The original quote from Mike sums up perfectly the flawed way he looks at things (or perhaps used to look at things). Few can deny that Brian Wilson has something special going on when it comes to music - so already most people are going to put Brian on a pedestal above others (even very accomplished songwriters bow down to Brian’s genius in various ways). Secondly, plenty of people who feel that way also don’t give a hoot about Mike’s personality issues. Mike makes this weird exaggeration that automatically generalizes an entire group of BB fans, probably most of whom just don’t care about these petty Mike vs Brian issues to begin with.

I just find it to be a means of divisiveness that doesn’t need to exist. And while I get that he’s trying to point out just how much people dislike him, you also don’t need Brian Wilson there as a yin to your yang to make your point. As in, if I were to sue my cousin and his family over a harmless picture on a freebie CD, you wouldn’t need to know the stature of my cousin to know that I’m a fairly petty person. If I were to host a benefit dinner that was raising money to support the killing of endangered species, you wouldn’t need to know my cousin in order to know that I may not have the most solid moral foundation. If I were to invite someone on a plane ride and then at the end of the trip make him pay for the fuel, you wouldn’t need to know my cousin in order to know that I’m not that nice of a person. Etc etc.

That quote from Mike is cute for a book or the papers, but it doesn’t at all represent the reality of the way some people view Mike Love…the strict correlation between being in awe of Brian’s talent/music and how one feels about Mike Love just doesn’t exist. Hopefully he (or his apologists) doesn’t actually think this is true.

Thanks, Rocker!

Very cool they’re focusing heavily on their 70s output. Al even mentions how ‘All This Is That’ is remixed for the upcoming set…which (to me) implies that all the album songs will be remixed for the new set (considering All This Is That isn’t a remix on SoS, but it is on the upcoming set). Honestly if these songs are remixed the way Marcella/YNAMOH are on the SoS set I’ll be a very happy guy. I think the new Marcella mix is hands-down a better sounding mix.

Mike somehow manages to cram 6 references of how he wrote the lyrics to GV into a 6 sentence paragraph. The man is truly gifted with words.

Very glad Al gave the California Saga some love - a very underrated segment of their career that I hope more casual fans will come to appreciate!

Agreed about Amazon. Apple Music is usually my go-to. And it's basically just because I can easily upload any albums that aren't available on Apple Music (mostly Beach Boys bootlegs, and other rarity items from artists) and have them available on all my Apple devices. Spotify is hands-down the best for discovering new music, Apple Music is the best streaming service for music library management, imo.

But that being said, even if things are properly labeled, depending on the codec, depending on the means of listening, depending on the EQ settings, any kind of music is going to sound different from service to service. That's just the nature of having many different ways to listen to music these days. And sadly sometimes it also means streaming services will get lazy and mis-label things (very annoying when that happens, though it's been kinda rare for me to encounter that recently).

@Billy, that sucks. I don’t know the full context, but VDPs has definitely been more edgy in recent years. Perhaps like the rest of us, the internet has made him more cynical.

Honestly, even with his recent idiosyncrasies, I don’t mind the guy. He has always followed the beat of his own drum, which is very admirable. His Song Cycle album is fascinating to hear through the lens of its inspiration from the Smile Sessions. I love the Esso Steel Trinidad Band album (and accompanying documentary). And Discover America will always be one of my favorite albums from the 70s.

I do hope I didn’t come off too harshly and my reasoning came across fine.

And apparently according to the usual suspects I ripped him a new one, even though most of it wasn’t even directed to him (or at EH either, which again I said). But hey since this is being monitored, maybe someone can take the initiative and answer the question….

When one implies or straight up says that Brian is being controlled to the point he is forced to tour at 80 years old, that's gonna piss some people off. And I get that Awesoman explained his comment (even though I still just don't agree with his point of view), but you can't make a blanket statement that implies a lot of awful sh*t about the loving people surrounding Brian and expect a courteous reply. So if it's "rough stuff", perhaps more of that loving attitude they showed Howie Edelson should be shared here.

This forum has dealt with these inane conspiracy theories for a stupid long time, so it gets tiresome when people say things that imply (or straight up align with the idea) that Brian has no free will to retire.

