Mike the dominant creative force when it came to conceptual content?

[SMiLE Brian]

Wirestone on point!

[GhostyTMRS]

Mike probably latched on to this idea of what the Beach Boys mean conceptually because Brian called Mike a "conceptual genius" multiple times during promotion for the C50 tour. 

[CenturyDeprived]

Mike probably latched on to this idea of what the Beach Boys mean conceptually because Brian called Mike a "conceptual genius" multiple times during promotion for the C50 tour.  

Well that was legitimately sweet of him. I'm sure he knows how much Mike feels like he's in Brian's own shadow, so he was trying to do a genuinely nice thing and boost Mike a bit. A typically selfless thing that Brian does. Nice to see how Mike returned the favor by refusing to rethink the set end date.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

And that's when the quality went to hell.

Absolutely! 

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

I don't think Michael has ever argued that he is Brian's equal. Brian's biggest fan is Michael.

myKe luHv is a fan of myKe luHv. End of story.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

It's an incredibly outrageous statement.

Mike has nearly finished rewriting the band's history in his image. It's not enough that he gets to be the lyricist to some of Brian's most successful songs, and the band's onstage front man. He has to now believe he was the band's dominant creative force.

That will be the mission statement of the book, mark my words. It's nuts.

 

[Douchepool]

I don't think Michael has ever argued that he is Brian's equal. Brian's biggest fan is Michael.

myKe luHv is a fan of myKe luHv. End of story.

As it rustles your jimmies so, more power to him.

[Autotune]

Brian called Mike a "conceptual genius" on Charlie Rose in 2012. I think that Brian may agree with Mike's statement more so than most posters here.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

I don't think Michael has ever argued that he is Brian's equal. Brian's biggest fan is Michael.

myKe luHv is a fan of myKe luHv. End of story.

As it rustles your jimmies so, more power to him.

Looks like the post got your panties in a bit of a bunch as well by just responding. 

[Bill30022]

I am starting to think that Mike says these things on purpose to see the reaction on smileysmile.

While Mike was a decent lryicist with some definate high points (Warmth of the Sun, The Wild Honey Album, Only With You), they are decades in the past. What concepts is he truly responsible for?

I will take the concept behind Pet Sounds, SMiLE, Today , Good Vibration s and 'Til I Die over any concept of Mike Love's.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

I am starting to think that Mike says these things on purpose to see the reaction on smileysmile.

While Mike was a decent lryicist with some definate high points (Warmth of the Sun, The Wild Honey Album, Only With You), they are decades in the past. What concepts is he truly responsible for?

I will take the concept behind Pet Sounds, SMiLE, Today , Good Vibration s and 'Til I Die over any concept of Mike Love's.

Post of the week, Bill!!   

[CenturyDeprived]

Brian called Mike a "conceptual genius" on Charlie Rose in 2012. I think that Brian may agree with Mike's statement more so than most posters here.

I don't doubt that Brian feels that Mike has made some great contributions. I do as well. But also remember that Brian is somebody who has said that Norbit is his favorite movie.  It doesn't seem very hard for Brian to hand out deep compliments. Regardless, it's Brian's place to say it, not Mike's to say/imply it about himself.

[Mike's Beard]

Sure Dennis came up with the idea to write about surfing but Mike was the one who took that idea and ran with it. He was the one who wrote the lyrics to the surfing lifestyle concept. He was also the guy who evolved writing about surfing to encapsulate the whole California teen lifestyle (girls, school, beaches, the movies, cruising) which peaked with All Summer Long and Summer Days (and Summer Nights!). Mike was clearly the dominant lyrical creative force within the band from 61-65.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Sure Dennis came up with the idea to write about surfing but Mike was the one who took that idea and ran with it. He was the one who wrote the lyrics to the surfing lifestyle concept. He was also the guy who evolved writing about surfing to encapsulate the whole California teen lifestyle (girls, school, beaches, the movies, cruising) which peaked with All Summer Long and Summer Days (and Summer Nights!). Mike was clearly the dominant lyrical creative force within the band from 61-65.

No doubt about that. The statement though implies that continued afterwards,  when in actuality it didn't for some years after.

