Mike the dominant creative force when it came to conceptual content?

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Sure Dennis came up with the idea to write about surfing but Mike was the one who took that idea and ran with it. He was the one who wrote the lyrics to the surfing lifestyle concept. He was also the guy who evolved writing about surfing to encapsulate the whole California teen lifestyle (girls, school, beaches, the movies, cruising) which peaked with All Summer Long and Summer Days (and Summer Nights!). Mike was clearly the dominant lyrical creative force within the band from 61-65.

No doubt about that. The statement though implies that continued afterwards,  when in actuality it didn't for some years after.

Didn't it? He is only talking about songs he wrote with Brian. Didn't that stay the same whenever they wrote together?

As someone mentioned, Wild Honey, Smiley Smile, Pet Sounds, Friends and 15 Big Ones were all Brian's concepts

[Cam Mott]

I think Mike has said he came up with the concept for the song Wild Honey from a jar of wild honey. Pet Sounds the song is an instrumental and wasn't written with Mike. The song Friends wasn't written with Mike. Smiley Smile and 15 Big Ones aren't songs.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Comparing Mike Love to Kanye West.  That's kinda mean. 

At least Mike actually has some musical achievements to be proud of. 

I'd put Mike more in the same league as Gene Simmons.  Granted Gene contributed a lot more to Kiss than Mike did to the Beach Boys.  But everytime Gene talks in the press, or in his several books, about Ace Frehley or Peter Criss, he always seems to have something negative to say. 

Although at least Mike doesn't hire Brian Wilson and Al Jardine lookalikes to go onstage with him every night like Gene Simmons does with Ace and Peter. 

People have compared him to Hitler as well. I'd rather be compared to Kuntye than Hitler, but that's just me.

Everyone is compared to Hitler, no matter how ridiculous. Godwin's Law. It's not specific to Mike critics.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I think Mike has said he came up with the concept for the song Wild Honey from a jar of wild honey. Pet Sounds the song is an instrumental and wasn't written with Mike. The song Friends wasn't written with Mike. Smiley Smile and 15 Big Ones aren't songs.

Gee, it's almost like I was talking about albums and not songs. As in, showing that Brian came up with the concepts to many of their albums (or, if you want to be pedantic, ALL THE SONGS ON THOSE ALBUMS) and it wasnt always Mike coming up with the concepts. Durr.

[Cam Mott]

I think Mike has said he came up with the concept for the song Wild Honey from a jar of wild honey. Pet Sounds the song is an instrumental and wasn't written with Mike. The song Friends wasn't written with Mike. Smiley Smile and 15 Big Ones aren't songs.

Gee, it's almost like I was talking about albums and not songs. As in, showing that Brian came up with the concepts to many of their albums (or, if you want to be pedantic, ALL THE SONGS ON THOSE ALBUMS) and it wasnt always Mike comping up with the concepts. Durr.

OK. They collaborated on songs and Mike didn't claim to always comp up the song concepts or albums for that matter.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I think Mike has said he came up with the concept for the song Wild Honey from a jar of wild honey. Pet Sounds the song is an instrumental and wasn't written with Mike. The song Friends wasn't written with Mike. Smiley Smile and 15 Big Ones aren't songs.

Gee, it's almost like I was talking about albums and not songs. As in, showing that Brian came up with the concepts to many of their albums (or, if you want to be pedantic, ALL THE SONGS ON THOSE ALBUMS) and it wasnt always Mike comping up with the concepts. Durr.

OK. They collaborated on songs and Mike didn't claim to always comp up the song concepts or albums for that matter.

No, but he claimed he was the main driving force in terms of concepts. Id argue the early stuff up to Today was about 50-50 him and Brian. Today is much more Brian, those albums I listed were mostly Brian's idea to go in their respective conceptual directions, Sunflower was totally collaborative between all the guys, as was Surf's Up. You could argue CATP and Holland were mostly Carl's direction, Love You is also all Brian...after that it's mostly Mike, ok. But that hardly makes him the dominate creative/conceptual force of the band, does it? And are those later Beach Boy albums really something worth bragging about? Not really. Plus that creative train of thought of those later albums basically just aped their early success. Any way you slice it, Mike was NOT the major conceptual force as he said he was. Thats the whole point of the thread

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

But that implies that the hits had run out before GV! So Sloop John B was a  bomb?  Seriously...you're not helping your argument.
Your statement basically says going with Asher was a mistake...you might be alone in that.  Even Mike would say you're incorrect.

