Beach Boys vs Beatles in the same years

[vintagemusic]

CSNY?  Once reasonable voices in search of some decent songs. Saw Crosby and Nash the other week.  People who harp on about Brian and Mike's poor voices ought to listen to those two...

Oh come now, those first two albums were about as good as it gets, (in search of some good songs) come on man.
I mean of course Crosby Stills and Nash 69, and Deja Vu 70.

And they all did some good stuff before that as Byrds, or Buffalo Springfield or Hollies.
That's why I include them on a short list of the all time greats. Those two albums are
about as good as albums get.

Yes saying SMiLE makes Brian Wilson the actual or new baby in the manger, is an oversimplification.
however, My God what a cutting edge album. Arguably the best rock album ever done. Or pop or whatever
you want to call it.

Personally I also happen to believe that when comparing these albums against each other, the non album
singles and B sides should be included with the corresponding album. The non album nature of these singles
was largely a marketing strategy by record companies , and the work should be included while making qualitative
measurements and comparisons. I mean Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane were intended for Sgt Pepper, when
one includes those two songs in a comparison of Pepper versus SMiLE, you may choose to give SMiLE the win
(as I did) but man, think how strong Pepper actually is when you include those two.

What I'm saying is, define the criteria a little more if you really want to make comparisons. It's impossible measuring
these albums against each other, theyr'e approaching fifty years old and we are talking about them, I think that indicates
the artistic merit of both bands and both albums.

As far as the Beach Boys ability to play on record, thats probably true, but you either did or you didin't. Maybe Lennon
could have made another five solo albums by 1980, but he didin't. Maybe Harrison could have written more great Beatles
songs, but he didin't. Maybe Carl Wilson could have written more great songs, but he didin't.

Are we judginig what could have occured, or what actually did occur. You see my point, a lot of these comments are about
the potential of what might have been , instead of what actually was.

[runnersdialzero]

Yes saying SMiLE makes Brian Wilson the actual or new baby in the manger, is an oversimplification.
however, My God what a cutting edge album.

I never said it wasn't, I was saying noname's statement is somewhat strange and either oversimplifies or ignores many things. Also saying I didn't agree with it at all, but to each his own etc. etc. etc.

As far as the Beach Boys ability to play on record, thats probably true, but you either did or you didin't. Maybe Lennon
could have made another five solo albums by 1980, but he didin't. Maybe Harrison could have written more great Beatles
songs, but he didin't. Maybe Carl Wilson could have written more great songs, but he didin't.

Are we judginig what could have occured, or what actually did occur. You see my point, a lot of these comments are about
the potential of what might have been , instead of what actually was.

No - you're talking about them not playing on some Beach Boys albums. However, I'm strictly talking about their actual ability as musicians. Again, extremely talented musicians, and likely just as good a band, technically speaking, as The Beatles ever were. Still, I could give a f*ck less who "rocked" harder. Not what music is about, to me.

[Smilin Ed H]

"Oh come now, those first two albums were about as good as it gets, (in search of some good songs) come on man.
I mean of course Crosby Stills and Nash 69, and Deja Vu 70."

 We'll have to agree to differ.

[Alan Smith]

Yes saying SMiLE makes Brian Wilson the actual or new baby in the manger, is an oversimplification.
however, My God what a cutting edge album.

I never said it wasn't, I was saying noname's statement is somewhat strange and either oversimplifies or ignores many things. Also saying I didn't agree with it at all, but to each his own etc. etc. etc.

Yeah, that was a really sloppy post on my behalf.  What I should have said, in the spirit of personal opinion, when it comes to Beatles v BB's, the Smile Sessions release has really changed the game.

Fan gripes aside, I think the material presented (I'm talkin' disc 1) has provided the recordings with a coherence and direction (sonic and historical) previously lacking in the scant official releases and myriad various boots.

It's provided a better context to the Smile Sessions and how they fit in to the overall BB oeuvre - I now listen to the post Smile Sesh albums differently, and I think we can now see clear(er) links back to the pre recordings, especially PS; which reminds me of a Terry Melcher quote where he could connect Good Vibes to Surfin' USA (from the Tom Nolan Article of many years ago)

And it's altered my feelings towards Pepper and post (Smile Sessions better), and I hope that's not just me.

All of which means that Brian W's already stellar esteem is set to go Universal, what with Smile well and truly out there and the 50th anniversary items around the corner.

[vintagemusic]

Yes SMiLE has given me an increased appreciation for Brian Wilson's talent, and comparing
him to the Beatles.

