Durrie Parks Smile acetates up for sale for $10,000

[buddhahat]

I"ve misplaced it, but can somebody tell me....didn't Vosse mention a 2-sided single in the Fusion interview or am I remembering wrong?

Yeah he desribes it as follows:

"The best version I heard, which was never completed, was an A side B side version lasting about six minutes. It was a beautifully structured work and Van Dyke was still very involved."

[guitarfool2002]

Up until December 19th I imagine Brian at least thought he had a good handle on the song. It seems logical to assume that it was a fade sequence which was being recorded on that date given that's ostensibly the only thing that hadn't been recorded yet. It was on December 27th and December 28th, when he spent a total of 12 hours alone in the studio likely trying to edit what he had into something usable that I imagine he first started to realize he had gotten in over his head.

The only piece of recorded evidence which would dispute this exists as the "Cantina" mix of Heroes, which Chuck Britz had mixed down and by all "audio evidence" was sounding like the next single.

This was the version that caused such a stir when it was finally "officially" released first on the Smiley two-fer, then on the '93 box set. And it is still my favorite of all the "Heroes"

Obviously Brian had second thoughts, and decided against releasing that particular final mix (as he had done with Good Vibrations, rejecting several versions), but the existence of that master proves he had something ready to go in early '67 that I feel is better than *any* of his subsequent versions...the energy, the drive, the cool sonic ear candy he put on that version, it could have been a great single.

And it was mixed as a single, not as a test mix or test edit or anything of the sort that we're speculating on around whatever test edit(s) the acetate stash may reveal.

The "Cantina" version as mixed down proves he did have something useable and just a step or two away from release in early '67.

[Bicyclerider]

And chuck Britz also mentioned a 2 sided single for Heroes in addition to Vosse.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Could Mark or whomever give us a Part 2 with the tight edits like what we hear glimpses of on things like on the "early version outtake" thing? They have a reel with the parts in order, yes? But am I to understand the versions with the tight edits ("CLAP CLAP dit dit dit...", you know what I'm saying) are missing? Can they be recreated in some manner?

[guitarfool2002]

And chuck Britz also mentioned a 2 sided single for Heroes in addition to Vosse.

Exactly, and as far as those people closest to Brian during the whole process, I would think the words of a man who was mixing this stuff and the man who was acting as Brian's de facto assistant besides being a friend who was a regular presence in and out of the studio would weigh more heavily than even something, say, Al Jardine would recall because those guys were actually there more than Al, or Bruce, or whoever.

And add that to what I said earlier about the Britz "Cantina" mix, there were definite plans on the table at least for a time. You wouldn't think Britz or Vosse (his memory only a year or two removed from actual events) would remember something as specific as a 2-sided single if it were not prominently being mentioned at that time.

[Cam Mott]

And as I remember Chuck said they had a finished version of a two sided H&V single [is that right?] that was subsequently dissected for construction of the released version of H&V and he would presumably know as he would be closer to that project than Vosse.

Also, unless I'm mistaken, a two sided H&V single would require...[dramatic pause]...two separate H&V masters. One for side one, as in H&V master #57020, and one for "side 2", as in H&V Part II master #57045. [drops mic and out]

Anticlaimatic edit: Ignore my repetition of points posted whilst I was composing.

[guitarfool2002]

And as I remember Chuck said they had a finished version of a two sided H&V single [is that right?] that was subsequently dissected for construction of the released version of H&V and he would presumably know as he would be closer to that project than Vosse.

Also, unless I'm mistaken, a two sided H&V single would require...[dramatic pause]...two separate H&V masters. One for side one, as in H&V master #57020, and one for "side 2", as in H&V Part II master #57045. [drops mic and out]

Anticlaimatic edit: Ignore my repetition of points posted whilst I was composing.

I agree. As far as masters and numbers assigned, I would think they would be assigned two separate numbers as you point out, for when they start cutting the actual record(s) on the lathe or whatever. Was this the case with other famous 2-sided singles like "Fingertips" by Stevie Wonder or "What I'd Say" by Ray Charles? On those they faded out then faded back in on the flip side, I'm curious if both A and B sides got a different number since it was continuing the same track.

But yeah, for mastering and cutting purposes I'd think you'd need two separate numbers anyway. But I'm definitely not certain of that.

