So are we going to have this modern music (esp rap) is rubbish discussion then?

[Myk Luhv]

There's plenty of musically interesting hip-hop, what the hell is wrong with some of you? And that still wouldn't make it good, I think. Das Racist can make pretty dense (both lyrically and musically) hip-hop... I just think it's terrible hipster garbage. Whatever that song of theirs is where they rap about White Castle is awful: They try and cram too many syllables and words into lines and verses, and the beat sounds like someone listened to Bomb Squad production thinking it wasn't "busy" enough, deciding to just overload the beat with... stuff happening.

[Manchini]

Rapping isn't really "talking," anyhow. An element of rap that impresses me is vocal inflection. There is pitch in almost anything if you are sensitive enough to it. I once heard that a toilet flushes in Eb -- that's probably total bullsh*t, but you get what I'm saying. I love the pitches guys like Eminem and Tech N9ne will use their flows, and without singing, these guys can make a very dynamic vocal track. And that's not even mentioning the rhyming, which is a whole skill on its own with multi-syllabic lines, inverted rhymes, etc.

Edit:
I guess a couple people had already touched on this. I didn't read it all. Nevertheless...

[SMiLE Brian]

Old p-funk  from Dr. Dre is still great, his backing tracks are art.

[William Bowe]

But now, the impression I get from talking to teenagers and 20-somethings is that it is pretty common to like "old" music. The fact this has now become pretty common tells me that current music is lacking in something even teenagers and 20-somethings yearn for, and which they can only find in their parent's music (and by now some of it is even their grandparent's music!).

What it tells me is that there hasn't been any dramatic historical or social upheaval since the 1960s, when a generation that had not experienced the world wars and depression of early 20th century came of age. For young people in the 60s, swing sat on the other side of a stark historical divide. Since then there has been more-or-less steady technological and material progress. My generation's circumstances were not greatly different from my parents', so it was a lot easier for us to be receptive to their music.

[Roger Ryan]

I always counted this as sort-of the first (or one of the first) rap song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nULwgHsVqw

Rap goes much further back. In fact, here's an example where the style had already been co-opted by white folks  ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9EhGOs-tZE

Note that this anticipates the Beastie Boys by over 40 years!

[Paulos]

I don't dislike rap or hip hop, I simply don't get it. I try listening to it objectively but I simply don't hear what I'm supposed to be getting. I think Billy touched on this in the other thread in that modern production styles may be off-putting to many people and I agree, modern mainstream music is far too slick, polished and sterile for my tastes, which may also be why I can't get behind a lot of 80's music because the production from that era makes me cringe, especially the gated reverb snare sound.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I love the 80s, but specifically the early 80s, as that was my biggest musical influence. That said, the ballads generally haven't dated as well as the uptempo songs  for the reason you just mentioned.

I always counted this as sort-of the first (or one of the first) rap song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nULwgHsVqw

Rap goes much further back. In fact, here's an example where the style had already been co-opted by white folks  ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9EhGOs-tZE

Note that this anticipates the Beastie Boys by over 40 years!

At 0:42 he even goes UHHHH like Rick Ross!

[Myk Luhv]

I bet people who complain about over-production still love their precious Fleetwood Mac albums.

[Paulos]

I bet people who complain about over-production still love their precious Fleetwood Mac albums.

Having never listened to a Fleetwood Mac album in my life I really wouldn't know, Doc. Here's a pointless smiley in anticipation of when you say something I don't agree with 

[Myk Luhv]

I bet people who complain about over-production still love their precious Fleetwood Mac albums.

Having never listened to a Fleetwood Mac album in my life I really wouldn't know, Doc. Here's a pointless smiley in anticipation of when you say something I don't agree with 

You've lived a better life than most, my friend.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I bet people who complain about over-production still love their precious Fleetwood Mac albums.

good point. I don't care for the Mac though...

[I. Spaceman]

Fleetwood Mac are incredible, and their records are not overproduced at all. In fact, their records are spare in comparison to most stuff of that era. You won't hear strings, backing singers, any of that. Just lots of guitar and background vocal overdubs, and a straight keys/bass/drums backup. Anyone who is into the spare era of Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys should be able to get into Tusk immediately. In my Top 5 bands.

[SMiLE-addict]

No autotune on Fleetwood Mac, that's for sure. I don't even think they used synthesizers, except maybe sparingly here and there.

How could anyone say a song like Never Going Back Again is overproduced?

[SMiLE-addict]

BTW, Lindsey Buckingham is a big Brian Wilson fan.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I..don't like Stevie Nicks' voice, same goes for Lindsey Buckingham (although I like his voice a bit better) although I like some of their songs.

[?]

Modern music is better than it's ever been.  There's so much amazing stuff out there and so many different styles to choose from.  If you can't find something you really dig, it's because you gave up looking for it.

[MBE]

Well I hear good music being made now but it's mostly talented groups that haven't really hit big. There's better music in most Nashville bars then anything on the radio the last 30 years. I like the sound of the early fifties to early seventies and feel that's when the music scene was most creative. I don't like electronic music at all.

[Kurosawa]

Well I hear good music being made now but it's mostly talented groups that haven't really hit big. There's better music in most Nashville bars then anything on the radio the last 30 years. I like the sound of the early fifties to early seventies and feel that's when the music scene was most creative. I don't like electronic music at all.

I am with you to a large degree. Music hasn't felt the same to me since Lennon was murdered, to be honest. I feel it's kinda been all downhill from there.

