For those who don't know (I can barely understand it): "Dolby Atmos manipulates sound to make it seem like it’s coming from multiple directions, even without the typical 5.1, 7.1, or 9.1 surround sound setup. It does this with the help of spatial audio software that turns audio into 3D objects that can be precisely “placed” anywhere within a 360-degree virtual bubble."

But what is really cool is this new feature from Apple where if you have newer Apple headphones on and look around the music stays in one place and you can direct your ears to certain parts of the mix. For example: if the the drums are mixed to the right, if you look right the drums are now in the middle of the mix. If you look up the sound is below you. It's like you're in the studio and if you look at a certain instrument, that's the instrument that you are focussing on in the mix (if that makes any sense).

It works without the Dolby Atmos mixing (though I think this type of mixing makes this feature more immersive). But listening to the Pet Sounds stereo version with this feature - it's like you're there in the studio. The Beach Boys' Christmas Album is in Dolby Atmos but I can't really tell a difference in the mix from the stereo mix.

Anyways, I kinda think this is the start of an exciting new era in song mixing, and I really hope that we get some immersive mixes from Mark and Alan over the next few years that take advantage of it. I mean, already the stereo mixes of Beach Boys music sound fantastic with the spacial audio head-tracking. But if they can really get some immersive Dolby Atmos mixes made, that would be stellar.

(From the EH forum)

For the record, for those at Smiley who are reading this, and I know you’re reading this, the mods here did not, and I do repeat *did not* change the title of my At My Piano thread.
I did that.
I originally called it “New Brian Wilson Album (Don’t Get Excited)” because we knew absolutely nothing about it other than we had one song from it that wasn’t what most would have expected from a new BW album.
Once it was clarified that it was an official BW product, and it was his fingers on those keys, and we got more pre-release tracks that actually started to intrigue me, I changed the thread title to the title of the actual album.
The mods do a lot here, some that I agree with, some that I don’t, but… what was the phrase… oh yeah… EH was “the forum that has to literally re-write thread titles because people are THAT hateful of Brian Wilson's modern music.”
No such thing was done by the mods here. Talk about “lying about people.”
Anyway, Smiley’s back, more chaos, you gotta love it

Assuming this is directed at me as I'm the only one who has claimed mods had edited the title...and yes I am clearly reading the EH forum as I am talking about and responding directly to accusations, lies, etc made there.

Once it was clarified that it was an official BW product

It was clearly and obviously a single from the official BW YouTube & streaming accounts from DAY ONE, the original title was up long after this should have been obvious.

and it was his fingers on those keys,

Brian literally plays piano for a living* (edit, I realize he doesn't really play in concert, not the point, he plays piano, writes songs on the piano for a living). See, this is what annoys me about this undertone from a certain cadre that Brian is incapable of doing anything himself without someone else doing it for him. It leads to thoughts like the one above. And I'm NOT blaming the OP for this - as I once had the same thoughts about Brian - I really thought he wasn't producing or doing anything much himself on his records. This was due to a common misconception that gets passed around by a certain circle who congregates now on the EH forum...but they were adamant in passing across these rumors here a decade ago. It led me to distrust a lot of what Brian released for years (though thankfully I no longer hold these views).

I honestly didn't even think of the possibility that the OP changed the title (ignorance on my part), so I'm sorry for the untruth. Thanks for the correction, I do earnestly apologize to you and the EH forum for making that claim...and I won't make it again.

They seem to be really irked that another BB’s forum might exist. We’re talking about one of the most popular bands in history and they’re suppose to be the only folks online who want to discuss them? They want to be this insular little tow-the-line group of fans but can’t handle that the billions of other fans out there might want their own place to talk? Just another element that points out the core issue there.

^this is from a forum that has 16 pages, much of which is full of complaints and jabs, of thread about THIS Beach Boys forum.

I don’t think anyone here cares that other Beach Boys communities exist. My goodness there is a funny one on Reddit (not the main Beach Boys subreddit, but more of a "troll" community) that has me in stitches every time I go there. I think all of us welcome that other communities exist, I think our issue regarding Endless Harmony is COMPLETELY prominent in the 16 pages of vitriol that exist on the EH forum. People there are literally doxing a moderator of ours here. There are pages of jabs at the members here. Gee I wonder why we're annoyed.