Would he? Dont get me wrong, I 100% agree, as would 99% of Beach Boys fans (at least those that know enough to know that Pet Sounds used a different lyricist) but I think Mike with all his bravado would probably argue otherwise. I can see him going off on a rant about how he should have been the lyricist, if the subject came up.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

How many listeners bought or even got into these records (i.e. the 'classics' from the 60's) primarily on the strength of the lyrics? Did the kids/fans in the 60's hear whatever single was on the radio then go out and buy the 45 based primarily on lyrics?

Not many if any at all, Id wager. Even as a kid I thought the Beach Boys lyrics were pretty cheesy. It didnt hamper things much, because I thought of them as fun summer music to listen to on the car ride down to the beach with my family. But it was the melodies and amazing vocal harmonies that got me hooked, and that was almost 100% Brian's contribution. And now that I'm older, honestly I think it's the lyrics that are the greatest detriment to most of their work. Not just the early stuff from Mike but most of Brian's stuff on Love You and debatably VDP's stuff on SMiLE too. Goes without saying I love it, but it is very oblique and not everyone's style, which makes it harder to turn some people unto that music.

[CenturyDeprived]

How many listeners bought or even got into these records (i.e. the 'classics' from the 60's) primarily on the strength of the lyrics? Did the kids/fans in the 60's hear whatever single was on the radio then go out and buy the 45 based primarily on lyrics?

Not many if any at all, Id wager. Even as a kid I thought the Beach Boys lyrics were pretty cheesy. It didnt hamper things much, because I thought of them as fun summer music to listen to on the car ride down to the beach with my family. But it was the melodies and amazing vocal harmonies that got me hooked, and that was almost 100% Brian's contribution. And now that I'm older, honestly I think it's the lyrics that are the greatest detriment to most of their work. Not just the early stuff from Mike but most of Brian's stuff on Love You and debatably VDP's stuff on SMiLE too. Goes without saying I love it, but it is very oblique and not everyone's style, which makes it harder to turn some people unto that music.

+1. Despite a good number of exceptions, I tend to love this band despite the lyrics, not typically because of them. A lot of BB lyrics are an acquired taste (both Mike's and Brian's). I know lots and lots of people who don't like or won't give this band a chance specifically because of the lyrics. Their loss, of course.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

No.

The sticking point is not the word "dominant," but the words "dominant creative force."

And the REAL sticking point is that that comment (along with that transparent travesty of Beard's “interview”) is that it seems that Mike is setting things up to change history, presumably for his book. What I find interesting is that Mike’s supporters are ALWAYS claiming a bias from others against him because of the things he says when they knock Brian Wilson.

For DECADES Mike talks about Brian’s mental, emotional, and substance issues with abandon.
When was the last time you heard Brian (or Melinda) discuss Mike in any negative light?
They haven’t.

I fear that that will be the crux of Mike’s book: BRIAN WILSON’S STORY THROUGH THE EYES OF MIKE LOVE. Because that’s the story of the band, they were all -- even Dennis -- satellites of BW. What's Mike really going to write about? HIS songs? HIS marriages? HIS kids?

Two themes: Brian and TM.

This book is his last shot at public redemption. I know his people read this board, so I’m gonna say it straight to them: Do the right thing. Don’t hire fact checkers to change history to present situations in a positive light when they weren’t. Own up to how it went down. Brian Wilson has. Everyone will appreciate an honest Mike Love book that simply calls it like he sees it rather than taking away from Brian Wilson’s gifts and catalogue. His life has been a fascinating enough journey without having to do that.

