Brian's Stock Continues To Rise

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I think the Smiley Smile moderators are doing a lousy job and that they should resign so that sensible moderators can take over.

This thread is not about Brian anymore. It stopped being about Brian a long time ago, because the moderators don’t care if someone’s off topic or not. Other forums' moderators delete off topic posts for the simple reason that they are not a part of the topic that is being discussed. In this case the OP wanted to discuss Brian's rising stock (great choice). Now we are not able to do that since a whole bunch of people including moderators who should know better are derailing the discussion by posting posts about:

• other members
  
• how Smiley Smilers should or should not interact

Just like 98 % percent of threads here. Moderators please step up. Make it possible to keep discussions on topic. Delete off topic posts. From now and on.

Or resign.

I've had a death in the family and was at a wake yesterday.  I was considering resigning, as quite frankly the negativity is driving me nuts, and i feel like I'm not appreciated around here.

I start my new job in a couple of weeks. ...im going to be more active until then, and I'll reevaluate my status then.

I am sorry to hear that. And I don't want you to resign, just moderate the whole thing in a slightly different fashion.

No hard feelings.

look at my history here...I'm one of the least biased people here. How have i not been sensible? What different do you want from me?should  i ban people at the least offense on a whim? I'm legit asking...what different do you want? When things have gotten off topic in the past,  I'd get it right back on track. Again, i haven't been as active lately as i have enough going on off the board.  Is that why i should resign?

I wish this was through PM or something. ..i imagine a majority of the members here are tired of reading about the drama

[Cyncie]

Aww, it's all good. I hope things get better for you soon Billy, and I hope you stay on.

This place can get a bit crazy at times. There's a lot of snark and cynicism here for a fan board dedicated to the Beach Boys,  a group that was about as uncynical as it gets. It can be off putting when all you want to do is enjoy the 'boys and their work. People will second guess how the board's run. But, second guessing everyone is what peeps do here. We second guess the touring band, the Wilson/Love family dynamic,  Brian Wilson's artistic choices and even the classic recordings (because everyone can do a better version of SMiLE than Brian did!)

Don't let it get to you. Stay healthy and happy.

[guitarfool2002]

To Sheriff Stone: Thank you for the reply. I didn't want to veer out of the thread too much (and couldn't) but I'd like to reply.

My posts come from a pretty deep love and respect for the music of Brian Wilson, simple as that. I've said it many times before, but no music or art in general has gotten to me and influenced me as much as Brian's. No composer or arranger or producer has created work that has mattered as much to me personally as Brian Wilson. Wouldn't It Be Nice is the greatest song and studio performance I've ever heard, I won't even reveal some of the milestones where that song has coincided with various events in my personal life, or how listening to Smile has influenced me and inspired me to do certain things and make certain choices in life and career that have led to some great things. Is that overstating it? Probably. But that's my connection to the man and his music. Hearing that song hits me right in the gut, every time. It's that powerful for me to hear, simple as that.

I have never gotten a Christmas card from Brian Wilson, but the gifts through the music and inspiration have more than made up for not being on his card list.  

So I do get defensive, I am forceful, and I do express strong opinions when certain points come up. I don't like to see or read some of the negativity, I don't like to see things being said that may have been based on incorrect or even false information, and if I go overboard in stating those things, maybe that's who I am. I don't feel and don't post like Ive been charged with carrying anyone's banner, but I do feel like some efforts in setting the record straight are necessary. If I go overboard doing it, so be it. I've seen others here do the same things in issues from who played on recordings to dates of concerts and other points, I'm doing a similar thing.

It looks like you are often doing the same thing, taking shots various ways in favor of your opinions. So maybe we're both in the same situation? How have you reacted when various comments have been made over the past decades suggesting "Mike Love killed the Smile project", "the Beach Boys didn't play on most of their big hits", or even recently "Mike was the one who ended C50"? Did you accept those statements or did you challenge them? If you challenged them, does that mean you're 'defending' Mike or are you just reacting to something you felt was untrue? If you tried to argue against someone "new" coming onto the board and arguing that Mike killed the Smile project, are you shutting down that opinion, or are you making your points to clear up what you think is a false statement based on false assumptions? Or are you really trying to shut down that opinion because you find it absurd, period?

There isn't a separate standard for you than there is for me, so if I'm supposedly on a mission to defend something or someone and shut down opinions I don't agree with, you've been doing the same thing regarding comments about Brian or Mike. Let's not suggest we're not taking the same route.

