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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: mikeddonn on October 08, 2014, 04:02:30 PM



Title: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: mikeddonn on October 08, 2014, 04:02:30 PM
Since around the release of Imagination (and even guest vocal spots beforehand) Brian has been in demand, more so than his old band.

The prestigious shows, the documentaries, the record deals, the tribute shows and now more recently being on McCartney's tribute album.  Then there's also being at the George Harrison Tribute show, the Hollywood film, the new album in the pipeline and now having his song chosen as a charity single featuring many many current and contemporary artists. 

It's wonderful seeing Brian's solo career continue to flourish in a way few of us could have imagined 20 years ago.  The guy is a legend and is outdoing his old band at every turn and has been for a while.  I imagine Mr Brian Douglas Wilson will have a sense of satisfaction when he thinks about it.  And Melinda and the rest of 'team' Wilson will also have wry smiles considering the criticism they've taken over the years regarding career decisions.  I'd say they've got it all spot on and Brian's legacy is safe and secure.  Thank you Brian!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 08, 2014, 04:16:50 PM
Yep! The wife and managers seem to know what they're doing, huh? At least when it comes to Brian's legacy and solo career.......


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: urbanite on October 08, 2014, 04:26:21 PM
If his wife is responsible for causing the C50 tour to breakup, I woudn't be so quick to heap praise on her.  I've read that she is also somewhat responsible for Getting In Over My Head.  I think she ought to stay out of the business of making records.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mr. Verlander on October 08, 2014, 04:31:36 PM
If his wife is responsible for causing the C50 tour to breakup, I woudn't be so quick to heap praise on her.  I've read that she is also somewhat responsible for Getting In Over My Head.  I think she ought to stay out of the business of making records.

I guess Melinda is like Mike Love-every time somebody says something positive about her, someone else quickly comes along to criticize her. I don't get it.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ray Lawlor on October 08, 2014, 04:38:22 PM
If his wife is responsible for causing the C50 tour to breakup, I woudn't be so quick to heap praise on her.  I've read that she is also somewhat responsible for Getting In Over My Head.  I think she ought to stay out of the business of making records.

You are wrong ; especially about C50


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: mikeddonn on October 08, 2014, 04:44:57 PM
I think we have a lot to thank Melinda for.  Brian seems happy with his life. 

Ray, would I be right in saying you were with Melinda at the Wembley C50 show?  I think I remember Brian making a dedication to you, and he is always happy when he spots Melinda during the shows.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mayoman on October 08, 2014, 04:46:51 PM
I think we have a lot to thank Melinda for.  Brian seems happy with his life. 

Ray, would I be right in saying you were with Melinda at the Wembley C50 show?  I think I remember Brian making a dedication to you, and he is always happy when he spots Melinda during the shows.
Probably the best clip from the whole tour: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_sMw4_R8YE


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: mikeddonn on October 08, 2014, 04:50:54 PM
Yeah that's what remember.  I agree, it was a great moment.  I remember feeling happy for Brian that Melinda and Ray were in the audience sharing it with him.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ray Lawlor on October 08, 2014, 04:52:24 PM
I think we have a lot to thank Melinda for.  Brian seems happy with his life. 

Ray, would I be right in saying you were with Melinda at the Wembley C50 show?  I think I remember Brian making a dedication to you, and he is always happy when he spots Melinda during the shows.

Yes; I was sitting next to her ....Wembley and RAH were the two best shows of the entire C50 tour.  The Beach Boys went out on a high note . They were the two best Beach Boys Concerts I had seen since Carnagie Hall , February 1971.  Hands down.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: job on October 08, 2014, 04:56:02 PM


You are wrong ; especially about C50

How do you know?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: job on October 08, 2014, 04:57:13 PM
Wembley and RAH were the two best shows of the entire C50 tour.

Really? Did you go to every C50 show? 


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ray Lawlor on October 08, 2014, 04:57:23 PM


You are wrong ; especially about C50

How do you know?

figure it out


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: alf wiedersehen on October 08, 2014, 04:57:45 PM


You are wrong ; especially about C50

How do you know?

How long have you been under that rock?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ray Lawlor on October 08, 2014, 04:58:34 PM
Wembley and RAH were the two best shows of the entire C50 tour.

Really? Did you go to every C50 show? 

I went to 25 ; how about you ?



Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Shady on October 08, 2014, 05:01:33 PM


You are wrong ; especially about C50

How do you know?

He knows


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Niko on October 08, 2014, 05:04:28 PM
Go easy on job, he's not very aware of things. Anyone see his post asking for downloads? People were like "no dont do that" and his response a day later was "downloads pls"



Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Pretty Funky on October 08, 2014, 05:15:46 PM
Wembley and RAH were the two best shows of the entire C50 tour.

Really? Did you go to every C50 show? 

I went to 25 ; how about you ?



Probably a home run right there job. I'd leave it alone now myself.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mr. Cohen on October 08, 2014, 05:59:20 PM
I am curious, though... why did Gettin' In Over My Head happen?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Pretty Funky on October 08, 2014, 06:38:23 PM
Double deal of BW Presents Smile and GIOMH from memory. Others can confirm I'm sure if this is speculation or fact.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 08, 2014, 07:02:32 PM
Some advice moving forward: "Job", I'd suggest taking a pause before directly challenging someone the way you did here. At least know the story and the people before starting an argument or challenge like that, and if you're not sure take a few minutes to find out before throwing down. At least watch the beginning of that YouTube clip of the Wembley show where Brian dedicated the show to Melinda and Ray. Then consider posting a mea culpa of some kind, moving forward.

Regarding requests for material as that was brought up, it needs to be mentioned and clarified again: It's simply not allowed on this board to publicly post PM requests or requests for material such as that. If it happens, there will be a warning followed by the usual process. All explained in the FAQ section.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ray Lawlor on October 08, 2014, 07:04:48 PM
Double deal of BW Presents Smile and GIOMH from memory. Others can confirm I'm sure if this is speculation or fact.

Correct


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Cyncie on October 08, 2014, 07:09:29 PM
Brian's getting the respect his talent and work deserves and he is definitely hitting on all cylinders right now. I'm looking forward to everything this year has to offer the fans. It's too bad The Beach  Boys wouldn't go along for the ride, but it was their (his) choice.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 08, 2014, 07:28:30 PM
If his wife is responsible for causing the C50 tour to breakup, I woudn't be so quick to heap praise on her.  I've read that she is also somewhat responsible for Getting In Over My Head.  I think she ought to stay out of the business of making records.

You are wrong ; especially about C50

It's good to know he's wrong, Ray. I was going to add "one of those responsible for the success of the C50" to my statement referring to Melinda above but I hesitated and left it at that. Persisting rumors were blowing around like a swirling wind (I heard them myself) after the tour ended; supposedly one of the reasons it came to end when it did was that Melinda and Jacqui Love did not get along very well and disagreed about money, extended schedules, Mike's floating eyeballs, etc.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 08, 2014, 07:39:24 PM
Brian's getting the respect his talent and work deserves and he is definitely hitting on all cylinders right now. I'm looking forward to everything this year has to offer the fans.

Definitely well deserved, every bit of it! Let no one try to convince otherwise. This is a body of work, a catalog of music, that has stood the test of time and I see no reasons why it will not continue to do so well after I leave this Earth. To see the recent clip featuring artists like Lorde, One Direction, those who appeal most obviously to teenagers, and to have a song nearing 50 years old be the one they're singing and their young fans are listening to (perhaps for the first time), it's proof of the lasting power of the music Brian created.

Consider that when Brian recorded God Only Knows, non-classical music that was 50 years old was on wax cylinders, before jazz or swing as most of us know it even existed beyond Dixieland, and for all intents and purposes was considered "primitive". I don't know of many if there were any at all who were actively performing and seeking out music from 1912, for example. Now we have 50 year old music that is still contemporary and being heard by millions.

That in itself is pretty amazing.  :)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: rab2591 on October 08, 2014, 07:56:19 PM
I became a fan in 2010, and consider myself blessed for what has happened during that time: In the last four years there have been two new Brian Wilson solo albums, two major boxset releases, a Beach Boys reunion, a new Beach Boys album. And now Brian is about to release another solo album (with, what Ray says, some incredible songs on it), a major motion picture about Brian Wilson, a new autobiography. All of that in just four years of being a fan.

I'm happy to see that Brian is still hard at work, and I'm glad that he's getting recognition for a lifetime of phenomenal achievement.

Here's to the next four years :beer may they be as prosperous as the last!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ray Lawlor on October 08, 2014, 08:18:04 PM
If his wife is responsible for causing the C50 tour to breakup, I woudn't be so quick to heap praise on her.  I've read that she is also somewhat responsible for Getting In Over My Head.  I think she ought to stay out of the business of making records.

You are wrong ; especially about C50

It's good to know he's wrong, Ray. I was going to add "one of those responsible for the success of the C50" to my statement referring to Melinda above but I hesitated and left it at that. Persisting rumors were blowing around like a swirling wind (I heard them myself) after the tour ended; supposedly one of the reasons it came to end when it did was that Melinda and Jacqui Love did not get along very well and disagreed about money, extended schedules, Mike's floating eyeballs, etc.

Mikie;

We heard the same rumors !  Whether Melinda and Jacquie didnt get along or got along , was irrelevant to the continuation of C50, in my opinion; it boiled down to money and control. I can tell you at the time Melinda had said that not continuing the C50 was one of the dumbest Beach Boy decisions ever in her opinion; at that time I certainly agreed. Now , I don't ;at the end it was great;  it ended; its over; move on.

 I was at Yankee Stadium a few weeks ago with the promoter who offered them the Madison Square Garden shows; he still can't believe they turned them down . I plead guilty ; I wish they would have played the Garden again; that would have been a great and appropriate exit.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Gregg on October 08, 2014, 08:58:14 PM
Brian's getting the respect his talent and work deserves and he is definitely hitting on all cylinders right now. I'm looking forward to everything this year has to offer the fans.

Definitely well deserved, every bit of it! Let no one try to convince otherwise. This is a body of work, a catalog of music, that has stood the test of time and I see no reasons why it will not continue to do so well after I leave this Earth. To see the recent clip featuring artists like Lorde, One Direction, those who appeal most obviously to teenagers, and to have a song nearing 50 years old be the one they're singing and their young fans are listening to (perhaps for the first time), it's proof of the lasting power of the music Brian created.

Consider that when Brian recorded God Only Knows, non-classical music that was 50 years old was on wax cylinders, before jazz or swing as most of us know it even existed beyond Dixieland, and for all intents and purposes was considered "primitive". I don't know of many if there were any at all who were actively performing and seeking out music from 1912, for example. Now we have 50 year old music that is still contemporary and being heard by millions.

That in itself is pretty amazing.  :)

Very well said. This production is just further testament to the timeless aspect of the music that Brian created. Like all great music that resonates with something intangible within human beings, Brian's most inspired creations will be marveled at and bring joy for generations to come.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: clack on October 08, 2014, 09:11:24 PM
As much as Mike and Bruce praise Brian, it seems as if they take him for granted. One of the half-dozen or so greatest composers of the last 50 years wants to continue to work with them, and they walk away.

I'm sure Mike had his reasons for not wanting to make another Beach Boys record, but no matter how good those reasons were, they appear remarkably short-sighted when contrasted against the long-term perspective of Brian's, and the Beach Boys place, in musical -- and indeed, cultural -- history.

Anyway, I have high hopes for No Pier Pressure. Fingers crossed.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 08, 2014, 09:20:42 PM
Now , I don't ;at the end it was great;  it ended; its over; move on.

Completely agree, Ray. I hesitated bringing that rumor up at the risk of starting yet another post-C50 crying towel argument. Pleeeeaaaase, no more!!!  :-D

I was at Yankee Stadium a few weeks ago with the promoter who offered them the Madison Square Garden shows; he still can't believe they turned them down . I plead guilty ; I wish they would have played the Garden again; that would have been a great and appropriate exit.

I can't believe it either. That's sad. The '71 shows were fantastic - Pete Fornatale alluded to it quite a few times. MSG coulda been another RFH.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Shady on October 08, 2014, 09:24:10 PM
If his wife is responsible for causing the C50 tour to breakup, I woudn't be so quick to heap praise on her.  I've read that she is also somewhat responsible for Getting In Over My Head.  I think she ought to stay out of the business of making records.

You are wrong ; especially about C50

It's good to know he's wrong, Ray. I was going to add "one of those responsible for the success of the C50" to my statement referring to Melinda above but I hesitated and left it at that. Persisting rumors were blowing around like a swirling wind (I heard them myself) after the tour ended; supposedly one of the reasons it came to end when it did was that Melinda and Jacqui Love did not get along very well and disagreed about money, extended schedules, Mike's floating eyeballs, etc.



 I was at Yankee Stadium a few weeks ago with the promoter who offered them the Madison Square Garden shows; he still can't believe they turned them down . I plead guilty ; I wish they would have played the Garden again; that would have been a great and appropriate exit.

They didn't turn them down, Mike did.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: urbanite on October 08, 2014, 09:55:57 PM



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Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise

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Quote from: urbanite on Today at 04:26:21 PM

If his wife is responsible for causing the C50 tour to breakup, I woudn't be so quick to heap praise on her.  I've read that she is also somewhat responsible for Getting In Over My Head.  I think she ought to stay out of the business of making records.


You are wrong ; especially about C50

I preceded my comment with the word "If."  I read the comments of Howie Edelson and AGD and it was my impression that MW has been a source of conflict.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 08, 2014, 10:59:30 PM
New GOK on Inside Edition today, made mention of the other artists briefly, but Brian was the only one heard.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 08, 2014, 11:24:17 PM

I preceded my comment with the word "If."  I read the comments of Howie Edelson and AGD and it was my impression that MW has been a source of conflict.

I don't recall Howie Edelson saying what you're suggesting. Could you clarify by reposting what he said so we're on the same page?


I've read that she is also somewhat responsible for Getting In Over My Head.  I think she ought to stay out of the business of making records.

Where is the "if" on that underhanded insult?  


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Lowbacca on October 09, 2014, 03:23:14 AM
Here's to the next four years :beer may they be as prosperous as the last!
I raise my cup of coffee to that.



I compiled a couple of pictures of Brian in 2014 - seems to be a good year so far!

(http://oi59.tinypic.com/9au88p.jpg)
(http://oi61.tinypic.com/x37psi.jpg)
(http://oi62.tinypic.com/2rf66v5.jpg)
(http://oi59.tinypic.com/2cpygbn.jpg)
(http://oi59.tinypic.com/bfgnlv.jpg)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 09, 2014, 04:27:31 AM
BW gets around! ;D


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 09, 2014, 06:08:12 AM
Double deal of BW Presents Smile and GIOMH from memory. Others can confirm I'm sure if this is speculation or fact.

I`m not sure that can exactly be considered, `why it happened` though.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ang Jones on October 09, 2014, 07:00:06 AM
It has always seemed to me obvious that the end of the C50 couldn't be laid at Brian or Melinda's door because if it could, then Mike would have surely made that clear when he was taking all the flak. Instead he produced several different reasons, none of which really stood up to close examination.

It seems to have been foolish to have passed up on some of the offers and an extensive UK tour as has been rumoured would have been very welcome to me but perhaps for Brian it was just as well. The touring schedule must be really hard work and what would have happened if these guys had stayed together? They seem to be able to sustain it for awhile and then there are problems. Brian's own band seem to be behind his decisions on things like the set list too whereas Mike and Brian seem to have a very different game plan.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mr. Cohen on October 09, 2014, 07:19:53 AM
Quote from: Nick1234
I`m not sure that can exactly be considered, `why it happened` though.
Right. It's just a weird album. Rough vocals and tons of old unreleased songs. With most BW albums, at least if Brian's gonna use an old song he usually reworks it a bit.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: halblaineisgood on October 09, 2014, 07:25:54 AM
Here's to the next four years :beer may they be as prosperous as the last!
I raise my cup of coffee to that.



I compiled a couple of pictures of Brian in 2014 - seems to be a good year so far!


(http://oi62.tinypic.com/2rf66v5.jpg)

I like how Zooey is doing a Spectorian pose. Reminds me of one of those photos of Larry, Phil and Nino Tempo in the Gold Star booth!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 09, 2014, 07:29:40 AM
BW is playing the Stan Ross or Larry Levine role. ;)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: job on October 09, 2014, 08:02:12 AM
Some advice moving forward: "Job", I'd suggest taking a pause before directly challenging someone the way you did here. At least know the story and the people before starting an argument or challenge like that, and if you're not sure take a few minutes to find out before throwing down. At least watch the beginning of that YouTube clip of the Wembley show where Brian dedicated the show to Melinda and Ray. Then consider posting a mea culpa of some kind, moving forward.

And I would suggest that, when I simply ask a question about how someone can be so sure about his statements, I might receive something other than a snide remark from that person and a board full of venom from the rest of you.  Get over yourselves.

Even so, the fact still remains that not even the boys themselves don't seem to know how anything went down half of the time, so such global proclamations about anything are questionable at best...no matter how "in" you are.  Get over yourself.

Declaring that two shows you were at were the best of an entire tour is 1) subjective, and 2) quite possibly not even subjectively the case if one hadn't experienced all of them.  Get over yourself.

Regarding the requests I made MONTHS ago, which were NEVER even addressed with me then: I got the picture quite some time ago.  Do you rub your dog's nose in it 12 hours after he dumps on the floor?  Again, get over yourselves.

The bully factor around here is off the charts.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mr. Cohen on October 09, 2014, 08:06:35 AM
Job, you're not allowed to question friends of the band. They lay down the law and their word is gospel.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: job on October 09, 2014, 08:09:26 AM
Job, you're not allowed to question friends of the band. They lay down the law and their word is gospel.

LOL.  They should just make it the "Friends of the Band" Board.  Cool guy central.  That would be riveting.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ToneBender631 on October 09, 2014, 08:22:28 AM
Some advice moving forward: "Job", I'd suggest taking a pause before directly challenging someone the way you did here. At least know the story and the people before starting an argument or challenge like that, and if you're not sure take a few minutes to find out before throwing down. At least watch the beginning of that YouTube clip of the Wembley show where Brian dedicated the show to Melinda and Ray. Then consider posting a mea culpa of some kind, moving forward.

And I would suggest that, when I simply ask a question about how someone can be so sure about his statements, I might receive something other than a snide remark from that person and a board full of venom from the rest of you.  Get over yourselves.

Even so, the fact still remains that not even the boys themselves seem to know how anything went down half of the time, so such global proclamations about anything are questionable at best...no matter how "in" you are.  Get over yourself.

Declaring that two shows you were at were the best of an entire tour is 1) subjective, and 2) quite possibly not even subjectively the case if one hadn't experienced all of them.  Get over yourself.

Regarding the requests I made MONTHS ago, which were NEVER even addressed with me then: I got the picture quite some time ago.  Do you rub your dog's nose in it 12 hours after he dumps on the floor?  Again, get over yourselves.

The bully factor around here is off the charts.

Some valid points, but even if Ray wasn't who he is (a very close, caring and informed friend of BW), your posts had a bit of an edge to them.

GF, perhaps it might be appropriate to change Ray's status to "Honored Guest"? Not that "Honored Guests" can't be questioned on their statements or claims, but for people that don't follow every thread and aren't familiar with each member of the board, it might be helpful. Perhaps a required "Honored Guest" signature that explains who they are relative to the band? Ex. "I was the band's live sound engineer from 1982-1989". Bio sections can helpful for that but the reality is, in the context of reading a thread, a short signature would go a long way.

Thoughts?



Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Robbie Mac on October 09, 2014, 08:55:18 AM
Some advice moving forward: "Job", I'd suggest taking a pause before directly challenging someone the way you did here. At least know the story and the people before starting an argument or challenge like that, and if you're not sure take a few minutes to find out before throwing down. At least watch the beginning of that YouTube clip of the Wembley show where Brian dedicated the show to Melinda and Ray. Then consider posting a mea culpa of some kind, moving forward.

And I would suggest that, when I simply ask a question about how someone can be so sure about his statements, I might receive something other than a snide remark from that person and a board full of venom from the rest of you.  Get over yourselves.

Even so, the fact still remains that not even the boys themselves don't seem to know how anything went down half of the time, so such global proclamations about anything are questionable at best...no matter how "in" you are.  Get over yourself.

Declaring that two shows you were at were the best of an entire tour is 1) subjective, and 2) quite possibly not even subjectively the case if one hadn't experienced all of them.  Get over yourself.

Regarding the requests I made MONTHS ago, which were NEVER even addressed with me then: I got the picture quite some time ago.  Do you rub your dog's nose in it 12 hours after he dumps on the floor?  Again, get over yourselves.

The bully factor around here is off the charts.

And the disrespect factor toward actual insiders who chose to share inside knowledge (when they don't have to) is off the charts.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: filledeplage on October 09, 2014, 08:59:09 AM
Some advice moving forward: "Job", I'd suggest taking a pause before directly challenging someone the way you did here. At least know the story and the people before starting an argument or challenge like that, and if you're not sure take a few minutes to find out before throwing down. At least watch the beginning of that YouTube clip of the Wembley show where Brian dedicated the show to Melinda and Ray. Then consider posting a mea culpa of some kind, moving forward.
And I would suggest that, when I simply ask a question about how someone can be so sure about his statements, I might receive something other than a snide remark from that person and a board full of venom from the rest of you.  Get over yourselves.

Even so, the fact still remains that not even the boys themselves seem to know how anything went down half of the time, so such global proclamations about anything are questionable at best...no matter how "in" you are.  Get over yourself.

Declaring that two shows you were at were the best of an entire tour is 1) subjective, and 2) quite possibly not even subjectively the case if one hadn't experienced all of them.  Get over yourself.

Regarding the requests I made MONTHS ago, which were NEVER even addressed with me then: I got the picture quite some time ago.  Do you rub your dog's nose in it 12 hours after he dumps on the floor?  Again, get over yourselves.

The bully factor around here is off the charts.
Some valid points, but even if Ray wasn't who he is (a very close, caring and informed friend of BW), your posts had a bit of an edge to them.

GF, perhaps it might be appropriate to change Ray's status to "Honored Guest"? Not that "Honored Guests" can't be questioned on their statements or claims, but for people that don't follow every thread and aren't familiar with each member of the board, it might be helpful. Perhaps a required "Honored Guest" signature that explains who they are relative to the band? Ex. "I was the band's live sound engineer from 1982-1989". Bio sections can helpful for that but the reality is, in the context of reading a thread, a short signature would go a long way.

Thoughts?

The concept of "Honored Guest" works for me.  Ray is reasoned, has a tremendous frame of reference, and experiential background commensurate with that category.  

This board is "high octane" for sure with all the passion for the music.  I've said it before, that I "lurked" a couple of years before diving into the shark tank.  But the resources and experts are second-to-none.  It is still a great place to learn and exchange info.    ;)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: LeeDempsey on October 09, 2014, 09:32:55 AM
While I can't speak for Ray, I do know that he's basically one of us fans who happened to be introduced to someone special, hit it off with them, and has become a true and close friend.  I also know that he's not one to go around waving that flag.  But when his friends are attacked he will defend them (as most of us would), and when suppositions on this board are incorrect he will correct them.  I know I've made him less than happy at times by writing things critical of Brian in ESQ (a la my reviews of GIOMH and Brian's Christmas album), and I respect his feelings on that.  Historically Ray has kept a low profile, but recently I think he's had to "out" himself in order to correct mistruths and squash rumors -- which is unfortunate.

I agree that Ray deserves "Honored Guest" status, but I suspect he will choose to keep a lower profile.

