Billboard ariticle on Mike and song writing w/ Brian issues from last album

[alf wiedersehen]

It may be, in Mike's mind, deep down, about his songwring legacy.  One more Brian/Mike written album to cement them historically as an all time great songwriting duo.

But when was the last time Brian and Mike sat down and wrote an album? Wild Honey.

True, but look at how that album turned out. In my opinion, which seems to be he popular one around here, it's a fantastic album.

I realize a considerable amount of time has passed since then, but I still would enjoy an album by Wilson/Love more than I would an album by Wilson/Thomas/Love/Bon Jovi. Easily.

[Lowbacca]

You guys need to admit, if the songs that have Mike's name (buried in the credits) on TWGMTR didn't have his name in there, you'd defend them with your life as great!

Take me out of that equation, please. I've never thoroughly checked the TWGMTR credits - all I know about the songwriting situation on that album comes from interviews with the principals and this board. There's maybe one or two really great songs on TWGMTR (which still suffer from a lot of the production decisions) and I frankly don't care how much Brian (or Mike) had to do with them. If I knew for sure that Mike had written, say, "Isn't It Time" all by himself I'd give him credit for that. Why shouldn't I?

But that's a whole different discussion...

[ontor pertawst]

You guys need to admit, if the songs that have Mike's name (buried in the credits) on TWGMTR didn't have his name in there, you'd defend them with your life as great!

My guess is Brian did VERY VERY VERY little work on TWGMTR.....  Sure, he sat at the console for a few pictures and video clips, but Joe Thomas and Jeff, and the guy holding the autotune knob called the shots.

Damn Brian Wilson fans being Brian Wilson fans! The nerve! Don't they understand that Mike Love is equally responsible and co-genius? Surely history if not thousands of forum posts will right this wrong. Nice distraction from the interview, tho.

You're right, Oregon River Rider... It's a legacy thing isn't it. He's got an uphill battle ahead of him with the movie and book coming out, it'll be fun if they time it to have battlin' books! A shame Stamos doesn't have the juice any more to make a competing movie. Seeing as the young generation look to him as a kind of spiritual leader, he really could've done a lot of the heavy lifting.
 

[SurfRiderHawaii]

It may be, in Mike's mind, deep down, about his songwring legacy.  One more Brian/Mike written album to cement them historically as an all time great songwriting duo.

Problem is it would most likely be worse than "Goin to the Beach". Unless they had a Rick Rubin kind of guy overseeing the whole thing. But when was the last time Brian and Mike sat down and wrote an album? Wild Honey.

Mike just won't accept Brian doesn't want to do it. Or just can't do it. Brian doesn't  have it in him, nor does he want to rehash fun in the sun yet again. Mike should not take it personally as, at this point, Brian needs multiple musical collabotators to be productive. Best Mike can hope for is a song he can add lyrics to.

It's very simple really. If Brian wants to do a another Beach Boys album, then he now knows what he has to do to make it happen. If not, Brian records solo. I'm not sure it's that simple, but if each guy knew this after the tour, then we know where Brian stands now, don't we?

Brian needs multiple collaborators and Mike needs to accept the reality of it. And after 50 years of Brian doing just that, all of a sudden that doesn't work for Mike? If Mike was a cool head and chill, maybe Brian would pick up the phone and say let's write a song. But Mike is a bit of a jerk (I met him privately, up close and personal-the reputation ain't for nothing). I wouldn't want to write with him! Can't blame Brian for wanting harmony at this point in his life.

So this interview is saying again, between the lines, that Mike ended the C50 because of his ego.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

You guys need to admit, if the songs that have Mike's name (buried in the credits) on TWGMTR didn't have his name in there, you'd defend them with your life as great!

My guess is Brian did VERY VERY VERY little work on TWGMTR.....  Sure, he sat at the console for a few pictures and video clips, but Joe Thomas and Jeff, and the guy holding the autotune knob called the shots.

Damn Brian Wilson fans being Brian Wilson fans! The nerve! Don't they understand that Mike Love is equally responsible and co-genius? Surely history if not thousands of forum posts will right this wrong. Nice distraction from the interview, tho.