Well I put it here because the post originated there. This isn’t really about an SS vs EH, more about a potential Zoom call with the team that gave us this great set.

And I put it in this thread so people who don’t want to read about the EH forum don’t have to click on the thread.

This does have to do with the new SoS comp, but it also veers into slightly off-topic territory. This was the first thread I found relating to the EH forum here so I thought it was more appropriate to put here rather than gum up the SoS thread.

Per the EH forum, David Beard may attempt to set up a Zoom call for fans to discuss the SoS comp, and he’s going to invite the team (Mark, Alan, Howie, perhaps others) for them to hear from the fans. Just wanted to let people here know in case there was interest.

There have been some complaints about the project, but everyone has been mature and respectful to all who had a hand in the making of the set, so I can’t see any problematic issues arising with this. Given that Howie’s PR outreach with the podcast interview seemed to resonate well with fans, I think this Zoom call could be another great way for fans to show their respect to the guy. And since Mark’s recent mixes have been nothing but praised by certain fans, this just gives another way for those fans to express their appreciation of his efforts. Sounds like a real nice way for this wonderful fanbase to interact with a team they clearly respect.

Props to David Beard for taking the lead on this, thankfully someone like him is there with absolutely no agenda and just wants us all to come together for the sake of the music. Really awesome. Thanks David for being awesome like that.

PS, I really hope there is some moderation regarding foul language. I have a pet goldfish who has never heard a swear word in his life and I’d hate for him to be exposed to foul language and traumatize him. I also don’t allow him to glance at my MOJO mags with interviews with Mike Love because of this very reason. Thanks.

VDP's bitterness has turned me off his music quite a bit in recent years, apart from the Smile stuff and Orange Crate Art - too bad really.

Not trying to hijack Brian’s birthday thread, but prior to my own negative experience with VDP, I already wasn’t really a fan aside from those two projects and the melody of the song later remade for TLOS

Billy, if you don’t mind my asking, what was your negative experience with VDP?

Great posts, Join the Human Race and Tony S.

I saw Brian in 2020 right before the pandemic shut everything down. Brian looks older every time I see him, he doesn’t hit every note perfectly. But I remember him being upbeat, and of course his band was just stellar. The way I see it: I don’t go to see Brian at his peak. I go because:

- Brian still gives us a little magic in his performances - may not be every song, it may be only one song, but it’s worth it.
- because I don’t know if I’ll get another chance to see him. Something I’ve learned in life: it is hard to watch people decline as they get older, but those moments you spend with them in those years are moments you will cherish and are glad you had.
- because I’m in the same room as my musical hero. To me, it’s like being in the same room as Beethoven.
- because it is the most joyous thing to be apart of the standing ovation after GOK ends.
- because I get to see some of the most talented musicians/bands work their magic. I think all of us musicians who ever dreamed of making it big in a band see Darian as an absolute hero, and we’re all jealous of the talent he and his bandmates have.

I totally understand if people think seeing Brian is too depressing. So I’d never try to convince anyone they need to keep going to his shows. But those are just some of the reasons why I continue to go see him.

If I thought for one second that Brian was intentionally or unintentionally being pushed too far by his management/handlers/wife/band/etc I wouldn’t support his touring. But I think Brian is just a complicated guy who seems to like being on the road these days for whatever reason. He may seem sad at times, or detached, but the guy has schizo-affective disorder and a slew of other mental health issues - I can’t imagine what he goes through internally at times. But being surrounded by friends, being surrounded by music is probably better therapy than being parked in front of a TV alone at home. For that reason alone I’ll keep supporting the guy when I can.

I have faith that if Brian were being pushed in a direction that was impacting his overall happiness and health, that the good people who have been around Brian for the last 20+ years would have the human decency to stand up for him (if Brian really was in a situation that he could not have the final say in)...including his daughters and close friends.

You simply wrote "if his handlers allowed him to retire".

No other entertainer ever (outside of some Landy-esque sociopathic control) has handlers who wouldn't allow them to retire. I'm merely replying to what you said. Your usage of the term "handler" became derogatory when you claimed that they are impeding his ability to make a very important life choice. Again, if you can't see this, so be it.