Lee


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: urbanite on October 09, 2014, 09:33:58 AM
If Melinda Wilson had nothing to do with the end of C50, then who sent the e-mail to Mike Love that said No More Tours?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 09, 2014, 09:48:27 AM
Some advice moving forward: "Job", I'd suggest taking a pause before directly challenging someone the way you did here. At least know the story and the people before starting an argument or challenge like that, and if you're not sure take a few minutes to find out before throwing down. At least watch the beginning of that YouTube clip of the Wembley show where Brian dedicated the show to Melinda and Ray. Then consider posting a mea culpa of some kind, moving forward.

And I would suggest that, when I simply ask a question about how someone can be so sure about his statements, I might receive something other than a snide remark from that person and a board full of venom from the rest of you.  Get over yourselves.

Even so, the fact still remains that not even the boys themselves don't seem to know how anything went down half of the time, so such global proclamations about anything are questionable at best...no matter how "in" you are.  Get over yourself.

Declaring that two shows you were at were the best of an entire tour is 1) subjective, and 2) quite possibly not even subjectively the case if one hadn't experienced all of them.  Get over yourself.

Regarding the requests I made MONTHS ago, which were NEVER even addressed with me then: I got the picture quite some time ago.  Do you rub your dog's nose in it 12 hours after he dumps on the floor?  Again, get over yourselves.

The bully factor around here is off the charts.

And the disrespect factor toward actual insiders who chose to share inside knowledge (when they don't have to) is off the charts.

Exactly.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ang Jones on October 09, 2014, 09:59:53 AM
If Melinda Wilson had nothing to do with the end of C50, then who sent the e-mail to Mike Love that said No More Tours?

One email can be taken out of context. What was this in response to?  And why didn't Mike give this reason in his letter to the LA Times? Instead, it seems to have just been leaked later on, with no details as to context. As evidence goes, this seems pretty shaky.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 09, 2014, 10:04:50 AM

Mikie;

We heard the same rumors !  Whether Melinda and Jacquie didnt get along or got along , was irrelevant to the continuation of C50, in my opinion; it boiled down to money and control. I can tell you at the time Melinda had said that not continuing the C50 was one of the dumbest Beach Boy decisions ever in her opinion; at that time I certainly agreed. Now , I don't ;at the end it was great;  it ended; its over; move on.

 I was at Yankee Stadium a few weeks ago with the promoter who offered them the Madison Square Garden shows; he still can't believe they turned them down . I plead guilty ; I wish they would have played the Garden again; that would have been a great and appropriate exit.

If you could elaborate on this Ray then that would be cool.

I thought you`d said a week or two ago that you felt pretty certain that Mike must have made more from the C50 tour than he makes from his normal touring so this comment is interesting.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Micha on October 09, 2014, 10:15:46 AM
The bully factor around here is off the charts.

Not being willing to reconsider what one has done and admit one has made a mistake is off the charts, too. (Unless you did in a PM, which would be fine, too.)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 09, 2014, 10:15:50 AM
Some advice moving forward: "Job", I'd suggest taking a pause before directly challenging someone the way you did here. At least know the story and the people before starting an argument or challenge like that, and if you're not sure take a few minutes to find out before throwing down. At least watch the beginning of that YouTube clip of the Wembley show where Brian dedicated the show to Melinda and Ray. Then consider posting a mea culpa of some kind, moving forward.

And I would suggest that, when I simply ask a question about how someone can be so sure about his statements, I might receive something other than a snide remark from that person and a board full of venom from the rest of you.  Get over yourselves.

Even so, the fact still remains that not even the boys themselves don't seem to know how anything went down half of the time, so such global proclamations about anything are questionable at best...no matter how "in" you are.  Get over yourself.

Declaring that two shows you were at were the best of an entire tour is 1) subjective, and 2) quite possibly not even subjectively the case if one hadn't experienced all of them.  Get over yourself.

Regarding the requests I made MONTHS ago, which were NEVER even addressed with me then: I got the picture quite some time ago.  Do you rub your dog's nose in it 12 hours after he dumps on the floor?  Again, get over yourselves.

The bully factor around here is off the charts.

And the disrespect factor toward actual insiders who chose to share inside knowledge (when they don't have to) is off the charts.

+1


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: urbanite on October 09, 2014, 10:17:21 AM
There isn't much ambiguity to the words No More Tours, if in fact an e-mail stating that was sent.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ToneBender631 on October 09, 2014, 10:20:25 AM
Some advice moving forward: "Job", I'd suggest taking a pause before directly challenging someone the way you did here. At least know the story and the people before starting an argument or challenge like that, and if you're not sure take a few minutes to find out before throwing down. At least watch the beginning of that YouTube clip of the Wembley show where Brian dedicated the show to Melinda and Ray. Then consider posting a mea culpa of some kind, moving forward.
And I would suggest that, when I simply ask a question about how someone can be so sure about his statements, I might receive something other than a snide remark from that person and a board full of venom from the rest of you.  Get over yourselves.

Even so, the fact still remains that not even the boys themselves seem to know how anything went down half of the time, so such global proclamations about anything are questionable at best...no matter how "in" you are.  Get over yourself.

Declaring that two shows you were at were the best of an entire tour is 1) subjective, and 2) quite possibly not even subjectively the case if one hadn't experienced all of them.  Get over yourself.

Regarding the requests I made MONTHS ago, which were NEVER even addressed with me then: I got the picture quite some time ago.  Do you rub your dog's nose in it 12 hours after he dumps on the floor?  Again, get over yourselves.

The bully factor around here is off the charts.
Some valid points, but even if Ray wasn't who he is (a very close, caring and informed friend of BW), your posts had a bit of an edge to them.

GF, perhaps it might be appropriate to change Ray's status to "Honored Guest"? Not that "Honored Guests" can't be questioned on their statements or claims, but for people that don't follow every thread and aren't familiar with each member of the board, it might be helpful. Perhaps a required "Honored Guest" signature that explains who they are relative to the band? Ex. "I was the band's live sound engineer from 1982-1989". Bio sections can helpful for that but the reality is, in the context of reading a thread, a short signature would go a long way.

Thoughts?

The concept of "Honored Guest" works for me.  Ray is reasoned, has a tremendous frame of reference, and experiential background commensurate with that category.  

This board is "high octane" for sure with all the passion for the music.  I've said it before, that I "lurked" a couple of years before diving into the shark tank.  But the resources and experts are second-to-none.  It is still a great place to learn and exchange info.    ;)

High octane is an understatement! Surely the "honored guest" status is a personal choice but I think that a little bio/disclaimer in a signature may be appropriate for certain posters, many of whom post and respond very strongly (and rightfully so) about certain topics. Whether this is due to their honored guest status (ie likely better informed than 99% of us) or other personal/professional experience related to the band, or the music industry in general, an occasional "bio" signature may be helpful, even for the non honored guests.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 09, 2014, 10:22:28 AM
There isn't much ambiguity to the words No More Tours, if in fact an e-mail stating that was sent.

Not that any of us has read this mythic email, but the absence of the word "ever" makes a difference, whether one wants to admit such or not.  


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 09, 2014, 10:34:57 AM
The bully factor around here is off the charts.

Not being willing to reconsider what one has done and admit one has made a mistake is off the charts, too. (Unless you did in a PM, which would be fine, too.)

That unfortunate behavioral trait (not being willing to reconsider what one has done and admit one has made a mistake) seems to fit the actions of one particular member of this band to a tee, and in my estimation, a sizable chunk of the people (not all, but a lot) who typically seem to go out of their way to defend his actions seem to often exhibit that exact same trait in posts. I don't know why this is, but I'm sure I'm not the first person to notice this either. Maybe its a case of a certain personality type defending their own.

In any case, rudeness and extreme defensiveness seem to go hand in hand, and are very uncalled for.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 09, 2014, 10:38:56 AM
I think a clarification is necessary with the issue of honored guests, as it has been mentioned in this thread. Ray declined the honored guest status and preferred to post as a regular board member, and that was the case as well with other board members who have personal connections to the group and would/could be honored guests but chose not to. Those decisions are up to the individuals and their requests are honored.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ToneBender631 on October 09, 2014, 10:44:20 AM
I think a clarification is necessary with the issue of honored guests, as it has been mentioned in this thread. Ray declined the honored guest status and preferred to post as a regular board member, and that was the case as well with other board members who have personal connections to the group and would/could be honored guests but chose not to. Those decisions are up to the individuals and their requests are honored.

Thanks for clarifying! :-)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 09, 2014, 10:48:02 AM

That unfortunate behavioral trait (not being willing to reconsider what one has done and admit one has made a mistake) seems to fit the actions of one particular member of this band to a tee, and in my estimation, a sizable chunk of the people (not all, but a lot) who typically seem to go out of their way to defend his actions seem to often exhibit that exact same trait in posts. I don't know why this is, but I'm sure I'm not the first person to notice this either. Maybe its a case of a certain personality type defending their own.

In any case, rudeness and extreme defensiveness seem to go hand in hand, and are very uncalled for.

And you wouldn`t be biased at all of course.  ;)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ontor pertawst on October 09, 2014, 10:49:37 AM
I gotta admit, my mental picture of you involves baseball caps.

I know I'm biased, what with being painfully oversensitive, prone to paranoia & overindulgence, and haunted by the shadow of my overwhelming and slightly abusive dad. Unfortunately I missed out on that whole musical genius part, but it definitely makes me a lot more sympathetic to BW than a strutting alpha male peacock control freak type.

I can understand people identifying a bit with their musical heroes who maybe they share some traits with, but the creepy stuff about Melinda Wilson is just weird. Most of us barely know anything about it, it's all supposition and rumor.  There's a distinct lack of stories or first hand accounts showing that she's some horrible monster driving BW like a slavemaster to do things he doesn't want to do or keeping him away from The Beach Boys. So where is all this coming from, all the wifeandmanagers/handlers putdowns? Surely there should be dozens of disgruntled bandmembers and former employees around that would spill the beans. The tone comes off like "I would be a better wife to Brian! He should've married me!" in all those comments about her. It's also condescending, cruel, and completely thoughtless.

No wonder Ray gets pissed off about it.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 09, 2014, 11:05:50 AM
Job and urbanite, you're too sensitive. There's no bullying going on here. Your initial posts might have been misconstrued or maybe you meant them. You stated your views and someone corrected you, that's all. A few of you guys are so damn defensive.

I made the mistake of wondering who Ray Lawlor was when I first saw his name appear on the board. I asked, "Who is this guy and how come he seems (or portrays himself) to know more than we do? Well, AGD and a couple of others straightened me out and it's now obvious that Ray is as close to an "insider" as we can get, at least to Brian.

So we must respect Ray - otherwise he's likely to bail if we don't give him some respect.

Ray, even if they don't make you an "Honored guest" here for whatever lame reason, you're welcome to come by my home anytime and shoot the breeze and listen to music over a few beers and a steak and cake.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 09, 2014, 11:12:00 AM
Speaking on non-board-affairs here in my own words, I wanted to address the issue of those people coming here to participate who are close to the band either through personal or business relationships.

What strikes me is that over the decades specific to the Beach Boys (but obviously including a large variety of bands) there have been fan gatherings, conventions, meets, etc. which often featured a Q&A session or a panel discussion with people who have personally known or worked with the band. Make a list of names through the years, everyone from people who worked with them to people who have worked with the music or archives, collectors, historians, authors, whatever the case.

They're at these events to interact with fans, take questions, share some of the "insider" stories and information that they experienced but which may not have been published or told widely in public. Stories from the road, from the studio, the "inside scoop" on some event that fans know of but may not know the full details or backstory, whatever the case. So they share this with groups of fans, who depending on the event might even pay to attend and participate in these sessions with these people. These are the "honored guests" at such events.

One example happening this weekend: Mark Linett is a featured presenter at the AES convention this weekend, and will be playing tracks from Pet Sounds and discussing working with multitracks as part of his presentation. Attendees will be able to hear directly from the man who has done more hands-on work on those tapes in the past 30+ years than anyone, and they'll attend to hear what he has to say about the work he has done, as well as to hear the tracks themselves as presented by the guy who knows them perhaps as well as anyone.

So fans basically pay money to attend these various fan conventions and conferences, they go to the Q&A and panel discussions, they go to hear a presentation about the music from the guys who actually worked on the tapes, they'll listen as someone who toured with them or worked with them in some capacity tells stories from those days...

How does that square up with some of the posts in this particular thread regarding "honored guests"? I can't help but read it as a few members of the fanbase will pay money to buy books, magazines, DVD's, whatever else to read and discover this information, yet when people who can offer the same level of information choose to come on this board to share it, there shouldn't be at least a higher level of basic respect given them?

Let me pose a question. If you were in the audience where Billy Hinsche or anyone else similarly connected to the band was giving a Q&A session, answering questions and sharing personal stories with the fans, and someone were to get up and start challenging them with phrases like "how do you know?" or asking questions directly in conflict with what was already said, what do you think would happen at that seminar/presentation/session?

I'm guessing the people who may have paid money to see and hear that "insider" whoever he or she may be share information with fans would get rightly pissed off that someone was challenging in that way. That person may be asked to leave, or in another case the presenter may finally throw up their hands and leave in frustration.

The latter has happened on this board in the past, and when it did and if it should again it is a damned shame, because a firsthand eyewitness or participant who came here to answer questions and interact with fans by choice and not asking for something in return is no longer here, and the larger fanbase loses out in favor of challenging or pushing some opinions or personal beefs.

Who wins? If a fan at a convention were to get up and start throwing challenges at Billy Hinsche or Stephen Desper or Alan Boyd or Mark Linett or Marilyn or anyone else, who wins if that person A. Quits and leaves or B. Decides not to return in the future? The larger fanbase who did come to hear the "insiders" talk loses, and that's *definitely* not what I ever want to see happen here.

This board has a really, really good mix of people close to the band who choose to post...for free. No ticket, no convention badge necessary to get in. Musicians, journalists, historians, archivists, collectors, personal friends, etc...bottom line, it can be accepted that in many cases there is information through these people which the majority of fans do not have but would probably be interested to know. I think there is or should be at least an acknowledgement of that fact along with perhaps an even greater sense of awareness in how certain things are offered as questions or comments to those people. The fact is, there are people who do know more than most about some of these issues, the other fact is some of them choose to come here to answer questions, talk, interact, etc. That is a strength of this board, a major positive that should be celebrated. Yet some are challenging the whole notion of it. It's hard to understand.

Just consider what the protocol might be at a public convention if someone were to get up to the Q&A mic and start firing off challenges and questions to an invited guest, or a featured presenter, and consider applying at least a little bit of that same protocol here on the board. Even if it isn't specifically for the so-called "insiders" personally, why it wouldn't be I can't figure out anyway, but at least for the majority of fans here who want to hear more of the inside stories and personal stuff.

My 2 cents.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Lowbacca on October 09, 2014, 11:12:53 AM
[...]

Ray, even if they don't make you an "Honored guest" here for whatever lame reason, you're welcome to come by my home anytime and shoot the breeze and listen to music over a few beers and a steak and cake.

I think a clarification is necessary with the issue of honored guests, as it has been mentioned in this thread. Ray declined the honored guest status and preferred to post as a regular board member, and that was the case as well with other board members who have personal connections to the group and would/could be honored guests but chose not to. Those decisions are up to the individuals and their requests are honored.


 ;)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 09, 2014, 11:22:59 AM

That unfortunate behavioral trait (not being willing to reconsider what one has done and admit one has made a mistake) seems to fit the actions of one particular member of this band to a tee, and in my estimation, a sizable chunk of the people (not all, but a lot) who typically seem to go out of their way to defend his actions seem to often exhibit that exact same trait in posts. I don't know why this is, but I'm sure I'm not the first person to notice this either. Maybe its a case of a certain personality type defending their own.

In any case, rudeness and extreme defensiveness seem to go hand in hand, and are very uncalled for.

And you wouldn`t be biased at all of course.  ;)

Whatever "bias" I may have, I'm more of a fan of intelligent back-and-forth convo (even if there is major disagreement) without resorting to defensive tactics. Call me crazy, and I don't mean to generalize, but I see a trend of more meanness, stonewalling and sarcastically lashing out at other board members who seem to defend one side of the BB political spectrum than the other side, at least on this board.  

Am I imagining this?

I'm sure everyone (including me) is just trying to call things as they see them, but everyone should really turn the mean-spirited sarcasm directed at each other down quite a few notches.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ToneBender631 on October 09, 2014, 11:24:47 AM
Speaking on non-board-affairs here in my own words, I wanted to address the issue of those people coming here to participate who are close to the band either through personal or business relationships.

What strikes me is that over the decades specific to the Beach Boys (but obviously including a large variety of bands) there have been fan gatherings, conventions, meets, etc. which often featured a Q&A session or a panel discussion with people who have personally known or worked with the band. Make a list of names through the years, everyone from people who worked with them to people who have worked with the music or archives, collectors, historians, authors, whatever the case.

They're at these events to interact with fans, take questions, share some of the "insider" stories and information that they experienced but which may not have been published or told widely in public. Stories from the road, from the studio, the "inside scoop" on some event that fans know of but may not know the full details or backstory, whatever the case. So they share this with groups of fans, who depending on the event might even pay to attend and participate in these sessions with these people. These are the "honored guests" at such events.

One example happening this weekend: Mark Linett is a featured presenter at the AES convention this weekend, and will be playing tracks from Pet Sounds and discussing working with multitracks as part of his presentation. Attendees will be able to hear directly from the man who has done more hands-on work on those tapes in the past 30+ years than anyone, and they'll attend to hear what he has to say about the work he has done, as well as to hear the tracks themselves as presented by the guy who knows them perhaps as well as anyone.

So fans basically pay money to attend these various fan conventions and conferences, they go to the Q&A and panel discussions, they go to hear a presentation about the music from the guys who actually worked on the tapes, they'll listen as someone who toured with them or worked with them in some capacity tells stories from those days...

How does that square up with some of the posts in this particular thread regarding "honored guests"? I can't help but read it as a few members of the fanbase will pay money to buy books, magazines, DVD's, whatever else to read and discover this information, yet when people who can offer the same level of information choose to come on this board to share it, there shouldn't be at least a higher level of basic respect given them?

Let me pose a question. If you were in the audience where Billy Hinsche or anyone else similarly connected to the band was giving a Q&A session, answering questions and sharing personal stories with the fans, and someone were to get up and start challenging them with phrases like "how do you know?" or asking questions directly in conflict with what was already said, what do you think would happen at that seminar/presentation/session?

I'm guessing the people who may have paid money to see and hear that "insider" whoever he or she may be share information with fans would get rightly pissed off that someone was challenging in that way. That person may be asked to leave, or in another case the presenter may finally throw up their hands and leave in frustration.

The latter has happened on this board in the past, and when it did and if it should again it is a damned shame, because a firsthand eyewitness or participant who came here to answer questions and interact with fans by choice and not asking for something in return is no longer here, and the larger fanbase loses out in favor of challenging or pushing some opinions or personal beefs.

Who wins? If a fan at a convention were to get up and start throwing challenges at Billy Hinsche or Stephen Desper or Alan Boyd or Mark Linett or Marilyn or anyone else, who wins if that person A. Quits and leaves or B. Decides not to return in the future? The larger fanbase who did come to hear the "insiders" talk loses, and that's *definitely* not what I ever want to see happen here.

This board has a really, really good mix of people close to the band who choose to post...for free. No ticket, no convention badge necessary to get in. Musicians, journalists, historians, archivists, collectors, personal friends, etc...bottom line, it can be accepted that in many cases there is information through these people which the majority of fans do not have but would probably be interested to know. I think there is or should be at least an acknowledgement of that fact along with perhaps an even greater sense of awareness in how certain things are offered as questions or comments to those people. The fact is, there are people who do know more than most about some of these issues, the other fact is some of them choose to come here to answer questions, talk, interact, etc. That is a strength of this board, a major positive that should be celebrated. Yet some are challenging the whole notion of it. It's hard to understand.

Just consider what the protocol might be at a public convention if someone were to get up to the Q&A mic and start firing off challenges and questions to an invited guest, or a featured presenter, and consider applying at least a little bit of that same protocol here on the board. Even if it isn't specifically for the so-called "insiders" personally, why it wouldn't be I can't figure out anyway, but at least for the majority of fans here who want to hear more of the inside stories and personal stuff.

My 2 cents.

Well said! And on that topic, if anyone is going to AES in LA this weekend, I'm sure more than a few of us would like to hear how the PS Q&A/presentation goes. :-)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: rab2591 on October 09, 2014, 11:29:26 AM
Great post guitarfool!

I guess respect for distinguished guests is far too complex a concept for some here to handle. There is nothing wrong with questioning these insiders, there's something wrong when you question them in a prickish way.

We're incredibly lucky that insiders like Ray want to post here, so let's try leave the petulant "get over yourself" comments off the board...m'kay?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ontor pertawst on October 09, 2014, 11:32:38 AM
Quote
Well said! And on that topic, if anyone is going to AES in LA this weekend, I'm sure more than a few of us would like to hear how the PS Q&A/presentation goes. :-)

I'll definitely be there! Anybody else? We should probably bump the thread.



Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 09, 2014, 11:36:02 AM
Ontor, give BW a DVDS of endless syncopation  ;D


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 09, 2014, 11:48:59 AM
[...]

Ray, even if they don't make you an "Honored guest" here for whatever lame reason, you're welcome to come by my home anytime and shoot the breeze and listen to music over a few beers and a steak and cake.

I think a clarification is necessary with the issue of honored guests, as it has been mentioned in this thread. Ray declined the honored guest status and preferred to post as a regular board member, and that was the case as well with other board members who have personal connections to the group and would/could be honored guests but chose not to. Those decisions are up to the individuals and their requests are honored.


 ;)

Well, that's a lame reason!  :P


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: job on October 09, 2014, 11:51:44 AM
Great post guitarfool!

I guess respect for distinguished guests is far too complex a concept for some here to handle. There is nothing wrong with questioning these insiders, there's something wrong when you question them in a prickish way.

We're incredibly lucky that insiders like Ray want to post here, so let's try leave the petulant "get over yourself" comments off the board...m'kay?

I asked questions.  Ray and his minions here answered them in a prickish way.  I didn't even state an opinion until I got disrespectful responses from that "honoured guest" and his minions.  You and Mikie should really go back and read chronologically.

If this is the level of respect, or lack thereof, that "honoured guests" give us commoners who worship them and spend our money on them, then who needs them?

M'kay?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Lowbacca on October 09, 2014, 11:57:10 AM
If this is the level of respect, or lack thereof, that "honoured guests" give us commoners who worship them and spend our money on them, then who needs them?
Dude, you should really stop paying Ray!? :o It's not worth it.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 09, 2014, 11:58:31 AM
Job, chill out and listen to Pisces brothers or something.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ontor pertawst on October 09, 2014, 11:58:54 AM
It's seminal.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Niko on October 09, 2014, 12:01:59 PM
Ray posts here for the same reason the rest of us do - he wants to.

Stephen Desper, Ed Roach and all the other honored guests are here for the same reason. Their contributions help make this place much better than your average forum.

Seminality is the key word here job. Take a break with a strong puff of Mike Love, Not War and it'll all be ok.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: alf wiedersehen on October 09, 2014, 12:06:09 PM
Great post guitarfool!

I guess respect for distinguished guests is far too complex a concept for some here to handle. There is nothing wrong with questioning these insiders, there's something wrong when you question them in a prickish way.

We're incredibly lucky that insiders like Ray want to post here, so let's try leave the petulant "get over yourself" comments off the board...m'kay?

I asked questions.  Ray and his minions here answered them in a prickish way.  I didn't even state an opinion until I got disrespectful responses from that "honoured guest" and his minions.  You and Mikie should really go back and read chronologically.

If this is the level of respect, or lack thereof, that "honoured guests" give us commoners who worship them and spend our money on them, then who needs them?