You're right, Oregon River Rider... It's a legacy thing isn't it. He's got an uphill battle ahead of him with the movie and book coming out, it'll be fun if they time it to have battlin' books! A shame Stamos doesn't have the juice any more to make a competing movie. Seeing as the young generation look to him as a kind of spiritual leader, he really could've done a lot of the heavy lifting.
 

I hear Mike is trying to line up Jimmy Page to co-headline the 2014 BB summer tour. 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

You guys need to admit, if the songs that have Mike's name (buried in the credits) on TWGMTR didn't have his name in there, you'd defend them with your life as great!

My guess is Brian did VERY VERY VERY little work on TWGMTR.....  Sure, he sat at the console for a few pictures and video clips, but Joe Thomas and Jeff, and the guy holding the autotune knob called the shots.

Damn Brian Wilson fans being Brian Wilson fans! The nerve! Don't they understand that Mike Love is equally responsible and co-genius? Surely history if not thousands of forum posts will right this wrong. Nice distraction from the interview, tho.

You're right, Oregon River Rider... It's a legacy thing isn't it. He's got an uphill battle ahead of him with the movie and book coming out, it'll be fun if they time it to have battlin' books! A shame Stamos doesn't have the juice any more to make a competing movie. Seeing as the young generation look to him as a kind of spiritual leader, he really could've done a lot of the heavy lifting.
 

Just passing on a bit of reality that should be faced...... Much like you guys are doing...

I don't think Mike wants the entire universe to revolve around Brian/Mike writing together 24/7 all year round, but WHEN THERE'S A NEW BEACH BOYS ALBUM BEING MADE......... well then.....

[ontor pertawst]

The reality is that The Beach Boys who want to work together on albums are working together on albums. Fine by me! Let Mike sulk to Billboard and to cub reporters at the county fair about not getting enough control and blame Big Bad Joe Thomas and THOSE PEOPLE AROUND BRIAN for him not being creative any more. I'm sure that's what's stopping him from writing great songs and getting his crappy solo albums released. Joe Thomas.

[HeyJude]

Mike should just find someone else to write with and make solo albums.

Or people could just stick to their word to Mike.

Sorry, but after numerous "Mike stuck to what they contractually agreed to" posts from folks who seem fine with Mike nixing more reunion activities, this assertion doesn't hold water. Mike agreed to the project based on whatever terms he did. I highly doubt there were any promises (and certainly no contractual obligations) for Brian/Mike co-writing sessions. In fact, the evidence we have seems to indicate the form the album would take was known WELL in advance of even finishing recording it, and probably before the other BB's even began work on it.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

The reality is that The Beach Boys who want to work together on albums are working together on albums. Fine by me! Let Mike sulk to Billboard and to cub reporters at the county fair about not getting enough control and blame Big Bad Joe Thomas and THOSE PEOPLE AROUND BRIAN for him not being creative any more. I'm sure that's what's stopping him from writing great songs. Joe Thomas.

It's a lost cause with you guys because you worship Brian to an almost unhealthy extent, and it most certainly makes Brian uncomfortable.....

[drbeachboy]

I'm sure ego is one component. It could be Brian's too. I wouldn't take much stock comparing your relationship with Mike, and Brian's relationship with Mike. I'm sure it's complicated, but as cousins (non-Beach Boys) it could be a loving relationship. Family and business can be strange bedfellows.

I doubt very seriously that Mike is looking or expecting to write 12 songs with Brian. What I do think that he is looking for is at least a few songs written together beginning to end. Just speculation on my part, though.

[ontor pertawst]

The reality is that The Beach Boys who want to work together on albums are working together on albums. Fine by me! Let Mike sulk to Billboard and to cub reporters at the county fair about not getting enough control and blame Big Bad Joe Thomas and THOSE PEOPLE AROUND BRIAN for him not being creative any more. I'm sure that's what's stopping him from writing great songs. Joe Thomas.