Comparisons are so hard, but when I listen to the first 19 tracks on disc one of the Smile Sessions
To me I am just hearing this great album period. I am not thinking about how the actual sequence
might have been different, or how this song didn't get a lead vocal.

I mean Pepper you could say the same thing, The album was supposed to have Penny Lane and
Strawberry Fields included. But EMI intervened and requested a non album single for Xmas 66
and so, only for that reason, the songs didn't make the album

So all albums could have been different, mine yours theirs. But when we listen to whats there, and
if anything I am biased towards favoring the Beatles, but I vote for SmiLe and Pet Sounds as being
the two best albums ever done right now. Its so very cool to finally have SMiLE and the extent of
what Wilson was reaching for musically in 66 is , my jaw just sags, and I think Oh My God, he did this
in 1966 on four track machines? 

Then As Wilson begins to fade creatively, and the other Beach Boys pick up the slack, it was really good
stuff, but not as good. And its different Beach Boys running the band and writing, so the name says Beach Boys
but its I mean Holland is almost like a different group, and the Beatles no longer exist at that point.

But if we look at the Beatles solo output in the early to mid seventies, if we imagine all those hit songs if
they had recorded that as "The Beatles" they would have continued to blow everybody else away for another
several years I think.

I dig both groups, and I dig the Beach Boys much more after studying, and listening to stuff in the last few years
and With SMILE they even surpass the Beatles at their peak, what higher compliment can be paid ?

But Yeah SMiLE all assembled into a proper album in good fidelity has opened my eyes and I cant believe how
good the material, arrangements, cutting edge production ideas I just can't believe it.

Sgt Pepper is so English, and SMiLE so American, and they were (both groups) competitive and The British Invasion
kept exceeding the American Bands, and now in Retrospect, the quintessentially American SMiLE, trumps Pepper for
genius  just fab

[Newguy562]

Yes SMiLE has given me an increased appreciation for Brian Wilson's talent, and comparing
him to the Beatles.

Comparisons are so hard, but when I listen to the first 19 tracks on disc one of the Smile Sessions
To me I am just hearing this great album period. I am not thinking about how the actual sequence
might have been different, or how this song didn't get a lead vocal.

I mean Pepper you could say the same thing, The album was supposed to have Penny Lane and
Strawberry Fields included. But EMI intervened and requested a non album single for Xmas 66
and so, only for that reason, the songs didn't make the album

So all albums could have been different, mine yours theirs. But when we listen to whats there, and
if anything I am biased towards favoring the Beatles, but I vote for SmiLe and Pet Sounds as being
the two best albums ever done right now. Its so very cool to finally have SMiLE and the extent of
what Wilson was reaching for musically in 66 is , my jaw just sags, and I think Oh My God, he did this
in 1966 on four track machines? 

Then As Wilson begins to fade creatively, and the other Beach Boys pick up the slack, it was really good
stuff, but not as good. And its different Beach Boys running the band and writing, so the name says Beach Boys
but its I mean Holland is almost like a different group, and the Beatles no longer exist at that point.

But if we look at the Beatles solo output in the early to mid seventies, if we imagine all those hit songs if
they had recorded that as "The Beatles" they would have continued to blow everybody else away for another
several years I think.

I dig both groups, and I dig the Beach Boys much more after studying, and listening to stuff in the last few years
and With SMILE they even surpass the Beatles at their peak, what higher compliment can be paid ?

But Yeah SMiLE all assembled into a proper album in good fidelity has opened my eyes and I cant believe how
good the material, arrangements, cutting edge production ideas I just can't believe it.

Sgt Pepper is so English, and SMiLE so American, and they were (both groups) competitive and The British Invasion
kept exceeding the American Bands, and now in Retrospect, the quintessentially American SMiLE, trumps Pepper for
genius  just fab

sgt. pepper would've been more amazing if it had penny lane and stawberry fields. and smile woud've been even more amazing if child is the father of the man,look,holiday and i love to say dada had lead vocals :]

[Puggal]

This comparison is kind of unfair; it is obvious to all that The Beatles made much better albums than The Beach Boys did. Not only do the Beatles have the quintessential rock masterpiece (Sgt. Pepper) but made many more albums, particularly in later years, that rank highly in critics' polls of the best albums of all time. The Beach Boys have well... Pet Sounds and... Pet Sounds. I personally prefer Pet Sounds to every Beatles album, but that's just one album. The SMiLE Sessions do not  really count as an album, in my opinion. Half of the material on the approximated album are unfinished scraps with vocals flown in from demos and  other odd sources. The "real" Smile, in my opinion, is the one Brian Wilson recorded in 2004.