[Cam Mott]

I don't know on other 2 sided singles, maybe a label call? Or would it be the recording studio that would make that call? Producer maybe?

My observation is the two sided single was not an attempt to make a continuous or carry through single really . To me it seems to show itself as a bifurcated single. The side one is the single for airplay and the Part II side 2 gives all of the indications to be a sort of album trailer or altered sampler or comp. Like a synopsis of the album or something. Part II so far as is known [still haven't boned up on c-man research] is a master of sections of the album tracks for SMiLE. Not quotes from the album tracks, but rerecorded and slightly different versions of sections from the album tracks ie.: DYLW chorus , H&V verse, The Elements as intro, YAS fade. What about the keys of the bits recorded for H&V master #57020 versus keys of bits rerecorded for H&V Part II master #57045? Do those tell any story?

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I don't know on other 2 sided singles, maybe a label call? Or would it be the recording studio that would make that call? Producer maybe?

My observation is the two sided single was not an attempt to make a continuous or carry through single really . To me it seems to show itself as a bifurcated single. The side one is the single for airplay and the Part II side 2 gives all of the indications to be a sort of album trailer or altered sampler or comp. Part II so far as is known [still haven't boned up on c-man research] is a master of sections of the album tracks for SMiLE. Not quotes from the album tracks, but rerecorded and slightly different versions of sections from the album tracks ie.: DYLW chorus , H&V verse, The Elements as intro, YAS fade. What about the keys of the bits recorded for H&V master #57020 versus keys of bits rerecorded for H&V Part II master #57045? Do those tell any story?

I think by time of the H&V 2-sided single all them other Smile tracks were discarded and already up for grabs. H&V is a black hole sucking everything else into it. I don't believe in an album trailer because by that point there was no album to...trail....

[Cam Mott]

Now that I think about this collection of bits from the album collected as H&V Part II master #57045 for side 2 [B?] of the H&V single it might make more sense than I realized in light of Brian's quote about the B side of the H&V single in early February. As I remember he was going back and forth on giving too much away about the album and just doing him and a piano instead. Wouldn't giving too much away imply there was significant amount of material from the album involved? Would he say that if it was only a song from the album? Or wouldn't he be not concerned about giving away anything if the B side was all material that was not from the album?

Does that make sense? Did I remember the quote right?

[guitarfool2002]

I don't know on other 2 sided singles, maybe a label call? Or would it be the recording studio that would make that call? Producer maybe?

My observation is the two sided single was not an attempt to make a continuous or carry through single really . To me it seems to show itself as a bifurcated single. The side one is the single for airplay and the Part II side 2 gives all of the indications to be a sort of album trailer or altered sampler or comp. Part II so far as is known [still haven't boned up on c-man research] is a master of sections of the album tracks for SMiLE. Not quotes from the album tracks, but rerecorded and slightly different versions of sections from the album tracks ie.: DYLW chorus , H&V verse, The Elements as intro, YAS fade. What about the keys of the bits recorded for H&V master #57020 versus keys of bits rerecorded for H&V Part II master #57045? Do those tell any story?

I think by time of the H&V 2-sided single all them other Smile tracks were discarded and already up for grabs. H&V is a black hole sucking everything else into it. I don't believe in an album trailer because by that point there was no album to...trail....

Doubtful. Unless you can pin down a date or even a month when the 2-sided single idea was active, I don't think it's possible to say all the other tracks were "discarded" in any definite way until at least May '67, into June.

[Cam Mott]

I don't know on other 2 sided singles, maybe a label call? Or would it be the recording studio that would make that call? Producer maybe?

My observation is the two sided single was not an attempt to make a continuous or carry through single really . To me it seems to show itself as a bifurcated single. The side one is the single for airplay and the Part II side 2 gives all of the indications to be a sort of album trailer or altered sampler or comp. Part II so far as is known [still haven't boned up on c-man research] is a master of sections of the album tracks for SMiLE. Not quotes from the album tracks, but rerecorded and slightly different versions of sections from the album tracks ie.: DYLW chorus , H&V verse, The Elements as intro, YAS fade. What about the keys of the bits recorded for H&V master #57020 versus keys of bits rerecorded for H&V Part II master #57045? Do those tell any story?

I think by time of the H&V 2-sided single all them other Smile tracks were discarded and already up for grabs. H&V is a black hole sucking everything else into it. I don't believe in an album trailer because by that point there was no album to...trail....