And if members of the EH forum want us to live rent-free in their minds, so be it. But what annoys me is that newcomers will come along there and be totally swayed by this garbage. That good people get dragged through the mud because of the distortion of the truth that takes place over there (both regarding the fandom and Beach Boys history itself) - it is pretty awful.

*Edit: want to add that I'm not alluding that this place is perfect either. I myself have been a prick at times (even in my comments above I'm as far from a gleaming beacon of positivity as I can get), and I myself have been banned from other forums for trolling. So I'm not coming at this from some moral high ground. All of us are imperfect, I just wish that more people would do some introspection regarding this - and maybe then 16 pages full of obnoxious attacks on another forum wouldn't exist.

Greatly relieved to have the board back!  I wish folks here and on the other boards would stop the “pissing matches” over “our site is better than their site”. We’re all fans of the same music, let’s move on. 

I’m with you actually. I’m not going to lie and say the pot shots didn’t piss me off just a smidge but it’s small potatoes at the end of the day. Boards back and I’m here to see another day. Already off to a good start

Here is where I disagree. Well, I should say I partially agree with you guys, as these feuds are ridiculous. But the things said on the Endless Harmony (irony at its finest, just looking at their Smiley Smile thread) were not just "potshots" Billy. In the last couple weeks they doxed Guitarfool, they lie about events/people, they were just flat out rude and obnoxious to LePage. Some of the people complaining about being banned have never once said "hey, maybe I shouldn't have spread those rumors" or "maybe I shouldn't have made multiple troll accounts on Smiley" etc. I mean, it's really odd to see some really great people/posters there seem to not mind that any of this vitriol is going on over there.

It's also funny to me that some people there complain ENDLESSLY about those PMs being made public - when NO ONE there cares to delve into the content of those PMs, or if it was cool for someone with a "HISTORIAN" status to be sharing some fairly heinous rumors about the wife/family of Brian Wilson. No one there talks about that - instead they are only pissed that those messages were made public. I guess people there are cool with rumors/gossip being spread like that in private - but what gets me is that they bitch about Guitarfool being a horrendous moderator who has no moral standing, then they themselves throw out the morality book when it comes to someone who is meant to be trusted with FACTS who spreads fake information to new and old fans alike. It's a double standard - it's not surprising, but it's just really weird to see people complaining about a lack of standards here when they clearly have none themselves.

Also odd is this idea that most there who were banned from here didn't deserve their bans. MANY of the people banned there did some rather awful things here that made them deserve to get banned. Both moderators here can attest to that WITH PROOF (as much of the infractions are literally archived here).

And Billy, this is what I have an issue with: the EH forum temporarily became the only substantial Beach Boys forum out there this past month - and in that time we saw lies, names dragged through the mud (including yours Billy), and double-standards. That's why this is nothing that should be brushed off - because if this website goes down again, the only substantial forum left is the one cool with doxing people, lying about people, the forum that has to literally re-write thread titles because people are THAT hateful of Brian Wilson's modern music, etc etc.

I think the one good thing that came out of the Smiley Board being down for a long time: LePage finally set the record straight that "bills/money" have nothing to do with the board going down ever-so-often. So thankfully we'll never have to read AGD or his cronies claiming "ChUcKy DiDn'T pAy ThE bIlLZZ!!!!" ever again...then again, truth doesn't mean much in that circle, so perhaps we will hear the obnoxious line again.

Thanks, Sloop! Yeah I think that’s something that I’ve heard so many times that I’m just used to thinking it. But yeah, I totally get that all the songs were completed (also agree that the music was all Brian’s).

And Starry, no hard feelings from me either. I think I have a knee-jerk reaction to criticism because I’ve heard so much of it through the years. I respect your opinion, and I’m just glad that there are others who share a love for this band and for Brian’s work.

Ok, I was being a bit optimistic, I know. However, I specified no EXTERNAL influences. By "external" I mean those who are usually at odds with Brian's creativity, and I made a rather extensive list of them. But specifically included, as "internal", Darian, the rest of Brian's band, Al and Blondie. People who have repeatedly proved that they are NOT at odd with Brian's creativity. So no vacuum.

