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Author Topic: Durrie Parks Smile acetates up for sale for $10,000  (Read 50973 times)
The Heartical Don
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« Reply #175 on: March 04, 2013, 06:05:39 AM »

Oh my god!! I need to hear these tracks.

I know this question must have been covered a bunch of times but does anyone know exactly when and why Brian gave the acetates away. Did he keep any for himself? Did capitol not what to keep possession of them?

I should think they were given to Van as reference. Brian used them as dailies, in the film sense. Although tape was often used for dailies, acetate seems to have been Brian's preferred medium. There was probably a ton of them, and if this lot make money we may see more surface.

Thanks!

I'm fascinated about Brian's attitude towards Smile after the whole thing collapsed.

It took others too make him re-record it and then to evetually release the sessions. Incredible he had no interest in the public hearing his greatest work. Such a humble guy.

With all due respect: I doubt if Brian ever thought about Pet Sounds or SMiLE as being: 'his greatest work'. I think he's not that much the type of artist who puts the matter of a big audience for his achievements at the top spot. IMHO his perspective on these things is a somewhat fleeting one; nothing is carved in stone and dogma. He may have thought at the time: not finished, work is difficult at this time, I can't get Mike warmed up to the project enough; Van Dyke is showing signs of disinterest because it's going so slow, I'd better shelve it... (my conjectures); and then there was the matter of his psychological difficulties addressing themselves, of course.

I wonder about Brian's attitude towards the whole cult that grew around SMiLE over the years. He must have heard and/or read about it... and perhaps he found it embarrassing, I don't know (if anyone knows about any comments of his about this, please fill in).

Humble and modest he is, yes.  He may have seen SMiLE as 'just a piece of unfinished work' for a very long time. He cited quite a few other albums as his favourite of all: Friends  is a well-known example. A  lovely album, but IMHO quite slight compared to the majesty of Pet Sounds and SMiLE.

Brian is, as in many other matters, pretty inscrutable about this. I don't know how much effort the other members had to make to get 'Our Prayer' and 'Cabinessence' on the 20/20 collection. As for 'Surf's Up', he had to be pushed, IIRC.
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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #176 on: March 04, 2013, 06:08:26 AM »

I think Brian is more comfortable about the SMiLE sessions after listening to them again in 2011.  He was happy to be reminded about his prime of music making.
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« Reply #177 on: March 04, 2013, 07:29:10 AM »

This may be revisiting a few discussions that had opened up some pretty heated debates in the past, but with Brian's attitude towards Smile up to the point where it did start getting released in dribs and drabs, leading up to of course his own live staging of the album...I got the impression he was at times falling on the sword, or in other lingo "taking one for the team", by dismissing or downplaying Smile. He'd say "it was inappropriate music for the Beach Boys", "we never finished that", "I destroyed the tapes", "I couldn't follow up Good Vibrations" any number of quotes like that.

And it all seemed to be designed to deflect attention away from the music, whether or not a cult following of sorts had been slowly developing around not only the legend and mythology of Smile but also behind what pieces of the music itself had been recycled or reused on other Beach Boys projects and those recycled pieces were often the highlight of whatever album or collection they appeared on.

A poignant though obviously biased moment for me was when Rolling Stone gave the 1993 box set a 5-star review, and the reviewer wrote what many people may have been feeling who had never heard that much of Smile: It was hard to move beyond that specific disc of the box set, the music was in fact that compelling and that good, the Smile music had a tendency for some listeners to overshadow what came after it, no matter how good the other songs were.

At that time, a lot of fans who had now heard a decent chunk of Smile thought along the lines of why didn't this come out? Or why don't they put more of it out?

"Taking one for the team" suggests a sacrifice made in order to help the larger cause at hand, I think that was one factor for Brian. I also think, and this is a stretch and a big assumption, that he *knew* what he had created and he knew how good it really was, but for various reasons to bring it out into the open at certain times up into the 2000's was not possible.

The live performances, preparations in 2003-4...remember one of the first rehearsals they filmed, where the band is running vocals and whatnot in the house and Brian gets this look on his face that you can't really put into words, and he looks shaken to the point he doesn't continue? Whatever that was - it would be rude and insensitive to even guess - but whatever those feelings were that welled up as they ran through parts of Smile were part of what he was holding inside about this music.

I get the feeling he loved this music, it was his product from a great time in his middle 20's when a lot of guys think they have the world on a string and can do anything, and he had a group of friends around him who were loyal and encouraging even on his more unusual projects and fleeting whims of ideas. And the music was always the undercurrent, it was the product of that environment.

