... and then there's me who loved LY it so much I played it at least once a day for two years. I still to this day consider it to be Brian Wilson's first solo album. The Moog sound blew me away but I loved the songs too.

I also love Love You...I think it’s one of the craziest things I’ve ever heard, but a few songs are genius. I think HDTH and Roller Skating Child were the only commercial or quasi-commercial songs. I think HTDH’s lyrics, not the synths, would have turned listeners off. The question is would Roller Skating Child need remixing, re-recording along the lines of the live versions, or just a release of the live version to be a minor hit single?

The problems with living on the East Coast. I can’t believe I’ll miss this.

I don’t have anything concrete, sorry. I can just offer what I’ve read here in other threads. Recorded sometime between March and November 1973 (and I’m guessing with overdubs in 1976/77 for release). Supposedly has more musicians than the rest of the album. Possibly Ricky on drums. Let’s see if c-man or anyone else can help. 

I've never known Brian to play anything other than bass guitar or piano/keyboards during a concert.

In the early days, when it was just the five of them, didn't Brian play drums when the hard-working drummer came up to sing The Wanderer?

Yes and Jon Stebbins has said that when Brian wasn’t there, David Marks played drums.

I suppose keeping the percussion set up on stage even when Bobby was drumming full-time could well be explained by someone coming up to add the tympani on WIBN. But it sounds like Tony Leo (nor Matt Jardine) were actual full-time backup percussionists. So it's sounding like during that year-ish gap between May 1979 and June 1980, Bobby didn't have a regular percussionist backing him (in the same fashion that Bobby was percussionist under Dennis).

Is it possible Tony Leo and/or Matt Jardine (because I don’t know when Matt began working on the road with the BBs) played for the entire show?

No. Not the Dennis-less shows I saw in '79 and '82, and not according to an ESQ interview with Matt. There are also lots of still photos and a bit of video from those days, all depicting Bobby or Mike K. on the drums with no auxiliary percussionist. They probably kept the tympani onstage expressly for the ending of "WIBN" (although there's also a 1980 stage shot of Brian playing it). Maybe they kept the rest of the percussion rig onstage in case Dennis happened to show up, sober enough to play the gig, in which case Bobby or Mike K. would move over for him.

I stand corrected. 

I really want to see that picture of Brian playing the tympani. 

Me too!

I suppose keeping the percussion set up on stage even when Bobby was drumming full-time could well be explained by someone coming up to add the tympani on WIBN. But it sounds like Tony Leo (nor Matt Jardine) were actual full-time backup percussionists. So it's sounding like during that year-ish gap between May 1979 and June 1980, Bobby didn't have a regular percussionist backing him (in the same fashion that Bobby was percussionist under Dennis).

Is it possible Tony Leo and/or Matt Jardine (because I don’t know when Matt began working on the road with the BBs) played for the entire show?

I highly, highly doubt they did any gigs in '81-'82 without a percussionist/backup drummer...in fact, probably not since the early '70s. They always did a few songs without Dennis, either because he refused to play them, or because they felt a different skill level was needed for those tunes. At the 7/5/81 Long Beach show, I think there were only two songs performed without Dennis ("Lady Lynda" and "Long Tall Texan"), plus they did one with Dennis on piano ("Help Me, Rhonda"). But even more than that, they would've needed a backup in case Dennis was too blitzed to play - which, even with bodyguards protecting him from himself, still obviously happened fairly often (read Ian's book).

On the other hand, Bruce once told me about how HE had to jump behind the drum kit mid-song at one show in Lake Tahoe, because Karen Lamm was in the audience flipping her middle finger at Dennis, who then abandoned the drums to dive into the audience after her. Surprised that Bobby or Mike K. didn't, but Bruce said he did.

There were definitely a few songs on even the 1980 tour, after Dennis rejoined, that he didn't play, including "Lady Lynda", "Keepin' the Summer Alive", "Cottonfields/Heroes and Villains", and of course "Rhonda" in order to play piano.

Certainly, "KTSA" and probably "Lynda" were songs they needed more elaborate drumming on (especially the former), so that explains those.

Dennis, by 79/80 especially, needed a backup at the ready. I was just curious how quickly Kowalski was brought in once Figueroa was out. It makes sense that it would probably be right away.

A weird side note on the "Dennis's backup" thing I've always been curious about is the band's appearance on "Friday's" in 1980. I believe they taped it in March, while Dennis was still kicked out of the band. But weirdly, they still have Bobby Figueroa's percussion set up even though it wasn't used because Bobby drummed on all three songs. Were they planning at some point for Dennis to make a one-time appearance? It makes even less sense because even if he had been present, he probably wouldn't have drummed on two of the three songs, since they were new album songs. Did the band ever bring on a second percussionist for that year or so between mid-1979 and mid-1980 when Dennis was out and Bobby drummed full time? Did they even have a percussion set-up on stage during that time?

To answer the last part - yes, at least in part...they had the tympani set up for roadie Tony Leo (and later a young Matt Jardine) to run out and pound toward the end of "Wouldn't It Be Nice".

I was going to say I remember c-man talking about Tony Leo playing on WIBN in this time.

Hell yeah!

Agreed!

Historical and audio evidence indicates that SURFIN' SAFARI, SURFIN' USA, SURFER GIRL, WILD HONEY, CARL & THE PASSIONS, HOLLAND, and THE BEACH BOYS LOVE YOU are the most self contained albums in the group's catalog, particularly the first two LPs and LOVE YOU.


 Does it matter when The Beach Boys play or don't play? Has misreported "information" about near total session player dominance during the hit years undermined the band's reputation in certain circles?


 {Props to Jon Stebbins for clarifying this issue to a large extent. In the past, insiders such as David Leaf and general rock critics like Dave Marsh seemed to stress the studio musician theory for almost all of their hit singles in the 60s.}

I think we can probably add Little Deuce Coupe, Shut Down Volume 2, All Summer Long, and/or Beach Boys’ Party to that list.

I think it matters when the band plays on their records and that their reputation has been undermined by this and Mike’s constant power struggle (see the recent 12 Sides of Summer discussion). I think that we cannot completely forget Today, SDSN, and parts of the 68-71 albums because because Brian and Carl (and to a lesser extent everyone except Mike) are all over them. I think 15 Big Ones is a strange case because Dennis and Brian are on most of the album, but not Carl. I think MIU is interesting because Mike doesn’t play anything and Carl and Dennis can’t be on that much of the album, meaning the album is Brian and Al plus the touring band. And I wonder how if KTSA was supposed to bring the band back together, but it has a long list of session musicians, and even Carl isn’t playing on everything (i.e. at least Da Doo Ron Ron). Sorry for this rambling list