If Mike and his staff go with “That’s mine/that’s me” they lose -- especially after Love And Mercy.
Trying to knock/hurt this guy is the dumbest (professionally and monetarily) thing they can do.
They will be SLAUGHTERED by the press.

“Dominant creative force" is a red flag, and Mike Love’s supporters on this board always end up spending weeks arguing semantics (e.g. what words REALLY mean), this thread has become that now, too.

Cam -- the lesson is as old as the ages: If you have to s hit on someone to win, you don’t win.

Stop fighting.
Go outside.
Kiss your kids.
Have fun.
I love you.

 

[Cam Mott]

I think Mike has said he came up with the concept for the song Wild Honey from a jar of wild honey. Pet Sounds the song is an instrumental and wasn't written with Mike. The song Friends wasn't written with Mike. Smiley Smile and 15 Big Ones aren't songs.

Gee, it's almost like I was talking about albums and not songs. As in, showing that Brian came up with the concepts to many of their albums (or, if you want to be pedantic, ALL THE SONGS ON THOSE ALBUMS) and it wasnt always Mike comping up with the concepts. Durr.

OK. They collaborated on songs and Mike didn't claim to always comp up the song concepts or albums for that matter.

No, but he claimed he was the main driving force in terms of concepts. Id argue the early stuff up to Today was about 50-50 him and Brian. Today is much more Brian, those albums I listed were mostly Brian's idea to go in their respective conceptual directions, Sunflower was totally collaborative between all the guys, as was Surf's Up. You could argue CATP and Holland were mostly Carl's direction, Love You is also all Brian...after that it's mostly Mike, ok. But that hardly makes him the dominate creative/conceptual force of the band, does it? And are those later Beach Boy albums really something worth bragging about? Not really. Plus that creative train of thought of those later albums basically just aped their early success. Any way you slice it, Mike was NOT the major conceptual force as he said he was. Thats the whole point of the thread

OK, we don't agree. My read is Mike's claim is specific and limited and no one has shown it wrong so far.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I think Mike has said he came up with the concept for the song Wild Honey from a jar of wild honey. Pet Sounds the song is an instrumental and wasn't written with Mike. The song Friends wasn't written with Mike. Smiley Smile and 15 Big Ones aren't songs.

Gee, it's almost like I was talking about albums and not songs. As in, showing that Brian came up with the concepts to many of their albums (or, if you want to be pedantic, ALL THE SONGS ON THOSE ALBUMS) and it wasnt always Mike comping up with the concepts. Durr.

OK. They collaborated on songs and Mike didn't claim to always comp up the song concepts or albums for that matter.

No, but he claimed he was the main driving force in terms of concepts. Id argue the early stuff up to Today was about 50-50 him and Brian. Today is much more Brian, those albums I listed were mostly Brian's idea to go in their respective conceptual directions, Sunflower was totally collaborative between all the guys, as was Surf's Up. You could argue CATP and Holland were mostly Carl's direction, Love You is also all Brian...after that it's mostly Mike, ok. But that hardly makes him the dominate creative/conceptual force of the band, does it? And are those later Beach Boy albums really something worth bragging about? Not really. Plus that creative train of thought of those later albums basically just aped their early success. Any way you slice it, Mike was NOT the major conceptual force as he said he was. Thats the whole point of the thread

OK, we don't agree. My read is Mike's claim is specific and limited and no one has shown it wrong so far.

But...his claim explicitly covers the entire span of the band's catalog. Like...with the very words he chose, there's no other way to interpret it except that he was claiming to be the driving force for everything--or very nearly everything--they ever recorded. So...? I mean, care to elaborate your position then? Because otherwise Im gonna have to accuse you of moving the goal posts, so to speak. 

[Cam Mott]

I think Mike has said he came up with the concept for the song Wild Honey from a jar of wild honey. Pet Sounds the song is an instrumental and wasn't written with Mike. The song Friends wasn't written with Mike. Smiley Smile and 15 Big Ones aren't songs.

