BWPS - The Final Verdict

[the captain]

To twist a phrase from that post, even if Brian's participation actually were minimal, I still don't know why one would be a hater. For me, if Brian did nothing other than what is clearly audibly him, it's not relevant. What would it mean, that they fudged the production credit and the storyline in the documentary? No surprise on either count. The end result sounds great to me.

[OneEar/OneEye]

Quibbles and bits.  I've got a few too, and they've all been expressed already so I won't go into it, but doesn't any one feel that no matter what - it's amazing the album exists at all?  Maybe it is or isn't SMILE, and maybe Brian's involvement was simply singing and saying yes or no to certain things, but so what?  He did all that work years ago, and in whatever configuration it is in today - it's still his work.  With some assistance at this point, fine, but it's still his.  I agree the sound of it isn't as good as the original tracks, and i wish he had not done all the lead vocals himself,and on and on and on...
But I still am amazed it's there, and though I don't listen to it as often as the original stuff, I occasionally do and can enjoy it for what it is, not for what it isn't.  And I don't believe, as some do, that it was solely done to cash-in, or revive a flagging career.  There may have been elements of that in there, but it seems to me care and pains were taken to honor the music itself.   
A big thing too is that seeing it live, you could see that Brian was thrilled, he was having a good time.  Not like when I saw him during his first solo tour, where he seemed completely uncomfortable.
Do I wish his wife and managers in '67 had said, "It's time to release Smile"?  You betcha!  But oh well...
In the end, it's not The Beach Boys Smile, it's BWPS, and as that I'm happy to have it.

[donald]

I think there was an  undercurrent of mystery to the original SMiLE material.  The unfinished masterpiece that sparked the imagination, led to endless discussion, speculation, pouring over snippets of tape, looking for "lost" segments or whole pieces liberated f rom a dusty corner of a vault, trying to imagine the sequencing, and scholarly discussions of the elements suite.   The legend overshadowed the music.  If Brian and Van Dyke had finished writing the material and it had been recorded by the Beachboys, and then shelved, it would not, could not have lived up to the hype that ensued over the years when it was not released.  So it comes as no surprise that BWPS was a disappointment to some.

Having said that, I have had the pleasure of being there for all of it.  I own the snippets, have the boots, and even a couple of my own SMiLE comps. 
It has been a fountain of pleasure...all of it.  The speculation, the essays, the bits released on 20/20, the Leonard Bernstein film, the story, the tragedy, the many Brian's back episodes, and finally the recording with Darian and company.   As someone said, "It's all good."l

[TdHabib]

Here we go with the quotes:

I guess you missed the question, so I post it again. It´s kind of important to me to know that:

In the SMiLE-booklet, Brian is credited with "music, vocals, keyboards". On which parts did he play the keys?

I don't recall.......but several sections throughout.

From a 2008 interview promoting TLOS:

Did Brian discuss with you the overall sonic sense he wanted for That Lucky Old Sun?
Not on this one. He did that pretty extensively when we recorded SMiLE.
What exactly did Brian want to hear on SMiLE?
We conceptualized doing it the way it was recorded in the ’60s. We did multitrack, but we put everybody in the same room [Studio One] at Sunset Sound, where Brian recorded some of the original SMiLE and Pet Sounds sessions. Brian felt like that room was an integral part of that piece, and that it would be better to cut it that way, rather than try to make it sound like that after the fact with extra reverb and the like. We even cut the strings and horns live, though they were in an isolation booth.
What does Brian listen for while his band is tracking?
A good take—and any obvious blunders. Some arrangement changes were made on the floor. This is something they had already played live as a 36-minute suite of songs at London’s Royal Festival Hall. Although this music had been performed, and we actually already recorded a live version at that point, once you get in the studio, things tend to change. SMiLE and That Lucky Old Sun were both put on their legs before we went in the studio. That is why we could cut this so quick. Everyone knew their parts.

[MBE]

It was the best that could be done at such a late date. Using the work lyrics for "Good Vibrations" was kind of silly (and petty) because it was a finished track in 1966.  I dislike the some of the new lyrics "hot as hell, "father of the sun" etc. Still it is a nicely done homage to the original tracks. It doesn't come close to the vintage material  but it was nice to hear a polished interpretation of the Smile work.