M'kay?

You didn't really ask questions so much, but just sort of blatantly challenged Ray's knowledge. If you had asked a question of him, I don't think many would have minded. However, you sort of blindly did a "and who are you" to one of Brian's close friends and made a fool of yourself. You were wrong and now you're lashing out. There's no use in trying to make yourself a victim.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 09, 2014, 12:06:26 PM
Obviously I agree that people should show respect on the board and a comment such as, `How do you know?` could be interpreted as rude or abrupt (even if it was not intended in this way).

I think asking if posters can elaborate or add flesh to the bones is only natural though as it helps to give a fuller picture of things.

As sometimes even writers the honored guests (or those who maybe could be honored guests if they chose), such as Jon Stebbins, Howie Edelson and Ray Lawlor, have very different opinions on the same issues (such as the role of Melinda and Mike`s wife in the end of the C50 tour) then it makes sense sometimes to ask for more info if possible.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: rab2591 on October 09, 2014, 12:12:54 PM
Great post guitarfool!

I guess respect for distinguished guests is far too complex a concept for some here to handle. There is nothing wrong with questioning these insiders, there's something wrong when you question them in a prickish way.

We're incredibly lucky that insiders like Ray want to post here, so let's try leave the petulant "get over yourself" comments off the board...m'kay?

I asked questions.  Ray and his minions here answered them in a prickish way.  I didn't even state an opinion until I got disrespectful responses from that "honoured guest" and his minions.  You and Mikie should really go back and read chronologically.

If this is the level of respect, or lack thereof, that "honoured guests" give us commoners who worship them and spend our money on them, then who needs them?

M'kay?

Wembley and RAH were the two best shows of the entire C50 tour.

Really? Did you go to every C50 show? 

This is a prickish way to ask a question. To borrow Guitarfool's example, I'd love to see you say these exact words if you were at a Beach Boys seminar during a Q&A with Ray. And btw, those who are arguing against your posts aren't minions of the insiders, just posters with a sense of respect for the board.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: job on October 09, 2014, 12:14:57 PM
Great post guitarfool!

I guess respect for distinguished guests is far too complex a concept for some here to handle. There is nothing wrong with questioning these insiders, there's something wrong when you question them in a prickish way.

We're incredibly lucky that insiders like Ray want to post here, so let's try leave the petulant "get over yourself" comments off the board...m'kay?

I asked questions.  Ray and his minions here answered them in a prickish way.  I didn't even state an opinion until I got disrespectful responses from that "honoured guest" and his minions.  You and Mikie should really go back and read chronologically.

If this is the level of respect, or lack thereof, that "honoured guests" give us commoners who worship them and spend our money on them, then who needs them?

M'kay?

You didn't really ask questions so much, but just sort of blatantly challenged Ray's knowledge. If you had asked a question of him, I don't think many would have minded. However, you sort of blindly did a "and who are you" to one of Brian's close friends and made a fool of yourself. You were wrong and now you're lashing out. There's no use in trying to make yourself a victim.

"How do you know?" is a question.  "and who are you" is you putting words in my mouth.  I could never make a fool of myself by asking questions in order to gain understanding.  So, no, I was not wrong.  I do not lash out.  I do, however, seek improvements to a board that I love when I see it becoming elitist and nasty.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: job on October 09, 2014, 12:17:49 PM
And btw, those who are arguing against your posts aren't minions of the insiders, just posters with a sense of respect for the board.

Now if they could just develop a sense of respect for their fellow posters.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ontor pertawst on October 09, 2014, 12:19:36 PM
Yup, it sure is wonderful seeing Brian's solo career continue to flourish in a way few of us could have imagined 20 years ago.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: rab2591 on October 09, 2014, 12:20:09 PM
And btw, those who are arguing against your posts aren't minions of the insiders, just posters with a sense of respect for the board.

Now if they could just develop a sense of respect for their fellow posters.

Don't expect respect if you don't give it.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: hypehat on October 09, 2014, 12:22:05 PM
And btw, those who are arguing against your posts aren't minions of the insiders, just posters with a sense of respect for the board.

Now if they could just develop a sense of respect for their fellow posters.

Your posts are doing a great job of showing that you don't deserve the respect of your fellow posters. Attacking the general tenor of the board and being a prickly bastard has not been scientifically proven to engender respect here, but you could prove us all wrong! Be the prickliest bastard you can be!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Niko on October 09, 2014, 12:26:20 PM
So, no, I was not wrong.  I do not lash out.  I do, however, seek improvements to a board that I love when I see it becoming elitist and nasty.

This is being defensive and lashing out:

Now if they could just develop a sense of respect for their fellow posters.

Just chill.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 09, 2014, 12:37:32 PM
Obviously I agree that people should show respect on the board and a comment such as, `How do you know?` could be interpreted as rude or abrupt (even if it was not intended in this way).

Giving Job the benefit of the doubt, there are two ways to ask that question. It's the tone of voice that differentiates the two. There's, "How do you know?", which isn't so bad (as in, "Would you please provide me with the evidence or information that you have as I don't have the answer myself"). Then there's, "How do you know?" which has more of an 'accusation' or 'confrontational' tone to it. But the tone may not come out as intended in writing, only verbally. So again, giving Job the benefit of the doubt (he's a big fan with a big Beach Boys collection and he's OK in my book) maybe he didn't mean for the question to Ray to come out as confrontational.  

At work, when somebody gives me a dirty look, I say, "Hey, don't look at me with that tone of voice!" and it confuses them.  ;D



Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 09, 2014, 12:44:41 PM
Attacking the general tenor of the board and being a prickly bastard has not been scientifically proven to engender respect here, but you could prove us all wrong! Be the prickliest bastard you can be!

Now what's that do other than throw more fuel on the fire??


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: hypehat on October 09, 2014, 12:50:36 PM
Attacking the general tenor of the board and being a prickly bastard has not been scientifically proven to engender respect here, but you could prove us all wrong! Be the prickliest bastard you can be!

Now what's that do other than throw more fuel on the fire??

Er, make a point? Why should someone new call people 'minions' of another poster and still expect the nice treatment? It's insulting, which as we all know, is the way to make friends on the internet.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: bgas on October 09, 2014, 12:53:37 PM
Attacking the general tenor of the board and being a prickly bastard has not been scientifically proven to engender respect here, but you could prove us all wrong! Be the prickliest bastard you can be!

Now what's that do other than throw more fuel on the fire??

Finally!!  Someone brings it back around to Smile


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 09, 2014, 12:57:05 PM
Yeah. Just what we need, more Smile. I am sooooooo burnt out on SMiLE!!

What was this thread about again?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: pixletwin on October 09, 2014, 01:00:06 PM
I remember a hearing a story, told by Ringo Starr, about how just after he had become famous he was at his aunt's house for a family gathering. When she brought him some tea she spilled a bit of it on the table and everyone started making a big huge fuss about it and how embarrassed Ringo was about how they reacted.

The turn of this thread reminds me of that story.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: donald on October 09, 2014, 01:04:00 PM
I don't social network because I don't want to be involved in petty disputes and distractions, and unnecessary displays of rudeness and disrespect toward others.  I see enough of that sort of thing here.  Sometimes get my fill, right here.

But back on topic, it is a banner year for BDW!!!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Lowbacca on October 09, 2014, 01:16:41 PM
This is how I imagine some honoured guests must feel at times:

(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/126/71737988.gif)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: job on October 09, 2014, 01:55:56 PM
At work, when somebody gives me a dirty look, I say, "Hey, don't look at me with that tone of voice!" and it confuses them.  ;D



LOL.  I gotta remember that one.  Especially as an HR Director!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: halblaineisgood on October 09, 2014, 01:56:56 PM
Hi all,
I have drank deeply from the seminal fluids of the lovester. Thanks to this turbulent forum for recommending this practice to me.

Cheers all,
The last jarhead


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: J.G. Dev on October 09, 2014, 03:32:53 PM
If someone saw ONE THIRD of the C50 shows, including the last ones in London, and said those were the best.....That's good enough for me.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 09, 2014, 03:40:13 PM
I was trying to figure out how to try moving this whole thing forward, getting back to the first post's message, which was a positive one for the events surrounding Brian Wilson in 2014. I'm not sure how to encourage that, to be honest. But I need to get this off my chest, for better or worse before leaving this behind.

This is specifically to the poster "job": This could have been a case-closed deal back on page one. I wasn't nasty, I was not confrontational, I suggested that you take a mea culpa in light of the follow-ups to the posts that started all this, which could have been as simple as suggesting it was a misunderstanding, it was taken the wrong way, I didn't mean it that way, I didn't know, no hard feelings, whatever the case.

Not only did that not happen, but my suggestion to you was answered with more negatives, more challenges, and it escalated into 3 more pages of it. Pages full of hostility and bad feelings. Not cool at all.

My own fault here was mentioning the download/PM request issues. I *should have* separated that issue from me talking in the thread and put it separately as a board issue, which is what it is. *I* did not see the original exchange...I and the other moderators do not see or read everything as its posted, sometimes until we're made aware. But if something is brought up that could be a problem for the board in general, it gets addressed. This issue in particular is perhaps more of an issue now than it was in years past, so if it comes up, it will be addressed and clarified. The position is clear, and everyone needs to be clear on it. So that was my bad by not separating that issue from everything else.


Here's the point: Again, it doesn't have to be anything beyond just reaching out and saying "it was a misunderstanding", or anything along those lines. To keep pushing the issue, and pushing it even more to the point where the term "minions" is used which is a total swipe at a lot of people who don't deserve it, not to mention an escalating conflict situation that got worse and got personal to the point where good people were dragged through the muck for no reason...


...just consider a few words posted to page one could have helped avoid some of the negativity and bad feelings that followed. Instead, the suggestion to do that was met with more venom, "get over yourselves", all of that. I don't think that's the way most posters here would like to see this forum, and I know I'd rather not see it again.

A few words now would help move things forward as well, but that's an individual choice. I get into squabbles, disagreements, mud-slinging, all of it myself admittedly too often. But when I do cross the line, when I'm wrong, I try to reach out and either apologize or at least make things right where applicable. That's not saying I can't and don't hold and argue very strong opinions, but if I'm wrong and am proven wrong I'll fess up and admit it here. Mea culpa.

Or, I'll simply walk away from it, which perhaps could have also prevented all of this.

I want the honored guests, friends of the band, associates, historians, anyone and everyone to feel welcome here, to post and share here, and also to feel like a certain basic level of respect will be the order of the day. Is that asking for a consensus of agreement, or anything close to that? No, but that level of respect and admitting when someone may have been wrong or went too far in a discussion carries a lot of weight for everyone, honored guests included.

If some would want the board to be known for the kind of negativity that was said and done in this thread and directed to people who didn't deserve it, feel free to ignore all of that. But I'd rather have more "honored guests" considered friends of the board and its membership, who wouldn't hesitate to log on and chat with us fans. Simple as that.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: hypehat on October 09, 2014, 04:06:10 PM
^ a very real and good post.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: pixletwin on October 09, 2014, 04:11:50 PM
^ a very real and good post.

Agreed. Hopefully the thread can move on.

I don't social network because I don't want to be involved in petty disputes and distractions, and unnecessary displays of rudeness and disrespect toward others.  I see enough of that sort of thing here.  Sometimes get my fill, right here.

But back on topic, it is a banner year for BDW!!!

I think it's been a banner DECADE for BDW!  :)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Peter Reum on October 09, 2014, 04:25:37 PM
As with all "automobile accidents," the parties involved and the other onlookers all have a differing POV. The end of the C50 Tour definitely qualifies as a wreck. The people involved in the enterprise were shocked by the reception they received worldwide. It was as if the group was back in the 60s or 70s. It is only human to be intoxicated by the reception they received, not just from the crowds, but from each other. It was fun again to be a Beach Boy. Those moments are to be treasured, as they are fairly unique since the deaths of Dennis and Carl Wilson. The important thing is that Brian is creating again after the sadness has worn off. This is a family, first and foremost. It felt to the members of the group like a harmonious family for the first time since ???? These people are first only human, and are a family, and in the end, that is the abiding truth. It's a family business, and families do not always see eye to eye. Here's to many more years of music from Brian, Mike, Alan, David, and Bruce..... whether they reunite or don't.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: bgas on October 09, 2014, 04:30:37 PM
Hey, How about them Cardinals?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: CenturyDeprived on October 09, 2014, 06:21:53 PM
I was trying to figure out how to try moving this whole thing forward, getting back to the first post's message, which was a positive one for the events surrounding Brian Wilson in 2014. I'm not sure how to encourage that, to be honest. But I need to get this off my chest, for better or worse before leaving this behind.

This is specifically to the poster "job": This could have been a case-closed deal back on page one. I wasn't nasty, I was not confrontational, I suggested that you take a mea culpa in light of the follow-ups to the posts that started all this, which could have been as simple as suggesting it was a misunderstanding, it was taken the wrong way, I didn't mean it that way, I didn't know, no hard feelings, whatever the case.

Not only did that not happen, but my suggestion to you was answered with more negatives, more challenges, and it escalated into 3 more pages of it. Pages full of hostility and bad feelings. Not cool at all.

My own fault here was mentioning the download/PM request issues. I *should have* separated that issue from me talking in the thread and put it separately as a board issue, which is what it is. *I* did not see the original exchange...I and the other moderators do not see or read everything as its posted, sometimes until we're made aware. But if something is brought up that could be a problem for the board in general, it gets addressed. This issue in particular is perhaps more of an issue now than it was in years past, so if it comes up, it will be addressed and clarified. The position is clear, and everyone needs to be clear on it. So that was my bad by not separating that issue from everything else.


Here's the point: Again, it doesn't have to be anything beyond just reaching out and saying "it was a misunderstanding", or anything along those lines. To keep pushing the issue, and pushing it even more to the point where the term "minions" is used which is a total swipe at a lot of people who don't deserve it, not to mention an escalating conflict situation that got worse and got personal to the point where good people were dragged through the muck for no reason...


...just consider a few words posted to page one could have helped avoid some of the negativity and bad feelings that followed. Instead, the suggestion to do that was met with more venom, "get over yourselves", all of that. I don't think that's the way most posters here would like to see this forum, and I know I'd rather not see it again.

A few words now would help move things forward as well, but that's an individual choice. I get into squabbles, disagreements, mud-slinging, all of it myself admittedly too often. But when I do cross the line, when I'm wrong, I try to reach out and either apologize or at least make things right where applicable. That's not saying I can't and don't hold and argue very strong opinions, but if I'm wrong and am proven wrong I'll fess up and admit it here. Mea culpa.

Or, I'll simply walk away from it, which perhaps could have also prevented all of this.

I want the honored guests, friends of the band, associates, historians, anyone and everyone to feel welcome here, to post and share here, and also to feel like a certain basic level of respect will be the order of the day. Is that asking for a consensus of agreement, or anything close to that? No, but that level of respect and admitting when someone may have been wrong or went too far in a discussion carries a lot of weight for everyone, honored guests included.

If some would want the board to be known for the kind of negativity that was said and done in this thread and directed to people who didn't deserve it, feel free to ignore all of that. But I'd rather have more "honored guests" considered friends of the board and its membership, who wouldn't hesitate to log on and chat with us fans. Simple as that.

Very good post, and to sum it up, it's ultimately down a basic level of acting maturely to each other.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 09, 2014, 08:22:23 PM
Hey, How about them Cardinals?

Hey, how about them Giants?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ron on October 09, 2014, 11:37:41 PM
Since around the release of Imagination (and even guest vocal spots beforehand) Brian has been in demand, more so than his old band.

The prestigious shows, the documentaries, the record deals, the tribute shows and now more recently being on McCartney's tribute album.  Then there's also being at the George Harrison Tribute show, the Hollywood film, the new album in the pipeline and now having his song chosen as a charity single featuring many many current and contemporary artists. 

It's wonderful seeing Brian's solo career continue to flourish in a way few of us could have imagined 20 years ago.  The guy is a legend and is outdoing his old band at every turn and has been for a while.  I imagine Mr Brian Douglas Wilson will have a sense of satisfaction when he thinks about it.  And Melinda and the rest of 'team' Wilson will also have wry smiles considering the criticism they've taken over the years regarding career decisions.  I'd say they've got it all spot on and Brian's legacy is safe and secure.  Thank you Brian!

I agree with all of that, except for your incessant need to insult the Beach Boys. 


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Jim V. on October 10, 2014, 07:05:49 AM
Since around the release of Imagination (and even guest vocal spots beforehand) Brian has been in demand, more so than his old band.

The prestigious shows, the documentaries, the record deals, the tribute shows and now more recently being on McCartney's tribute album.  Then there's also being at the George Harrison Tribute show, the Hollywood film, the new album in the pipeline and now having his song chosen as a charity single featuring many many current and contemporary artists. 

It's wonderful seeing Brian's solo career continue to flourish in a way few of us could have imagined 20 years ago.  The guy is a legend and is outdoing his old band at every turn and has been for a while.  I imagine Mr Brian Douglas Wilson will have a sense of satisfaction when he thinks about it.  And Melinda and the rest of 'team' Wilson will also have wry smiles considering the criticism they've taken over the years regarding career decisions.  I'd say they've got it all spot on and Brian's legacy is safe and secure.  Thank you Brian!

I agree with all of that, except for your incessant need to insult the Beach Boys. 

Sorry, but whereas this "incessant need" that you see? I see him mentioning obvious things. Brian has outdone what "The Beach Boys" have done since 1998. Recording-wise he surely has, as the group "The Beach Boys" hasn't recorded anything without him in this time period. Also, he did outdo them in the live show department with his Pet Sounds and SMiLE live tours, amongst others. And wouldn't you know it, after he raised the bar, the Mike and Bruce show also upped their game, putting on some of their most varied shows. And one would have to imagine that Mike dug deeper and did deeper material because of what Brian was doing. Sure seems like it to me, as he showed little to no interest in doing much in the way of deep cuts pre-2004 (or at the very least, not many...maybe an "All This Is That" here, or maybe a "Sail On, Sailor" there). So yeah, Brian outdid "The Beach Boys".

Is he now? Well touring-wise, there's not much competition. Mike's out there, he ain't for the most part. On the other hand, BRIAN WILSON is out there with the new "God Only Knows" BBC thing, whereas maybe it could've been a BEACH BOYS thing if Mike hadn't decided to end what Brian and Al wanted to continue. And recording-wise, well there's no competition. Even if Brian's album is bad, at least he has the guts to release it. Mike on the other hand, has had a solid, workmanlike album done since when, the BWPS era, which he's apparently afraid to release. So yeah. I want Mike to prove me wrong and make some moves. But as of now, he's just being risk-averse old Mike. Which yes, keeps things on an even keel, but at the same time makes for less highs.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Summer_Days on October 10, 2014, 08:23:19 AM
Hey, How about them Cardinals?

Hey, how about them Giants?

Hey, how about them Rockies?

Oh wait, they suck. *sigh*


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: pmugghc on October 10, 2014, 08:46:01 AM
I think we have a lot to thank Melinda for.  Brian seems happy with his life. 

Ray, would I be right in saying you were with Melinda at the Wembley C50 show?  I think I remember Brian making a dedication to you, and he is always happy when he spots Melinda during the shows.

Yes; I was sitting next to her ....Wembley and RAH were the two best shows of the entire C50 tour.  The Beach Boys went out on a high note . They were the two best Beach Boys Concerts I had seen since Carnagie Hall , February 1971.  Hands down.

Is there any chance the Wembley or RAH show could get released on a CD/DVD?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on October 10, 2014, 10:16:49 AM
Great post guitarfool!

I guess respect for distinguished guests is far too complex a concept for some here to handle. There is nothing wrong with questioning these insiders, there's something wrong when you question them in a prickish way.

We're incredibly lucky that insiders like Ray want to post here, so let's try leave the petulant "get over yourself" comments off the board...m'kay?

I asked questions.  Ray and his minions here answered them in a prickish way.  I didn't even state an opinion until I got disrespectful responses from that "honoured guest" and his minions.  You and Mikie should really go back and read chronologically.

If this is the level of respect, or lack thereof, that "honoured guests" give us commoners who worship them and spend our money on them, then who needs them?

M'kay?

Reading your recent posts, strikes me you've forfeited any right to respect here by your aggressive, and incidentally inaccurate, postings. Of all who post here, Ray knows, because he was there. Of course, he has his own point of view - don't we all ? - but if he says something is so, it is SO. He has no minions, and certainly isn't Melinda's lapdog/mouthpiece.

My suggestion to making this forum a better place is your absence.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: bgas on October 10, 2014, 10:19:02 AM
Great post guitarfool!

I guess respect for distinguished guests is far too complex a concept for some here to handle. There is nothing wrong with questioning these insiders, there's something wrong when you question them in a prickish way.

We're incredibly lucky that insiders like Ray want to post here, so let's try leave the petulant "get over yourself" comments off the board...m'kay?

I asked questions.  Ray and his minions here answered them in a prickish way.  I didn't even state an opinion until I got disrespectful responses from that "honoured guest" and his minions.  You and Mikie should really go back and read chronologically.

If this is the level of respect, or lack thereof, that "honoured guests" give us commoners who worship them and spend our money on them, then who needs them?

M'kay?

Reading your recent posts, strikes me you've forfeited any right to respect here by your aggressive, and incidentally inaccurate, postings. Of all who post here, Ray knows, because he was there. Of course, he has his own point of view - don't we all ? - but if he says something is so, it is SO. He has no minions, and certainly isn't Melinda's lapdog/mouthpiece.

My suggestion to making this forum a better place is your absence.

I'll be one of Ray's minions if it means spending time with BRian


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Wirestone on October 10, 2014, 10:20:35 AM
I think we have a lot to thank Melinda for.  Brian seems happy with his life. 

Ray, would I be right in saying you were with Melinda at the Wembley C50 show?  I think I remember Brian making a dedication to you, and he is always happy when he spots Melinda during the shows.

Yes; I was sitting next to her ....Wembley and RAH were the two best shows of the entire C50 tour.  The Beach Boys went out on a high note . They were the two best Beach Boys Concerts I had seen since Carnagie Hall , February 1971.  Hands down.

Is there any chance the Wembley or RAH show could get released on a CD/DVD?

It is my understanding that the show wasn't professionally filmed.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: bgas on October 10, 2014, 10:25:37 AM
I think we have a lot to thank Melinda for.  Brian seems happy with his life. 

Ray, would I be right in saying you were with Melinda at the Wembley C50 show?  I think I remember Brian making a dedication to you, and he is always happy when he spots Melinda during the shows.

Yes; I was sitting next to her ....Wembley and RAH were the two best shows of the entire C50 tour.  The Beach Boys went out on a high note . They were the two best Beach Boys Concerts I had seen since Carnagie Hall , February 1971.  Hands down.

Is there any chance the Wembley or RAH show could get released on a CD/DVD?

It is my understanding that the show wasn't professionally filmed.

Which doesn't mean they can't still be released, only that it won't be " artist sourced".
There's always a chance someone recorded them and might release it


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 10, 2014, 10:38:02 AM
Blimey there must have been a thousand GoPro-type cameras dotted around the stage at the RAH! They surely captured something at least…


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: bgas on October 10, 2014, 10:41:03 AM
Blimey there must have been a thousand GoPro-type cameras dotted around the stage at the RAH! They surely captured something at least…

Figuring you got all of their names/infos, are you planning to edit them into a complete CD/DVD?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 10, 2014, 10:44:15 AM
I think we have a lot to thank Melinda for.  Brian seems happy with his life. 

Ray, would I be right in saying you were with Melinda at the Wembley C50 show?  I think I remember Brian making a dedication to you, and he is always happy when he spots Melinda during the shows.

