Brian's Stock Continues To Rise

[Mendota Heights]

Brian's back in a sense he was not when he was "officially back" - in 70's. It is very unlikely he will hit rock bottom again, like he did in the 80's. He seems stable, focused, healthy, determined and he is surrounded by great musicians and by great fans.

The Beach Boys have been unjustly "hidden" from the public for decades, now the cultural elite (parts of it) has decided to place Brian in the limelight, something we are all happy about (no matter what SS camp we adhere to). I am glad all these BBC artists paid homage to Brian/Asher/Carl/Mike/Dennis/Al. All these five guys made Brian's composition the masterpiece it is and it thrills me my friends on Facebook share this song and make it go viral. I am glad Brian's new album is coming out soon and that it features so many fine young contemporary musicians. Brian is certainly more hip today than he has been since the 60's. It is good for Brian. It is good for Carl. It is good for Dennis. It is good for Mike. It is good for Al. It is good for Dave.

And it is good for the legacy that is... the Beach Boys.

  

[Mikie]

I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

• other members
  
• how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on topic. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

With that mentality, I think YOU should resign. Seriously. This ain't like your other boards. Free speech is exercised here, not communism. If the moderators heeded your advise, every other post would be deleted and we don't need that. Let's keep it fun and light. On the other hand, there isn't an anarchy here either. The moderators (all three of them) are doing just fine, thanks.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I do not "battle" on this board...

Yes, you do. But I'll get to that in a minute. Thank you for your thoughtful and honest response to my earlier post. And, as your reward, you are subjected to one of my boring stories!

I used to coach Little League baseball, and we had on our coaching staff an attorney who later became a judge. I loved talking with this coach/attorney, not just because of his interesting courtroom stories, but for the occasional free legal advice! Anyway, I remember a particular story about a divorce case he was trying, complete with complicated twists and turns...and juicy details. After the story was told, I remember saying to this attorney, "It just goes to show you that there were two sides to that story." The attorney responded, "There are two sides to EVERY story." 

Never has that cliche been truer than with Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys. I certainly believe that, and I know you do, too. My problem with you is that your posts don't reflect that attitude. As a matter of fact, not only are you reacting inappropriately to posters who you don't agree with, but you seem to be on some campaign or crusade in setting the record straight - according to guitarfool2002. You have recently come out with pronouncements - and I'm paraphrasing - like "I'm not going to allow people to come on this board and say this and that..." and "I don't like how history can be changed by posters saying things and I'm going to fight back..." and "this board doesn't need things like that posted here..." and "do you know who you're talking to; they don't need to be subjected to that..." With all due respect guitarfool2002, and I mean that, I respect your knowledge and your writing, Brian Wilson's legacy is doing just fine; his stock his rising! Honored guests are fully aware what they are getting into when they post here; they don't need your protection. And, this board is doing just fine in handling posters who post less than popular opinions; I didn't sense a need for someone to censure, to shout down, or to fight back.

I'm sure you have your reasons for your attitude, your mission, or your looking out for the betterment of the board. Hey, everybody has an agenda of some type; I get that. And, I'm sure you have your supporters and cheerleaders (I realize that's a bad word to use around here ), and I fully expect them to come out and support you on this issue. And, I applaud you for your passion. I just think you're taking it too far, and in taking it that far, you are not being open to the other point of view, to the other opinions; you are disrespecting people, and with the "job issue", it appears to me that you are trying to satisfy YOUR agenda. I don't want to speak for Ray, and I stand to be corrected, but I got the feeling that Ray could handle himself just fine, didn't need anyone to come to his rescue. Like I said in my previous post, Ray's a bigger man who "gets it", and I would be surprised if he called for job's banning. Oh, I know guitarfool2002, it's not necessary for an Honored Guest to come to you before you act. I just think you're taking your crusade too far.

As far as OldSurferDude is concerned, that's a really simple issue. I will give you a completely honest answer. When I first came on this board, it didn't take me long to realize what OSD's agenda was. 99% of his posts were made for the explicit purpose of degrading Mike Love. I used to read all of them, then I used to read most of them, then I used to read some of them, then I stopped reading them completely. I know you won't believe this, but it wasn't only because of the content of OSD's posts - some of them had merit - it was the repetitive nature of the posts that drove me away from them. I literally mastered the art of scrolling right past them. Actually, because of my ignoring OSD's posts, it was a long time before I realized he was even banned. Only recently was I reading a thread where it was mentioned that OSD was banned because of something inappropriate that he said to another poster. I still have no idea what he said.