I don't think that Darian, the band, Al (at least now) and Blondie would dream of ever pestering Brian to be "commercial". I wish I could say the same of wives, producers, a couple ex-bandmates, and most fans. We owe that "At My Piano" gem to the unexpected intervention of an entity where somebody actually has some grasp of music (Decca).

I was, voluntarily, optimistic. But in any case I'll have always that doubt... what if? You mentioned Love You. I waited for something like that for more than 40 years. And I know Brian would never have completed Love You without Carl. But for that, there would be Darian. "At My Piano" would never have been completed, either, without him. Nor SMiLE.

I don't think for a second that Melinda or Joe Thomas are at odds with Brian's creativity. Melinda has been nothing but supportive of Brian's creativity (and simultaneously also supportive of Brian's drive for success). Joe Thomas, while I don't appreciate his production techniques, has been the only other collaborator, besides Paley, who has gotten Brian to write original material consistently in the last few decades. And while I completely understand any negativity regarding the production on Imagination, it has been stated numerous times by a person who actually knows, that NPP was mostly a Brian Wilson production. So while JT had his wrestler hands on the project, Brian was the main guy in the studio calling the shots. Brian was creatively fueled like a Saturn-V before liftoff for NPP. He was on the phone with Kacey Musgraves talking about lyrics, he was coming up with different ideas, leading the band, coming up with harmonies. Guitarfool has done some great breakdowns of some of the songs on NPP - it is clearly Brian going all-out.

As for the "externals" pestering Brian to "go commercial" - Brian has flat-out stated numerous times in recent years that he wants a #1 hit. So Brian himself knows the importance of going commercial. He's not going to get a #1 if all he does is channel his inner Love You, playing on some fart-synths singing about a Lay-Z-Boy recliner chair. He knows this, which is why he worked with young talent on NPP. If Brian didn't want to do these things he would just refuse to show up. He wouldn't be on the phone with a country artist conversing about lyrics. If Brian didn't want to go commercial he wouldn't have spent hours in a recording studio with Nate Ruess trying to get Nate's lead perfect. And after all of Brian's hard work and time in the studio, what happened? His fans sh*t all over the record. Hell, they lambasted the thing when just 15 seconds of it had been released on Facebook.

I think at some point, after Brian leaves this world for the next, a lot of fans are going to regret spending so much time wishing Brian was someone else (and wishing Brian was recording something else), when they could've just appreciated the gifts he was giving them while he was here. I've said it numerous times before, I don't care if people don't like everything the man does, heck I don't like everything the man has done. But I think fans could give Brian a lot more credit for what he actually does in the studio. And honestly, I think Brian has the best support around him that he could have right now. He's got a loving family, a loving band. I just wish Brian's fanbase were as kind to him as he is to them.

Just throwing this out there, but I don’t think we’ve really ever heard Brian with no external influence* (edit: I want to clarify that of course we have heard completely solo BW at times, but it’s rare, not the most commercial music). The reason he ever skyrocketed up the charts in the first place was because of Dennis’ suggestion of surfing. Brian’s magnum opus was written and recorded with collaborators. Smile was greatly influenced by VDP’s ideas of Americana. I know very little about the creative process that Brian went through with Love You, but I wonder how much he was influenced by any therapy that Landy was performing on Brian at the time…not to mention that the album wouldn’t have been completed without his brother stepping in to finish the job.

Brian’s most successful work has always been done either in tandem with another creative or has been influenced by the ideas of another person. I agree that some of those collaborations have resulted in less than stellar work, but when the bulk of his work (including his most successful work) from 1960-onward has been done with collaborators you see an obvious trend that Brian needs/wants people to work with to share the creative/production process with.

So this idea that if Brian left alone in a vacuum with no wife, no friends, no co-producers, no creatives would equate to Brian reaching his full creative potential is just so odd to me. Mostly because I don’t think that Brian has ever really done this successfully - and I think Brian knows this which is why he has most always opted to work with others when creating music.

Wirestone, do you have any guesses as to why GIOMH isn’t available on streaming services? I have it in my personal collection, but it’s odd that it’s like this Summer In Paradise-type album that is unavailable to people via streaming.