Gee, it's almost like I was talking about albums and not songs. As in, showing that Brian came up with the concepts to many of their albums (or, if you want to be pedantic, ALL THE SONGS ON THOSE ALBUMS) and it wasnt always Mike comping up with the concepts. Durr.

OK. They collaborated on songs and Mike didn't claim to always comp up the song concepts or albums for that matter.

No, but he claimed he was the main driving force in terms of concepts. Id argue the early stuff up to Today was about 50-50 him and Brian. Today is much more Brian, those albums I listed were mostly Brian's idea to go in their respective conceptual directions, Sunflower was totally collaborative between all the guys, as was Surf's Up. You could argue CATP and Holland were mostly Carl's direction, Love You is also all Brian...after that it's mostly Mike, ok. But that hardly makes him the dominate creative/conceptual force of the band, does it? And are those later Beach Boy albums really something worth bragging about? Not really. Plus that creative train of thought of those later albums basically just aped their early success. Any way you slice it, Mike was NOT the major conceptual force as he said he was. Thats the whole point of the thread

OK, we don't agree. My read is Mike's claim is specific and limited and no one has shown it wrong so far.

But...his claim explicitly covers the entire span of the band's catalog. Like...with the very words he chose, there's no other way to interpret it except that he was claiming to be the driving force for everything--or very nearly everything--they ever recorded. So...? I mean, care to elaborate your position then? Because otherwise Im gonna have to accuse you of moving the goal posts, so to speak. 

OK, fair enough because that's what I think you are doing. My position is already in the thread.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I think Mike has said he came up with the concept for the song Wild Honey from a jar of wild honey. Pet Sounds the song is an instrumental and wasn't written with Mike. The song Friends wasn't written with Mike. Smiley Smile and 15 Big Ones aren't songs.

Gee, it's almost like I was talking about albums and not songs. As in, showing that Brian came up with the concepts to many of their albums (or, if you want to be pedantic, ALL THE SONGS ON THOSE ALBUMS) and it wasnt always Mike comping up with the concepts. Durr.

OK. They collaborated on songs and Mike didn't claim to always comp up the song concepts or albums for that matter.

No, but he claimed he was the main driving force in terms of concepts. Id argue the early stuff up to Today was about 50-50 him and Brian. Today is much more Brian, those albums I listed were mostly Brian's idea to go in their respective conceptual directions, Sunflower was totally collaborative between all the guys, as was Surf's Up. You could argue CATP and Holland were mostly Carl's direction, Love You is also all Brian...after that it's mostly Mike, ok. But that hardly makes him the dominate creative/conceptual force of the band, does it? And are those later Beach Boy albums really something worth bragging about? Not really. Plus that creative train of thought of those later albums basically just aped their early success. Any way you slice it, Mike was NOT the major conceptual force as he said he was. Thats the whole point of the thread

OK, we don't agree. My read is Mike's claim is specific and limited and no one has shown it wrong so far.

But...his claim explicitly covers the entire span of the band's catalog. Like...with the very words he chose, there's no other way to interpret it except that he was claiming to be the driving force for everything--or very nearly everything--they ever recorded. So...? I mean, care to elaborate your position then? Because otherwise Im gonna have to accuse you of moving the goal posts, so to speak. 

OK, fair enough because that's what I think you are doing. My position is already in the thread.

Ive read through the entire thread and cant figure out your position except to stubbornly make excuses for Mike at all costs like always. But Im giving you another chance here. Enlighten me. Explain your position. If it's already in the thread, copy and paste it here please. Shouldnt be that hard.

And really, Im moving the goal posts? Because I just explained my reasoning not two posts above you and thats all Ive said on the matter. Do you understand what moving the goal posts means?

[Cam Mott]

I think Mike has said he came up with the concept for the song Wild Honey from a jar of wild honey. Pet Sounds the song is an instrumental and wasn't written with Mike. The song Friends wasn't written with Mike. Smiley Smile and 15 Big Ones aren't songs.

Gee, it's almost like I was talking about albums and not songs. As in, showing that Brian came up with the concepts to many of their albums (or, if you want to be pedantic, ALL THE SONGS ON THOSE ALBUMS) and it wasnt always Mike comping up with the concepts. Durr.