I do like some electronic music and there really is a lot of interesting stuff out there but there isn't much that is popular that I find appealing. Adele is a great BES singer and that's about it amongst the big acts.

[Dunderhead]

I actually like some of the sounds and atmospheres rap producers are able to create, but the type of sentiment Dr. Voldelabra is expressing come off as more than a little histrionic: "I'm suspicious that it has nothing to do in some cases with a valuation of the sorts of people who most obviously listen to these types of music: poor people, black or white." Please.

Art isn't simply some honorific distinction, to say that something *is* art doesn't mean that you are therefore obliged to like it more than something that *isn't* art. Art is about development and control. I like Brian Wilson because he brought every element of a recording into the service of the total song. Music is an argument, it seeks to logically prove itself, to justify itself. It introduces material and develops that material to a meaningful conclusion. Any given rap song may sound cool, but you shouldn't take it personally if someone judges it be less substantial or artistic than something else.

I really like music from the 60s and 70s, and have admittedly tracked down a lot of stupid hard rock albums from the early 70s just because I wanted something that sounded cool. It's not like I'm trying to say those records are somehow better than other records, quite the contrary, I think they're mostly as stupid and empty as most rap songs are. 

[MBE]

Well I hear good music being made now but it's mostly talented groups that haven't really hit big. There's better music in most Nashville bars then anything on the radio the last 30 years. I like the sound of the early fifties to early seventies and feel that's when the music scene was most creative. I don't like electronic music at all.

I am with you to a large degree. Music hasn't felt the same to me since Lennon was murdered, to be honest. I feel it's kinda been all downhill from there.

I do like some electronic music and there really is a lot of interesting stuff out there but there isn't much that is popular that I find appealing. Adele is a great BES singer and that's about it amongst the big acts.

I don't know why but it was around the time of Lennon's murder maybe one or two years later that I felt popular music lost most of its feeling. The general music scene after the early seventies isn't to my taste, but for about 10 more years a lot of established bands made great music. All just my opinion of course.

[Steve Mayo]

modern music sucks. totally hate rap and hip-hop. can't stand even one bar of that crap. to each their own. there...i said it....

[SgtTimBob]

As someone who was born in the 80s, I can honestly say I have sourced more enjoyable music from the 60s than any other decade.

I also like a lot of current stuff, though I am not a fan of how compressed music is these days. There's practically no dynamic range in 90% of what you hear in the charts; a sad consequence of the loudness war. I think that alone goes a long way to making modern chart releases really hard to listen to; it tires out the ears when you listen to the same constant volume (this is exasperated by the fact that virtually every song that comes out is yet another four chord affair set to a hip hop beat.

However there are some mainstream artists that put out some really cool stuff. I really like Vampire Weekend, Gotye, Bon Iver and The Black Keys to name a handful. Also... we live in an era when more musicians/songwriters are able to record and produce themselves independently than ever before. The internet is an amazing thing when it comes to discovering music. Just go look on Soundcloud for 30 minutes and you're sure to discover some real gems that you never knew were out there.

It's a time of change really in that sense. The fact that there are so many independent songwriters and artists able to put their stuff out there, is really cool. The chart industry is still there for the casual listener, the people who like what they are told to like because their peers like it. But there's now this whole ocean of more niche music out there for the hardcore listener who wants to source out more subtlety. It's there... you just have to look for it.

[hypehat]

It's a time of change really in that sense. The fact that there are so many independent songwriters and artists able to put their stuff out there, is really cool. The chart industry is still there for the casual listener, the people who like what they are told to like because their peers like it. But there's now this whole ocean of more niche music out there for the hardcore listener who wants to source out more subtlety. It's there... you just have to look for it.

It really is, which is what makes our age wonderful - the barriers between artist and listener are being torn down, and new artists no longer have to rely on labels for exposure or distribution...

Of course, the same tack means you can do things like click through related videos on youtube and find incredibly rare or obscure soul, doo-wop, rockabilly, classical, psych, etc at your fingertips whereas before you would have had to luck out at record shops or whatever. You can read or hear about something and instantly access it. If you ever fancied listening to Gavin Bryars or The Chocolate Watchband or Lamonte Young, or The Jordinaires or modern hip-hop mixtapes from MCs across the entire globe, you can at a click of a button and with no risk to your bank account. It boggles the mind.

And what's interesting about that is, theoretically, a broader scope of influence is open to every artist with an internet connection, and more interesting music can come out of them - what goes in, comes out! It's really something.

[SgtTimBob]

And what's interesting about that is, theoretically, a broader scope of influence is open to every artist with an internet connection, and more interesting music can come out of them - what goes in, comes out! It's really something.

Indeed. It's a marvellous time for music once you wander off the beaten path and into the forest.

[Kurosawa]

Well I hear good music being made now but it's mostly talented groups that haven't really hit big. There's better music in most Nashville bars then anything on the radio the last 30 years. I like the sound of the early fifties to early seventies and feel that's when the music scene was most creative. I don't like electronic music at all.

I am with you to a large degree. Music hasn't felt the same to me since Lennon was murdered, to be honest. I feel it's kinda been all downhill from there.

I do like some electronic music and there really is a lot of interesting stuff out there but there isn't much that is popular that I find appealing. Adele is a great BES singer and that's about it amongst the big acts.

I don't know why but it was around the time of Lennon's murder maybe one or two years later that I felt popular music lost most of its feeling. The general music scene after the early seventies isn't to my taste, but for about 10 more years a lot of established bands made great music. All just my opinion of course.

I agree. His loss and how it happened was just a horrible thing on so many levels.