This doesn't really make a difference to me as far as quality goes but I feel that this was Darian's baby in some ways.  Brian was involved as much as he could be, he probably had the final say on things, but I don't think he would have done this on his own. In other words I don't think he woke up one day and said "I want to finish Smile". I look at him as a trouper really and he did the best he could. He easily could have blown it off but he didn't. He of course couldn't sing half as well as he did in his twenties, but he seemed to really try and I give him credit.

[Zack]

I knew we couldn't go 4 straight pages without the haters weighing in.   Maybe by page Six (!) they'll take over and the Blackboard consensus will be it blows chunks, Brian wasn't there and he didn't even participate, he phoned it in from home.  Cue: people closing their accounts in fury, etc.  330,000 CD buyers can (and must) be wrong.

Reminder: George Martin didn't attend every Beatles session;  Miles Davis would often leave the room while his band rehearsed his new compositions.  Simon and Garfunkel were on separate continents when Tom Wilson got the idea to put a rock band behind their original acoustic "Sounds of Silence."  They first heard it on the radio like everyone else did.

For those who think the live version is the only version worth hearing, of course you have the DVD of it.  Which is impressive, and comparable, being professionally made/sweetened.  Now if we're talking only about the BWPS LP/CD, then OK that doesn't count for this survey, but the option is there.

Maybe it's coincidence your post directly followed mine.  Personally, I'm not a hater and remember where I was the first time I heard BWPS (in the car five seconds after it came in the mail).  Had I been privileged enough to see one of the Smile shows, I probably would have wept like a baby.  It just doesn't wear as well as the original sessions.  How could it?

[Dove Nested Towers]

Don,

It is a great accomplishment but...I don't know...it just didn't do it for me; I still listen to the original material.

Ditto.

[Mike's Beard]

It was the best that could be done at such a late date. Using the work lyrics for "Good Vibrations" was kind of silly (and petty) because it was a finished track in 1966. 

WHY was this done? Was it to give the fans a suprise twist on an over familiar favourite, or was it done with the intention of being as a slap in the face to Mike?  IMO Tony Asher's originals are not a patch on what the Lovester came up with.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

It was the best that could be done at such a late date. Using the work lyrics for "Good Vibrations" was kind of silly (and petty) because it was a finished track in 1966. 

WHY was this done? Was it to give the fans a suprise twist on an over familiar favourite, or was it done with the intention of being as a slap in the face to Mike?  IMO Tony Asher's originals are not a patch on what the Lovester came up with.

To make it an entirely Beach Boy- free album.

[Andrew G. Doe]

IMO Tony Asher's originals are not a patch on what the Lovester came up with.

Well, of course they're not. They were only ever 'dummy' lyrics, kind of an aural placeholder until Tony came up with something a bit more polished.

[Mike's Beard]

Which brings me back to my original question of any idea why they were substituted for Asher's lyrics on BWPS?

[Nicko]

I would guess it was because they knew that if they did a straight remake that it would compare unfavourably with the single version. I doubt it was to keep Mike out of things because they had to give him a writing credit anyway obviously.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I would guess it was because they knew that if they did a straight remake that it would compare unfavourably with the single version. I doubt it was to keep Mike out of things because they had to give him a writing credit anyway obviously.

Right. Mike got a credit for it anyway. I guess that's how Brian Wilson wanted the finished SMiLE to be, with those lyrics. An artistic decision.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I would guess it was because they knew that if they did a straight remake that it would compare unfavourably with the single version. I doubt it was to keep Mike out of things because they had to give him a writing credit anyway obviously.

Right. Mike got a credit for it anyway. I guess that's how Brian Wilson wanted the finished SMiLE to be, with those lyrics. An artistic decision.

So Brian's 'artistic decision' was to use conspicuously inferior lyrics, huh ?

I don't know what you're doing, but I want some. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

I would guess it was because they knew that if they did a straight remake that it would compare unfavourably with the single version. I doubt it was to keep Mike out of things because they had to give him a writing credit anyway obviously.

