Al Jardine says there's a BAD conflict w/Mike. Aka: The welcome back AGD thread

[Cam Mott]

Mike's not just schlepping is he, he helped write most of the works from God that made the bands reputation. Preachers need a sermon and sermons need a preacher I suppose.

[Robbie Mac]

Yes, I did write that piece.

Regarding the "harshness" at the end -- if read in full -- it's a devil's advocate play on who the public really believes is "THE BEACH BOYS" -- Brian Wilson or Mike Love.
eg: (in very broad strokes) The guy who dreamed it all and made it from God -- or the guy that schlepped it all around the world on his back over and over.

Howie, really? You're in the Mike-Hater's club too? Nothing like objective reporting these days.

Howie could say that Mike puts syrup on his scrambled eggs and most folks here wold banish him to the Mike-haters Club.

[Robbie Mac]

Mike's not just schlepping is he, he helped write most of the works from God that made the bands reputation. Preachers need a sermon and sermons need a preacher I suppose.

No, he is credited thanks to a questionable 1994 lawsuit decision. A lawsuit that, on paper, Mike should not have won.

[Howie Edelson]

No working journalist has been more fair to all the individual Beach Boys than me.
None.

And even the strongest advocates of Mike Love would acknowledge the fact that his partnership with Brian Wilson is not, as in the case of Lennon/McCartney or Jagger/Richards, a "chicken or the egg" scenario.
It's a different setup. The strength -- and honestly the point that most people are missing in my post -- is that Mike Love has carried this gig for the past 50-plus years (no quitting the road, no solo tour instead of, no being too loaded to make the gig.) If addressing that fact is "bashing" him, then I honestly don't know what saluting him smells like.

And for those of you who are hip to the inner-workings of this band, they know there's TRULY no black and white answers to anything regarding it.
The reason why BB 50 worked is because of MANAGEMENT. Say whatever you will about Joe Thomas, but his MANAGED the thing.
The Beach Boys finally had a guy with a lot of dough and a vision, clapping his hands and saying "OK -- here's what we're gonna do."
And he did it -- reunion tour, studio and live LP, TV special, TWO DVD's.
Quibbles aside -- all that sh it hit the market in a YEAR.

In my opinion, the band should have a person IN HOUSE who does that, someone like the late Neil Aspinall who was able to rally the business around Apple for the Beatles' best interests.
BRI has chosen not to follow the insanely lucrative, high-end example of Apple. It will continue to cost them dearly.
Not having a strong manager who sits down with his/her bosses and says: "What do we need to do to keep everybody happy" -- and then realizing it -- is the difference between McCartney, Ringo & the widows kissing each others asses on Larry King and where the Beach Boys are in 2013.

The reason why the Beach Boys always f uck it up is because they're rudderless and really have been since 1976.

[Robbie Mac]

And Joe Thomas made the decisions that he knew would put the five principals in the very best light possible.

[guitarfool2002]

No working journalist has been more fair to all the individual Beach Boys than me.
None.

And even the strongest advocates of Mike Love would acknowledge the fact that his partnership with Brian Wilson is not, as in the case of Lennon/McCartney or Jagger/Richards, a "chicken or the egg" scenario.
It's a different setup. The strength -- and honestly the point that most people are missing in my post -- is that Mike Love has carried this gig for the past 50-plus years (no quitting the road, no solo tour instead of, no being too loaded to make the gig.) If addressing that fact is "bashing" him, then I honestly don't know what saluting him smells like.

And for those of you who are hip to the inner-workings of this band, they know there's TRULY no black and white answers to anything regarding it.
The reason why BB 50 worked is because of MANAGEMENT. Say whatever you will about Joe Thomas, but his MANAGED the thing.
The Beach Boys finally had a guy with a lot of dough and a vision, clapping his hands and saying "OK -- here's what we're gonna do."
And he did it -- reunion tour, studio and live LP, TV special, TWO DVD's.
Quibbles aside -- all that sh it hit the market in a YEAR.

In my opinion, the band should have a person IN HOUSE who does that, someone like the late Neil Aspinall who was able to rally the business around Apple for the Beatles' best interests.
BRI has chosen not to follow the insanely lucrative, high-end example of Apple. It will continue to cost them dearly.
Not having a strong manager who sits down with his/her bosses and says: "What do we need to do to keep everybody happy" -- and then realizing it -- is the difference between McCartney, Ringo & the widows kissing each others asses on Larry King and where the Beach Boys are in 2013.

