You've Lost 'You've Lost That Loving Feelin's's Loving Feelin'

[hypehat]

Yeah, heaven forbid someone should put reverb on a Spector cover.

Dude called Brian Wilson didn't (well, at least not that much) back in fall 1976. My 1983 cassette copy was taken from a safety master, and sure it's hissy, but it sounds... better.

Ah, I was wondering about where the mix came from! Obviously it's a bit different if there was something approximating a finished mix. Still no reason to say Mark & Alan are bad at their jobs and should be replaced by 'purists' like some people here. It's some reverb on a vocal.

[DonnyL]

Whoa, didn't think I'd find many Misfits fans around these parts. It's interesting, though, in that the '85 mixes were Glenn's work where as the originals were not (while probably having his input), which is kind of the opposite situation.

There are a couple cool things I like about his mix/additions (particularly the harmony vocal on "Static Age"), but overall, yeesh. I really don't care for them, the super-reverbed mixes are very ill-fitting for most of those songs. I think he was just into that sort of production and mixing style at the time. Sounds great on November-Coming-Fire, but here? I can't get into it.

I actually have a soft spot for Legacy of Brutality because I had that cassette in high school! Static Age (as an album) now sounds "90s" to me! ha

[Wirestone]

Yeah, heaven forbid someone should put reverb on a Spector cover.

Dude called Brian Wilson didn't (well, at least not that much) back in fall 1976. My 1983 cassette copy was taken from a safety master, and sure it's hissy, but it sounds... better.

Ah, I was wondering about where the mix came from! Obviously it's a bit different if there was something approximating a finished mix. Still no reason to say Mark & Alan are bad at their jobs and should be replaced by 'purists' like some people here. It's some reverb on a vocal.

One might point out that Brian's mixes for 15BO were pretty slapdash, and that by the time of Love You, his mixes were rejected in favor of a revamp by Carl.

[grillo]

Whoa, didn't think I'd find many Misfits fans around these parts. It's interesting, though, in that the '85 mixes were Glenn's work where as the originals were not (while probably having his input), which is kind of the opposite situation.

There are a couple cool things I like about his mix/additions (particularly the harmony vocal on "Static Age"), but overall, yeesh. I really don't care for them, the super-reverbed mixes are very ill-fitting for most of those songs. I think he was just into that sort of production and mixing style at the time. Sounds great on November-Coming-Fire, but here? I can't get into it.

The Misfits were a natural progression from the BB for my pre-teen to Teen self (in the 80's). Very catchy mid-tempo pop-songs with monster-movie lyrics?! Perfect.


I actually have a soft spot for Legacy of Brutality because I had that cassette in high school! Static Age (as an album) now sounds "90s" to me! ha

[Andrew G. Doe]

How odd. I appear to have stumbled into a Misfits forum, and I don't know the first thing about them. Or care.  

[Mikie]

Wadn't the Misfits a movie with Marilyn Monroe and Clark Gable? 

[HeyJude]

How odd. I appear to have stumbled into a Misfits forum, and I don't know the first thing about them. Or care.  

I don't know or care about the Misfits, but at least one of the posters above referenced it back to being a progression from their BB fandom. On topic enough for me. 

[Jonathan Blum]

It is my hope that one day a "purist" is appointed to handle the Beach Boys catalogue and future reissues -- someone who will make it a point to present the music in the most faithful way possible with no interference or their own personal artistic liberties, someone who understands that they should be in the backseat, playing as minimal a role as possible, when presenting historical recordings that they had nothing to do with originally. You'd think that would be a given.

The problem with being a "purist" and trying to stick with the original historical recording decisions, is that the biggest of those historical recording decisions was not to ever release the song.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[hypehat]

 

[runnersdialzero]

I actually have a soft spot for Legacy of Brutality because I had that cassette in high school! Static Age (as an album) now sounds "90s" to me! ha

Heh, thought you might given you're a few years older than me, but wasn't sure. I heard both right around the same time and the Legacy mixes were cool as far as a different and interesting listen, but I do prefer the originals (even if, in a sense, many of them are kind of not the originals).

How odd. I appear to have stumbled into a Misfits forum, and I don't know the first thing about them. Or care.  