Yes; I was sitting next to her ....Wembley and RAH were the two best shows of the entire C50 tour.  The Beach Boys went out on a high note . They were the two best Beach Boys Concerts I had seen since Carnagie Hall , February 1971.  Hands down.

Is there any chance the Wembley or RAH show could get released on a CD/DVD?

It is my understanding that the show wasn't professionally filmed.

If that's true, it would be most unfortunate. We have the audio, but I'm sure the video is/would be fantastic.

Hey, at least we have Japan.  They should formally release that one on DVD.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: bgas on October 10, 2014, 11:04:55 AM
I think we have a lot to thank Melinda for.  Brian seems happy with his life. 

Ray, would I be right in saying you were with Melinda at the Wembley C50 show?  I think I remember Brian making a dedication to you, and he is always happy when he spots Melinda during the shows.

Yes; I was sitting next to her ....Wembley and RAH were the two best shows of the entire C50 tour.  The Beach Boys went out on a high note . They were the two best Beach Boys Concerts I had seen since Carnagie Hall , February 1971.  Hands down.

Is there any chance the Wembley or RAH show could get released on a CD/DVD?

It is my understanding that the show wasn't professionally filmed.

If that's true, it would be most unfortunate. We have the audio, but I'm sure the video is/would be fantastic.

Hey, at least we have Japan.  They should formally release that one on DVD.

ah yes, the famous, " we'll always have Japan..."


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: job on October 10, 2014, 12:46:00 PM
Great post guitarfool!

I guess respect for distinguished guests is far too complex a concept for some here to handle. There is nothing wrong with questioning these insiders, there's something wrong when you question them in a prickish way.

We're incredibly lucky that insiders like Ray want to post here, so let's try leave the petulant "get over yourself" comments off the board...m'kay?

I asked questions.  Ray and his minions here answered them in a prickish way.  I didn't even state an opinion until I got disrespectful responses from that "honoured guest" and his minions.  You and Mikie should really go back and read chronologically.

If this is the level of respect, or lack thereof, that "honoured guests" give us commoners who worship them and spend our money on them, then who needs them?

M'kay?

Reading your recent posts, strikes me you've forfeited any right to respect here by your aggressive, and incidentally inaccurate, postings. Of all who post here, Ray knows, because he was there. Of course, he has his own point of view - don't we all ? - but if he says something is so, it is SO. He has no minions, and certainly isn't Melinda's lapdog/mouthpiece.

My suggestion to making this forum a better place is your absence.

This from the Cliff Claven of the board.  LOL.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: alf wiedersehen on October 10, 2014, 12:48:53 PM
That is a solid Cheers reference.
I respect that.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Wirestone on October 10, 2014, 01:04:37 PM
There were tiny cameras onstage (for reference / venue video screens?), but there wasn't a professional HD rig. So you could release something, but it would have a lot of image distortion.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Debbie Keil-Leavitt on October 10, 2014, 01:20:18 PM
And thus speaks "Woody?"


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 10, 2014, 01:22:00 PM
Blimey there must have been a thousand GoPro-type cameras dotted around the stage at the RAH! They surely captured something at least…

Figuring you got all of their names/infos, are you planning to edit them into a complete CD/DVD?

Dotted around the stage - not the audience. There were other, more capable cameras being wielded around on stage too, if memory serves. Assume the audio would have been professionally recorded also, if they were going to all that effort with the visuals.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ontor pertawst on October 10, 2014, 01:26:10 PM
Somebody send me all the recordings and I'll cut it together over a long weekend. Lazy so and sos!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: rab2591 on October 10, 2014, 01:47:03 PM
And thus speaks "Woody?"

Cheers to that :beer


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 10, 2014, 01:57:30 PM
Norm!!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: job on October 10, 2014, 01:58:28 PM
And thus speaks "Woody?"

Touche!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 10, 2014, 04:07:23 PM
Great post guitarfool!

I guess respect for distinguished guests is far too complex a concept for some here to handle. There is nothing wrong with questioning these insiders, there's something wrong when you question them in a prickish way.

We're incredibly lucky that insiders like Ray want to post here, so let's try leave the petulant "get over yourself" comments off the board...m'kay?

I asked questions.  Ray and his minions here answered them in a prickish way.  I didn't even state an opinion until I got disrespectful responses from that "honoured guest" and his minions.  You and Mikie should really go back and read chronologically.

If this is the level of respect, or lack thereof, that "honoured guests" give us commoners who worship them and spend our money on them, then who needs them?

M'kay?

Reading your recent posts, strikes me you've forfeited any right to respect here by your aggressive, and incidentally inaccurate, postings. Of all who post here, Ray knows, because he was there. Of course, he has his own point of view - don't we all ? - but if he says something is so, it is SO. He has no minions, and certainly isn't Melinda's lapdog/mouthpiece.

My suggestion to making this forum a better place is your absence.

This from the Cliff Claven of the board.  LOL.


In light of everything that has happened in this thread, in light of you being given several opportunities to at least reach out and say something nice or give a virtual handshake to the folks here and say "I may have been out of line, I want things to be cool" even if it's not a direct apology, this joke is the result of all of that? Back on page one you never even answered the question how many shows you saw! Suppose you had simply said "I saw them in (blank) city, and they were terrific, I liked this, didn;t like that, etc..." In other words, turn it into a conversation instead of hostility and defensiveness. Or simply say, I misunderstood, I didn't know, etc. And *move forward* with respect all around.

That choice has been offered several times since then, I count *2* at least from me, board members who are good people have been upset or angered by this, and yet...nothing.

The classy way, the respectful way to have approached this was in my opinion to at least offer some kind of a admission that things said may have gone too far, too personal, etc. People are responding as they have been because Ray is a good friend of the board, one of the best, and we really, really like to have him here as a friend. Andrew is a friend of the board as well, and he's rightfully pissed off for the reasons he posted, what was said was out of line and not what the board is or should be about. That lack of respect and lack of "fessing up" is not how things should be.

My patience here has run out. People do not want to have this kind of stuff on the board, period. It could all be solved with a simple admission that things got out of hand, maybe even an apology direct or indirect. But consider the last chance has already passed. Officially, it ends here.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 10, 2014, 04:15:40 PM
And I apologize in general to the readers checking in to this thread to read about Brian Wilson, for bringing that back into the thread, but I'm angry and upset by this. I'm not going to watch as friends to many of us and friends of the board in general go through this with no sense that the situation was magically made right and we can just move forward. There has to be something more concrete offered than this to move forward. Let me say again, this is not what the board is, and it can be (and is) much better than the last pages of this thread may suggest.



Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 10, 2014, 04:16:22 PM
With thanks.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: job on October 10, 2014, 04:35:19 PM
And one last time:  I'm not going to apologize for simply asking questions.  I am not going to apologize for defending myself when people unjustly jumped down my throat.  So either be angry or get over it, but the Lord of the Flies mentality is getting old.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 10, 2014, 04:40:56 PM
And one last time:  I'm not going to apologize for simply asking questions.  I am not going to apologize for defending myself when people unjustly jumped down my throat.  So either be angry or get over it, but the Lord of the Flies mentality is getting old.


The opportunities were given several times, it didn't need to be in the form of an apology, but at least an acknowledgement that maybe it had gone too far. Since that seems to be too much to ask, despite the fact that doing so either on page one or here on page 6 could have helped smooth things out and perhaps create a sense that at least "we're good", this cannot and will not continue.

And saying "get over it" is the tipping point. Officially.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: bgas on October 10, 2014, 04:46:36 PM
Bye job


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Wirestone on October 10, 2014, 04:51:32 PM
Well, this was real.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on October 10, 2014, 04:56:02 PM
I'm mostly offended because I thought that I was the Cliff Clavin of the board. Or, at least, Lilith.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Debbie Keil-Leavitt on October 10, 2014, 05:10:09 PM
Thanks Guitar Fool for taking this further, necessary step re: Job.  I believe this Board does have the minimum requirement of being an adult, so...


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Niko on October 10, 2014, 05:14:55 PM
Now he'll never get those unsurpassed masters CDs :(


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Robbie Mac on October 10, 2014, 05:30:48 PM
Great post guitarfool!

I guess respect for distinguished guests is far too complex a concept for some here to handle. There is nothing wrong with questioning these insiders, there's something wrong when you question them in a prickish way.

We're incredibly lucky that insiders like Ray want to post here, so let's try leave the petulant "get over yourself" comments off the board...m'kay?

I asked questions.  Ray and his minions here answered them in a prickish way.  I didn't even state an opinion until I got disrespectful responses from that "honoured guest" and his minions.  You and Mikie should really go back and read chronologically.

If this is the level of respect, or lack thereof, that "honoured guests" give us commoners who worship them and spend our money on them, then who needs them?

M'kay?

Reading your recent posts, strikes me you've forfeited any right to respect here by your aggressive, and incidentally inaccurate, postings. Of all who post here, Ray knows, because he was there. Of course, he has his own point of view - don't we all ? - but if he says something is so, it is SO. He has no minions, and certainly isn't Melinda's lapdog/mouthpiece.

My suggestion to making this forum a better place is your absence.

This from the Cliff Claven of the board.  LOL.

Nice to see that Gary from Gary's Olde Town Tavern gave you the night off.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Heartical Don on October 11, 2014, 01:01:50 AM
Great post guitarfool!

I guess respect for distinguished guests is far too complex a concept for some here to handle. There is nothing wrong with questioning these insiders, there's something wrong when you question them in a prickish way.

We're incredibly lucky that insiders like Ray want to post here, so let's try leave the petulant "get over yourself" comments off the board...m'kay?

I asked questions.  Ray and his minions here answered them in a prickish way.  I didn't even state an opinion until I got disrespectful responses from that "honoured guest" and his minions.  You and Mikie should really go back and read chronologically.

If this is the level of respect, or lack thereof, that "honoured guests" give us commoners who worship them and spend our money on them, then who needs them?

M'kay?

Reading your recent posts, strikes me you've forfeited any right to respect here by your aggressive, and incidentally inaccurate, postings. Of all who post here, Ray knows, because he was there. Of course, he has his own point of view - don't we all ? - but if he says something is so, it is SO. He has no minions, and certainly isn't Melinda's lapdog/mouthpiece.

My suggestion to making this forum a better place is your absence.

This from the Cliff Claven of the board.  LOL.

Nice to see that Gary from Gary's Olde Town Tavern gave you the night off.

Well, we do already have a Cliff Clavin... can I be Norm then? Who's going to the Hungry Heifer with me tonight?

(http://www.visitmeridian.com/default/cache/file/BDED661D-D38F-4CD9-A3571ACD1E7834FE.jpg)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on October 11, 2014, 02:11:18 AM
And one last time:  I'm not going to apologize for simply asking questions.  I am not going to apologize for defending myself when people unjustly jumped down my throat.  So either be angry or get over it, but the Lord of the Flies mentality is getting old.

Seems he forgot the third option...  :lol


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 11, 2014, 02:34:21 AM
If Job has been banned then that would seem a great shame. He has only ever posted informed and thoughtful posts about the group in the past and is certainly a diehard and knowledgeable fan.

This thread is trivial in comparison to what many other posters, myself very probably included, have contributed over the years.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Jay on October 11, 2014, 03:08:55 AM
I think Mikie hit the nail on the head a few pages back, regarding the "How do you know?" question. Let us not forget that it's not easy to tell emotion and inflection over a message board. The question asked by job may well have been a genuine, well meaning question of asking if or how Ray knew something as an actual fact, or just opinion. To others, it read as an aggressive attack. It seems to me that job's first big "mistake" was not knowing who Ray is, and having the guts to question him on something. To be honest, I didn't actually know who Ray was either until somebody informed me via pm that he is an "insider". I do know and understand the fact that certain members here should at times be shown a little more respect than others. After all, these people occasionally go out of their way to give us information we might normally not be able to have access to. But I also see an all to frequent "Us versus them" attitude. Let's not forget that we have all been a noob fan at one time or another, and we all can't know when a certain person has "ties" to parties involved that we don't, and that their word and knowledge on something is absolute fact, and is not to be questioned. Now having said all that, I do agree that job's posts about Ray's "minions", and saying things like "who needs them" was way out of line and inappropriate. But I do understand job's initial anger at the attitude given him way back at the beginning of this thread.

This place really gives me a headache at times. *sigh*


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ang Jones on October 11, 2014, 03:24:20 AM
I wouldn't describe some of his posts in this thread as either informed or thoughtful. Some of the bits that particularly annoyed me have already been quoted - don't want to give them another airing! But he was warned several times and politely.

The 'how do you know?' thing - it may not have been meant rudely but pretty easy to word it in a better way. In any case, and sorry for repeating myself here, it seems pretty obvious to me from the fact that Mike didn't give this as one of his several reasons for the end of the C50 that Melinda was not the one to blame.  





Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 11, 2014, 03:27:45 AM
I wouldn't describe some of his posts in this thread as either informed or thoughtful. Some of the bits that particularly annoyed me have already been quoted - don't want to give them another airing! But he was warned several times and politely.

The 'how do you know?' thing - it may not have been meant rudely but pretty easy to word it in a better way. In any case, and sorry for repeating myself here, it seems pretty obvious to me from the fact that Mike didn't give this as one of his several reasons for the end of the C50 that Melinda was not the one to blame.  





Nobody described them like that.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: rab2591 on October 11, 2014, 03:27:58 AM
I'm sorry, but questions like "Really? Did you go to every C50 show?" are dripping with sarcasm. I've mentioned that Pet Sounds is the greatest album of all time. It's fairly obvious that I'm stating my opinion, and no one ever asked me "Really? Have you listened to every album ever made?" because it's a pointless, sarcastic question. I don't care if you're talking to an insider or an outsider, it's just a rude way to talk to someone.

Not only that, but continuously pissing off three respected posters (including a moderator) isn't the best way to avoid getting banned.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ang Jones on October 11, 2014, 05:12:10 AM
I'm sorry, but questions like "Really? Did you go to every C50 show?" are dripping with sarcasm. I've mentioned that Pet Sounds is the greatest album of all time. It's fairly obvious that I'm stating my opinion, and no one ever asked me "Really? Have you listened to every album ever made?" because it's a pointless, sarcastic question. I don't care if you're talking to an insider or an outsider, it's just a rude way to talk to someone.

Not only that, but continuously pissing off three respected posters (including a moderator) isn't the best way to avoid getting banned.

Agreed.

I wouldn't describe some of his posts in this thread as either informed or thoughtful. Some of the bits that particularly annoyed me have already been quoted - don't want to give them another airing! But he was warned several times and politely.






Nobody described them like that.

I didn't write that they had.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on October 11, 2014, 06:45:57 AM
If Job has been banned then that would seem a great shame. He has only ever posted informed and thoughtful posts about the group in the past and is certainly a diehard and knowledgeable fan.

I agree with you, not only for the reasons you stated, but because this ban reaches new heights of hypocrisy.

In the God Only Knows thread, guitarfool2002 disagreed with a poster's opinion and wrote, "When you post bullshit, and that's what it is...you'll get called out and rightfully so." guitarfool2002 also wrote, "To put it bluntly, you either don't know what the f*** you're talking about, or you're doing this deliberately to provoke and basically sh*t on a positive thread."

So, calling a person's post "bullshit", telling them that they "don't know what the f***" they're talking about, and accusing them of "sh*tting" on a thread is acceptable on this board? And that came after he referred to the person's posts as "clueless" and "asinine". And this comes from the person who banned job?

And speaking of "provoke", it seems to be forgotten or overlooked that job's "Cliff Claven" comment was in response to The Legendary AGD's statement to job, "My suggestion to making this forum a better place is your absence." So guitarfool2002 was outraged with job's choice to respond with the Cliff Claven post, but no outrage whatsoever at one poster telling another poster that the board would be better without them. On the God Only Knows thread, The Legendary AGD also responded to another poster with this, "You have no idea how glad I am that I only "know" you and your ilk via the medium of this forum." Would you consider that provoking? Where is the outrage with that kind of statement?

Of course there is no outrage. The Lengendary AGD is The Lengendary AGD (and that's not meant as a shot at AGD) and job is just...job. I/we don't need any more lectures about the treatment of honored guests, and many of them with their "do you know who I am?" attitudes. I'm not including Ray in that group. Ray "gets it" when it comes to posting and responding on message boards. Ray is a big enough man to handle what is thrown at him. And, before what I say gets twisted (and it will), I'm in no way suggesting that Ray deserved job's posts. This isn't an issue about honored guests, it's an issue about the treatment of non-honored guests. It would be nice if those who are outraged at the likes of job's posts, and are calling for his ban, or actually banning him, would take a look at their own posts, their own choice of words, and lack of respect for others, even if they're not honored guests, and most importantly, even if you don't agree with them.

Maybe there should be some special rules and guidelines for the board - drawn up by guitarfool2002? - on how to treat and respect the different posters. THIS poster will receive THIS treatment, but THAT poster, well, THAT poster will receive THAT treatment - based on whether we agree with what they posted, of course. I'm not holding out too much hope for that, however. You won't get a Christmas card from Brian Wilson that way.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on October 11, 2014, 07:05:36 AM
As I'm not an Honoured Guest, I guess I'm exempt from all that.  ;D


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Shady on October 11, 2014, 07:51:48 AM
You deserve your honoured guest title back, AGD


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 11, 2014, 07:55:27 AM
You deserve your honoured guest title back, AGD

… but first you've got to change your name to "The Lengendary AGD" :)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 11, 2014, 08:28:00 AM
To "Sheriff John Stone":

I hope you took the time to read through each of my posts in this thread. I outlined and addressed the same issues you brought up in your post above. I hope you took the time to note that there were at least three opportunities given in the form of suggestions in my posts to at least try to extend a handshake and make things right to move it forward. Those attempts were met with hostility and more anger. Repeatedly, I held off, or held back from direct challenges, insults, finger-wagging and saying "you MUST do this" and whatever else...and the soft approach did not work. I tried to be patient, I tried to give numerous openings to at least try to "make nice", and it got thrown back in my face, not only by those involved but by you as well. Maybe I'm patient to a fault, maybe I think offering a second or third chance is the most fair way to deal with these things...perhaps I'm naive that way.

I also specifically addressed the issue of what basically amounts to me sometimes being a hothead in debates and discussions. I admit that, I gladly apologize and take the responsibility when I go too far or when someone gets hurt by it. Those apologies are not always publicly posted on the board, either, especially when i feel I really got too heated in these issues.

I'll admit, there are discussions where I get too heated up, I get too much into the debate, I might use stronger wording than necessary. However, and if this is hypocrisy than I'll shoulder that too, this is and can be pretty standard practice in everyday life. People have debates, discussions, negotiations, and things get heated. I've seen it personally in classrooms, in offices and conference rooms, in various businesses where I wasn't even involved, whatever the case. I've seen classroom discussions turn very heated, much like this board, when I was in college. Mostly over music, ironically. A friend who was working for a Master's degree was in an advanced class where two of his fellow scholars just about came to blows over a disagreement on a Bach analysis! No joke.

But those are done in the heat of the debate, right? There is a dividing line between throwing out some choice words during a debate or discussion and smearing mud on the person you're debating, or effectively spitting in their face and getting too "personal".

That's the line that doesn't get crossed, and when it does, the debate or discussion no longer exists and it becomes a battle.

I do not "battle" on this board, I don't want to see anything like was seen in this thread ever again, and the only reason why I'm answering your challenges to me are to set the record straight and move forward.

One last point, Sheriff. Since you quoted my comments in the "God Only Knows BBC" thread to suggest I'm a hypocrite, would you consider answering the direct question I asked you in that same thread which you seem to have either missed or ignored. I'll repost it, verbatim, from that discussion:

By the way, did you feel the same way about "OldSurferDude" and how he posted *his* opinions all over the board? Or is there a different standard based on content and message?

Sheriff, should we reinstate OldSurferDude then, for the same criteria you listed in your post?



Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 11, 2014, 08:46:26 AM
Looking back over this thread again, I have to say that what has been said is certainly much tamer than in hundreds of other threads in the past. I`m certainly not saying that everything has been right but I think it is who the comments have been directed at that has been of much more importance than what was said. As Ray requested not to be an honored guest, he presumably wants to be treated like any other poster which makes it all slightly ironic.

Personally I think that banning genuine fans from the board should be a last resort and it is pretty ugly that some posters call for someone to be banned or rejoice in their banning.

There is no comparison with OldSurferDude as his inflammatory posts came over a period of several years.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ontor pertawst on October 11, 2014, 08:59:16 AM
It's wonderful... sob...seeing Brian's solo career... sniff... continue to flourish... choke...in a way few of us could have imagined 20 years ago.  

Say, how about we hit pause on the nitpicking. The fella explained himself in excruciating detail and you guys just want to roll around in it indefinitely. I guess it goes good with a lazy Saturday morning or something.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 11, 2014, 08:59:25 AM
Looking back over this thread again, I have to say that what has been said is certainly much tamer than in hundreds of other threads in the past. I`m certainly not saying that everything has been right but I think it is who the comments have been directed at that has been of much more importance than what was said. As Ray requested not to be an honored guest, he presumably wants to be treated like any other poster which makes it all slightly ironic.

Personally I think that banning genuine fans from the board should be a last resort and it is pretty ugly that some posters call for someone to be banned or rejoice in their banning.

There is no comparison with OldSurferDude as his inflammatory posts came over a period of several years.

Did OldSurferDude's inflammatory posts target or try to smear any individual posters here in a direct, personal way, or was it just the content and/or volume of his posts that eventually led to the ban?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on October 11, 2014, 09:10:38 AM

Sheriff, should we reinstate OldSurferDude then, for the same criteria you listed in your post?


To quote The Count, "Well f*** that sideways".


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 11, 2014, 09:12:21 AM
Looking back over this thread again, I have to say that what has been said is certainly much tamer than in hundreds of other threads in the past. I`m certainly not saying that everything has been right but I think it is who the comments have been directed at that has been of much more importance than what was said. As Ray requested not to be an honored guest, he presumably wants to be treated like any other poster which makes it all slightly ironic.

Personally I think that banning genuine fans from the board should be a last resort and it is pretty ugly that some posters call for someone to be banned or rejoice in their banning.

There is no comparison with OldSurferDude as his inflammatory posts came over a period of several years.

Did OldSurferDude's inflammatory posts target or try to smear any individual posters here in a direct, personal way, or was it just the content and/or volume of his posts that eventually led to the ban?

What smears?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 11, 2014, 09:13:55 AM
Looking back over this thread again, I have to say that what has been said is certainly much tamer than in hundreds of other threads in the past. I`m certainly not saying that everything has been right but I think it is who the comments have been directed at that has been of much more importance than what was said. As Ray requested not to be an honored guest, he presumably wants to be treated like any other poster which makes it all slightly ironic.

Personally I think that banning genuine fans from the board should be a last resort and it is pretty ugly that some posters call for someone to be banned or rejoice in their banning.

There is no comparison with OldSurferDude as his inflammatory posts came over a period of several years.

Did OldSurferDude's inflammatory posts target or try to smear any individual posters here in a direct, personal way, or was it just the content and/or volume of his posts that eventually led to the ban?

What smears?

Why, Pat Smear, of course!  :lol

(http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/images/Product%20News/Guitar/Jan13/Hagstrom%202013/Pat%20Smear-630-80.jpg)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 11, 2014, 09:26:46 AM
Looking back over this thread again, I have to say that what has been said is certainly much tamer than in hundreds of other threads in the past. I`m certainly not saying that everything has been right but I think it is who the comments have been directed at that has been of much more importance than what was said. As Ray requested not to be an honored guest, he presumably wants to be treated like any other poster which makes it all slightly ironic.

Personally I think that banning genuine fans from the board should be a last resort and it is pretty ugly that some posters call for someone to be banned or rejoice in their banning.