OK. They collaborated on songs and Mike didn't claim to always comp up the song concepts or albums for that matter.

No, but he claimed he was the main driving force in terms of concepts. Id argue the early stuff up to Today was about 50-50 him and Brian. Today is much more Brian, those albums I listed were mostly Brian's idea to go in their respective conceptual directions, Sunflower was totally collaborative between all the guys, as was Surf's Up. You could argue CATP and Holland were mostly Carl's direction, Love You is also all Brian...after that it's mostly Mike, ok. But that hardly makes him the dominate creative/conceptual force of the band, does it? And are those later Beach Boy albums really something worth bragging about? Not really. Plus that creative train of thought of those later albums basically just aped their early success. Any way you slice it, Mike was NOT the major conceptual force as he said he was. Thats the whole point of the thread

OK, we don't agree. My read is Mike's claim is specific and limited and no one has shown it wrong so far.

But...his claim explicitly covers the entire span of the band's catalog. Like...with the very words he chose, there's no other way to interpret it except that he was claiming to be the driving force for everything--or very nearly everything--they ever recorded. So...? I mean, care to elaborate your position then? Because otherwise Im gonna have to accuse you of moving the goal posts, so to speak. 

OK, fair enough because that's what I think you are doing. My position is already in the thread.

Ive read through the entire thread and cant figure out your position except to stubbornly make excuses for Mike at all costs like always. But Im giving you another chance here. Enlighten me. Explain your position. If it's already in the thread, copy and paste it here please. Shouldnt be that hard.

And really, Im moving the goal posts? Because I just explained my reasoning not two posts above you and thats all Ive said on the matter. Do you understand what moving the goal posts means?

And I explained my reasoning in the thread, no point in saying it again then I suppose, but the short of it is, imo, you are taking it out of context and adding meaning not in the statement (ie. moving the goal posts). You disagree. That's fine.

[Mike's Beard]

[
But...his claim explicitly covers the entire span of the band's catalog. Like...with the very words he chose, there's no other way to interpret it except that he was claiming to be the driving force for everything--or very nearly everything--they ever recorded. So...? I mean, care to elaborate your position then? Because otherwise Im gonna have to accuse you of moving the goal posts, so to speak. 

Mike did not claim that at all. He said that when he and Brian wrote together he was the dominant force lyrically and conceptually.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I think Mike has said he came up with the concept for the song Wild Honey from a jar of wild honey. Pet Sounds the song is an instrumental and wasn't written with Mike. The song Friends wasn't written with Mike. Smiley Smile and 15 Big Ones aren't songs.

Gee, it's almost like I was talking about albums and not songs. As in, showing that Brian came up with the concepts to many of their albums (or, if you want to be pedantic, ALL THE SONGS ON THOSE ALBUMS) and it wasnt always Mike comping up with the concepts. Durr.

OK. They collaborated on songs and Mike didn't claim to always comp up the song concepts or albums for that matter.

No, but he claimed he was the main driving force in terms of concepts. Id argue the early stuff up to Today was about 50-50 him and Brian. Today is much more Brian, those albums I listed were mostly Brian's idea to go in their respective conceptual directions, Sunflower was totally collaborative between all the guys, as was Surf's Up. You could argue CATP and Holland were mostly Carl's direction, Love You is also all Brian...after that it's mostly Mike, ok. But that hardly makes him the dominate creative/conceptual force of the band, does it? And are those later Beach Boy albums really something worth bragging about? Not really. Plus that creative train of thought of those later albums basically just aped their early success. Any way you slice it, Mike was NOT the major conceptual force as he said he was. Thats the whole point of the thread

OK, we don't agree. My read is Mike's claim is specific and limited and no one has shown it wrong so far.

But...his claim explicitly covers the entire span of the band's catalog. Like...with the very words he chose, there's no other way to interpret it except that he was claiming to be the driving force for everything--or very nearly everything--they ever recorded. So...? I mean, care to elaborate your position then? Because otherwise Im gonna have to accuse you of moving the goal posts, so to speak. 