Should have OSD been banned. Again, I don't know what he said or did, but, regardless of what I posted here, I don't have strong feelings about banning. I don't follow it that closely. So, I guess I'll say this, and this relates to what you and I are debating, which is why (I think) you brought OSD up. I think that grounds for banning should primarily be relegated to posts/posters that cross the line of race, sex, religion, etc. Let's make that clear. That is not acceptable anywhere. And, if OSD crossed that line, then, yes, he should receive a ban (the length of ban is another issue). However, do I think that OSD should've been banned for making repetitive and demeaning posts about a Beach Boy? No, I don't. Hey, OSD was annoying, and like I said, I didn't agree with him and I eventually stopped reading him. But, I'll defend his right to come on the Smiley Smile Message Board and post whatever he wants as long as it's appropriate. I certainly wouldn't tell him what he should or shouldn't post and then fight him and use profanity when I didn't agree with him.

[ontor pertawst]

Brian's back in a sense he was not when he was "officially back" - in 70's. It is very unlikely he will hit rock bottom again, like he did in the 80's. He seems stable, focused, healthy, determined and he is surrounded by great musicians and by great fans.

It's great that it's not just a fragile victory lap either, not a "wow, you're still alive! Take a bow just for not being dead!" He's been working hard for years and putting out good material. For all the talk of Brian not being able to handle a touring schedule, he didn't miss any of C50 when the pressure was on and the schedule was exhausting. He didn't whine endlessly or cheapen the work they did together when it fell apart and just got back to work in the studio... with another daunting round of appearances most likely lurking around the corner and filling up next year.

Invest in Wilson stock now!
 

[Mendota Heights]

I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

• other members
  
• how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on topic. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

With that mentality, I think YOU should resign. Seriously. This ain't like your other boards. Free speech is exercised here, not communism. If the moderators heeded your advise, every other post would be deleted and we don't need that. Let's keep it fun and light. On the other hand, there isn't an anarchy here either. The moderators (all three of them) are doing just fine, thanks.

Moving discussions about SS members to a designated thread is not is a socioeconomic system structured upon common ownership of the means of production and characterized by the absence of social classes, money and the state; as well as a social, political and economic ideology and movement that aims to establish this social order.

[Mikie]

Well, you got a point there, Froggie.  I never considered that aspect.

[Nicko1234]

Well, you got a point there, Froggie.  I never considered that aspect.

 

[guitarfool2002]

I just explained it but I'll clarify it even further with additions:

There is no way to move individual posts out of threads and into another existing thread or even a new topic. That is a feature which the board host and the design of the board does not have, even though people have been asking for it. I know this because I researched it, inquired about it, and even tried to find other ways to do it. This was in response to a call to do this a few months ago.

But as of now, with the design of these forums, it is just not possible. Period. It can't be done.

This board has never been moderated that way where posts are deleted or tagged as off-topic as a regular practice, and I do not think a majority who post here would want that. In my own opinion, it opens up a situation where one person's idea of off-topic would conflict with another person's opinion, and you'd have three people deciding on their own what was or was not on-topic, and I would not support that at all. So I don't see it happening anytime soon, if at all.

I posted a "Suggestion Box" thread recently for anyone to offer comments, criticisms, suggestions, etc for the board, along with the "Ask The Moderators" sub-forum which is at the top of the homepage. At least in the suggestion box thread, I don't recall anything being said about this kind of on-topic/off-topic constant moderation style, so I'm kind of surprised to see it appear here so strongly as to call for moderators to step down unless we start deleting posts.

My own take, non-moderator wise, that felt like a bit of a cheap shot considering the "Suggestion Box" and other areas to make such suggestions have been open and have seen nothing there making as strong of a case to change to this style...at least nothing to suggest it was enough of an issue to put out a direct ultimatum with the suggestion to do this or resign.

Not gonna do it. 