There is no comparison with OldSurferDude as his inflammatory posts came over a period of several years.

Did OldSurferDude's inflammatory posts target or try to smear any individual posters here in a direct, personal way, or was it just the content and/or volume of his posts that eventually led to the ban?

What smears?

Why, Pat Smear, of course!  :lol

(http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/images/Product%20News/Guitar/Jan13/Hagstrom%202013/Pat%20Smear-630-80.jpg)

Certainly haven`t seen any others...


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: rab2591 on October 11, 2014, 09:28:18 AM
As Ray requested not to be an honored guest, he presumably wants to be treated like any other poster which makes it all slightly ironic.

Common friggin sense says that we shouldn't encourage (or ignore) rude behavior towards guests that offer us invaluable insight. And if the rude behavior continues then there should be consequences....telling distinguished members to "get over yourselves" and mocking their knowledge of the band? I honestly don't think Smiley Smile should tolerate that behavior.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 11, 2014, 09:33:11 AM
I think Mikie hit the nail on the head a few pages back, regarding the "How do you know?" question. Let us not forget that it's not easy to tell emotion and inflection over a message board. The question asked by job may well have been a genuine, well meaning question of asking if or how Ray knew something as an actual fact, or just opinion. To others, it read as an aggressive attack. It seems to me that job's first big "mistake" was not knowing who Ray is, and having the guts to question him on something. To be honest, I didn't actually know who Ray was either until somebody informed me via pm that he is an "insider". I do know and understand the fact that certain members here should at times be shown a little more respect than others. After all, these people occasionally go out of their way to give us information we might normally not be able to have access to. But I also see an all to frequent "Us versus them" attitude. Let's not forget that we have all been a noob fan at one time or another, and we all can't know when a certain person has "ties" to parties involved that we don't, and that their word and knowledge on something is absolute fact, and is not to be questioned. Now having said all that, I do agree that job's posts about Ray's "minions", and saying things like "who needs them" was way out of line and inappropriate. But I do understand job's initial anger at the attitude given him way back at the beginning of this thread.

Agree on all counts. I've seen much worse here from the regulars that warranted a banning.  You explained it even better than I did, Octopus Prime. "Emotion" and "inflection" on a message board that can easily be misinterpreted. I understand Job's initial anger, and while he perhaps handled the responses inappropriately which resulted in a public hanging, I think this thing escalated quickly and should have been dropped two or three pages ago - apologies or no apologies. The damage to Job's rep on the board was already done, and it should have been left at his discretion to repair it (or not). Instead, there was a lot of unnecessary piling on, which I think was unwarranted.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 11, 2014, 09:40:52 AM
Looking back over this thread again, I have to say that what has been said is certainly much tamer than in hundreds of other threads in the past.

You betcha! Within five minutes, I could go find a thread from the recent past where a poster or two shoulda been issued a verbal warning or at least a week's time out. 


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 11, 2014, 09:45:43 AM
If Job has been banned then that would seem a great shame. He has only ever posted informed and thoughtful posts about the group in the past and is certainly a diehard and knowledgeable fan. This thread is trivial in comparison to what many other posters, myself very probably included, have contributed over the years.

We agree one more time, Nick.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 11, 2014, 10:04:50 AM
Job and urbanite, you're too sensitive. There's no bullying going on here. Your initial posts might have been misconstrued or maybe you meant them. You stated your views and someone corrected you, that's all. A few of you guys are so damn defensive.

I made the mistake of wondering who Ray Lawlor was when I first saw his name appear on the board. I asked, "Who is this guy and how come he seems (or portrays himself) to know more than we do? Well, AGD and a couple of others straightened me out and it's now obvious that Ray is as close to an "insider" as we can get, at least to Brian.

So we must respect Ray - otherwise he's likely to bail if we don't give him some respect.

Ray, even if they don't make you an "Honored guest" here for whatever lame reason, you're welcome to come by my home anytime and shoot the breeze and listen to music over a few beers and a steak and cake.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 11, 2014, 10:07:15 AM
If your own advice given on page 3 had actually been followed, Mikie, none of this would have escalated as it did.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 11, 2014, 10:10:28 AM
Suggest the thread be locked and a veil drawn. Can't even recall the original topic.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 11, 2014, 10:16:44 AM
Suggest the thread be locked and a veil drawn. Can't even recall the original topic.

I might agree, but people have some stuff to get off their chest, I think we should let them do it. Let's air all this out and get it in the open, good or bad. The original thread topic had ample opportunity to be "saved" but the choices were made otherwise, so let's use this to clear the air.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 11, 2014, 10:17:04 AM
If your own advice given on page 3 had actually been followed, Mikie, none of this would have escalated as it did.

Well, cool heads didn't prevail and you guys went off the deep end. There's no question posters here should follow the rules and respect not only other posters (with special respect to insiders) but I think for the most part we police ourselves when somebody gets out of line. THAT in itself should be enough. But banning someone because they're stubborn and unwilling to apologize for something they supposedly said or didn't say, or made a mistake, is a little extreme. Again, the poster's reputation has already been damaged and run through the Spank Machine more than once. Isn't that enough?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 11, 2014, 10:22:05 AM
If your own advice given on page 3 had actually been followed, Mikie, none of this would have escalated as it did.

Well, cool heads didn't prevail and you guys went off the deep end. There's no question posters here should follow the rules and respect not only other posters (with special respect to insiders) but I think for the most part we police ourselves when somebody gets out of line. THAT in itself should be enough. But banning someone because they're stubborn and unwilling to apologize for something they supposedly said or didn't say, or made a mistake, is a little extreme. Again, the poster's reputation has already been damaged and run through the Spank Machine more than once. Isn't that enough?

Agree with this. Job came across as disrespectful but the board's had far worse, and folk have got away with far more. Me included.

But perhaps change the name of the thread to "Thread for greeting stuff off your chest (unless you've been banned already)" or something to show that it's no longer anything to do with Brian's gravy or whatever.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 11, 2014, 10:24:50 AM
If your own advice given on page 3 had actually been followed, Mikie, none of this would have escalated as it did.

Well, cool heads didn't prevail and you guys went off the deep end. There's no question posters here should follow the rules and respect not only other posters (with special respect to insiders) but I think for the most part we police ourselves when somebody gets out of line. THAT in itself should be enough. But banning someone because they're stubborn and unwilling to apologize for something they supposedly said or didn't say, or made a mistake, is a little extreme. Again, the poster's reputation has already been damaged and run through the Spank Machine more than once. Isn't that enough?

I actually resent that Mikie, considering I kept a cool head throughout this thing and gave multiple, reasonable opportunities for amends to be made, or even as I already said, for a handshake to be extended to help smooth everything out. And it got thrown back in my face. The board did try to police itself from page one, and it was met with escalating hostility to the point where it reached "point of no return" status. I stepped in to try to smooth it out without "policing" anything or anyone, and me trying to keep a cool head, find a sensible way to patch things up between posters and for the thread in general got me hit with a shitstorm of posts like yours, and honestly, it's not appreciated and not warranted.

Read through the thread again, consider all the factors and the comments that led up to it, and maybe rethink where you're pointing a finger.

Again, your own advice was spot-on, if it had been followed it would not have led up to this and the thread topic would have been back on track.

Seriously, not cool.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 11, 2014, 10:26:58 AM
I hope Mikie's not going to get banned next.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 11, 2014, 10:28:30 AM
I hope Mikie's not going to get banned next.

There would be no reason to. That's kind of a silly comment, isn't it?  :)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 11, 2014, 10:29:47 AM
To be fair, I think there is still space for some on topic discussion as well. job`s poorly worded question was possibly based on the fact that we have one insider opining that Melinda and Mike`s wife were not responsible for the reunion ending when two other insiders (Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson) have opined that they were. It`s a shame that an interesting topic of discussion like that got lost in the petty squabbling...


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ontor pertawst on October 11, 2014, 10:31:31 AM
Yeah, we get it. You wanna pit them against each other but nobody seemed interested in doing it when you mentioned it the first time. Maybe you can work it into another thread desperately crying out for insinuations.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 11, 2014, 10:32:02 AM
I hope Mikie's not going to get banned next.

There would be no reason to. That's kind of a silly comment, isn't it?  :)

I'm worried about where things are headed next. Seriously…


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 11, 2014, 10:35:54 AM
I didn't point fingers, GF. Notice I alluded to "you guys" - I wasn't pointing fingers at one individual. It's EVERYONE here. I mean, I think Job got the message loud and clear back on the first or second pages! You clearly explained your position very clearly and in much detail with all variables and attributes covered, GF. Ultimately, as the newly elected moderator, it's your discretion what constitutes a banning (within the guidelines of the board rules of course). As the old saying goes, "I've seen people die for less". Your call, Bud.

Now I'm off to see the wizard......


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 11, 2014, 10:37:11 AM
Yeah, we get it. You wanna pit them against each other but nobody seemed interested in doing it when you mentioned it the first time.

 :lol

I don`t want to pit them against each other at all. I am interested in knowing more about that situation as the break-up has been debated sooooooo much on the board.

The board shouldn`t be about people being against each other whether it is honored guests versus normal posters or insiders versus each other. It should hopefully be about learning more about the group by exchanging information and opinions and this is obviously an area where there is doubt. It may well be that Jon S or Howie have discovered things since posting about this subject which has made them change their original opinions after all...


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ontor pertawst on October 11, 2014, 10:38:17 AM
Ok, good luck with cracking the case, Columbo.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 11, 2014, 10:39:22 AM
Ok, good luck with cracking the case, Columbo.

Ok. Let`s none of us ever discuss the end of C50 again eh.  ;)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ontor pertawst on October 11, 2014, 10:42:18 AM
I'm sure your unorthodox ways that get results will surely blow it wide open, I say keep hammering away at the witnesses... and if they don't respond... start hitting em with phonebooks. Leaves no marks, an interrogator's dream!

"Just one more thing, Ray..."
 


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 11, 2014, 10:42:52 AM
Ok. Let`s none of us ever discuss the end of C50 again eh.  ;)

If that happened, there would be very few new threads and half the posters here wouldn't post anymore!  :-D


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ang Jones on October 11, 2014, 10:45:00 AM
What sort of defence is 'there have been worse things before'? Maybe this was under the control of different moderators, maybe some slipped through the net.

As for this
To be fair, I think there is still space for some on topic discussion as well. job`s poorly worded question was possibly based on the fact that we have one insider opining that Melinda and Mike`s wife were not responsible for the reunion ending when two other insiders (Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson) have opined that they were. It`s a shame that an interesting topic of discussion like that got lost in the petty squabbling...
I read an article on FB posted by Jon Stebbins recently in which he had stated that Mike didn't like the attention Brian was getting during the C50. This seems like another possible reason for Mike to want to go back to touring with Bruce and their band.

There are those who have some insider information - some have more of it than others. Ask a group of witnesses and often there will be different versions of the truth.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 11, 2014, 10:46:00 AM
I'm sure your unorthodox ways that get results will surely blow it wide open, I say keep hammering away at the witnesses... and if they don't respond... start hitting em with phonebooks. Leaves no marks, an interrogator's dream!

"Just one more thing, Ray..."

Er, you do know it wasn`t me who brought this up in the thread don`t you. Urbanite mentioned it and Guitarfool asked him to clarify if memory serves.

I apologize if me mentioning something on topic got in the way of you watching the sh*tstorm though.  ;)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 11, 2014, 10:47:03 AM
What sort of defence is 'there have been worse things before'? Maybe this was under the control of different moderators, maybe some slipped through the net.

As for this
To be fair, I think there is still space for some on topic discussion as well. job`s poorly worded question was possibly based on the fact that we have one insider opining that Melinda and Mike`s wife were not responsible for the reunion ending when two other insiders (Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson) have opined that they were. It`s a shame that an interesting topic of discussion like that got lost in the petty squabbling...
I read an article on FB posted by Jon Stebbins recently in which he had stated that Mike didn't like the attention Brian was getting during the C50. This seems like another possible reason for Mike to want to go back to touring with Bruce and their band.

There are those who have some insider information - some have more of it than others. Ask a group of witnesses and often there will be different versions of the truth.

Absolutely which is why it`s always great to have as many witnesses as possible. One of the reasons it`s a shame this thread took the path it did.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ontor pertawst on October 11, 2014, 10:47:20 AM
Better idea, Nicko. We can team up and good cop/bad cop them. We start off hating each other but learn a grudging respect for each other's methods. I can offer Stebbins gum or a cigarette, you kick his chair out from under him. He'll crack like an egg! AN EGG!

I hope everyone heeds your sincere call to get things back on topic: namely, gossiping about wives.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: bgas on October 11, 2014, 10:47:41 AM
I hope Mikie's not going to get banned next.

Will it help if I start a poll to see how many folks think Mikie should be banned?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mendota Heights on October 11, 2014, 11:02:27 AM
I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

  • other members
  • how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on topic. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 11, 2014, 11:06:08 AM
I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

  • other members
  • how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on top. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

That is true and it is an interesting suggestion.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 11, 2014, 11:08:34 AM
I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

  • other members
  • how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on top. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

I'm sorry you don't like the ways and means of the board, but it has been moderated this way since 2006 for the most part, and that is primarily due to the fact that moderators past and present do not choose to step into every thread and dictate what is or isn't on topic and delete posts that don't conform. Discussions here are and always have been more free-form and free-flowing in nature, and I have never seen this board operating any other way. Discussions here also go the way the members posting in them decide to take them, and although some do go wildly off topic it hasn't been much of an issue since the board started.

So is it one now that needs to be addressed by calling for moderators to step down? I don't think so, but I'm biased.  :)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mendota Heights on October 11, 2014, 11:14:55 AM
I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

  • other members
  • how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on top. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

I'm sorry you don't like the ways and means of the board, but it has been moderated this way since 2006 for the most part, and that is primarily due to the fact that moderators past and present do not choose to step into every thread and dictate what is or isn't on topic and delete posts that don't conform. Discussions here are and always have been more free-form and free-flowing in nature, and I have never seen this board operating any other way. Discussions here also go the way the members posting in them decide to take them, and although some do go wildly off topic it hasn't been much of an issue since the board started.

So is it one now that needs to be addressed by calling for moderators to step down? I don't think so, but I'm biased.  :)

You're not biased, but when a discussion about Brian's rising stock turns into discussions about members and what they do you are doing something wrong. You don't have to delete the off topic posts, just move them to a new thread that you or one of the other moderators created. It is not hard.

Try it. You will feel a sense of accomplishment.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 11, 2014, 11:17:16 AM
That is true and it is an interesting suggestion.

Do you really want that kind of iron-fisted, constant moderation style applied here, Nicko? If so, consider that the third post of this thread, which took it from listing Brian's recent accomplishments and celebrating them into asking about an album from 8-9 years ago and a tour which ended two years ago could have been flagged and deleted as off-topic, and half of your follow up questions and posts would be zapped as well. Because, sticking strictly to the "rules" under such strict moderation of the board, neither C50 nor the GIOMH album were mentioned or discussed in the original topic post and neither is "on topic" with Brian's activities in 2014 going into 2015?

Do you really want that as a general rule?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Niko on October 11, 2014, 11:19:03 AM
Do you really want that as a general rule?


Dear god, no.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: bgas on October 11, 2014, 11:19:27 AM
That is true and it is an interesting suggestion.

Do you really want that kind of iron-fisted, constant moderation style applied here, Nicko? If so, consider that the third post of this thread, which took it from listing Brian's recent accomplishments and celebrating them into asking about an album from 8-9 years ago and a tour which ended two years ago could have been flagged and deleted as off-topic, and half of your follow up questions and posts would be zapped as well. Because, sticking strictly to the "rules" under such strict moderation of the board, neither C50 nor the GIOMH album were mentioned or discussed in the original topic post and neither is "on topic" with Brian's activities in 2014 going into 2015?

Do you really want that as a general rule?

Maybe posters that take a thread off topic should resign


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: alf wiedersehen on October 11, 2014, 11:22:36 AM
So, I think that Brian and Co. have been very smart in their handling of things lately. Sharing info about the album with the fanbase to build hype, bringing in some big-name people to attract more attention and get some sales from disparate fan bases, freshening up the live show with new faces and new songs, and presumably syncing up their planned releases. The "God Only Knows" single was a great move, too - it's raising his profile in the public eye and will maybe inspire some people to check out the original. They may not have always seemed to make the best choices in the past, but love or hate their methods, I think they're doing a good job currently and Brian is probably the biggest he's been since 2004.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 11, 2014, 11:24:39 AM
I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

  • other members
  • how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on top. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

I'm sorry you don't like the ways and means of the board, but it has been moderated this way since 2006 for the most part, and that is primarily due to the fact that moderators past and present do not choose to step into every thread and dictate what is or isn't on topic and delete posts that don't conform. Discussions here are and always have been more free-form and free-flowing in nature, and I have never seen this board operating any other way. Discussions here also go the way the members posting in them decide to take them, and although some do go wildly off topic it hasn't been much of an issue since the board started.

So is it one now that needs to be addressed by calling for moderators to step down? I don't think so, but I'm biased.  :)

You're not biased, but when a discussion about Brian's rising stock turns into discussions about members and what they do you are doing something wrong. You don't have to delete the off topic posts, just move them to a new thread that you or one of the other moderators created. It is not hard.

Try it. You will feel a sense of accomplishment.

I appreciate the suggestions, I'll take the criticism, but I won't be baited into something else by your last comment.

Nice try, though. Well, actually it wasn't a nice try at all, in fact it was uncalled for and definitely not appreciated.

By the way, do you realize that due to this board's structure and design which no one here can control, it is not possible to extract and remove individual posts into another thread or location? You can merge topic, but individual posts cannot be moved into new topics.

I can't control that lack of a feature and nor can the numbers of other board moderators and owners who have been asking for such a feature from the board host designers for some time, to no avail, unfortunately, so consider that before throwing that out there like it's my call.



Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 11, 2014, 11:24:46 AM

Do you really want that kind of iron-fisted, constant moderation style applied here, Nicko? If so, consider that the third post of this thread, which took it from listing Brian's recent accomplishments and celebrating them into asking about an album from 8-9 years ago and a tour which ended two years ago could have been flagged and deleted as off-topic, and half of your follow up questions and posts would be zapped as well. Because, sticking strictly to the "rules" under such strict moderation of the board, neither C50 nor the GIOMH album were mentioned or discussed in the original topic post and neither is "on topic" with Brian's activities in 2014 going into 2015?

Do you really want that as a general rule?

Where did I say that I wanted that? I said it is an interesting suggestion because it is one that works on other boards. NOT that they are run in an iron-fisted way but just that any posts that are completely off topic are removed.

The third post of this thread wouldn`t be deleted because it relates to Melinda`s role in helping to manage Brian`s career which was mentioned in the first post. Other boards that I look at would certainly not delete a post related so closely to the original topic.

I am not saying that this is a style that this board should be adopting but it is an interesting idea. Even just the idea that threads should be kept closer to topic isn`t a bad one.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ontor pertawst on October 11, 2014, 11:26:33 AM
See, Nicko, it wouldn't be up to YOU to decide if your posts were off-topic, tho. Some people would come to different conclusions and you'd find many of your thoughtful, not nitpicking at all posts zapped if that were the moderating style. They would join mine in the recycle bin!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 11, 2014, 11:29:21 AM
GF is doing a great job as a mod.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: rab2591 on October 11, 2014, 11:29:29 AM
So, I think that Brian and Co. have been very smart in their handling of things lately. Sharing info about the album with the fanbase to build hype, bringing in some big-name people to attract more attention and get some sales from disparate fan bases, freshening up the live show with new faces and new songs, and presumably syncing up their planned releases. The "God Only Knows" single was a great move, too - it's raising his profile in the public eye and will maybe inspire some people to check out the original. They may not have always seemed to make the best choices in the past, but love or hate their methods, I think they're doing a good job currently and Brian is probably the biggest he's been since 2004.

Agreed! All cylinders are firing and I can't wait for what happens in the next 3-4 months. I really think this album is going to be huge, and, judging by Ray's thoughts on the actual music, us BW fans will not be disappointed with what gets released!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ontor pertawst on October 11, 2014, 11:30:38 AM
 I just can't wait to hear the new songs then get some more tour dates announced... and see which ones they play live! With no Jeff Beck interminable interludes.

...then the speculation about all the recordings that WEREN'T on the album. I'm especially to curious to hear about more songs pegged for the life suite... and about the inevitable Al Jardine stuff that wasn't included. He's gonna talk about Run, James, Run for the rest of his life if it isn't included! FREE AL JARDINE!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 11, 2014, 11:31:01 AM
See, Nicko, it wouldn't be up to YOU to decide if your posts were off-topic, tho. Some people would come to different conclusions and you'd find many of your thoughtful, not nitpicking at all posts zapped if that were the moderating style. They would join mine in the recycle bin!

2 more positives that I hadn`t thought of.  ;)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ontor pertawst on October 11, 2014, 11:32:55 AM
Yeah! It would make the place a lot more pleasant. We could cut out the middleman and just stop posting to help the board heal and move forward. You first! I insist.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 11, 2014, 11:35:12 AM
So, I think that Brian and Co. have been very smart in their handling of things lately. Sharing info about the album with the fanbase to build hype, bringing in some big-name people to attract more attention and get some sales from disparate fan bases, freshening up the live show with new faces and new songs, and presumably syncing up their planned releases. The "God Only Knows" single was a great move, too - it's raising his profile in the public eye and will maybe inspire some people to check out the original. They may not have always seemed to make the best choices in the past, but love or hate their methods, I think they're doing a good job currently and Brian is probably the biggest he's been since 2004.

Generally speaking, I would say that Brian`s management have done a fine job with his solo career for many a long year.

Yes, there have been mistakes (eg. GIOMH) but there have also been numerous highs. There have been plenty of unexpected touring achievements obviously and Brian has also worked steadily in the studio, with a fair amount of success, despite only writing one full new solo album since 1998.

His management deserve a lot of credit for that and the present period is no different.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 11, 2014, 11:38:22 AM
Yeah! It would make the place a lot more pleasant. We could cut out the middleman and just stop posting to help the board heal and move forward. You first! I insist.

You seem to love replying to my posts so I couldn`t possibly force you to live with the deprivation.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: rab2591 on October 11, 2014, 11:42:56 AM
He's gonna talk about Run, James, Run for the rest of his life if it isn't included! FREE AL JARDINE!

:lol

Perhaps they're going to save the track for a possible Beach Boys Pet Sounds reunion release in two years. Hey, I can dream, right? :-D


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mendota Heights on October 11, 2014, 11:48:45 AM
Brian's back in a sense he was not when he was "officially back" - in 70's. It is very unlikely he will hit rock bottom again, like he did in the 80's. He seems stable, focused, healthy, determined and he is surrounded by great musicians and by great fans.

The Beach Boys have been unjustly "hidden" from the public for decades, now the cultural elite (parts of it) has decided to place Brian in the limelight, something we are all happy about (no matter what SS camp we adhere to). I am glad all these BBC artists paid homage to Brian/Asher/Carl/Mike/Dennis/Al. All these five guys made Brian's composition the masterpiece it is and it thrills me my friends on Facebook share this song and make it go viral. I am glad Brian's new album is coming out soon and that it features so many fine young contemporary musicians. Brian is certainly more hip today than he has been since the 60's. It is good for Brian. It is good for Carl. It is good for Dennis. It is good for Mike. It is good for Al. It is good for Dave.

And it is good for the legacy that is... the Beach Boys.

  


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 11, 2014, 11:57:11 AM
I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

  • other members
  • how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact


Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on topic. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

With that mentality, I think YOU should resign. Seriously. This ain't like your other boards. Free speech is exercised here, not communism. If the moderators heeded your advise, every other post would be deleted and we don't need that. Let's keep it fun and light. On the other hand, there isn't an anarchy here either. The moderators (all three of them) are doing just fine, thanks.



Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on October 11, 2014, 11:58:56 AM
I do not "battle" on this board...

Yes, you do. But I'll get to that in a minute. Thank you for your thoughtful and honest response to my earlier post. And, as your reward, you are subjected to one of my boring stories! ;D

I used to coach Little League baseball, and we had on our coaching staff an attorney who later became a judge. I loved talking with this coach/attorney, not just because of his interesting courtroom stories, but for the occasional free legal advice! Anyway, I remember a particular story about a divorce case he was trying, complete with complicated twists and turns...and juicy details. After the story was told, I remember saying to this attorney, "It just goes to show you that there were two sides to that story." The attorney responded, "There are two sides to EVERY story." 

Never has that cliche been truer than with Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys. I certainly believe that, and I know you do, too. My problem with you is that your posts don't reflect that attitude. As a matter of fact, not only are you reacting inappropriately to posters who you don't agree with, but you seem to be on some campaign or crusade in setting the record straight - according to guitarfool2002. You have recently come out with pronouncements - and I'm paraphrasing - like "I'm not going to allow people to come on this board and say this and that..." and "I don't like how history can be changed by posters saying things and I'm going to fight back..." and "this board doesn't need things like that posted here..." and "do you know who you're talking to; they don't need to be subjected to that..." With all due respect guitarfool2002, and I mean that, I respect your knowledge and your writing, Brian Wilson's legacy is doing just fine; his stock his rising! Honored guests are fully aware what they are getting into when they post here; they don't need your protection. And, this board is doing just fine in handling posters who post less than popular opinions; I didn't sense a need for someone to censure, to shout down, or to fight back.

I'm sure you have your reasons for your attitude, your mission, or your looking out for the betterment of the board. Hey, everybody has an agenda of some type; I get that. And, I'm sure you have your supporters and cheerleaders (I realize that's a bad word to use around here :p), and I fully expect them to come out and support you on this issue. And, I applaud you for your passion. I just think you're taking it too far, and in taking it that far, you are not being open to the other point of view, to the other opinions; you are disrespecting people, and with the "job issue", it appears to me that you are trying to satisfy YOUR agenda. I don't want to speak for Ray, and I stand to be corrected, but I got the feeling that Ray could handle himself just fine, didn't need anyone to come to his rescue. Like I said in my previous post, Ray's a bigger man who "gets it", and I would be surprised if he called for job's banning. Oh, I know guitarfool2002, it's not necessary for an Honored Guest to come to you before you act. I just think you're taking your crusade too far.

As far as OldSurferDude is concerned, that's a really simple issue. I will give you a completely honest answer. When I first came on this board, it didn't take me long to realize what OSD's agenda was. 99% of his posts were made for the explicit purpose of degrading Mike Love. I used to read all of them, then I used to read most of them, then I used to read some of them, then I stopped reading them completely. I know you won't believe this, but it wasn't only because of the content of OSD's posts - some of them had merit - it was the repetitive nature of the posts that drove me away from them. I literally mastered the art of scrolling right past them. Actually, because of my ignoring OSD's posts, it was a long time before I realized he was even banned. Only recently was I reading a thread where it was mentioned that OSD was banned because of something inappropriate that he said to another poster. I still have no idea what he said.

Should have OSD been banned. Again, I don't know what he said or did, but, regardless of what I posted here, I don't have strong feelings about banning. I don't follow it that closely. So, I guess I'll say this, and this relates to what you and I are debating, which is why (I think) you brought OSD up. I think that grounds for banning should primarily be relegated to posts/posters that cross the line of race, sex, religion, etc. Let's make that clear. That is not acceptable anywhere. And, if OSD crossed that line, then, yes, he should receive a ban (the length of ban is another issue). However, do I think that OSD should've been banned for making repetitive and demeaning posts about a Beach Boy? No, I don't. Hey, OSD was annoying, and like I said, I didn't agree with him and I eventually stopped reading him. But, I'll defend his right to come on the Smiley Smile Message Board and post whatever he wants as long as it's appropriate. I certainly wouldn't tell him what he should or shouldn't post and then fight him and use profanity when I didn't agree with him.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ontor pertawst on October 11, 2014, 12:02:31 PM
Brian's back in a sense he was not when he was "officially back" - in 70's. It is very unlikely he will hit rock bottom again, like he did in the 80's. He seems stable, focused, healthy, determined and he is surrounded by great musicians and by great fans.

It's great that it's not just a fragile victory lap either, not a "wow, you're still alive! Take a bow just for not being dead!" He's been working hard for years and putting out good material. For all the talk of Brian not being able to handle a touring schedule, he didn't miss any of C50 when the pressure was on and the schedule was exhausting. He didn't whine endlessly or cheapen the work they did together when it fell apart and just got back to work in the studio... with another daunting round of appearances most likely lurking around the corner and filling up next year.

Invest in Wilson stock now!
 


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mendota Heights on October 11, 2014, 12:07:57 PM
I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

  • other members
  • how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact


Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on topic. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

With that mentality, I think YOU should resign. Seriously. This ain't like your other boards. Free speech is exercised here, not communism. If the moderators heeded your advise, every other post would be deleted and we don't need that. Let's keep it fun and light. On the other hand, there isn't an anarchy here either. The moderators (all three of them) are doing just fine, thanks.



Moving discussions about SS members to a designated thread is not is a socioeconomic system structured upon common ownership of the means of production and characterized by the absence of social classes, money and the state; as well as a social, political and economic ideology and movement that aims to establish this social order.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 11, 2014, 12:09:27 PM
Well, you got a point there, Froggie.  I never considered that aspect.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 11, 2014, 12:13:14 PM
Well, you got a point there, Froggie.  I never considered that aspect.

 :lol


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 11, 2014, 12:24:03 PM
I just explained it but I'll clarify it even further with additions:

There is no way to move individual posts out of threads and into another existing thread or even a new topic. That is a feature which the board host and the design of the board does not have, even though people have been asking for it. I know this because I researched it, inquired about it, and even tried to find other ways to do it. This was in response to a call to do this a few months ago.

But as of now, with the design of these forums, it is just not possible. Period. It can't be done.

This board has never been moderated that way where posts are deleted or tagged as off-topic as a regular practice, and I do not think a majority who post here would want that. In my own opinion, it opens up a situation where one person's idea of off-topic would conflict with another person's opinion, and you'd have three people deciding on their own what was or was not on-topic, and I would not support that at all. So I don't see it happening anytime soon, if at all.

I posted a "Suggestion Box" thread recently for anyone to offer comments, criticisms, suggestions, etc for the board, along with the "Ask The Moderators" sub-forum which is at the top of the homepage. At least in the suggestion box thread, I don't recall anything being said about this kind of on-topic/off-topic constant moderation style, so I'm kind of surprised to see it appear here so strongly as to call for moderators to step down unless we start deleting posts.

My own take, non-moderator wise, that felt like a bit of a cheap shot considering the "Suggestion Box" and other areas to make such suggestions have been open and have seen nothing there making as strong of a case to change to this style...at least nothing to suggest it was enough of an issue to put out a direct ultimatum with the suggestion to do this or resign.

Not gonna do it.  :)





Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: bgas on October 11, 2014, 12:34:25 PM
I just explained it but I'll clarify it even further with additions:

There is no way to move individual posts out of threads and into another existing thread or even a new topic. That is a feature which the board host and the design of the board does not have, even though people have been asking for it. I know this because I researched it, inquired about it, and even tried to find other ways to do it. This was in response to a call to do this a few months ago.

But as of now, with the design of these forums, it is just not possible. Period. It can't be done.

This board has never been moderated that way where posts are deleted or tagged as off-topic as a regular practice, and I do not think a majority who post here would want that. In my own opinion, it opens up a situation where one person's idea of off-topic would conflict with another person's opinion, and you'd have three people deciding on their own what was or was not on-topic, and I would not support that at all. So I don't see it happening anytime soon, if at all.

I posted a "Suggestion Box" thread recently for anyone to offer comments, criticisms, suggestions, etc for the board, along with the "Ask The Moderators" sub-forum which is at the top of the homepage. At least in the suggestion box thread, I don't recall anything being said about this kind of on-topic/off-topic constant moderation style, so I'm kind of surprised to see it appear here so strongly as to call for moderators to step down unless we start deleting posts.

My own take, non-moderator wise, that felt like a bit of a cheap shot considering the "Suggestion Box" and other areas to make such suggestions have been open and have seen nothing there making as strong of a case to change to this style...at least nothing to suggest it was enough of an issue to put out a direct ultimatum with the suggestion to do this or resign.

Not gonna do it.  :)

 What you're missing:  posting suggestions in a suggestion box thread would be posting ON Topic. This is anathema  to so many here


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ray Lawlor on October 11, 2014, 12:36:29 PM
Suggest the thread be locked and a veil drawn. Can't even recall the original topic.

I might agree, but people have some stuff to get off their chest, I think we should let them do it. Let's air all this out and get it in the open, good or bad. The original thread topic had ample opportunity to be "saved" but the choices were made otherwise, so let's use this to clear the air.

So here is what I have to say about this entire matter. First and foremost; I am not an "honored guest" ; this entire matter was between one SS poster and another SS poster; plain and simple.I do not , and have not ever, taken a "do you know who I am" type of posture here, or anywhere else,  let's start there.  The poster  , asked me a question in a very arrogant and confrontational manner ; any attempt to say that was not the intent or "I just asked a question " is pure spin and bullsh-t. When he did , I got up in his grill and responded accordingly; I can read the English language; and I understand intent  . He was not interested in any dialogue , but was just looking for a fight; for what reason or agenda I don't know.  For example ;when I asked him how many C50 shows he had been to he never replied, and that was the end of it...what was that ; pageone or two on this thread ?   If he was really interested in why I said the last two C50 shows were the best since Carnagie 71 , we could have had a dialogue about it; if he had phrased his question " why do you think that " , for example ; I would not have taken it the way I did . And for the record, I went on AGD's Bellagio site , and went through all the Beach Boy's concerts I had attended from 1966 to Nov, 1993 ; the last one being in the Paramount in Madison Square Garden...total 103; it would have been 104 , but the Singer Bowl on the absurd Maharishi tour was cancelled so the 50 or so people who were there got screwed. Then the 25 or so C50 shows; this I believe makes me fu-k--ng well qualified to make a judgement call like that. But we did not have that conversation. The nonsense about "get over yourself" , "That honoured guest and his minions", "prickish response"( Job has no clue what a prickish response is from me would be like) and even some garbage about "honoured guests give us commoners who worship them and spend our money on them "......I don't even know what the hell he was talking about ; and if you are defending this diatribe as normal behavior than you don't have the sense that God gave geese. But I say the smart play here is lets move on.

What is ironic is that I only post things where I feel I have solid knowledge of , or if I want to clarify something that is erroneous.  For example ; has anyone on this board seen me ever make a comment on a M & B show ? The answer is no ; the reason being I am not qualified to make a judgement on them having never seen them live. I don't draw solid opinions on concerts from youtube video's or phantom autotune from 8 second IPhone clips; not my M.O. I can make a statement about John Cowsill ( best BB's drummer since Dennis Wilson) and Scott Totten (knows the music; fine musician) and Stamos ( An American Family, say no more) ..because I saw them ; live; with my eyes and ears. That stuff I can , and will opine on.

I will not comment in any detail about family issues ; i.e. the stuff about Melinda Wilson and Jacquie Love's good or bad relationship and the demise of C50;( i don't know the status of their relationship currently; and even if I did know I wouldnt admit it) I will just reiterate that in my opinion this is a red herring , and that the reason it's finished is money and control.  Capitalism 101.  But I can tell you this. The night before the first C50 concert in Tuscon, while the BB's were rehearsing, I bought a couple of bottles of tequila , and Melinda Wilson, Jacquie Love, MaryAnn Jardine, Carrie Marks, Jean Sievers and I , sat around for a few hours drinking margarita's on Brian's bus. One of the most fun nights ever; there were great, raunchy, hilareous stories I never heard before about Brian, Dennis, Carl , Mike , Al and David ; none for public consumption . The ladies were all very funny , and they all got along great in my opinion. I can opine on this because I was there.




Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 11, 2014, 12:48:49 PM
So here is what I have to say about this entire matter. First and foremost; I am not an "honored guest"

Well, to many of us you are, Ray. It's out of respect for the information and opinions you contribute to the board. To me (and others) you should be regarded as an honored guest as much as the book authors, engineers, band members, or other "insiders" here. Seems to me you bring to the table as much as they do. If a poll was taken as to whether you qualify as an "Honored Guest, the "Yes" vote would win hands down, I'm sure.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 11, 2014, 12:58:13 PM
I don't even know what the hell he was talking about ; and if you are defending this diatribe as normal behavior than you don't have the sense that God gave geese. But I say the smart play here is lets move on.

"Sense that God gave geese". Is that the equivalent of "common sense"?  ;D  Guilty as charged, Ray. Based on the history of Job's posts on the board, just giving the guy the benefit of the doubt and a fair shake, that's all. But further clarification/justification for saying those things has not been forthcoming, so it doesn't put him in a very good light, does it?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: NHC on October 11, 2014, 01:00:38 PM
Hey, How about them Cardinals?

Hey, how about them Giants?

That's more like it.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 11, 2014, 01:04:49 PM
Hey, How about them Cardinals?

Hey, how about them Giants?

That's more like it.

The Eagles will win Sunday night, predicting a close game, something like 34-28.

Oh, you meant the other Giants! Them I don't care about...never mind.  ;D

Someone zap this as off-topic, please.  :)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 11, 2014, 01:10:28 PM
I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

  • other members
  • how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on topic. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

I've had a death in the family and was at a wake yesterday.  I was considering resigning, as quite frankly the negativity is driving me nuts, and i feel like I'm not appreciated around here.

I start my new job in a couple of weeks. ...im going to be more active until then, and I'll reevaluate my status then.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ray Lawlor on October 11, 2014, 01:12:02 PM
I don't even know what the hell he was talking about ; and if you are defending this diatribe as normal behavior than you don't have the sense that God gave geese. But I say the smart play here is lets move on.

"Sense that God gave geese". Is that the equivalent of "common sense"?  ;D  Guilty as charged, Ray. Based on the history of Job's posts on the board, just giving the guy the benefit of the doubt and a fair shake, that's all. But further clarification/justification for saying those things has not been forthcoming, so it doesn't put him in a very good light, does it?

Mikie; the good news for me is that a new place just opened up right close to me...Das Biergarten.  All Geman beer on draft ; great Bavarian menu.  I am headed there tonight.  The definition of common sense !


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mendota Heights on October 11, 2014, 01:12:58 PM
I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

  • other members
  • how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on topic. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

I've had a death in the family and was at a wake yesterday.  I was considering resigning, as quite frankly the negativity is driving me nuts, and i feel like I'm not appreciated around here.

I start my new job in a couple of weeks. ...im going to be more active until then, and I'll reevaluate my status then.

I am sorry to hear that. And I don't want you to resign, just moderate the whole thing in a slightly different fashion.

No hard feelings.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: alf wiedersehen on October 11, 2014, 01:13:26 PM
I start my new job in a couple of weeks. ...

So happy to hear you got a new job, Billy!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 11, 2014, 01:16:47 PM
I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

  • other members
  • how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on topic. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

I've had a death in the family and was at a wake yesterday.  I was considering resigning, as quite frankly the negativity is driving me nuts, and i feel like I'm not appreciated around here.

I start my new job in a couple of weeks. ...im going to be more active until then, and I'll reevaluate my status then.

I am sorry to hear that. And I don't want you to resign, just moderate the whole thing in a slightly different fashion.

No hard feelings.

If you don't want a resignation, don't call for one in the first place. Simple as that.

And put suggestions where they belong, moving forward, and keep them free of sarcasm and calls to resign.

That's from me.



Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: NHC on October 11, 2014, 01:17:31 PM
I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

  • other members
  • how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on topic. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

I've had a death in the family and was at a wake yesterday.  I was considering resigning, as quite frankly the negativity is driving me nuts, and i feel like I'm not appreciated around here.

I start my new job in a couple of weeks. ...im going to be more active until then, and I'll reevaluate my status then.

Sorry to hear that, Billy.  Hang in there on all fronts, OK?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: bgas on October 11, 2014, 01:18:37 PM
I don't even know what the hell he was talking about ; and if you are defending this diatribe as normal behavior than you don't have the sense that God gave geese. But I say the smart play here is lets move on.

"Sense that God gave geese". Is that the equivalent of "common sense"?  ;D  Guilty as charged, Ray. Based on the history of Job's posts on the board, just giving the guy the benefit of the doubt and a fair shake, that's all. But further clarification/justification for saying those things has not been forthcoming, so it doesn't put him in a very good light, does it?

Mikie; the good news for me is that a new place just opened up right close to me...Das Biergarten.  All Geman beer on draft ; great Bavarian menu.  I am headed there tonight.  The definition of common sense !

Is this a really new place, or are your referring to The Biergarten at The Standard ?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 11, 2014, 01:19:44 PM
I don't even know what the hell he was talking about ; and if you are defending this diatribe as normal behavior than you don't have the sense that God gave geese. But I say the smart play here is lets move on.

"Sense that God gave geese". Is that the equivalent of "common sense"?  ;D  Guilty as charged, Ray. Based on the history of Job's posts on the board, just giving the guy the benefit of the doubt and a fair shake, that's all. But further clarification/justification for saying those things has not been forthcoming, so it doesn't put him in a very good light, does it?

Mikie; the good news for me is that a new place just opened up right close to me...Das Biergarten.  All Geman beer on draft ; great Bavarian menu.  I am headed there tonight.  The definition of common sense !

Sounds like a plan, Ray.  What better way to celebrate Octoberfest?  Careful, man; those strong German brewskis can knock ya on your keister!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ray Lawlor on October 11, 2014, 01:23:19 PM
I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

  • other members
  • how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on topic. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

I've had a death in the family and was at a wake yesterday.  I was considering resigning, as quite frankly the negativity is driving me nuts, and i feel like I'm not appreciated around here.

I start my new job in a couple of weeks. ...im going to be more active until then, and I'll reevaluate my status then.

Hey Billy; sorry to hear about the death in your family.

Sometimes this place feels like Gettysburg , Day 3.  I think you guys are doing a fine job; Guitarfool goes to great lengths to explain his positions to all the factions; some agree ; some disagree ;I don't think its easy to do; I would not have the patience to do it.

Hang in there    


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ray Lawlor on October 11, 2014, 01:29:54 PM
I don't even know what the hell he was talking about ; and if you are defending this diatribe as normal behavior than you don't have the sense that God gave geese. But I say the smart play here is lets move on.

"Sense that God gave geese". Is that the equivalent of "common sense"?  ;D  Guilty as charged, Ray. Based on the history of Job's posts on the board, just giving the guy the benefit of the doubt and a fair shake, that's all. But further clarification/justification for saying those things has not been forthcoming, so it doesn't put him in a very good light, does it?

Mikie; the good news for me is that a new place just opened up right close to me...Das Biergarten.  All Geman beer on draft ; great Bavarian menu.  I am headed there tonight.  The definition of common sense !

Is this a really new place, or are your referring to The Biergarten at The Standard ?

New place.  East Atlantic Beach


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ray Lawlor on October 11, 2014, 01:31:53 PM
I don't even know what the hell he was talking about ; and if you are defending this diatribe as normal behavior than you don't have the sense that God gave geese. But I say the smart play here is lets move on.

"Sense that God gave geese". Is that the equivalent of "common sense"?  ;D  Guilty as charged, Ray. Based on the history of Job's posts on the board, just giving the guy the benefit of the doubt and a fair shake, that's all. But further clarification/justification for saying those things has not been forthcoming, so it doesn't put him in a very good light, does it?

Mikie; the good news for me is that a new place just opened up right close to me...Das Biergarten.  All Geman beer on draft ; great Bavarian menu.  I am headed there tonight.  The definition of common sense !

Sounds like a plan, Ray.  What better way to celebrate Octoberfest?  Careful, man; those strong German brewskis can knock ya on your keister!


Yes , they can....they have HB which I really like....


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 11, 2014, 01:42:45 PM
I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

  • other members
  • how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on topic. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

I've had a death in the family and was at a wake yesterday.  I was considering resigning, as quite frankly the negativity is driving me nuts, and i feel like I'm not appreciated around here.

I start my new job in a couple of weeks. ...im going to be more active until then, and I'll reevaluate my status then.

I am sorry to hear that. And I don't want you to resign, just moderate the whole thing in a slightly different fashion.

No hard feelings.
look at my history here...I'm one of the least biased people here. How have i not been sensible? What different do you want from me?should  i ban people at the least offense on a whim? I'm legit asking...what different do you want? When things have gotten off topic in the past,  I'd get it right back on track. Again, i haven't been as active lately as i have enough going on off the board.  Is that why i should resign?

I wish this was through PM or something. ..i imagine a majority of the members here are tired of reading about the drama


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Cyncie on October 11, 2014, 02:16:21 PM
Aww, it's all good. I hope things get better for you soon Billy, and I hope you stay on.

This place can get a bit crazy at times. There's a lot of snark and cynicism here for a fan board dedicated to the Beach Boys,  a group that was about as uncynical as it gets. It can be off putting when all you want to do is enjoy the 'boys and their work. People will second guess how the board's run. But, second guessing everyone is what peeps do here. We second guess the touring band, the Wilson/Love family dynamic,  Brian Wilson's artistic choices and even the classic recordings (because everyone can do a better version of SMiLE than Brian did!)

Don't let it get to you. Stay healthy and happy.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 11, 2014, 02:18:25 PM
To Sheriff Stone: Thank you for the reply. I didn't want to veer out of the thread too much (and couldn't) but I'd like to reply.

My posts come from a pretty deep love and respect for the music of Brian Wilson, simple as that. I've said it many times before, but no music or art in general has gotten to me and influenced me as much as Brian's. No composer or arranger or producer has created work that has mattered as much to me personally as Brian Wilson. Wouldn't It Be Nice is the greatest song and studio performance I've ever heard, I won't even reveal some of the milestones where that song has coincided with various events in my personal life, or how listening to Smile has influenced me and inspired me to do certain things and make certain choices in life and career that have led to some great things. Is that overstating it? Probably. But that's my connection to the man and his music. Hearing that song hits me right in the gut, every time. It's that powerful for me to hear, simple as that.

I have never gotten a Christmas card from Brian Wilson, but the gifts through the music and inspiration have more than made up for not being on his card list.  :)

So I do get defensive, I am forceful, and I do express strong opinions when certain points come up. I don't like to see or read some of the negativity, I don't like to see things being said that may have been based on incorrect or even false information, and if I go overboard in stating those things, maybe that's who I am. I don't feel and don't post like Ive been charged with carrying anyone's banner, but I do feel like some efforts in setting the record straight are necessary. If I go overboard doing it, so be it. I've seen others here do the same things in issues from who played on recordings to dates of concerts and other points, I'm doing a similar thing.

It looks like you are often doing the same thing, taking shots various ways in favor of your opinions. So maybe we're both in the same situation? How have you reacted when various comments have been made over the past decades suggesting "Mike Love killed the Smile project", "the Beach Boys didn't play on most of their big hits", or even recently "Mike was the one who ended C50"? Did you accept those statements or did you challenge them? If you challenged them, does that mean you're 'defending' Mike or are you just reacting to something you felt was untrue? If you tried to argue against someone "new" coming onto the board and arguing that Mike killed the Smile project, are you shutting down that opinion, or are you making your points to clear up what you think is a false statement based on false assumptions? Or are you really trying to shut down that opinion because you find it absurd, period?