And some comments on social media doesn't prove anything. It is ONE moment/snapshot from Brian's birthday - talk about reading too deeply into things. Goodness gracious.

I'm not reading into anything deeply. You straight up claimed that Brian has handlers that don't allow him to do a certain thing (retire)....that just flat out implies certain things. If you can't see that then so be it.

And as for forum "rivalry", that implies some competition or superiority. I am not claiming one thing or another about us winning or dominating anything, just stating a fact that a lot of prominent posters there have claimed Melinda is controlling, have claimed that Brian is controlled by handlers, etc, and that such talk would seem to belong there since many* (edited out "most" as I have no idea how many people there actually believe this nonsense) people there agree with this claim of Brian not being able to retire due to his "handlers".

In all honesty if his handlers allowed him to retire

You realize everything that this implies? It implies that Brian isn't allowed to make big decisions in his life. It implies that if Brian is being forced against his will that every person in Brian's life (from Darian, to Al, to Brian's own children and good long-time friends, to his wife) don't stand up and speak out on his behalf...that they are ignoring what seems to be obvious to armchair quarterbacks watching YouTube clips, but they themselves are either clueless, or in on it, or are spineless.

So yeah, if I sound pissed I'm just tired of reading these claims that imply a lot of awful things about the great people in Brian's life.

If Brian didn't want to do any of this he would refuse to get out of bed. He would tell his doctors. He would tell his friends. But guess what, his friends all say he wants to be out on the road. But yet for some reason people on the internet don't believe that and keep fueling these silly theories that Brian has no control over his own life.

As for the ridiculousness of the board feuds....most of the people who claim that Brian is controlled, most of the people with an ax to grind with Melinda are on that forum, most people with a history of talking sh*t about Melinda or Brian's life are on that forum. Which is why I say that this sh*t belongs there. Has nothing to do with forum "rivalry".

[I'd rather see him enjoying a nice steak every week while watching a 24-hr "Norbit" channel]

Al Jardine shared video his wife took of the band and crowd wishing him a happy birthday and offering him a cake.  Brian looked like he had no clue where he was.  It was hard enough watching him get to his piano using a walker but all reports of the tour I've read so far suggest the man's pretty checked out at this point. In all honesty if his handlers allowed him to retire I'd rather see him enjoying a nice steak every week while watching a 24-hr "Norbit" channel.  No idea what exactly Brian wants himself but I think the guy has given us enough of his time.

Funny you say “I’d rather see him do this and this”….in merely one sentence you go from complaining that Brian is controlled to stating your wishes about what you’d like to see him doing. I hope you can see the irony.

Ever think that Brian may not want to sit his ass in front of a TV all day these days? Ever think that maybe, just maybe, he isn’t controlled and he just wants to be active and surrounded by his music loving friends? I’m sure all of us have witnessed elderly people having to give something up - be it driving, woodworking, etc. It really sucks to witness that. Brian isn’t hurting anyone here, he’s not a danger to himself or to others by singing his songs. If Brian didn’t want to do it he would be sitting at home right now.

Take the “handlers” sh*t to the EH dumpster where it belongs.

Don, post of the year. Well said, indeed.

Also want to clarify when I say "sonically preferable" - I personally prefer mono in many circumstances. I prefer some remixes over originals. I prefer some original stereo over the rest. But it doesn't matter if I like it for it's artistic merit or if it is sonically better (subjectively, to my ears). What matters is the people who are being marketed to. And I'm not referring to the 20 year olds on forums (or YouTube comment sections) who 100% prefer the original mono mixes. I'm talking about the 20 year olds who aren't fans yet.

Those fans may not know the history behind the old mixes. They may not understand the concept of mono. They may even prefer the mono sound. But those in charge of these releases (be they those on the committee putting these sets together or the record execs green-lighting the project) know that currently remixes are selling (see the Beatles mixes that hit the billboard charts). Thus, this is about what is potentially sonically preferable to those 20 year olds that this is being marketed towards.

It is also for those of us willing to explore something new, for the sake of hearing something a little differently than we're used to...Us fans who probably don't want to buy new sets with the same remasters for the umpteenth time, but want to be surprised by something new found in the mix.

And overall, I imagine this is about an entity that has to make money in order to continue to release rarity sets.