The reason why the Beach Boys always f uck it up is because they're rudderless and really have been since 1976.

I just want to say this was a great read. That "Larry King" appearance surrounding the "Love" project still sticks in my mind, for reasons good, bad, and uncomfortable, yet it happened and I can't forget it. It's insightful to relate it to the BB's saga, and something I had not considered.

I think the Neil Aspinall reference is apt, however in all fairness Neil was educated in business, that was what his training was in school. So in Neil, you had - let's call it what it is - the real "Fifth Beatle" along with the late Mal of course, who was not only in the inner circle of friendship and business going back to the early 60's Liverpool days, but one who had the skills and knowledge to effectively steer the ship as a businessman. And as someone who, by all accounts, did not suffer through bullshit or bullshitters out to hustle the band or their legacy.

So there may be the difference - Neil was a Beatle from the early days, and had the business skills to care for their interests and legacy when he was called to do so. The Beach Boys had no one at nearly the same time in history to do something like this, and had to essentially rely on either outsiders to be called in, or fall back on nepotism where family members who did not have the business chops to do the job were tasked with things they weren't equipped to do.

So the Beatles with Neil did have the upper hand as far as being the captain of the boat. The BB's, in Howie's words, were rudderless in that area.

[JohnMill]

No working journalist has been more fair to all the individual Beach Boys than me.
None.

And even the strongest advocates of Mike Love would acknowledge the fact that his partnership with Brian Wilson is not, as in the case of Lennon/McCartney or Jagger/Richards, a "chicken or the egg" scenario.
It's a different setup. The strength -- and honestly the point that most people are missing in my post -- is that Mike Love has carried this gig for the past 50-plus years (no quitting the road, no solo tour instead of, no being too loaded to make the gig.) If addressing that fact is "bashing" him, then I honestly don't know what saluting him smells like.

And for those of you who are hip to the inner-workings of this band, they know there's TRULY no black and white answers to anything regarding it.
The reason why BB 50 worked is because of MANAGEMENT. Say whatever you will about Joe Thomas, but his MANAGED the thing.
The Beach Boys finally had a guy with a lot of dough and a vision, clapping his hands and saying "OK -- here's what we're gonna do."
And he did it -- reunion tour, studio and live LP, TV special, TWO DVD's.
Quibbles aside -- all that sh it hit the market in a YEAR.

In my opinion, the band should have a person IN HOUSE who does that, someone like the late Neil Aspinall who was able to rally the business around Apple for the Beatles' best interests.
BRI has chosen not to follow the insanely lucrative, high-end example of Apple. It will continue to cost them dearly.
Not having a strong manager who sits down with his/her bosses and says: "What do we need to do to keep everybody happy" -- and then realizing it -- is the difference between McCartney, Ringo & the widows kissing each others asses on Larry King and where the Beach Boys are in 2013.

The reason why the Beach Boys always f uck it up is because they're rudderless and really have been since 1976.

I have edited/deleted this post due to the fact that it was largely based on the opinions, research and conjecture of individuals not present on these forums.  I think it is both unfair and improper for me to serve as a mouthpiece, conduit or representative of their viewpoints in lieu of them being able to express their viewpoints to you in their own words.  

[Cam Mott]

Mike's not just schlepping is he, he helped write most of the works from God that made the bands reputation. Preachers need a sermon and sermons need a preacher I suppose.

No, he is credited thanks to a questionable 1994 lawsuit decision. A lawsuit that, on paper, Mike should not have won.

Welcome to the board. Were you on the jury?

[urbanite]

I totally agree, the band needs a strong manager that will tell members of the group what needs to be done and then somehow makes it happen.  Apparently, Mr. Love didn't care for Joe Thomas' control, but, there is no way to please everyone when so many are sort of dysfunctional.

[Cam Mott]

No working journalist has been more fair to all the individual Beach Boys than me.
None.