I enjoy albums such as Smiley Smile and Wild Honey very much. But to compare those rather slight and badly produced albums with the heavily orchestrated and masterfully sequenced albums made by the Fabs is completely unfair.

[Reverend Rock]

Really, with the one exception of Pet Sounds, the Beatles own this competition, far as I'm concerned.  By the time the Beach Boys got themselves together for the next inarguably great album (Sunflower), the Beatles had already hung it up and all gone solo.

I'm not considering the SMiLE Sessions in my response, because they simply didn't exist in any released form at that time.  That said, I think that if a finished and released '67 SMiLE had been as good as my LP length fan mix or better, it would get my vote over Sgt. Pepper.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

It's a fun question which band is better during the sixties.
But there is no absolute or real answer. It cant be answered
not really.

I'd say the Beatles overall, because they were more diverse.
But many especially here, will disagree.

I was going to disagree that the Beatles were more diverse. In the 60s that may be true with songs such as Helter Skelter, Revolution 9, Within You Without You and Tomorrow Never Knows. The Beach Boys were quite diverse themselves with All I Want to Do, Pet Sounds (song), Woody Wood Pecker's Symphony and Diamond Head.

[Jukka]

I can't help it, to me Beach Boys win each year! Though 1968 is probably a tie... What the hell, I'll give that one to the moptops, but other than that it's all BB to me.

[JanBerryFarm]

It is obvious to all that The Beatles made much better albums than The Beach Boys did. IS IT ?
 
Not only do the Beatles have the quintessential rock masterpiece (Sgt. Pepper) but made many more albums, particularly in later years, that rank highly in critics' polls of the best albums of all time. The Beach Boys have well... Pet Sounds and... Pet Sounds. I personally prefer Pet Sounds to every Beatles album, but that's just one album. The SMiLE Sessions do not  really count as an album, in my opinion. Half of the material on the approximated album are unfinished scraps with vocals flown in from demos and  other odd sources. The "real" Smile, in my opinion, is the one Brian Wilson recorded in 2004.

You seem conflicted.

How do you figure that the Beatles made MANY more albums? They failed in 1970.

[Sunflowerpet]

Early 63:Surfing USA vs Please Please Me = PLEASE PLEASE ME
late 63: Little Douce Coupe vs With the Beatles = LITTLE DEUCE COUPE
Early 64: Shut Down II vs Meet the Beatles = MEET THE BEATLES
mid 64: All Summer Long vs Hard Days Night = ALL SUMMER LONG
late 64: Christmas LP vs Beatles for Sale = BEATLES FOR SALE
mid 65: Today and SDSN vs Help! = TODAY & SD(&SN)
late 65: Party vs Rubber Soul = RUBBER SOUL
mid 66: Pet Sounds vs Revolver = PET SOUNDS
mid 67: SMiLE sessions vs Sgt Pepper = SGT PEPPER'S (I like the finished albums)
late 67: Smiley Smile and Wild Honey vs Magical Mystery Tour  = MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR
68: Friends vs White Album = WHITE ALBUM
69: 20/20 vs Abbey Road = 20/20 (I think that Abbey Road is one of the most overated albums of all the time IMHO)
70: Sunflower vs Let it Be = SUNFLOWER

[EgoHanger1966]

Early 63:Surfing USA vs Please Please Me = PLEASE PLEASE ME
late 63: Little Douce Coupe vs With the Beatles = WITH THE BEATLES
Early 64: Shut Down II vs Meet the Beatles = MEET THE BEATLES
mid 64: All Summer Long vs Hard Days Night = HDN
late 64: Christmas LP vs Beatles for Sale = BEATLES FOR SALE
mid 65: Today and SDSN vs Help! = HELP
late 65: Party vs Rubber Soul = RUBBER SOUL
mid 66: Pet Sounds vs Revolver = PET SOUNDS
mid 67: SMiLE sessions vs Sgt Pepper = SMILE SESSIONS
late 67: Smiley Smile and Wild Honey vs Magical Mystery Tour  = TIE
68: Friends vs White Album = FRIENDS
69: 20/20 vs Abbey Road = TIE
70: Sunflower vs Let it Be = SUNFLOWER

[Newguy562]

It's great to see that beach boys fans are being honest and admitting that the Beatles have some amazing records.
The worst thing is when people try to go against the Beatles because they are so popular or praised so highly...good music is good music.

