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Author Topic: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise  (Read 62063 times)
Nicko1234
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« Reply #50 on: October 09, 2014, 10:04:50 AM »


Mikie;

We heard the same rumors !  Whether Melinda and Jacquie didnt get along or got along , was irrelevant to the continuation of C50, in my opinion; it boiled down to money and control. I can tell you at the time Melinda had said that not continuing the C50 was one of the dumbest Beach Boy decisions ever in her opinion; at that time I certainly agreed. Now , I don't ;at the end it was great;  it ended; its over; move on.

 I was at Yankee Stadium a few weeks ago with the promoter who offered them the Madison Square Garden shows; he still can't believe they turned them down . I plead guilty ; I wish they would have played the Garden again; that would have been a great and appropriate exit.

If you could elaborate on this Ray then that would be cool.

I thought you`d said a week or two ago that you felt pretty certain that Mike must have made more from the C50 tour than he makes from his normal touring so this comment is interesting.
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« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2014, 10:15:46 AM »

The bully factor around here is off the charts.

Not being willing to reconsider what one has done and admit one has made a mistake is off the charts, too. (Unless you did in a PM, which would be fine, too.)
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« Reply #52 on: October 09, 2014, 10:15:50 AM »

Some advice moving forward: "Job", I'd suggest taking a pause before directly challenging someone the way you did here. At least know the story and the people before starting an argument or challenge like that, and if you're not sure take a few minutes to find out before throwing down. At least watch the beginning of that YouTube clip of the Wembley show where Brian dedicated the show to Melinda and Ray. Then consider posting a mea culpa of some kind, moving forward.

And I would suggest that, when I simply ask a question about how someone can be so sure about his statements, I might receive something other than a snide remark from that person and a board full of venom from the rest of you.  Get over yourselves.

Even so, the fact still remains that not even the boys themselves don't seem to know how anything went down half of the time, so such global proclamations about anything are questionable at best...no matter how "in" you are.  Get over yourself.

Declaring that two shows you were at were the best of an entire tour is 1) subjective, and 2) quite possibly not even subjectively the case if one hadn't experienced all of them.  Get over yourself.

Regarding the requests I made MONTHS ago, which were NEVER even addressed with me then: I got the picture quite some time ago.  Do you rub your dog's nose in it 12 hours after he dumps on the floor?  Again, get over yourselves.

The bully factor around here is off the charts.

And the disrespect factor toward actual insiders who chose to share inside knowledge (when they don't have to) is off the charts.

+1
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« Reply #53 on: October 09, 2014, 10:17:21 AM »

There isn't much ambiguity to the words No More Tours, if in fact an e-mail stating that was sent.
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« Reply #54 on: October 09, 2014, 10:20:25 AM »

Some advice moving forward: "Job", I'd suggest taking a pause before directly challenging someone the way you did here. At least know the story and the people before starting an argument or challenge like that, and if you're not sure take a few minutes to find out before throwing down. At least watch the beginning of that YouTube clip of the Wembley show where Brian dedicated the show to Melinda and Ray. Then consider posting a mea culpa of some kind, moving forward.
And I would suggest that, when I simply ask a question about how someone can be so sure about his statements, I might receive something other than a snide remark from that person and a board full of venom from the rest of you.  Get over yourselves.

Even so, the fact still remains that not even the boys themselves seem to know how anything went down half of the time, so such global proclamations about anything are questionable at best...no matter how "in" you are.  Get over yourself.

Declaring that two shows you were at were the best of an entire tour is 1) subjective, and 2) quite possibly not even subjectively the case if one hadn't experienced all of them.  Get over yourself.

Regarding the requests I made MONTHS ago, which were NEVER even addressed with me then: I got the picture quite some time ago.  Do you rub your dog's nose in it 12 hours after he dumps on the floor?  Again, get over yourselves.

The bully factor around here is off the charts.
Some valid points, but even if Ray wasn't who he is (a very close, caring and informed friend of BW), your posts had a bit of an edge to them.

GF, perhaps it might be appropriate to change Ray's status to "Honored Guest"? Not that "Honored Guests" can't be questioned on their statements or claims, but for people that don't follow every thread and aren't familiar with each member of the board, it might be helpful. Perhaps a required "Honored Guest" signature that explains who they are relative to the band? Ex. "I was the band's live sound engineer from 1982-1989". Bio sections can helpful for that but the reality is, in the context of reading a thread, a short signature would go a long way.

Thoughts?

The concept of "Honored Guest" works for me.  Ray is reasoned, has a tremendous frame of reference, and experiential background commensurate with that category.  