Absolutely, CD. I think the production on Gershwin was the pinnacle of his solo career. I do wish we could hear Darian’s original mix though.

I imagine since this project wasn’t a full stand-alone album that Brian wasn’t too picky about his vocals (or the instrumentals). I think if Brian were doing a full on production (Pleasure Island?) that he would spend a lot more time getting his vocals right.

In this fandom especially...at least a certain sect of people who can't find the good in anything.

I disliked Mike's UTL solo album, but I still tried to find things to enjoy about it (and I did)...Ram Raj still comes to mind as one of those songs I'm glad Mike recorded, and I listen to it every now and then. But when it comes to Brian's music, some people just gotta hate on it...I mean, a mod at the Endless Bitchfest forum had to RENAME the thread dedicated to Brian's solo album because the original name of the thread was a knock at the album. They literally have to moderate/censor the hate that Brian receives over there because there's so much non-stop whining that occurs about Brian's solo career. I mean heck, as Billy mentioned, some guy there was calling for Brian's solo discography to be done away with after Brian's passing like a Nazi book burning. It's so absurd that it was almost troll-level-behavior, but people there hate Brian's music that much so it's honestly not surprising* *yes there are a lot of great people/posters over there, I don't know how they can stand the nauseating waft of lies, annoyance, and constant Brian hate over there.

Meanwhile, I think most fans are realistic about Brian's solo career: it's not perfect, but it has a lot of beautiful gems. I'm just happy that the guy still likes making music - same with Mike. It's great these guys can ignore the BS and perform/record music. I hope I'm that energetic at their ages!

I hope Brian is receiving therapy beyond just putting him in front of a few thousand people applauding him several times a year.

I do believe he has a team of doctors from UCLA who make sure he's got the best treatment for his depression/schizoaffective disorders. I'm betting that a part of that treatment is that Brian doesn't stay shut in all the time, and perhaps for Brian being out on tour gives him distractions from his demons and happiness from the people he brings joy to at concerts.

For me personally, knowing that there are people who really dig what I do, that keeps me going, from not feeling like a useless burden on those who love me, like maybe I do serve a purpose....no amount of money or success in other fields could change that.

And I think many artists feel this way. Look how Brian spiraled out of control when his music started becoming less and less relevant to the culture...He was riding a high of success and then crashed and burned. I don't think it is mentally healthy to get your happiness from things that can fall apart, but I also understand the want to get recognition from the art that you create.

Brian has stated that he wants a number 1 hit - whether or not we feel that is a healthy or even realistic goal, that's just what he wants. And so his fanbase may just want to support this guy (who has a heart of gold and has given us SO much). I don't mean we have to fake liking all the work he puts out, but we also don't need to be dicks every time he releases an album or song. And we certainly don't need to wish the guy would quit and sit his ass in a recliner for the rest of his days in this world.

Is it fair to call for an artist to quit?

- Sure it is fair. But you have to accept that the artist doesn't care about that.

Doesn’t care about the fairness of being called to quit? Or doesn’t care about being called to quit?

Brian has stated numerous times in recent years that his goal when working on a song is to make a #1 hit. That doesn’t sound like someone who doesn’t care about validation. And being asked to quit the one occupation that gives you that validation would be decimating to that person, imo.

The following is a quote from Brian’s autobiography:

There are other voices, too, along with Chuck Berry and Phil Spector and my dad. The other voices are worse. They’re saying horrible things about my music. Your music is no damned good, Brian.

Whether or not Brian wrote/said these exact words, it absolutely is in line with what Brian has said in interviews over the years. If Brian didn’t give a damn about what people thought of his music he wouldn’t care when a voice in his head tells him his music is no damned good. But he does.

And I feel like wishing Brian would quit music (because it’s either embarrassing or not up to par with Pet Sounds), is the ultimate criticism you could lay on an artist (whether or not the person who says it has bad intentions).

I think the one thing this documentary did that was unlike any other BW doc, is that it gave us a much closer/longer glimpse of modern day Brian than we’ve ever seen before. The TLOS and BWPS documentaries show Brian in the studio, but they don’t really show him as a person just traversing his world. This is the only documentary I’ve seen that does that.