[Cam Mott]

Sure Dennis came up with the idea to write about surfing but Mike was the one who took that idea and ran with it. He was the one who wrote the lyrics to the surfing lifestyle concept. He was also the guy who evolved writing about surfing to encapsulate the whole California teen lifestyle (girls, school, beaches, the movies, cruising) which peaked with All Summer Long and Summer Days (and Summer Nights!). Mike was clearly the dominant lyrical creative force within the band from 61-65.

No doubt about that. The statement though implies that continued afterwards,  when in actuality it didn't for some years after.

Didn't it? He is only talking about songs he wrote with Brian. Didn't that stay the same whenever they wrote together?

[Autotune]

Sure Dennis came up with the idea to write about surfing but Mike was the one who took that idea and ran with it. He was the one who wrote the lyrics to the surfing lifestyle concept. He was also the guy who evolved writing about surfing to encapsulate the whole California teen lifestyle (girls, school, beaches, the movies, cruising) which peaked with All Summer Long and Summer Days (and Summer Nights!). Mike was clearly the dominant lyrical creative force within the band from 61-65.

No doubt about that. The statement though implies that continued afterwards,  when in actuality it didn't for some years after.

Didn't it? He is only talking about songs he wrote with Brian. Didn't that stay the same whenever they wrote together?

Yep. And regarding GV he conceived a psychodelical poem to give a Brian's initial idea about dogs barking at people and such into a boy-girl relatable song. I'm sure he feels he defined conceptually what became a massive and classic hit. And it's likely that Brian feels the same way. Til I Die doesn't count-- Brian's the only songwriter.

[rab2591]

Sure Dennis came up with the idea to write about surfing but Mike was the one who took that idea and ran with it. He was the one who wrote the lyrics to the surfing lifestyle concept. He was also the guy who evolved writing about surfing to encapsulate the whole California teen lifestyle (girls, school, beaches, the movies, cruising) which peaked with All Summer Long and Summer Days (and Summer Nights!). Mike was clearly the dominant lyrical creative force within the band from 61-65.

No doubt about that. The statement though implies that continued afterwards,  when in actuality it didn't for some years after.

Didn't it? He is only talking about songs he wrote with Brian. Didn't that stay the same whenever they wrote together?

Yep. And regarding GV he conceived a psychodelical poem to give a Brian's initial idea about dogs barking at people and such into a boy-girl relatable song.

Considering the song already had boy-girl lyrics before Mike became involved, I doubt he was the one who transformed the initial idea into a relatable love song. Yes, he came up with incredible lyrics for the concept, but the concept was already made.

[Cam Mott]

Sure Dennis came up with the idea to write about surfing but Mike was the one who took that idea and ran with it. He was the one who wrote the lyrics to the surfing lifestyle concept. He was also the guy who evolved writing about surfing to encapsulate the whole California teen lifestyle (girls, school, beaches, the movies, cruising) which peaked with All Summer Long and Summer Days (and Summer Nights!). Mike was clearly the dominant lyrical creative force within the band from 61-65.

No doubt about that. The statement though implies that continued afterwards,  when in actuality it didn't for some years after.

Didn't it? He is only talking about songs he wrote with Brian. Didn't that stay the same whenever they wrote together?

Yep. And regarding GV he conceived a psychodelical poem to give a Brian's initial idea about dogs barking at people and such into a boy-girl relatable song.

Considering the song already had boy-girl lyrics before Mike became involved, I doubt he was the one who transformed the initial idea into a relatable love song. Yes, he came up with incredible lyrics for the concept, but the concept was already made.

Mike has said he was given a copy of the finished track and he came up with the concept and lyrics.

[Lee Marshall]

A - Assertive,
S - simplistic
S - summation
H - honed
O - on
L - less
E - effect [and a]

 L - less
 I - influential
 K - Kind [of]
 E - effort.

[rab2591]

Sure Dennis came up with the idea to write about surfing but Mike was the one who took that idea and ran with it. He was the one who wrote the lyrics to the surfing lifestyle concept. He was also the guy who evolved writing about surfing to encapsulate the whole California teen lifestyle (girls, school, beaches, the movies, cruising) which peaked with All Summer Long and Summer Days (and Summer Nights!). Mike was clearly the dominant lyrical creative force within the band from 61-65.

