Billboard ariticle on Mike and song writing w/ Brian issues from last album

[Wirestone]

Oh, come on. It's pretty clear that this is all about a single person.

-- Joe Thomas.

That's it. Joe was invited back into the BB world by Brian and didn't just aid in recording the album, but he managed to get co-writing credits on every song but Mike's solo track. He ran the C50 touring organization. He put together the documentary, concert film and live album. He is helping realize Brian's new project (pay no mind to the recent production credit for Don Was -- the official press release credits JT as the collaborator-in-charge).

Look at what Mike said. He's talking about decisions made during the recording process -- which Joe and the backing band members have said he set up and scheduled. Mike's talking about integrity, etc., issues that arose on the road. These wouldn't have been caused by Brian or Melinda (and Mike knows better than to go after her at this point). But what about the third, little-seen member of the C50 organization?

Remember what AGD was saying recently. Something changed during the tour. Something changed toward the end of the run of shows, and it seems pretty clear that Mike and Joe had a massive falling out. Something to lead Mike to cut off the reunion project, something that led him to harshly reassess the most successful record he'd been involved with for 25 years. It must have been a pretty big deal.

Now, look at what's going on in BW land. Brian is touring with Al and Dave and has roped in Jeff Beck. Joe Thomas is still behind the scenes and has been spotted at shows. The band has video screens, and some of the accouterments of the C50 tour. Sure seems like someone in BW's orbit is interested in having the group tour as a challenge to Mike's version of the group. Given Brian's past, it's likely not him or Melinda.

So if Joe is interested in wresting control of the BB name or touring arrangements, Mike's decision to high-tail it back to the way things were, rather than being forced to work for the mulleted one, makes a lot more sense, doesn't it?

[ontor pertawst]

The band has video screens, and some of the accouterments of the C50 tour.

Mike and Bruce are the ones recycling C50 vids on the video screens. I don't remember a reference to video screens at the Brian Wilson + Al & David shows. Did they have any?

If Mike has a problem with Joe Thomas, he should just say Joe Thomas instead of "people." He'd have a lot of support, I bet!

[Wirestone]

The band has video screens, and some of the accouterments of the C50 tour.

Mike and Bruce are the ones recycling C50 vids on the video screens. I don't remember a reference to video screens at the Brian Wilson + Al & David shows. Did they have any?

If Mike has a problem with Joe Thomas, he should just say Joe Thomas instead of "people."

Yep. Multiple video screens. Look at the photo below and you can see six panels back there. (Video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32srqWL4jHo)

Mike and Bruce have replaced nearly all of the C50 videos, too, at the request of Brian and Al's folks.

[ontor pertawst]

Are there any pics with something actually projected? It's strange it wasn't mentioned in any of the reviews or stuff posted here. They aren't using the isolated vocal tracks, are they really projecting footage of Carl for God Only Knows during that anyway?

[Wirestone]

Are there any pics with something actually projected? It's strange it wasn't mentioned in any of the reviews or stuff posted here.

Look at the video link I added to the post. Mostly abstract patterns.

[ontor pertawst]

That isn't the C50 video. I Get Around had palm trees and cheesy driving footage during C50. That's prolly the venue.

God Only Knows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcT48TqYbZA

No Carl video. 

[alf wiedersehen]

That isn't the C50 video. I Get Around had palm trees and cheesy driving footage during C50. That's prolly the venue.

God Only Knows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcT48TqYbZA

No Carl video. M&B use the Carl video.

I don't think he was saying that they're using any of the C50 videos. It seems he was just saying that Joe Thomas is making a clear effort to compete with Mike's band by using some of the gimmicks that Mike's band has, like the video screens. It definitely makes sense that he would want Brian to tour and that he's doing it to beat out Mike.

[ontor pertawst]

But isn't it the other way around? Mike kept the things Joe Thomas' organization brought on board for C50. Then changed it when Brian and Al complained and removed their likenesses.

Wirestone you're right tho, there IS some of the same water footage here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_vmHT4SDuw

There aren't any screens at all on some of the other shows. Hope they aren't there for the fall leg -- cheesy distracting stuff! It'd be more useful if it ran a live feed from an onstage camera.

It definitely makes sense that he would want Brian to tour and that he's doing it to beat out Mike.

Touring is Joe Thomas' idea? And it's just to beat Mike Love? I thought it was more what Brian Wilson did. Musical therapy, too.

[Wirestone]

That's prolly the venue.

Here they are in Pittsburgh -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPVOt0ceTVw

Here they are in Atlantic City -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32srqWL4jHo

An outdoor venue different than the first two -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AgaFFJWVOc

So, not the venue. They are touring with video screens (at least some of the time).