So yeah, we get the same redemption story. But this film is unique in that half of it focuses solely on Brian himself…not just studio Brian, but also deli Brian, traffic Brian, etc.. And upon typing that I realize how boring that sounds haha, but it’s just cool to see Brian being a regular person and not just a tragical/mythical figure.

Pretty much couldn’t agree more, phirnis.

One thing I’d like to say about “Legacy” (a word some fans seem to think of as kryptonite haha) is that I don’t see The Beach Boys or Brian Wilson’s legacy of great music ever being ruined. Whatever you want to call it, “legacy” is merely something that someone leaves behind after they are gone. Unfortunately some fans seem to think that the only thing The Beach Boys will ever leave behind is the music on a Greatest Hits compilation. Which is a slap in the face to their entire history. Like it or not, but with the great music comes arguments, a tarmac fight, drug use, Summer in Paradise, redemption, reunions, etc. And that isn’t a bad thing - of course there are some moments that we wish never took place, but that is a part of their history. The Beach Boys will mostly be remembered for their beautiful art, but, like Van Gogh will forever be tethered to a sliced off ear, or Yoko Ono will forever be tethered to the Beatles, The Beach Boys will forever be tethered to some of the not so great things they did. It’s not just music that gets passed down after The Beach Boys are gone - it is the memories too. It’s not a bad thing, it’s just the way things go.

So when Mike does a gig that supports the killing of “trophy” animals, and Brian subsequently disowns his own musical catalogue, some of us fans get annoyed because those things won’t be forgotten. It doesn’t ruin the good music, but it also tethers itself to the band/music because it directly relates to that music. The lawsuits don’t ruin the music, but they are moments that are tethered to that music. And yes, future generations may not even notice those bad moments, but if those people read a book, look at vintage articles, they’ll see these things. The Beach Boys will leave behind amazing music and amazing memories, but they will also leave behind bad music and bad memories - that is their legacy. I think it sucks that they keep doing things that keep giving them negative press, but I know those things won’t at all ruin their vintage music. But they are things that won’t be totally forgotten, either.

Also want to add that my viewpoint on this subject matter has evolved over the years. So I may be contradicting any of my opinions from years past. That’s just the way it goes.

Thanks for your well thought out post, positivemusic.

I will say that of the concerts I've been to in the last five years, only at one have I seen Brian disinterested (Pet Sounds tour). The rest of the concerts he has been engaged with the audience, and seemingly happy to be there (especially the most recent one I went to right before the Covid shutdown). And those positive concerts sounded amazing - people all around us having an awesome time. I was fortunate enough to meet Brian backstage at one concert and he had the biggest smile on his face when he greeted me...He didn't at all seem disinterested to be there. I've seen Brian perform soundchecks where he is totally into directing the band through certain songs - he is in control, and it looks like he loves every minute of it.

I'm not saying he has only good days. As with any job, we all have good and bad days, we go through slumps, we can get depressed, or really happy. Brian is as human as the rest of us. If he goes through a slump I don't think it's fair to say that he should quit his "job". He's just having a slump. If Brian truly didn't want to be there, he wouldn't participate (like the Beck sessions). No one forced Brian to finish the Beck project, it fizzled out on it's own because Brian truly was disinterested in it. I feel like the same thing would happen with Brian on tour. Especially since the man could literally be doing anything else with his time, why would he waste it doing something he didn't want to do?

If people want him to quit because they think he is forced to tour, then I would totally understand that. But then I have to ask the question: what is the motive of those supposedly forcing Brian to tour? Is it money? Because I'm pretty sure the Wilson estate doesn't depend on Brian to tour 40 shows a year to put food on the table. Or does Melinda just want Brian out of the house more often??

Anywho, I'm just rambling. I do appreciate the responses though. I think most fans do generally want what is best for Brian, and we all greatly care about him.

Just my perspective on this, but if the death of old friends is one of the supposed off-limits topics for the band/etc I would think that someone would’ve let Jason Fine know this before getting into a car with Brian for 70 hours. And while the band and other workers may know what subjects are taboo, Brian still does interviews, he sees people at the deli. It’s not like he is completely shut off from the outside world…I mean, I’m sure the guy knows how to use a TV remote and flips through channels, sees the news, etc. As in, it’s impossible to shelter Brian from everything, so why hide things like this from him (when it could possibly be mentally worse for the guy if he is blindsided by bad news).