The thing is they are not discarded or borrowed tracks recorded for the album, they are new recordings and different recordings recorded for the H&V Part II master # 57045. So he isn't taking apart the album for H&V Part II master #57045 instead he has created new and different recordings that reference the album tracks in ways different from the album tracks.

[Cam Mott]

I don't know on other 2 sided singles, maybe a label call? Or would it be the recording studio that would make that call? Producer maybe?

My observation is the two sided single was not an attempt to make a continuous or carry through single really . To me it seems to show itself as a bifurcated single. The side one is the single for airplay and the Part II side 2 gives all of the indications to be a sort of album trailer or altered sampler or comp. Part II so far as is known [still haven't boned up on c-man research] is a master of sections of the album tracks for SMiLE. Not quotes from the album tracks, but rerecorded and slightly different versions of sections from the album tracks ie.: DYLW chorus , H&V verse, The Elements as intro, YAS fade. What about the keys of the bits recorded for H&V master #57020 versus keys of bits rerecorded for H&V Part II master #57045? Do those tell any story?

I think by time of the H&V 2-sided single all them other Smile tracks were discarded and already up for grabs. H&V is a black hole sucking everything else into it. I don't believe in an album trailer because by that point there was no album to...trail....

Doubtful. Unless you can pin down a date or even a month when the 2-sided single idea was active, I don't think it's possible to say all the other tracks were "discarded" in any definite way until at least May '67, into June.

Whoops.

The two concurrent masters for H&V period would be January 5 though March 2, well before the "official" announcement of cancellation and even before the SMiLE album covers were completed.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I don't know on other 2 sided singles, maybe a label call? Or would it be the recording studio that would make that call? Producer maybe?

My observation is the two sided single was not an attempt to make a continuous or carry through single really . To me it seems to show itself as a bifurcated single. The side one is the single for airplay and the Part II side 2 gives all of the indications to be a sort of album trailer or altered sampler or comp. Part II so far as is known [still haven't boned up on c-man research] is a master of sections of the album tracks for SMiLE. Not quotes from the album tracks, but rerecorded and slightly different versions of sections from the album tracks ie.: DYLW chorus , H&V verse, The Elements as intro, YAS fade. What about the keys of the bits recorded for H&V master #57020 versus keys of bits rerecorded for H&V Part II master #57045? Do those tell any story?

I think by time of the H&V 2-sided single all them other Smile tracks were discarded and already up for grabs. H&V is a black hole sucking everything else into it. I don't believe in an album trailer because by that point there was no album to...trail....

Doubtful. Unless you can pin down a date or even a month when the 2-sided single idea was active, I don't think it's possible to say all the other tracks were "discarded" in any definite way until at least May '67, into June.

He is re-recording them to replace them, not to make some grand, inconnected piece of work.

My method of thinking is that once "the single" became the top priority everything that was recorded previously was up for grabs. Brian was desperate to make "H&V" a worthy follow up to "Good Vibrations" (especially now that the song was a massive hit) and thus put all his eggs in one basket, dismantling several other potential songs in the process.

The Feb. cantina mix of H&V is already a composite of things stolen from several other Smile songs.

First he took the fade from "Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine" and made it the H&V fade.

Then there was the idea of a "tape explosion", first used for the "Great Shape" segment (which, in and of itself, was originally part of H&V, though according to the album jacket it was gonna get a life of it's own). The effect was taken and reused in H&V. That doesn't necessarily mean that he wouldn't have used the effect twice on one album, but it's unlikely.

Then Brian found his chorus by lifting the "Bicycle Rider" theme from "Worms".

The whole Smile "suite" idea is partly built on the idea of repetitive musical motives. But this "ain't necessarily so" (reference to his bland Gershwin album...get it?!?). Anything that he took from another song and used in H&V left the original song sort of dead in the water.

This is why Smiley Smile contains the specific Smile songs that it does. They are the ones that hadn't been eaten by H&V during the creative process. (Aside from Surf's Up and Cabin Essence, of course).

The Hawaiian chant of Worms became "Whistle In", "Fire" became "Fall Breaks...", the "tape explosion" became a burst of organ in "Wind Chime",  "Child is Father of the Man" ends up as a small portion of "Little Bird", and even the joke of having someone saying something between verses ("You're Under Arrest!"), is reconditioned and reused elsewhere ("Good") .