It's a lost cause with you guys because you worship Brian to an almost unhealthy extent, and it most certainly makes Brian uncomfortable.....

ALMOST unhealthy? Screw that, totally unhealthy. I'm posting to a Beach Boys forum instead of working, arguing with someone who advocates for the healing power of John Stamos. It's totally, totally unhealthy and Brian should stay far away from all of us.

Insulting me is still not going to transform Mike Love into a brilliant lyricist in 2013, tho. He's a good frontman but there's a reason Capitol didn't snatch him up greedily when C50 exploded.

 That isn't Brian Wilson's fault or his geeky fans. Peter Bagge totally had it nailed with that "the straight male nerd's Judy Garland" line, but it still doesn't transform Love into McCartney.

[HeyJude]

There's something amiss here. Loaf alluded to it:

IF we are to accept the Joe Thomas account of the sessions, the ever-so-wily Brian Wilson was sitting on tracks from '98, approached Capitol on his own volition, and basically closed the BB's deal on his own. That's what Joe reported, for what it's worth. If that DID happen, then how in the hell does that leave room for sitting down at the piano with his cousin Mike? A deal was struck on preexisting tracks, and even with a few more to follow - that doesn't sound like a brand new soup to nuts Brian Wilson / Mike Love creation. It sounds like a Brian Wilson creation with (selected) input from Mike and the boys.

Why is that a problem? Mike's deluding himself if he still thinks he's got the moxie to create an entire conceptualized album. Leave it to the professionals, like Brian, Joe and now, Don Was.

You make some important points. By the accounts we have, Brian secured a deal for a BB's album without any of the other BB's, and this deal was secured based on songs Brian had worked up with Joe Thomas.

It's likely some recording sessions for the backing tracks took place before the other BB's were even involved. Long story short, the other BB's seemed to know the nature of the album before they got involved and before they signed on. Surely there was some room to maneuver (thus we got some Love lyrics, one Love track flown in from his solo album; an obvious concession), but the overall nature of the album that Capitol gave the greenlight to was Brian/Joe Thomas tracks with the BB's singing on them.

I still think this songwriting business is just a method for Mike to discuss the larger issue he has, which is that other songwriters, and whatever else it is that keeps Mike from being able to get Brian "alone" in a room, is indicative of the machine that been surrounding Brian since late 1982. It has always been there, for better and worse. I think the issue is less about being able to write tons of songs alone with Brian, and more about pointing out the lack of ability to do that as indicator that "others" have to be involved to work with Brian. The whole BB organization has known this for a loooong time, this hasn't changed in ages.

[Lowbacca]

The reality is that The Beach Boys who want to work together on albums are working together on albums. Fine by me! Let Mike sulk to Billboard and to cub reporters at the county fair about not getting enough control and blame Big Bad Joe Thomas and THOSE PEOPLE AROUND BRIAN for him not being creative any more. I'm sure that's what's stopping him from writing great songs. Joe Thomas.

It's a lost cause with you guys because you worship Brian to an almost unhealthy extent, and it most certainly makes Brian uncomfortable.....

ALMOST unhealthy? Screw that, totally unhealthy. I'm posting to a Beach Boys forum instead of working, arguing with someone who advocates for the healing power of John Stamos. It's totally, totally unhealthy and Brian should stay far away from all of us.

Insulting me is still not going to transform Mike Love into a brilliant lyricist in 2013, tho. He's a good frontman but there's a reason Capitol didn't snatch him up greedily when C50 exploded.

Dito.

[drbeachboy]

The reality is that The Beach Boys who want to work together on albums are working together on albums. Fine by me! Let Mike sulk to Billboard and to cub reporters at the county fair about not getting enough control and blame Big Bad Joe Thomas and THOSE PEOPLE AROUND BRIAN for him not being creative any more. I'm sure that's what's stopping him from writing great songs. Joe Thomas.

It's a lost cause with you guys because you worship Brian to an almost unhealthy extent, and it most certainly makes Brian uncomfortable.....