Death is a part of life, and Brian is no stranger to it. I mean, Nicky Wonder unfortunately passed away and Brian paid homage to him in concert. To me, the simplest explanation is that Brian just forgets things from time to time, and Reiley’s passing is just one of those things.

There would no avoiding the sad death of Nicky W but the news of Jack R is different. He wasn't well known outside BB's circles and was there only for a brief fairly uncommercial period during the bands history. He's unlikely to make mainstream news. The chances of someone saying such things at the deli also seems slim IMO.

1) My point about Nicky Wonder is that Nicky was someone who Brian spent a lot of time with on a very long term basis and Brian didn't mentally break down because of the news - he was able to carry on with life in a normal fashion to the point of being able to pay homage to him in a concert following his death. Thus I doubt that his wife/doctors keep sad news from him because he can obviously handle it...even the news of Reiley...if Fine bringing it up was the first time Brian heard the news, you can see that Brian didn't go into a panic attack, he just seemed saddened by the news like any normal person would be if an old friend died.
2) My point about Brian watching the news wasn't tied in with Reiley but other people who Brian is/was close to who have already or will eventually die (who are more newsworthy - say, if McCartney passed away (yes I know he wasn't close to McCartney, but it would still be sad for Brian to hear, etc). My point is that it is impossible to shelter Brian from sad news 100% of the time.
3) My point about the deli is that Brian goes places, sees people in uncontrollable environments and thus it is possible for him to be blindsided by sad/bad news. Thus I doubt they keep sad news from Brian because there are chances that he will find out about it anyways.

It's very easy break down all that to make my point but we are not gonna agree so I'll leave it.

I mean, I don't mind having a discussion. And I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying what seems the most logical to me.

I do understand your point of view and it is very well possible that they shelter Brian from bad news. I guess what I'm saying is that it would be kinda irrational (on their part) if that is the case considering what happened with Jason Fine and Brian in the car...if they do shelter him I think that is worse than just telling him bad news in a controlled environment (than Brian being blindsided by it in an uncontrolled environment). That's all.

Just my perspective on this, but if the death of old friends is one of the supposed off-limits topics for the band/etc I would think that someone would’ve let Jason Fine know this before getting into a car with Brian for 70 hours. And while the band and other workers may know what subjects are taboo, Brian still does interviews, he sees people at the deli. It’s not like he is completely shut off from the outside world…I mean, I’m sure the guy knows how to use a TV remote and flips through channels, sees the news, etc. As in, it’s impossible to shelter Brian from everything, so why hide things like this from him (when it could possibly be mentally worse for the guy if he is blindsided by bad news).

Death is a part of life, and Brian is no stranger to it. I mean, Nicky Wonder unfortunately passed away and Brian paid homage to him in concert. To me, the simplest explanation is that Brian just forgets things from time to time, and Reiley’s passing is just one of those things.

There would no avoiding the sad death of Nicky W but the news of Jack R is different. He wasn't well known outside BB's circles and was there only for a brief fairly uncommercial period during the bands history. He's unlikely to make mainstream news. The chances of someone saying such things at the deli also seems slim IMO.

1) My point about Nicky Wonder is that Nicky was someone who Brian spent a lot of time with on a very long term basis and Brian didn't mentally break down because of the news - he was able to carry on with life in a normal fashion to the point of being able to pay homage to him in a concert following his death. Thus I doubt that his wife/doctors keep sad news from him because he can obviously handle it...even the news of Reiley...if Fine bringing it up was the first time Brian heard the news, you can see that Brian didn't go into a panic attack, he just seemed saddened by the news like any normal person would be if an old friend died.
2) My point about Brian watching the news wasn't tied in with Reiley but other people who Brian is/was close to who have already or will eventually die (who are more newsworthy - say, if McCartney passed away (yes I know he wasn't close to McCartney, but it would still be sad for Brian to hear, etc). My point is that it is impossible to shelter Brian from sad news 100% of the time.
3) My point about the deli is that Brian goes places, sees people in uncontrollable environments and thus it is possible for him to be blindsided by sad/bad news. Thus I doubt they keep sad news from Brian because there are chances that he will find out about it anyways.

