BWPS - The Final Verdict

[Zenobi]

Ok.

Preferring TSS to BWPS, ok. For what it's worth, I prefer TSS myself.

Literally hating on BWPS like too many did in this rather obnoxious thread? No way. Simply unacceptable. Look at my Voltaire quote... some "fans" are anything but that.

As Rab said, this is should NOT be controversial.

[Julia]

With all due respect, and at risk of poking the hornet's nest, I think the final word is with the fans. The fans decide what will live on and what the reputation of art will be. I think that's the case with everything.

[SMiLE]

My philosophy on TSS vs. BWPS is basically the same as with the Star Wars Special Editions. It is whatever the original creator says it is. In his lifetime Brian seemed to be leaning more toward BWPS as the finished product so I will defer to him.

[rab2591]

Last year, an absolutely beautiful AI edit of ‘Thank Him’ was released by Dae Lims. I prefer it over the original by tenfold. The AI edit on Youtube, while not 100% Brian’s original work, is already on track to overtake the original vintage version (uploaded 12 years ago) in views. Which would arguably indicate that the AI edit is better received and more sonically pleasing than the original (at least to fans on YouTube).

So yes, the fans do decide what they want to hear and what stands the test of time. That being said, in 100 years, if the vintage recording is forgotten but the AI version is still trucking along, that still doesn’t make the AI version definitively Brian Wilson’s.

Now, does that have any bearing on whether TSS or BWPS will live on into the future? I guess the point is that, yes the fans have control what they listen to, but their listening habits should not dictate what is or isn’t a definitive work of the artist. I mean, let’s say SMiLE AD is the only version of Smile that is remembered in the year 2,433AD, it would still not be a “definitive” Brian Wilson Smile (in the legal or abstract sense).

Star Wars was brought up above, which is a great example - let’s say in 100 years that fans go back to solely watching the original Star Wars and the special editions are completely forgotten about. This doesn’t negate the fact that Lucas’s final stamp was on the special editions, thus making them definitive. The “legacy” may be in the fan’s hands, but that doesn’t erase the truth of the artist having claim over what they define as definitive (or final authority - keyword being “author” or the one who wrote the piece in question).

The name of the album is “Brian Wilson Presents Smile”. Brian Wilson being the creator/producer of the work, and Smile being his definitive version of the Smile material (hence, Brian Wilson stated numerous times that he had finally “completed” Smile). I am sure that to fans who refer to 62 year old Brian as  “an old man” may not have much respect for his authoritative position on the matter. But to the most of the rest of us, I think that Brian Wilson can and should lay claim to works that Brian Wilson creates.

And honestly, a lot of this fanbase (including myself) can be so hostile and negative at times, especially over the most wholesome things, that the idea we should have any authoritative say in what is or isn’t an album is absurd. I mean, I get the logic behind it, but again, I will take Brian’s final word over the fanbase’s opinion any day.

[rab2591]

I also want to add that I see both TSS and BWPS as definitive Smile material - as Brian signed off on both of them. Either of these albums winning a popularity contest really shouldn’t dictate what is or isn’t official/authoritative between the two of them. I personally see one sounding more like a beautiful sketchbook, and one being a colorful grand mural painting. Both have their place in the Beach Boys world, and I’m glad most people agree with that.

[Zenobi]

Right! I add that, really, SMiLE has two authors: Brian and Van Dyke. And both have agreed that BWPS is the completed SMiLE.

Now... is BWPS what a completed 1967 would have been? No, of course... but, see, sadly it was NOT completed in 1967.

Is BWPS better than the SMiLE Sessions? No, at least in my opinion, but it does not "delegitimate" BWPS. What I really don't like is the relentless attempt to delegitimate BWPS, which often has morphed into the attempt to delegitimate SMiLE as a fatally flawed project right from the start.

In fact, BWPS is victim of both the two "delegitimation" attempts regarding poor Brian: that of SMiLE, and that of Brian's solo career.

[SMiLE]

Is BWPS better than the SMiLE Sessions? No, at least in my opinion, but it does not "delegitimate" BWPS. What I really don't like is the relentless attempt to delegitimate BWPS, which often has morphed into the attempt to delegitimate SMiLE as a fatally flawed project right from the start.

I am legitimately curious has there been a legitimate fan-made attempt to graft the missing vocal parts from BWPS onto the 1967 tracks? I know it's technically "Cheating since it's not the "Beach Boys" but it would be a fascinating compromise.

[Julia]

Is BWPS better than the SMiLE Sessions? No, at least in my opinion, but it does not "delegitimate" BWPS. What I really don't like is the relentless attempt to delegitimate BWPS, which often has morphed into the attempt to delegitimate SMiLE as a fatally flawed project right from the start.

I am legitimately curious has there been a legitimate fan-made attempt to graft the missing vocal parts from BWPS onto the 1967 tracks? I know it's technically "Cheating since it's not the "Beach Boys" but it would be a fascinating compromise.

Isnt that what Purple Chick does? It's been a long time. Then bruiteur put vintage vocals on BWPS' instrumentation for SU.

I know BWPS has some instrumentals on Side 4 of the vinyl, right? But were a capella masters ever made available to the public? I dont think so.

Im gonna guess...no. And in the AI age, if we're comfortable using digital trickery to cheat, I vote we recreate 60s vocals instead, frankly.

[SMiLE]

Is BWPS better than the SMiLE Sessions? No, at least in my opinion, but it does not "delegitimate" BWPS. What I really don't like is the relentless attempt to delegitimate BWPS, which often has morphed into the attempt to delegitimate SMiLE as a fatally flawed project right from the start.

I am legitimately curious has there been a legitimate fan-made attempt to graft the missing vocal parts from BWPS onto the 1967 tracks? I know it's technically "Cheating since it's not the "Beach Boys" but it would be a fascinating compromise.

Isnt that what Purple Chick does? It's been a long time. Then bruiteur put vintage vocals on BWPS' instrumentation for SU.

I know BWPS has some instrumentals on Side 4 of the vinyl, right? But were a capella masters ever made available to the public? I dont think so.

Im gonna guess...no. And in the AI age, if we're comfortable using digital trickery to cheat, I vote we recreate 60s vocals instead, frankly.

No I mean use the instrumental tracks and existing vocals from TSS and overlay the missing vocal parts from BWPS onto them? In other words "Finished" versions of DYLW, Look, CIFOTM, I wanna Be around, Holidays and Dada/Blue Hawaii.

[Julia]

No I mean use the instrumental tracks and existing vocals from TSS and overlay the missing vocal parts from BWPS onto them? In other words "Finished" versions of DYLW, Look, CIFOTM, I wanna Be around, Holidays and Dada/Blue Hawaii.

To my knowledge no. I was trying to say, unless Im mistaken the raw materials to do so aren't there unless you're a virtuoso at isolating vocals. Now with the advent of AI allowing us to just use recreations of the BBs at their peak, I think there's probably less interest as well since that's not only easier but (I think many would say) preferable.