[bgas]

I just explained it but I'll clarify it even further with additions:

There is no way to move individual posts out of threads and into another existing thread or even a new topic. That is a feature which the board host and the design of the board does not have, even though people have been asking for it. I know this because I researched it, inquired about it, and even tried to find other ways to do it. This was in response to a call to do this a few months ago.

But as of now, with the design of these forums, it is just not possible. Period. It can't be done.

This board has never been moderated that way where posts are deleted or tagged as off-topic as a regular practice, and I do not think a majority who post here would want that. In my own opinion, it opens up a situation where one person's idea of off-topic would conflict with another person's opinion, and you'd have three people deciding on their own what was or was not on-topic, and I would not support that at all. So I don't see it happening anytime soon, if at all.

I posted a "Suggestion Box" thread recently for anyone to offer comments, criticisms, suggestions, etc for the board, along with the "Ask The Moderators" sub-forum which is at the top of the homepage. At least in the suggestion box thread, I don't recall anything being said about this kind of on-topic/off-topic constant moderation style, so I'm kind of surprised to see it appear here so strongly as to call for moderators to step down unless we start deleting posts.

My own take, non-moderator wise, that felt like a bit of a cheap shot considering the "Suggestion Box" and other areas to make such suggestions have been open and have seen nothing there making as strong of a case to change to this style...at least nothing to suggest it was enough of an issue to put out a direct ultimatum with the suggestion to do this or resign.

Not gonna do it. 

 What you're missing:  posting suggestions in a suggestion box thread would be posting ON Topic. This is anathema  to so many here

[Ray Lawlor]

Suggest the thread be locked and a veil drawn. Can't even recall the original topic.

I might agree, but people have some stuff to get off their chest, I think we should let them do it. Let's air all this out and get it in the open, good or bad. The original thread topic had ample opportunity to be "saved" but the choices were made otherwise, so let's use this to clear the air.

So here is what I have to say about this entire matter. First and foremost; I am not an "honored guest" ; this entire matter was between one SS poster and another SS poster; plain and simple.I do not , and have not ever, taken a "do you know who I am" type of posture here, or anywhere else,  let's start there.  The poster  , asked me a question in a very arrogant and confrontational manner ; any attempt to say that was not the intent or "I just asked a question " is pure spin and bullsh-t. When he did , I got up in his grill and responded accordingly; I can read the English language; and I understand intent  . He was not interested in any dialogue , but was just looking for a fight; for what reason or agenda I don't know.  For example ;when I asked him how many C50 shows he had been to he never replied, and that was the end of it...what was that ; pageone or two on this thread ?   If he was really interested in why I said the last two C50 shows were the best since Carnagie 71 , we could have had a dialogue about it; if he had phrased his question " why do you think that " , for example ; I would not have taken it the way I did . And for the record, I went on AGD's Bellagio site , and went through all the Beach Boy's concerts I had attended from 1966 to Nov, 1993 ; the last one being in the Paramount in Madison Square Garden...total 103; it would have been 104 , but the Singer Bowl on the absurd Maharishi tour was cancelled so the 50 or so people who were there got screwed. Then the 25 or so C50 shows; this I believe makes me fu-k--ng well qualified to make a judgement call like that. But we did not have that conversation. The nonsense about "get over yourself" , "That honoured guest and his minions", "prickish response"( Job has no clue what a prickish response is from me would be like) and even some garbage about "honoured guests give us commoners who worship them and spend our money on them "......I don't even know what the hell he was talking about ; and if you are defending this diatribe as normal behavior than you don't have the sense that God gave geese. But I say the smart play here is lets move on.

What is ironic is that I only post things where I feel I have solid knowledge of , or if I want to clarify something that is erroneous.  For example ; has anyone on this board seen me ever make a comment on a M & B show ? The answer is no ; the reason being I am not qualified to make a judgement on them having never seen them live. I don't draw solid opinions on concerts from youtube video's or phantom autotune from 8 second IPhone clips; not my M.O. I can make a statement about John Cowsill ( best BB's drummer since Dennis Wilson) and Scott Totten (knows the music; fine musician) and Stamos ( An American Family, say no more) ..because I saw them ; live; with my eyes and ears. That stuff I can , and will opine on.