Then, without getting into the how's and why's which have been discussed plenty of times in the past, that fast it was all gone. And the music got picked off the bone like Turkey on the table at Thanksgiving, and the rest got stashed in the vaults, only to be picked at here and there but remaining mostly closed up.

That had to hurt, but in some way I think Brian got protective and dismissive of it because opening it up on a bigger level - at certain periods of history - would also open up more than just the vaults.

And consider this - he could remember very specific items and details about it decades later - it was never totally shut out or shut down in his mind. Usually something that mattered that much never leaves your thoughts, which seems to be the case with Smile. Add Van Dyke Parks into that factor as well - without prompting, he was able to recall lyrics he composed one day some 40 or so years prior to getting the phone call. Which means he never forgot either, no matter how much he might have dismissed it in interviews or when asked about Smile.

But the process which began at Royal Festival Hall in 2004, continued with the Smile Sessions box, and continues with whatever other discoveries eventually come down the road, were not only a catharsis but also a vindication if not a validation that the music was, indeed, *that good* (never mind the mythology) and this man in his mid 20's was truly doing something unique in pop music...music that people not only enjoy but actually love and take inspiration from.

So it took decades, and his reasons for brushing it aside may just remain his own private reasons, but when the music was celebrated and those around him in greater numbers were celebrating it, I think it gave Brian a chance to celebrate it and enjoy it as well, especially after the vaults were open for the public to see and hear, perhaps literally and figuratively. Just my opinion.
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« Reply #178 on: March 04, 2013, 08:01:48 AM »

It is tough to imagine some of the thoughts Brian must've had about Smile. Imagine being the writer of "Cabinessence" and then having Al freakin' Jardine be unimpressed with your cover of "Cottonfields"? To top it off, he records his own version and it's a huge hit in Europe.  What a strange world it must've felt like...
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« Reply #179 on: March 04, 2013, 08:34:49 AM »

It is tough to imagine some of the thoughts Brian must've had about Smile. Imagine being the writer of "Cabinessence" and then having Al freakin' Jardine be unimpressed with your cover of "Cottonfields"? To top it off, he records his own version and it's a huge hit in Europe.  What a strange world it must've felt like...

How about this analogy: I used the visual of a turkey on the Thanksgiving dinner table in the long post above: What if you invite the in-laws and family to the house for Thanksgiving, you make a full dinner spread with the centerpiece being a fresh Turkey, for which you tried a "new" stuffing, something other than Grandma's traditional family recipe, different than usual but perhaps better.

So all the brothers and nephews and sisters and aunts and whatnot sit down at the table, notice the stuffing isn't Grandma's (but won't admit it's good) and can't get past the fact that you didn't use Grandma's stuffing like the family had done for years. The talk isn't about the goodness of the meal, but rather about the damned stuffing.

So you're naturally a little offended, but take it in stride.

Then later that night, well after dinner, you're watching TV and happen to walk into the kitchen where you can see those same relatives who were complaining about the stuffing now picking the meat off the leftover turkey and saying how good it is, making leftover sandwiches, etc. yet when you served it at the official dinner table, it was all about that stuffing.

You'd probably be upset, or at least offended in some way.

Not to connect that analogy to anyone or anything specific to the years 1967-73 and Smile, but there were a few cases where such an analogy would at least be relevant in the saga.

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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #180 on: March 04, 2013, 08:49:11 AM »

@Guitarfool2002 -

that's a mighty fine call. Thank you.
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« Reply #181 on: March 04, 2013, 09:02:43 AM »

Great stuff, DonnyL. Thanks for the stories/links! Btw, you're a good guesser!

So any thoughts on when these acetates date from?

I was going to say late '66, but the "Time To Get Alone" track doesn't fit that timescale unless that was given to Van later. For the other songs though, October / November '66 would be my guess. Seeing as most of the H&V we have comes from post January '67, we could have some very exciting documents here from the most active period of Smile sessions.

Also, it mentions on the sale info, but I can't remember if Andy mentioned this, an alternate verse to Cabinessence. (I think by 20 /20 version they mean the version we all know, the only version) So this could be an actual alternate version of the verse track?Huh

I'm guessing the alternate version of Wind Chimes is the August '66 version.

I wish that was the case for Cabin Essence. I was most looking forward to hearing the CE acetates, followed by Worms, in the hopes of something new (but hey, what I heard ended up being better!).

CE, if I remember correctly, was very similar to one of the Secret Smile tracks. It's verse instrumental with vocal doings/Who Ran the Iron Horse/verse instrumental/Who Ran the Iron Horse/Grand Coulee. The only thing that was different to me was possibly the vocal mix on Grand Coulee.