Andrew, my man, I don't get your occasional "YOU MUST ONLY SPEAK OF THE BEACH BOYS IN THIS FORUM." Yes, folks should try to stay on topic, but Donny brought up how drastically different mixes can be over the course of just a few years, referred to a different band and it got a whopping two responses total before you came in. Like everyday life, conversations will become derailed and, erm, re-railed again. There have been instances where it got out of hand here, but a couple posts referring to a similar incident (i.e. being somewhat relevant) are pretty harmless, I feel. Above all else, it's awright, everyone will live.

P.S. Maybe you should care. ^_^

Yeah, heaven forbid someone should put reverb on a Spector cover.

Dude called Brian Wilson didn't (well, at least not that much) back in fall 1976. My 1983 cassette copy was taken from a safety master, and sure it's hissy, but it sounds... better.

I see both sides of ths argument and lean one way or the other on a song-by-song basis, but I'm curious, was the version you have a final mix? Or the bootlegged version we have?

Same version as has been booted down the years, just better quality. Brian did the song in one day, top to bottom and I assume he mixed it too.

That's the thing - you sound uncertain and you admit Brian recorded the song pretty hastily. There's a good chance that considering it was done pretty hastily, what we had before was not a final mix and was just done that day (if it was actually "done" at all). I guess I'm just kind of playing devil's advocate, here. Basically, if there was never a final mix, that may be cause for concern by any number of the camps involved - Capitol, Brian, Mike (considering his heavy involvement), Mark and Alan, EVIL MELINDA, EVIL JEFF FOSKETT, OH M GOD etc.

Just sayin', that could be why the song was remixed. I can't imagine the song ever got a final mix back in '76. Final mix in '76. lol lol get it. But yeah. I was never really attached to this one nor do I have the original booted mix on this computer, so I'm not really familiar with the differences. I'm not sayin' you lot are wrong in that the booted mix sounds better, just trying to say this might be why the remix was done. I imagine a lot of recent releases never had a proper mix done back whenever.

[runnersdialzero]

Slightly relevant: A minor thing that bugs me about the new mixes that I haven't seen anyone else mention is the ending of "Where Is She?", the fade ending that is obviously a re-edit of the first verse with some additional percussion.

Re-using parts on a new mix doesn't bug me terribly outright (although it can), but in this instance, it really doesn't make much sense. Brian spends forever telling us of how vulnerable and uncertain he's feeling. Where's his lady? Good lawd, how's he gonna get through this? And suddenly - she's coming home! She's missed him, too. D'awww, that's adorable. Situation resolved. The actual song ends nicely.

AND THEN. New fade ending. Brian starts wondering where she is again. Over and over. What? What happened to the resolve? What happened to her coming home? What happened to the nice ending, something of a big finish? It feels like an attempt to help flesh out what was likely a demo (sonically, it reminds me a bit of "Sail Plane Song"), but it doesn't really work due to the reasons I just stated and would've been better off without it. Just my opinion, it's kind of a minor thing, it could've been a Brian decision and, unlike a mix I don't care for, lopping off that ending is easy if I really wanted to.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Maybe he got so stoned that night that he forgot where she was

[monicker]

It is my hope that one day a "purist" is appointed to handle the Beach Boys catalogue and future reissues -- someone who will make it a point to present the music in the most faithful way possible with no interference or their own personal artistic liberties, someone who understands that they should be in the backseat, playing as minimal a role as possible, when presenting historical recordings that they had nothing to do with originally. You'd think that would be a given.

The problem with being a "purist" and trying to stick with the original historical recording decisions, is that the biggest of those historical recording decisions was not to ever release the song.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Really?

You're right. That's a great point. I've now changed my mind -- unreleased songs should never be released. Glad that problem's solved.

What do we talk about now?

[Moon Dawg]

Wadn't the Misfits a movie with Marilyn Monroe and Clark Gable? 

 Yep. Last film ever for both of them. Montgomery Clift was near the end of the line as well.

[runnersdialzero]

It is my hope that one day a "purist" is appointed to handle the Beach Boys catalogue and future reissues -- someone who will make it a point to present the music in the most faithful way possible with no interference or their own personal artistic liberties, someone who understands that they should be in the backseat, playing as minimal a role as possible, when presenting historical recordings that they had nothing to do with originally. You'd think that would be a given.