I will not comment in any detail about family issues ; i.e. the stuff about Melinda Wilson and Jacquie Love's good or bad relationship and the demise of C50;( i don't know the status of their relationship currently; and even if I did know I wouldnt admit it) I will just reiterate that in my opinion this is a red herring , and that the reason it's finished is money and control.  Capitalism 101.  But I can tell you this. The night before the first C50 concert in Tuscon, while the BB's were rehearsing, I bought a couple of bottles of tequila , and Melinda Wilson, Jacquie Love, MaryAnn Jardine, Carrie Marks, Jean Sievers and I , sat around for a few hours drinking margarita's on Brian's bus. One of the most fun nights ever; there were great, raunchy, hilareous stories I never heard before about Brian, Dennis, Carl , Mike , Al and David ; none for public consumption . The ladies were all very funny , and they all got along great in my opinion. I can opine on this because I was there.

[Mikie]

So here is what I have to say about this entire matter. First and foremost; I am not an "honored guest"

Well, to many of us you are, Ray. It's out of respect for the information and opinions you contribute to the board. To me (and others) you should be regarded as an honored guest as much as the book authors, engineers, band members, or other "insiders" here. Seems to me you bring to the table as much as they do. If a poll was taken as to whether you qualify as an "Honored Guest, the "Yes" vote would win hands down, I'm sure.

[Mikie]

I don't even know what the hell he was talking about ; and if you are defending this diatribe as normal behavior than you don't have the sense that God gave geese. But I say the smart play here is lets move on.

"Sense that God gave geese". Is that the equivalent of "common sense"?    Guilty as charged, Ray. Based on the history of Job's posts on the board, just giving the guy the benefit of the doubt and a fair shake, that's all. But further clarification/justification for saying those things has not been forthcoming, so it doesn't put him in a very good light, does it?

[NHC]

Hey, How about them Cardinals?

Hey, how about them Giants?

That's more like it.

[guitarfool2002]

Hey, How about them Cardinals?

Hey, how about them Giants?

That's more like it.

The Eagles will win Sunday night, predicting a close game, something like 34-28.

Oh, you meant the other Giants! Them I don't care about...never mind. 

Someone zap this as off-topic, please. 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

• other members
  
• how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on topic. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

I've had a death in the family and was at a wake yesterday.  I was considering resigning, as quite frankly the negativity is driving me nuts, and i feel like I'm not appreciated around here.

I start my new job in a couple of weeks. ...im going to be more active until then, and I'll reevaluate my status then.

[Ray Lawlor]

I don't even know what the hell he was talking about ; and if you are defending this diatribe as normal behavior than you don't have the sense that God gave geese. But I say the smart play here is lets move on.

"Sense that God gave geese". Is that the equivalent of "common sense"?    Guilty as charged, Ray. Based on the history of Job's posts on the board, just giving the guy the benefit of the doubt and a fair shake, that's all. But further clarification/justification for saying those things has not been forthcoming, so it doesn't put him in a very good light, does it?

Mikie; the good news for me is that a new place just opened up right close to me...Das Biergarten.  All Geman beer on draft ; great Bavarian menu.  I am headed there tonight.  The definition of common sense !

[Mendota Heights]

I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

• other members
  
• how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on topic. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

I've had a death in the family and was at a wake yesterday.  I was considering resigning, as quite frankly the negativity is driving me nuts, and i feel like I'm not appreciated around here.

I start my new job in a couple of weeks. ...im going to be more active until then, and I'll reevaluate my status then.

I am sorry to hear that. And I don't want you to resign, just moderate the whole thing in a slightly different fashion.

No hard feelings.

[alf wiedersehen]

I start my new job in a couple of weeks. ...

So happy to hear you got a new job, Billy!

[guitarfool2002]

I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

• other members
  
• how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on topic. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

I've had a death in the family and was at a wake yesterday.  I was considering resigning, as quite frankly the negativity is driving me nuts, and i feel like I'm not appreciated around here.

I start my new job in a couple of weeks. ...im going to be more active until then, and I'll reevaluate my status then.

I am sorry to hear that. And I don't want you to resign, just moderate the whole thing in a slightly different fashion.

No hard feelings.

If you don't want a resignation, don't call for one in the first place. Simple as that.

And put suggestions where they belong, moving forward, and keep them free of sarcasm and calls to resign.