This board is "high octane" for sure with all the passion for the music.  I've said it before, that I "lurked" a couple of years before diving into the shark tank.  But the resources and experts are second-to-none.  It is still a great place to learn and exchange info.    Wink

High octane is an understatement! Surely the "honored guest" status is a personal choice but I think that a little bio/disclaimer in a signature may be appropriate for certain posters, many of whom post and respond very strongly (and rightfully so) about certain topics. Whether this is due to their honored guest status (ie likely better informed than 99% of us) or other personal/professional experience related to the band, or the music industry in general, an occasional "bio" signature may be helpful, even for the non honored guests.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 10:43:35 AM by ToneBender631 » Logged
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« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2014, 10:22:28 AM »

There isn't much ambiguity to the words No More Tours, if in fact an e-mail stating that was sent.

Not that any of us has read this mythic email, but the absence of the word "ever" makes a difference, whether one wants to admit such or not.  
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« Reply #56 on: October 09, 2014, 10:34:57 AM »

The bully factor around here is off the charts.

Not being willing to reconsider what one has done and admit one has made a mistake is off the charts, too. (Unless you did in a PM, which would be fine, too.)

That unfortunate behavioral trait (not being willing to reconsider what one has done and admit one has made a mistake) seems to fit the actions of one particular member of this band to a tee, and in my estimation, a sizable chunk of the people (not all, but a lot) who typically seem to go out of their way to defend his actions seem to often exhibit that exact same trait in posts. I don't know why this is, but I'm sure I'm not the first person to notice this either. Maybe its a case of a certain personality type defending their own.

In any case, rudeness and extreme defensiveness seem to go hand in hand, and are very uncalled for.
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« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2014, 10:38:56 AM »

I think a clarification is necessary with the issue of honored guests, as it has been mentioned in this thread. Ray declined the honored guest status and preferred to post as a regular board member, and that was the case as well with other board members who have personal connections to the group and would/could be honored guests but chose not to. Those decisions are up to the individuals and their requests are honored.
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« Reply #58 on: October 09, 2014, 10:44:20 AM »

I think a clarification is necessary with the issue of honored guests, as it has been mentioned in this thread. Ray declined the honored guest status and preferred to post as a regular board member, and that was the case as well with other board members who have personal connections to the group and would/could be honored guests but chose not to. Those decisions are up to the individuals and their requests are honored.

Thanks for clarifying! :-)
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Nicko1234
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« Reply #59 on: October 09, 2014, 10:48:02 AM »


That unfortunate behavioral trait (not being willing to reconsider what one has done and admit one has made a mistake) seems to fit the actions of one particular member of this band to a tee, and in my estimation, a sizable chunk of the people (not all, but a lot) who typically seem to go out of their way to defend his actions seem to often exhibit that exact same trait in posts. I don't know why this is, but I'm sure I'm not the first person to notice this either. Maybe its a case of a certain personality type defending their own.

In any case, rudeness and extreme defensiveness seem to go hand in hand, and are very uncalled for.

And you wouldn`t be biased at all of course.  Wink
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« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2014, 10:49:37 AM »

I gotta admit, my mental picture of you involves baseball caps.

I know I'm biased, what with being painfully oversensitive, prone to paranoia & overindulgence, and haunted by the shadow of my overwhelming and slightly abusive dad. Unfortunately I missed out on that whole musical genius part, but it definitely makes me a lot more sympathetic to BW than a strutting alpha male peacock control freak type.

I can understand people identifying a bit with their musical heroes who maybe they share some traits with, but the creepy stuff about Melinda Wilson is just weird. Most of us barely know anything about it, it's all supposition and rumor.  There's a distinct lack of stories or first hand accounts showing that she's some horrible monster driving BW like a slavemaster to do things he doesn't want to do or keeping him away from The Beach Boys. So where is all this coming from, all the wifeandmanagers/handlers putdowns? Surely there should be dozens of disgruntled bandmembers and former employees around that would spill the beans. The tone comes off like "I would be a better wife to Brian! He should've married me!" in all those comments about her. It's also condescending, cruel, and completely thoughtless.

No wonder Ray gets pissed off about it.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 11:10:44 AM by ontor pertawst » Logged
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« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2014, 11:05:50 AM »

Job and urbanite, you're too sensitive. There's no bullying going on here. Your initial posts might have been misconstrued or maybe you meant them. You stated your views and someone corrected you, that's all. A few of you guys are so damn defensive.