Just my perspective on this, but if the death of old friends is one of the supposed off-limits topics for the band/etc I would think that someone would’ve let Jason Fine know this before getting into a car with Brian for 70 hours. And while the band and other workers may know what subjects are taboo, Brian still does interviews, he sees people at the deli. It’s not like he is completely shut off from the outside world…I mean, I’m sure the guy knows how to use a TV remote and flips through channels, sees the news, etc. As in, it’s impossible to shelter Brian from everything, so why hide things like this from him (when it could possibly be mentally worse for the guy if he is blindsided by bad news).

Death is a part of life, and Brian is no stranger to it. I mean, Nicky Wonder unfortunately passed away and Brian paid homage to him in concert. To me, the simplest explanation is that Brian just forgets things from time to time, and Reiley’s passing is just one of those things.

Yeah I hear ya. It's one reason that I will never join that forum....wayyyyyy too much history of bullshit from a cadre of people there. So yeah, I agree that "fans" like that are...unique...to put it kindly.

I do think that others (there and here) don't mean harm by their calls for Brian to retire. But I wish those people would put themselves in Brian's shoes - imagine someone forcing (or even just calling for) you to retire from something you love doing - that is a cruel thing to do, especially when you're not harming anyone by trying to record some songs.

Anybody calling for Brian to quit is not a real fan. Sorry, but it has to be said.

While I understand your sentiments, I think some people who make this wish/request (for Brian to quit) do so out of love for Brian. The post that sparked this topic talked about Brian possibly embarrassing himself by releasing any more underwhelming tunes (I am paraphrasing here, not the OPs actual words). And like Bossaroo said above, "for many years, fans have seemed unsure just how much Brian wanted to be out on tour and worried that he's been forced into it somehow"...and given the amount of disinformation plastered on these forums (and PMs) it doesn't surprise me that people would want Brian to quit for his own mental well being. So in that regard I can see why people would want Brian to take a break and bow out, as he has a lifetime of achievement under his belt and doesn't need to prove anything else - But I think that this outlook completely overlooks how the creative mind works.

Bossaroo is on point with this: "I think time has shown that Brian does indeed enjoy performing his music to appreciative audiences, he enjoys being active, and he enjoys the camaraderie his band provides."

And I really wish people would take that to heart. And, like Bossaroo, I have called for Mike himself to hang it up before...which wasn't fair of me to do so. In the last few years I have openly stated that I am happy that Mike likes to record, and I'm also happy that he and his band share some good tunes with people when he does concerts. I do wish that he did it under his own name, but that's my minuscule opinion that doesn't need to be elaborated on.

Basically, I think sometimes us fans can have weird opinions, but in the end, if Mike and Brian are happy and recording/performing wholesome tunes to spread some joy in the world, then nothing should stop them from doing that. Especially if most people are happy with the offerings at the end of the day, and since both Brian Wilson and the touring Beach Boys are still touring, obviously the coffers say that people still want to see these guys perform.

Yeah that could be the case. But I'd also think that since Brian is around a lot of people from time to time (recording studios, backstage at concerts, interviews) that his wife/management would tell him this stuff anyways because eventually he's probably going to hear the news. If he isn't told about emotionally troubling news, then he could potentially be blindsided with that news...if that's what happened with the Reiley information from Jason Fine on camera, that really isn't a great way to handle that type of stuff.

As a professional artist, as long as there are people that support your art financially by paying to hear your music or see your concerts, then I don't see why any artist should quit their chosen vocation and means of income unless they want to. As an amateur or hobbyist, as long as making your art gives you joy, then anything else should be irrelevant. To answer the original question, no, it's not fair or even anyone's business to call for an artist to quit making their art, but people can make their opinion heard with their wallets.

Agreed. I think voting with one's wallet is completely fair - as well as telling your opinion about the work in reviews or on message boards.

Quoting myself on this board, back in 2018:

...retirement is not a thing for someone like Brian.  Brian has never worked a 9-to-5 job.  He goes out on tour for a few weeks at a time, then is back home.  Not saying that touring is always easy, but it sure ain't breaking bricks in the hot sun.  Brian has a lot of time to be at home and do what he wants to do.  There's no daily grind that he needs to hang up and retire from.   A man needs a reason to get up in the morning, and not everyone just wants to lie around all day - that's how you end up dead.