That's from me.

[NHC]

I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

• other members
  
• how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on topic. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

I've had a death in the family and was at a wake yesterday.  I was considering resigning, as quite frankly the negativity is driving me nuts, and i feel like I'm not appreciated around here.

I start my new job in a couple of weeks. ...im going to be more active until then, and I'll reevaluate my status then.

Sorry to hear that, Billy.  Hang in there on all fronts, OK?

[bgas]

I don't even know what the hell he was talking about ; and if you are defending this diatribe as normal behavior than you don't have the sense that God gave geese. But I say the smart play here is lets move on.

"Sense that God gave geese". Is that the equivalent of "common sense"?    Guilty as charged, Ray. Based on the history of Job's posts on the board, just giving the guy the benefit of the doubt and a fair shake, that's all. But further clarification/justification for saying those things has not been forthcoming, so it doesn't put him in a very good light, does it?

Mikie; the good news for me is that a new place just opened up right close to me...Das Biergarten.  All Geman beer on draft ; great Bavarian menu.  I am headed there tonight.  The definition of common sense !

Is this a really new place, or are your referring to The Biergarten at The Standard ?

[Mikie]

I don't even know what the hell he was talking about ; and if you are defending this diatribe as normal behavior than you don't have the sense that God gave geese. But I say the smart play here is lets move on.

"Sense that God gave geese". Is that the equivalent of "common sense"?    Guilty as charged, Ray. Based on the history of Job's posts on the board, just giving the guy the benefit of the doubt and a fair shake, that's all. But further clarification/justification for saying those things has not been forthcoming, so it doesn't put him in a very good light, does it?

Mikie; the good news for me is that a new place just opened up right close to me...Das Biergarten.  All Geman beer on draft ; great Bavarian menu.  I am headed there tonight.  The definition of common sense !

Sounds like a plan, Ray.  What better way to celebrate Octoberfest?  Careful, man; those strong German brewskis can knock ya on your keister!

[Ray Lawlor]

I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

• other members
  
• how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on topic. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

I've had a death in the family and was at a wake yesterday.  I was considering resigning, as quite frankly the negativity is driving me nuts, and i feel like I'm not appreciated around here.

I start my new job in a couple of weeks. ...im going to be more active until then, and I'll reevaluate my status then.

Hey Billy; sorry to hear about the death in your family.

Sometimes this place feels like Gettysburg , Day 3.  I think you guys are doing a fine job; Guitarfool goes to great lengths to explain his positions to all the factions; some agree ; some disagree ;I don't think its easy to do; I would not have the patience to do it.

Hang in there    

[Ray Lawlor]

I don't even know what the hell he was talking about ; and if you are defending this diatribe as normal behavior than you don't have the sense that God gave geese. But I say the smart play here is lets move on.

"Sense that God gave geese". Is that the equivalent of "common sense"?    Guilty as charged, Ray. Based on the history of Job's posts on the board, just giving the guy the benefit of the doubt and a fair shake, that's all. But further clarification/justification for saying those things has not been forthcoming, so it doesn't put him in a very good light, does it?

Mikie; the good news for me is that a new place just opened up right close to me...Das Biergarten.  All Geman beer on draft ; great Bavarian menu.  I am headed there tonight.  The definition of common sense !

Is this a really new place, or are your referring to The Biergarten at The Standard ?

New place.  East Atlantic Beach

[Ray Lawlor]

I don't even know what the hell he was talking about ; and if you are defending this diatribe as normal behavior than you don't have the sense that God gave geese. But I say the smart play here is lets move on.

"Sense that God gave geese". Is that the equivalent of "common sense"?    Guilty as charged, Ray. Based on the history of Job's posts on the board, just giving the guy the benefit of the doubt and a fair shake, that's all. But further clarification/justification for saying those things has not been forthcoming, so it doesn't put him in a very good light, does it?

Mikie; the good news for me is that a new place just opened up right close to me...Das Biergarten.  All Geman beer on draft ; great Bavarian menu.  I am headed there tonight.  The definition of common sense !

Sounds like a plan, Ray.  What better way to celebrate Octoberfest?  Careful, man; those strong German brewskis can knock ya on your keister!

Yes , they can....they have HB which I really like....