BWPS - The Final Verdict

[the captain]

Nice post.

[TheLazenby]

Wow, that's the first time I've ever heard someone call the extended "Bicycle Rider" scary.

The most effective usage of that section was an edit (which may have originated from the GV box "Sections", though it was properly connected to the song in the Odeon 'Smile' boot) that ended 'part 1' (after "...often wise" and the reverb whistle) with the clip-clop harmonica, the solo flutter horn, and then the extended Bicycle Rider.  All of the strength of the previous energetic few minutes just slowly drifts away into an echoey void of lonely reverberating instruments, suddenly exploding into that bassy "boom boom boom boom" of the BR theme.

Even though the so-called "official edit" of Part 1 ends with 'False Barnyard' instead of the clip-clop harmonica, I wonder if Brian did intend for "Bicycle Rider" to be used as an interlude between the two H&V halves somehow.

[Bean Bag]

You don't think it's spooky?  Man...that track is crazy scary!!  I do love it...actually I think it's one of the more intensely brilliant pieces, along with the H&V fade out tag from the Alt Mix.  Two of my favorite SMiLE nuggets -- that ironically didn't make it to BWPS.  And the fade out to Vegatables too!!  

[lance]

I definitely find it kind of spooky. There are spooky parts all over the smile music, but that's the most.

Spooky, that is.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

I always found the majority of the SMiLE music to be darker than anything Brian had done before. One of the 'scariest' parts for me is the end of 'Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine'. That long, descending, warped cello note.  Yikes!

[The Shift]

Reading Dennis Moore's post, it strikes me that there are two SMiLEs (bleedin' obvious I know!) -  the darker, experimental 66/67, and the children's song that is BWPS 03/04. The whole thing was brightened for 03/04 into a sunny outing for youngsters.

However we can only accept it as such because the darker 66/67 version paved the way and prepared us, warned us ahead of time -  at least for those of us fortunate enough to have heard so much of it. Bells & Whistles/H&V intro/All Day/Worms/Wonderful/Cabinessence/Fire ... they all have a dark edge, which had changed completely for 03/04's BWPS.

[Jason]

One thing I did forget to mention...

What the hell are these "Roll Plymouth Rock", "Song For Children", "In Blue Hawaii" sunshine pop bullshit titles on BWPS? Yes, I know the famous story - Melinda found the original titles "weird". But still...

Mere nitpicking...

[OneEar/OneEye]

One thing I did forget to mention...

What the hell are these "Roll Plymouth Rock", "Song For Children", "In Blue Hawaii" sunshine pop bullmerda titles on BWPS? Yes, I know the famous story - Melinda found the original titles "weird". But still...

Mere nitpicking...

So the titles were changed because Melinda didn't like them? 
What's weird about "Look"  or "I Ran" as a title?   

[Jason]

I would argue, too, that there's no consistency! If Do You Like Worms, Look, and I Love To Say Da Da are too weird, then I guess it's only by trolling the internet or having more than a third-grade history education (increasingly rare in our times) that anyone would know that Mrs. O'Leary's Cow is about fire. Otherwise, most likely, to the unlearned listener, it's like "what the f*** is this cow song?"

[BJL]

One thing I did forget to mention...

What the hell are these "Roll Plymouth Rock", "Song For Children", "In Blue Hawaii" sunshine pop bullmerda titles on BWPS? Yes, I know the famous story - Melinda found the original titles "weird". But still...

Mere nitpicking...

I have no way whatsoever of knowing this for sure, but my gut tells me that "do you dig worms" would not have been the title of "roll plymouth rock" in 1966 had Brian finished it...i know its on Carl's list, but Carl's list doesn't seem like the be all and end all to me, and "do you dig worms" reminds me a lot of "run james run" and "and then we'll have world peace," those other famously dropped titles.  Roll Plymouth rock actually has a very straightforward lyric, and while the working title clearly reflects brian's humor, it doesn't seem like the kind of thing that would have made the finished record.  again, just gut instinct.  likewise, look and love to say da da especially are clearly working titles, awaiting real titles to come once the lyrics were written...at least one of which we got (cool cool water) although i know thats a debatable point too.

[BJL]

also, "song for children" just sounds like such a Brian title to me, especially later-day brian. 

[A Million Units In Jan!]

And I'd like to know where the hell the 'Dig' part of worms comes from. 'Do You Like Worms' is all I've ever heard it called, except in LLVS-which means that there's less than a 50% chance that it's true.