And even the strongest advocates of Mike Love would acknowledge the fact that his partnership with Brian Wilson is not, as in the case of Lennon/McCartney or Jagger/Richards, a "chicken or the egg" scenario.
It's a different setup. The strength -- and honestly the point that most people are missing in my post -- is that Mike Love has carried this gig for the past 50-plus years (no quitting the road, no solo tour instead of, no being too loaded to make the gig.) If addressing that fact is "bashing" him, then I honestly don't know what saluting him smells like.

And for those of you who are hip to the inner-workings of this band, they know there's TRULY no black and white answers to anything regarding it.
The reason why BB 50 worked is because of MANAGEMENT. Say whatever you will about Joe Thomas, but his MANAGED the thing.
The Beach Boys finally had a guy with a lot of dough and a vision, clapping his hands and saying "OK -- here's what we're gonna do."
And he did it -- reunion tour, studio and live LP, TV special, TWO DVD's.
Quibbles aside -- all that sh it hit the market in a YEAR.

In my opinion, the band should have a person IN HOUSE who does that, someone like the late Neil Aspinall who was able to rally the business around Apple for the Beatles' best interests.
BRI has chosen not to follow the insanely lucrative, high-end example of Apple. It will continue to cost them dearly.
Not having a strong manager who sits down with his/her bosses and says: "What do we need to do to keep everybody happy" -- and then realizing it -- is the difference between McCartney, Ringo & the widows kissing each others asses on Larry King and where the Beach Boys are in 2013.

The reason why the Beach Boys always f uck it up is because they're rudderless and really have been since 1976.

Hear, hear.

[filledeplage]

Mike's not just schlepping is he, he helped write most of the works from God that made the bands reputation. Preachers need a sermon and sermons need a preacher I suppose.

No, he is credited thanks to a questionable 1994 lawsuit decision. A lawsuit that, on paper, Mike should not have won.

Welcome to the board. Were you on the jury?

Go Cam!  

It's Friday, and a double smiley brew for you!  

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Much thanks.

Very informative article, as usual, Howie. Reading between the lines, it sounds like Mike is preventing Al, David and Brian from billing themselves as Original Beach Boys? I did a random check of venues hosting the BAD/Beck tour and there is nary a mention of the name "the Beach Boys".

Thanks for being a regular conduit to the inner workings of the  band. Great reporting!

[Cam Mott]

Mike's not just schlepping is he, he helped write most of the works from God that made the bands reputation. Preachers need a sermon and sermons need a preacher I suppose.

No, he is credited thanks to a questionable 1994 lawsuit decision. A lawsuit that, on paper, Mike should not have won.

Welcome to the board. Were you on the jury?

Go Cam!  

It's Friday, and a double smiley brew for you!  

[blush]

[JohnMill]

For what it's worth in my opinion the talk of The Beach Boys bringing in a manager the likes of a Neil Aspinall at this point is ridiculous.  Brian Wilson and whomever he chooses to include in his act continues to draw money on a yearly basis.  "The Beach Boys" (or M&B as many of us, myself included choose to refer to them as) continue to draw money on a yearly basis as well.  The C50 showed that when you bring all the parties together you can open up streams of revenue not available to the two individual camps on their own.

But honestly at this point we are talking about very wealthy and successful men and in Brian Wilson and Mike Love's cases two men who have found lucrative streams of revenue in terms of drawing money on a consistent basis without having to associate with each other on a day to day basis.  As a Beach Boys fan, I would love to see the C50 lineup back in tact but honestly I just don't see the impetus from the perspective of the parties involved in doing something such as bringing in a manager to oversee the brand.  The reason being: The brand is actually functioning very well right now without one.

[Howie Edelson]

To answer JohnMill --

I can attest to the fact that Apple is working on numerous projects right now.

NUMEROUS.

And in 2013 The Beatles HAVE released product for its fan base -- a beautifully restored Blu-ray edition of HELP!, the previous year came Blu-rays of MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR and YELLOW SUBMARINE.
Work continues on LET IT BE, which has been problematic since its inception.
As someone who knows a thing or two about Apple's inner-workings, it's a pretty tight, healthy, and well oiled machine with its directors agreeing on FAR MORE THINGS than not.

The reason that 2013 has been light is that 2014 marks the band's 50th anniversary of breaking America and the coming year will be a more important global milestone than this year.