There isn't a separate standard for you than there is for me, so if I'm supposedly on a mission to defend something or someone and shut down opinions I don't agree with, you've been doing the same thing regarding comments about Brian or Mike. Let's not suggest we're not taking the same route.

There are very valid reasons to argue a point. There are also very valid reasons not to argue a point. If you don't accept that the latter is true, it opens up a scenario where a 3rd grader could make as valid a case in arguing that 2+2=5 as their teacher had just shown that 2+2=4 and their class had just accepted that 2+2=4. If that's the kind of ambiguity that should be acceptable, knowledge and learning is doomed because the right answers are no more valid than the wrong. You'd need to spend as much time convincing the class that 2+2 does not equal 5 as you would going on the accepted knowledge that 2+2 equals 4, and always will. How constructive would it be to entertain a notion you know to be false from it's very core?

I don't have a mission, I'm not protecting anyone or carrying any flags for anyone, but I do like to see opinions which are based on more fact than speculation, and in some cases the facts are clearly laid out enough to make that judgement before pushing an argument or an agenda.

I'm also not a fan of the negativity that has met a lot of Brian Wilson's activities since 2012, I really don't understand where it comes from or what is driving it. But I don't like to see the same kinds of comments greet the announcements anymore than I'm sure you enjoy seeing "Mike killed Smile" whenever a Smile discussion happens, here or on other outlets like YouTube.

I'd rather come to this board to celebrate the music, share, and enjoy, even "accentuate the positive" with other fans...ultimate goal, to leave with a smile and log off feeling good. I much prefer that.  :)  When that wasn't the case, especially in the last two days, it felt like something was seriously broken.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: job on October 11, 2014, 02:47:07 PM
Now he'll never get those unsurpassed masters CDs :(

I wasn't looking for the UM CD's.  Love your name tho!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: bgas on October 11, 2014, 03:08:40 PM
Thay say that Job is back


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Fire Wind on October 11, 2014, 03:28:25 PM
Dotted around the stage - not the audience. There were other, more capable cameras being wielded around on stage too, if memory serves. Assume the audio would have been professionally recorded also, if they were going to all that effort with the visuals.

Yeah, I recall there were a couple of guys on stage with proper cameras, looking like they were getting some great footage at times.  Weren't they from, or linked to, that company that tried to crowd-fund a DVD after C50 ended?  Whatever happened to that?  That must have been decent, professional footage.  If they were at all shows, they must have a ton of it.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ontor pertawst on October 11, 2014, 03:30:04 PM
Someone tell me where the footage is and then deny all knowledge of my subsequent activities. Thanks.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: runnersdialzero on October 11, 2014, 03:40:26 PM
Yep! The wife and managers seem to know what they're doing, huh? At least when it comes to Brian's legacy and solo career.......

Nope.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 11, 2014, 04:06:00 PM
Yep! The wife and managers seem to know what they're doing, huh? At least when it comes to Brian's legacy and solo career.......

Nope.

Would you care to expound on your "Nope" answer and give us your reasons why you think the wife/managers don't know what they're doing?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: mikeddonn on October 11, 2014, 04:30:09 PM
Since around the release of Imagination (and even guest vocal spots beforehand) Brian has been in demand, more so than his old band.

The prestigious shows, the documentaries, the record deals, the tribute shows and now more recently being on McCartney's tribute album.  Then there's also being at the George Harrison Tribute show, the Hollywood film, the new album in the pipeline and now having his song chosen as a charity single featuring many many current and contemporary artists. 

It's wonderful seeing Brian's solo career continue to flourish in a way few of us could have imagined 20 years ago.  The guy is a legend and is outdoing his old band at every turn and has been for a while.  I imagine Mr Brian Douglas Wilson will have a sense of satisfaction when he thinks about it.  And Melinda and the rest of 'team' Wilson will also have wry smiles considering the criticism they've taken over the years regarding career decisions.  I'd say they've got it all spot on and Brian's legacy is safe and secure.  Thank you Brian!

I agree with all of that, except for your incessant need to insult the Beach Boys. 

Sorry, but whereas this "incessant need" that you see? I see him mentioning obvious things. Brian has outdone what "The Beach Boys" have done since 1998. Recording-wise he surely has, as the group "The Beach Boys" hasn't recorded anything without him in this time period. Also, he did outdo them in the live show department with his Pet Sounds and SMiLE live tours, amongst others. And wouldn't you know it, after he raised the bar, the Mike and Bruce show also upped their game, putting on some of their most varied shows. And one would have to imagine that Mike dug deeper and did deeper material because of what Brian was doing. Sure seems like it to me, as he showed little to no interest in doing much in the way of deep cuts pre-2004 (or at the very least, not many...maybe an "All This Is That" here, or maybe a "Sail On, Sailor" there). So yeah, Brian outdid "The Beach Boys".

Is he now? Well touring-wise, there's not much competition. Mike's out there, he ain't for the most part. On the other hand, BRIAN WILSON is out there with the new "God Only Knows" BBC thing, whereas maybe it could've been a BEACH BOYS thing if Mike hadn't decided to end what Brian and Al wanted to continue. And recording-wise, well there's no competition. Even if Brian's album is bad, at least he has the guts to release it. Mike on the other hand, has had a solid, workmanlike album done since when, the BWPS era, which he's apparently afraid to release. So yeah. I want Mike to prove me wrong and make some moves. But as of now, he's just being risk-averse old Mike. Which yes, keeps things on an even keel, but at the same time makes for less highs.

Thank you Jim! :).

The above post from Ron is an example of how this thread has turned out.  He says I have an incessant need to insult the Beach Boys.  Now how could someone read my original post and come to that conclusion?  I have seen Mike and Bruce everytime they have played here in Scotland, and hopefully they'll be back!

As for Job.  Ray dealt with what he perceived to be sarcastic comments (which certainly came across as such) in his own way, without needing help.  He's big enough to handle it himself thankfully and I'm sure will, hopefully, continue to post here.  That should have been the end of it and everyone should have moved on.  We can all make up our own minds about those who feel the need to insult others.

I also want to thank those who tried at various times to get the thread back on task! ;D

Now, it looks like Brian is heading back to the top of the charts!  Isn't that a lovely thing?! :)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 11, 2014, 04:40:50 PM
Keeping things on track...

  It is an exciting time to be a fan of Brian and his music.  This is the most 'in' Brian has been since about 1995. One of my friend's daughters just turned 18, and just graduated from high school. Her friends that are still there (the juniors turned seniors) often name drop Brian Wilson, and so do a lot of their other friends, but some of those kids just 'do it to be cool'. And, a lot of them are the type of girl you see smoking in the bathroom, drinking energy drinks, steal boyfriends from each other, think just because they smoke weed and like reggae that makes them 'rasta'...walk around the neighborhood barefoot...anyway, those kids name drop Brian because he's 'cool'. Maybe this might lead some of them to actually discover (and like) his music.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 11, 2014, 04:44:05 PM
As for Job.  Ray dealt with what he perceived to be sarcastic comments (which certainly came across as such) in his own way, without needing help.  He's big enough to handle it himself thankfully and I'm sure will, hopefully, continue to post here. 

We knew that way back on the first thread. But we dealt with it ourselves anyway (with a little help from the Mod) to show a little respect and support. Ray's a big boy and can handle himself, but some people are not; they're a lot more sensitive and will just leave instead of waiting around to see how its dealt with.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 11, 2014, 04:47:28 PM
In any case, I'd like us to move on from what happened, and get back on track. I'm sorry I wasn't around to take care of things, but what's done is done.

Love and Mercy everybody.



Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on October 11, 2014, 04:48:01 PM
To Sheriff Stone: Thank you for the reply. I didn't want to veer out of the thread too much (and couldn't) but I'd like to reply.

My posts come from a pretty deep love and respect for the music of Brian Wilson, simple as that. I've said it many times before, but no music or art in general has gotten to me and influenced me as much as Brian's. No composer or arranger or producer has created work that has mattered as much to me personally as Brian Wilson. Wouldn't It Be Nice is the greatest song and studio performance I've ever heard, I won't even reveal some of the milestones where that song has coincided with various events in my personal life, or how listening to Smile has influenced me and inspired me to do certain things and make certain choices in life and career that have led to some great things. Is that overstating it? Probably. But that's my connection to the man and his music. Hearing that song hits me right in the gut, every time. It's that powerful for me to hear, simple as that.

I have never gotten a Christmas card from Brian Wilson, but the gifts through the music and inspiration have more than made up for not being on his card list.  :)

So I do get defensive, I am forceful, and I do express strong opinions when certain points come up. I don't like to see or read some of the negativity, I don't like to see things being said that may have been based on incorrect or even false information, and if I go overboard in stating those things, maybe that's who I am. I don't feel and don't post like Ive been charged with carrying anyone's banner, but I do feel like some efforts in setting the record straight are necessary. If I go overboard doing it, so be it. I've seen others here do the same things in issues from who played on recordings to dates of concerts and other points, I'm doing a similar thing.

It looks like you are often doing the same thing, taking shots various ways in favor of your opinions. So maybe we're both in the same situation? How have you reacted when various comments have been made over the past decades suggesting "Mike Love killed the Smile project", "the Beach Boys didn't play on most of their big hits", or even recently "Mike was the one who ended C50"? Did you accept those statements or did you challenge them? If you challenged them, does that mean you're 'defending' Mike or are you just reacting to something you felt was untrue? If you tried to argue against someone "new" coming onto the board and arguing that Mike killed the Smile project, are you shutting down that opinion, or are you making your points to clear up what you think is a false statement based on false assumptions? Or are you really trying to shut down that opinion because you find it absurd, period?

There isn't a separate standard for you than there is for me, so if I'm supposedly on a mission to defend something or someone and shut down opinions I don't agree with, you've been doing the same thing regarding comments about Brian or Mike. Let's not suggest we're not taking the same route.

There are very valid reasons to argue a point. There are also very valid reasons not to argue a point. If you don't accept that the latter is true, it opens up a scenario where a 3rd grader could make as valid a case in arguing that 2+2=5 as their teacher had just shown that 2+2=4 and their class had just accepted that 2+2=4. If that's the kind of ambiguity that should be acceptable, knowledge and learning is doomed because the right answers are no more valid than the wrong. You'd need to spend as much time convincing the class that 2+2 does not equal 5 as you would going on the accepted knowledge that 2+2 equals 4, and always will. How constructive would it be to entertain a notion you know to be false from it's very core?

I don't have a mission, I'm not protecting anyone or carrying any flags for anyone, but I do like to see opinions which are based on more fact than speculation, and in some cases the facts are clearly laid out enough to make that judgement before pushing an argument or an agenda.

I'm also not a fan of the negativity that has met a lot of Brian Wilson's activities since 2012, I really don't understand where it comes from or what is driving it. But I don't like to see the same kinds of comments greet the announcements anymore than I'm sure you enjoy seeing "Mike killed Smile" whenever a Smile discussion happens, here or on other outlets like YouTube.

I'd rather come to this board to celebrate the music, share, and enjoy, even "accentuate the positive" with other fans...ultimate goal, to leave with a smile and log off feeling good. I much prefer that.  :)  When that wasn't the case, especially in the last two days, it felt like something was seriously broken.

Another excellent and fair post, and you know I have to respond... :)

I am sincere when I tell you that I appreciate your passion for the music AND the composer. While I can't really measure your degree of passion vs. mine or anybody else's, I can easily see by your writing that it is very strong. Extremely strong. I CAN relate to you in that area. The area where I think - no, I know - we are different is in our feelings (presently) about the composer(s). There was a time when I felt equally passionate about the music AND the people who composed it. Sadly, I guess it's sadly, I no longer feel quite the same way; the gap has widened. After 42 years of reading about it, writing about it, talking about it, and living through it, my feelings about Brian, Mike, Dennis, Carl, and Bruce have changed. I'm not going to get into it here. Let's just say that I don't feel the need to advocate for them like I used to. Decades and decades of The Beach Boys' Soap Opera can do that to a person! :-D Oh, there are still times when I get riled up pretty good, I mean, there has to be several reasons why I/we spend entirely too much time on this board. So, I do understand why you feel the way you do regarding the artist. I'll just say that sometimes I wish it was 1974 and I was a newbie again and I hadn't read anything!

I do want to clarify one thing before I sign off. Now, don't fall off your chair when I say this, but I am NOT pro-Mike Love. I mean, I appreciate his talents and I thank him for years of musical pleasure, but I don't even like the guy. I absolutely do feel, however, that there is a pronounced pro-Brian/anti-Mike Love bias on this board. So, when there is a debate going on, and I don't think that Mike Love is getting a fair shake or enough representation, I'll jump in. No doubt about that. I don't want to appear hypocritical (you know I'm on that kick lately) and I don't want to contradict what I just wrote above, but it's not so much that I'm defending or advocating for Mike Love, the artist or the individual. It's just that I like to see a fair debate. It's not trolling; I believe and feel strongly about every word I write. I'm just trying to let the other side, maybe the unpopular side, be heard, not scared off.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 11, 2014, 04:52:59 PM
In any case, I'd like us to move on from what happened, and get back on track. I'm sorry I wasn't around to take care of things, but what's done is done.

Love and Mercy everybody.



Yeah, but......


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: mikeddonn on October 11, 2014, 04:55:05 PM
In any case, I'd like us to move on from what happened, and get back on track. I'm sorry I wasn't around to take care of things, but what's done is done.

Love and Mercy everybody.



Billy, sorry for your loss and good to have you back!  Good luck with the new job too!

On topic, I can't believe how active all of The Beach Boys (and a lot of their peers still are).  I hope I have the energy when I'm my 70s!  


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 11, 2014, 05:02:04 PM
I have to comment on this...

Quote
I mean, I appreciate his talents and I thank him for years of musical pleasure, but I don't even like the guy. I absolutely do feel, however, that there is a pronounced pro-Brian/anti-Mike Love bias on this board.

Other people have said just the opposite, that the board is anti-Brian/pro-Mike. I felt that was wrong then, and this is wrong now. I have noticed that those are on the extreme on either side are more vocal than those who are not picking sides, or are more moderate/flexible. As for me, well, it's about the music. I've never met Brian or Mike (or Al, Dave, Carl, Dennis, Ricky, Blondie, whatever). Everyone I've ever interacted with affiliated with either one have all been without exception pleasant and cool to talk to. So, to be perfectly blunt, I'm not going to choose sides because, quite frankly, in the end I just care about the music.

Rant over.



Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 11, 2014, 05:03:17 PM
In any case, I'd like us to move on from what happened, and get back on track. I'm sorry I wasn't around to take care of things, but what's done is done.

Love and Mercy everybody.



Billy, sorry for your loss and good to have you back!  Good luck with the new job too!

On topic, I can't believe how active all of The Beach Boys (and a lot of their peers still are).  I hope I have the energy when I'm my 70s! 

Thanks dude...appreciate that.

Definitely second that notion...I'm 36 and the schedule of these guys would wear me out quick (but I certainly wouldn't be complaining!)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 11, 2014, 05:26:27 PM
So a night on the town and back to what appears to be things getting back on track.

Billy, really sorry for you loss. I know things haven't gone as you might have wanted them for a while but you're one resilient guy and it's good to have you back with us and I wish you all the very best with the new position of employment. I nearly said "job"… good to see an apparent resolution there too anyways!

Ray, Mikie, I tried four different ales tonight but would rather have had a night drinking Sierra Nevada beers in South Lake … maybe next year.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: mikeddonn on October 11, 2014, 05:34:34 PM
The Germans will be crying into their beers after the football (soccer) result v Poland!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 11, 2014, 05:44:18 PM
I am going reillerate the billy to replace Bruce movement! ;)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Wirestone on October 11, 2014, 06:04:25 PM
I think the sketchy version of it all is this. Throughout much of the '90s, the boards were very pro-Brian. In the early oughts, there was a pronounced shift to looking at the band as a whole, and recognizing everyone's contributions. The early astonishment of seeing BW out and about and recording was also replaced with familiarity, and we all know what that breeds. The simplest way to recognize this shift is to compare the boxed sets -- Good Vibes is all about BW as auteur, while Made in California makes an honest (though sometimes misplaced) effort to showcase everyone's work.

As the 2000s passed, some people migrated to Brian's camp -- not because they thought he was god, but because they preferred his work, made connections with the band, preferred his shows -- and some folks moved toward what Mike was doing (which improved dramatically over the same timespan). You also had a subset of folks who found the older recordings the only real points of interest.

All the sides came together for the C50 and Smile box, because everyone united for that. And there was harmony and peace and love. And then it broke apart, and what might have been only preferences before hardened into factions. What had been once restive fiefdoms, and then a unified country, descended into all-out civil war (Ray's mention of Gettysburg was most apt).

Given the amount of flak Mike received for the end of the tour, there was a natural, vociferous defense of his stance. And in the last few months, as Brian has seen his profile raise again with the new album, etc., a lot of his fans are speaking more loudly and demanding that the kind of statements that were once accepted or ignored (wifeandmanagers, the usual insinuations that BW is someone else's puppet) be backed up.

Mike was maligned, probably unfairly, for decades. His defenders are correct on that score, and have the right to say so. And Brian has been subject, for nearly 20 years, to baseless speculation about the choices he's made in his personal life and career. His defenders (of whom I'm obviously one) have the right to point that out. I wish I could see it getting better, but the last couple of years have been rough.

(http://media.tumblr.com/257137a2368f7a1ffae4ef362a224b98/tumblr_inline_nd3gfiMHdc1ruplqa.gif)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Nicko1234 on October 11, 2014, 07:14:00 PM
look at my history here...I'm one of the least biased people here. How have i not been sensible? What different do you want from me?should  i ban people at the least offense on a whim? I'm legit asking...what different do you want? When things have gotten off topic in the past,  I'd get it right back on track. Again, i haven't been as active lately as i have enough going on off the board.  Is that why i should resign?

I wish this was through PM or something. ..i imagine a majority of the members here are tired of reading about the drama

You definitely shouldn`t resign Billy. You have done a great job for a long time in presiding over the madness here and have done it with out taking sides or showing bias towards or against any posters.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 11, 2014, 07:14:51 PM
Billy C. for president!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 11, 2014, 07:24:01 PM
Ray, Mikie, I tried four different ales tonight but would rather have had a night drinking Sierra Nevada beers in South Lake … maybe next year.

There ya go. Now you're talkin'!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ray Lawlor on October 11, 2014, 07:29:12 PM
Ray, Mikie, I tried four different ales tonight but would rather have had a night drinking Sierra Nevada beers in South Lake … maybe next year.

There ya go. Now you're talkin'!

John...what were they ?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: bgas on October 11, 2014, 08:13:32 PM
Ray, Mikie, I tried four different ales tonight but would rather have had a night drinking Sierra Nevada beers in South Lake … maybe next year.

There ya go. Now you're talkin'!

John...what were they ?

English swill


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 12, 2014, 12:37:49 AM
Ray, Mikie, I tried four different ales tonight but would rather have had a night drinking Sierra Nevada beers in South Lake … maybe next year.

There ya go. Now you're talkin'!

John...what were they ?

English swill

Dark Horse Best Bitter
Moorhouse's Black Cat
Curiously Orange, which I thought was a Crafty Dan brew but apparently not…
And an amber ale, the name of which escapes me…

Aye, all English swills. I only drink Sierra beer because they named it after my daughter.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Smilin Ed H on October 12, 2014, 02:57:59 AM
I had Landlord (not as good as it should be), Auld Hemp (better), London Pride (good) and Doombar (so-so).


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: mtaber on October 12, 2014, 03:55:59 AM
...and, once again, alcohol saves the board!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 12, 2014, 04:07:09 AM
I'll drink to that…


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ray Lawlor on October 12, 2014, 06:22:49 AM
Ray, Mikie, I tried four different ales tonight but would rather have had a night drinking Sierra Nevada beers in South Lake … maybe next year.

There ya go. Now you're talkin'!

John...what were they ?

English swill

Dark Horse Best Bitter
Moorhouse's Black Cat
Curiously Orange, which I thought was a Crafty Dan brew but apparently not…
And an amber ale, the name of which escapes me…

Aye, all English swills. I only drink Sierra beer because they named it after my daughter.

John;  it all sounds horrible to me.  Anything that mixes fruit and beer does not make any sense in my opinion.  When ordering a Dos XX or Pacifico here in NY , I specify every time and every round....no g.d...mn fruit please ! 

For a bitter , I like John Smith's Original Bitter; I hijacked about 8 of them from the Admirals Club in Heathrow in March.....just about out , unfortunately. I can't get it here, ufortunately.

The Sierra Nevada is pretty damn good


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: the captain on October 12, 2014, 07:32:32 AM

Anything that mixes fruit and beer does not make any sense in my opinion.  When ordering a Dos XX or Pacifico here in NY , I specify every time and every round....no g.d...mn fruit please ! 


I'm of a similar mind, but not quite to that level. Certain things that have a hint of citrus can work, but the things that are intentionally fruit-first (berry this-or-that) or frankly otherwise flavored (maple, pumpkin, coffee) just don't work for me. As with food--or music, for that matter--sometimes the best things are the simplest things, well executed.

To make sure I get an on-topic (or at least sort-of on-topic) note, with respect to any biases the board overall has, I would propose the possibility--without assuming anyone's intentions, which is without question record-breaking twaddle--that people tend to find a bias against themselves or their camps in any situation. Analogously (and I'm not trying to get into this topic, just use it as an analogy), people of one political bent rant that society or the media is against them; amusingly, their politically opposed clique views the same society and media and finds it against them. The board itself has no bias. Its members, individually or in small groups, might. But it doesn't matter anyway, and if we're all conscious of holding ourselves to some semblance of civility, life will go on. After all, it's just a fucking message board... If it's the most pro-Mike place (or pro-Brian, or pro-whomever), it still doesn't matter. We participate. Or we don't. Not a big deal.

Now, just because I'm rambling and it's fun and no doubt you're all enjoying it [...stops to scan the faces in the crowd, sees nodding heads, hears encouraging words, continues...], how about something directly on topic? Okay.

I'm not sure Brian's stock is rising. It's not falling, either. But it seems to me to be about where it has been since the mid-90s, anyway, which is as an established master of pop. Yes, he has an additional 20 years of once-surprising "comeback" since then. But otherwise, I'm not so sure. Big charity single is cool for him and apparently doing well, but if we're talking about it from a recognition standpoint, we've got some 15 years of awards and tributes to look at as well. If by "stock rising" we mean album sales or airplay, I guess we'll find out sometime in the relatively near future. I'm not sure the BBC single is an appropriate measure of that, or at least not a typical one, since it's an all-star situation with his song, granted, but with his performance limited to a few little bits. No disrespect intended.

That was a long post. It was fun. The end.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 12, 2014, 09:46:51 AM
Yeah, you're never gonna go wrong with a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and a good steak.  Kegger, dude!

http://www.sierranevada.com/beer/year-round/pale-ale


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 12, 2014, 11:33:24 AM
The Curiously Orange doesn't contain fruit, it's a ref to the hoppy taste (I think) - bit like Tetley's bitter, when done properly, has an aroma of banana even though it has never seen a banana.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: urbanite on October 12, 2014, 01:55:30 PM
I like to sample different beers, but do not care for the hint of a fruit taste, like raspberry, in my beer.  The Belgian beers are generally good, but seem to have a higher alcohol content, which leaves me with a headache in the morning.   When I was younger, a bit of a hangover was tolerable, but not anymore.   


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 12, 2014, 01:59:18 PM
Tonight's was two pints of Hetton Brewery's Dark Horse bitter - very quaffable. And I fell asleep snoring on the sofa an hour ago.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: bgas on October 12, 2014, 02:20:03 PM
I like to sample different beers, but do not care for the hint of a fruit taste, like raspberry, in my beer.  The Belgian beers are generally good, but seem to have a higher alcohol content, which leaves me with a headache in the morning.   When I was younger, a bit of a hangover was tolerable, but not anymore.   