Right. Mike got a credit for it anyway. I guess that's how Brian Wilson wanted the finished SMiLE to be, with those lyrics. An artistic decision.

So Brian's 'artistic decision' was to use conspicuously inferior lyrics, huh ?

I don't know what you're doing, but I want some. 

I thought you would be able to see through my sarcasm. You know, Brian "finishing" SMiLE, contributing something artistic, making the decison to throw out Mike's lyrics. 

[Dr. Tim]

I do not presume to correct Mr. Doe or anyone else but Brian did specifically say he used the Asher lyric (and added the hum-be-dum section) to make the Smile version of GV "different."  Which it does.  In the case of the Asher lyric, obviously a dodgy decision, though the lyric had already been published on the "sessions" excerpts.  And he only does that lyric when he does Smile.  Otherwise he sings the familiar lyric when it's done as a stand-alone song.  (Kept the hum-be-dum section, though - a good move)

It wasn't done to deny Mike a credit on the song - that couldn't happen, for a zillion reasons.

[Mike's Beard]

I love the hum de hum section on the GV sessions. To me "Good Vibrations" is as close to THE perfect pop song as you can get but I do wish this section had been added to the final mix in '66. I also like how the new version has a much longer ending as opposed to the orig fade out.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I do not presume to correct Mr. Doe or anyone else but Brian did specifically say he used the Asher lyric (and added the hum-be-dum section) to make the Smile version of GV "different."  Which it does.  In the case of the Asher lyric, obviously a dodgy decision, though the lyric had already been published on the "sessions" excerpts.  And he only does that lyric when he does Smile.  Otherwise he sings the familiar lyric when it's done as a stand-alone song.  (Kept the hum-be-dum section, though - a good move)

It wasn't done to deny Mike a credit on the song - that couldn't happen, for a zillion reasons.

Brian may have indeed said that. Doesn't mean it was his original idea. 

[b00ts]

Remember when Eugene Landy was talking about finishing SMiLe? Or when the Beach Boys were discussing finishing SMiLe around the time of Keepin' the Summer Alive? Thank Jeebus the album didn't end up with BW88 or KTSA - style production.

To me, BWPS is the authentic SMiLe and it blows my mind how accurately the group recreated the 1960s tracks.

[Jason]

Brian Wilson Presents Smile. BWPS. Brian's Master Plan. The final chapter, indeed, the final word in the Smile saga, written by the creator himself. 38 years in the making. A finished album? An attempt to present the music in a workable order given the available material? A needless cash grab? Brian's final "f*** you" to the Beach Boys after 38 years of bad feelings, guilt, and overall bad decision-making? The ultimate reclamation of Brian's art, soul, and spirit at a time when we all thought it was gone, possibly forever? The work whose creation apparently drove Brian very damn close to the hell he endured and lived in after he left the album unfinished and inherently stillborn? An insult to the band's legacy, Brian's legacy, and the fans who always wanted a completed Beach Boys Smile?

As all of the rhetorical questions above illustrate, this album and the events preceding and following it have had a storied relationship with yours truly.

I view Smile as the albatross. It began with good intentions - with Brian Wilson's ultimate desire to go beyond his boundaries and the boundaries of what "popular music" is defined as by its creators and by its fans. Brian wanted to blow minds. Brian wanted to scare people. Brian wanted to do something in the pop music field without interruption, apology, or regard for anyone's standards of what constituted art, be it high art, low art, pop art, you name it. Brian Wilson sought to make the ultimate statement in rock music. He aimed high, and he was prepared to work the time necessary to achieve his goals. He spent months writing his new songs with Van Dyke, meticulously producing, arranging, and recording them in the studio, and effectively devoted his energy wholesale to this new project. Brian was a thinker in 1966 - someone who wanted to find the answer, either in religion, in visuals, in Rhapsody In Blue, in the prevalent attitude of "expanding one's mind", or in the dark underside of occultism. Smile was to be his statement of what he deemed to be the unbiased, unequivical truth; the spirituality he felt in his mind.