I made the mistake of wondering who Ray Lawlor was when I first saw his name appear on the board. I asked, "Who is this guy and how come he seems (or portrays himself) to know more than we do? Well, AGD and a couple of others straightened me out and it's now obvious that Ray is as close to an "insider" as we can get, at least to Brian.

So we must respect Ray - otherwise he's likely to bail if we don't give him some respect.

Ray, even if they don't make you an "Honored guest" here for whatever lame reason, you're welcome to come by my home anytime and shoot the breeze and listen to music over a few beers and a steak and cake.
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« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2014, 11:12:00 AM »

Speaking on non-board-affairs here in my own words, I wanted to address the issue of those people coming here to participate who are close to the band either through personal or business relationships.

What strikes me is that over the decades specific to the Beach Boys (but obviously including a large variety of bands) there have been fan gatherings, conventions, meets, etc. which often featured a Q&A session or a panel discussion with people who have personally known or worked with the band. Make a list of names through the years, everyone from people who worked with them to people who have worked with the music or archives, collectors, historians, authors, whatever the case.

They're at these events to interact with fans, take questions, share some of the "insider" stories and information that they experienced but which may not have been published or told widely in public. Stories from the road, from the studio, the "inside scoop" on some event that fans know of but may not know the full details or backstory, whatever the case. So they share this with groups of fans, who depending on the event might even pay to attend and participate in these sessions with these people. These are the "honored guests" at such events.

One example happening this weekend: Mark Linett is a featured presenter at the AES convention this weekend, and will be playing tracks from Pet Sounds and discussing working with multitracks as part of his presentation. Attendees will be able to hear directly from the man who has done more hands-on work on those tapes in the past 30+ years than anyone, and they'll attend to hear what he has to say about the work he has done, as well as to hear the tracks themselves as presented by the guy who knows them perhaps as well as anyone.

So fans basically pay money to attend these various fan conventions and conferences, they go to the Q&A and panel discussions, they go to hear a presentation about the music from the guys who actually worked on the tapes, they'll listen as someone who toured with them or worked with them in some capacity tells stories from those days...

How does that square up with some of the posts in this particular thread regarding "honored guests"? I can't help but read it as a few members of the fanbase will pay money to buy books, magazines, DVD's, whatever else to read and discover this information, yet when people who can offer the same level of information choose to come on this board to share it, there shouldn't be at least a higher level of basic respect given them?

Let me pose a question. If you were in the audience where Billy Hinsche or anyone else similarly connected to the band was giving a Q&A session, answering questions and sharing personal stories with the fans, and someone were to get up and start challenging them with phrases like "how do you know?" or asking questions directly in conflict with what was already said, what do you think would happen at that seminar/presentation/session?

I'm guessing the people who may have paid money to see and hear that "insider" whoever he or she may be share information with fans would get rightly pissed off that someone was challenging in that way. That person may be asked to leave, or in another case the presenter may finally throw up their hands and leave in frustration.

The latter has happened on this board in the past, and when it did and if it should again it is a damned shame, because a firsthand eyewitness or participant who came here to answer questions and interact with fans by choice and not asking for something in return is no longer here, and the larger fanbase loses out in favor of challenging or pushing some opinions or personal beefs.

Who wins? If a fan at a convention were to get up and start throwing challenges at Billy Hinsche or Stephen Desper or Alan Boyd or Mark Linett or Marilyn or anyone else, who wins if that person A. Quits and leaves or B. Decides not to return in the future? The larger fanbase who did come to hear the "insiders" talk loses, and that's *definitely* not what I ever want to see happen here.

This board has a really, really good mix of people close to the band who choose to post...for free. No ticket, no convention badge necessary to get in. Musicians, journalists, historians, archivists, collectors, personal friends, etc...bottom line, it can be accepted that in many cases there is information through these people which the majority of fans do not have but would probably be interested to know. I think there is or should be at least an acknowledgement of that fact along with perhaps an even greater sense of awareness in how certain things are offered as questions or comments to those people. The fact is, there are people who do know more than most about some of these issues, the other fact is some of them choose to come here to answer questions, talk, interact, etc. That is a strength of this board, a major positive that should be celebrated. Yet some are challenging the whole notion of it. It's hard to understand.

Just consider what the protocol might be at a public convention if someone were to get up to the Q&A mic and start firing off challenges and questions to an invited guest, or a featured presenter, and consider applying at least a little bit of that same protocol here on the board. Even if it isn't specifically for the so-called "insiders" personally, why it wouldn't be I can't figure out anyway, but at least for the majority of fans here who want to hear more of the inside stories and personal stuff.