But the underlying fact is that The Beatles are The Beatles and they don't need to do something every year for their fans. And that pretty much that. The brand couldn't be stronger and relations within simply could not be better.
 

[JohnMill]

To answer JohnMill --

I can attest to the fact that Apple is working on numerous projects right now.

NUMEROUS.

And in 2013 The Beatles HAVE released product for its fan base -- a beautifully restored Blu-ray edition of HELP!, the previous year came Blu-rays of MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR and YELLOW SUBMARINE.
Work continues on LET IT BE, which has been problematic since its inception.
As someone who knows a thing or two about Apple's inner-workings, it's a pretty tight, healthy, and well oiled machine with its directors agreeing on FAR MORE THINGS than not.

The reason that 2013 has been light is that 2014 marks the band's 50th anniversary of breaking America and the coming year will be a more important global milestone than this year.

But the underlying fact is that The Beatles are The Beatles and they don't need to do something every year for their fans. And that pretty much that. The brand couldn't be stronger and relations within simply could not be better.
 

With all due respect, I think you would find great argument against almost everything you wrote in your above posting (aside from the fact that The Beatles don't need to do something every year for their fans) if you had posted it at the Sulpy forums because it quite frankly flies in the face of almost everything I've read over there in the ten year period I've been visiting.  I'm not saying your or the opinions of the fans, scholars and scribes on those forums are more valid than the others as both could probably be viewed as subjective.  Therefore as a Beatles fan, much as I've been for most of my tenure as one I'll remain in a wait and see mode as it pertains to the future activities of the brand.  

[Jon Stebbins]

Just FYI for anyone who might be wondering...although Howie has interacted on a personal and business level with the surviving Beach Boys, and written more widely read news updates and articles on them over the past decade than anyone in the US radio related press...he's more versed in Beatles really. He has written some truly groundbreaking and obsessively deep work on McCartney and the others, and I have trouble understanding how his brain and schedule have room for all of that considering he has two sons under the age of three. Thanks for pushing the envelope Howie.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Just FYI for anyone who might be wondering...although Howie has interacted on a personal and business level with the surviving Beach Boys, and written more widely read news updates and articles on them over the past decade than anyone in the US radio related press...he's more versed in Beatles really. He has written some truly groundbreaking and obsessively deep work on McCartney and the others, and I have trouble understanding how his brain and schedule have room for all of that considering he has two sons under the age of three. Thanks for pushing the envelope Howie.

I personally LOVE all the things you and Howie do Jon! Rock journalists with a days gone by vibe when rock revolutionized the world. We are even more lucky to have both of your insights regularly posted on the board. Thank you!

[Sound of Free]

I totally agree, the band needs a strong manager that will tell members of the group what needs to be done and then somehow makes it happen.

Is Henry Lazarus still alive? 

[Heysaboda]

Wonder if Howie wrote this?

Al says Brian, Al and David want to bill themselves as Original Beach Boys. Apparently, Mike is fighting it.

http://www.wmmr.com/music/news/story.aspx?ID=2025029

Enjoy! These guys really know how to promote a box set!

And we'll have Fun, Fun, Fun still daddy takes the License away!!! 

[drbeachboy]

No working journalist has been more fair to all the individual Beach Boys than me.
None.

And even the strongest advocates of Mike Love would acknowledge the fact that his partnership with Brian Wilson is not, as in the case of Lennon/McCartney or Jagger/Richards, a "chicken or the egg" scenario.
It's a different setup. The strength -- and honestly the point that most people are missing in my post -- is that Mike Love has carried this gig for the past 50-plus years (no quitting the road, no solo tour instead of, no being too loaded to make the gig.) If addressing that fact is "bashing" him, then I honestly don't know what saluting him smells like.

And for those of you who are hip to the inner-workings of this band, they know there's TRULY no black and white answers to anything regarding it.
The reason why BB 50 worked is because of MANAGEMENT. Say whatever you will about Joe Thomas, but his MANAGED the thing.
The Beach Boys finally had a guy with a lot of dough and a vision, clapping his hands and saying "OK -- here's what we're gonna do."
And he did it -- reunion tour, studio and live LP, TV special, TWO DVD's.
Quibbles aside -- all that sh it hit the market in a YEAR.