Amen to that


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 12, 2014, 02:29:38 PM
I don't like the way this thread seems to be turning very fruitist. Fruits have feelings too…


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: bgas on October 12, 2014, 02:37:38 PM
I don't like the way this thread seems to be turning very fruitist. Fruits have feelings too…

Seems a very prejudiced thing to say


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 12, 2014, 02:50:18 PM
I don't like the way this thread seems to be turning very fruitist. Fruits have feelings too…

Seems a very prejudiced thing to say

Prejuiced? Of course, I'm a Limey!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Lowbacca on October 12, 2014, 02:56:10 PM
I don't like the way this thread seems to be turning very fruitist. Fruits have feelings too…

Seems a very prejudiced thing to say
Prejuiced, you say?



EDIT:

I don't like the way this thread seems to be turning very fruitist. Fruits have feelings too…

Seems a very prejudiced thing to say

Prejuiced? Of course, I'm a Limey!
DAMNIT, you did it first. :P


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: rab2591 on October 12, 2014, 02:58:46 PM
I don't like the way this thread seems to be turning very fruitist. Fruits have feelings too…

Seems a very prejudiced thing to say

Prejuiced? Of course, I'm a Limey!

Don't be so sour!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ed Roach on October 12, 2014, 03:06:29 PM
Yeah, you're never gonna go wrong with a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and a good steak.  Kegger, dude!

http://www.sierranevada.com/beer/year-round/pale-ale

Myself, I'm a dedicated Sierra Torpedo Extra IPA man, but they had a really good 4Way IPA out in 12 packs this past summer

http://www.sierranevada.com/beer/year-round/torpedo-extra-ipa


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: mikeddonn on October 12, 2014, 03:49:01 PM
Ed, they sell that here in the UK.  I'll need to check it out.  Cheers ;D


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 12, 2014, 03:52:50 PM
Our local supermarket stocks SN beers here in t'Dales… will see what they have next visit.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 12, 2014, 10:51:31 PM
For once, I am glad to see this topic turned onto the topic of beer, as in this case a bit of levity is greatly appreciated. I do want to comment on something, and I promise I will leave it alone after this.

I'm sorry that I haven't been around...recent loss in the family and such, which I admit has distracted me from the board this week. I feel bad because I left my fellow moderator in the wind so to speak, and every decision we make is always done as a consensus. I have not made my thoughts clear on the situation which is now (finally) handled, but there is something I must say, and it's a long time coming.

I've been a part of BB/BW boards for 18 years, the past 8 1/2 as a moderator. I've seen longterm posters on this board such as Mikie, luminaries such as Andrew Doe and  Jon Stebbins, teens getting turned on to their music and growing into young adulthood as their fandom grew too, guys I've come to know over these many years, guys that if I met in person and had the cash, would go chill at a local eatery with, and (as the saying goes) shoot the sh*t with.  This board is *the* top BB forum on the web for a *reason*. We have as members of our forum people close to our favorite band on the planet. Now, I think that is pretty damn cool. I've been fans of other artists who are, shall we say, much more standoffish and aloof, and this extends to their circle (inner, outer, or in-between). The thing I really want everyone to remember, is that *every* member here, whether the most honored of guests or the newest of the new members, to my self and the other moderators...at the end of the day, we're all just people, and all deserving of basic human respect. Treat each other with decency. That's all I ask. Occasionally, a situation may develop when a member is suspended or banned. It doesn't happen on a whim or without careful consideration. It also doesn't happen without the approval or knowledge of the other moderators. I've been on forums where this wasn't the case, where being a moderator was all about who could be the biggest prick. That's not the case here. It doesn't matter if you're a Brianista, Kokomo-ist, Marks-ist, Jarhead, or whatever clever name Bruce diehards have (help me out here :lol )...all viewpoints are welcome. The only important thing to remember is, though, we all need to treat each other with respect, because we all deserve the same.

Now, with that said, although I cannot imbibe, I'm raising a cup of pomegranate tea to all of you.

And on the original topic about Brian's status...I heard part of  the BWPS version of 'Fire' used as a backing track for someone to freestyle over it  yesterday.  Wasn't bad, either. I asked him what made him choose that for the backing, he told me that there's folk who discovered Brian because of the J Dilla Pet Sounds mashup, and that someone did a mashup with the Friends album here in Houston!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 12, 2014, 11:02:24 PM
Cheers, Billy!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Alan Smith on October 13, 2014, 12:43:45 AM
The Curiously Orange doesn't contain fruit, it's a ref to the hoppy taste (I think) - bit like Tetley's bitter, when done properly, has an aroma of banana even though it has never seen a banana.
The banana thing comes from how the kind of yeast in this kind beer metabolises. 

Wish I could get a hold of these fruity ales - as a staunch Shirazist, I've long lost the taste for lagers (clear beer)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on October 13, 2014, 03:36:47 AM
I'm so sorry, I seem to have stumbled into a meeting of Alcoholics Unanimous by mistake. :)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Lowbacca on October 13, 2014, 03:43:14 AM
I'm so sorry, I seem to have stumbled into a meeting of Alcoholics Unanimous by mistake. :)
By mistake? ;D


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 13, 2014, 07:59:04 AM
I started a new topic and thread here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18396.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18396.0.html)  to talk beer, wine, liquor, etc. There are so many good recommendations and varieties mentioned that I'd like to try, but they're scattered in various threads. I thought it would be good to have a place specifically for them, replacing any previous threads that have run their course. I started the discussion with a mention of a current seasonal variety. Any discussions are welcome and encouraged at the "Beer..." thread, please drop by and help yourself to the complimentary peanuts, pretzels, and pickled eggs.  ;D


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mooger Fooger on October 13, 2014, 08:26:16 AM
As we are discussing the virtues of beer, I have to add my two cents worth. I love Jever Pils, which is a north german beer and very bitter. For refreshments on a hot summers day, nothing beats it. Then I like Baltika 9, a russian strong beer (10%) or Faxe (Danish with same %). I also like Hoegaarden white beer, Leffe Blond and Kwak, all from Belgium. When in Oz, then I head straight for Reschs or Tooheys.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 13, 2014, 08:48:05 AM
Along with Billy's post addressing the issues in this thread that happened over the past few days, I'd like to address and clarify specifically the issue of the ban and what happened in the aftermath for which some posters had questions and concerns.

The decision to ban in this thread was done with the knowledge and agreement of all three active moderators of the board. Everyone knew and was informed what was happening, and the decision made to ban was done with a consensus of agreement. Any issues like this are decided that way, and discussed among the moderators so everyone is in agreement with the actions taken. Decisions like this are not taken lightly. The preferred way of handling these things is to give ample opportunity through warnings or suggestions for the involved parties to work things out, ranging from making peace, to an apology, to simply walking away and moving forward. When these are offered as options but repeatedly ignored, and if the situation shows little sign of getting better before it gets worse, then the stronger action is taken in the form of a ban, even if it's considered a time-out to cool down and diffuse a conflict or hostility. In more serious violations of policy or egregious violations of policies, the ban is more strongly and immediately applied, leading up to the lifetime ban. That is a last resort. It is done with the idea of moving the board forward.

In this particular thread's situation, a ban was put into place. All moderators were on board with that decision. The usual procedures were applied to enact that ban.

Within 24 hours, the board member who was given the ban was somehow able to log in and post to this thread. This should not have happened, and the reasons how and why this happened or even could happen in light of the process in place is being investigated. *None* of the moderators lifted or altered the ban, and the ban was still in place when the post appeared. There are several areas that are covered in the process, yet somehow there was a flaw or an open door that was either exploited or avoided in order for a member who had been banned to post under the same screen name and with the same account. This is being looked at, basically it cannot and should not have happened.

I know there was some confusion and some questions as to what happened after that post appeared. Let me state very clearly: The ban which was a consensus among the moderators was not lifted, or altered in any way by any of the moderators. The post was made in spite of that member account being banned.

That brings up my main point to tie into Billy's post. It comes down to showing respect, once again. When a ban or a warning is issued, please respect it. Without knowing the full reasons why this happened from a tech standpoint, what happened is that a member who was banned chose to return to the board less than 24 hours after the ban was issued and post. Whatever the rationale, it felt like a slap in the face...honestly, to the moderators and the decision made, to the membership of the board, to me personally as the moderator most engaged in the issue at that specific time, to the members who had been engaged in the thread specifically, and to the board as a whole.

That cannot be tolerated. When a decision is made like this, please respect the decision and respect the board and fellow board members and take some time to cool off, take a break from posting, step away for a bit, whatever the case. It was not appropriate nor was it welcome to have a ban ignored as it was here. In this specific situation, consider the content of what was posted in spite of the ban and weigh that into the thread as a whole.

The way in which a ban was sidestepped to allow a post to be made by a banned member is, again, being looked into so anything that needs to be addressed or fixed will be followed up.

Consider even if there were a way to short-circuit or sidestep the ban itself to allow a post, the *message* sent by the ban should still have been respected.

I feel this had to be addressed and clarified specifically in order to answer any lingering questions or doubts, and move this discussion and the board in general above and beyond this situation.

Craig  :)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Cam Mott on October 13, 2014, 10:27:22 AM
I think Mikie hit the nail on the head a few pages back, regarding the "How do you know?" question. Let us not forget that it's not easy to tell emotion and inflection over a message board. The question asked by job may well have been a genuine, well meaning question of asking if or how Ray knew something as an actual fact, or just opinion. To others, it read as an aggressive attack. It seems to me that job's first big "mistake" was not knowing who Ray is, and having the guts to question him on something. To be honest, I didn't actually know who Ray was either until somebody informed me via pm that he is an "insider". I do know and understand the fact that certain members here should at times be shown a little more respect than others. After all, these people occasionally go out of their way to give us information we might normally not be able to have access to. But I also see an all to frequent "Us versus them" attitude. Let's not forget that we have all been a noob fan at one time or another, and we all can't know when a certain person has "ties" to parties involved that we don't, and that their word and knowledge on something is absolute fact, and is not to be questioned. Now having said all that, I do agree that job's posts about Ray's "minions", and saying things like "who needs them" was way out of line and inappropriate. But I do understand job's initial anger at the attitude given him way back at the beginning of this thread.

Agree on all counts. I've seen much worse here from the regulars that warranted a banning.  You explained it even better than I did, Octopus Prime. "Emotion" and "inflection" on a message board that can easily be misinterpreted. I understand Job's initial anger, and while he perhaps handled the responses inappropriately which resulted in a public hanging, I think this thing escalated quickly and should have been dropped two or three pages ago - apologies or no apologies. The damage to Job's rep on the board was already done, and it should have been left at his discretion to repair it (or not). Instead, there was a lot of unnecessary piling on, which I think was unwarranted.

I agree Mikie. Ray and AGD handled it, end of story.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: pixletwin on October 13, 2014, 10:31:06 AM
I think Mikie hit the nail on the head a few pages back, regarding the "How do you know?" question. Let us not forget that it's not easy to tell emotion and inflection over a message board. The question asked by job may well have been a genuine, well meaning question of asking if or how Ray knew something as an actual fact, or just opinion. To others, it read as an aggressive attack. It seems to me that job's first big "mistake" was not knowing who Ray is, and having the guts to question him on something. To be honest, I didn't actually know who Ray was either until somebody informed me via pm that he is an "insider". I do know and understand the fact that certain members here should at times be shown a little more respect than others. After all, these people occasionally go out of their way to give us information we might normally not be able to have access to. But I also see an all to frequent "Us versus them" attitude. Let's not forget that we have all been a noob fan at one time or another, and we all can't know when a certain person has "ties" to parties involved that we don't, and that their word and knowledge on something is absolute fact, and is not to be questioned. Now having said all that, I do agree that job's posts about Ray's "minions", and saying things like "who needs them" was way out of line and inappropriate. But I do understand job's initial anger at the attitude given him way back at the beginning of this thread.

Agree on all counts. I've seen much worse here from the regulars that warranted a banning.  You explained it even better than I did, Octopus Prime. "Emotion" and "inflection" on a message board that can easily be misinterpreted. I understand Job's initial anger, and while he perhaps handled the responses inappropriately which resulted in a public hanging, I think this thing escalated quickly and should have been dropped two or three pages ago - apologies or no apologies. The damage to Job's rep on the board was already done, and it should have been left at his discretion to repair it (or not). Instead, there was a lot of unnecessary piling on, which I think was unwarranted.

Mikie nailed it again. (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/images/smilies/goodpost.gif)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Ed Roach on October 13, 2014, 01:50:09 PM
Billy, so sorry for your loss, and glad to see you back!  Hope you are ok; that's always a rough time.

The other thing is I loved the body of your post.  Jon is always quick to point out that first and foremost, we are all fans of this brilliant music.  That is what brings us all together here


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: bgas on October 13, 2014, 02:09:38 PM
I think Mikie hit the nail on the head a few pages back, regarding the "How do you know?" question. Let us not forget that it's not easy to tell emotion and inflection over a message board. The question asked by job may well have been a genuine, well meaning question of asking if or how Ray knew something as an actual fact, or just opinion. To others, it read as an aggressive attack. It seems to me that job's first big "mistake" was not knowing who Ray is, and having the guts to question him on something. To be honest, I didn't actually know who Ray was either until somebody informed me via pm that he is an "insider". I do know and understand the fact that certain members here should at times be shown a little more respect than others. After all, these people occasionally go out of their way to give us information we might normally not be able to have access to. But I also see an all to frequent "Us versus them" attitude. Let's not forget that we have all been a noob fan at one time or another, and we all can't know when a certain person has "ties" to parties involved that we don't, and that their word and knowledge on something is absolute fact, and is not to be questioned. Now having said all that, I do agree that job's posts about Ray's "minions", and saying things like "who needs them" was way out of line and inappropriate. But I do understand job's initial anger at the attitude given him way back at the beginning of this thread.

Agree on all counts. I've seen much worse here from the regulars that warranted a banning.  You explained it even better than I did, Octopus Prime. "Emotion" and "inflection" on a message board that can easily be misinterpreted. I understand Job's initial anger, and while he perhaps handled the responses inappropriately which resulted in a public hanging, I think this thing escalated quickly and should have been dropped two or three pages ago - apologies or no apologies. The damage to Job's rep on the board was already done, and it should have been left at his discretion to repair it (or not). Instead, there was a lot of unnecessary piling on, which I think was unwarranted.

I agree Mikie. Ray and AGD handled it, end of story.


Mikie nailed it again. (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/images/smilies/goodpost.gif)

Then Maybe the three of you, Mikie, Cam and Pixle should start your own board and post there, since you evidently don't think the mods are doing thir "job"; especially  Cam and Pixle as Craig has already given a detailed explanation and you stillsee the need to be post your horses asses opinions


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: pixletwin on October 13, 2014, 02:37:36 PM
bigass, don't take it personally mmmkay?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Cam Mott on October 13, 2014, 02:38:03 PM
I think Mikie hit the nail on the head a few pages back, regarding the "How do you know?" question. Let us not forget that it's not easy to tell emotion and inflection over a message board. The question asked by job may well have been a genuine, well meaning question of asking if or how Ray knew something as an actual fact, or just opinion. To others, it read as an aggressive attack. It seems to me that job's first big "mistake" was not knowing who Ray is, and having the guts to question him on something. To be honest, I didn't actually know who Ray was either until somebody informed me via pm that he is an "insider". I do know and understand the fact that certain members here should at times be shown a little more respect than others. After all, these people occasionally go out of their way to give us information we might normally not be able to have access to. But I also see an all to frequent "Us versus them" attitude. Let's not forget that we have all been a noob fan at one time or another, and we all can't know when a certain person has "ties" to parties involved that we don't, and that their word and knowledge on something is absolute fact, and is not to be questioned. Now having said all that, I do agree that job's posts about Ray's "minions", and saying things like "who needs them" was way out of line and inappropriate. But I do understand job's initial anger at the attitude given him way back at the beginning of this thread.

Agree on all counts. I've seen much worse here from the regulars that warranted a banning.  You explained it even better than I did, Octopus Prime. "Emotion" and "inflection" on a message board that can easily be misinterpreted. I understand Job's initial anger, and while he perhaps handled the responses inappropriately which resulted in a public hanging, I think this thing escalated quickly and should have been dropped two or three pages ago - apologies or no apologies. The damage to Job's rep on the board was already done, and it should have been left at his discretion to repair it (or not). Instead, there was a lot of unnecessary piling on, which I think was unwarranted.

I agree Mikie. Ray and AGD handled it, end of story.


Mikie nailed it again. (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/images/smilies/goodpost.gif)

Then Maybe the three of you, Mikie, Cam and Pixle should start your own board and post there, since you evidently don't think the mods are doing thir "job"; especially  Cam and Pixle as Craig has already given a detailed explanation and you stillsee the need to be post your horses asses opinions

"Horse's asses"? Won't that opinion get you banned? Hurry, apologize!  ;)

I read the explanations and the entire thread. The Mods have their opinion and I have mine, I think that is still allowed? They are the mods and get to make the call, I'm happy with that.

I hope Brian's stock continues to rise.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: pixletwin on October 13, 2014, 02:45:04 PM
Also since bigass is apparently keeping score, I would like to know what I ever posted to deserve being trolled so specifically?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: bgas on October 13, 2014, 02:48:33 PM
bigass, don't take it personally mmmkay?


Don't go getting your tit in a wringer Pox El Tween, it's not personal to me, only you


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: pixletwin on October 13, 2014, 02:50:44 PM
bigass, don't take it personally mmmkay?


Don't go getting your tit in a wringer Pox El Tween, it's not personal to me, only you

Oh. Do you normally not feel personally threatened enough by people's opinions that you call them horse's asses? Or only when you are anonymously posting on a message board?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ontor pertawst on October 13, 2014, 02:52:54 PM
Gentlemen, gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: rab2591 on October 13, 2014, 02:54:56 PM
Gentlemen, gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!

(http://i.imgur.com/lCLL1MC.gif)


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Cam Mott on October 13, 2014, 02:57:51 PM
Gentlemen, gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!

Good one.

I'm not fighting with bgas. We go way back message-board-wise.

I've never called him a name but he's earned his right to have his opinion of me. I just don't want him to get banned for naming his opinion of me.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 13, 2014, 03:43:19 PM
Then Maybe the three of you, Mikie, Cam and Pixle should start your own board and post there, since you evidently don't think the mods are doing thir "job"; especially  Cam and Pixle as Craig has already given a detailed explanation and you still see the need to be post your horses asses opinions

Really? Where in this thread have I said (or even suggested) one time that the Mods weren't doing their job?  I think you'd better take the time and go back and read a few pages on this thread, Bgas.  Be sure and read them closely, K?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mikie on October 13, 2014, 03:47:42 PM
Also since bigass is apparently keeping score, I would like to know what I ever posted to deserve being trolled so specifically?

Pix, you said it best. "Bigass." No need to go any further. 


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 13, 2014, 03:55:15 PM
Stop it guys...please. Take it to PMs or somewhere else off this board.

Thanks.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on October 13, 2014, 03:55:52 PM
Billy, so sorry for your loss, and glad to see you back!  Hope you are ok; that's always a rough time.

The other thing is I loved the body of your post.  Jon is always quick to point out that first and foremost, we are all fans of this brilliant music.  That is what brings us all together here

Thanks Ed....appreciate you


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: GhostyTMRS on October 13, 2014, 06:30:47 PM
I think the sketchy version of it all is this. Throughout much of the '90s, the boards were very pro-Brian. In the early oughts, there was a pronounced shift to looking at the band as a whole, and recognizing everyone's contributions. The early astonishment of seeing BW out and about and recording was also replaced with familiarity, and we all know what that breeds. The simplest way to recognize this shift is to compare the boxed sets -- Good Vibes is all about BW as auteur, while Made in California makes an honest (though sometimes misplaced) effort to showcase everyone's work.

As the 2000s passed, some people migrated to Brian's camp -- not because they thought he was god, but because they preferred his work, made connections with the band, preferred his shows -- and some folks moved toward what Mike was doing (which improved dramatically over the same timespan). You also had a subset of folks who found the older recordings the only real points of interest.

All the sides came together for the C50 and Smile box, because everyone united for that. And there was harmony and peace and love. And then it broke apart, and what might have been only preferences before hardened into factions. What had been once restive fiefdoms, and then a unified country, descended into all-out civil war (Ray's mention of Gettysburg was most apt).

Given the amount of flak Mike received for the end of the tour, there was a natural, vociferous defense of his stance. And in the last few months, as Brian has seen his profile raise again with the new album, etc., a lot of his fans are speaking more loudly and demanding that the kind of statements that were once accepted or ignored (wifeandmanagers, the usual insinuations that BW is someone else's puppet) be backed up.

Mike was maligned, probably unfairly, for decades. His defenders are correct on that score, and have the right to say so. And Brian has been subject, for nearly 20 years, to baseless speculation about the choices he's made in his personal life and career. His defenders (of whom I'm obviously one) have the right to point that out. I wish I could see it getting better, but the last couple of years have been rough.

(http://media.tumblr.com/257137a2368f7a1ffae4ef362a224b98/tumblr_inline_nd3gfiMHdc1ruplqa.gif)

This is the best response to what I've seen happening on this board. I'm very skeptical of the idea that any criticism of Brian's work must be coming from a "pro-Mike" faction. Imagine if Brian released GIOMH today and it was met with criticism (as it was in 2004). Would that negativity now be characterized as coming from a "pro-Mike" stance as an underhanded way of shutting down ANY criticism? That's where it seems this is all heading. What the hell does it even mean to be "pro-Mike"? How about pro-Beach Boys for a change? Wanting all the guys to do well either individually or collectively in their golden years because they've earned our affection based on all the great records of the past?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: GhostyTMRS on October 13, 2014, 06:37:59 PM
And as another poster mentioned, I really don't believe Brian's stock is rising. Like McCartney or Bob Dylan, he passed into living legend status some time ago. There's nowhere else for his stock to go. Sure, there are always going to be people who don't know his name, don't know the music, etc. And a faction of baby boomers who've been so brainwashed against the Beach Boys that there's no hope for them at this stage of their lives, but anyone with any musical sense or clout reveres Brian and that's all that matters.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: NickandthePassions on October 13, 2014, 09:07:22 PM
This is my all-time favorite forum. Just in this one thread, members have discussed Brian Wilson (my all-time favorite composer), some of my favorite alcoholic beverages, and made numerous references to my all-time favorite movie, Dr. Stranglelove.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: rogerlancelot on October 13, 2014, 09:15:11 PM
Let's make everybody happy and re-title this thread "Bruce's Shorts Continue To Rise".

 ;D


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Mooger Fooger on October 13, 2014, 10:10:24 PM
I have a better idea, let us post about how we absolutely HATE everyone on here. Not normal hate, mind you, I mean the complete and utter hate. At the same time we should explain how the joyus music of BBs and co drives us to such extremes. You know great music leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Then we can discuss Bruce's shorts. It all ties in superbly.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: stack-o-tracks on October 14, 2014, 12:58:29 AM
I frequently regret trading my Brian Wilson stock for an equal number of shares of Beach Boys Family & Friends stock back in the 90s. I would have had enough money to pay for a much needed brain transplant and send my children to college.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: Cam Mott on October 14, 2014, 10:13:01 AM
I regret tying all my stock up in Kokomo Hair Club for Men.


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: The Shift on October 14, 2014, 10:32:25 AM
I've got stock in gravy granules… or is it the other way round?


Title: Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise
Post by: job on October 28, 2014, 04:24:28 PM
Thay say that Job is back

I know he's had his ups and downs