PS I presume both links refer to the same video? I couldn't get the second one, but at any rate... there can't be a version that touches this one (except some comedy one by members of the Muppets, or something...)

No, they are different videos. The second one features Brian's friends and collaborators.

Thanks for clarifying that! I had assumed the Vimeo link was the same video.

So awesome to see those familiar faces wish Brian a happy birthday. Really glad to see Fred Vail was a part of this too. I hope Brian is having a great great day!

Besides, you ignored my point that the apparent intention is to make The Beach Boys’ original recordings more commercial for today’s audiences? As if this is preferable to presenting their historically important  and artistically relevant original recordings (yes, recordings).

The bg vocals on the original stereo 'Don't Worry Baby' are panned far right, the lead vocal is panned far left. I do not see how such a mix would be sonically preferable in an age where headphones with good stereo quality are a norm in society, 5.1 systems are more and more common in homes, and basically your average home stereo is a bit more complex than it was in 1964. My critique of the mix is not me sh*tting on Chuck Britz, it is me just stating the obvious. Things were mixed differently back then for the technology of their time.

Nowadays we have headphones that can simulate 5.1 3D surround. And as I said in a previous post, such technology is dominating the headphone market right now (and will continue to do so).

The Beatles' Abbey Road was remixed and it hit #3 on the billboard charts. That is one of many successful examples of taking a vintage album and remixing it. Thus I think the industry realizes the money-making potential with remixing songs from classic artists. If an artist makes more money there is more of a chance of future releases (which is clearly what the goal is for The Beach Boys). I highly doubt the Beatles original mono/stereo work will be forgotten to the winds of time thanks to the new remixes. Instead, it's just a way to market old music (not meaning to offend when I call it "old", it is just a fact) to a new generation. It's not meant to replace. It is meant to compliment. It is meant to draw in new fans who are used to modern songs being very complex in the mix. It's the same way with The Beach Boys.

Anyways, this is just proving my point about the nitpicking. If it's not the treble making these tracks supposedly completely unlistenable it is the new mixes that are sacrilege to the memory of Carl and Dennis, if it's not Howie being "brash" and "arrogant" it is that the original mono and stereo should be the only way these tracks are presented to the public. Next we're gonna hear whining about how the original SoS album cover was photoshopped to hell and how it's tarnishing the history of the discography.

It's so tiresome to read all the nitpicking negativity. It is why I've become such a pessimistic prick on this forum. Brian records anything genuine and it's always torn apart by "fans". Mark and Alan create a cool new remix that shows us more of what's in the mix and they're flayed alive. Howie does a podcast interview and he's still be ripped apart on EH.

"Do me a favor: please keep writing all your wonderful music. I'll be listening." - Graham Nash. Could not agree more!

Al's comment made me laugh out loud haha.

All of these comments made me smile so much, but I gotta admit that I teared up when Jeff Bridges came on - him saying "it's going so damn fast." - ain't that the truth. The Dude abides, and so does Brian.

Thanks so much for posting that, STE.

Happy birthday, Brian. I hope wherever you are that you’re enjoying life to the fullest.

Has no one noticed that the Beatles are also remixing their records? Even classics like Abbey Road that are about as perfectly mixed as makes no difference? (Many Beatles fans loathe them, too.) I’m not saying it’s right or wrong. But clearly there’s some thought in the industry that remastering isn’t enough — classic bands need to have their classic tracks mixed anew and with an ear toward current tastes.

As stated repeatedly on this thread, these mixes are not replacing those on the classic albums, which are widely available and simple to find. They are clearly labeled and dated alternates. If we want this music to live, it can’t sit on a shelf. It has to live in the world of earbuds and streaming, of loudness wars and Bluetooth, of YouTube clips and Spotify playlists.

And my God I’d rather Mark and Howie and Alan do this than Mike Love and LoCash…

Exactly. Sonic technology/listening is always evolving, hence no modern studio mixes in mono anymore. I’m just glad the people in charge of The Beach Boys music realize this as well, otherwise we wouldn’t have the absolutely amazing stereo mix of Pet Sounds that we have today.