The idea that someone has to "retire" after a certain age is outdated and frankly, offensive.  If a person is willing and able to do what they want to do, they should be allowed and encouraged to keep doing so.  Also, making music is not work for Brian.  It's as essential to him and air and food. 

I think that's what makes me sad about the calls for Brian to quit. What would people rather Brian be doing with his time? Brian should be doing whatever Brian wants to do (within the bounds of reason of course - I doubt his doctor would approve of him smoking weed all day watching Jeopardy haha). But if Brian makes music and wants to release it, why should anyone force him not to?

With all due respect, I'm curious what prompted this question? The only truly new music Brian has put out in the past five years is the newly written "Right Where I Belong," a song that seems to have been generally well received by fans, while the rest of the documentary soundtrack is re-recordings of old songs and previously unreleased demos. Otherwise, it's not as though Brian has been exactly churning out music for the past decade or so.

It was a post on another forum regarding the latest album/song from Brian. It wasn’t just regarding the music he puts out, but also his concerts. And yeah, I totally agree that most of the response to the latest offering has been positive. But I have heard more and more calls for Brian to quit in recent years, and most recently today.

I ask this question because more and more I see people saying that Brian should quit recording music and touring. Some of these opinions come from people who I respect and like as posters - so I'm not trying to call anyone out. But I'm really curious about this mindset.

As a creative myself, there's a line from 'Love and Mercy' that I think about quite often: Brian is having an argument with his father and says "I got different stuff inside me, I gotta get it out."

I write and record music. I do so partially as part of my job, but also partially as a hobby. The music I make as a hobby I sometimes post it on the internet. I will admit that my hobby music isn't great music, but I LOVE making it. I love how it sounds to me. But it would break my heart if someone told me I was embarrassing myself by posting that music. It would really hurt if someone told me to quit.

I guess that's why I pose this question. Because it seems like a really hurtful thing to request/wish upon an artist...even an artist like Brian Wilson who reached this upper echelon of musical brilliance who now isn't making music on that level. So because he's not making music on a Pet Sounds level (or even maybe on a Friends level) do we as fans have a right to wish him to quit making his art? Imagine if when Brian was destroying his voice in the 70s, and people told him to quit because of a few bad songs, and he never made music again? That would be a travesty considering the beautiful music he has made since then.

Creatives do have things inside of them they want to share - I don't think that ever goes away. So if Brian wants to make music, no matter how imperfect the vocal line, he should be able to do that. And if we don't like the music he sells, the beauty of the free market is that we don't need to buy products that we don't like. In fact, with a streaming service you don't even have to buy the product...you can listen to 30 seconds of it and see if it's something you want to devote any more time to.

As fans are we meant to be the judges of when someone should quit? We can absolutely be the judges of whether or not we want to listen to an artist or not. But I don't see the fairness in trying to be some kind of gatekeeper of Brian's dignity.

I'm not trying to stifle opinions - on the contrary, the more music Brian puts out, the more we have to critique. But if we make calls for him to quit, and he one day possibly reads those calls and quits making music, then we have nothing to hear, nothing to share an opinion about.

Anyways, I'd love to hear opinions from everyone about this. I don't want to argue about it, but to try and understand the mindset. You've heard my opinion above and I'd like to hear anyone else's take on the matter.

I don’t know. It just seems to me that old rock stars have better things to do than dictating random social media posts. I mean, we know that Brian has answered folks at times, but it’s usually been a distinct event or one night only kind of thing. In a case like this, I could see somebody writing the message, showing it to BW for sign off, and him nodding while barely paying attention. And I might be wrong!

Yeah, I can definitely see them writing some copy for him to sign off on in some cases. But when it comes to the passing of certain people, it would seem really inappropriate for them to write these short statements claiming they are from Brian (when they could just as easy be honest and sign them "from all of us in the Wilson family" or something). Like I say, I can't see Brian initiating the creation of these social media posts, but I can see his wife or someone asking him for a short statement. I don't think he's that busy (or incapable) to do such a thing. But I have no idea what goes on in this guy's life, so you could be very correct.