I was never trying to say that they're using the C50 footage -- they're clearly not (thanks for getting my point, Bubbly Waves). But it seems clear to me that Joe (or someone in the org) wants them to keep using some sort of backing images while onstage. It ain't the bare-bones aesthetic you typically see in BW's solo shows.

[ontor pertawst]

Well, "That Lucky Old Sun."

I'm still not getting how it's Joe Thomas reacting to Mike Love, tho. Unless he had the projections pre-C50.

[alf wiedersehen]

But isn't it the other way around? Mike kept the things Joe Thomas' organization brought on board for C50. Then changed it when Brian and Al complained and removed their likenesses.

Yeah, I suppose that's true.

It definitely makes sense that he would want Brian to tour and that he's doing it to beat out Mike.

Touring is Joe Thomas' idea? And it's just to beat Mike Love? I thought it was more what Brian Wilson did. Musical therapy, too.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that Brian isn't a very big fan of touring and playing in front of people. Sort of why he sits behind that big piano.

[ontor pertawst]

Right, it must be Joe Thomas forcing him then. The power of the mullet compels you!

[drbeachboy]

The band has video screens, and some of the accouterments of the C50 tour.

Mike and Bruce are the ones recycling C50 vids on the video screens. I don't remember a reference to video screens at the Brian Wilson + Al & David shows. Did they have any?

If Mike has a problem with Joe Thomas, he should just say Joe Thomas instead of "people."

Yep. Multiple video screens. Look at the photo below and you can see six panels back there. (Video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32srqWL4jHo)

Mike and Bruce have replaced nearly all of the C50 videos, too, at the request of Brian and Al's folks.

Those panels are strickly lighting. Not one picture, still or moving was shown on them.

[alf wiedersehen]

Right, it must be Joe Thomas forcing him then. The power of the mullet compels you!

Forgive me for attempting a reasonable conversation.

[Wirestone]

The band has video screens, and some of the accouterments of the C50 tour.

Mike and Bruce are the ones recycling C50 vids on the video screens. I don't remember a reference to video screens at the Brian Wilson + Al & David shows. Did they have any?

If Mike has a problem with Joe Thomas, he should just say Joe Thomas instead of "people."

Yep. Multiple video screens. Look at the photo below and you can see six panels back there. (Video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32srqWL4jHo)

Mike and Bruce have replaced nearly all of the C50 videos, too, at the request of Brian and Al's folks.

Those panels are strickly lighting. Not one picture, still or moving was shown on them.

That's entirely incorrect, and rather bizarrely so. If you took a minute or two to look at the multiple YouTube videos I posted here, just minutes ago, you would see that the panels indeed display abstract video patterns throughout the show.

[Wirestone]

Right, it must be Joe Thomas forcing him then. The power of the mullet compels you!

Forgive me for attempting a reasonable conversation.

I doubt that Joe (or anyone, really) is forcing Brian to tour. But I do think that Joe may well have an interest in making the Brian, Al and Dave show be more visually compelling and accessible to a broader audience. Video screens do that, as do revered guest stars (hello, Jeff Beck).

And no, this isn't unique to Joe. Brian toured with video screens for a handful of appearances to promote TLOS. And he toured with Paul Simon back in 2001. So none of these things are new or unusual or sinister. My larger point was simply that I think Joe might have been interested in wresting control of the BB business, and the way things are coming together this summer and fall suggest he may still have ambitions in that direction.

[drbeachboy]

The band has video screens, and some of the accouterments of the C50 tour.

Mike and Bruce are the ones recycling C50 vids on the video screens. I don't remember a reference to video screens at the Brian Wilson + Al & David shows. Did they have any?

If Mike has a problem with Joe Thomas, he should just say Joe Thomas instead of "people."

Yep. Multiple video screens. Look at the photo below and you can see six panels back there. (Video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32srqWL4jHo)

Mike and Bruce have replaced nearly all of the C50 videos, too, at the request of Brian and Al's folks.

Those panels are strickly lighting. Not one picture, still or moving was shown on them.

That's entirely incorrect, and rather bizarrely so. If you took a minute or two to look at the multiple YouTube videos I posted here, just minutes ago, you would see that the panels indeed show moving abstract images throughout the show.

yea, so? What's your point? Joe brings the stage show into the 21st history. It's still nothing like what was used on the C50. I'm serious, I don't get what you're getting at.

[drbeachboy]

Right, it must be Joe Thomas forcing him then. The power of the mullet compels you!

Forgive me for attempting a reasonable conversation.