The problem with being a "purist" and trying to stick with the original historical recording decisions, is that the biggest of those historical recording decisions was not to ever release the song.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Really?

You're right. That's a great point. I've now changed my mind -- unreleased songs should never be released. Glad that problem's solved.

What do we talk about now?

The Misfits.

[hypehat]

It is my hope that one day a "purist" is appointed to handle the Beach Boys catalogue and future reissues -- someone who will make it a point to present the music in the most faithful way possible with no interference or their own personal artistic liberties, someone who understands that they should be in the backseat, playing as minimal a role as possible, when presenting historical recordings that they had nothing to do with originally. You'd think that would be a given.

The problem with being a "purist" and trying to stick with the original historical recording decisions, is that the biggest of those historical recording decisions was not to ever release the song.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Really?

You're right. That's a great point. I've now changed my mind -- unreleased songs should never be released. Glad that problem's solved.

What do we talk about now?

It's not the most terrible point in the world. You want a purist in there? We should never have heard Soulful Old Man Sunshine because Carl specifically didn't want it released. To pick one example. Alan disagreed and it came out on Endless Harmony. Is he not a purist?

You are talking about the two people who are employed to sort out The Beach Boys vaults, and get it past the bastards at Capitol. They have just given us the 74 Cali Feelin' demo unadulterated. And WIBNTLA (by god, do I hate that acronym), which they've been trying to do for at least six years.

And because they put some reverb on a vocal you want them fired? Come on.

[runnersdialzero]

(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again [Insane Clown Posse Remix].mp3

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

It is my hope that one day a "purist" is appointed to handle the Beach Boys catalogue and future reissues -- someone who will make it a point to present the music in the most faithful way possible with no interference or their own personal artistic liberties, someone who understands that they should be in the backseat, playing as minimal a role as possible, when presenting historical recordings that they had nothing to do with originally. You'd think that would be a given.

The problem with being a "purist" and trying to stick with the original historical recording decisions, is that the biggest of those historical recording decisions was not to ever release the song.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Really?

You're right. That's a great point. I've now changed my mind -- unreleased songs should never be released. Glad that problem's solved.

What do we talk about now?

It's not the most terrible point in the world. You want a purist in there? We should never have heard Soulful Old Man Sunshine because Carl specifically didn't want it released. To pick one example. Alan disagreed and it came out on Endless Harmony. Is he not a purist?

You are talking about the two people who are employed to sort out The Beach Boys vaults, and get it past the bastards at Capitol. They have just given us the 74 Cali Feelin' demo unadulterated. And WIBNTLA (by god, do I hate that acronym), which they've been trying to do for at least six years.

And because they put some reverb on a vocal you want them fired? Come on.

I agree...I'm not happy with some of the edits but I'll gladly take that since I now have CF74, which was on my bucket list.

[DonnyL]

It is my hope that one day a "purist" is appointed to handle the Beach Boys catalogue and future reissues -- someone who will make it a point to present the music in the most faithful way possible with no interference or their own personal artistic liberties, someone who understands that they should be in the backseat, playing as minimal a role as possible, when presenting historical recordings that they had nothing to do with originally. You'd think that would be a given.

The problem with being a "purist" and trying to stick with the original historical recording decisions, is that the biggest of those historical recording decisions was not to ever release the song.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

How about 'conservative' vs. 'liberal' artistic decisions on an archival release?

The way I see it, MIC seems to have a general vibe of 'updating' or 'modernizing' The Beach Boys' recordings. This feels like an extension of the reunion album last year ... presenting the group in a current context (not saying this was an intentional or conscious decision on the part of the producers). The Good Vibes box of '93 seemed to take the conservative approach of presenting the group's body of work as a historical document. There were plenty of remixes or newly mixed songs, digital edits, etc. there ... but it didn't seem to come off that way to listeners, because it was done in an understated manner.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I typed what I did before...and then I heard the pitch correction at 1:10 on disc six's Surfs Up 67....followed by a dodgy edit

[Wirestone]

If it were up to me, I would leave Brian's original mixes -- of released material -- untouched. There's a good case to be made, at least for things like the big hit singles, that the mono mixes represent his final artistic statement.