Also want to add, I love The Beach Boys in mono. I think Pet Sounds sounds utterly amazing in mono. But I also feel the same way about the stereo. And I also realize that selling comps in mono or trying to promote mono or the same remasters that have been available for 20+ years to a wider new generation just ain’t gonna fly in 2022 and beyond. Especially if the team is trying to make money making releases that will help propel traction for more rarity releases in the future.

Sure it would fly. Earbuds and iPhone speakers like mono mixes just fine if not more.

Might be slightly off-topic, but this is a great point I feel a lot of people, not just listeners but sound engineers and producers as well are forgetting a lot of times. The "youngsters" don't listen to music with a HI-FI stereo or 5.1 system. They, me included for 90 % times, listen to sounds out of their phone speaker or a bluetooth speaker, which basicly is almost equivalent to an old AM or FM radio. Earbuds, same thing, stereo won't make a difference. Mostly people hear it in MONO anyway, even if they don't realize that.

I don’t personally know the statistics about kids usage of Bluetooth/phone speakers vs headphones, but I’d imagine a lot of kids riding a bus to school, riding in the car with their parents on road trips, walking to school, etc, are listening on headphones. Yes I imagine most, if not all, use their iPhone or Bluetooth speakers as well depending on the situation. Either way, stereo matters for modern listeners, otherwise studios wouldn’t waste their time mixing tracks in stereo/Atmos these days.

Secondly, how does stereo not make a difference with earbuds? They are literally a means to hear left/right. And all of Apple’s (who has almost a 50% share of the headphone market in the US) latest headphone releases support Dolby Atmos and head tracking for an immersive stereo experience. I’m pretty sure nearly every top-40 song these days is mixed for this technology. You don’t need a hi-fi or 5.1 system to listen to music in immersive stereo these days.

“Old mono mixes” yes, something that was made 50+ years ago isn’t young.

“Crude stereo separation”… have you heard some of the plethora different versions of any of those early beach boys songs in stereo? Where the lead or BG vocals are panned hard right and the instrumentals hard left, I would call that crude in an age of 3D immersive stereo. Also Brian is literally deaf in one ear making it impossible for him to make a proper stereo version. Even Brian himself has said it sucks he can’t hear in stereo. So why anyone would even think of those early stereo mixes as pure gold is ridiculous to me…

“Overall dense mixes” see above.

“Less appealing” - I stand by the idea that mono mixes made specifically for AM mono radio sets aren’t that appealing in an era where Dolby surround, immersive headphones, hell the most popular Bluetooth headphones currently support this technology, are all the rage. So yes, I doubt the youngins today are flocking to the Apple store and buying their AirPods in complete elation to hear mono mixes of Beach Boys songs from 1965. I also feel the same about many of the old stereo mixes where the panning just isn’t made for the modern stereo setup (5.1, Atmos, etc).

Also want to add, I love The Beach Boys in mono. I think Pet Sounds sounds utterly amazing in mono. But I also feel the same way about the stereo. And I also realize that selling comps in mono or trying to promote mono or the same remasters that have been available for 20+ years to a wider new generation just ain’t gonna fly in 2022 and beyond. Especially if the team is trying to make money making releases that will help propel traction for more rarity releases in the future.

Old mono mixes, crudely separated stereo mixes and overly dense mixes make the music less appealing to the widest possible audience.

That simply isn’t true. Those “old mono mixes” are what created the Beach Boys’ success, and allowed it to endure, for  the bulk of their career. Brian’s mono mixes are so superior … they hit harder, they pop and punch, and they are delicate and compelling.

It’s odd to me that you seem to be trash talking Brian’s OG mixes with the argument that newer mixes are more … commercial?

As I’ve noted a few times here in the past, in the mono era, there was no such thing as “the mix” as a stand-alone thing like we know it today. The track was built along the way, and each element was moving toward the “dubdown”, or the ultimate record.

“Trash talking”, by calling them “old” (which they are), and in this day and age mono isn’t going to be a hit with the widest possible audience here in 2022 (gee big surprise!). Brian specifically mixed the tracks to sound amazing for the AM radio mono speakers of his time.

Just the fact you have to outlandishly claim someone is “trash talking” because they’re simply stating facts just shows how ”strong” your argument is.