OK, fair enough because that's what I think you are doing. My position is already in the thread.

Ive read through the entire thread and cant figure out your position except to stubbornly make excuses for Mike at all costs like always. But Im giving you another chance here. Enlighten me. Explain your position. If it's already in the thread, copy and paste it here please. Shouldnt be that hard.

And really, Im moving the goal posts? Because I just explained my reasoning not two posts above you and thats all Ive said on the matter. Do you understand what moving the goal posts means?

And I explained my reasoning in the thread, no point in saying it again then I suppose, but the short of it is, imo, you are taking it out of context and adding meaning not in the statement (ie. moving the goal posts). You disagree. That's fine.

you're unbelievable

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

[
But...his claim explicitly covers the entire span of the band's catalog. Like...with the very words he chose, there's no other way to interpret it except that he was claiming to be the driving force for everything--or very nearly everything--they ever recorded. So...? I mean, care to elaborate your position then? Because otherwise Im gonna have to accuse you of moving the goal posts, so to speak. 

Mike did not claim that at all. He said that when he and Brian wrote together he was the dominant force lyrically and conceptually.

IDK about you, but that's a pretty big chunk of their discography I'd say. Certainly all that matters as far as Johnny Casual is concerned. That even includes a lot of Smiley Smile and some of Pet Sounds, which is all Brian's vision. And since the post-Love You stuff is just rehashing the conceptional foundation of the early stuff, that's most of their recorded material in any case. We're arguing semantics but in essence it's the same thing.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Randell Kirsch was fired by Mike Love a few weeks ago and replaced by Brian Eichenberger, who was poached from The Brian Wilson Band. Randell Kirsch was the bassist and falsetto singer for the Mike and Bruce show, and was fired for no reason other than Mike Love’s lunatic obsession with his cousin Brian Wilson and woe is us. We’re in a lot of trouble.  So a tall, bass playing falsetto singer was fired. What has that got to do with the price of rice, right? And why is that woe to us?

Gather round, friends and Kokodopes.

Many of us have spent much hard earned quid over the years seeing the touring band, and Randell Kirsch was a constant presence - a good vocalist, a good bass player and a better person who was popular, personable and accessible to many of us. The fact is, we are being lied to. The truth is not that Randell left for some unnamed opportunities (Papa Doo Ron Ron, anyone?), no, he was fired for no other reason other than Love, having an opportunity to stick it to his cousin yet again (and no opportunity to do so is ever wasted), even at the expense of a good musician and even better man like Randell Kirsch.  

And what happened during the interim on SmileySmile? The gang of Club Kokomo propagandists sprinted out of The Vibe Room and tried to spin it that Randell decided to waltz out of the touring BB door into the sub-tribute band world.  More attempts at a history rewrite.  Again. And now, after almost 50 years, we are supposed to believe that it was Love's concept that changed Good Vibrations from a song about dogs to a boy/girl song, completely ignoring the fact that Tony Asher had already written a set of lyrics that were specifically boy/girl, and completely ignoring the fact that Love dictated the lyrics to his wife in the car on the way to the vocal session, a story that Love himself has told ad nauseum. And to top it all off, now we are being told by Mr. Love that he was the “dominant creative force” in conceptions and lyrics in that relationship. And his propagandists now are pushing us the Good Vibrations was a Love concept, rescued by Love from becoming a song about dogs feeling vibrations! They will try and sell any shite that you will buy, as if anyone sane would buy into the circuitous drivel and pretzel logic spewed out by Mr. Cruz and his cohorts in propaganda - I don’t have to name them, you know who they are. All you have to do is be able to read the English language. They will tell you “Pisces Brothers” is seminal, they will tell you Stamos matters, they will tell you that Mike is the dominant creative force, they will tell you that Mike is the real genius behind the group, they will tell you any shite that they think you will believe, partially because the historian who won’t tell you he is indeed working on Mike’s autobiography and attempting to rewrite history for this book says it is so, and partially because they think they can get away with it. It's all about controlling information, specifically on these boards. For some here, the only truth you know is what you read right here. There is a whole generation of fans who don't know anything that doesn't come off the internet and publications like ESQ. This board is the gospel, the ultimate revelation, and is the most awesome gosh darn source in the whole godless Beach Boys world, and that's why woe is us if it ever falls into the hands of zealots, and who knows what kind of shite will be peddled for truth on this website. They will tell you exactly any shite they want you to hear, they will tell you that Mike is the genius behind the group, they will tell you that he is the dominant creative force, they will tell you it was Mike who has kept the group alive all these years, they will tell you that Good Vibrations would not have been a hit record if it weren't for Mike's lyrics and none of it is true. It’s all an illusion - none of it is true.