ALMOST unhealthy? Screw that, totally unhealthy. I'm posting to a Beach Boys forum instead of working, arguing with someone who advocates for the healing power of John Stamos. It's totally, totally unhealthy and Brian should stay far away from all of us.

Insulting me is still not going to transform Mike Love into a brilliant lyricist in 2013, tho. He's a good frontman but there's a reason Capitol didn't snatch him up greedily when C50 exploded.

There is a reason for that. We buy music with lyrics, not just lyrics. Can't remember my last album of poetry readings. As for brilliant lyricist, again you are judging before the work is put before you. You can't call the guy out when there are no 2013 lyrics to discuss.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

The reality is that The Beach Boys who want to work together on albums are working together on albums. Fine by me! Let Mike sulk to Billboard and to cub reporters at the county fair about not getting enough control and blame Big Bad Joe Thomas and THOSE PEOPLE AROUND BRIAN for him not being creative any more. I'm sure that's what's stopping him from writing great songs. Joe Thomas.

It's a lost cause with you guys because you worship Brian to an almost unhealthy extent, and it most certainly makes Brian uncomfortable.....

ALMOST unhealthy? Screw that, totally unhealthy. I'm posting to a Beach Boys forum instead of working, arguing with someone who advocates for the healing power of John Stamos. It's totally, totally unhealthy and Brian should stay far away from all of us.

Insulting me is still not going to transform Mike Love into a brilliant lyricist in 2013, tho. He's a good frontman but there's a reason Capitol didn't snatch him up greedily when C50 exploded.

 That isn't Brian Wilson's fault or his geeky fans. Peter Bagge totally had it nailed with that "the straight male nerd's Judy Garland" line, but it still doesn't transform Love into McCartney.

I'll happily take him over (post 1970) McCartney any day no matter what the sanctimonious opinion of the Brian-fellaters is.

[ontor pertawst]

Terrific! I'm sure he'll have lots of solo albums ready for you to purchase soon, then. Free of that terrible burden of Brian Wilson weighing things down with melancholy gloom and doom... and that damn troublemaker Al Jardine! Always goin' on about Cottonfields. Yeah yeah yeah, it was a hit overseas, Al, we know.

As for brilliant lyricist, again you are judging before the work is put before you. You can't call the guy out when there are no 2013 lyrics to discuss.

I don't need to discuss hypothetical lyrics, I already dislike everything he's written since the late 70s with the exception of Male Ego. That's enough for me to judge his "current output," I should think. I'm willing to give him another 10 years to impress me, I guess. BUT NO MORE, Mike Love! Cool head, warm heart, empty wallet!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Terrific! I'm sure he'll have lots of solo albums ready for you to purchase soon, then. Free of that terrible burden of Brian Wilson weighing things down with melancholy gloom and doom... and that damn troublemaker Al Jardine! Always goin' on about Cottonfields. Yeah yeah yeah, it was a hit overseas, Al, we know.

As for brilliant lyricist, again you are judging before the work is put before you. You can't call the guy out when there are no 2013 lyrics to discuss.

I don't need to discuss hypothetical lyrics, I already dislike everything he's written since the late 70s with the exception of Male Ego. That's enough for me to judge his "current output," I should think. I'm willing to give him another 10 years to impress me, I guess. BUT NO MORE, Mike Love! Cool head, warm heart, empty wallet!

No, but at least I have tons of shitty McCartney albums to try and suffer through..... Driving Rain was damn good though.

Ontor: I thought by now you'd realize I'm just trying to piss you off into working some photoshop magic 

[Dancing Bear]

When it comes to the TWGMTR album the proof is in the pudding. The Brian stuff is good to great, the Mike stuff is dire to crap ... Spring Vacation, Beaches in Mind and Daybreak Over the Ocean are, if they weren't so bad, forgettable.

I don't get it. Brian composed the music for Spring Vacation and Beaches in Mind as much as for Summer's Gone. Would you like 'em more if Joe had written the lyrics?