There was nothing precious and untouchable about the original Smile material. As soon as he got back to the studio after the holiday break it's clear something has changed in the agenda. It was a time of dismantling and starting again. Brian wasn't finished sculpting. Smiley Smile is the finished sculpture, whether you like it or not.

This is why it's not really possible to cobble together a legitimate Smile dream sequence utilizing a wild and zany "Heroes and Villains"; because it never co-existed with the other songs. It was born from them. And that, Doc Brown, is why the version on this acetate is important.

[Catbirdman]

Anything that he took from another song and used in H&V left the original song sort of dead in the water.

I don't think you can really say that definitively. The fact that he used the major key version of the "bicycle rider" piece as an insert in the Smiley Smile version of Wonderful shows that Brian didn't necessarily rule out the idea of reusing the same musical bits within the same album.

Much of what is posited on these message boards nearly 50 years after the fact is loads of fun and yeah, you can get a little ways down the path toward reasonable speculation, but anyone who has been involved in a creative project realizes that it goes all over the place. If I were to watch people analyzing the contents of an old hard drive of mine from 10 years ago (let alone 50!), trying to make heads or tails of what an album was meant to be based on file names and key changes and the like, I'd probably sit back and laugh wildly over the whole spectacle.

[leggo of my ego]

Then there was the idea of a "tape explosion", first used for the "Great Shape" segment (which, in and of itself, was originally part of H&V,

Having owned a couple of tape echo machines (Echoplex) I can explain how the "explosion" is done.

It is tape echo regenerative feedback. The units have control to adjust how many times the echo signal is repeated
and when you crank that knob up it causes a feedback loop. The sound of the original signal gets transformed into
a swelling cacophony of sound as it plays back over its self rapidly. Digital delay will do this too, but the tape delay
just has a different quality to it. Great effect for its time ranking up there with tape-phase shift.

[Sheriff John Stone]

The time has come. The time has come for Brian Wilson to sit down (literally) for an extended period of time (hours/days/weeks) and tell us - and the world! - everything he knows about SMiLE. Not because he has to, he doesn't have to do anything. But, because it is driving us crazy!

Seriously, I want somebody - David Anderle, David Leaf, Darian Sahanaja, Jeff Foskett, Scott Bennett, Joe Thomas, Van Dyke Parks, Don Was, Alan Boyd, or a player to be named later - to sit down with Brian and have Brian tell everything he remembers about EVERY song he worked on during the SMiLE era. They can film it and market it, I don't care. The time is now; in a couple of years it will be too late. It should be done for historical purposes; the music is that important. Because of the cathartic and therapeutic benefits that came out of BWPS , Brian should be able to handle it. A comprehensive interview is all that is left. We got the boxed set, the re-recordings, and the concerts. What'd you say, Melin..., er, Brian?

[Tricycle Rider]

I finally got some time to do a quick edit of H&V similar to the acetate version that Andy described to see how it flowed, and even though it's a rough, I really enjoyed the sequence. Thanks for describing it for us all Andy!  

Here's the sequence:

1. "I've been in this town so long...The spanish and indian home of the H&V"
2. "Once at night...A dude'll do in a town full of H&V"
3  "Acapella break"
4. "Fresh thin air around my head...Great shape of the open country"
5. "My children were raised...Healthy, wealthy and often wise...Jive to survive with the H&V"
6. "Out in the Barnyard..."

I'd be happy to share this with anyone who wants to hear it, but I would need some help as I've never uploaded anything before.

EDIT: Here you go guys: http://theluvbyrds.wix.com/the-luvbyrds#!music/c2516

P.S. I put my preferred edit of "Barnyard" at the end because it didn't sound right to me stopping after the "Tape Explosion" so, just ignore it if you don't like it!  

[leggo of my ego]

I finally got some time to do a quick edit of H&V similar to the acetate version that Andy described to see how it flowed, and even though it's a rough, I really enjoyed the sequence. Thanks for describing it for us all Andy!  

Here's the sequence:

1. "I've been in this town so long...The spanish and indian home of the H&V"
2. "Once at night...A dude'll do in a town full of H&V"
3 "Acapella break"
4. "Fresh thin air around my head...Great shape of the open country"
5. "My children were raised...Healthy, wealthy and often wise...Jive to survive with the H&V"
6. "Out in the Barnyard..."