There are very valid reasons to argue a point. There are also very valid reasons not to argue a point. If you don't accept that the latter is true, it opens up a scenario where a 3rd grader could make as valid a case in arguing that 2+2=5 as their teacher had just shown that 2+2=4 and their class had just accepted that 2+2=4. If that's the kind of ambiguity that should be acceptable, knowledge and learning is doomed because the right answers are no more valid than the wrong. You'd need to spend as much time convincing the class that 2+2 does not equal 5 as you would going on the accepted knowledge that 2+2 equals 4, and always will. How constructive would it be to entertain a notion you know to be false from it's very core?

I don't have a mission, I'm not protecting anyone or carrying any flags for anyone, but I do like to see opinions which are based on more fact than speculation, and in some cases the facts are clearly laid out enough to make that judgement before pushing an argument or an agenda.

I'm also not a fan of the negativity that has met a lot of Brian Wilson's activities since 2012, I really don't understand where it comes from or what is driving it. But I don't like to see the same kinds of comments greet the announcements anymore than I'm sure you enjoy seeing "Mike killed Smile" whenever a Smile discussion happens, here or on other outlets like YouTube.

I'd rather come to this board to celebrate the music, share, and enjoy, even "accentuate the positive" with other fans...ultimate goal, to leave with a smile and log off feeling good. I much prefer that.    When that wasn't the case, especially in the last two days, it felt like something was seriously broken.

[job]

Now he'll never get those unsurpassed masters CDs

I wasn't looking for the UM CD's.  Love your name tho!

[bgas]

Thay say that Job is back

[Fire Wind]

Dotted around the stage - not the audience. There were other, more capable cameras being wielded around on stage too, if memory serves. Assume the audio would have been professionally recorded also, if they were going to all that effort with the visuals.

Yeah, I recall there were a couple of guys on stage with proper cameras, looking like they were getting some great footage at times.  Weren't they from, or linked to, that company that tried to crowd-fund a DVD after C50 ended?  Whatever happened to that?  That must have been decent, professional footage.  If they were at all shows, they must have a ton of it.

[ontor pertawst]

Someone tell me where the footage is and then deny all knowledge of my subsequent activities. Thanks.

[runnersdialzero]

Yep! The wife and managers seem to know what they're doing, huh? At least when it comes to Brian's legacy and solo career.......

Nope.

[Mikie]

Yep! The wife and managers seem to know what they're doing, huh? At least when it comes to Brian's legacy and solo career.......

Nope.

Would you care to expound on your "Nope" answer and give us your reasons why you think the wife/managers don't know what they're doing?

[mikeddonn]

Since around the release of Imagination (and even guest vocal spots beforehand) Brian has been in demand, more so than his old band.

The prestigious shows, the documentaries, the record deals, the tribute shows and now more recently being on McCartney's tribute album.  Then there's also being at the George Harrison Tribute show, the Hollywood film, the new album in the pipeline and now having his song chosen as a charity single featuring many many current and contemporary artists. 

It's wonderful seeing Brian's solo career continue to flourish in a way few of us could have imagined 20 years ago.  The guy is a legend and is outdoing his old band at every turn and has been for a while.  I imagine Mr Brian Douglas Wilson will have a sense of satisfaction when he thinks about it.  And Melinda and the rest of 'team' Wilson will also have wry smiles considering the criticism they've taken over the years regarding career decisions.  I'd say they've got it all spot on and Brian's legacy is safe and secure.  Thank you Brian!

I agree with all of that, except for your incessant need to insult the Beach Boys. 

Sorry, but whereas this "incessant need" that you see? I see him mentioning obvious things. Brian has outdone what "The Beach Boys" have done since 1998. Recording-wise he surely has, as the group "The Beach Boys" hasn't recorded anything without him in this time period. Also, he did outdo them in the live show department with his Pet Sounds and SMiLE live tours, amongst others. And wouldn't you know it, after he raised the bar, the Mike and Bruce show also upped their game, putting on some of their most varied shows. And one would have to imagine that Mike dug deeper and did deeper material because of what Brian was doing. Sure seems like it to me, as he showed little to no interest in doing much in the way of deep cuts pre-2004 (or at the very least, not many...maybe an "All This Is That" here, or maybe a "Sail On, Sailor" there). So yeah, Brian outdid "The Beach Boys".