One other sort of interesting thing..I seem to remember a piece of CE being on one of the other acetates..I can't remember if it was the Worms or H&V acetate.

As for WindChimes, it's not the August version with celeste. It's the more used backing track with marimba. I can't remember if the vocals were there or not, and I'm not sure why it's labeled alternate version. I think this version has been in circulation.
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« Reply #182 on: March 04, 2013, 09:28:10 AM »

...As for WindChimes, it's not the August version with celeste. It's the more used backing track with marimba. I can't remember if the vocals were there or not, and I'm not sure why it's labeled alternate version. I think this version has been in circulation.

Did the acetate version hard edit into the multiple piano fade as on the GV box set version or did it just end?

At any rate, as has been noted a couple of times in earlier posts, this feels like pretty conclusive proof that "I'm In Great Shape" started life as the bridge following the the first two verses in "H & V" (just like in the Humble Harv demo) and was eventually replaced by the similar sounding "Cantina" bridge.
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« Reply #183 on: March 04, 2013, 09:31:40 AM »

Did you hear the “Time To Get Alone” acetate? Is there any chance they have given it the wrong title (Look)? Because its presence sure seems weird (or else this makes it’s presence in the early setlists for ‘Brian Wilson Present Smile’ seem LESS weird).
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« Reply #184 on: March 04, 2013, 09:54:15 AM »

Maybe Brian wanted Van Dyke to write some lyrics for it? He wrote a few songs with Van Dyke after Smile, such as "Sunflower Maiden".
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« Reply #185 on: March 04, 2013, 10:08:19 AM »

...As for WindChimes, it's not the August version with celeste. It's the more used backing track with marimba. I can't remember if the vocals were there or not, and I'm not sure why it's labeled alternate version. I think this version has been in circulation.

Did the acetate version hard edit into the multiple piano fade as on the GV box set version or did it just end?

It just ended, I think.
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« Reply #186 on: March 04, 2013, 10:09:40 AM »

Did you hear the “Time To Get Alone” acetate? Is there any chance they have given it the wrong title (Look)? Because its presence sure seems weird (or else this makes it’s presence in the early setlists for ‘Brian Wilson Present Smile’ seem LESS weird).

I didn't listen to it. In fact I don't recall seeing it, which is kind of weird.
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« Reply #187 on: March 04, 2013, 11:22:27 AM »

...As for WindChimes, it's not the August version with celeste. It's the more used backing track with marimba. I can't remember if the vocals were there or not, and I'm not sure why it's labeled alternate version. I think this version has been in circulation.

Did the acetate version hard edit into the multiple piano fade as on the GV box set version or did it just end?

At any rate, as has been noted a couple of times in earlier posts, this feels like pretty conclusive proof that "I'm In Great Shape" started life as the bridge following the the first two verses in "H & V" (just like in the Humble Harv demo) and was eventually replaced by the similar sounding "Cantina" bridge.

Yes - it certainly seems to precede 'my children were raised' in the same way cantina did. Amazing that this edit has materialised. I'm fascinated by andy's description of it sounding fuller with similar instrumentation as false barnyard. Desperate to hear this!
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« Reply #188 on: March 04, 2013, 11:23:10 AM »

Maybe Brian wanted Van Dyke to write some lyrics for it? He wrote a few songs with Van Dyke after Smile, such as "Sunflower Maiden".

Maybe "Time To Get Alone" is "Sunflower Maiden".
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« Reply #189 on: March 04, 2013, 11:24:27 AM »

Did you hear the “Time To Get Alone” acetate? Is there any chance they have given it the wrong title (Look)? Because its presence sure seems weird (or else this makes it’s presence in the early setlists for ‘Brian Wilson Present Smile’ seem LESS weird).

There's every possibility he worked with Danny Hutton on it during the Smile era - when was the Redwood version cut?
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« Reply #190 on: March 04, 2013, 11:30:09 AM »

Did you hear the “Time To Get Alone” acetate? Is there any chance they have given it the wrong title (Look)? Because its presence sure seems weird (or else this makes it’s presence in the early setlists for ‘Brian Wilson Present Smile’ seem LESS weird).

There's every possibility he worked with Danny Hutton on it during the Smile era - when was the Redwood version cut?

During the wild honey sessions I thought.
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« Reply #191 on: March 04, 2013, 11:39:41 AM »

I don't know why anybody would think "Time To Get Alone" would be part of the Smile sessions. The Redwood sessions were supposedly on October 14 and 15, 1967, and the Beach Boys session is thought to be a few days before that (Bellagio site).
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #192 on: March 04, 2013, 12:06:33 PM »

I thought I heard rumors that TTGA was an early inclusion for the Brian Wilson Presents SMiLE tour. Maybe it was Peter Reum who confirmed that, but I cannot remember.