[SamMcK]

It's great to see that beach boys fans are being honest and admitting that the Beatles have some amazing records.
The worst thing is when people try to go against the Beatles because they are so popular or praised so highly...good music is good music.

Couldn't agree more.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Early 63:Surfing USA vs Please Please Me = PLEASE PLEASE ME
late 63: Little Douce Coupe vs With the Beatles = WITH THE BEATLES
Early 64: Shut Down II vs Meet the Beatles = MEET THE BEATLES
mid 64: All Summer Long vs Hard Days Night = HDN
late 64: Christmas LP vs Beatles for Sale = BEATLES FOR SALE
mid 65: Today and SDSN vs Help! = HELP
late 65: Party vs Rubber Soul = RUBBER SOUL
mid 66: Pet Sounds vs Revolver = PET SOUNDS
mid 67: SMiLE sessions vs Sgt Pepper = SMILE SESSIONS
late 67: Smiley Smile and Wild Honey vs Magical Mystery Tour  = TIE
68: Friends vs White Album = FRIENDS
69: 20/20 vs Abbey Road = TIE
70: Sunflower vs Let it Be = SUNFLOWER

I agree with these 100%

[Newguy562]

It's great to see that beach boys fans are being honest and admitting that the Beatles have some amazing records.
The worst thing is when people try to go against the Beatles because they are so popular or praised so highly...good music is good music.

Couldn't agree more.

[EgoHanger1966]

Early 63:Surfing USA vs Please Please Me = PLEASE PLEASE ME
late 63: Little Douce Coupe vs With the Beatles = WITH THE BEATLES
Early 64: Shut Down II vs Meet the Beatles = MEET THE BEATLES
mid 64: All Summer Long vs Hard Days Night = HDN
late 64: Christmas LP vs Beatles for Sale = BEATLES FOR SALE
mid 65: Today and SDSN vs Help! = HELP
late 65: Party vs Rubber Soul = RUBBER SOUL
mid 66: Pet Sounds vs Revolver = PET SOUNDS
mid 67: SMiLE sessions vs Sgt Pepper = SMILE SESSIONS
late 67: Smiley Smile and Wild Honey vs Magical Mystery Tour  = TIE
68: Friends vs White Album = FRIENDS
69: 20/20 vs Abbey Road = TIE
70: Sunflower vs Let it Be = SUNFLOWER

I agree with these 100%

I think if singles were pitted against each other, I'd end up choosing the Beach Boys more often than I did for the albums. Not to say that the Beach Boys were a singles act only....

[OneEar/OneEye]

One of the great things about this era of music is the array of different artists/performers who sprung up at about the same time, influenced and inspired one another, yet were really not alike.  For all the influence the Beatles and Beach Boys may have had on one another - they each did their own thing with it.   To me they're like bookends.  They sit side by side just fine, and often compliment one another beautifully.  Had Smile come out originally as scheduled/intended I think it would have been fantastic but Peppers would still have been fantastic too.   Those two albums are of a similar idea perhaps, but they are nothing alike.    They each achieved amazing things in completely different ways.   That's true for the other records they each released too.  They're the yin and yang of pop.  they go together in harmony.  Like apple pie and ice cream.  Hot dogs and buns.  Apples and oranges.  

[Mike's Beard]

It's great to see that beach boys fans are being honest and admitting that the Beatles have some amazing records.
The worst thing is when people try to go against the Beatles because they are so popular or praised so highly...good music is good music.

Good music is good music, but an overrated band is still an overrated band.

[Newguy562]

It's great to see that beach boys fans are being honest and admitting that the Beatles have some amazing records.
The worst thing is when people try to go against the Beatles because they are so popular or praised so highly...good music is good music.

Good music is good music, but an overrated band is still an overrated band.

you're right u2 are overrated  

[Mike's Beard]

Nope U2 just plain suck - The Beatles are overrated.

[Catbirdman]

Yes SMiLE has given me an increased appreciation for Brian Wilson's talent, and comparing
him to the Bea<snip>
<snip>

I mean Pepp<snip>
<snip, snip, snip>But Yeah SMiLE all ass<snip>

<snippety snip-snip>
Sgt Pepper is so <snip>quintessentially American SMiLE, trumps Pepper for
genius  just fab

Ah, good old vintagemusic. (sniff, sniff) We barely knew ye.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Nope U2 just plain suck - The Beatles are overrated.

Same with Shakespeare, Mozart, Michelangelo.

[OneEar/OneEye]

well sure - naturally the beatles are the apple, and the beach boys the orange      
i enjoy both fruits, and find they often go well together