My 2 cents.
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« Reply #63 on: October 09, 2014, 11:12:53 AM »

[...]

Ray, even if they don't make you an "Honored guest" here for whatever lame reason, you're welcome to come by my home anytime and shoot the breeze and listen to music over a few beers and a steak and cake.

I think a clarification is necessary with the issue of honored guests, as it has been mentioned in this thread. Ray declined the honored guest status and preferred to post as a regular board member, and that was the case as well with other board members who have personal connections to the group and would/could be honored guests but chose not to. Those decisions are up to the individuals and their requests are honored.


 Wink
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« Reply #64 on: October 09, 2014, 11:22:59 AM »


That unfortunate behavioral trait (not being willing to reconsider what one has done and admit one has made a mistake) seems to fit the actions of one particular member of this band to a tee, and in my estimation, a sizable chunk of the people (not all, but a lot) who typically seem to go out of their way to defend his actions seem to often exhibit that exact same trait in posts. I don't know why this is, but I'm sure I'm not the first person to notice this either. Maybe its a case of a certain personality type defending their own.

In any case, rudeness and extreme defensiveness seem to go hand in hand, and are very uncalled for.

And you wouldn`t be biased at all of course.  Wink

Whatever "bias" I may have, I'm more of a fan of intelligent back-and-forth convo (even if there is major disagreement) without resorting to defensive tactics. Call me crazy, and I don't mean to generalize, but I see a trend of more meanness, stonewalling and sarcastically lashing out at other board members who seem to defend one side of the BB political spectrum than the other side, at least on this board.  

Am I imagining this?

I'm sure everyone (including me) is just trying to call things as they see them, but everyone should really turn the mean-spirited sarcasm directed at each other down quite a few notches.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 11:48:28 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
ToneBender631
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« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2014, 11:24:47 AM »

Speaking on non-board-affairs here in my own words, I wanted to address the issue of those people coming here to participate who are close to the band either through personal or business relationships.

What strikes me is that over the decades specific to the Beach Boys (but obviously including a large variety of bands) there have been fan gatherings, conventions, meets, etc. which often featured a Q&A session or a panel discussion with people who have personally known or worked with the band. Make a list of names through the years, everyone from people who worked with them to people who have worked with the music or archives, collectors, historians, authors, whatever the case.

They're at these events to interact with fans, take questions, share some of the "insider" stories and information that they experienced but which may not have been published or told widely in public. Stories from the road, from the studio, the "inside scoop" on some event that fans know of but may not know the full details or backstory, whatever the case. So they share this with groups of fans, who depending on the event might even pay to attend and participate in these sessions with these people. These are the "honored guests" at such events.

One example happening this weekend: Mark Linett is a featured presenter at the AES convention this weekend, and will be playing tracks from Pet Sounds and discussing working with multitracks as part of his presentation. Attendees will be able to hear directly from the man who has done more hands-on work on those tapes in the past 30+ years than anyone, and they'll attend to hear what he has to say about the work he has done, as well as to hear the tracks themselves as presented by the guy who knows them perhaps as well as anyone.

So fans basically pay money to attend these various fan conventions and conferences, they go to the Q&A and panel discussions, they go to hear a presentation about the music from the guys who actually worked on the tapes, they'll listen as someone who toured with them or worked with them in some capacity tells stories from those days...

How does that square up with some of the posts in this particular thread regarding "honored guests"? I can't help but read it as a few members of the fanbase will pay money to buy books, magazines, DVD's, whatever else to read and discover this information, yet when people who can offer the same level of information choose to come on this board to share it, there shouldn't be at least a higher level of basic respect given them?

Let me pose a question. If you were in the audience where Billy Hinsche or anyone else similarly connected to the band was giving a Q&A session, answering questions and sharing personal stories with the fans, and someone were to get up and start challenging them with phrases like "how do you know?" or asking questions directly in conflict with what was already said, what do you think would happen at that seminar/presentation/session?

I'm guessing the people who may have paid money to see and hear that "insider" whoever he or she may be share information with fans would get rightly pissed off that someone was challenging in that way. That person may be asked to leave, or in another case the presenter may finally throw up their hands and leave in frustration.

The latter has happened on this board in the past, and when it did and if it should again it is a damned shame, because a firsthand eyewitness or participant who came here to answer questions and interact with fans by choice and not asking for something in return is no longer here, and the larger fanbase loses out in favor of challenging or pushing some opinions or personal beefs.