I doubt that Joe (or anyone, really) is forcing Brian to tour. But I do think that Joe may well have an interest in making the Brian, Al and Dave show be more visually compelling and accessible to a broader audience. Video screens do that, as do revered guest stars (hello, Jeff Beck).

And no, this isn't unique to Joe. Brian toured with video screens for a handful of appearances to promote TLOS. And he toured with Paul Simon back in 2001. So none of these things are new or unusual or sinister. My larger point was simply that I think Joe might have been interested in wresting control of the BB business, and the way things are coming together this summer and fall suggest he may still have ambitions in that direction.

Shoot, Brian had video on the Imagination tour. If Joe is wresting control, he still hasn't gotten it for the past 15 years.

[Shady]

I'm going to assume Melinda Wilson, Joe Thomas, and Jeffrey Foskett are at least a few of the people Mike has a problem with.

I always had a feeling Mike doesn't like Al very much

[Wirestone]

Shoot, Brian had video on the Imagination tour.

There was no Imagination tour. The record came out in the summer of 1998, and Brian did not start touring until the spring of 1999.

There was a single show in Saint Charles, Ill., in 1998 that was filmed for the Imagination VH1 special (and Your Imagination video). There were video projections at that single show.

[drbeachboy]

Shoot, Brian had video on the Imagination tour.

There was no Imagination tour. The record came out in the summer of 1998, and Brian did not start touring until the spring of 1999.

There was a single show in Saint Charles, Ill., in 1998 that was filmed for the Imagination VH1 special (and Your Imagination video). There were video projections at that single show.

You my friend are annoying. You know exactly what my point was, but you correct my usage of Imagination Tour. Maybe it wasn't called that, but that was the album that the tour was built around. Now, get on with addressing my point.

[MBE]

Why do people think shoving those 2 in a room in the 21st century would result in 60s-style greatness?

Does anyone??? Personally, I think it would be interesting to see what they could do together. Of course Brian would have to be open minded about Mike being able to write other stuff than just about surf and sand and actually challenge him to do so, and Mike would have to be open minded about writing not just about surf and sand.

That said, I'd like to write them a surf song called "I've got sand in my crack"

When it comes to the TWGMTR album the proof is in the pudding. The Brian stuff is good to great, the Mike stuff is dire to crap ... Spring Vacation, Beaches in Mind and Daybreak Over the Ocean are, if they weren't so bad, forgettable.

Man, the worst song the BBs ever put out is The Private Life Of Bill And Sue, and that's all Brian, no Mike! (The second worst is Summer Of Love which is no Brian and mostly Mike.)

Daybreak Over The Ocean is good because the production is good, regardless of Brian not being involved, and the song in itself is decent. (Mike's first version is terrible even though it's the same song.)

Equally, the bad thing about Beaches In Mind isn't the lyrics, it's the production. The song is too slow and would need a more rocking arrangement. Or at least some kind of arrangement.

The best tracks on TWGMTR are Isn't It Time and Summer's Gone, which have just little respectively no Mike input.

So what proof is in what pudding?

Wow you echo me exactly. Otherwise I think it's sad to see Mike's every move result in immovable arguments off inevitably the same people. Some of us here just are Beach Boys fans as in Brian, Carl, Dennis, Mike, Al, Dave, Bruce, Ricky, and Blondie. I like them all musically speaking, and see how each of their talents benefited the group. Mike and Brian haven't spent quality creative time together since Brian visited Mike in Santa Barbara in 1980. It would be cool if they could do it the old way. If both want to they should be given the chance. At the end of the day I don't care much about their ongoing squabbles. The vintage sixties and seventies stuff is a gift that makes all of this seem pretty dumb.

[Moon Dawg]

I'm going to assume Melinda Wilson, Joe Thomas, and Jeffrey Foskett are at least a few of the people Mike has a problem with.

I always had a feeling Mike doesn't like Al very much

 They seemed like friends and allies throughout the seventies though. Maybe simply because neither man shared some of the same habits as the brothers Wilson?

[Moon Dawg]

 duplicate post

[Cam Mott]

Mike should just find someone else to write with and make solo albums.

Or people could just stick to their word to Mike.

Sorry, but after numerous "Mike stuck to what they contractually agreed to" posts from folks who seem fine with Mike nixing more reunion activities, this assertion doesn't hold water. Mike agreed to the project based on whatever terms he did. I highly doubt there were any promises (and certainly no contractual obligations) for Brian/Mike co-writing sessions. In fact, the evidence we have seems to indicate the form the album would take was known WELL in advance of even finishing recording it, and probably before the other BB's even began work on it.

I think Mike just told you promises were not kept and as you point out Mike sticks to his word.