Is he now? Well touring-wise, there's not much competition. Mike's out there, he ain't for the most part. On the other hand, BRIAN WILSON is out there with the new "God Only Knows" BBC thing, whereas maybe it could've been a BEACH BOYS thing if Mike hadn't decided to end what Brian and Al wanted to continue. And recording-wise, well there's no competition. Even if Brian's album is bad, at least he has the guts to release it. Mike on the other hand, has had a solid, workmanlike album done since when, the BWPS era, which he's apparently afraid to release. So yeah. I want Mike to prove me wrong and make some moves. But as of now, he's just being risk-averse old Mike. Which yes, keeps things on an even keel, but at the same time makes for less highs.

Thank you Jim! .

The above post from Ron is an example of how this thread has turned out.  He says I have an incessant need to insult the Beach Boys.  Now how could someone read my original post and come to that conclusion?  I have seen Mike and Bruce everytime they have played here in Scotland, and hopefully they'll be back!

As for Job.  Ray dealt with what he perceived to be sarcastic comments (which certainly came across as such) in his own way, without needing help.  He's big enough to handle it himself thankfully and I'm sure will, hopefully, continue to post here.  That should have been the end of it and everyone should have moved on.  We can all make up our own minds about those who feel the need to insult others.

I also want to thank those who tried at various times to get the thread back on task!

Now, it looks like Brian is heading back to the top of the charts!  Isn't that a lovely thing?!

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Keeping things on track...

  It is an exciting time to be a fan of Brian and his music.  This is the most 'in' Brian has been since about 1995. One of my friend's daughters just turned 18, and just graduated from high school. Her friends that are still there (the juniors turned seniors) often name drop Brian Wilson, and so do a lot of their other friends, but some of those kids just 'do it to be cool'. And, a lot of them are the type of girl you see smoking in the bathroom, drinking energy drinks, steal boyfriends from each other, think just because they smoke weed and like reggae that makes them 'rasta'...walk around the neighborhood barefoot...anyway, those kids name drop Brian because he's 'cool'. Maybe this might lead some of them to actually discover (and like) his music.

[Mikie]

As for Job.  Ray dealt with what he perceived to be sarcastic comments (which certainly came across as such) in his own way, without needing help.  He's big enough to handle it himself thankfully and I'm sure will, hopefully, continue to post here. 

We knew that way back on the first thread. But we dealt with it ourselves anyway (with a little help from the Mod) to show a little respect and support. Ray's a big boy and can handle himself, but some people are not; they're a lot more sensitive and will just leave instead of waiting around to see how its dealt with.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

In any case, I'd like us to move on from what happened, and get back on track. I'm sorry I wasn't around to take care of things, but what's done is done.

Love and Mercy everybody.

[Sheriff John Stone]

To Sheriff Stone: Thank you for the reply. I didn't want to veer out of the thread too much (and couldn't) but I'd like to reply.

My posts come from a pretty deep love and respect for the music of Brian Wilson, simple as that. I've said it many times before, but no music or art in general has gotten to me and influenced me as much as Brian's. No composer or arranger or producer has created work that has mattered as much to me personally as Brian Wilson. Wouldn't It Be Nice is the greatest song and studio performance I've ever heard, I won't even reveal some of the milestones where that song has coincided with various events in my personal life, or how listening to Smile has influenced me and inspired me to do certain things and make certain choices in life and career that have led to some great things. Is that overstating it? Probably. But that's my connection to the man and his music. Hearing that song hits me right in the gut, every time. It's that powerful for me to hear, simple as that.

I have never gotten a Christmas card from Brian Wilson, but the gifts through the music and inspiration have more than made up for not being on his card list.  

So I do get defensive, I am forceful, and I do express strong opinions when certain points come up. I don't like to see or read some of the negativity, I don't like to see things being said that may have been based on incorrect or even false information, and if I go overboard in stating those things, maybe that's who I am. I don't feel and don't post like Ive been charged with carrying anyone's banner, but I do feel like some efforts in setting the record straight are necessary. If I go overboard doing it, so be it. I've seen others here do the same things in issues from who played on recordings to dates of concerts and other points, I'm doing a similar thing.

It looks like you are often doing the same thing, taking shots various ways in favor of your opinions. So maybe we're both in the same situation? How have you reacted when various comments have been made over the past decades suggesting "Mike Love killed the Smile project", "the Beach Boys didn't play on most of their big hits", or even recently "Mike was the one who ended C50"? Did you accept those statements or did you challenge them? If you challenged them, does that mean you're 'defending' Mike or are you just reacting to something you felt was untrue? If you tried to argue against someone "new" coming onto the board and arguing that Mike killed the Smile project, are you shutting down that opinion, or are you making your points to clear up what you think is a false statement based on false assumptions? Or are you really trying to shut down that opinion because you find it absurd, period?