Put on Pet Sounds. Turn out all the lights and listen all the way through. Then play Summer in Paradise and do the same. Then tell me who was the dominant "creative" force.

I'd have said you were a nut before, but honestly with people like Cam around Im starting to believe *some* of this is possible. That totally ridiculous claim that Mike wrote the chorus to Vega-Tables still boggles my mind, as well as the stubborness to give an inch or elaborate his reasoning here.

You Kokomoists do more to turn people against Mike than even his tactless interview talking points, and that's saying a LOT.

[Cam Mott]

you're unbelievable

Back at ya.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

you're unbelievable

Back at ya.

Hey man, at least I try to write well-thought out and reasonable explanations for my opinions. Whether you agree or disagree, like me or hate me, I dont think I can be accused of being vague or evasive about my point. WAY more than I could say for you with your dismissive, unhelpful, stubborn replies. You have no argument, but refuse to concede so. You're dead-set on defending Mike and either you cant because he's so abrasive he's left you at a loss for excuses or you have the cognitive/rhetoric skills of a child. Maybe you're a shill or a troll, I'm not sure, but at this stage I'd believe anything.

[Cam Mott]

you're unbelievable

Back at ya.

Hey man, at least I try to write well-thought out and reasonable explanations for my opinions. Whether you agree or disagree, like me or hate me, I dont think I can be accused of being vague or evasive about my point. WAY more than I could say for you with your dismissive, unhelpful, stubborn replies. You have no argument, but refuse to concede so. You're dead-set on defending Mike and either you cant because he's so abrasive he's left you at a loss for excuses or you have the cognitive/rhetoric skills of a child. Maybe you're a shill or a troll, I'm not sure, but at this stage I'd believe anything.

Hey man, it's all in the thread, there is no point in repeating it. We disagree and you can save your personal jabs and innuendo.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Randell Kirsch was fired by Mike Love a few weeks ago and replaced by Brian Eichenberger, who was poached from The Brian Wilson Band. Randell Kirsch was the bassist and falsetto singer for the Mike and Bruce show, and was fired for no reason other than Mike Love’s lunatic obsession with his cousin Brian Wilson and woe is us. We’re in a lot of trouble.  So a tall, bass playing falsetto singer was fired. What has that got to do with the price of rice, right? And why is that woe to us?

Gather round, friends and Kokodopes.

Many of us have spent much hard earned quid over the years seeing the touring band, and Randell Kirsch was a constant presence - a good vocalist, a good bass player and a better person who was popular, personable and accessible to many of us. The fact is, we are being lied to. The truth is not that Randell left for some unnamed opportunities (Papa Doo Ron Ron, anyone?), no, he was fired for no other reason other than Love, having an opportunity to stick it to his cousin yet again (and no opportunity to do so is ever wasted), even at the expense of a good musician and even better man like Randell Kirsch.  