No doubt about that. The statement though implies that continued afterwards,  when in actuality it didn't for some years after.

Didn't it? He is only talking about songs he wrote with Brian. Didn't that stay the same whenever they wrote together?

Yep. And regarding GV he conceived a psychodelical poem to give a Brian's initial idea about dogs barking at people and such into a boy-girl relatable song.

Considering the song already had boy-girl lyrics before Mike became involved, I doubt he was the one who transformed the initial idea into a relatable love song. Yes, he came up with incredible lyrics for the concept, but the concept was already made.

Mike has said he was given a copy of the finished track and he came up with the concept and lyrics.

Funny, because the concept was already created before the backing track was complete and finalized...hence why we have Tony Asher lyrics (about good vibrations/feelings between boys and girls) sung over an early version of the track...and though Mike created FAR more beautiful lyrics, the concept was already there. This should be common knowledge to mostly everyone on this board.

Cam, is there anything you won't defend about Mike?

[filledeplage]

Sure Dennis came up with the idea to write about surfing but Mike was the one who took that idea and ran with it. He was the one who wrote the lyrics to the surfing lifestyle concept. He was also the guy who evolved writing about surfing to encapsulate the whole California teen lifestyle (girls, school, beaches, the movies, cruising) which peaked with All Summer Long and Summer Days (and Summer Nights!). Mike was clearly the dominant lyrical creative force within the band from 61-65.

No doubt about that. The statement though implies that continued afterwards,  when in actuality it didn't for some years after.

Didn't it? He is only talking about songs he wrote with Brian. Didn't that stay the same whenever they wrote together?

Yep. And regarding GV he conceived a psychodelical poem to give a Brian's initial idea about dogs barking at people and such into a boy-girl relatable song.

Considering the song already had boy-girl lyrics before Mike became involved, I doubt he was the one who transformed the initial idea into a relatable love song. Yes, he came up with incredible lyrics for the concept, but the concept was already made.

Mike has said he was given a copy of the finished track and he came up with the concept and lyrics.

Funny, because the concept was already created before the backing track was complete and finalized...hence why we have Tony Asher lyrics (about good vibrations/feelings between boys and girls) sung over an early version of the track...and though Mike created FAR more beautiful lyrics, the concept was already there. This should be common knowledge to mostly everyone on this board.

Cam, is there anything you won't defend about Mike?

Those lyrics were winners.  It is hard to argue with success.  Mike has been able to distill concepts and make them "available" to the listeners, and match what Brian's melody was aiming for, translate that, and cut through the other musicians competing for radio airtime. Competition was especially vicious in 1966-67 to pull of a Number One hit.

It is too bad some on this board use so much of their energy to hate band members.  Life is short enough.  It is possible to disagree or even dislike without the full on concentrated effort to hate a person one doesn't know.  Just sayin' - and maybe Cam has a different perspective.  Isn't there room for that, here?

Just an observation.

It is Friday - have a Smiley  

[rab2591]

Those lyrics were winners.  It is hard to argue with success.  Mike has been able to distill concepts and make them "available" to the listeners, and match what Brian's melody was aiming for, translate that, and cut through the other musicians competing for radio airtime. Competition was especially vicious in 1966-67 to pull of a Number One hit.

It is too bad some on this board use so much of their energy to hate band members.  Life is short enough.  It is possible to disagree or even dislike without the full on concentrated effort to hate a person one doesn't know.  Just sayin' - and maybe Cam has a different perspective.  Isn't there room for that, here?

Just an observation.

It is Friday - have a Smiley  

Those lyrics were/are winners, I'm not disputing that at all, so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up. I'm merely trying to clear up some misinformation: Mike didn't come up with the concept for Good Vibrations. He didn't transform the idea of dogs picking up signals into boy/girl lyrics because Tony Asher had already done that. He didn't come up with the concept after he was given the final backing track because the concept had already been conceived by Brian. This has nothing to do with perspective, just facts.