There isn't a separate standard for you than there is for me, so if I'm supposedly on a mission to defend something or someone and shut down opinions I don't agree with, you've been doing the same thing regarding comments about Brian or Mike. Let's not suggest we're not taking the same route.

There are very valid reasons to argue a point. There are also very valid reasons not to argue a point. If you don't accept that the latter is true, it opens up a scenario where a 3rd grader could make as valid a case in arguing that 2+2=5 as their teacher had just shown that 2+2=4 and their class had just accepted that 2+2=4. If that's the kind of ambiguity that should be acceptable, knowledge and learning is doomed because the right answers are no more valid than the wrong. You'd need to spend as much time convincing the class that 2+2 does not equal 5 as you would going on the accepted knowledge that 2+2 equals 4, and always will. How constructive would it be to entertain a notion you know to be false from it's very core?

I don't have a mission, I'm not protecting anyone or carrying any flags for anyone, but I do like to see opinions which are based on more fact than speculation, and in some cases the facts are clearly laid out enough to make that judgement before pushing an argument or an agenda.

I'm also not a fan of the negativity that has met a lot of Brian Wilson's activities since 2012, I really don't understand where it comes from or what is driving it. But I don't like to see the same kinds of comments greet the announcements anymore than I'm sure you enjoy seeing "Mike killed Smile" whenever a Smile discussion happens, here or on other outlets like YouTube.

I'd rather come to this board to celebrate the music, share, and enjoy, even "accentuate the positive" with other fans...ultimate goal, to leave with a smile and log off feeling good. I much prefer that.    When that wasn't the case, especially in the last two days, it felt like something was seriously broken.

Another excellent and fair post, and you know I have to respond...

I am sincere when I tell you that I appreciate your passion for the music AND the composer. While I can't really measure your degree of passion vs. mine or anybody else's, I can easily see by your writing that it is very strong. Extremely strong. I CAN relate to you in that area. The area where I think - no, I know - we are different is in our feelings (presently) about the composer(s). There was a time when I felt equally passionate about the music AND the people who composed it. Sadly, I guess it's sadly, I no longer feel quite the same way; the gap has widened. After 42 years of reading about it, writing about it, talking about it, and living through it, my feelings about Brian, Mike, Dennis, Carl, and Bruce have changed. I'm not going to get into it here. Let's just say that I don't feel the need to advocate for them like I used to. Decades and decades of The Beach Boys' Soap Opera can do that to a person! Oh, there are still times when I get riled up pretty good, I mean, there has to be several reasons why I/we spend entirely too much time on this board. So, I do understand why you feel the way you do regarding the artist. I'll just say that sometimes I wish it was 1974 and I was a newbie again and I hadn't read anything!

I do want to clarify one thing before I sign off. Now, don't fall off your chair when I say this, but I am NOT pro-Mike Love. I mean, I appreciate his talents and I thank him for years of musical pleasure, but I don't even like the guy. I absolutely do feel, however, that there is a pronounced pro-Brian/anti-Mike Love bias on this board. So, when there is a debate going on, and I don't think that Mike Love is getting a fair shake or enough representation, I'll jump in. No doubt about that. I don't want to appear hypocritical (you know I'm on that kick lately) and I don't want to contradict what I just wrote above, but it's not so much that I'm defending or advocating for Mike Love, the artist or the individual. It's just that I like to see a fair debate. It's not trolling; I believe and feel strongly about every word I write. I'm just trying to let the other side, maybe the unpopular side, be heard, not scared off.

[Mikie]

In any case, I'd like us to move on from what happened, and get back on track. I'm sorry I wasn't around to take care of things, but what's done is done.

Love and Mercy everybody.

Yeah, but......

[mikeddonn]

In any case, I'd like us to move on from what happened, and get back on track. I'm sorry I wasn't around to take care of things, but what's done is done.

Love and Mercy everybody.

Billy, sorry for your loss and good to have you back!  Good luck with the new job too!

On topic, I can't believe how active all of The Beach Boys (and a lot of their peers still are).  I hope I have the energy when I'm my 70s!  

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I have to comment on this...