And what happened during the interim on SmileySmile? The gang of Club Kokomo propagandists sprinted out of The Vibe Room and tried to spin it that Randell decided to waltz out of the touring BB door into the sub-tribute band world.  More attempts at a history rewrite.  Again. And now, after almost 50 years, we are supposed to believe that it was Love's concept that changed Good Vibrations from a song about dogs to a boy/girl song, completely ignoring the fact that Tony Asher had already written a set of lyrics that were specifically boy/girl, and completely ignoring the fact that Love dictated the lyrics to his wife in the car on the way to the vocal session, a story that Love himself has told ad nauseum. And to top it all off, now we are being told by Mr. Love that he was the “dominant creative force” in conceptions and lyrics in that relationship. And his propagandists now are pushing us the Good Vibrations was a Love concept, rescued by Love from becoming a song about dogs feeling vibrations! They will try and sell any shite that you will buy, as if anyone sane would buy into the circuitous drivel and pretzel logic spewed out by Mr. Cruz and his cohorts in propaganda - I don’t have to name them, you know who they are. All you have to do is be able to read the English language. They will tell you “Pisces Brothers” is seminal, they will tell you Stamos matters, they will tell you that Mike is the dominant creative force, they will tell you that Mike is the real genius behind the group, they will tell you any shite that they think you will believe, partially because the historian who won’t tell you he is indeed working on Mike’s autobiography and attempting to rewrite history for this book says it is so, and partially because they think they can get away with it. It's all about controlling information, specifically on these boards. For some here, the only truth you know is what you read right here. There is a whole generation of fans who don't know anything that doesn't come off the internet and publications like ESQ. This board is the gospel, the ultimate revelation, and is the most awesome gosh darn source in the whole godless Beach Boys world, and that's why woe is us if it ever falls into the hands of zealots, and who knows what kind of shite will be peddled for truth on this website. They will tell you exactly any shite they want you to hear, they will tell you that Mike is the genius behind the group, they will tell you that he is the dominant creative force, they will tell you it was Mike who has kept the group alive all these years, they will tell you that Good Vibrations would not have been a hit record if it weren't for Mike's lyrics and none of it is true. It’s all an illusion - none of it is true.

Put on Pet Sounds. Turn out all the lights and listen all the way through. Then play Summer in Paradise and do the same. Then tell me who was the dominant "creative" force.

I'd have said you were a nut before, but honestly with people like Cam around Im starting to believe *some* of this is possible. That totally ridiculous claim that Mike wrote the chorus to Vega-Tables still boggles my mind, as well as the stubborness to give an inch or elaborate his reasoning here.

You Kokomoists do more to turn people against Mike than even his tactless interview talking points, and that's saying a LOT.

YEAH, MAN!!!    You said it! Reply of the week and it's only Sunday. Mujan, three well deserved whoots, no, come to think of it, four! 

[Cam Mott]

I'd have said you were a nut before, but honestly with people like Cam around Im starting to believe *some* of this is possible. That totally ridiculous claim that Mike wrote the chorus to Vega-Tables still boggles my mind, as well as the stubborness to give an inch or elaborate his reasoning here.

You Kokomoists do more to turn people against Mike than even his tactless interview talking points, and that's saying a LOT.


YEAH, MAN!!!    You said it! Reply of the week and it's only Sunday. Mujan, three well deserved whoots, no, come to think of it, four!  

You're both adorable.  (yawn)

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

you're unbelievable

Back at ya.

Hey man, at least I try to write well-thought out and reasonable explanations for my opinions. Whether you agree or disagree, like me or hate me, I dont think I can be accused of being vague or evasive about my point. WAY more than I could say for you with your dismissive, unhelpful, stubborn replies. You have no argument, but refuse to concede so. You're dead-set on defending Mike and either you cant because he's so abrasive he's left you at a loss for excuses or you have the cognitive/rhetoric skills of a child. Maybe you're a shill or a troll, I'm not sure, but at this stage I'd believe anything.

Hey man, it's all in the thread, there is no point in repeating it. We disagree and you can save your personal jabs and innuendo.

In all the time you've wasted typing these lame non-answer replies, you could have easily just copy/pasted your presumably brilliant argument or restated and clarified it, since I in my stupidity missed it before. But no. You just go on and on beating around the bush and trying to end any kind of discussion. This is elementary school stuff, man. As guitarfool likes to say, either sh*t or get off the pot. How's that for innuendo?