Like all great thinkers who ravenously dig to get to the bottom of human nature, of thought and expression, Brian dug. And he dug some more. By the time it was all said and done, he had gone to places that ended up scaring him as opposed to the people he wanted to scare with his art. And Smile was what effectively scared him the most - his statement of the unbiased, unequivical truth was too much for his fragile conscience to handle. It was the musical record of his thinking process, and he feared that it would send out the wrong message to his family, his fans, and everyone else who expected great things from him.

In short, he dug too deep. He was never the same after it was over. And neither were the Beach Boys. Innumerable attempts on the part of the Beach Boys to try to get Brian to finish Smile or finish it themselves were fruitless although some material snuck onto later Beach Boys records.

Brian himself couldn't be bothered with it -

"I just threw it away, I junked it. I thought it was inappropriate music for us to make." - Such was the gospel truth from the creator himself.

Then, a good thirty years later, we all heard rumblings on the internet -

"I have a Master Plan for Smile."

After a good thirty years of disappointment and the occasional revelation, we were hesitant. This was Brian Wilson making these statements. We all thought he wanted nothing to do with the music.

There was the famous incident where Brian began playing Heroes and Villains on the piano at a small party. Then he played the song at his tribute show a few months later. By summer it was a staple in his setlists along with Our Prayer and Surf's Up. In 2002, he added a medley of Wonderful and Cabinessence, and also performed You're Welcome. He was becoming more and more relaxed with these small pieces of the puzzle in a live context.

Then we were told an audience would be seated at Royal Festival Hall on February 20, 2004 for an unveiling of the Smile music. The skeptics were out. I personally expected it to be a no-show, and the whole tour would be cancelled. It happened, though. And given our expectations at the time, it was a resounding success. Brian played the Smile music night after night for the better part of two years. It was decided that there would be a recording of the program we had heard in concert.

The recording was brilliant - or at least I thought so at the time. Eventually as I came down from the initial experience, I was left with the same thoughts I have to this day - Brian's band cannot and will never replace the Beach Boys vocally, and the instrumental performances, while competent, lack all of the mystique, mystery, and uncertainty of those unfinished sessions. "K-Tel repackaging of the Smile music" is very, very accurate when it comes to describing BWPS as an album. Competent, professional, spit-shined, and SAFE. Uncomfortably safe. Smile as a collection of music is NONE of those. It's rambling, incoherent, frightening, and, yes, dangerous. BWPS is NONE of those. BWPS is not Brian's statement of what he deemed to be the unbiased, unequivical truth; the spirituality he felt in his mind. It's a forgery. A mock-up. And I highly, highly doubt there was much, if any, input from the man himself.

BWPS, the album was, then and now, a disgrace and insult - to the Smile music, its legacy, Brian himself, the Beach Boys, and all of us. It's on the same level as Michael Love and Adrian Baker re-recording Beach Boys songs. And that is a damn shame. This music didn't just deserve a proper exhibition, it required and demanded it. And the fact that BWPS, the album, has become the final word, is incredibly distressing and unbelievably sad. Dare I say, it's pathetic.

It should be called The Wifeandmanagers Present Smile. At least there would be some fucking truth in advertising.

[The Shift]

I don't think you hang out on the Blooboard much, do you.

[Jason]

I'll put it this way - the blueboarders can't handle the truth and I'm allergic to bullshit. But there's a ton of them and only one of me. Pick and choose your battles and all that.

[Smilin Ed H]

Wow, you mean you were wrong!  Holy f***!

[The Shift]

I'll put it this way - the blueboarders can't handle the truth and I'm allergic to bullmerda. But there's a ton of them and only one of me. Pick and choose your battles and all that.

You're definitely not alone. Or as Mike Harding puts: it "No man is an island, except Fred Madagascar."

[Jason]

Hey man, I'm just a dude making small talk on the internet about the Beach Boys. The Beach Boys are the ones who are successful and have all the cash. I'm definitely of the "who am I in the bigger picture" school of thought. But I've been jumped on for less challenging comments about the Beach Boys than my essay in this thread. That's a perverse mentality on the part of those who get their knickers in a knot over some dude on a webforum writing a lot of stuff that they disagree with about a rock band.