In my opinion, the band should have a person IN HOUSE who does that, someone like the late Neil Aspinall who was able to rally the business around Apple for the Beatles' best interests.
BRI has chosen not to follow the insanely lucrative, high-end example of Apple. It will continue to cost them dearly.
Not having a strong manager who sits down with his/her bosses and says: "What do we need to do to keep everybody happy" -- and then realizing it -- is the difference between McCartney, Ringo & the widows kissing each others asses on Larry King and where the Beach Boys are in 2013.

The reason why the Beach Boys always f uck it up is because they're rudderless and really have been since 1976.

Your article was not just addressed to their fan-base. You really think listeners at Philly's WMMR are Beach Boys fanatics? Your lucky if you hear them on there once a year. While the article itself was fine, the question thing at the end was bush-league. You are baiting the reader. Of course there is no right answer, but seeing the responses on the page, you just incite the reader to take a side, of which there really is none.

[Jon Stebbins]

Just FYI for anyone who might be wondering...although Howie has interacted on a personal and business level with the surviving Beach Boys, and written more widely read news updates and articles on them over the past decade than anyone in the US radio related press...he's more versed in Beatles really. He has written some truly groundbreaking and obsessively deep work on McCartney and the others, and I have trouble understanding how his brain and schedule have room for all of that considering he has two sons under the age of three. Thanks for pushing the envelope Howie.

I personally LOVE all the things you and Howie do Jon! Rock journalists with a days gone by vibe when rock revolutionized the world. We are even more lucky to have both of your insights regularly posted on the board. Thank you!

Thanks, that was a nice gesture, and I appreciate the support.

[guitarfool2002]

Keep in mind the debates about the legacy and image of the Beach Boys is nearly the same as the battle Murry and Brian had at the end of '66, where Good Vibrations could either find new fan bases or alienate the old ones. Take nearly every debate from that point onward and it's the same issue replayed over and over. From Jack Reilly to The Dead to Endless Summer to Kokomo to 2013.

Is there an answer for who was ultimately right in that debate?

I think one of the reasons why The Beatles brand is so strong today is that, having called it quits conveniently at the end of the 60's, they didn't have the opportunity to mess with the image the public had in their minds by releasing material that was either questionable or in worst cases, piss-poor, and calling it a "Beatles" project. The legacy to be judged ended with the 60's, anything beyond that reflected more on them as individuals and solo artists. Save for two "Anthology" tracks.

Seriously, at any point after John's death, then George's, would anyone accept that a Paul and Ringo collaboration album or tour was a "Beatles" tour or album?

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Just FYI for anyone who might be wondering...although Howie has interacted on a personal and business level with the surviving Beach Boys, and written more widely read news updates and articles on them over the past decade than anyone in the US radio related press...he's more versed in Beatles really. He has written some truly groundbreaking and obsessively deep work on McCartney and the others, and I have trouble understanding how his brain and schedule have room for all of that considering he has two sons under the age of three. Thanks for pushing the envelope Howie.

I personally LOVE all the things you and Howie do Jon! Rock journalists with a days gone by vibe when rock revolutionized the world. We are even more lucky to have both of your insights regularly posted on the board. Thank you!

Thanks, that was a nice gesture, and I appreciate the support.

You are welcome Jon. But thank you!

I had read The Lost Beach Boy several years ago. Last year I had the great pleasure of meeting and talking privately with David backstage at a C50 show. Besides David being a super nice guy, I realized how superbly you had captured his persona in your book.

[Howie Edelson]

DrBeachBoy --

To clarify what I do. I write a syndicated feed that goes out to thousands of stations across North America. It is written primarily for DJ's to read on the air -- much like an interactive AP wire.
Some affiliates enjoy the "Side Notes," "Fast Facts" and "Ask Your Listeners" pieces written specifically for the jocks that they include them -- and audio -- for their web content, too.

Classic Rock radio news talks about TONS of bands you never hear played -- the Beach Boys being one of many.
FYI: Philly is one of a half-dozen East Coast Beach Boy strongholds in the country. Tremendous fan-base.
Classic Rock radio SOLD both the BWPS LP and its tour dates.
Never heard a single track from the album on the air.

Rock radio has many functions. Spinning Doobie Brothers hits is but one of them.

I write about Deep Purple, too. And when I do I write as though I'm talking to THEIR fan-base as well.