[OneEar/OneEye]

Do You Like Worms is a great title.  The song is all about digging into the past and uncovering the "worms" of manifest destiny.   I think in 66/67 it would have remained the title.  As well, I think Da Da would have retained that title, especially as it, like Mr's O'Leary's Cow, wasn't an actual listed title, but part of The Elements. 
I would agree though that Look/I Ran could have been simply place holding titles.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I have no way whatsoever of knowing this for sure, but my gut tells me that "do you dig worms" would not have been the title of "roll plymouth rock" in 1966 had Brian finished it...i know its on Carl's list, but Carl's list doesn't seem like the be all and end all to me

Carl's list...That could open up another can of worms (pun intended). Anyway, I also wondered if "Do You Like/Dig Worms" would've made the song title cut. But, I seem to recall that Frank Holmes did some art work for it. I have this mental picture of a worm sticking his head up....

I actually thought "Look" was a legitimate title. The song always reminded me of someone watching the sun, rising over the horizon, and then seeing something, maybe an island, or land - and saying/yelling "Look!" I was VERY surprised when it resurfaced as a song for children. Still am, actually...

[Bean Bag]

Do You Like Worms.  Let alone the title, I never thought the "song" would have made it!  It just sounded so...odd.  Sparse...or something.  There's the nice verse part with the drums pounding "boom, boom, boom-boom-boom"....but then it just switches back to the H&V piano thingy.

 

When I first heard that...I said....."nooooo, noooo that's not right."  Seriously...could that have actually been a track?  Noooo.

Of course now it's like the ultimate SMiLE song to me.  But still...I can easily "dig" up those "WTF" feelings I had when I first heard it.  Is that really what he intended??

[TheLazenby]

Nice to see a discussion on the previous page about the changed titles... though I was introduced to BWPS first (I wasn't a Beach Boys fan at the time), when I became hooked on 1966-67 Smile, the changed titles started to bug me.  I especially hate it when fans (like Purple Chick) refer to the original versions by their BWPS titles.

I will never, ever, EVER refer to the third song on Smile as "Roll Plymouth Rock".  That song is "Do You Like Worms".  Period.  Besides, MELINDA, "Do You Like Worms" and "I Love To Say Da Da" were already released WITH THOSE TITLES on the boxed set!  That's what the public knew them as!

[Chris Brown]

Nice to see a discussion on the previous page about the changed titles... though I was introduced to BWPS first (I wasn't a Beach Boys fan at the time), when I became hooked on 1966-67 Smile, the changed titles started to bug me.  I especially hate it when fans (like Purple Chick) refer to the original versions by their BWPS titles.

I will never, ever, EVER refer to the third song on Smile as "Roll Plymouth Rock".  That song is "Do You Like Worms".  Period.  Besides, MELINDA, "Do You Like Worms" and "I Love To Say Da Da" were already released WITH THOSE TITLES on the boxed set!  That's what the public knew them as!

I'm totally with you...I can't stand the new titles.  There was something so inherently cool about listening to a song called "Do You Like Worms."  I first read about Smile in Brian's "autobiography," and the titles made me even more curious to hear the music.  You can't help but be intrigued by a song called "I Love To Say Da Da."  Maybe they wouldn't have turned out to be the actual titles, but I don't think Brian would have come up with lame ones like the titles used on BWPS.  Sorry, but "Song For Children" is a  weak title, even if it does relate to the subject matter of the song. 

Just another example of the destruction of Smile's inherent "weirdness" on BWPS.

[BJL]

Do You Like Worms.  Let alone the title, I never thought the "song" would have made it!  It just sounded so...odd.  Sparse...or something.  There's the nice verse part with the drums pounding "boom, boom, boom-boom-boom"....but then it just switches back to the H&V piano thingy.

 

When I first heard that...I said....."nooooo, noooo that's not right."  Seriously...could that have actually been a track?  Noooo.

Of course now it's like the ultimate SMiLE song to me.  But still...I can easily "dig" up those "WTF" feelings I had when I first heard it.  Is that really what he intended??

which of course brings us to perhaps the most bone chilling quote in the history of al jardine; on hearing the boxset version... "that's not 'do you like worms!'

I can't remember where i heard that...

[runnersdialzero]

Bruce was referring to "Worms" as "Plymouth Rock" as early as the late 70s. "Roll Plymouth Rock" could very well be a valid title just as "Do You Like Worms?" was.

Just the same, titles like "Worms" and "Da Da" could have easily been working titles or temporary titles. I seem to think it was said somewhere that "Worms" WAS a working title, although I'm not sure on that.

We also don't know what changes Smile underwent in Brian's head over time. I don't care who you are, art is never finished, only temporarily abandoned. Especially something truly abandoned like Smile - anyone who does that, even if they never intend to revisit it, still remembers those things and still gets more ideas, new ideas for related material, even if they never talk about it or ever put it to tape.