I'd be happy to share this with anyone who wants to hear it, but I would need some help as I've never uploaded anything before.

 

So if you were Bicycle Rider, you would still have "training wheels"? 

[Tricycle Rider]

YES!...Three is more fun than two! 

[leggo of my ego]

The time has come. The time has come for Brian Wilson to sit down (literally) for an extended period of time (hours/days/weeks) and tell us - and the world! - everything he knows about SMiLE. Not because he has to, he doesn't have to do anything. But, because it is driving us crazy!

Seriously, I want somebody - David Anderle, David Leaf, Darian Sahanaja, Jeff Foskett, Scott Bennett, Joe Thomas, Van Dyke Parks, Don Was, Alan Boyd, or a player to be named later - to sit down with Brian and have Brian tell everything he remembers about EVERY song he worked on during the SMiLE era. They can film it and market it, I don't care. The time is now; in a couple of years it will be too late. It should be done for historical purposes; the music is that important. Because of the cathartic and therapeutic benefits that came out of BWPS , Brian should be able to handle it. A comprehensive interview is all that is left. We got the boxed set, the re-recordings, and the concerts. What'd you say, Melin..., er, Brian?

Damn straight, Sheriff -- I wonder how much he could recall??

you know my mom is 79, sometimes she forgets my name but can remember details from the 1940's.

Maybe take him back to Western, put his feet in a sandbox and hand him some pie. thatd do the trick!

[Bicyclerider]

For me the rerecording of the verse and fade were attempts to redo the a side of the Heroes single.  It shows how Brian was losing focus and his judgment was impaired - I don't think anyone would consider the verse or fade remakes superior to the originals.  He's making progress on the b side and then decides to scrap the a side?  Indecision, lack of confidence, inability to complete anything - Smile was self destructing and Brian was in meltdown.  He should have stuck with the original IIGS/Barnyard version, I agree with others that the story is more linear and makes more sense than the cantina or the final single version.

[Chris Brown]

Really cool mix Tricycle Rider - I dig the Barnyard/Barnshine hybrid at the end.  Placing IIGS in the middle is a bit jarring for me - I think it's because the instrumentation doesn't flow.  Cantina flows with what comes before it and what goes after.  Maybe that's why I've always preferred that mix to all others.  It all works together, although I think that if edited correctly, there's a version out there with IIGS and Barnyard that works in a different way, like a series of vignettes rather than one cohesive statement.  I don't really agree with the notion that such a version is more linear than the Cantina version.

I'd love to see that too Sheriff but sadly I doubt we ever will - Brian is probably sick to death of talking about Smile.  The time to do that would have been when the box was released.  It's too bad too, because as others have said he would probably remember quite a bit if he was in a relaxed setting with some of the people who were around him during the Smile era. 

[Al Jardine: Pick Up Artist]

IIGS works better if there's a bit of a gap before it, and there's no piano lead-in, and-wait for it-it fades out TSS style!

Regardless, I don't think that's the final version. I don't think there is a final version. Not the exploding cantina, not Smiley, not BWPS. H&V as it was intended for SMiLE or the original single (ok, maybe that) was never finished, and it never will be. To me.

[Tricycle Rider]

The time has come. The time has come for Brian Wilson to sit down (literally) for an extended period of time (hours/days/weeks) and tell us - and the world! - everything he knows about SMiLE. Not because he has to, he doesn't have to do anything. But, because it is driving us crazy!

Seriously, I want somebody - David Anderle, David Leaf, Darian Sahanaja, Jeff Foskett, Scott Bennett, Joe Thomas, Van Dyke Parks, Don Was, Alan Boyd, or a player to be named later - to sit down with Brian and have Brian tell everything he remembers about EVERY song he worked on during the SMiLE era. They can film it and market it, I don't care. The time is now; in a couple of years it will be too late. It should be done for historical purposes; the music is that important. Because of the cathartic and therapeutic benefits that came out of BWPS , Brian should be able to handle it. A comprehensive interview is all that is left. We got the boxed set, the re-recordings, and the concerts. What'd you say, Melin..., er, Brian?

That's my dream right there Sheriff...I WISH someone would do something like this...And I'd like to see Al Jardine there too. Just sit them all down with all the pieces loaded into a laptop, some steaks, some deserts and some wine, and get them talking!