[ontor pertawst]

Ontor: I thought by now you'd realize I'm just trying to piss you off into working some photoshop magic  Evil

Ha! It's hard for me to take this Mike/Brian stuff personal... It's like Mac/PC in Hawaiian shirts. I just like the music and am curious to see how these Brian/Al/David sessions turn out...

Also... not really a McCartney fan. For some reason the boys seem to need him to validate themselves, tho. All that money, success, and longlasting careers and they still both sound so desperately insecure. Maybe if Murry and Milton weren't such dicks, this would've worked out differently. On the other hand, maybe they wouldn't have had the drive to fight so hard!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

When it comes to the TWGMTR album the proof is in the pudding. The Brian stuff is good to great, the Mike stuff is dire to crap ... Spring Vacation, Beaches in Mind and Daybreak Over the Ocean are, if they weren't so bad, forgettable.

I don't get it. Brian composed the music for Spring Vacation and Beaches in Mind as much as for Summer's Gone. Would you like 'em more if Joe had written the lyrics?

Perhaps they would like "Rainy And Windy Chicago Streets In Mind" a bit more....

[drbeachboy]

Terrific! I'm sure he'll have lots of solo albums ready for you to purchase soon, then. Free of that terrible burden of Brian Wilson weighing things down with melancholy gloom and doom... and that damn troublemaker Al Jardine! Always goin' on about Cottonfields. Yeah yeah yeah, it was a hit overseas, Al, we know.

As for brilliant lyricist, again you are judging before the work is put before you. You can't call the guy out when there are no 2013 lyrics to discuss.

I don't need to discuss hypothetical lyrics, I already dislike everything he's written since the late 70s with the exception of Male Ego. That's enough for me to judge his "current output," I should think. I'm willing to give him another 10 years to impress me, I guess. BUT NO MORE, Mike Love! Cool head, warm heart, empty wallet!

Then stop being a fan then. Buy Brian solo albums to feed your habit. You really sound more like a Brian Wilson fan than a Beach Boys fan and no amount of discussion will change that. Funny, I have always disliked Mike, but I never reviled the guy like some you guys do. I always wind up defending him, because some of you are so irrational with always wanting to bury the guy. Mike is no saint, but this band is so dysfunctional it's a wonder any of them get along with each other.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Haven't some of the worst Beach Boys lyrics in the last 30++ years been written solely by Brian???

Worst as in: I still love them, just like I adore Mike's bad lyrics too.

[drbeachboy]

Haven't some of the worst Beach Boys lyrics in the last 30++ years been written solely by Brian???

Worst as in: I still love them, just like I adore Mike's bad lyrics too.

Like, 'Well oh my, oh gosh, oh gee, she really send chills inside of me"? Funny, but not worthy of being called great lyrical content.

[HeyJude]

Haven't some of the worst Beach Boys lyrics in the last 30++ years been written solely by Brian???

Worst as in: I still love them, just like I adore Mike's bad lyrics too.

Undoubtedly, which is why some of Brian's best stuff has been when he has a collaborator that writes good or at least better lyrics. So if both Mike and Brian presently don't write the best of lyrics, why in the world would the best solution be to have them write together at the exclusion of anybody else?

[Sheriff John Stone]

When it comes to the TWGMTR album the proof is in the pudding. The Brian stuff is good to great, the Mike stuff is dire to crap ... Spring Vacation, Beaches in Mind and Daybreak Over the Ocean are, if they weren't so bad, forgettable.

And yet, those three songs you mentioned (and you can even throw in the "Do It Again" remake), reach me or touch me as much as the supposed "deeper" stuff on the album. I know they're not supposed to, I'm supposed to dismiss them. They just seem more genuine or honest or really Beach Boys' songs.

I don't think Mike's motivation is based entirely on money or legacy or ego. Well, maybe ego, because Mike has to look at Brian's lyricists/collaborators over the last 25 years and think, "Hey, I coulda done as good as them..." Or better.

Maybe that initial agreement between Mike and Brian was for re-recording older tunes. The recent Brian Wilson relies much more on his collaborators to write his/the/new songs than Mike might be able to provide for.