[the captain]

Dig was the better title. That said, I don't really care about the titles.

[Jason]

which of course brings us to perhaps the most bone chilling quote in the history of al jardine; on hearing the boxset version... "that's not 'do you like worms!'

I can't remember where i heard that...

Yeah, I've referenced that quote before - it seems to imply that possibly Holidays is the real Worms, considering how BWPS had the "rock, rock, roll Plymouth rock" refrain, but who knows?

At this rate, considering how much Brian most likely forgot, I'm quite inclined to take Al's comment as having some ground to it.

[armona]

Do You Like Worms.  Let alone the title, I never thought the "song" would have made it!  It just sounded so...odd.  Sparse...or something.  There's the nice verse part with the drums pounding "boom, boom, boom-boom-boom"....but then it just switches back to the H&V piano thingy.

 

When I first heard that...I said....."nooooo, noooo that's not right."  Seriously...could that have actually been a track?  Noooo.

Of course now it's like the ultimate SMiLE song to me.  But still...I can easily "dig" up those "WTF" feelings I had when I first heard it.  Is that really what he intended??

which of course brings us to perhaps the most bone chilling quote in the history of al jardine; on hearing the boxset version... "that's not 'do you like worms!'

I can't remember where i heard that...

Wow. Never heard that one. Penny for his thoughts, and then some. That version on the boxset does sound creepy during the chorus--the notes used and the sterile way in which it's recorded. Its incomplete state just adds to that feel.

[Runaways]

i love BWPS.  i love the original sessions.  To fully enjoy both, i need both.  they play off each other.  i didn't listen to BWPS until i started listening to all the versions, mainly the PC one. 

and do you like worms has always struck me as a dumb title. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

which of course brings us to perhaps the most bone chilling quote in the history of al jardine; on hearing the boxset version... "that's not 'do you like worms!'

I can't remember where i heard that...

Yeah, I've referenced that quote before - it seems to imply that possibly Holidays is the real Worms, considering how BWPS had the "rock, rock, roll Plymouth rock" refrain, but who knows?

At this rate, considering how much Brian most likely forgot, I'm quite inclined to take Al's comment as having some ground to it.

Somebody has to write a book, compiling all of the interviews/articles concerning the recording of BWPS - so I can reference IT - instead of relying on my memory of the various interviews I read six years ago. Anyway, here goes - again...

I thought I read that the "rock, rock, roll Plymouth Rock roll over" on the BWPS "On A Holiday" was an idea that was added in 2004.

If the song "Do You Like Worms" on the boxed set isn't "Do You Like Worms", and is another song, then what song IS "Do You Like Worms" from the boxed set? Why has nobody else - and there were/are many who heard the track - come forward with this claim? Al Jardine, the "normal" Beach Boy, strikes again!

[BJL]

Somebody has to write a book, compiling all of the interviews/articles concerning the recording of BWPS - so I can reference IT - instead of relying on my memory of the various interviews I read six years ago. Anyway, here goes - again...

I thought I read that the "rock, rock, roll Plymouth Rock roll over" on the BWPS "On A Holiday" was an idea that was added in 2004.

If the song "Do You Like Worms" on the boxed set isn't "Do You Like Worms", and is another song, then what song IS "Do You Like Worms" from the boxed set? Why has nobody else - and there were/are many who heard the track - come forward with this claim? Al Jardine, the "normal" Beach Boy, strikes again!

the way i understood the quote wasn't that Do You Like Worms was supposed to be a different song altogether, but that Al was implying that something was missing from his understanding of the song...a lead vocal, a missing section; maybe brian had played the song for him on the piano with a totally different feel, or an acetate had been given to him with a whole nother set of vocal harmonies, something like that, where the song on the box set was missing something really important, and al's response was like "this isn't the worms I remember."

I ran a google search for smiley smile message board references to al jardine and worms, and found this quote:


Al Jardine: “This [“a very Hawaiian-influenced track, sung in Hawaiian, no less” – Tracy Thomas] is by far the best thing we’ve ever done! Everything - the music, lyrics, singing, background - everything is perfect. “  Dec 17 1966

So this quote: 1) the interjection of presumably the interviewer that the song is in hawaiian that al jardine was saying this while playing an acetate for a reporter am i miss enterpreting that?
2) Do you dig worms is a lot of things, stunning, beautiful, mysterious, but perfect?  al jardine perfect?  it's comments like me that make me think something is still missing from our conception of smile, no matter how "complete" our understanding now seems.