And I'm not sure how discussing a claim made by Mike is considered hating on him. Unless that comment wasn't directed at me, in which case apologies.

[KDS]

Through the power of song, Mike Love (with three other people) took a small landlocked town in Indiana and transformed it into a tropical paradise where you can sip cocktails on moonlight nights and dance to the rhythm of steel drum bands. 

 

I'm sure Mike and Bruce do pretty well in ticket sales with their version of The Beach Boys.  But I really think, if Mike were smart, he'd use a little more tact when commenting on former band members.   He might actually be able to sell more tickets if he did so, especially if Brian doesn't tour as much in the future.  Mike is getting into Gene Simmons territory where he can't seem to pay a compliment to a former band member without following it up with something negative.   

[filledeplage]

Those lyrics were winners.  It is hard to argue with success.  Mike has been able to distill concepts and make them "available" to the listeners, and match what Brian's melody was aiming for, translate that, and cut through the other musicians competing for radio airtime. Competition was especially vicious in 1966-67 to pull of a Number One hit.

It is too bad some on this board use so much of their energy to hate band members.  Life is short enough.  It is possible to disagree or even dislike without the full on concentrated effort to hate a person one doesn't know.  Just sayin' - and maybe Cam has a different perspective.  Isn't there room for that, here?

Just an observation.

It is Friday - have a Smiley  

Those lyrics were/are winners, I'm not disputing that at all, so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up. I'm merely trying to clear up some misinformation: Mike didn't come up with the concept for Good Vibrations. He didn't transform the idea of dogs picking up signals into boy/girl lyrics because Tony Asher had already done that. He didn't come up with the concept after he was given the final backing track because the concept had already been conceived by Brian. This has nothing to do with perspective, just facts.

And I'm not sure how discussing a claim made by Mike is considered hating on him. Unless that comment wasn't directed at me, in which case apologies.

Well, I'm not sure what is being "cleared up" here. And I wasn't there ( and suspect you weren't either) - lyric concepts are meritorious as well.  It is the specific song property that makes one sing a song, in the shower, in the car, or going down the street...

As well as the fine-tuning of a final product. I realize a lot of those years of lyrics such as Hang on to Your Ego v. I Know there's an Answer went through transformation (evident through many hours listening to the PS Sessions) before they were finalized on one album or another.

Your apologies aren't to me.  I'm not offended, but am becoming more aware of how polarized this forum is becoming, as well as intolerant and I'm not singling you out.  It is barb after barb after barb.  

Misinformation? Asher was heavily involved in that era.  No one is suggesting otherwise.  But, that material had to be digested by the live audiences and Asher wasn't the one at whom tomatoes would be tossed if an audience thought a song or performance was crap.  And who knew what would "work" with various crowds.  That would be Mike who was on the front lines in that era.  It is almost like a political speech writer who gives a politician or candidate a speech that the candidate knows isn't going to work with a certain constituency.  It could be a good speech, but won't garner a single vote.  

There is a very small margin for error in this business.  And Mike clearly had the feel of the crowd to know what would work; even keeping the much reviled, but fan-favorite Barbara Ann...and what wouldn't work.

GV was a long-ass song for AM radio play, for that era.  It took the strongest lyrics to keep the stations playing it, and for those of us listening to 1" speakers on a transistor radio to stay riveted.  

[Cam Mott]

Funny, because the concept was already created before the backing track was complete and finalized...hence why we have Tony Asher lyrics (about good vibrations/feelings between boys and girls) sung over an early version of the track...and though Mike created FAR more beautiful lyrics, the concept was already there. This should be common knowledge to mostly everyone on this board.

Cam, is there anything you won't defend about Mike?

Yeah, Wrinkles.

Let's assume that the Brian only vocal of GV proves Mike had any knowledge of Asher's lyrics and Mike is wrong when he thinks he was given the completed instrumental track and he came up with a boy-girl concept (or boy-dog angle, whichever) and that the concept of Surfin' was Dennis'. That leaves a whole lot of songs with potentially Mike's lyrical concepts, a potentially "dominate" amount of songs from their relationship even.