I mean, I appreciate his talents and I thank him for years of musical pleasure, but I don't even like the guy. I absolutely do feel, however, that there is a pronounced pro-Brian/anti-Mike Love bias on this board.

Other people have said just the opposite, that the board is anti-Brian/pro-Mike. I felt that was wrong then, and this is wrong now. I have noticed that those are on the extreme on either side are more vocal than those who are not picking sides, or are more moderate/flexible. As for me, well, it's about the music. I've never met Brian or Mike (or Al, Dave, Carl, Dennis, Ricky, Blondie, whatever). Everyone I've ever interacted with affiliated with either one have all been without exception pleasant and cool to talk to. So, to be perfectly blunt, I'm not going to choose sides because, quite frankly, in the end I just care about the music.

Rant over.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

In any case, I'd like us to move on from what happened, and get back on track. I'm sorry I wasn't around to take care of things, but what's done is done.

Love and Mercy everybody.

Billy, sorry for your loss and good to have you back!  Good luck with the new job too!

On topic, I can't believe how active all of The Beach Boys (and a lot of their peers still are).  I hope I have the energy when I'm my 70s! 

Thanks dude...appreciate that.

Definitely second that notion...I'm 36 and the schedule of these guys would wear me out quick (but I certainly wouldn't be complaining!)

[The Shift]

So a night on the town and back to what appears to be things getting back on track.

Billy, really sorry for you loss. I know things haven't gone as you might have wanted them for a while but you're one resilient guy and it's good to have you back with us and I wish you all the very best with the new position of employment. I nearly said "job"… good to see an apparent resolution there too anyways!

Ray, Mikie, I tried four different ales tonight but would rather have had a night drinking Sierra Nevada beers in South Lake … maybe next year.

[mikeddonn]

The Germans will be crying into their beers after the football (soccer) result v Poland!

[SMiLE Brian]

I am going reillerate the billy to replace Bruce movement!

[Wirestone]

I think the sketchy version of it all is this. Throughout much of the '90s, the boards were very pro-Brian. In the early oughts, there was a pronounced shift to looking at the band as a whole, and recognizing everyone's contributions. The early astonishment of seeing BW out and about and recording was also replaced with familiarity, and we all know what that breeds. The simplest way to recognize this shift is to compare the boxed sets -- Good Vibes is all about BW as auteur, while Made in California makes an honest (though sometimes misplaced) effort to showcase everyone's work.

As the 2000s passed, some people migrated to Brian's camp -- not because they thought he was god, but because they preferred his work, made connections with the band, preferred his shows -- and some folks moved toward what Mike was doing (which improved dramatically over the same timespan). You also had a subset of folks who found the older recordings the only real points of interest.

All the sides came together for the C50 and Smile box, because everyone united for that. And there was harmony and peace and love. And then it broke apart, and what might have been only preferences before hardened into factions. What had been once restive fiefdoms, and then a unified country, descended into all-out civil war (Ray's mention of Gettysburg was most apt).

Given the amount of flak Mike received for the end of the tour, there was a natural, vociferous defense of his stance. And in the last few months, as Brian has seen his profile raise again with the new album, etc., a lot of his fans are speaking more loudly and demanding that the kind of statements that were once accepted or ignored (wifeandmanagers, the usual insinuations that BW is someone else's puppet) be backed up.

Mike was maligned, probably unfairly, for decades. His defenders are correct on that score, and have the right to say so. And Brian has been subject, for nearly 20 years, to baseless speculation about the choices he's made in his personal life and career. His defenders (of whom I'm obviously one) have the right to point that out. I wish I could see it getting better, but the last couple of years have been rough.

[Nicko1234]

look at my history here...I'm one of the least biased people here. How have i not been sensible? What different do you want from me?should  i ban people at the least offense on a whim? I'm legit asking...what different do you want? When things have gotten off topic in the past,  I'd get it right back on track. Again, i haven't been as active lately as i have enough going on off the board.  Is that why i should resign?

I wish this was through PM or something. ..i imagine a majority of the members here are tired of reading about the drama

You definitely shouldn`t resign Billy. You have done a great job for a long time in presiding over the madness here and have done it with out taking sides or showing bias towards or against any posters.

[SMiLE Brian]

Billy C. for president!

[Mikie]

Ray, Mikie, I tried four different ales tonight but would rather have had a night drinking Sierra Nevada beers in South Lake … maybe next year.

There ya go. Now you're talkin'!