Otherwise, it's musically, lyrically and thematically different from SMiLE, and I really don't hear the connection.
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« Reply #193 on: March 04, 2013, 12:12:20 PM »

So has no-one bought them yet? Maybe someone should persuade Elijah Wood to buy them, he's a massive Beach Boys and Smile fan and must have a fair amount of money from the LoTR films. And Wilfred.
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« Reply #194 on: March 04, 2013, 12:13:48 PM »

I thought I heard rumors that TTGA was an early inclusion for the Brian Wilson Presents SMiLE tour. Maybe it was Peter Reum who confirmed that, but I cannot remember.

Otherwise, it's musically, lyrically and thematically different from SMiLE, and I really don't hear the connection.

It seems strange that Van would have an acetate of this as he wasn't working with Brian at this time-although he was friends with Danny who may have given it to him.

Could the alternate Wind chimes be the fabled mix Brian played repeatedly for Vosse as he described in his Fusion interview?  The one thing he mentioned that stood out was a different mix on the vocals in the second section, they faded in and out to give a percussion like effect.

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« Reply #195 on: March 04, 2013, 12:35:52 PM »

I thought I heard rumors that TTGA was an early inclusion for the Brian Wilson Presents SMiLE tour. Maybe it was Peter Reum who confirmed that, but I cannot remember.

Otherwise, it's musically, lyrically and thematically different from SMiLE, and I really don't hear the connection.

"Time To Get Alone" was on the setlist for Brian's Smile tour in early 2004.
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #196 on: March 04, 2013, 12:40:00 PM »

In two clearly spliced edits (speaking of which, I can't remember if IIGS had the tape distortion effect the earlier takes had, but if it did it was much, much more subtle), IGGS went directly into the harpsichord playing that's underneath "my children were raised, you know they...",

Can you describe these "two clearly spliced edits", please? I don't know how to imagine these.
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« Reply #197 on: March 04, 2013, 12:58:49 PM »

Did you hear the “Time To Get Alone” acetate? Is there any chance they have given it the wrong title (Look)? Because its presence sure seems weird (or else this makes it’s presence in the early setlists for ‘Brian Wilson Present Smile’ seem LESS weird).

It makes sense that the 'Time to Get Alone' was in Durrie's possession, as they were close to Danny Hutton during this period. This would date from a bit later than the Smile stuff of course. Or Durrie got it later on from Danny - VERY possible (trust me).
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« Reply #198 on: March 04, 2013, 01:20:25 PM »

Oh my god!! I need to hear these tracks.

I know this question must have been covered a bunch of times but does anyone know exactly when and why Brian gave the acetates away. Did he keep any for himself? Did capitol not what to keep possession of them?

I should think they were given to Van as reference. Brian used them as dailies, in the film sense. Although tape was often used for dailies, acetate seems to have been Brian's preferred medium. There was probably a ton of them, and if this lot make money we may see more surface.

Yeah I think the blanks cost about .50 then - easy & fast to produce with a hot cutter so quite an economical method to store and review the day's work.
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« Reply #199 on: March 04, 2013, 01:25:15 PM »

...As for WindChimes, it's not the August version with celeste. It's the more used backing track with marimba. I can't remember if the vocals were there or not, and I'm not sure why it's labeled alternate version. I think this version has been in circulation.

Did the acetate version hard edit into the multiple piano fade as on the GV box set version or did it just end?

At any rate, as has been noted a couple of times in earlier posts, this feels like pretty conclusive proof that "I'm In Great Shape" started life as the bridge following the the first two verses in "H & V" (just like in the Humble Harv demo) and was eventually replaced by the similar sounding "Cantina" bridge.

Yes - it certainly seems to precede 'my children were raised' in the same way cantina did. Amazing that this edit has materialised. I'm fascinated by andy's description of it sounding fuller with similar instrumentation as false barnyard. Desperate to hear this!

Yes - the fuller instrumentation means that either this section was rerecorded with different instrumentation after the October session that produced the box set version OR Brian held a session to overdub over the box set track.  Either way I assume this was done at a session booked as Heroes and Villains - we're missing a fair amount of tapes for Heroes sessions listed in the Smile Sessions booklet in November and December.  Too bad there aren't dates on the acetates!  Andy does the acetate start with IIGS - what precedes it?  In other words is it edited in to the Heroes verses as Brian played it on the HumblenHarv demo in November, or differently?
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