Who wins? If a fan at a convention were to get up and start throwing challenges at Billy Hinsche or Stephen Desper or Alan Boyd or Mark Linett or Marilyn or anyone else, who wins if that person A. Quits and leaves or B. Decides not to return in the future? The larger fanbase who did come to hear the "insiders" talk loses, and that's *definitely* not what I ever want to see happen here.

This board has a really, really good mix of people close to the band who choose to post...for free. No ticket, no convention badge necessary to get in. Musicians, journalists, historians, archivists, collectors, personal friends, etc...bottom line, it can be accepted that in many cases there is information through these people which the majority of fans do not have but would probably be interested to know. I think there is or should be at least an acknowledgement of that fact along with perhaps an even greater sense of awareness in how certain things are offered as questions or comments to those people. The fact is, there are people who do know more than most about some of these issues, the other fact is some of them choose to come here to answer questions, talk, interact, etc. That is a strength of this board, a major positive that should be celebrated. Yet some are challenging the whole notion of it. It's hard to understand.

Just consider what the protocol might be at a public convention if someone were to get up to the Q&A mic and start firing off challenges and questions to an invited guest, or a featured presenter, and consider applying at least a little bit of that same protocol here on the board. Even if it isn't specifically for the so-called "insiders" personally, why it wouldn't be I can't figure out anyway, but at least for the majority of fans here who want to hear more of the inside stories and personal stuff.

My 2 cents.

Well said! And on that topic, if anyone is going to AES in LA this weekend, I'm sure more than a few of us would like to hear how the PS Q&A/presentation goes. :-)
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« Reply #66 on: October 09, 2014, 11:29:26 AM »

Great post guitarfool!

I guess respect for distinguished guests is far too complex a concept for some here to handle. There is nothing wrong with questioning these insiders, there's something wrong when you question them in a prickish way.

We're incredibly lucky that insiders like Ray want to post here, so let's try leave the petulant "get over yourself" comments off the board...m'kay?
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« Reply #67 on: October 09, 2014, 11:32:38 AM »

Quote
Well said! And on that topic, if anyone is going to AES in LA this weekend, I'm sure more than a few of us would like to hear how the PS Q&A/presentation goes. :-)

I'll definitely be there! Anybody else? We should probably bump the thread.

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« Reply #68 on: October 09, 2014, 11:36:02 AM »

Ontor, give BW a DVDS of endless syncopation  Grin
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« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2014, 11:48:59 AM »

[...]

Ray, even if they don't make you an "Honored guest" here for whatever lame reason, you're welcome to come by my home anytime and shoot the breeze and listen to music over a few beers and a steak and cake.

I think a clarification is necessary with the issue of honored guests, as it has been mentioned in this thread. Ray declined the honored guest status and preferred to post as a regular board member, and that was the case as well with other board members who have personal connections to the group and would/could be honored guests but chose not to. Those decisions are up to the individuals and their requests are honored.


 Wink

Well, that's a lame reason!  Tongue
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #70 on: October 09, 2014, 11:51:44 AM »

Great post guitarfool!

I guess respect for distinguished guests is far too complex a concept for some here to handle. There is nothing wrong with questioning these insiders, there's something wrong when you question them in a prickish way.

We're incredibly lucky that insiders like Ray want to post here, so let's try leave the petulant "get over yourself" comments off the board...m'kay?

I asked questions.  Ray and his minions here answered them in a prickish way.  I didn't even state an opinion until I got disrespectful responses from that "honoured guest" and his minions.  You and Mikie should really go back and read chronologically.

If this is the level of respect, or lack thereof, that "honoured guests" give us commoners who worship them and spend our money on them, then who needs them?

M'kay?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 11:54:27 AM by job » Logged
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« Reply #71 on: October 09, 2014, 11:57:10 AM »

If this is the level of respect, or lack thereof, that "honoured guests" give us commoners who worship them and spend our money on them, then who needs them?
Dude, you should really stop paying Ray!? Shocked It's not worth it.
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« Reply #72 on: October 09, 2014, 11:58:31 AM »

Job, chill out and listen to Pisces brothers or something.
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« Reply #73 on: October 09, 2014, 11:58:54 AM »

It's seminal.
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Niko
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« Reply #74 on: October 09, 2014, 12:01:59 PM »

Ray posts here for the same reason the rest of us do - he wants to.

Stephen Desper, Ed Roach and all the other honored guests are here for the same reason. Their contributions help make this place much better than your average forum.

Seminality is the key word here job. Take a break with a strong puff of Mike Love, Not War and it'll all be ok.
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