I like the stereo mixes, but I far prefer them being presented in a context like the Pet Sounds box or the reissues of last year. That is, alongside the mono mixes so that listeners can have a choice. Basically, I love stereo as a fan -- but I'm unsure about it as someone who values the history of these recordings and respects the original producers' intent.

I quite enjoy this new set, and I'm not a stickler for analog processing or anything like that. But for something like California Girls, you can't escape the fact that Mark Linett's stereo mix of that song is not what became a hit.

Again, this isn't something I feel super strongly about, or judge Mark harshly for doing. (You can even argue it adds value to a set like MIC for a hardcore fan like me.) But if I were compiling the releases, I would lean toward mono.

Edit: And I know this conflicts somewhat with my earlier post about preferring the compilers take risks. But I kind of prefer both things, and I am conflicted about it. Because I enjoy cool zoomy stereo effects, but then I hear that Good Vibrations mono mix, and damn, it just sounds perfect.

[Chris Moise]

Sorry this is so long, but i feel there's a lot to say in response to what i see as dismissive replies...

This is spot on. Very well said. Glad you mentioned the Please Let Me Wonder stereo remix -  that one is slathered with reverb. Like "opera house" mode on an AV receiver. Sounds closer to Getcha Back than anything from 1965. Miles away from the excellent mixing on the Pet Sounds box. Reverb aside the mix is so narrow it might as well be a mono. Shut Down on SOS is worse....witness the massive phasing in the intro.

[DonnyL]

If it were up to me, I would leave Brian's original mixes -- of released material -- untouched. There's a good case to be made, at least for things like the big hit singles, that the mono mixes represent his final artistic statement.

I like the stereo mixes, but I far prefer them being presented in a context like the Pet Sounds box or the reissues of last year. That is, alongside the mono mixes so that listeners can have a choice. Basically, I love stereo as a fan -- but I'm unsure about it as someone who values the history of these recordings and respects the original producers' intent.

I quite enjoy this new set, and I'm not a stickler for analog processing or anything like that. But for something like California Girls, you can't escape the fact that Mark Linett's stereo mix of that song is not what became a hit.

Again, this isn't something I feel super strongly about, or judge Mark harshly for doing. (You can even argue it adds value to a set like MIC for a hardcore fan like me.) But if I were compiling the releases, I would lean toward mono.

In addition to this, I'd love to hear more 'works-in-progress' or alternate/demo mixes, etc ... like, actual vintage mixes MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE! The vaults must be filled to the brim with this stuff! It's cool to hear this stuff with the original echo chambers used, the effects chosen, etc. ('You've Lost That Lovin Feelin' has dry verses and echo/delayed choruses -- there was a conscious effort there. This is a certain kind of dynamic ... I'm assuming Earle Mankey mixed that one). I mean, I think the Badman book mentions something like 30 different mixes of 'Add Some Music' were done in one sitting. And there's the mono single versions of 'Add Some Music', 'Never Learn Not to Love', etc. We have vocals-only, track-only ... but no works in progress and a limited number of vintage mixes. Something like the 'from the Vaults' disc is clearly designed as a disc of demos, alternates, etc ...

My fantasy future release is a 4-LP box set:

BEACH BOYS' BURIED TREASURE:

Disc 1 - Lei'd In Hawaii
Disc 2 - Adult Child
Disc 3 - Paley Sessions
Disc 4 - Bootlegger's Bankruptcy (all the coolest unreleased/weird tracks, 'Stevie', 'Carry Me Home', cocaine sessions, vintage alternate mixes, etc.)

Beach Boys hip and critical cred fully restored for all time.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

^ I'm with you. Won't ever happen, but I'd kill for that one.

[hypehat]

Sorry this is so long, but i feel there's a lot to say in response to what i see as dismissive replies...

This is spot on. Very well said. Glad you mentioned the Please Let Me Wonder stereo remix -  that one is slathered with reverb. Like "opera house" mode on an AV receiver. Sounds closer to Getcha Back than anything from 1965. Miles away from the excellent mixing on the Pet Sounds box. Reverb aside the mix is so narrow it might as well be a mono. Shut Down on SOS is worse....witness the massive phasing in the intro.

I have listened to Please Let Me Wonder about five times in a row and I can't hear any excessive reverb at all. The track is untouched, the vocals have a nice spread to them....


I don't know what to make of this thread